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What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles.
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In this episode we're going to pick up, where we left off, with the Tova Noel interview
1:54
with the OIG inspectors.
1:58
That you're actually checking every door, Noel yeah, question.
2:03
And when you give that one person toilet paper or whatever, you're actually looking at
2:07
all the different doors.
2:08
Boy, can we take a break real quick?
2:11
Because I need to take a break.
2:14
All right, so they come back from the break and they dive right back in.
2:19
All right, is there anything that we wanted to revise before we continue?
2:23
Boy yeah, I wanted to go back.
2:25
This was from earlier about the double door, how they operate.
2:29
Boy, inaccuracies on that.
2:33
Boy, that we clarified.
2:34
So let's start with that first.
2:36
Noel, the outer door control pops the outer door.
2:39
I control the inner door.
2:41
So the outer door can only be opened by control.
2:45
Okay, so we're talking about like popping.
2:48
It was just your memory was foggy.
2:50
Noel, I don't remember a lot of stuff, but yeah, the outer door.
2:54
You have to call control to pop the 27 door and we control the inner door.
3:00
And then just while we're going back, it's something I was probably going to follow
3:04
up on later, but there's been a ton of questions of like you don't know.
3:09
Question or answer, Noel, yeah, question.
3:12
I just want to remind you, you did go to federal law enforcement training center.
3:16
Noel, yeah, where you were trained as a correctional officer and you also received this
3:21
I have training, which I think you said was like two weeks in house training.
3:26
Noel, yeah, question is that what it was as well as you received the annual training
3:32
and all this stuff that we're talking about isn't like the real detailed stuff.
3:37
This is like, you know, conducting rounds and counts and the essential duties as a correctional
3:42
So I'm assuming you is it safe to assume that you've received this training, you know
3:46
during those trainings, I know you didn't go to the shoe trainings, but not too far from
3:52
when this happened, you were only on for a little over a year and you conducted all three
3:57
of those trainings, correct?
3:59
Noel, I was only on for a little under a year, the training that I received in Georgia
4:04
in specific to camps and not necessarily high rises.
4:08
And the in house training, the roster reflects all these trainings that we didn't actually
4:12
receive all the training because sometimes there was nobody to train us.
4:17
Question, okay, Noel, so when I say I don't know, I don't know, question, yeah, no, it's
4:24
just almost every question.
4:25
I feel like we've gone through 18 pages so far and so many of them are like, I don't
4:32
Noel, I really don't know.
4:35
It's just because, you know, people are going to say like, well, you went all these trainings,
4:39
you should know at least some of this stuff.
4:41
So I just wanted to try to get you to like think back on your training.
4:45
Noel, uh-huh, question and your duties and your responsibilities when I'm making these
4:50
questions just so you can really like think, do I really now know or is that, you know,
4:57
did I know that these things should be done?
5:00
Does that make sense?
5:04
Question, can I say just to clarify, I know you might not have received some of the official
5:10
trainings, some of this stuff you might learn along the way.
5:13
Mr. Well, uh-huh, question from your deli duties, Noel, right?
5:19
Question like it's repetitive, some of the stuff that you do.
5:22
So you might have known this based on the fact that you've done it on a deli basis.
5:27
So if you say I don't know and you actually done it as part of your deli duties, it kind
5:31
of contradicts each other.
5:33
Just Noel, I understand question and I just had a question.
5:38
You mentioned the door.
5:39
Was it at any point in time on the 9th, 10th or was there a practice to ever leave the
5:44
doors, propped open in the shoe?
5:50
I think my last question, I just want to revisit it just to make sure that we're of the
5:56
So again, when you're pre-populating all these rounds, correct?
6:00
Noel, correct question.
6:02
But you're saying you believe you did more than 50% of the rounds that were listed?
6:07
Noel, I can't give you a percentage because I don't know how to put a percentage to
6:13
a round, but I can tell you that I conducted rounds as I went to go do something, but
6:18
I can't give you a number.
6:20
Question and I want to make sure that we understand too.
6:23
If you're going down range to give some inmate like toilet paper or something that you're
6:27
also at that time where you're saying you did around, not just talking about that
6:32
tear, but all six tears.
6:37
So you're going down to give somebody toilet paper and at that point, he gets cut off
6:41
by Noel because I'm giving toilet paper to everybody.
6:46
So you're not just addressing one inmate.
6:50
You're saying when you're giving everybody toilet paper?
6:57
When I'm giving food, I give everybody food.
7:00
When I'm collecting trays, I'm collecting all the trays.
7:03
I'm giving toilet paper.
7:06
So aside from the times, you're now giving toilet paper and giving food and collecting
7:10
trays, which are a handful of those times granted.
7:13
Are you doing any other rounds?
7:17
And if somebody calls.
7:19
She gets cut off on August 9th.
7:21
We're talking about Noel on the 9th.
7:24
If somebody calls and asks for something, yeah, I can ducked around.
7:28
Question and that's kind of what I'm getting at.
7:30
If you're handling one specific inmate because they called and asked for something, you're
7:35
then also addressing the other five tiers.
7:40
Noel, because usually when one calls, everybody else hears and everybody wants something.
7:48
So on August 9th, you didn't conduct all the documented rounds.
7:53
But you did do some of them.
7:56
And you don't have a number.
8:06
To this, Foy interjects.
8:07
But I think the clear point is when she did it, it's not based on the times on the paper.
8:15
So that doesn't match.
8:16
The time she did it versus the time on the paper.
8:19
Because that paper is done at the beginning of the shift, with the time already selected.
