I Used To Be Vegan

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1:01For eight hour pumping moisture in tone enhancing shades. It's more than the shade. It's who's wearing it. You. New Maybelline Serum Lipstick. Maybe it's Maybelline. True fact. I used to be a total cardio junkie endurance trainer in vegan. Can you believe that? No one me now? Hey, I'm J.J. Virgin, PhD dropout. Sorry, mom. Turn four time, New York Times bestselling author. As a certified nutrition specialist, fitness hall of fame are and globally recognized leader in health. I'm driven to keep asking the tough questions and use my podcast to simplify the science of health into actionable strategies that help you thrive. I'd also love to hear your thoughts on the show. And here's the fun part. When you send me your review, I'll reply you using my on-demand virtual me. That's right. My team and I created a virtual J.J.

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4:02That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com slash virgin all lower case for free shipping quince.com slash virgin. Have fun. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Break through the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton cross-training tread plus powered by Peloton IQ. With real-time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training tread plus at onepeloton.com. So in my early 20s, I ran constantly. Long distance, hours every day, endurance, everything, taught aerobics classes, ran, and rode bikes. I was also a vegan and I really thought I was doing the healthiest thing possible. Now, if you're new here, hello, welcome. I'm glad you're here. I'm J.J. Virgin. I'm four-time, New York Times best selling author, triple board certified nutritionist

5:03and fitness hall of favor. And I focused on helping women build muscle first so they can burn off that and achieve metabolic balance. And today, I'm gonna walk you through what was happening to my body physiologically as an vegan endurance athlete. And why I no longer believe that endurance training is the answer for longevity. Of course, back then, I was in my 20s who was thinking about longevity. And what research really shows about muscle, metabolism, and aging powerfully. So let me take you through my phase here. I was graduated from UCLA and I was in a program at Cal State Northridge studying biomechanics. And then I went over to USC and I was studying exercise physiology, nutrition, and aging. And I really thought I got it. I knew what was going on. And I remember testing my body and we spent one semester just doing body composition testing prior to going like full vegan and really doubling down on endurance training. I was still lifting weights,

6:04but the majority of my time was endurance training. Prior to that in my earlier 20s, I was not a vegan. I was eating my protein and I was doing more resistance training and less cardio. And I remember getting my body fat tested then and I'm like a weirdly lean person. My body fat tends to range between 10 and 13%, which is extremely low for a woman. But it's just where I've always naturally been. So fast forward to here I met USC. I have full on gone into a vegan diet, realized at the time I was in LA and I was working training people out of the pretty consent or I was also training people out of the gold gym. So I should have known better. So I was watching what those bodybuilders were doing. But at the pretty consent or it was very plant-based, very low fat. And so that's the diet I was testing. But I always tend to take things to extremes. I've gotten better as I've gotten older. And so I was eating a very low fat vegan-based diet. It was kind of what was going on in LA at the time too. In my defense. But I remember getting my body fat tested

7:05because that's what we were doing at SC. That semester is all this body composition work. And my body fat came out at 25%. And I was like, what the heck is going on? So that was the first like a life-ball moment. I started to kind of go, huh. All of this plant-based diet and all of this heavy endurance training is not working now. I will tell you why I was jumping into so much endurance training. That wasn't so thoughtful as it was kind of a survival thing going on. I was going through a really awful divorce. I ran my way through this divorce. I just ran and ran and ran. I was escaping. And that was not helping whatsoever. All of this escape. And here's the reality. Chronic endurance training, as we know, can be catabolic. And note, I'm not saying not do any. Okay, we'll talk about that later. But chronic endurance training is catabolic. It breaks down tissue. And some of that pre-tissue, it's going to break down. And guess what? Muscle. Yes, you'll burn fat, but you'll also can break down muscle. Who are the best runners?

8:06It's funny. I have a friend who is a hit trainer, high-intensity interval trainer or trainer. And you used, you know, you look at a couch potato and it's true. Couch potato and a long-distance runner tend to have the same amount of muscle mass. They'll have different amounts of body fat for sure, but they'll have about the same amount of muscle mass. If you're an endurance athlete, you're better with not having a lot of muscle mass. More to move around. There was actually a review in sports medicine that discussed how prolonged endurance exercise increases catabolic hormone signaling when recovery and protein intake are insufficient. This was the other thing going on with me. And that chronic endurance training increases cortisol levels, especially when it's paired with inadequate fueling. So here I was, under eating, stressed out already, riding my way through a divorce and doing over cardio. And I remember seeing at the time a study that showed the people who were trying to maintain their weight with cardio alone, the minute they stopped, they started gaining weight back. So then I was like, oh no, I'm definitely not stopping. And again, the key point of this research review view

