Inside El Mencho's Compound - "Something Felt Off" | Kat Szulc

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They're both a huge, huge help.

Thank you.

That was also odd to me.

Anyways, Rosalinda is free.

She, I guess, was on like house arrest, but she's kind of nowhere to be found.

And there's obviously a lot of nexus between her, her family and the Mexican federal government.

She a lot of...

She's been sanctioned by OFAC, a lot of her businesses have, but there's still a lot

of businesses that I'm not, that she runs that I'm not sanctioned by OFAC.

And her daughter with mental Lysha, she was actually pictured at the funeral yesterday.

Her...

She was living in...

The daughter was?

Yeah.

She, she's the youngest daughter.

She was living in, I think, San Bernardino in like a $5 million house that was paid for

in cash with her husband.

And her husband was actually just arrested last year, I think, was when I posted that last

year of the year before.

And...

Cartel guy?

Yeah.

And he had faked his death.

So when he was arrested, people were like, oh, he was alive, right?

And like El Minto had previously faked his death so many times.

And then there was also that rhetoric about like El Minto, like his liver is failing.

And he has crazy dialysis, which I do believe that he had like cirrhosis and like, wait,

is that liver failure?

Yeah, that's liver failure, right?

I think so.

Yeah, it is.

But I also didn't really believe it was maybe to the full extent that was being put

out to the public to try to try to give this perception that he's weak and frail, like

old Mafia Don kind of PR thing, I got you.

And so anyways, there's obviously clearly a lot of nexus between CG and G, the Queenies

and the US.

And I lost my train of thought and I was going to say something very important.

Well, we were talking about the compound, didn't have a lot of money in it, people were

taking their cut and everything and the wife had the money laundering charges, but she

was let go.

But the daughter's living in a $5 million mansion with a cartel guy who's dead, but not dead.

Yeah.

And then he gets arrested and she's back in Mexico.

She was pictured at the funeral yesterday.

It didn't look like her to me, but it is what is.

We're also the same age, which is like crazy to me.

But anyways, yeah, ask me something.

Yeah, you forgot where that was.

No problem.

Well, I'm sure we'll come back over here because what I wanted to get out with El Mencho,

this is why I was asking him about it with like the genesis.

So he's like the founder, if you will, and they rise up quickly, he's able to build out

obviously a fucking machine here of people.

Would you say, I mean, I think this is kind of what you're saying, I just want to make

sure I understand.

Literally because he was married to Valencia and had the backing of all that money and

that name brand, he was essentially allowed to start his own cartel, meaning the Chepitos

or some of the other cartels at the time in the region weren't looking at some new cartel

starting and saying, we're going to stop this before it starts.

They backed off because of who he was with.

It's quite possible.

But the Cinaloa cartel and C.G.

always had, they were enemies there.

And so that's why it was weird, well, not weird, but it was really shocking when they

kind of made that alliance with the Chepitos faction of the Cinaloa cartel.

They were not friends.

They were adversaries.

But because of the amount of money and power that Mencho held, they were able to gain

so much manpower and access that at that point, it was like, well, these cartels are essentially

coexisting.

Right.

Now, that's like in very simple language.

Right.

But when they start up, they're bringing in guys who have been in the cartels their whole

life, maybe just associated with other ones.

And now essentially they're starting this, it's like an expansion franchise in the NBA.

So they have people that are experienced, meaning right from the jump, they already had

networks all carved out in the United States, so they're starting day one, the business

has a storefront.

Exactly.

Because you're talking about fucking marrying into a family that was basically heading

the millennial cartel, which had Nexus with the Medellin cartel.

So and they were trafficking.

At one point, I think they were trafficking like $30 million worth of cocaine every month,

something like that.

I mean, you can fact check me on that, but there was, it was just absurd.

So yeah, there was, it was, it ran very deep, the connection and the access.

So at what point did Mencho, because when he starts CG, CG NG, CJ NG, I always fuck

up.

I always say CJ NG, but everyone here, CG NG, I think it's just the way that I speak.

And everyone, people are like, you're a dumbass.

You don't even know it's CJ NG, but you know, I have like the dyslexia with it every

time after I think about which one's the Jane, which one's the G, because it's learned

some right there with you, but no, but I'm not getting it wrong.

I say, I'm sure you're getting it right, but the commoners are going to say that.

Yeah, the fuck cares.

But he, at some point though, they get a big enough name that they piss off the United

States government.

They piss off everyone, even though they're buying off the Mexican government at the time,

that he goes into hiding effectively.

But at the beginning, he wasn't necessarily in hiding.

He always kept a low profile.

He really did always keep a low profile.

This was a guy who was not like El Chapo in the sense where he was fucking trying to

live it large and wanted the fame and the notoriety.

I mean, there was like a level of, you know, wanting to be highly respected.

And he was kind of like this mythological creature, but he kept it very low key.

I mean, he was like a typical Mexican, like guy from like the Rancho, like he, like I

said, he liked the cock fights.

He was like this, he would drink, you know, he was also like a family man in terms of

he took care of the family very much.

And a lot of narco corrido songs that refer to him, talk about how at the end of the day

he was like with the family.

So yeah, yeah, he, he was, I think that's why he was able to go undetected for so long.

It was also came as a surprise to me when like this whole thing went down because he was

super low key.

How long do you think they knew where he was?

Because he was the whole thing was that no one knows where the guy is.

If you were guessing how long the government knew a couple of years, maybe I don't know.

I mean, okay.

So the way we're told is that the US collected all of the intelligence on this.

And then Mexico was the one who did the boots on the ground opera.

And Mexico was the one who did the boots on the ground operation.

Now what I find out about this, there's a lot of things I find out about.

Oh, let's just start the top.

What's the first thing?

Um, okay, I'm going to go through like a couple hypothetical kind of situations with

this.

And because I was there and I saw this and I was like, this is like insulting my intelligence.

