Jim Tate | Elders at the Threshold: Psychedelics For Seniors, Healing, Spirituality & Contact

0:00I think it's just going to get weirder and weirder and weirder and finally it's going to be so weird that people are going to have to talk about how weird it is. Welcome back to Forbidden Knowledge News. I'm your host Chris Matthew. Today my guest is Jim Tate. Be sure and check out our merch shop. Apologies we had a bad link available in the description. That is fixed now. You can easily access all our shirt designs. We've got new designs going up all the time. We're taking requests. Use that link right in the description to go check those out. Watch my films I caught Louisiana's on to be Doors of Perception on Amazon Prime. We are booking guests for October. If you have suggestions or you'd like to be a guest, email me for binknowledgenews. Today I want to welcome Jim Tate, he is a writer and investigator, covering psychedelic medicine's culture and scientific revival. Jim, welcome. How you doing?

1:00You know Chris, I'm doing great. I'm on the east coast. I'm going to chat with him with care. I love it. A little bit later in the day for me than is yours, but been looking forward to having this conversation. Chris, as have I really been looking forward to this. We're going to get into your book elders at the threshold psychedelics for seniors, a practical guide to the science, safety and promise of psychedelic medicine later in life. Myself being a former psycho not an ongoing mushroom farmer and occasional microdoser. I really love this topic. Psychedelics have contributed so much to the prosperity of my life, my mental and emotional health. And there's also been very exciting studies recently about the benefits of psychedelics for things like addiction, depression, even possibly Alzheimer's. So very exciting things emerging right now. And I'm looking forward to the research you've been doing before we get into it. This is your first time on.

2:01Tell the audience a little bit about yourself and let them know how they can get more. Sure. Well, thank you Chris. Again, I'm Jim Tate. I'm a child of North Carolina. First encounter psychedelics in 1967 during the summer of love. Of the time when the underground chemist were wide open and New Mexico, California, United Kingdom. And so the whole concept of harm reduction, set and setting, we didn't know anything about time at all. So, you know, it was just, you take a strong dose of something and go to a movie, go to a restaurant, go to the mall. That always is the most pleasant experience when you're in those vulnerable states. But so kind of connected with psychedelics, very early on Chris. And then about five years ago, kind of started seeing this Renaissance as they call it.

3:10We had 50 years of the world drugs, no research, no anything. Chemists were given life sentences. So everything was shut down for about 50 years. It was a real propaganda war. So psychedelics cannot be suppressed forever. They certainly are not for everybody, but they're for some people. Whether it's for treatment of depression or anxiety or fear of death or just for having fun, you know, what's wrong with having fun or for a spiritual path, many different approaches of these compounds. So I got fascinated by it again, Chris. Started talking to a lot of people. They're talking to a lot of chemists, a lot of people in laboratories, a lot of the retreat centers in Oregon, retreat centers in Jamaica, Costa Rica, Mexico, all over.

4:10And so it's been a real journey. And so I have a sub stack. I could be followed to actually my main website is silency.com PSY, alien CIA silency.com. I'm going to make a vote on sub stack. I have a couple of podcasts I do. One called Inside the Revival where I interview a lot of folks and then I liked interview, just interview before this one. We're a podcast called the psychedelic silver screen where I interview folks, we're making movies about psychedelics and psychedelic bookshelves. So all over it, fast aid about where we are. Wish a lot of these open questions have been answered 30 or 40 years ago, but they have it. I believe we are on the threshold of above ground use of psychedelics. But just because something is legal doesn't mean that there's access.

5:12I expect the underground. And so, you know, again, it's not for everybody, but we won't save access, save for four of the excess. Right on. Let's start with a synopsis of the book elders at the threshold tells a little bit about it. Yep, exactly. Folks who are in their 50s, 60s or 70s and who may be experienced psychedelics in their youth and then step to way to raise their families when they really know underground available or folks in that age group, my age group who are coming, you know, they read things, maybe they read Michael Collins book, how to change your mind, or they're hearing from people. And they see these news things about the research trials that have very promising results.

6:12And so folks in my age, you know, where's the carrier, a lifetime of experience and some of that experience is grief. And then there's a lot of grief for folks are aged because there's been certainly a lot of loss. And then also kind of a unique aspect of anxiety around mortality. We know folks are aged and friends have died. So we're kind of approaching that next chapter now, ourself. So the experience can be very different for people in their 50s, 60s and 70s. And so my book really is addressed to my generation, but maybe also for the children and providers who take care of that generation because folks are going to be asking questions.

7:13We want to do this safely for folks. I've got a very wide scope of interest in psychedelics, Chris, but particularly folks in my age group who are drawn to psychedelics, you know, and harm reduction. It's a good idea to say, well, here's how to do it safe. You know, folks in their 60s or 70s, maybe on four or five different medications. So, you know, contraindications, that kind of stuff. Some of the very strong psychedelics like Iowansk or Ibo game, maybe that'd be totally appropriate as a first step for anybody who wants to go into this. You've got a big experience with mushrooms and psilocybin. That's probably much safer path for folks who are older, who are called to this. Why do you think during this time period that the research is being allowed? And this information is circulating more freely.