9:07was that longer duration, higher volume endurance exercise increased stress hormones, including cortisol, and that this cortisol would rise with this prolonged exercise and then tend to stay higher if the body wasn't recovered or the body was under fueled. So remember, it's not exercise promoting cortisol in the moment that's the problem. It's the chronic cortisol that creates the problem. And that's why I'm more of a fan of hit training. Now, when you have enough calories, when you have enough carbohydrates, when you're giving yourself enough recovery time, when you have enough protein, then you can blunt that stress response. It doesn't become chronic. It's just that acute that you want and then comes back down. But if you're doing a lot of endurance volume without the recovery and without the fuel, then you put yourself into a problem. And what happens when you've elevated chronic cortisol? Well, you're going to break down muscle, accumulate more visceral adipose tissue. And that was me. Like, if you can imagine, because if you know me, I'm like, you know, muscle first, right?

10:09But back then, I'm glad I did the science experiment and I'm glad that we tested body composition. And I had that wake up call because it really was like, I had to look at every single thing because here I was doing all the running, but I also was a vegan. And I was a pure vegan and low fat vegan, so high carb. And I was not getting the balance of essential amino acids that I needed. Now, here's the thing. Like, they've been to have studies comparing plant-based and omnivore athletes. And you can do this as a vegan if you are really, really mindful about what you need in terms of your amino acids so that you're getting that balance. So you have what you need to trigger muscle protein since this and you don't compromise it. In fact, there was a randomized control study on resistance trading in the journal of nutrition that looked at healthy young adults and did a comparison on a high protein vegan diet versus an omnivore diet. And what they did was they matched the protein intake. But here's the thing. There's this thing called the diet score, the digestible, indispensable,

11:09amino acid score. And even if you match the protein, you're not gonna have the same amino acid balance between a vegan and an omnivore diet. And if you're gonna go vegan, you're gonna need to really be mindful of the amino acid balance. What they did in this study was they looked at daily muscle protein synthesis. They looked at lean mass. They looked at muscle size and they looked at muscle strength. So they're looking at that quality there. And what they found was when protein intake sufficient that both diets supported muscle protein synthesis and muscle gain. But you got to really dial that in. So that's what I want to emphasize here. And I wasn't doing that. I was not focused on the quality and the balance of those amino acids. So I was suffering. And I literally just couldn't eat enough. I remember always feeling like bloated. It's really hard to get enough when you're burning that many calories. It's kind of crazy. There was also a review that looked at higher protein athlete requirements. And it was published in the Applied Physiology Nutrition and Metabolism Journal.

12:10And they were looking at endurance and resistance trained athletes comparing them to sedentary adults. And then looking at what protein intake was needed to support performance, support recovery, support holding onto or building muscle mass. And of course, this is not going to be much of a newsflash. After each require more protein. Then the general RDA. 0.8 grams per kilogram per day now. Thankfully, I think we're moving away from that lame RDA. But basically when you're really focusing on improving body composition, higher protein intake's better preservation of lean mass and greater fat loss, especially if you're restricting energy. In fact, I've seen some information that suggests that we need more essential amino acids when we're restricting energy, not less. And of course, it's not just the protein itself. It's really the balance of those essential amino acids. And that becomes even more important as you restrict calories or as you increase your training. So that can help protect your muscle

13:11and can help protect your metabolic rate. And remember, as we age, we also need more, not less. So what happened with me? Well, I talked about that body comp that woke me up. What should have woke me up even more was my weight didn't change that much. I think it changed by about 10 pounds. What changed was I lost muscle and put on fat. Now, remember what happens when you lose muscle? You also drop your metabolic rate, right? And there was a study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that showed that lean mass is one of the strongest predictors of resting energy expenditure. It is the biggest modifiable thing that you can do to change your resting metabolic rate. So the last thing you want to do is lose muscle, especially if you're 40 plus, by the way, like I was luckily in my 20s, I got it back. But boy, it gets harder and harder as we go, even though you can put on muscle at any age, you don't want to lose it. And what they found in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition with 22 young males, they looked before and after 100 days of overfeeding and they found that resting metabolic rate correlated

14:12with lean mass and skeletal muscle mass, not really fat mass. So that skeletal muscle was really this best independent predictor of resting metabolic rate. What's the takeaway for you here? Don't lose your muscle mass. Put on more muscle mass. That's why I take a muscle first approach to all of this. Because if you have more muscle, that's where you're gonna be able to burn fat. That's where you're gonna have a better resting metabolic rate. And that's how you're gonna age powerfully. When you have less muscle, you have a lower metabolic rate at rest. And that's why I started to gain weight as I was losing muscle, eating the same, gaining body fat. And you know, it's obvious what's gonna happen. Now, let's talk about the cortisol side of it. Because not only was I stressed out and running to try to manage my stress, but I was doing these long. So I was replacing my emotional mental stress with physical stress. And we know that long duration endurance sessions can elevate cortisol for long periods, right? I'm not looking at the acute cortisol elevation. I'm looking at what happens chronically.

