I Was A Police Officer Secretly Addicted To Meth On The Job

0:00You have Adderall that put you here and meth that put you here, but I was never, I was never off the wall bouncing. I was just, I was just good. It was, it was a balanced feeling that Bob, I want to welcome you. Thank you so much for coming on here from New Jersey. Thanks for having me. You have course, man. You are sober, roughly, I think you said January of 2025. December 24th. December 23. Got it. Is last time I used to a little over to about two and a half years. Yeah. Wow. Congratulations, man. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Yeah. So you have a very interesting story. You were a police officer. Yes. Are you originally from New Jersey from New Jersey? Yeah. Born and raised in a town, right outside of Philadelphia, watching township live there. Pretty much my whole life. And then got hired in Hamilton around 2007. By 2010, I moved to Hamilton because they're all from me, a, a canine.

1:04Oh, wow. So I, that's when I moved to Hamilton 2010 and it's been here ever since. Got it. Okay. Early childhood. What was, what was early childhood like? Good. I'm dad, two older sisters, younger brother. But my dad was a law enforcement officer, which got me into the field, of course. Never, it never, any family issue, any major issues. But I always wanted to be a cop because I saw how my dad was. And I thought I was fascinated by it, fascinated. So that was always my dream. I never wanted to do anything else except to be a cop because of just singing how he was. And not a, not a robo cop, just people that went up to him and thanked him and he, he, he, he helped people, you know, and you great cop. And right then in there, I knew I was like, I want to, I want to do the job so bad. Yeah. Did you have any siblings? Yeah, two young, two older sisters and a younger brother. Okay. So they were for you. Yeah. How are you guys? Rampunks just a little bit.

2:05Yeah. We were tight. My sister is, they're, they're close in age or they're tight. And then me and my brother, we were tight throughout our whole childhood. And then once you start moving out, you're having kids, you kind of, you don't see each other as much. And it's life. It is what it is. Yeah. I mean, it's nothing, nothing against them. It's just you get so busy and wrapped up in your own world that you really don't have time for anything else. The exception of work, you know, family. Yeah. Yeah. I can't. Would you play sports growing up? Yeah. They baseball my whole life. Funny story. Yeah. I was good. I was good. I'd be tell, I made the freshman team in Washington Township. My sophomore year, I was in eligible because of my grades. I was a student. And that was my downfall of sports. That crossed me. And ever since then, I was like, I'm done. That's why I preach so hard to my kids that you got to do well in school.

3:07You know, because I, when my sophomore year, I was getting letters from different colleges of North Jersey about playing baseball. This is great. But once I found out I was ineligible because of my grades and my sophomore year. Forget it. That crossed me. Yeah. And I gave up and I shouldn't have given up, but I did. That's why we preach so hard to our kids. Like, you got to do well in school at the very least. And then, you know, if you don't go to college, you know, go to a trade school, just do well in school for the first 12 years. Yeah. No. So. So, okay. Do you end up graduating high school on time? Yeah. You get your grades and check. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Yeah, barely. Just enough to get by. Same. So now I went to, uh, went to school, went to, uh, local college came in Gloucester County College. Did that for about a year and a half got accepted into the police academy in, let me see about this for a second. I went into the police academy, March of 20.

4:09I'm sorry, March of 2003. Did that. Got hired. And February 2004. At a local college, it's called Stockton College police department. So I was, you know what? Screw it. I'll take, I'll take the job. Just get my foot in the door. You know what I mean? Did that, uh, got hired and then ended up in Hamilton, September of 2007. Got it. Okay. So you did the college thing for like four years. Not a couple of years, but then I, once I got accepted into the police academy, I was a guy. I'm, I'm done with school. Let's go. Yeah. So I was at a police point before you became, you went into the police academy in 2003. Were you drinking? Were you doing drugs, casually drinking? What was that like, casually drinking? Yeah. But just a kid being a kid. I mean, so it was casual, but it was like all the time. And up until, you know, I, I grabbed, I'm talking to the police academy, but yeah, I was, I was drinking a lot. It was just kids being kids. Now I, I feel, I care less about a drink.

5:12I don't want to be here. I don't want, I don't want anything. But I think it was just that face, you know, just being a kid and never, never mess with drugs, never smoked marijuana, never did any, probably because the fear of my dad being a cop. Yeah. It was my dad. You know, there was one specific time where he was working the three to 11 shift and he goes, don't get any trouble. I'm working the night. Well, my thought I was cool because some girl was having a party. It was a van der Holyfield fight. I can, I can buy beer. I'm working at a bakery. The next door, the guy's like, yeah, come in. Yeah, if you want alcohol, 18 or 19 years old, I'm like, yeah, sure. You go by the beer and there was a van out front and it was ABC alcohol beverage control. And they pull me over and my dad was working. And he. It was the word. He for a month. He didn't talk to me. Put me through the whole system, a whole juvenile system of. I had to go there. I had to write an essay. I had to do the whole nine. So that, yeah, that was that was rough.