So I could see, so the US has been giving it since Trump's administration has been

giving Mexico a list every couple of months of guys that they need gone.

Okay.

We want him gone.

You could literally right?

You can hear it.

Yeah.

And Mexico sometimes would fulfill this list sometimes not.

And I think that also CG and G was at a point where they were becoming so powerful that

the US believed that unless they applied the kingpin strategy, there was nothing else

that they could do to put a dent in this cartel.

And as a review for people out there, the kingpin strategy is when you take out the kingpin

and that's it.

That's just go right for the head.

Yeah.

You just go right for the head of it, um, which I am a big proponent of hating the kingpin

strategy.

It's completely ineffective and it ends up, it's like a hydra like you chop off the head

and two worse ones grow back.

You should have told them before I ran and seems to be what we do around the world.

It is.

Yeah.

US loves the kingpin strategy and I'm really just not sure why I think it's just because

it's like the easy get perhaps it's a headline.

It is.

It is.

And it, it makes the US especially for ill informed people and makes the administration

look incredibly powerful like we took him out, um, and it's like, okay, but, um, it

doesn't work.

And then also typically we'll cause a lot of infighting like what we saw would happen

in Sinaloa when they got chapo and then they got my yo and it was like so many innocent

people's lives were absolutely ruined or they were killed.

So kingpin strategy just provokes more violence, more power and almost like more of a will

to, um, be like we're working and double down and we're going to make this stronger.

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Yeah.

The more I watch things in when you study history and then watch modern histories.

It happens around the world.

The more I watch how things turn out with something like the kingpin strategy, which is the

way a lot of governments have thought throughout time, the more I'm like, it's a really

uncomfortable thing to say.

But sometimes you have to deal with the devil.

You know, because it will be, it's like if I could have 40% of what I want and be pissed

off about the 60 I don't, I'd rather be in that situation than have fucking 5% of what

I want and be pissed off about the 95.

And there's just something about the human ego and I understand this that's like that's

unacceptable to me.

Yeah.

And then that's how a decision gets made.

And then you get these vacuums, which again, this is you laid this out last time.

You know, we talked literally exactly and we're watching it unfold right now in real

time.

Yeah.

And so I think that it got to a point where the US probably told Mexico, you know what?

We got to take out this kingpin C.J. and G is way too powerful.

We've sanctioned them to the tits and it's not working.

You guys are trying to get like lower level guys within the organization and it's not working.

So we're going to take them out.

And if you guys don't do it, we're going to pull a

unilateral operation and get our boots on the ground in Mexico more than they're already

are.

And yeah.

And we're going to go and do it.

And we're going to take credit because Mexico cannot handle this crisis.

So we're going to go in and we're going to make you guys embarrassed.

And it's also important to keep in mind that President Claudia Shimbama, Mexico is a big

proponent of mechs, a sovereign Mexico and no US intervention.

So if the US gathered all of this intelligence, here's El Mencho.

We know this.

Why?

Because his girlfriend who is allegedly this like Mexican aress is going to visit him.

And through a second, a third, a secondary person who knows her and where she's going

and who she's going with, we've tracked exactly where he's at it.

Okay.

Friday night.

She goes to visit him Saturday, she leaves two helicopters are flying around that compound

for a couple hours, who's helicopters, Mexico's Sunday, Mencho's captured and killed

and dies in transportation.

I don't believe that.

I don't believe he died.

That was the story.

Yeah.

That was the story.

Now, wait, so we they had they literally put their helicopters in eyesight right there

above the compound flying around every when I spoke to in the town and like only one

guy was willing to go on the record because they're so scared to speak out about this

fair enough.

That was the same thing that happened when I worked in Sinaloa.

Everyone heard and saw them.

Everyone.

And he didn't leave.

No, he stayed.

That's okay.

I see it.

Keep going.

Okay.

I'm clocking.

And so anyways, this is the story, right?

And then he there's a shoot out.

They pull him into the helicopter along with I think it was like three other of his guys.

So the plane that they transported them in is like very small.

I forget what it's called.

They pulled his butt.

They pulled him into the helicopter.

Well, apparently he like they brought him in because he was still alive at this point.

So they all right.

So they land the helicopters.

Not like they're dropping down a ladder or something.

I don't know if it was a helicopter plane.

I think it was and I have the name of it, the aircraft on the tip of my tongue.

But anyways, it's a small aircraft essentially.

They get it on the ground.

They bring him in.

Yeah.

And then three of his guys, I think.

And they all die in transport.

They might have been fucked up.

And so that's essentially the story of how El Mencho was captured and killed.

A day after seeing these helicopters that everyone could see.

Like a few hours.

Yeah.

Cause it was like it happened on Saturday and then I think it was like Sunday early morning.

So late Saturday nights and early morning.

And you said that let's go back into the mission known the specifics.

Cause you said the 25 Mexican military guys, National Guard, guys died in 12 that we know

of of his men of his men died.

It does include the three in the aircraft.

I think so.

Yeah.

So what did, how did they, what is the story at least of how they assaulted the compound?

Do we have any, is there any drone footage of the compound that we could look at and

might have some, I could have, sorry, that's all right.

We'll see if we can pull it up.

But go ahead.

Anyways, so that's the road actually right there to drive in to that compound.

I actually saw the remnants of those vehicles.

Oh, you know what, Kat, I forgot to do this earlier.

This would be helpful.

Can we pull up?

Can you give deep the name of the town again?

So we can pull up so people can kind of get an idea.

Let's do a topography map of it.

The fun, the Hollywood school, yeah.

Just like get bearings on where the location is, how remote it might be.

It's a pain in the ass to get up there.

It's up in the foothills, right?

Yeah.

Okay.

So, all right.

So what we, when we're looking at the, where is it, deep right there.

So we're, yeah, we're seeing the separation between like the mountains and the valley right

there.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then can you zoom all the way out?

Are there any other people at home?

So, you know, Southwestern Mexico, okay.

And so the mission, we're talking about the mission and what they reportedly did.