8:25
Oh, are you filling out the entire paper at the beginning of the shift?
8:29
Oh, so you're not doing it every 30 minutes, just pre-populating before you do the round.
8:37
You're going at the very beginning of the shift, filling everything out.
8:43
So that, when did you fill out the August 9th round sheet?
8:46
Noel, like how the numbers are like the round sheets before, like the times.
8:50
So I just fill it out, because that's what I've seen being done.
8:54
Like it's filled out before or sometimes at the end after.
8:57
So I fill it out all before.
9:02
So you pre-populated that entire thing at the very beginning of your shift.
9:06
And then you just conducted the rounds as needed.
9:12
And you've seen people do this?
9:15
Who else have you seen do that?
9:17
I mean, I don't have a specific name, but I've seen it done.
9:21
Did anyone ever tell you to do that?
9:24
Noel, this is actually, I think, the first time I've ever done the round sheets because
9:28
I've never actually done the round sheets in the shoe.
9:30
But those two days were the days that I've done the round sheets in the shoe.
9:36
So if this was your first time doing a round sheet, did someone instruct you on how to
9:42
Because I just followed what I've seen.
9:44
But I've worked with people before that we're filling it out.
9:47
And that's how it's been done.
9:50
And did you have discussions with them?
9:53
I never had a discussion about it.
9:56
So you just observed people doing this.
10:00
But no one ever told you to do that?
10:03
And did you know that it was wrong to do that?
10:08
You didn't know that it was wrong.
10:09
To pre-populate the rounds, you conducted when you weren't conducting those rounds.
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I mean, if I'm putting the time on there, saying that I conducted the round at this time,
12:16
and I didn't conduct the round at this time, that's wrong.
12:19
But I didn't think it was wrong to just fill it all out, or after, because that's how they do it.
12:25
Question? So that's a contradicting statement.
12:28
You know that it's not right to conduct the round at the time that you conducted it,
12:32
but you didn't know that it was wrong to indecernable?
12:35
Boy, she knows that now, but this is the way it was done.
12:40
Boy, she followed, but like when you look at the policy, and now that we're here,
12:45
and we've had discussions, okay, that's not how it's supposed to work.
12:49
Question, but at the time, that you're filling this out on August 9th at the beginning of your shift,
12:55
saying that you conducted these rounds at a time that they weren't conducted yet.
12:59
You had to know that it wasn't, maybe you saw people doing the wrong thing,
13:03
but you couldn't have possibly thought that that was correct.
13:06
Noelle? Well, I, she gets cut off, because you're falsely certifying that rounds are completed
13:12
when you didn't. There's times even that they're events in the future. Noelle, I understand,
13:18
but I didn't know that. I just followed whatever I saw that was being done.
13:23
Question? I absolutely understand that defense that you said other people have done this,
13:27
and you're following their guidance, but you can't possibly think that it's okay to fill out
13:32
certifications, saying that you conducted rounds in the future, that haven't even taken place,
13:37
and that you've actually didn't do at the same time. Is that something being lost in translation?
13:41
Do you follow what I'm asking you? Did you think it's okay to sign on the round sheet that you
13:47
conducted a time, conducted around? Noelle? But it's the same thing. As the end, like if I do it all
13:55
at the end, at the times that I'm putting, I'm not going to remember all these times specifically.
14:01
Question? Absolutely. I would also argue that at any time you're falsifying a record,
14:05
you always know that that's wrong. Noelle, so but I mean question. So I understand what you're
14:11
saying, that other people do it, and that's why I want to get into who else is doing this.
14:16
Who trained you on this? How do you know that this was the way that things are done?
14:22
So that's where my question of who talked to you about it. You said no one actually spoke to you
14:27
about this. Noelle cuts them off. No, I just seen people do it. Question? Observe people.
14:34
So who did you? Noelle cuts them off? Because I never had. He picks up, observe, do that.
14:40
Noelle, I never had a conversation with anyone about filling out the round sheets.
14:45
Question right. So if that's going to be the argument that you're doing it based upon your
14:50
training and experience, I need to know more about this training and experience.
14:54
Who is it that you experience? Do this in the past. Noelle, people that I've worked with question.
15:01
So I'd like to think about all right. I know this because I saw that person do it. Who?
15:07
Noelle, I'm redacted question. So you've witnessed redacted over a populate or at the end of the
15:13
shift. Noelle, I don't remember exactly, but it's done either or the way question. All right.
15:19
So you saw redacted and who else? Noelle, redacted. Question redacted. Is that the SOS? Noelle, no.
15:26
Question. Noa, different redacted. What is redacted a gentleman's name? Noelle, yes. Question.
15:33
What's the person's first name? Noelle, I don't know the first name. Question. Who worked in the
15:39
shoe? Noelle, yes. Question. You mentioned redacted before. Is it redacted? Noelle, yes. Question,
15:46
okay. Say that again. Noelle, redacted. Question. It's like indesernable. Boy, it's a first or
15:53
last name. Question. Is it the first or last name? Noelle, redacted. Boy, redacted. Noelle, yes.
16:02
Boy, redacted. Noelle, uh-huh. Question. Anyone else aside from those three people? Noelle,
16:09
I never seen redacted. Question. All right. So in the recollections of the three people that you named,
16:16
what did you observe them do? Miss Noelle, fill it out after or fill it out before. Question.
16:21
And was that on numerous occasions? Noelle, yes. All right. So we're going to wrap up right here.
16:28
And in the next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off. All the information that goes
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