6:12We, so your dad let you get in trouble. No. Yeah. Well, go through the consequences. Yeah. He was working that night. He was a sergeant and he goes, I'm working like, don't get in trouble. Yeah. I was sure as shit trying to be cool. You know, I can buy beer and he pulls up to that scene and he goes, you're fucked. And he put me through it. Wow. He could have easily got me out of it. I did. I went to juvenile court. What juvenile court is kind of, I mean, it's, it's so basic. But I had to write an essay and all that shit. Yeah. Respect to your dad. Yeah. Respect to your dad for letting you go through and, and the consequences. I mean, you still became an addict. But that is so safe. Yeah. But also that speaks to addiction doesn't discriminate. Correct. Right. So like, I overanalyze how I'm parenting my daughter sometimes. And it doesn't matter sometimes. And the best thing is just to support. Yeah. It's scary thing because you don't want your kids to do this or do that. But you just don't know. You know, you don't know.

7:12It's, it's, uh, it's scary. Yep. And like, I look at me all the reason why I didn't get into like the drugs at that time was, because my dad was a cop and I was, I was afraid. I'm like, if my dad was never a cop, what I started doing drugs early. Who knows? You know. Okay. So you now in 2007 start that new job as a police officer. Well, I'm sorry. What town was it again? Hamilton. Hamilton. Okay. About 20 minutes outside of the city. Okay. So talk a little bit about you're on the job. You go. For the first time. What, what was that like? One thing I've learned in my own recovery is that you can't do this alone. And you don't have to. I know that firsthand. I went through inpatient treatment at caring treatment centers. And it changed the course of my life. That's why I am proud to announce that I've partnered with Karen. For nearly 70 years, they've helped people and families not just break free from addiction, but actually heal and transform their lives.

8:13They're in network with all major insurance providers. And same day admission is available. So if you or someone you love is struggling, don't wait. Paul Karen at 855352 0103. That's 855352 0103. Helps starts with taking that first step. I'm from a college to now. It's down so it was a lot different. It was it was fun. I learned a lot, but around. I think it was around 2016 or 17 when New Jersey made sports betting legal. You have a casino on your phone. It's the worst thing. Okay. So we'll start it out as a little gamble in here and there. Turn into complete chaos. Gambling so I mean. It was it was so bad that I would win.

9:15This is like just so shitty to say, but I would win thousands of dollars on sports games. Okay. I'm up six down six thousand that night. Now I'm going to play slots. And yeah, that's six grain. I'm going to turn into 12 and I'm going to turn 24. Every single night that I did that and that was probably 10 times over. Went to zero every single night. I'm going I'm gambling next to my wife. I'm so tough because every time I want to tell her this and can you take this money and put it in our account one time. There was one time where I was up a shit ton of money. I put it like a thousand dollars back into our account. Every other time I'm like just wake her up just tell her you know tell her to stop it. That had to go to zero every single time. That's rough. Yeah. It's rough to even even talk about now. It was so long ago, but like. That's the addict. And you get that sick feeling of it going to zero. And then the next day I you do all over again.

10:16And I was I was winning sports. And I was. But once I went to the casino side of it and thinking I can double triple quadruple. No. Yeah. Even though I even know I knew I was letting it go to zero. It didn't matter. It was never enough. I had a gambling stand as well. And I would be up you know eight ten K. And I would always tell myself if I make it past five thousand dollars, I'm going to stop. Yep. And I'm going to cash the money out. But once I hit ten, it's like twenty K would be nice. Yep. Thirty K would be nice. Fifty K would change my life. Yep. That's what I would tell myself. And then I started to read. Well, I didn't know in the moment way after the fact as an addict gambling in the same goes for drugs drinking. It's never enough. And it was almost like I had to lose it to get rid of the compulsion for that day. Right. I would actually go into debt. I wouldn't even bring it down to zero. I would go up ten K.

11:16And then I'd be in debt fifteen. Okay. By the end of the night or that next day, I couldn't hold on to it. Right. It was never like the average person who doesn't have an addiction, addictive personality. They can get my dad. He goes to the casino. I was like, you know, the win like $300 and walk away. I'm like, that is so lame. That's the lame is shit. I've ever heard of. That's all I wanted. I hate to even bring this up. There was guys that I used to work with that. They'd be happy that they just placed a bet and they just won fifty dollars. I'm like, fuck. What's so we've. I'm like, why I think that way? But it's just the way we think. Yeah. And. Two, you know, to make matters worse. One. Once I, uh, I once I got caught by my wife. I got as my first day of what's called field training officer school. I was training to train other officers, so to speak. So my wife looked on their account and it was.

12:16There was negative pretty much. She was trying to catch a check and she couldn't. Oh, she calls me and. The feeling that I had was just the downward. Oh my God. So fuck. So in 2016 is when you really discovered online gambling or when they made it. Yeah, yeah. I think it was 16. Okay. Roughly. Yeah. How long after until she caught you and that you got that phone call? It was probably a year, year and a half. But at first, when they first legalize it, it was just recreational. It was no big deal. Mm-hmm. But for me, and like most of us, it doesn't turn out. It's just no big deal anymore. Mm-hmm. You know, especially once you start winning. And like you said, oh, I can turn this into this, this into this. And as much as we say that, it never works out that way. Never. That's why I do. I do. And me the people that I can just win a few dollars and just walk away. I do because I physically, I physically can't. Now, after that, after she caught me, I, you know, I stopped.