So this is what we're told that essentially the military came through the forested area

in front of all of these cabins that are on like this hilly region, okay.

Keep in mind, when I went there, okay, and we're told that a mental ran from those cabins

through the forest behind into the country club, I was fucking hopping and puffing going

from house to house, okay.

And like, I work out and I'm 25.

This gets 59 years old, apparently, yeah, on dialysis, but apparently he's booking it

through there in the videos and, you know, everyone will see the video of my whole tour

of this area.

I'm literally like I get to the top and I'm like, guys, give me a second, like I taste

blood because you're literally going like it is a mountainous region.

And so it's these winding roads between these cabins.

So anyways, there's a forested area, which now is all burned down to the ground.

It's all char because fire broke out from grenades and the shoot out.

And so it and firefighters couldn't get there.

So it's just all basically black and charred.

And so apparently from this main highway road, which by the way, you can fucking see every

single car driving on this main highway road from the cabin compound.

It's a very strategic location.

The military came through the forest.

All of the guys from the cabins start freaking out.

They come down in the forest.

There's this massive firefight, a bunch of people die and to be fair, like I did see

blood.

I did see remnants of grenades and bullets shell casings.

Like yeah, it looked normal ish.

It looked like like there was a firefighter for sure, meaning not you weren't looking at

it going.

This looks staged.

It looks like people were actually dying there.

It looked like yeah, something happened.

Did it look like the remnants of an operation to capture a men show?

No.

Why do you say no?

Because like, I'm almost wondering like, what would I expect it to look like?

You know what I mean?

I was expecting to see way more bullets and shell casings and blood, but I mean, there

was a fire.

So it's in everything is burned.

So it's hard to say what would be still lasting there.

At one point, like I found this one bullet and I go to pick it up and my camera runs like

stop.

Like it could be active.

And it's like some of the fire is still smoldering.

Well, I don't know now, but when I was there, like it's still smoldering.

So you're walking through and it's like smoking underneath you.

But anyways, then apparently forces push through.

They come up to the cabins and elemental allegedly takes off from the cabins through

forest behind these cabins to get into the country club, which is where his main house

was.

But like, are you talking about like an actual golf course country club kind of deal?

Yeah.

Literally.

And then in the forest where he tries to escape through is where he's shot at and they

capture him.

All right, one part I was thinking about here and I might be overthinking this because

I've just seen too much cartel shit in the in the past guys lived out in the foothills

for a long time.

Like you said, he's got health problems as well.

He's been the most powerful cartel person in Mexico for a while now.

He's got this whole compound set up with all his soldiers there.

He's got the second place where it's the country club where he's got a main residence

that he can get to.

And it's foothills.

So you dig through shit.

How the hell did he not have some sort of tunnel dug or something like that?

Some sort of escape valve, if you will.

I don't know.

And I was actually trying to look for a shit like that because I went into every single

house here and everything was wide open.

Actually all the lights were on in all of the houses.

I was dark out in the firefight star.

They had to see, right?

So I don't know, that's inside right there.

Yeah.

And I do have to say that some of these houses that had like broken windows or shell casings

in them that did not smell like gunpowder.

But I don't know.

I got there two days after I guess.

They were not being inhabited.

Like people weren't living there.

Okay.

And I'll tell you why.

Because I mean, you can fucking tell.

Like the curtains were like just covered in dust, but not like dust of like there was

a firefight.

But just like, you know, when you go to like, it's a like some place where no one's lived

for a while and it's like canvas curtain and then all the white dust like is on you.

That literally I have that in on the video.

Can we pull up cats Instagram as she put up?

I don't know if I have that like because I have it in video.

The long-form episode.

Right.

But you at least put like some of the.

Okay.

Okay.

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No.

So you were showing a house, go to a house that you showed.

Right there.

That one.

So if this house, okay, is where I shot this video you guys are about to see.

So what this is on in the compound.

Yes.

One of the cabbage homes allegedly where some of his men were saying so this video, yes,

is in there.

Okay.

Let's get some volume on this bad boy.

See what we got.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

So these are 50 caliber shots, but there's absolutely no damage in this house.

I don't know, it just looks kind of weird to me like, oh, they were defending themselves

and there was a massive.

You know, you walk through all the way down to where he tacked, there's more casings

over there.

There's casings there.

There's not a single bullet hole.

There's not a zero shattered window.

And four of us spent hours trying to find something in one of the hideout houses and

you can see these.

This wasn't just like, oh, I just took a glance.

Okay.

I was fucking like, we were looking to disprove, you know, that there's no, no bullet holes

in a place filled with bullet cases.

And then go back to the photo of that house.

So you see that little garage right there, bottom left.

There's a white Jeep parked in there with the keys in there, by the way.

I turned on the car.

There's on that driveway, there's a shit ton of 50 cowl casings.

That car is, there is not, they're not a dense in that car, not a dent.

And then the front license plate of the car is removed.

And so then at first glance, you're like, oh, that's a narco vehicle.

And one of the guys I was with was like, look, there's no license plate.

I go, no, look in the top left of the windshield.

There's a license plate right there.

All right.

Let's, let's play this out.

So to review.

Lives up in the foothills.

There's helicopters reported by everyone who lives in the area the day before

to helicopters circling that night or in the mid morning, the next morning.

Suddenly, Mexican military comes up through the hills and in the forest, if you will.

Alarms obviously go off for, you know, they're signaled such that his men come down from the cabins.

And there's allegedly this firefight with bullets and grenades right there down in the forest,

slash on the road to get up into the compound.

They try to get cirrhosis, almencio out of his place into the, into the country club across.

And you can see from this photo, do you see that hill?

Like how it slanted like that?

It's all like steep hills to walk through there.

So yeah, so cirrhosis, almencio was running through that way.

Actually, here's a good question while I go through this.

Where is the, that smoke is his compound up to the right here?

It'll be to the left to the left.

Now the smoke, what is that?

