Is Gentle Parenting Spoiling Our Kids? Experts Say There’s A Better Way,  It’s Called “The Aquarium Approach

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with the Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a bookshelf and you're a for-you-page or equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and pop culture. With your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed.

1:00Listen to pro society on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman, Angel Jaretana. Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the artist on artist on artist on artist podcast. The improvised character comedy podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. It's right up next to the microphone. I hear you get the elbows here, the eyelashes hit each other. You're never seen it least so quiet. As when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artist on artist on artist every Thursday on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Self-cars of timber is your reminder to slow down, check in with yourself, get off your phone, and maybe ask why am I like this? I'm James Beak, host of the Psychology of your 20s podcast. And this month we're helping you make sense of the person that you are becoming

2:02from setting boundaries and navigating friendships to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships, and attachment. Sometimes our biggest decisions, without us even realizing it, aren't driven by what we truly want but by what will prevent us from feeling lonely or being alone. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So like by Asia Rather and our soul at least 70% have a phone. I'm Dr. Joy and this is Therophy for Black Girls. We spend our surviving middle school run getting into what's happening inside your kids' brain, the group chat, and their friendships, and what you can do about it. Your child is not doing this on purpose. That's the kind of perspective we've been pulling from the psychologists and psychiatrists who study this for a living. Listen to Therophy for Black Girls on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

3:07Hey, the folks, it is Saturday, September 12th. It sounds so lovely. Gentle parenting. Who wouldn't want to be a gentle parent? What kid wouldn't want a gentle parent? Well, if you're one, you are screwing up your kid. And with that, welcome to this episode of AB&TJ. As we continue on this relationship Saturday, if you've checked out our feed, we started this morning rope talking about beige flags and relationships. We followed that up with talking about public relationships. Oh, excuse me, public breakups and asking for divorces via Instagram. Both of those are on our feed just before this story. Be sure to check that one out, but Robes, you're bringing another one to me. And this is something we've been talking about quite a bit lately. Yes, so this was so interesting. We actually had dinner with a friend of yours who was complaining about watching his grandchild being raised in a very different way than he raised his child and how many of us were raised.

4:08And he has, I think he even said like my grandchild's becoming a spoiled whatever. I don't know if he put a label on it, but a lot of people would say spoiled brat. And so we were having this funny conversation about how we were raised and how we were trying to raise our kids and how this new generation of kids has a very different mindset. And yes, it's oftentimes called gentle parenting. So we're having this conversation. And I pulled up the New York Times and they had an entire article on this because yes, a grandfather wrote in saying, what am I supposed to do? I am watching. This was his stepdaughter ruin my grandchild's life. Okay, first, is that the actual official title of it? It's called gentle parenting. Gentle parenting. Okay, um, a couple more questions here. I need to know or ask, do you have an actual definition? Can you define it best again for me? Uh, so, so here's how they put it.

5:08They say that there is, um, there are three different ways to approach. Here's the problem. Here's the scenario. This is what they get a child's waiting in line at an ice cream truck at the park. And before it's her turn, the treat that she wants is sold out. A parent's response to their child indicates their child rearing style. So either you have a fish bowl approach, you have an ocean approach or an aquarium approach. Okay, let me help me here. So my kid is at ice cream truck. They run out of the thing to being once. Yes. Okay. She, imagine she's younger, like maybe say she's five or under and she throws starts to throw a fit. Okay. Okay. So my reaction to her, let me know what category I've fallen. Well, that's all come sure they'll have it next time. Sure there's nothing else you want. You don't have to, but, um, but yeah, next time maybe we'll get here a little earlier. Maybe they just won't run out. But, uh, if you want anything else cool, it's not on stand. Babe, you nailed it. I just got chills because you just did the aquarium approach.