13:21She lost it. Actually, so. But she ended up doing some research and realizing how she shit. She's a big fucking deal. And contacted this guy. I don't forget his, I forget his real name, but it was an older gentleman. It was CP from Philadelphia, who at one point, he was a high end attorney. But he got caught up in the whole gambling shit. And he got jammed up, he ended up turning his thing into counseling and all that stuff. So that's where I got help. Originally, once I got caught, I was going to the gambling meetings and all that. And for the first week, I'm driving to the game on meetings, still betting. So gambling. You know, I mean, and then after like a week or two, I'm like, I can't do this anymore. So I ended up getting hooked up with this, with this guy, CP. And he just, he made, he made everything so comfortable. He was so what you fucking lost this. He did this. Come on, move on. Didn't make a big deal out of anything. You know, I mean, his very, was very okay with, you know,

14:23what I did, but wasn't, wasn't sugarcoded anything. But at the same time, I was like, just move on from it. It is what it is, you know what I mean? So he helped, he helped me with that. So once I got clean from that, we, we'll go to Langsteady. So, so gamble. I won't even, it doesn't faze me. I'm a weird addict. Like once I stop, I stop. Like it doesn't even faze me anymore. Like we've gone to Langsteady, walk through the, you know, the casino floors. Or she's gambled on a slot machine, nothing. I'm not like, oh man, I'm Jones. I just don't care. You're talking about present day. Yeah. Well, okay. That's great. I strongly suggest to the viewers and the listeners. If you're newly, let's just call it. Yeah. Yeah. Right or even with alcohol, don't go to a bar immediately. Like give it some time. Like now today with eight and a half years sober, you mean you have two and a half years sober from everything. I can go, like I can meet someone at a bar and all that.

15:24I mean, I don't hang out there until three in the morning, but I'll go into those places. Because you're also working a program. You're in a much different space now. But I get it. I also used to be able to do that. I had gambling issues, but then I would start using pills or drinking. And then I can switch my addiction where I'm like, I don't even want to gamble anymore because I'm using these pills. That was my solution. So I was always looking for another solution, whether it's gambling drugs or alcohol. So, okay. So she catches you. And you know what? Kudos to your wife. Kudos to your wife for doing the research. For reaching out to that guy. And then that guy intervening. And what it sounds like he did was big deal move on. A big thing that keeps us out is the guilt and the shame, the destruction we've done, the money we've lost, the people we've heard. And I had 10 years where I was trying to get sober. I couldn't get sober.

16:24I was trying to get sober. And I just kept hitting my head up against the wall. And a lot of it was guilt and shame. I kept thinking about all of the destruction I had done. And I'm like, fuck this. I'm just going to go continue to use. And it was until I kept it within the day. And then I put 90 days together, then six months and a year. Then I started to amend those relationships. And I started to get myself financially out of a hole. The guilt and shame is a huge one for us. And it sounds like he kind of helped you with that. Yeah. So he moved me past that real quick. And unfortunately, I'm cool. He passed away. Oh, yeah. But I carried a lot with it. Again, never went about the game. I never went online. Just, yeah, I just moved past it. I was fine with it up until, you know, I started getting involved with other things down the road. Okay. So how do you, how do you start getting involved in other things and roughly give us the year.

17:25Timeline. So around. I think it was around 2000. It might have been 2020. There was a whole out of all thing that all out of all shortage. I was prescribed it. Okay. I do have an 80 D so it does balance me out. But there was a shortage. And around 22. Is when somebody asked me if I wanted to try it. I'm good. I was like, we could do a couple of weeks later. He asked me, you got to try what? Math. Okay. So you were prescribed. I prescribed Adderall. And then there was the shortage. Yeah. Like it was like a early COVID, maybe 21, 22. Okay. You couldn't get your meds. Yeah. And then someone had reached out to you and said, Hey, why don't you try that. And when you first asked me, I'm like, hell no, this is like, it's math.

18:26Yeah. Thinking that it's like the dirtiest drug in the world. I asked me again. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, all right. Well, I'll just, I'll just eat it. I'll swallow it. And you have Adderall that put you here and meth that put you here. But I was never, I was never off the wall bouncing. I was just, I was just good. It was, it was a balanced feeling that, you know, people that might be watching. And I think, yeah, okay. No, like I was like, just balance. I was good. Everything was good. I was productive. It was, again, it was like Adderall on steroids. But I didn't go, Abe shit, like crazy with it. Again, wasn't going up all night doing on benders. I would just do it. And I just be, I'd be good. And that, that went on for about a year and a half, I think. You're going to have two years. And you're working too. Yeah. And we won't get into specifics because there are some stuff.

19:28Some things still going on with it. So we don't need to go into specifics. Although the audience probably wants me to. Yeah. But you're on the job and you're okay. There'll be a part two down the road. Okay. Yeah. So, um, Yeah, never did it like on the job per se, but, um, I knew. I knew I was going to get quiet. You don't stop though. But I knew it. Eventually, the ball is going to drop. And just like, as a cop, when you know a criminal is end up, you know, keep doing what you're doing. You're going to end up getting quiet. It's the same deal. You just didn't, you didn't stop. And. The first responders. You deal with a lot of issues that most people will never see. Okay. You have normal, normal civilian that will see about. Five to seven traumatic experiences in a lifetime. Well, cops will see about seven to eight hundred. So you take that into consideration.