That's part of the fire.

So obviously, so it's alleged that he ran through a path in that foresty area to get to the country club house.

Okay.

So they alleged that when he was running on that path, they shot him and the men around him.

And then the Mexican military during this firefight of which they lost 25 people,

they were able to get him onto an aircraft and on that aircraft.

His three men that they brought on there with him and him died.

Yes.

Okay.

You go into this house though.

Which is littered with 50 cow shell casings, but there's no bullet holes.

There's no bullet holes.

There's no damage to the car down all of those windows.

I check the wooden doors and you know, people were saying to me, they're like,

it's because you don't understand how houses are made in Mexico.

You know, they're not using shitty materials.

Not to fucking withstand a 50 cow.

It's no, it's not so good.

What's it a fucking metal house?

No, it's not.

Yeah, exactly.

So, so anyways, that being said in front of these cabins.

So between where the cabins start and where the forest ends,

there's this big kind of open, kind of like a parking lot.

Okay.

There, there was all of these personal belongings littered everywhere.

Clothes, food, remnants, there was like a little barbecue, a bunch of food,

stuff like everything was just littered there.

There's a truck, a pickup truck parked there and a little motorcycle.

That pickup truck and that motorcycle had no bullet holes on them.

There was, they were in perfect condition.

And you videoed this for your long form?

I did.

We can actually go to that video.

I have it on my Instagram.

But then on that truck, there's this little smear of blood.

Which, which video?

That one.

No.

You can see the truck behind me.

It's in the volume.

Cool.

So this is that thing.

I have to go to the location in the Balbahali school where I mentioned was captured a few days ago.

This is literally the house he was staying at.

I'm outside of it right now.

It wasn't.

This seems to be an area right in front of the house where his bootedles, his lookouts were looking out.

They were camping out here to keep an eye out.

There's towels and food, remnants, sheets and then there's a truck here and a motorcycle.

And you can see there's actually blood on this truck.

So behind me right there is the forest area.

It looks like the military came through kind of like this way.

All of this forest in front of me is burned, even some of it's still smoltering.

But I'm seeing bullet shell casings everywhere.

Obviously, the blood and then remnants that should really hit the fan here.

One thing I'm seeing.

This is me in that house.

And you know, I've seen some blood here and there.

A lot of 50 cows.

Is there any?

There's some right here.

You see the Jeep behind me.

You can see there.

Over here.

There's a vehicle behind me.

It doesn't have front plates, but the plates are so red there.

It's also not a, it's not an armored car by any means, not bulletproof.

There's absolutely no damage to this house.

But there are 50 caliber shell casings everywhere.

And yet all of the walls, the windows, the vehicles are completely intact.

I just arrived to the location.

All right.

So this is what I'm getting at.

That's the story we've been told.

You're clearly finding things that do not line up at all.

And I'm not trying to be like conspiracy.

No, no, no.

It just looks weird.

It's in arguable.

There's a bunch of bullet casings with no holes, no blood, and the house looks like something.

So who are they shooting at?

So what?

They had the front door open and they were just boom, kill, boom, kill.

Right.

What do you have a fucking sharp shooter in that house?

So what do you think happened?

I don't know, but let me go pee first and then I'll give you my theories.

All right.

We'll be right back.

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Alright, so back to it.

What again, this is pure speculation.

You were able to at least see the scene though.

You've been there.

You know things are out of line.

I agree with what you found.

It's out of line.

It looks weird, right?

Whatever the story is, we know it's not what they're telling us.

Just to guess if you had to piece it together, what do you think might have actually happened?

Okay, I'm going to run through various ideas that of what could have possibly happened in certain theories.

And I'm not saying, you know, like I 100% believe any of them.

And I'm also not like discrediting any of them.

This is just certain possibilities.

Okay.

So first and something that could be very realistic is that, yes, this operation went down exactly the way the Mexican government is telling them.

The Mexican government is telling us and they captured and killed him.

But then they also wanted it to look more powerful and interesting than it really was.

And so they scattered some 50 cow bullets and made it look like, you know, they went through this fucking war to get him.

Which is why they then left this area wide open for the press to just walk on and completely contaminated and do whatever we wanted to there.

That's a possibility.

A second possibility is that he that the nothing happened at this area that I was at.

And it maybe all went down at the country club.

And so why would they stage this area?

What's the difference that the press could go in there and show people that the Mexican military did this huge operation without actually going to the real crime scene.

So they didn't let people to the country club.

No, so let me give you some context about that.

So I tried to go to the country club twice.

So Reuters was able to get into that main house on the country club.

And I'm pretty sure they were the only outlet that was able to get in there.

That's sketchy when I got to the country club entrance.

There are basically like us at us.

Like what do you call that?

Every time I come in your podcast, I feel like Hillary a Baldwin like.

So.

I'm serious.

It's so embarrassing.

Um, but there's like the little, you know, like the boxes with the person in it and you like you talk to them and you're like, hey, like.

Can you has like the arm?

Like, you know, when you go through like a paid toll highway.

And you have to like hand the money to the woman in like the little box and then the arm lifts up.

So they have that.

What do you call that in English?

That was fine.

I don't even know what you call that.

It's a bridge.

I have no fucking idea.

Anyways, like the little.

So that they have.

But not just talking shit over here.

But you're not paying to get into this country.

I got you.

So it's basically like the security.

What are you guys fucking?

I'm not.

It's all him.

He's just like, he's on one today.

Anyway, the hell are you a Baldwin?

Really got him.

Let's get Alex Baldwin on the podcast.

I keep forgetting that one.

I feel like that'd be fun.

Yeah.

I want to know what happened.

Oh my god.

That was a very sad story.

It was very sad.

Anyways.

Um, so they have a few of those boxes with like.

Security and then the arms.

So you can't just drive right in.

When I pull up to it on the first day.

There's no one in any of those boxes.

And all the arms are down.

And you basically have to press on the intercom.