6:10And that is the approach that the parenting experts say is the right way to do it. And you know what? I did the fish bowl approach and that's more of the authoritarian. And then the general parenting is more of the ocean approach and you did the aquarium approach. Let me explain. So your approach that you just described is what parenting experts actually recommend. It's called the aquarium approach. This is what they say you would say in response. That's a bummer. And I know you love that flavor. Maybe next time we can get in line earlier, let's pick something else. What else looks good? Oh my god. That's like literally what you said. The aquarium approach takes the leadership of the fish bowl approach and combines it with the respect and compassion of the ocean approach. And this combination makes children feel both confident and safe. You nailed it. I told you I have watched you as a being and I am so impressed with how you handle her and how you've handled her moods, how you've handled her. Even disrespect and she's not a disrespectful kid. But on the rare occasion, she acts up and she hardly ever does.

7:12And she probably doesn't because of how you have parented her. And I actually read this and thought, holy hell. That's how TJ parents and you just literally almost said it word for word. Okay, here's the gentle parenting approach to that same scenario. Oh no, this is so hard. Can you tell me what you're feeling? Are you mad? Are you sad? Let's talk about your mad and sad feelings. I have seen. I watched a parent do this. I told you and I told you and your friend in our conversation at a restaurant. Last week, a kid was screaming because he wanted something that the mom couldn't give. She got down and knelt and right in his face in front of all of us in this restaurant who were trying to eat and he is continuing to scream. She was like, what do you need, sweetie? I see you're really frustrated. Why are you so frustrated right now? How can mom help? Was I not there? No, I was with Nikki and I was about to blow a gasket and the kid did not calm down. The kid kept screaming and it went on far too long and I wanted to go over there and give the kid a spanking.

8:13What is that called? Gentle parenting. But no, the it's leaning into their emotions and validating their feelings at all costs. Well, I'm going back to the Aquaria. Been the fish bowl and the something. Does that fall into one of those categories? The ocean of this is this is the gentle parent is the ocean. That's the ocean approach. Basically, so they say a lot of times these are parents who grew up the way we grew up. And they try to create an open, flexible household for their children, but they take it too far. Every interaction is thoroughly discussed and they lean way too much into their children's feelings. But it deprives the child of moving through their feelings in a productive way. It lets them actually over indulge in the emotions and you're like in an effort to validate your kids feelings. You let you turn them into spoiled breaths who are screaming because by the way when they're upset, you're leaning into that. It's okay to feel that way and you validate their feelings. I believe that is what your friend was describing watching his granddaughter just constantly being validated for their emotions.

9:19This gentle parenting is like it's turning the kid into a spoiled brat. Okay, what is the other side to that? I am sure there's got to be some child therapists out there, some parenting expert who is promoting this. Yes. Talk to your kids about how they feel. Talk to them through it. Let them sit and let them know their emotions are okay. I don't know the other side to that. The other side to that is the way you and I were raised. And honestly, probably the way I raised my kids more so than most, and that's the fish bowl approach. So your same scenario, kids upset, they don't have the ice cream treat that she wanted. Stop pouting. If you pout, you're not going to get any ice cream and relieving the park. That's probably what I would have said. That's mean parenting. I know. But it was kind of like eating it and shut up or deal with it or buck up robot or look, and I think a lot of, I mean, that's how I was raised. I kind of a tough love approach where you're going to learn discipline. You're going to control your emotions right now or relieving.

10:19Very German. Yes. And I'm sure that is maybe. Yes, maybe. And that's how I was raised. I have left. I didn't have to do it often, but Eva was a, she's a big personality. And I said, if you do this again, you know, we are leaving. She did it again. Now I have to leave. So boom, I have left a restaurant. I have left a dentist office. And I have left a shopping mall. I have three specific moments where I remember I was very strict. She, she did it again. And we, I had to leave. Then she's screaming and crying. I had to put her in time out for 45 minutes. Obviously what I was doing was not affected. But I thought it was what was effective because it's what I knew. And what they say is this is an authoritarian style of parenting. And yes, you might get results short term. The child obeys, but out of fear. And not because they're learning a lesson. This leaves the child feeling dismissed and shamed for having a normal feeling of disappointment. And these children might also grow up to struggle to develop skills needed to self-regulate and make good choices because they relied on others to manage their behavior.