20:29And a lot of cops, what they do is they mask how they feel. They'll go home. They'll, they'll, they'll drink alcohol or now the big thing now, especially injuries, he's like smoking weed. There'll. A lot of us will get involved in that and, and mask your feelings. Mask how you actually feel because. You can't, you can't show emotion because you're a cop. You know, everything you were taught ever since I was, I started to keep your mouse going to the next call. Don't, don't. Don't show emotion. That's what a lot of first responders do now. To this day. That's why. I started my project because I want to give this a voice to people that it's okay to speak up. You know what I mean? It's okay if you have problems because. If you don't speak up, you're going to end up getting jammed up or unfortunately there's the suicide rate is so high with, with first responders. You know, so. Well, I commend you for speaking out about it because.

21:30You, you look, you were, you were using. You were on the job, obviously, as a first responder, you're not supposed to be using. But with addicts, alcoholics, if you have the bug of addiction, whatever it may be, on top of those traumatic experiences that you guys, you have, it's drugs, alcohol, gambling, those are our solution to deal with emotion, to deal with the chaos that goes on in our head. I have ADHD. So I know the chaos of, you know, what goes on in our brain on a daily basis. And for us to be able to, it's tough for us to sit with ourselves. If you're not doing the work on yourself, which, you know, prior, you now have been opened up to this whole world the last two and a half years where, you know, and we'll get into it. I'm sure you've been doing the work on yourself, whether it's therapy, whether it's 12-stat, whether it's,

22:33there's an abundance of options out there now. But I, for first responders, you said six or seven or 800 traumatic experiences that you guys experience through your, your time on the force. This is wild. I was driving two weeks ago and a car. I saw two cars hit. We were going 85 miles an hour and this car pinballed, it went into the median and then it just turned and went across traffic on 95. And there was a dip and then into the woods. It flew off the highway and went into the woods. And I pulled my car over. I saw the whole thing. And I pulled my car over. I called 911 and then I got out. There was another guy who stopped too. And him and I looked at one another and we were like, we should probably just go make sure like they're okay. This looks really bad. So we go over what the guy jumps out of the driver's seat. He was fine and he had a dog and he was in shock. And I'm like, he wasn't saying anything. He was just staring at us.

23:33And I'm like, dude, are you okay? And he wasn't saying anything. I'm like, buddy, are you okay? And he's like, because there anyone else in that car, he's like, oh my god. So now me walking up to this car, the fear that I had looking into a total car that just barreled into the forest and hit like three trees. The thing was total. I was smoking, but obviously you got to get the girl out. Now, the point being here is you guys do this on a daily basis. The fire truck showed up. The police officer showed up. And I pulled one of the, I was talking to one of the firemen. My dude, I don't know how you guys do this on a daily basis. The fear that I just experienced walking up to that car, not knowing what you're going to see. Right. Like a dismembered body. You just never know. Someone decapitated. Right. And that's where not even halfway through my career, I noticed you lose that feeling. It becomes normal.

24:34And it shouldn't be. It becomes normal. But then you also, again, you also, you don't talk about it. You mask it. And there's too many times when we should have, if there was a traumatic experience, we should have been called a debriefing pretty much after the experience. You know, you have a counselor that comes in. Anyone have any questions? Anyone have any any issue? I mean, back in the day, like, you didn't have any debriefings. It was like shut up, go on to the next call. Now, there's a lot of departments that will do debriefings to. They want the officers to speak up because what we see isn't normal. And again, like, not even halfway through my career, I noticed I'm like, well, I don't even feel thinking anymore. I've seen trained suicides. I've seen people with people with suicides with rifles. And I've seen the worst. And I'll never forget this one training accident, one trained suicide. I looked around like, I don't even feel anything.

25:35It got to me for a minute, but then I just moved on from it. Down to road, if I realize, and like, I probably should have talked to somebody about it. Because again, you see, you're against 7, 800 tried experiences in your career. That's a lot. You know what I mean? And if you don't talk about your feelings, just, just mask it was something. And there's a lot of cops out there that end up going home and to them, it's okay to drink alcohol because it's legal. And nobody deal. But you're not, you're not fixing your problem. It's just, it's a band-aid. You know what I mean? That's why with what I was, what I'm doing now with my behind the badge project, which I just want the first responders to speak up. Whatever you say, just speak up. There's plenty of people to talk to. There's support systems or peer counselors, you know, speak up. Because if you don't, you will, you will turn into, you know, you will turn to alcohol and the road.

26:35You will. There's so many, there's so many cops out there that have turned to alcohol. And I'm sure there's a lot that wants to be up, that have turned to drugs, you know what I mean? And it shouldn't have to be that way. Well, you guys are in a very compromising situation because if you put your hand up and say, listen, I, let's say 2022, you had done meth, let's say for three months. And you put your hand up and you said, you know what? Hey, boss, this is what's going on. I was on Adderall. I mean, that makes sense. You were, you were taking it from a doctor prescribed it. And then you couldn't get it, right? So your brain is looking for a solution. Meth is Adderall times probably 100, but it's within the same family, whatever. Yeah, is that a poor decision if you make you add it? Of course. I get it. You're looking for relief from the chaos that's going on in your head. I went through the same chaos. I used to wake up every morning and I needed drugs to just come the brain.

