Inside the OIG Interview: Tova Noel’s Account of the Morning Jeffrey Epstein Died (Part 26) (3/27/26)

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What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles.

In this episode, we're going to pick up where we left off,

with the OIG interview with Tov'n'Awell.

Question.

Did any of the supervisors or staff talk with you about the incident?

Noelle, no.

Question aside from that one, when Lieutenant redacted.

Noelle, Lieutenant asked me.

Question, okay.

So I just want to again, when I ask you these questions,

just make sure we say like aside from this or that.

So any other things aside from that instance,

where they asked you what happened,

and you said you don't recall saying,

we didn't do the 3am and 5am rounds.

But you do recall Thomas saying,

it wasn't her fault.

Noelle, yeah.

Question, we didn't do the rounds.

Noelle, yeah.

Question, any other questions other than that?

Noelle, um, they asked me to go downstairs to the Lieutenant's office.

And then I was just standing down there.

Question, but no one spoke with you.

Noelle, no.

Question, did anyone even ask why you were down there?

Or how you were?

Noelle, oh, the psychologist asked me how I was.

Question, okay.

So, but did she ask you about the information?

Question, no.

They didn't ask anything about that.

Question, it was just about your mental wellbeing.

Noelle, yeah.

Question, what time did you stay at the institution

until on August 10th?

Noelle, I left at like around 8.

Redacted a little bit after your shift.

Noelle, yeah.

Question, you didn't have to stick around for anything else.

Noelle, no.

Question, did you have to sign any paperwork?

Noelle, no.

Question, you were left right around the end of your shift.

Did they tell you to leave?

Noelle, my shift was over.

They said I could go.

Question, I just mean like, did they instruct you to go home?

You just had a traumatic experience.

Or it's just your shift was ended and you left.

Noelle, my shift was ended and I asked if I can go now.

And they said go.

Question, okay.

And who was it that said you can go?

Noelle, the lieutenant.

Question, do you remember which lieutenant?

Noelle, redacted.

Question, redacted, not redacted.

Noelle, not redacted.

Question, okay.

Redacted.

But you didn't have any other conversations with redacted.

Noelle, no.

Question, okay.

Did you ever handle or touch Epstein's paperwork?

Epstein's file or paperwork?

Prior to your departure from MCC on August 10th.

Noelle, no.

Question.

So in that time, from you said that you were by yourself

for 20 minutes.

Did you ever go near his file?

Noelle, I don't even know where the file is.

No.

Question, all right.

Do you know if they keep files on inmates?

I think they're called like, what is it?

A 292 or something like that?

Noelle, no.

Question, do you know what's kept in a 292?

Noelle, no.

Question, like when you feed an inmate

or when you give them.

Noelle, oh, that's like when you log into

and you're okay.

Question, is there also a paperwork that follows that

or is it just logging into the BOP system?

Noelle, that's logging into the system.

Question, okay.

When you, during the time that you were on your shift

at all on August 10th,

did you ever log into that system?

Noelle, no.

Question.

So you never had to enter

then you fed them or that you went into.

She gets cut off by noelle, no.

Question.

And you checked on them or anything like that.

Noelle, no.

Question, when would that be done?

Noelle at the earlier part of the day

or when you feed?

Question, so around that time?

Noelle, after four.

Question after four a.m.

Noelle, no, four p.m.

Question four p.m.

So when you say the earlier part of the day,

you mean the later part of the day?

Noelle, no.

Like when my shift starts at four,

after you feed.

That's the time I see like the log in

to say, okay, they've been fed.

But I've never really one day.

I actually like was in there because

redacted was showing me how to do it.

But I don't necessarily do that.

Somebody else will do it.

Question.

And what was he showing you how to do?

Noelle, how to log it?

Question.

So what is it that you're supposed to log?

You know, in the system.

Noelle, I vaguely remember because I don't

did it.

He only showed me that one time.

I think you're supposed to like log off

or log if they showered, log if they're feeding.

And I don't know if you give out stuff, I guess.

I don't know.

Question.

But you don't.

You're not aware of the actual paper file.

Noelle, no.

Question.

Where those things are monitored or tracked?

Noelle, no.

Question.

And you never did that for any inmate.

Noelle, no.

Question.

You never filled out paperwork or kept files for inmates.