11:22This like sent a light bulb off on me. And I've actually talked to the girls and like, have I, that I not validate your feelings? I always tried to do it a little bit, but my, my go to was to be an authoritarian, to be strict, to be the disciplinarian. I tried to show a little love, but I also didn't want to make my kids soft, spoiled breaths. That was what was in my head. So it's so interesting. And so a lot of people they say who were raised with this fish bowl approach, didn't want to do that to their kids, but they go to the other extreme to this gentle parenting, to this ocean approach where you just all you do is validate their feelings and allow them to explore their feelings. I'm trying to find the good in that. What, what you're saying sounds pleasant. Okay, it is upset. Let's explore your feelings. I want to talk to you about you, how you're feeling. I guess that's... You're not giving them tools to move through their feelings in a productive way. I thought that was so well put. That is exactly what the issue is. I have to sit with it. I, you, we were, where were we?

12:24I think about a thing I did with Sabine that jumped out. She, we, three of us were at dinner. This was in Turks. It begins, the old Genserville place. Wasn't they about that now? Yes, yes. I know exactly what you're talking about. But we were at dinner and she was, had a little attitude where it was going on. And I said, baby, you're welcome to feel how you feel. But you're not going to be allowed to sit here and be rude at dinner. I said, if you want, I offered. I will put you in an Uber and take you back to our house. And then Robock and I are going to continue our dinner here. It's your call. I gave her that agency. I said, yes, you can feel what you want to feel, but it doesn't give you permission to actually sit here and being an asshole to everybody else. And I remember you looked at me like, what the hell is going on here? And... But you didn't say it in a mean way. Oh, no. You didn't say it in a threatening way. You weren't angry. You actually were very matter of fact and supportive. I was blown away. And you know what she did? She said, no, I'll stay. And within two to three minutes, she turned it around. And I don't know where that comes from.

13:25You see how I... I was so impressed. But I just, I don't know. I didn't study aquarium, whatever. So I don't know where that comes from. And I don't remember having that as a kid. I don't remember growing up in my parents. Certainly, they didn't ask me about my feelings. I'm 49. They still haven't asked me about my feelings. Did you have... Did you have more of a German style of parenting? I'm laughing. It's not German style. I guess it's called the fishbowl approach. Just respect for authority. That is my parent. Yeah. When they say do something, I know to do it. And it wasn't beyond that. So yeah, I don't... I never found them to be the fishbowl thing either. So it's funny. This is the metaphor they say. So children get stunted and official, meaning like they don't trust their own feelings. They don't trust even their own decision making at times because they've been told what to do for so long. They say children get lost in a notion. If it's just lean into your emotions. Like, okay, now what? You're just... It's too much about emotions.

14:26And they say, but they flourish in an aquarium. And that's the metaphor. Children get lost in a notion. They get stunted and official. And they flourish in an aquarium. And so that's a way to remember it. I have never heard it put like that. And I just thought that was such unbelievably good advice that I wish I had had when I was raising my kids. I do ask them all the time. I'm like, I do try to listen to their feelings. And I do appreciate the fact that they will stand up to me. And they will say things to me in a way that I would never have done or said to my parents ever. Maybe too much. You're laughing. You're smiling. But it's one of those things where it's a needle to thread for folks who didn't have that imprinting. And then to know how to try and do your best with kids. Okay, so say you've already raised your kids like me. And now you're dealing with potential grandkids. Or you are. You do have grandkids in your life. What do you do when you see your child doing this ocean?

15:29This ocean type of parenting, this gentle parenting. We've got tips for you too after the break. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived. And I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart. And these are the survivor files. You just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed. And I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

16:32Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a bookshelf and you're a for-you-page or equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, and that is the Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

17:33Listen to Pro's Society on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Hi, this is Kylie Breikman, Angel Jaretana. Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the artists on artists on artists on artists podcast. The improvised character comedy podcast, where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is foe journal. I don't know, have you guys heard of foe journaling? Yeah, it's reading, it's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay, a panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry, I'm seeing a reading of Sudako in the Thousand Paper Cranes by Auderman Donalds at the Wonderland Bookstore, 14. That's crazy, I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark Thirty. No way! Patrick of the last bookstore though, Kim Kertroll is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday.