15:13Because it's the chronicle that can increase that visceral adipose tissue, you know, the deep belly fat and also impair insulin sensitivity. And then you put that together with not having enough protein overall, not having enough balance of your amino acids. Too much training, not enough calories and poor recovery. And you have a recipe for metabolic disaster. That is a total muscle loss cocktail. If you want to design a study for people to lose muscle, there it is. And again, you lose muscle. You're resting metabolic rate goes down and your insulin sensitivity drops. Remember, and this was a review in frontiers in bioscience showing that skeletal muscle is the primary site for glucose disposal in the body. That's why I say that muscle is your sugar sponge. It's going to help you soak up that sugar and store it away as glycogen combining glucose with water so that you have it there when you need it to create energy when your muscles contract. So remember, when your muscles contract,

16:13they are going to send out all of these important signals and they can also use glycogen, especially when you've got a higher level of activity. But the big important thing here is that skeletal muscle is that place where you have insulin-stimulated glucose uptake, which is important because if you don't have enough muscle or the muscle you do have is all full, then guess what? You're going to turn that carbohydrate into fat and you're going to store it where you don't want to. So how does this happen? So that sugar transport into the muscle depends on insulin signaling and something else called glute-for-translocation. But it also can happen just by muscle contractions, which means if you're not contracting your muscles, you know, guess what? You're not doing. You are not then providing a place for carbohydrates to go. So you do not want to compromise your muscle mass. You do not want to be sedentary because then you have glucose disposal becoming less efficient, insulin tends to declining and then you start to get those blood sugar irregularities.

17:13By the way, insulin resistance comes first and then the glucose problems come. So what was happening to me? I was telling my body, get less efficient at being insulin sensitive, get better at storing fat, worse at burning it off, right? And that is no good. And, you know, while you won't see your weight change as much, you will see your body composition shift dramatically. Thankfully, I tested it because what I was doing was basically creating survival physiology, which is the complete opposite of a thriving physiology. So that wake up call of doing that body composition test with all my peers, my student peers sitting around looking at going, oh my gosh, you're 25% body fat. I was like, holy smokes, which 25% body fat can be a healthy body fat for a woman, but I was a lean athlete. So I made a shift. I took that long distance cardio. I kept one day a week because I loved roller blade or bike for long distances or hike. But the two days a week I put in high intensity interval training. What is high intensity interval training?

18:15I think now most people know what it is. It's where you go hard for a short, period of time, recover actively and go back and forth. And there's a variety of different ways to do it. I've done videos on this, which we'll link to. But I did this two days a week. Why? Because high intensity interval training has been shown to stimulate mitochondrial biogenesis. You make new mitochondria and it also improves insulin sensitivity with far less of time, oxidative stress or stress load. In fact, a landmark study published in the journal physiology showed that short sprint intervals significantly increased mitochondrial capacity similar to traditional endurance training. But in a fraction of the time and why don't people exercise? It's the time, excuse. But what if you could do in two days a week? You could spend, let's say, 20 minutes, even 10 minutes and make a major difference. And this is really freed me up to when I'm busy. I make sure I'm getting in my non-exercise activity thermogenesis all throughout the day by just moving more. But then if I'm really busy,

19:15I can get in some short bursts throughout the day. That is my 10 minutes to win it challenge that I have people go through where we just do short bursts all throughout the day. Little high intensity interval bursts. When you're doing high intensity interval training, let's say you decide to do two days a week of 20 minutes. Maybe you do one minute hard, one minute easy recover and repeat that 10 times. Or you do a four minutes hard, three minutes recover, four minutes hard, three minutes recover and you do that four times. There's a variety of different types you can do out there any free from the Norwegian four by four, the one to one ratio one, the Wingate training, which is 30 seconds all out, three and a half minutes recover. There's a variety of ways to do this. And I like to do a variety of different ones so that my body doesn't adapt. And you will raise a little bit of cortisol as you do it. But here's the thing, that's good. Your body learns how to handle that stress and recover. So it actually causes a better cortisol profile overall. Because you got to raise your cortisol in the morning or you're not getting out of bed, right? But you want your cortisol to come up at the right times and then come back down.

20:16Hit stimulates growth hormone, supports anabolic signaling without causing that chronic cortisol that you do not want. It also improves your chronic cortisol balance. So I made resistance training my foundation. It always was there, but I was kind of stealing from it because of so much focus on the catabolic cardio and multiple studies including a 2022 systematic review and meta analysis in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine show that resistance training is independently associated with reduced all-cause mortality. In fact, if I was going to do one thing, it would be number one, improve your non-exercise activity thermogenesis, move more all throughout the day. Incorporate as much movement into your day as you possibly can. Then I would add in resistance training because check this out. Any resistance training versus none, lower risk of all-cause mortality. This was just any resistance training, 15%. Cardiovascular mortality by 19%. Cancer mortality by 14%. But if you can get yourself to more like 30 minutes twice a week, that is going to be amazing in it.