Noelle, no, never.

Question.

So obviously you never handled

or touched Epstein's paperwork.

Noelle, never.

Question or his file?

Did you ever remove any of Epstein's paperwork from his file?

Noelle, no.

Question.

Did you ever remove or destroy any of Epstein's paperwork?

Noelle, no.

Question.

Did you ever remove or destroy?

That's a repetitive question.

Did you ever remove or destroy any signs related to Epstein

to include signs that said he was required to have a cellmate?

Noelle, no.

Question.

Did you access any B.O.P. database,

such as B.O.P. wear,

century, true view?

After Epstein was discovered on August 10th, 2019.

Noelle, no.

Question.

Did you report?

What was the last time you reported to work?

On August 10th?

Noelle, yeah.

Question.

Were you placed on administrative leave?

Noelle, yeah.

Question by whom?

Noelle, I don't know.

I got a phone call saying

that I was placed on administrative leave.

But I don't remember by who.

And then I got the letter.

Question.

Did you receive an explanation verbally?

Noelle, no.

Question, no.

So the person told you that you were on administrative leave?

That was the extent of the conversation.

Noelle, and then I said,

so when do I come back?

And they was like, you'll get a call

like when or if you're supposed to come back.

Question, okay.

And what did that administrative leave change

to a different type of leave?

Noelle suspended without pay?

Question, indefinite suspension?

Was that it?

Is that what you're on right now?

Noelle, yeah.

Question, okay.

Did you communicate with Michael Thomas

after Epstein's body was discovered?

Noelle, no.

Question.

Did you communicate?

He gets cut off by noelle.

We communicated never because we was not allowed to communicate.

Question.

I'm talking about right after the body was discovered.

People respond.

And then did you communicate?

You talked about the one instance outside of the elevator?

Noelle, yeah, yeah, yeah, but no.

Question.

But you guys didn't actually converse.

You were just talking to the lieutenant?

Noelle, right.

Question.

And at no point also, did you ever converse?

Noelle, no.

Question, did you guys talk somewhere else?

Noelle, no.

Question since then?

Like outside of work?

Noelle, no.

Question, you don't recall anytime?

So if he says that you guys talked it up,

you don't remember that?

Noelle, we never spoke until we had a union meeting.

Question, that's what I'm asking, ever.

Question.

Oh, never spoke until the union meeting.

That was just like two weeks ago, but we never ever spoke.

Question.

That's kind of like when I say ever, that means ever.

Anytime from then until this moment.

Noelle, from until the union meeting, we never spoke.

Question, all right.

So what was discussed at the union meeting?

Noelle, that we're going to have an investigation.

And the union is there for us.

They're supporting us, stuff like that.

Question, but did you discuss this with Thomas?

Noelle, what?

Question, the investigation.

Noelle, no.

Question, did you ever discuss like what you were going to tell us?

Noelle, no.

Question or what you were going to say during the interview?

Noelle, no.

Question.

So what did your communication entail?

Noelle with Thomas?

It wasn't with Thomas, but he was present.

So basically, the union was saying,

you know, they're fighting for us.

They're there for us.

They're supporting us.

You know, that was along the line.

We're going to have to meet with you guys to be investigated.

Just tell the truth.

That was along the line.

Question, okay.

Noelle, but my conversation wasn't directly with Thomas.

We were both being told.

Question, so aside from the union,

and with that interaction with Thomas,

was anybody else that you discussed the Epstein incident with

since August 10th?

Noelle, no.

Question, no.

Aside from your attorneys,

question more or less.

Question, is there anything else you want to add to anything we've talked about?

Being and just keep in mind that it's under oath.

What you have just said, the union just said, tell the truth.

The way that you get in trouble from this point forward is basically

if you don't tell the truth.

You know, anything that we need to clarify,

anything that you can think about,

like maybe I should provide some additional background information regarding that.

Boy, no, I can't think of anything.

Question, okay, so everything's good because I just want to pass it over

to see if there's anything the agent redacted wants to ask.

Question, you mentioned there was an office in the shoe for the lieutenant.

Noelle, yeah.

Question, where is that located?

Noelle upstairs, outside of the door for 10 South.

Question, who normally sits there?

Noelle, the lieutenant.

Question, who would that be?