18:35A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. It's right up next to the microphone. I hear you get the elbows here, the eyelashes hate each other. You never seen it least so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on the IHERD radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. By azer rather than a sell, at least 70% have a phone. Middle school is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy and this is therapy for Black Girl. We spent real time on it in our surviving Middle School run. Bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two Black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. So it's literally physiological and neurological, air psychological chaos, I think all of this seemed off. We got into group chats and gaming, friendship and bullying, and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust.

19:36There's belonging, you could think of belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in. Spitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapists, cure games on Black Fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. You don't have more shorts so you can't do flips. You have one to dress up across your legs. That's the range of this run. From screen time to identity to the fathers doing the work at home. You have to get off your device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as you're adult in the life to miss out on. This has been our surviving middle school run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to therapy for Black Girls on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Self-Case September is here, which means it's time to rethink what self-cane actually means. Yes, self-care can be a long walk. It can be an everything shower.

20:36It can be putting your phone on, do not disturb. But sometimes it's actually about sitting with the uncomfortable stuff. And understanding your patterns, your boundaries. Finally, figuring out why you keep doing things that you swore you would never do again. I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the Psychology of Your 20s podcast. And each week we unpack the psychology behind the experiences that shape your 20s. From relationships and friendships to money, anxiety, confidence, attachment. Just becoming more comfortable with who you are. Unlike the quarter-life crisis which is depicted as the collapse, the quarter-life reinvention is the expansion and the growth of something. When we develop the ability to be happy by ourselves, nobody else can take that from you. So this self-care September, don't just take care of yourself. Get to know yourself as well. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ.

21:37This is our Relationship Saturday. And this is about your relationship to your kids, to your grandkids. And it isn't always easy. They say, if you are the grandparent, you're watching your child, gentle parent, your grandchild, and turning your grandchild into a screaming, raving, little emotional, I hate to use the word brat, but I guess is there another way to put it? Monster. That's definitely what you do that all day. So it was really cool to see the advice this expert gave this grandfather. She said, the first thing you do, do not point out your differences. Like don't say, well, I would do it like this. Like you will never get a receptive audience from your child. And in this case, the one who, the person who wrote it, it was his stepdaughter. So it was even more of a, you didn't necessarily have that connection where she would just automatically trust that you had her best interest in heart. But they said what you can do is model the kind of parenting that you'd like your child to do. So your granddaughter actually might react to your parenting if you do it in the right way.

22:43Now she might think you're mean or criticizing her. Like she might not be receptive. So they say if you are friendly and non-combative, and that will make her more inclined to trust you and to be more receptive to your approach, you can't control how your child raises your grandchild obviously. But you can control how you show up in the family dynamics. So they say, if your granddaughter is pouting or throwing a fit, don't react to that. But instead redirect her and say, let's play a game and just get her out of that emotion. Just basically take her over to her. Still be warm, but don't react if she continues to reject you or continues to pout. Just be warm. I believe how old did he say the grandchild was? She's five years old. So, oh, excuse me. Nope. She's been a single mother for five years. She's like, what's this 10? Okay, so that's an older child.

23:43So they said, you can't go in and go hard and start disciplining the child that will never ever work as a grandparent. What you have to do is create a relationship where you're trusted or your warm and your kind, but you want reacting to the bad behavior. You're not inviting more bad behavior, you're not. you, oh, sweetie, what can I do? You don't, you just distract and you redirect. And then you just establish this type of warmth and I'm not going to put up with this type of behavior, but in a kind way. And how you do that is just say, let's go outside. Would you like to take a walk? And then when your daughter sees you really trying to create a bond with her child, she might be more receptive to seeing how you're doing. And honestly, me watching you and how you have handled Sabine, I see the trust, I see the warmth and that makes everyone feel more receptive to a different type of parenting. Is there any, is there a regional element to this?