And someone will talk to you to let you in.

But in the Renault police, no military there.

But there were two at least two very visible.

Cartel lookouts that were right in front.

Yeah.

And so one of the guys that I was with.

Because I had hired some people to come with me.

I know like everyone always gives me shit for doing stuff alone.

I did not do this assignment alone.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Um, it just, there was no way.

By the way, it's a quick little side path.

Sorry to get you off.

But when you go to do something like this,

even if you hire a few people, aren't you worried that like if you go there and.

Oh, I know that the people aren't like by any means a security blanket.

It's just in terms of like the gathering and the workflow just makes it easier.

Because I'm not doing everything alone and all.

And it also just makes me more anxious being alone.

So yeah.

And I was doing it alone a lot.

But now I, um, I, you know,

to gather all of this content, I need to have a team.

Yeah.

So you see the two cartel lookout guys.

Yeah.

And like one of the guys I'm with kind of starts panicking.

And I'm like, don't worry.

They're not going to do anything to us.

Let's just drive up.

And I drove for a lot of this trip.

And you'll see that in the content, which is like not ideal for filming.

But I have, you know, like woman on top.

If I'm not doing it, like someone's going to do it wrong type of thing.

Right.

So I'm like, we can just drive up.

We drive up.

And the cartel lookouts don't say or do anything.

But intercom is like, no, we have no presses allowed in.

It's an order from the government.

You can't come in.

Okay.

We leave.

Um, go to the cabins.

The next day, I'm like, let's try again.

And the people I'm with are like, there's no way.

When did the Reuters guys get in there?

Was it the day before?

Were you able to talk to anyone from their team who got in there?

No.

Interesting.

Okay.

Yeah.

Um, and so basically the next day I take out cash.

And I'm like, let's go in.

Um, it's Mexico.

It's Mexico.

It's Mexico.

You know, it's funny because when I first started in journalism,

they're like, never pay, never give gifts.

It goes against like journalistic standard practices.

And I'm like, well, I don't think that really applies to covering a cartels.

Okay.

I think I agree with you.

Yeah.

There's a certain area where it's like, I'm not interviewing the mayor of fucking small

town, Virginia here.

Okay.

And I give them a taste, you know?

So we go back and there's a bunch of military blocking it off.

The next day.

Yeah.

So when you say a bunch of military, we're talking like 20, 30 guys.

No, no, no, but there were some elements of military.

And it was just, it was a no go zone.

And those guys are really stern on that.

And they don't like to be filmed.

And it's like a whole thing.

So I was like, you know what?

Let's not even try.

Let's go.

I also like.

I like, I didn't have enough cash to pay all the money.

I'm being facetious guys.

But.

Um, so.

Yeah.

So anyways, um, we leave.

And there was just no way for us to get into that country club.

Now, another thing that could have happened.

Another theory is that.

El Mencho has already been dead.

And I interviewed a lot of people who.

This is what they believe in Mexico.

Um, El Mencho has been dead for a while.

Um, El Cero tres has been in El Mencho's position for a while.

Uh, which is also probably why in fighting didn't break out.

Um, and.

In order to.

Please the United States government so that they chill with their lists of people that they want.

Uh, C G and G came to an agreement with the Mexican government and said.

Look, you can get the US off your back.

Um, everyone will stay on our payroll.

You let us continue operating as normal.

But you guys can say that you took out.

You're going to have to pay some attention.

Um, but at the same time, what evidence or proof was given to the US government.

Then if that was already the case to believe that he was killed.

Maybe he already died at the compound in C G and G and the Mexican government came to an agreement that.

Hey, he's dying.

So as soon as he dies, you guys can take credit and take his body.

We, this is the first time really ever that we haven't seen a picture of the body.

Uh, it was closed casket.

Michael Jackson and like an Egyptian, like king that have had that.

Yeah.

So can we pull that up deep?

Oh, man, chose casket gold casket and also did you see the bouquet of roses in the shape of a rooster?

Because he was the same, this in your order of the rooster.

Anyone out cock fighting?

All right.

Do we have it?

Yeah, there it is.

Look at what a waste.

You fucking burying gold.

Listen, aside from a waste, I think for a lot of, uh,

Mexican families and people who were victims of extreme violence by the cartels.

Yeah.

This is just an additional slap in the face, you know, you have this really ostentatious funeral service, super luxurious.

Um, and there's so many missing and murdered people that were obviously at the hands of the cartel and.

Yeah, no, it's, I agree.

It's it, that's exactly it's, it's forced in the slap in the face.

Yeah.

So I mean, can the Mexican government even do anything about that?

Because he's dead as families technically allowed to do what they want.

When I was in the palpa, it was during this time where there was this back and forth between,

this is going to sound crazy back and forth between CG and the Mexican government because they wanted his body repatriated to the family.

And so CG and G requested formally to the Mexican government, like I think through a lawyer.

I'm not even joking.

I know.

Fucking obogados got to go in there.

So there was like this, um, letter sent and I'm pretty sure the president said that it was fake.

Uh, Mexican president said it was fake, but.

See, uh, my mental family requested his body.

They said that if they don't get the body by X date and time, that all hell was going to break loose.

Mexico didn't give the body, but nothing really happened.

And then eventually they did allegedly give the body back.

I think the reason, I mean, the reasoning here was obviously they didn't want to give the body because they didn't want like a shrine to be built for him at the cemetery.

Right.

You know, you've seen those photos and videos of the massive.

So basically a mansion for a tombstone.

Yes.

Um, and you know, people will go there and like, it's glorified.

So they'll pay their respects and they'll do whatever the hell.

Um, but anyways, so that's another theory is that he was already dead or he was dying.

And there was this agreement to get the US off the back.

But there had to obviously have been some sort of evidence for the US to be satisfied with this operation.

Now, okay, there's a lot going on.

I know.

On the on the surface, that makes sense.

That's a very interesting theory and at first that makes sense.

And I think it would make the most sense that he wasn't dead for a while.