8:15You know, it's really interesting. We had 50 years of propaganda that said your chromosomes would be scrambled and basically your children would be born with pigtails. You know, and everything in between. So there was a lot of that kind of propaganda. The real break, I think, happened in 1990. Rick Strossman was the first person in over 20 years to be allowed to give psychedelics to humans. And that led his book and the movie DMT, the spirit molecule. And so that kind of cracked the door. And then the Imperial College in London, John Hopkins, some places in California started doing clinical research. And so after decades of when there was no funding for research, any serious scientists,

9:22it was the end of their career if they got involved with this crazy path of psychedelics. That's kind of worn down somewhat. And so to me, one of the most brilliant marketing things, kind of the Trojan horse of all this. Was that, and this kind of united the people who are on the, like a better term, the right and the left, is that these folks who had been veterans in Afghanistan or other parts of the world, and all these tours of duties, seen horrible things, been involved in horrible things, came back with terrible PSDD. And it was very hard to say that if this is psilocybin, and maybe some other of these plant medicines, could help them, how can we deny on that? And so there was a rise on both sides, the political plane landscape to say,

10:22well, maybe we should allow it for them. And so certainly a lot of books coming out, a lot of documentaries, a lot of word of mouth, a very, very, of course, you're in Colorado, Chris, where there is a very active above ground and underground. The rest of the country, well, Oregon is a above ground underground, but a very active underground in this, really all over the United States. Now, I think we're within, if not by the end of the year, by early 2027, FDA, I believe there's on track to approve a synthetic version of psilocybin, and maybe in the MA again, after the failure of three years ago. But legalization does not mean access. Yeah. So we need affordable access, we need safe access. And, you know, just for me, as an observer, somebody who thinks it's about and writes about it,

11:26how this is going to be scaled out, how this is going to be made available, one of the reimbursement modalities, all those kind of things. We're in a kind of dynamic thing, there are no standards, most of the retreat centers. So there's a lot of focus, and people call themselves shamans who are not shamans. But I'm also fasting by the history, the indigenous history. So there's a world of information, and I'm interested in all of it. Is there any particular substances that you focused on in the book? You mentioned Ayahuasca, Ibogane may not be the best to start out with. What substances did you really focus on? I think of all the classic psychedelics, the safest one, somebody going down this path is psilocybin.

12:28Recorded history, nobody has ever died from an overdose of psilocybin. So as opposed to some incredibly strong substance like LSD, which will wear a personnel. You can have maybe three, four, six hours of psilocybin experience. LSD may not let go of you for eight or ten hours. And so for folks who don't have a stamina for that intense, long period, it wouldn't be appropriate. I think Ibogane, which to me, I'm just fasting by Ibogane, which is not a classic psychedelic because it hits different brain receptors, neuro receptors. But has the fastening ability to be now a recognized treatment for opioid addiction? What exactly is Ibogane? Is this the extract from the frog or something different?

13:33No, no, no, no, good question. Iboga is a plant in Africa. And the root of that plant can be scraped off and powdered. That's the Ibogane. And so Ibogane is a very interesting drug because the ego essentially remains intact during the experience. And there can be many people describe it as almost looking at a slideshow of their life, where different instances of their life appear. Often when there was maybe a problematic relationship or something, but you view it impartially like from a third person's view. And kind of come to terms with it. And so it can often last eight to 16 hours. And then there's kind of continues. There's something called a gray day.

14:34So it is literally a two plus day experience. There have been cases of deaths associated with Ibogane. I don't know how many recorded less than 50, but still there is potential for cardiac toxicity. So people need to be careful. We need to be well screened with that. That you mentioned. I think you mentioned ayahuasca. Of course, ayahuasca, what's in ayahuasca is the actual psychedelic is DMT. DMT occurs in ayahuasca. The human body manufacturers that a lot of plants manufacture it. What is taken as part of an ayahuasca ceremony kind of comes on slowly, but it's in the body long time. So it's constantly across that blood brain barrier. When when it smoked the actual act of compound DMT literally in you know, 20 to 30 heartbeat.

15:44You're at the full experience. Right. And may only last 10 or 15 minutes. So it's kind of fascinating that a lot of work be done, including in your state Colorado with the annual McQueen. Of extended state DMT where people are. Captain that state by continuous infusion for hour to hour maybe up to three hours. You know, the fascinating thing about DMT is almost everybody reports they encounter entities. Yeah, that's one of the kind of fascinating aspects. You know, you probably heard that. I've also heard about the strange phenomena of people being kicked out of the DMT realm by some of these entities being told they weren't supposed to be there or they weren't ready for that. And the next thing they know they're out of it and they can't even feel the effects of DMT sometimes for an extended period of time. That is or they feel like they're being told you're coming too often.