Noelle, lieutenant, redacted.

Question, have you ever been in that office?

Noelle, no.

Question, do you know anyone else that utilizes that office?

Noelle, no.

Question, after the incident happened,

did you, after Epstein was removed?

Did you see any lieutenants at the MCC?

Noelle, did I see any lieutenants?

Question, yeah.

Which lieutenants did you see at the MCC?

Noelle, lieutenant, redacted, but who was there?

Question, yeah, whoever's present, did you actually see?

Noelle, lieutenant, redacted.

Lieutenant, redacted.

Lieutenant, redacted was getting off,

but she came like to help feed.

Question, she came back to help feed?

Noelle, yeah.

Question, did you have a conversation with her?

Noelle, lieutenant, redacted.

Question, yeah.

Noelle, no.

Question, how did you know she came back to help feed?

Noelle, I was there.

Question, and where was she?

Noelle, where was she when?

Question, when you were leaving.

Where was she?

Noelle in the shoe?

Question, okay, she was in the shoe,

physically in the shoe.

Noelle, helping feed.

Question, okay.

And what time are we talking about?

A different investigator pipes in?

This is after the incident.

Question, oh, okay.

Investigator, this is just for clarification purposes.

Noelle, okay.

Question, I know you mentioned this before,

I'm just going to clarify it.

A couple of questions.

Did you ever assist any inmates with making phone calls?

Noelle, no.

Question, do you know that if an inmate

wanted to make a phone call,

how would they go about it?

Question or answer Noelle?

They use their pen number.

Question is every inmate assigned one?

Noelle, yeah.

Question, can they call anybody they wanted to?

Noelle, I don't know.

Question, is there a restriction on certain people

that they're not allowed to call?

Noelle, I don't know.

Question, okay.

Did you know that inmate calls are monitored?

Noelle, yeah.

Question, do you know the difference between a monitor line

and the legal line?

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So there was one line that's used to make legal phone calls.

That's just for attorneys.

Noelle, okay.

So those that line is not monitored.

Noelle, oh.

Question, but the other line is any calls that they make

is recorded.

Noelle, okay.

But I don't know where like which line is which.

But I'm aware that there's a recorded line

and the other line.

But I don't know which line is which

or where the legal line is.

Question, okay.

You said it was not weird that Epstein was left alone with his phone.

Has that happened before?

Noelle, where an inmate is in the tier using the phone, yeah.

Question, do you reckon election?

Which other inmates were allowed to make phone calls like that?

Noelle, I don't have a name.

But it's not because they're allowed to make a phone call like that.

It's only if where their cell is located, the jack's not working.

So it's not like we put inmates in the shower to have private phone calls.

It's just if that's where your cell is at,

the jack's not working.

They put you because they can't put you with another.

It's another inmate's room.

And they can't leave you out in the open.

So they place you over there because the jack is closest

to make the phone call.

Question, so you know who could set up a call like that?

Can anyone, any CO just plug it in?

Or does it have to be a specific person who plugs it in?

Noelle, that I don't know.

If any CO could just plug it in, I don't know.

Question, you don't know.

Would you happen to know if Epstein had a PAC and pin a sign to him?

Noelle, I would think he would, but I don't know for sure.

Question, do you recall that night when redacted set up the phone call?

Did he tell you who Epstein was supposed to be speaking to?

Noelle, no.

Question, that's all I have.

Redacted, and then the two final final follow-ups just because we discussed it,

and I kind of gave it to you from memory.

But this is special housing unit post orders regarding cell rotations

and cell searches.

It just quickly says, all shoe staff are expected to conduct searches

of the special housing unit.

The morning watch officers will conduct searches of the common areas

and document their findings in the search section of the True Scrub Program.

The day watch officers will conduct a search of every and made cell

who attends recreation.

The evening watch officer will conduct a minimum of five cell searches during their shift.

And that's what I was just trying to get in discernible just to make sure

that that's just if you want to just initial and date.

And also, when I do need to clarify, when I said that getting in trouble thing,

I was talking about legally.

When I said about being truthful,

redacted, so these things that you initialed,

can you date them also?

Because the first set doesn't have a date on them.

There's no dates next to where initials on there.

Question, do you care if it has a date?

I don't want her to have to go through everything again.