It would make the most sense that they waited until he literally drew his last breath.

And I like, all right.

Let's go.

Yeah.

So that means they would have a body.

Right.

Right.

And a fresh body, if you will.

A couple issues just, I'm trying to poke holes in this to see what else there could be on the table if we're missing something.

That he faked his death.

That I wasn't even going to go there yet.

But let's, let's put a bookmark in that.

Yeah.

Because that's possible.

Okay.

The fact that there was so much bloodshed that affected right down to civilians the next day.

You would think something like that would have been agreed for something like this.

But the Mexican government is going to the most dangerous cartel and say, Hey, all right.

We're going to make a little deal.

You guys are going to be on the operating.

We're going to give a pound of flesh when your guy dies to the US.

Trump's going to be happy.

And then, you know, you go your way.

We go our way.

The fact that they would make that deal.

And a part of that deal would say, Yeah.

And you know, there's going to be a lot of violence the next day too.

And you're going to kill a lot of civilians.

But just make sure you cut it after day.

That seems like a bridge too far.

That's actually unnecessary.

Really?

How else would you sell it?

Also, I'm pretty sure one civilian died the rest of the Marnational Guard.

So that was all everything we were seeing was just National Guard.

You know, they were shooting up all these public places.

Yeah.

Only one civilian died.

Yeah.

That's actually somewhat impressive.

Is that that's true?

Yeah.

Can we check that?

Yeah.

That's crazy.

And then also their sacrifice in their own military guy.

Like, Yeah, we know you're going to have to come back at us and hit us.

I mean, you know, maybe it went too far.

Maybe that wasn't part of it.

You know, this is all hypothetical.

Can we just say that?

Because I don't want people to be like, she sounds like fucking Candace Owens talking

about Charlie Kirk.

Um, so.

Okay.

Based on reports following the death of Helisco, new generation, Cartel leader, a men show,

at least 73 people died in resulting violence and military, which was lower than I thought.

While the total death toll exceeded 70, the majority of these fatalities were identified as

cartel members and security forces initial reports from authorities and news outlets mentioned

at least one confirmed civilian death.

You're right.

And that's another thing.

Like 73 bodies is a lot, by the way.

I don't want to minimize that.

It is.

It seemed a lot worse with the imagery we were seeing and hearing about.

Place the airport being shut down.

Isn't that kind of the point?

The sheltering in place.

Kind of the point.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

Right.

I see what you're saying.

Get a good angle.

Send it to the US.

I got you.

Okay.

And I think that.

Fuck.

I'm going to get so canceled for this.

But I mean.

It's all right.

The president is so.

Like really standing down on.

We are a soft Mexico is a sovereign nation.

Shine.

Yeah.

That.

Yeah.

We'll do whatever it takes so that US doesn't launch a unilateral operation.

Yeah.

This.

This gets into.

Other recent events too.

There's kind of some overlap here.

So maybe we should bring this in.

You had a.

Delta force mission to extract the leader of a sovereign country on January 2nd.

Because of drugs.

Okay.

Venezuela moves drugs.

We know that.

Compared to Mexico, they move three baggies in a fucking eight ball.

Yeah.

All right.

Like it's not even.

It's nothing.

It's a drop.

It's not declared terror organizations to our neighboring country.

It's even closer than Venezuela.

And we haven't.

Invaded there to, you know, go boom, boom, boom.

On all these guys.

Exactly.

It feels like.

You know, maybe I got a little tinful hat on here.

But it feels like there's some sort of tacit agreement to the PR campaign that that is.

Meaning a tacit agreement between.

Shine bomb and Trump.

Where it's like, we're going to say all this shit.

We're going to declare him terrorist organizations, whatever you help us out.

You know, maybe give us a pound of flesh once in a while.

So we can market it to the public.

But like.

We're not going to come in there.

We're not going to actually do like what we did in Afghanistan or something like that.

And I also think because logistically, like the proximity obviously of US to Mexico.

If there were US boots on the ground, it obviously increases the chance that there's going to be some sort of retaliation against Americans.

This was one thing that was really pissing me off.

I'm not going to lie.

When I was.

Seeing how people in Port Abayarta people, you know, on vacation Americans and Canadians who were like,

I'm in the middle of a war zone.

And it's like, shut up and drink your pinnacle out of there.

Not going to fucking kill you.

Like, be so for real right now.

Like, are you with the cartel?

Are you with the Mexican government?

You probably couldn't even name the fucking secretary of national security of Mexico.

Nobody gives a fuck about you, John.

Literally.

And they're all like on Instagram.

Like, oh, my God.

It's like, shut up.

Yeah.

So anyways, that.

And then President Shinbom's response was also just like really weird to me because as all of this was going on, like the chaos.

She every morning, she does her morning press conference.

And this was probably like her most viewed one ever.

I'm pretty sure.

And she just gets up there and she's like,

everyone remain calm.

Like, we have control.

No need to panic.

It'll all be okay.

And he's gone.

Like, if I was Shinbom, and I, like I seriously stand by this, I would have went up there and been like,

Mencho died like a dog.

You know, like I'll buy daddy.

I would have been like, Mencho died like a dog.

This is the future of a sovereign and liberated Mexico.

This is war against the cartels.

And we want all of you who hate the cartels, all of you who have missing and murdered family members,

all of you who have been victims of these people band together.

We're fucking taking them on.

And we have the support of the United States government.

This is going to be the new beginning, the end of drug cartels.

If I could see it her way for one second, she'd be dead before she got off the stage or she did that.

Maybe like, okay, time for her to go.

Like, that's the, that's the shitty thing.

They have such inroads to every, they are the ultimate parasite.

I know.

They have inroads.

I mean, you've done some amazing interviews with guys where it's so clear.

Like you're talking about like the governor of the region is like, well, he's on the fucking payroll.

Dude, they're like, they don't even hide it.

They don't even hide it.

So actually though, actually you want to, this is crazy.