27:39That's the obsessive compulsivity. And my solution was drugs. So you were looking for a solution you found it. But if you put your hand up three months into doing meth and you go to your boss, you're going to lose your job. That's, that's the funny thing. So many of us want to speak up Adderall for you of the consequences. I wanted to speak up. Yeah, of course. But I also was afraid of how they were going to perceive me or what the next step was going to be. And talking to a lot of first responders now of what I'm doing. And they're, you know, they, they privately message me and they want to speak up. And they know that there might be a stigma or this guy might say this or this guy might say, listen. I worked, I had a boss when I ran to the detective bureau. I had a boss who would verbally say all the time. Drug addiction isn't, isn't real bullshit. If you want to stop, you want to stop.

28:40So I'm going through my shit. How am I supposed to go to you when you, when you already think this way? Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah. I was like, fuck me. And like, how am I going to go to this guy? When this guy numerous times would tell me or tell whoever is in the room at the time. So drug addiction is bullshit. If you want to stop, you want to stop. And man, the feeling I would get when he would say that, you have no clue, you have no clue. If it was that easy, we won't be here right now talking about, you know, our issues. You know, but unfortunately, you know, so trying to go to somebody like that. I was like, I can't, you know, I mean, you go to him. Your career's over. You have two kids at home. You're married. Your bills. I'm sure are very real. Yep. And you lose everything just to get help. It's dude, I get it. I get it. That, I mean, it's not comparable, but in corporate America, I was so scared to go to HR, which is a lot more comfortable than being a police officer.

29:41And I wasn't even willing to do that. Right. It was when everyone was like, dude, we know you're used like my co-workers like pro. You were just running around the office for like three hours. And now you're sleeping at your desk and I'm like, fuck, I'm going to lose my job. I better go to HR and get ahead of it before I get fired. So I think my boss is new. And I wish that they would have, if they were to come to me, say, we know what the fuck you're doing. Go down to Florida for the half of 30 days. You'll have your job. I would be like, yeah, okay, fine. But obviously, it didn't work out that way. And I ended up having to leave my job, which, which sucked so bad because it was a job. I was, I would agree that I was really good at my job and to leave not on my terms. It was, it was rough. Yeah. Are you allowed to at this point talk about the exit, what led to the exit?

30:41Or is that something you kind of have to not not right now, but I promise once all this is cleared up, I will be back. No worries. I will. We want to respect that. Yeah. Of course. Absolutely. Okay. So you, I think, 2023, there were some complications with work and then 2000, when you got sober, was it January 2025? You, you left. January 24. I got to over 25. I left. And I've been pretty much never twice. I had, you know, I had to leave. Got it. So at that point, trying to find a job was impossible because they won't, you know, anything that I would have applied for or I did apply for, I would have been good at. They didn't hire me because all they had to do was Google my name. You know, I want to say Google my name and my police department, they would see what everything was about. Luckily, there is a very successful person in my town who I want to ask, I want to ask what Paving Company, I got me a job who I still work for today.

31:47It wasn't for him. I don't know if I would be able to even have an income. So he helped me out tremendously while doing, while doing that, I'm able to do my thing with social media and behind the badge project to try to help out first responders as well. I got the best of both worlds right now in, in fact, of, you know, working. Not the most ideal job going from a police officer to, to making an asphalt and all that, but it is what it is. I'm, I'm grateful for him to help me out, you know, and because without him, I don't know what I'd be doing. Yeah. Well, I think the most important thing there is you are speaking out and you've created, I'm sorry, what's the name of the project behind the badge project behind the badge project, and it's funny because you had just said there are people that reached out who I'm assuming are on the job and can't speak up. Right. And they want, it's crazy. You said if your bosses came to you and said, hey, why don't you go to Florida and lead with empathy and love.

32:51You would have probably gotten the help and you probably still would have been on the job. And it's crazy because you had said I knew that was, that was going to get the job was going to go eventually. And we know, but it's our solution. And that's the only solution we know. So it's like, I'll take the solution. And then when my life just completely falls apart, I'll just deal with it when it happens. I said, it's, it's, I hate to even think about, but yeah, you know what's going to happen. But rather than rectifying it right then and there, you just let it happen. Well, that's a testament to addicts, alcoholics want you stop. They don't want to continue doing drugs. They don't want to continue emptying bank accounts. They don't want to continue hurting their kids or their wives or their families. It's their solution. And listen, not making an excuse by any means, but I think that it speaks to what we need to do is the society, especially with first responders, we need to have a better system in place to make it okay for cops, firemen,

34:00whatever it may be to get the help that they need at least give them one chance. Listen to someone is relapsing relapsing relapsing time over time. Then there should be consequences. But if it someone gets an honest attempt at sobriety, that will make all the difference in the world. Absolutely. That will help so many people, right, prevent suicides. That's a problem because they're too afraid to speak up. Again, I told you I've had numerous people from the first responder world reach out to me and they say that they won't go. They won't go to their bosses or they won't go to a supervisor because they're afraid. I'm like, man, why are we still doing this in 2026? Why are we still? I also have this stigma of, you know, we can't go and ask for help or there's any whether it's drugs, alcohol, just or just mental health issues, you're on the job or so long. You should be able just to go to go to a supervisor, hey, I need help without the consequences, but too many of them to this day still think there's going to be consequences to pay if they try to get the help.