21:18That's not much. Remember muscles protective. It regulates glucose. It creates that sugar sponge. It improves your metabolic flexibility. It supports better bone mineral density, which gives you more independence. And you're not going to get that from endurance training. You get that from resistance training. So let me tell you what my training program looks like now. Lots of movement all throughout the day. 10,000 steps is my goal each day. 8,000 is my bare minimum. And if I can get it up more like 12, 15,000 even better. I like to hit each body part at least twice a week. Sometimes I'll go for three. I do usually splits, but today I did all of my body parts. I did my push, my pull, and my hinge. I do two days a week of high-intensity interval training and I do one day a week of a longer session. I eat animal protein first at every meal. I make sure I get in between 120 and 150 grams of protein a day. I split it between my meals, but I really emphasize my morning and evening. Remember, as we age, we need more, not less protein because of anabolic resistance. In fact, there was a study in the Journal of Gerontology

22:21that showed that looked at older versus younger men. The older men, 70s, the younger men were in their 20s. And they looked at single meal protein doses. And then they looked at muscle protein synthesis. And what they found was that older dudes had a blunted muscle protein synthesis response to the lower protein doses and required higher relative per meal intake to achieve that max muscle protein stimulus as compared to the younger guys. No great surprise there. By the way, this is why I think one of the most underutilized tools that is so, so, so important is the use of essential amino acids to the rescue. So I think that for pretty much most women over 40 unless you're really, really good about getting all your protein in, I view essential amino acids. I use something called amino acid power by regnet. Well, unless I formulated it based on the literature from the NIH about sarcopenia and the best amino acid balance. And what I view them as

23:21is a muscle insurance policy. If you are eating a skimpy protein meal, have a scoop of my essential aminos. If you are not eating maybe like you ate lunch and you're not gonna have dinner, then have two scoops. If you are not eating breakfast in the morning and you wanna go for a workout, have two scoops. Super important to help you maintain and build muscle. It's gotta do the work. It's 75% doing the work, but you need to have to fuel the substrate too. There is an American Journal of Medicine study that showed that lower muscle mass is directly correlative with higher mortality risk. So we gotta do everything we possibly can to support that muscle mass. More muscle, longer life, better life, higher quality life. It's not just living longer, it's living longer, better. Remember, we don't need smaller bodies. It's not about weighing less. It's about improving what that weight is made up of and improving quality muscle. We need stronger bodies as we age. And I'm not saying you should never run. I do one long cardio session a week.

24:21What I'm saying is you need to understand the signals you're sending to your body. When I was running long distance constantly and under eating protein, being that vegan, I was telling my body to break down and to shrink. And that's exactly what happened. I lost muscle, I gained fat, my metabolism slowed down, and thankfully I had a humiliating body composition test in front of my friends. And that was my wake up call. And I'm so grateful to that. And that is when I made the big shift to my muscle first philosophy and making sure I was getting in that protein and using that high intensely burst training instead of chronic cardio. And everything shifted. My body composition improved, my energy improved, my stress levels improved, my mood improved. So reality is, if you want to age powerfully and I'm sure you do, if you're here, then muscle has got to be the priority. And if you want more science back strategies on how to build that muscle, protect your metabolism, enhance it, let's say, and stay strong and powerful as you age. Make sure you subscribe to this channel

25:22because I'm dropping all sorts of wisdom on that. Be sure to join me next time for more tools, tips, and techniques you can use to look and feel your best and be built to last. Also, I'd love to connect with you and hear your thoughts on the podcast. Here's how. First, subscribe to the podcast and leave an honest review. Second, take a screenshot of your review. And third, text it to 813-565-2627. That's 813-565-2627. When you do, I'll reply using my brand new virtual JJ. It's my on-demand virtual self, built from my books, talks, and years of experience so I can interact with you directly. You'll make my day and I can't wait to hear from you. Thanks for tuning in and I'll catch you on the next episode.

26:25Hey, JJ here and just a reminder that the Well Beyond 40 podcast offers health, wellness, fitness, and nutritional information. That's designed for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should not rely on this information as a substitute for, nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your health, you should always consult with a physician or other healthcare professional. Make sure that you do not disregard avoid or delay obtaining medical or health-related advice from your healthcare professional because of something you may have heard on the show or read in our show notes. The use of any information provided on the show is solely at your own risk. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in. With a full lineup of non-alcoholic beer styles, you can enjoy bold flavors all game-long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stuck the fridge for tip-off with a variety of non-alcoholic craft styles

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