She just wrote her initials.

Foy?

Yeah, it doesn't matter, especially if we're only meeting one time.

Question, okay, sure.

So just next to where you wrote your initials, do you mind just dating?

I don't know if there's a reason to provide this here.

Just read after that and she's done.

Question, were you aware?

Maybe subsequently, that redacted, wrote a memo, pretty much stating

that he was notified.

He was notified at 150 p.m.

That inmate Reyes was not coming back to MCC.

And he actually notified officer redacted, SOS,

redacted, and officer redacted,

that inmate needed, that a cellmate needed, to be assigned to Epstein.

Noelle, I'm not aware of that.

Question, did you ever get instructions like that?

Noelle, no.

Question, when you came on shift,

were there any instructions that came down about going in

and removing inmate Reyes belongings from a cell?

Noelle, no.

Question, if an inmate's removed,

let's say someone was going to WAB,

do you know what that is?

Noelle, yeah.

Question with all belongings.

Noelle, belongings.

Question, if an inmate, let's say, had to go to court,

and it was notified that the inmate is not coming back

and was being removed by WAB,

does an officer in the shoe have to go in and remove all the belongings?

Noelle, I don't know.

Because only, no, if the regular unit,

when they're going WAB, they bring their stuff.

Question,

they don't bring their stuff.

Noelle, no, they do.

Question, if they were,

but that if that person,

let's say that inmate,

wasn't notified that they're not coming back.

Noelle, oh, if it wasn't,

then yeah, the officer would go in and take it out.

Question, and there was no instruction for you guys to go and remove it.

Noelle, no.

Question, and I may have just missed this, but

do you not recall anyone coming in and retrieving Reyes belongings?

Noelle, no.

Question, no.

And would that have happened during your shift before 12?

Noelle, I don't know.

Question, if it was,

you just don't know anything about Reyes leaving.

Noelle, I don't know.

Question, yeah, I just gave them to her.

Anything else before we end this,

so that hopefully this will be a one and done.

Question, nothing else that we should talk about,

that we missed, that we can handle now,

rather than having to circle back.

Boy, nothing I can think of out the top of my head.

Question,

we're trying to cover a lot.

So, boy, yeah, I'm at the end.

Question, yep, from the union,

is there anything that you can think of that should be discussing?

Union rep.

If OIG really wants to know

what led up to the death of Mr. Epstein,

I think that there needs to be a thorough investigation

of the Metropolitan Correctional Center and its pitfalls.

I'll just, you know, kind of leave it at that,

and I'm sure you're going a little bit of insight

into what the MCC is, not just staffing,

but conditions for inmates as well.

It felt a new employee.

Yes, there are some things that she absolutely should be taking responsibility for,

but what led up to the unfortunate death of Mr. Epstein

wasn't just August 9th and August 10th.

Question, referring to the fact that she was trained

on people not conducting rounds and counts?

Union rep, it's a cultural issue at MCC New York,

falsifying of documents to pass program reviews,

inadequate training of employees.

Employees may go through and I have training,

but most of the training is three weeks or so.

Most of the time, you'll find yourself sitting down

in the training center, I believe,

because they don't have someone to actually train you,

but they'll tell you sign the training sheets,

so if something like this comes up,

it implies that the employee received the training.

When actually I was present to receive the training,

but nobody taught me.

The same thing is, you know, for annual refresher training,

there's a cultural issue at the MCC.

Is it agency-wide?

I don't know.

I've only been at MCC New York, but there are some pitfalls.

There have been inmates that prior to Mr. Epstein,

and since Mr. Epstein,

and I believe the inadequate managing of the build-up

plays a big role in those deaths.

Assaults of staff and inmates,

and you guys, I guarantee you've seen it.

I'm sure there's something you've seen that you're like,

wow, that's a little bit crazy.

That just seems very egregious.

It's because it's not being run the correct way.

It's failing staff and inmates every day.

Question, well, thank you for that.

On that note, I know we talked to you,

and how you observed other staff members,

pretty much conducting the round sheets,

the way they did,

as well as a supervisor who told you to sign the training

that you never actually attended.

Can you think of anything else that you were asked to do

like that from anyone,

or observed anyone else,

as like training or an experience that was now

that you're thinking back on it wrong?

Well, no.