35:11And unfortunately, that's that's rude. I was on and I wish obviously I wish things were different and I spoke up, but I just didn't know the outcome. The outcome was going to be if I did speak up. So I took the alternative and didn't speak up and here I am. Yeah, but you know what? God has a different plan for you. Yeah. And I think the when I started this podcast when people started reaching out and say, hey, man, I've been listening to your podcast. I've 30 days sober today. No, you're getting that people that are reaching out to wild. That's awesome. That is the most rewarding thing in the entire world. No, I was at ease internally when I was actively using and my solution was drugs. So the underlying mental health, I mean, there's a plethora of mental health issues that I have, but like it rooted back to a lot of insecurity that I had. And I felt like for a while, I didn't have purpose. And then once I found this purpose in the podcast and started helping other people, you know, I had about six years sober when I started it.

36:17And I would sponsor people and meetings. And that was super helpful. That was giving back. I would go to meetings. I would get a commitment in 12 set meetings. But there was nothing like when I did my own thing and created this platform that enabled people to at home listen to these stories. They don't have to go out to a meeting. They could hear this story on their phone while working out in their dark room. If they don't want anyone to see them, like whatever, it's accessible anywhere. And that kind of work for me gave me hope. And I'm able to look at myself in the mirror. And no matter what's going on in my life, I know that I at least helped one person that day with that interview with that post that I made. And that those are a steamable acts right now. That's my solution when I feel not good about myself when I feel I mean just because I'm sober doesn't mean the cast doesn't go on in my head still. But I now have an alternative outlet instead of jumping to a drug or drink. It's going to help someone else. If I'm feeling shitty, go.

37:24I have a sponsor and anytime I would call when I'm burning up, I got some shit going on and I'm like freaking out. How many people did you help today? Like, you're right. And then I would call someone who has you know, his counting days and just listen to them rant for 20 minutes. And then I get off the phone with them. And then I forget what's going on in my life that's Kate making my life chaotic. And then I'm now grateful. Yep, it's crazy. Yeah, true. It's a when I left the job. I had an identity as a police officer and that was I was tough to deal with. I felt lost so lost. I was like, how am I going to replace that feeling? And when I started this project and realizing, okay, now I'm helping people in a different way but still helping people. That's what made this transition into doing this project so so easy because I know I'm helping people and that's what I've different 20 years. I had I when I was I understood the addiction. So when I'm on the job and I'm talking to other addicts who are on the street.

38:34I buy them lunch, they'll sit and talk. I'll tell I would tell them my stories during during my gamble and time to be really. Yeah, we would connect next. You know that person's coming into the police department asking to get him in the rehab or this this girl wants to get in the rehab. I formed a connection, but there's cops that I worked with their like, yeah, what the fuck are you doing? That person to drug addict like. But I get it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's doing that. When I left long forcement, it wasn't about the arrest wasn't about to take it. It was literally about helping those people. It felt good. You know, and they didn't I understood I understood the connection and the people that unfortunately I worked with didn't. And that's why they were kind of taken back by me not. She was in the way. So to speak you were connecting with them. Yeah, I understood it. And I knew the battle. I knew the struggle. And once I left the job, I was like, fuck, how am I going to get this back?

39:34But now this is it's a different form because it's dealing with first responders, but there's first responders out there that are dealing with dealing with addiction obviously and dealing with their own problems. And I'm going to be able to be able to be able to reach out again. I don't know these people. They're from all over reaching out and thank you. Keep posting your content. It's helping me out. I'm like me. Make my content. Right. I mean, like I post these videos. Multivitives a day. Almost not to replace my journal entries. I do a lot of journaling, but it definitely definitely helps in the sense of once I'm done a video. I'm like, I feel good. If I'm having like a shitty day, go do a video. I'm like, oh man, it's just it's weird. If you don't, I feel like some people don't understand that. Like I just did a video and now and now you feel good. What's that mean? It's just like, I don't know. Me getting my story out there or, you know, telling them something that maybe they they they want to hear or they're going through.

40:36It's a great feeling. You know what I mean? So I'm going to continue to help who who needs it. And you know, I've been speaking at rehabs. I'm June 18th. I'll be at the Archangel Center Mike Cernan. That's really sure his rehab some fight up about. So my main goal was trying to get into into police academy to talk to recruits. Get them early. Here's my story. Yeah, this is fucked up, but here's my story. And before you get to where I got you can go, you know, go talk to somebody. I mean, it's the biggest thing about this project is, you know, whoever is dealing with mental health and addiction reach out now before the self destruction. Yeah, because eventually it happens. You know, so if I can get to these academies or these police departments and talk to especially the younger officers, because if I talk to the older officers, they're going to blow me off. Yeah, whatever. It's the old school mentality shut the fuck up and you know, keep moving forward. But getting in touch with recruits and brokeies and having them maybe open their open their eyes. I think we'll change the game in the whole law enforcement community.