Oh, please.

When I was in, I'm not going to say exactly where I don't want to get in trouble.

But one of the regions that I was in when I was reporting on this, I went out one night,

just like kind of touring the town in the middle of the night to see what was going on.

And there was a local politician and he was soliciting a hooker.

That's it.

Yeah.

That was news.

Take that out.

Fine.

No, it was fine.

It was good.

It was a funny joke.

A politician getting a hooker.

I know it's coming.

Revolutionary.

Okay.

Sorry.

I'm going to get so much hate for that now.

Can you get the on Twitter, Dave?

There's a video of Claudia Scheinbaum talking about the human rights of the cartel.

Okay.

But to be fair in her defense, unlike her predecessor, Amlo.

I think that's a deep.

Yeah.

Who he was always saying, like, Abrasos no Bellasos hugs not bullets.

She's never explicitly said Abrasos no Bellasos.

Okay.

All right.

So if necessary, we'll mobilize.

We don't want taxes on reminiscence.

No, no, no.

I'm sorry.

Not that one.

But I think that's the right press conference.

Do Scheinbaum.

Oh, wait, wait.

What does that one say?

No, she's talking about electoral reform.

Okay.

Yes.

Yes.

Here we go.

Yeah.

Where she's talking about.

She got mad that this was getting shared after the elemental thing because she said things

change.

And this was in the past.

Oh, this was before.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This wasn't following.

Everyone was sharing it like it was following.

Well, you know what?

Let's not do that.

If this was before and she's changed her tune on that, then.

This was before.

And she was basically what she was saying was, you know, we don't want to go to war.

It wasn't hugs, not bullets, but it was a similar kind of drink.

Yeah, it was like they have rights to you can't just go after them.

And actually, if I could steal man that for a second, it's just a little weird to talk

about it in Mexico.

Because it's like, oh, suddenly we care about individual rights, right?

Yeah.

What she's saying is because they are technically citizens of Mexico, they deserve a fair

trial.

The argument against that is they own the fucking courts.

They own the, they, they own the cops.

They own the government.

There's no such thing as a fair, like you have to, the U.S. declared them terror groups

easy for us to do because it's not our country, right?

You may need to do something like that internally and put language in such a declaration that

does not set precedent such that you can do it to lesser people in the future, meaning

people that aren't cartel just because you don't like them, like criminals you want

to go after.

You just anytime you see a criminal eventually, you could be like he's a terrorist, therefore

they have no rights.

I understand the precedent, but like when you have such a strong, long, demonstrated history

of these groups wreaking havoc across your country and on every environment and community

that they're around, you might need to do something a little different than like, yeah, you

know, let's just let the courts handle it.

Another way her policy contradicts itself is that when she's saying the human right stuff

and going by, you know, legalities over the course of the last year, there have been,

I think like four, maybe five at this point, expulsions of Mexican fugitives to the United

States and it was not done under the extradition treaty, which was the policy outlined so that

when these fugitives, like for example, when El Chapo was extradited to the US, he cannot

face the death penalty under the policy of the extradition treaty.

Whereas over the last couple of years, or over the last year, when these, the same thing

happened, these fugitives were expelled from Mexico to the US to face Mexican justice system.

It was not done under the extradition treaty.

So they were at risk, I guess, of facing the death penalty.

How's that legal?

They're internationally wanted fugitives and so they committed crimes against Americans.

So America has the right to request for them to face court, an American court.

And so the paperwork was done in order to send them to the US, but they were not extradited,

they were expelled and transferred to the US. None of them got the death penalty, not even

Garo Quintero, who is responsible for the death of D.A.

Genkiki Kamarena, but a lot of people believed, oh, he's going to get, you know, he's going

to get the death penalty.

Oh, that's what I was thinking on earlier.

One of the five guys, you showed me the last guy, the younger looking one with the long hair,

literally looks like the dude who played Carro Cantaro in Narcos.

I didn't notice that.

I'm like, I feel like we already got the actor for Narcos season three.

I think Narcos season three is going to be crazy.

Yeah, listen, that you know, like fucking the Netflix execs and the

Narcos production team was watching this.

And it was like the scene in the office for the like everyone remain calm.

It's happening.

Like, let's fucking do it for sure.

But they should, it would be different if they're doing something as it's unfolding.

Yeah, right?

So they do a season that's covering like all this shit that just happened.

And then like, shit's continuing.

I mean, I'm not rooting for violence and everything.

But obviously like it's con chaos a little bit.

And there may be more chaos to come probably.

Hope there's not probably will be hope.

There's not too.

And then like season two can be like, yo, they're writing it while they're watching

the news like, oh, shit.

Yeah, because it's not like back in the day where they were like talking about

fucking a madokari you and stuff like that.

Yeah.

You know, that's already done.

But it's happening in real time now.

All right.

So our possible theory is that he was dying or already dead.

And this was a pound of flesh for, you know, some underground, you know,

handshake agreement to be like, you do your thing.

We do ours.

Everyone's happy.

Let's move on.

What about the other theory you brought up, which is that he faked his own death?

Is there anything to that?

The thing is, I think really what's to that is that he's done it so many times before.

His son-in-law did it.

Um, he's been known to fake his own death.

Uh, and that's part of him being the type of guy who lays under, you know,

lays under the radar.

Chapo never faked his death that I know of.

Um, and so, and, uh, sometimes it was very believable.

Um, we've seen people literally go on the record and be like, like years ago,

and be like, yeah, he's, he's, he's dead.

I think he's dead.

I was actually up until probably just maybe eight months ago was still getting

messages of people being like, do you think he's dead or alive?

When you say people like sources in the cartel?

No, no, random people.

All right.

People in the cartel, yeah, no.

Well, I know, I, because I know sometimes you do talk to people,

doesn't mean they're in the room with them or anything.

But like, I'd be curious to know if there were rumors

among actual cicareos or guys like that who might have been saying,

even from other factions, like from the Chepitos or something,

like, yeah, I think he might be dead.