I mean, I haven't really been there that long.

So the only thing I could recall

was Lieutenant Redacted was, oh,

I think when I was on my probationary here,

like I was supposed to get reviewed,

like every quarter,

like to get I get off probation,

I've only got it one time.

I think it's supposed to be done three times.

I've only got it one time.

Question, and where you asked to sign on a quarterly basis

that you received the evaluation?

No, well, I know I signed it one time that I got it,

but I never got the other two.

Question, but you didn't actually ask to sign something?

No, well, no.

No one asked me to sign anything.

Question, is there an instance that you can think of

that you like needed to sign for something

that you thought,

oh, I shouldn't sign for that.

I didn't take this training.

I didn't conduct these rounds.

Is there something else like that

that you can think of that's happened

while you were at the MCC?

No, well, I mean, like for example,

like I said in IF Training,

there's a roster with a whole bunch of stuff

that we're signing next to,

but let's like say, Lieutenant,

so and so is supposed to teach that class

and they didn't show up.

But I already signed that.

I received it,

but I didn't get the actual training.

So I'm signing that I'm present

and I'm here for the training,

but I didn't actually get it.

So you're showing up for the training

and they're actually not conducting it

and they're certifying that they're conducting the training.

No, well, yeah,

there were for a couple of training that we didn't get

because there was nobody there to teach the class.

Question and they certified that.

They actually did it.

No, well, yeah.

I just remember that I was in IF.

They would tell me stuff.

But I never walked.

You're supposed to get a tour of the building

for when you sit in training

and in the shoe blah, blah, blah,

you have a visual.

They never even did that.

Like they would explain like

when you say down range,

you have to just imagine what's down range

because I've never been in the jail and I didn't know.

I'm saying that to say like training is not

you guys probably look at,

oh, I signed or you're saying this training or that,

she should know this.

But I don't actually necessarily have to know it

because it wasn't like taught.

And if I kind of learn as you go along,

that's why I said like it's wrong.

But I tried to mimic or follow what I see.

Other people do.

And yes, I've exercised poor judgment on things.

But sometimes you ask people

and they tell you the wrong thing.

That's MCC.

So even if I don't know and I call and say,

hey, how do you do this?

They'd be like, oh, just do this.

Question and what do you do now that you've experienced this?

What do you blame that on?

Do you blame it on like poor management

or like lack of manpower?

What are your thoughts on that?

Well, it's both.

But every time something happens,

the officer is getting trouble.

And the problem is that it starts from the top.

Because if my supervisor is telling me to falsify documents

and I do it, I'm in trouble.

But Lieutenant Redacted got promoted.

You understand?

Like the problem starts from the top.

And it comes all the way down.

It's not being managed correctly.

And the manpower is also not there.

Like you can't take somebody and tell them to work 16 hours.

And remember, it's a thing where I'm on probation.

So I can't say no, I'm not working it.

So you ask me to work 16 hours every day.

I'm a human being, not a robot.

I fell asleep plenty of times going home.

I come to work.

I remember one time,

called the lieutenant's office.

Like, can't keep my eyes open.

Because that's just the reality of it.

But the time you go home, it's time for you.

Some people don't even go home.

They try to sleep in the locker room.

Because manpower is not there.

And it's absolutely ridiculous.

For me, I started in June of 2018.

The indictment said 2016.

That's not true.

To December, that's only six months.

And I made my base pay because all of that's over time.

Question.

Okay, thank you.

That's all great insight.

Anything else we want to add?

No, well, nothing from me.

Boy, the only thing I can think of,

which you kind of alluded to,

is that it feels like as a new employee,

the culture, the friendliness, or lack thereof,

the fact that in a way,

your trust in your colleagues,

is undermined through your colleagues, right?

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I mean, which makes it a difficult thing.

I mean, if you want to talk about that part of it, right?

Because it's all related.

It's not just one thing.

So I mean, if you want to speak

on it, this would be the time to say it.

Your experience of what it is a friendly experience.

Did you feel supported by your colleagues?

No, well, no.

Boy, right?

Did you like it there?

No, well, oh, no.

Absolutely not.

Absolutely not.

I was actually trying to,

like from the moment I started there,

I didn't like it there.

And I was trying to get out of there.

But I'm not going to quit a job and go sit at home.