41:49And first responder community, because these kids coming in now, they don't. I mean, when I was in the academy, I didn't think I was going to go through the shit I went through. You were clueless. Yeah, clueless until I was like, oh my god, they, you know, I thought all cops were just on the street and narrowed. No one did anything wrong. And that's not the case. So if I can nip it in the bud before someone loses their job or unfortunately hurts himself, it's all worth a while. If you help just one cop, it's all worth the while. You know, you talked about filming a video and putting it out there and feeling so much better. And it's like you're putting it in the light. Nothing's in the dark anymore. Did you feel once everything ran its course with the job and let's say it's 2025. You're not working on the police force anymore. Did you feel a little sense of relief that like everything. Yeah, listen, you need to find a new way of income, all this stuff and you have a lot going on. But did you feel a little sense of relief that it was just in the light and or at any point during that whole.

42:55Yeah, yeah, because again, you live with such, you know, secrecy, and you just get tired of it. You get tired. But I also got tired of. I spent a lot of time on the job and maybe not enough time doing other things or being with my family because I had the job. However, when it came to leaving a huge sense of relief in that factor, but I missed it. I'm always going to miss the job. I'm always going to miss it. But going through what I went through, I'm glad it's behind me because if I never would have dealt with the issues, I probably still be doing what I was doing back in 23. I mean, and who knows what that would all lead to. Who knows. Could've been so bad. But every time for a reason, I'm a firm believer and every time for a reason. And even notes, it's a totally different route.

44:02I'm glad I'm able to do what I'm doing now. I think it's going to keep growing and growing. Now, to go back just a little bit, while this was all going on and that person had approached you about math, did your wife have any idea what was going on during that time? She found out when you had it, it got jammed up. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That was again, that was tough. The one thing I, one thing I don't want to do is, is, is leave out anything that, you know, I wanted, I wanted to say a bit just like game blunders to go to her. Listen, this is where I'm going. But it's just, it's a shame thing. You know, she you're embarrassed. Never in a million years that I think I'd be, I'd be doing, you know, dealing with the gamble and or dealing with drugs. And I know, fortunately, yeah, it happened. But it's hard to come forward. It's one thing I don't, I, I, I, so many times I just wanted to say this and here's what's going on. And until I had the teller, it ate me up.

45:11Once I told her, I felt good, but it was still still didn't matter. I mean, at that point, all this shit that was going on work, we're still going on and you don't want to keep anything from it from anyone. I was in the same breath, the, the shame. I thought was so much shame, guilt, that it was so hard to move past that. And I still have bouts of shame and guilt, but nowhere near to where I'd be debilitated like in my room all day. Just, you know, what, what, what was me and eventually, you know, with her breaking my balls, tell me to knock it off. You know, I, I had to stop. Yeah. Well, I commend you on the accountability because you, you could have, okay, you lost the job. You parted ways. And you could have just shelled up. You could have moved to another state, tried to start a new life. You stayed put, you went through it. Yeah. You overcame the fear of, I bought the fear happened, right? Where you were fearing, but you got through it.

46:19Yep. And you were turning this experience into something that you're speaking up about. I mean, you and I had a lot of back and forth about you were pumped to come on here and your story. Yep. And I respect that so much because not only is it part of your healing journey, but it's also the accountability of owning what you did. And listen, yeah, you did drugs. Should you have been doing drugs now? I did drugs. Should I have been doing drugs now? Was I working in corporate job? Yeah, were you on the job? Yeah. So it is what it is, right? But it has been proven that addiction is a disease. In fact, right? So again, back to the solution thing. However, you could have, you could have found escape goats somehow and not put your self in front of the camera and make videos to help other people. But you're turning it around and that to me is a success story. And you, I know you miss being a cop and that was, you were destined to be a cop. But like this is now your new journey.

47:26Yes. And this is what God wanted you to do. God showed, do you believe in God? Yes. Okay. I'm giving you all the God talk. Even know if you probably don't believe no. So, but this is the journey God put you on because he knew you were strong enough to go out there and help other people. I'm a firm believer in that. Yeah. And I respect that a lot. I respect you taking that torch and running with it. Yeah. It's not, I mean, people, when I first, March 13th is when I started my project. It was my birthday. I just went to, I went online. I just winged it. And ever since then, every day since, you know, since today, multiple videos and people are like, man, you're how are you able just to just to talk about, you know, I don't know. It's just now it's, now it's natural. But actually, it's natural in a way that I'm not going to be able to do it. It's natural in a way that, yeah, it feels so good to be able to do these videos and help people out that doesn't even even phase me. I'm not nervous. I just go with it. You know what I mean? Sure. Like you won't hear.

48:27So, but I mean, I'm hoping this, this can uplift my project even more because I know there's so many people out there that need help. What are you, what are you just speak up? Yeah. Yeah. So you talked a lot about just the different tools that you've implemented in the last two and a half years, giving back, starting your project. You are active in a program of recovery. You're going to speak, you speak at rehabs, which I love that. H and I hospitals and institutions. That's huge. And it keeps it raw for us. Yeah. You know, absolutely. You talked about, I think you said journaling. Yeah. What is journaling done for you? I started, well, I started journaling back in a team with the whole gamble and thing. And that helped me just just get my feelings out and just to talk about things that I don't talk to anybody about. Now, during was a two, it was a 2023. I started journaling when I, you know, was at a work or 24 and every now and then I'll post a journal entry from that time on to social media just to see what what tell show people what I was going through at that time.