That'd be pretty interesting.

So the rumors that I've heard from certain sources within the cartels,

and especially in this region, were that he was dying.

Hmm.

I feel like that person in those movies where it's like, you know,

you're like, all strung out and you have all the pictures on the wall with like,

threads connecting it.

It's like the Charlie from Always Sunny meme.

Yeah.

Where he's like, yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

That's what I feel like.

But I'm, I don't want it to sound like I'm crazy.

It's just that after being there and considering the context of everything

I know surrounding this, it's weird.

And the fact that that chaos broke out, you know,

it only happened for one day.

I know it's obviously not great.

But when I saw this news, when it broke,

I was like, oh, fuck, so many people are going to die.

And so many people are going to lose their livelihoods.

Like it's going to be like, what happened in Sinaloa?

And then it stopped.

And there was nothing.

Right.

Now, what was that stuff?

Because you were flying in like when it was stopping, I guess.

What was that stopage like?

Like they had shut down a lot of shit as you laid out earlier.

It was pretty much just cartel and military guys killing each other.

It wasn't as much civilians,

but people were still spooked in these areas.

When it stopped, it said it was like cockroaches just

scattering off the street.

And then everyone's like, oh, we're back to normal now.

Yeah, like there was no more burning buses

in the middle of the streets and narco blockades.

And so it was difficult for me because like obviously on the day

the chaos broke out, I couldn't get from Mexico City to Guadalajara

to Halisco because there were narco blockades all across the highways.

And the airports were closed in Halisco.

So I was reaching out to people.

And I had people like, thank you to some of the subscribers

that were like, I have a small aircraft I can try to get you in.

But it was just I didn't know what to expect from the situation.

And then all of a sudden,

everything opened up like normal.

I got there.

And all I saw was remnants of the burned buses all along the highways.

But there were no more burning buses.

There were no more narco blockades.

I mean, sure.

There were boom, there those cartel lookouts everywhere.

Absolutely everywhere.

Did it end?

Did they know to a lot of them know who you were?

I would hope not.

I mean, because I report in English,

I feel like that I have a little bit of,

what's the word like an anemone?

Yeah, I guess.

I don't know though, because now you've broken some serious stories.

You know, you've been on Sean Ryan show.

Like, I don't know.

I do know that I am tracked in Mexico by by God knows who.

What do you mean tracked?

A lot of people know where I'm at, know what flights I'm taking.

And but I don't know if like down to the very bottom of like a cartel lookout,

who's really not making that much money and is like on their motorcycle,

just the person who's like alerting if, you know,

there's some sort of military action or whatever.

I don't think those guys recognize me.

And they saw me because like I was driving through,

and I'm going up the windy roads to like cartel strongholds to see what it's like.

And they're like looking at you in the car.

Like she's back.

No, I just said they're, oh, pretty girl.

Like that's it.

Like, what's she doing here, you know?

I don't think, I think if I did stuff in Spanish and like more frequently,

then yeah, then it would be a problem.

But I'm always like with like American outlets and stuff.

I just thought of something.

What?

From a couple of minutes ago.

I don't know why I just thought of this was what you're saying.

So just to go back for a minute,

said there's three options.

It's either he's dead and it just didn't go down as they said.

He's dead, but he was really dying.

And it was just a deal made with the government or he faked his death.

What about the fourth door?

What if it was a quiet overthrow?

You mentioned that in the literally Excel spreadsheets,

you can see the secarias are basically paid in like fucking,

you know, they're being given like a box of Trojans.

That's it.

You know, so what if,

what if enough people quietly got together and said,

you know, one of the three guys we were talking about will get behind you.

Let's fucking give this guy up quietly to the government and act like we didn't, by the way.

I don't know.

I don't know.

And it would have had to have the agreement with the Valencia family.

Los Queenies would have had to have it.

Yeah, it would have had to have that.

But I mean, you never know maybe because what set,

what we're told is that he was tracked through this woman that he was seeing.

Yeah, was was she actually like an only fans model or something?

No, oh my god, that was like fake news.

Dude, that was stressing me out because all the images were AI.

But people were fully going viral for posting random

Mexican only fan girls and they were like going on live crying,

being like, I don't know him.

Like I wasn't fucking him.

And that's dude, they were putting targets on those girls backs.

Like that was very dangerous.

And I was talking with someone about them.

They're like, well, who cares?

And I was like, well, how could you not?

What if someone did that to me?

What if someone who was like, oh, well, actually,

Ketterina Schultz was going and that would,

oh my god, absolutely not.

That's crazy.

So no, it wasn't from what we can tell.

It was actually a very age-appropriate woman who was seeing him

and she came from a very rich family.

I mean,

mental clearly had something where he could just

date really rich women.

But that's again, that's based on the story they're telling us.

Oh, yeah, we tracked them here or there.

And that's going from the US side on the intelligence op.

Wait, explain that.

Because the US gathered all of the intelligence

and handed it to Mexico and to Silver Platter

and said, all right, now go get them.

Yeah, that's

something that I agree with you.

Even without talking about the scene itself,

which we know something's off there,

something's real.

Well, so I'm always like, when I go into these things,

like, I'm a very critical person.

You know this, right?

So it's like, that's my journalist.

Ask all the questions, what doesn't add up, whatever.

And I try to be really logical and rational about these things.

And not to get, you know, in over my head.

And you've noticed that because even when I talk on your podcast,

like sometimes if I do say something that may sound crazy to some people,

it typically ends up being right because I do try to rationalize.

With this, you know, I was trying to do that, whatever.

And I went in, honestly, under the impression that, yeah,

the operation happened and he was killed.

But I still had these questions in the back of my mind.

And we weren't getting any answers.

And I thought it was weird that we never saw the body.

I thought it was weird that there was no infighting.

And then I got there and I'm like,

something doesn't add up.

Like, at all, it is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.

It is so weird.