24:44Is there some area of the country that might be more prone to gentle parenting? I didn't see that. And that's a good question. I'm just curious. They do say that this does tend to be this Gen Z generation. That is reacting to what most of us who are Gen Xers, I don't know where the millennials fall into this, but a lot of us were raised with more of an authoritarian parenting style. That was the thing to do in the 70s, maybe even in the 80s, where yes, tough love, discipline, that's how they were raised. They want you to be the best. They push you to get the good grades and to be achievers. Like that was, that was how we were raised. And you and I were raised fairly similarly. We had corporal punishment. We had that conversation around the table as well. I believe all of us who are in our 40s and 50s, all sitting at that table, all had been spanked. Every single one of us. I'm of us were whoops. Black white thing. And young as fangons, we got women's. Yeah, I guess it's just different way to say it,

25:46different way to describe it. But, but it's now, now those of us who are raised that way, are dealing with children who are raising their kids exceptionally different. And the point being there is a different way to do it. There's a middle ground. It sounds like we're all getting wrong, we're most important. Yeah, except for you. Well, generally, I don't know. I'm who you do the best you can and hope your kid comes out. Okay, that's kind of it. But works for me and my child might not work with somebody else in their child. But I have actually never seen it. I don't know something. I've seen out somewhere. I don't know anybody personally that I've seen raised their child like that. Gentile parenting to be that kind of. I have. Yeah, I've seen it. I have seen all of you. I won't name anyone, but I have seen plenty of my friends letting their children basically control and dominate all aspects of their life, all their conversations. Adults have to stop talking because the child comes back every three minutes demanding a new snack. And I'm about to lose my mind because I was the opposite of that.

26:46But I understand I have to respect that everyone chooses to raise their kids differently, but I can then choose not to be around those children. Don't bring them kids to my house. Raise them that way and you're home because they are causing a hell in my place. And I think everyone listening has a friend, a daughter, a sister, somebody who's raising their kids that way. And they are exceptionally difficult to be around. And I always say little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems. And so I just, I love this aquarium approach. That's a bummer. I know you love that flavor. Maybe next time we can get in line earlier, let's pick something else. What else looks good? Oh my God, I'm lashing. I gave that word for word. Almost. And you did not see this ahead of time. But a kid, the bottom line is kids need empathy, but they also need limits. And you have to be able to give them both. And you empower them by letting them choose to calm down and guiding them. You don't demand it. You don't threaten them with punishment.

27:47And that is what I believe I did. If you don't do this, we're leaving. If you don't do this, you're going to time out. And I did what I thought was effective at the time, but there were, there was a better way. There was a better way. There is a better way. They're the best you could. But I, I guess my idea is to always give the kid the option. Like you're upset. That's fine, but you're not going to be upset and ruin everybody else's day. You can go back to your room and be upset. I always give that space in that option for, I don't just say straight enough, you got to stay in here and stop looking at. See, and that's awesome. So you validated feelings, but then you also created limits. Yes. That is the key. And so yes, we can model that behavior with even our grandkids when we choose to do so, even if we didn't get it right with our kids. There's always the next time. That's why grandparents are so good. Right? Because they didn't screw it up once. We'll mess it up again. All right, hope this helps some of y'all out there. And with that, everyone, I'm Amy Robock alongside DJ Holmes.

28:48We'll talk soon. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the survivor files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a bookshelf and you're a for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture.

29:48With your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. So obsessed. Listen to pro society on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Kylie Breikman, Angel Jaretana. Jeremy Cole, Hane Pesh, McDonald. And we're the hosts of the artist on artist on artist on artist podcast. The improvised character comedy podcast were each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He, he winks on Halloween. It's right up next to the microphone. You get up. I hear you get the elbows here. The eyelashes hit each other. You never seen it least so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Self-care September is your reminder to slow down, check in with yourself, get off your phone, and maybe ask why am I like this?

30:49I'm James Beck, host of the Psychology of your 20s podcast. And this month we're helping you make sense of the person that you are becoming from setting boundaries and navigating friendships to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships, and attachment. Sometimes our biggest decisions without us even realizing it aren't driven by what we truly want, but by what will prevent us from feeling lonely or being alone. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So like by azer rather than a cell, at least 70% have a phone. I'm Dr. Joy and this is therapy for black girls. We spend our surviving middle school run getting into what's happening inside your kids' brain, the group chat, and their friendships, and what you can do about it. Your child is not doing this on purpose. That's the kind of perspective we've been pulling from the psychologists and psychiatrists who study this for a living. Listen to therapy for black girls on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

31:51This is an iHeart Podcast. They're indeed human.