So the atmosphere was like to me.

I didn't feel safe.

Because if you don't have enough people to work the units

and something happens and you had a body alarm

who's responding.

If there's nobody there, so that's the problem in itself.

There's been times where you got one officer working

two units.

So what if somebody died on the other unit

and the officer is on the other unit?

But there's been and that's all not supposed to happen.

But like I said,

it's okay because nobody died.

Nothing happened.

But then something happens.

Then that officer working the two units gets in trouble.

Not the lieutenant.

That said, hey, I'm assigning you to work these two units.

And yes, we know that we're not supposed to work two units.

But again, I don't feel like I can override my lieutenant

or I can override the senior officer

because the instruction that's being passed on

from the top is not correct.

But who am I going to tell?

Because everybody in that building

knows from the warden all the way down,

knows we don't have enough people.

We don't have enough.

From day one, I entered that building.

That's all I've been hearing.

We don't have enough people.

We don't have enough people.

People get hurt

because there's not enough staff

to respond to certain things.

Like when I'm out on a unit

and inmates are fighting,

like if the inmates really wanted to take over

and harm you, they could have.

And then who's responding fast enough

because you hit the body alarm,

sometimes only three people come.

Question.

So with all this in mind,

is there anything that you can think of

as a way to rectify the issues?

Well, they need staffing.

And I don't know if people don't say that they're

like the culture of the MCC,

it just needs to start over like it needs to be cleaned out

and start over.

The people need to follow the rules

and reinforce and show people the correct things.

Then maybe, maybe it could get somewhere.

But when you have new people coming in

and were taught bad and again,

yes, I could sit and read an employee handbook.

Sometimes you read stuff in the context

like I'm not in a camp in a high rise.

So the context of what you're reading

in an employee book refers to like,

you know, those types of institutions and not MCC.

So sometimes you try to put it into perspective.

Question.

So you keep saying camp.

Do you mean like an FCI or a penitentiary?

No, well, yeah.

Question.

Or are you talking about?

No, well, yes.

Versus high rise building.

So it's the procedure are a little bit different.

So that's why I rely on the people inside to teach me.

And you'll always hear that this being said,

there's the BOP way and there's the MCC way.

Because at MCC, they do it their way.

Question, okay, good to know.

No, well, and again, because I don't know,

because they probably don't give you the roster.

Every single time that I come to work,

I've called to switch with somebody else

because I don't want to work shoe.

Because I don't know how to work the shoe.

And it's very annoying that you have to keep having to ask somebody.

There's plenty of times that I called across like somebody

working nine north like, hey, you want to switch with me?

And I switch because on a regular housing unit,

I know what I'm doing.

And in the shoe, I don't know what I'm doing.

And I've even told usually they put probationary staff

to work in the shoe, but again, because the seniority,

that's all that they have available.

So that's what I get.

Question, okay, so anything on that?

Another investigator asked, do you recall any specific

instance of policy violation by staff

or any other actions you can bring into question

about other staff members at MCC, any specific instances?

Noel, no question.

By foie, you're talking about like contraband?

Anything, anything overall answer?

Noel, I mean, it comes in some question.

I think what he means more along the lines though,

like supervisor directed you to falsify a record.

Like, that's pretty big.

If they're telling you sign this because you need to take quarterly

shoe training, anything else like that.

Noel, I mean one time, I got a drop note that said,

an inmate wanted to rate me and I forwarded the email

to the lieutenant and I never got a call back.

And I called in and I said because that inmate is still on the unit.

So if the inmate really wanted to rate me,

then I guess he would have.

So I called and I said like, did you get my email?

And she was like, yeah, I got it,

but that inmate ain't going to do nothing to you.

There are type of things that happen at MCC.

How do you know the inmate's not going to do anything to me?

What you should have did was remove me from the unit

or remove that inmate, but that wasn't done.

Inmates have threatened me and they're supposed to remove them

out of the building and they don't.

Inmates have threatened me and have sent them to the shoe

and they'll release them and then they'll come right back to my unit.

So again, it's like who are you telling or complaining to at MCC?

Because from the top, there's no help.

And I'm literally at the bottom.

I was the last officer at the time.

Question now, do you know of indesernable corrupt officers

like bringing in contraband?

Is that like a problem at MCC?