49:48So, journaling helped me in a way that I never thought it would because I was just like, journal, you're writing in a book, but once you write your true feelings, how you feel, you realize how shit this is like, this actually works. Now, turning that into not so much journal every day, just telling my feelings on, you know, social media, you know, it's just, it's a good feeling to get out what your, what your thoughts are. What you're, what you're thinking, what you're feeling rather than keeping it bottled inside right wrong or different, you know, yeah. So I think that's huge. Every morning I journal when I wake up, when I first wake up in the morning, the thoughts of you're not good enough, you're a fraud. Everyone's going to find you out. Oh, I have those chaotic thoughts in the morning and I just, I don't engage with it. And I pray I make my bed and then I go downstairs and journal and get all of those thoughts that I'm thinking just out. And once I do that, that is a clean slate for the day. And then I start to indulge in gratitude and like the things I do have to get all that bullshit and chaos out of the way.

51:00I think with your project too, you know, earlier in the interview, you were talking about how first responders see it all and they just shove it down, shove it down, shove it down. That when I was on the scene of that accident, I watched those cops in the fire department. They were in training mode, like what they were trained to do, they were robots. And there wasn't much thought and processing. If you create this platform, which I mean you have, but giving a central place where first responders can go and share their feelings, whether it's a meeting and then building a community of first responders and having that community of other first responders who are just stuffing down their feelings and can talk about them. Having that community will make all the difference in the world as to whether someone will commit suicide, yeah, turn to alternative substances, but just creating a safe space, which could be their solution.

52:08Correct. To dealing with those emotions. Yeah, the suicide reaper, just for long force, was so high. And a lot of a lot of the time it's them who you know, keep it in what they keep everything bottled up until they just can't deal with it. Unfortunately, they just can't deal today more. And unfortunately, that's their solution. It's sad, it's sad. I don't want. Unfortunately, I had a couple of experiences with cops that worked with my old job that unfortunately took their lives. I'm just like, hand. At that point, it's not, and people say, that takes balls. No, no, you're mentally just just going. And it helps help people prior to getting to that point because that's a whole process of doing that. And for people to do that, it's sad. They tell how they got to that point. If I can alleviate that and they can they can call me or call another trusted support system.

53:09Trusted support systems huge because there's too many people out there that love will love to hear your bad story and go blabbing especially in the first responder world. There's so many, you know, people that you can't trust, which is sad. So if you have that trusted support system and being able to help others out. This is, this is so long overdue, Kevin, that I'm glad I started this a couple months ago because we have seen way too way too many for responders hurt themselves. And all they had to do was speak up. And they're afraid to still to this day. It's like, how, how is this even possible? You know, if this could change slowly and build and build this family into, okay, everyone's speaking up and everyone's getting the help that they need. Then our goals are met, you know what I mean? But until we have, until everyone's on board, we're still going to have the same, the same issues.

54:12But unfortunately, there are, you know, first responder departments that don't believe in, you know, the addiction and all that stuff. Even though there's classes and mental health classes, some of them are so hard headed that they don't want to believe it. And sad make, well, they got to go. Bring in the new regime, the younger regime that understands it, that can end up helping, helping these people so they can speak up. You should be able to speak up. But this is what's going on on your help. Okay, great. Not, you got to pay the consequences now, you know, that's why too many of the first responders don't speak up because of. What they might, what might happen to them. Yeah. I feel like we lack education. Yeah. And as a society, but also two with first responders, not saying they're uneducated. I'm saying about like addiction. Right. Well, it's a thing. There's too many people that are like, well, you, you signed up for this job. It's not about the job, what you do, it's about how you recover after. Right. Everyone knows what they signed off for. They, you know, they see it, but it's, it goes beyond that. It's okay.

55:16What can I do after I see this to make myself feel better rather than compartmentalizing it? Right now. That's, that's a problem. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for coming on. If people wanted to get in touch with you and find out more about your project, how can they do that behind the badge project on my Facebook, Instagram and TikTok. Okay. Behind the badge project. All one word. Yep. Okay. Well, thank you very much for everything that you're doing. I appreciate you coming down here. Thank you. I'll be back. Yeah. Part two. And also two for the listeners. There were some, some details that you couldn't get into. Right. But I think it was more important just to get you on rather than to wait when everything is done. Yeah. I think it's very important to get you on because there are so many first responders out there struggling or even just people who are not first responders. Exactly. I needed to hear your message today. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Not just us first responders, everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I commend you and thank you again for coming on. Thanks, Debbie.

56:17I've got to go on. I've got to go on. Hey, this is Kevin Lanning and you're listening to Rise Above. In this podcast, I talk with people who face life's toughest challenges, addiction, trauma, anxiety, depression and everything in between. Each guest shares their journey through dark times and the practical steps they took to rebuild their lives. Rise Above isn't just about the struggles. It's about the solutions. You'll hear stories of resilience and recovery that will inspire you to overcome your own challenges and take control of your life. Tune in to Rise Above on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts and start your journey towards healing and growth.