No, well, it's a problem, but I don't know who brings it in.

I just always wonder like, as far as smoking,

like they're smoking, all in the building.

I get headaches daily because of the smoking,

so it comes in some way.

But as far as who or how it comes in, I don't know.

Question, and I would think that it's kind of easy

to identify who is smoking, correct?

Noelle, you'll be sitting in your officer station

and you smell smoke.

So by the time I get it out, they always have a watch person.

So by the time I feel like, okay, I smell it, it's coming from here.

Let me go walk the tear this way.

You'll be like, oh, there she's coming.

So they already done.

Question now, what are you smelling?

What kind of smoke is it marijuana?

Noelle K2, question K2, noelle K2.

Question, and can you, you know, the distinct smell of K2?

Noelle, yeah.

Question, was this on the shoe also?

Noelle, yes, question.

It's the entire building, and you know, I would welcome, right?

If OIG said, we want to tour the institution.

And judges do, attorneys do, law clerks do, right?

Because it gives you a little bit,

you can actually put a visual beside seeing the photos.

You can get a visual.

You actually get to see what it is to be an employee there,

or even an inmate there.

And the drug problem is absolutely rampant.

The institution has no control over it, right?

So it boils down to that employee saying, okay,

if you guys don't stop smoking,

I'm locking everybody behind the door because it's making me sick.

Or it's that kind of thing,

like they're not holding inmates responsible for incident reports.

None of that stuff is happening.

And it just makes it a very bad place to work.

And it makes it a poor place for new employees.

And I say that wholeheartedly understanding

that there is some onus on Miss Noel.

There's just some things that as an adult,

you have to say I take responsibility for.

I don't think she's ever come out

of taking that responsibility.

But the MCC, New York failed Miss Noel, Mr. Thomas,

and Mr. Epstein,

regardless of what he was in jail for.

I don't believe anybody deserves a loss of life

behind the walls of a jail, especially in that manner, right?

And there's just so many things.

So when you ask questions to Miss Noel,

such as, are there any instances of falsifying documents?

You're not going to say to me,

but I guarantee you that in reviewing

rosters and training records,

I'm sure you guys have questionable discrepancies.

I'm sure you've caught rosters not reflecting what video show.

I'm sure you've caught employees on rosters,

not on rosters but attending training.

But the rosters say they're on sick leave or annual leave.

I would bet my next low paycheck that the absolute

to what you guys have probably seen

or experience investigating this whole thing.

I would like to hope that the death of an inmate

leads to some change, but gets cut off. Sure.

Well, part of that has to do with that.

We had to wait to interview.

But yeah, question.

It's just made me think of something.

I just want to make sure just going back

like we're talking about to make sure that we've got like

as truthful a statement as possible

with regard to August 9th 10 p.m.

Talking about video and things like that,

when you're a member, although the count number was wrong,

did you do the count from the outside grill

or did you actually walk down the range?

Well, I walked down the range.

And I know like, for example,

like in redacted statement, he probably was like,

I don't know if she did the count

or I'm going to say she didn't do the count

because it needed to be done with me

and I was like sleeping.

He was sleeping.

So I don't know if he did the count.

Question.

I'm just trying to reconcile the review of the video.

No, well, but no, because I saw a lot of stuff

even in the indictment.

There's a lot of things in there that's not true.

Like the one thing I know I did do was a 10 o'clock count question.

But you just don't know how they reconcile the fact

that the numbers are off.

No, well, but the count.

I did do it.

Question was that just again?

That's going to be one of those big things.

That's like, well, how do we,

if you're saying that you did the count

and the numbers are wrong?

We're going to have to review the video

and Noel cuts them off.

What happened between like the 73 and 72

and the phone call and what was said again?

But I did the count.

Question.

Okay, anything else?

Well, I just want to thank you also very much

for the cooperation and to the union.

I want to kind of apologize for the initial interaction.

Question.

I think now talking with you, I think that you're actually

I was maybe misunderstanding.

Maybe what you were doing.

I just wanted to make sure that we weren't going to be stopping

this interview every time there was a question.

But you were extremely helpful.

So thank you for your participation.

And that my friends is the end

of the Tova Noel interview with the OIG inspectors.

All of the information that goes with this episode

can be found in the description box.

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