16:47Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that that is fast. And of course a lot of research goes to that. To me, the best book on DMT there's a couple of regulars. There's a very personal book by Adam Butler. Yes, I've had Adam on a couple of times. Yeah, exactly. I'm DMT. But the seminal book is called Death by Estonishment Andrew Gollimore. And he gets that phrase. He did a lot of work at the Imperial College and he's very involved in extended state DMT work. He got that phrase. Death by Estonishment from parents, McKinnell. Right? Parents McKinnell. I love to much too, Marley. I've talked with Dennis before as well. Oh, yeah, exactly. And you know, there is the history between those two. You know, they wrote a book that each wrote books about their same experience.

17:49The fields of civil cyber, you know, in South America. I think crew hallucinations. The other one is the screaming. The brotherhood of the screaming a bit. So, you know, a fascinating. Tales about them. But I'll strike what we were talking about before we talked. Oh, I want to see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody asked Terence McKinnell if DMT was dangerous. And he said, only if you fear death by Estonishment. So I've never done DMT. Many people are astonished. By the impact of that. And of course, it doesn't last very long. Unless it's in an Iowaska formatter or extended state. Yeah. So that brings us to the question, Chris. What are these entities? Right. Hey guys, I want to reintroduce you all to C60 power. C60 is a super antioxidant. It works at the cellular level to neutralize oxidative stress and free radicals.

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19:51You'll get 10% off the entire order by using the link or code for Bid and Tin at checkout. It's one of the most interesting aspects to me because even through my psilocybin experiences, there have been a few very profound and powerful experiences where it seemed like I was in contact with some kind of intelligence. This happened multiple times and I understand this can happen throughout any kind of psychedelic experience. Some theories are that its aspects of ourself, our subconscious, our higher self, others believe that they are extraterrestrials or angelic beings, interdimensional beings. I think it could be all of the above. The way I come down and it is so universally recognized that this is a common occurrence and Rick Strossman in his research in the early 1990s.

20:53That's what fascinates him. He was collecting information. Everybody was telling the same thing. There were these beings here and things like that. Whether it is an alternate overlapping dimension, whether it's something else, whether it's our deep self, to me that is interesting but does it really matter? Probably there's knowledge there. And where that knowledge is coming from is kind of secondary from the fact that there is knowledge there. It seems to be tailored for us, for us to be able to use the knowledge and benefit from it. Each experience seems to be very personal. Absolutely. Another scientific element that kind of has a bad route in South America. Yes. I've heard some horror stories. Well, that's it. And that's why it is not even about the federal government on the control of substance list.

21:54Because people say, I'll take it one time. I'll never take it again. They figured there's no chance for abuse there. But those horror stories are based on people essentially smoking a massive overdose. It is really what it is. And in Mexico, outside, Wauha, you know, up in the mountains, there are three, what they call magical plants are the mushrooms. There's a salvia in the morning glory sheets. And their approach to salvia is a very slow approach. You know how people will say that they're different gender, almost gender specific spirits behind these different plants. You know, like a grandfather, a grandmother, and stuff like that. And then come and maybe love on you, but maybe kick you and say you need to stop drinking so much.

22:56Yeah. Who knows what. They say there's a guy in Northern California, Christopher Solomon, who's really. He's not saying about his work with salvia, but that the spirit behind salvia is a very shot spirit. His best approach on tiptoe. But he recommends very, very low doses, like everybody five minutes, just a tiptoe right to the edge. Of the a bit of a bit of that rather than just get launched in into space and. Yeah, totally discombobulated. But fast. So have you had positive experiences with salvia? Absolutely. Just because from, you know, knowledge that I gained from Chris. You mentioned synthetic psychedelics earlier that they may be developing a synthetic psilocybin. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

23:57I've never been big on synthetics. I've never really enjoyed LSD that much, except for when he was a young kid partying, but it doesn't have the same benefits for me that psilocybin does. Are you concerned at all about synthesizing these flakitelecs? Well, I certainly think about a lot. And all the research isn't in, but what FDA is most likely going to be approving for the end of this year or early 2027 by a company. I have, you know, a kingdom called compass. Is there synthetic. Synthesized. It is. It's called. 360. And that's what the FDA is going to be approving if approval comes through. And it does look look like it because they paid for all the clinical trials. You know, there's something that's called a entourage effect. Yeah, some folks talk about it.

24:57Yeah, there's psilocybin, but there's also these other compounds that are related to psilocybin that are in the mushrooms. Yes. And they act in concert with it's open. It's unsolved or entourage or whatever you call it. You know, maybe fine, but the one thing we do know is that for over 10,000 years, humans have done psilocybin mushrooms. And so there is a legacy there that has proven to be safe and effective and essentially no cost to it and no control. I hope that will always be available, but you know, kind of like you hint at here Chris, the pharmaceutical companies are coming.

25:57You know, it's seem trying to think lily just purchase. I think for I think I don't know, $3.8 billion maybe for their compounds. As far as my experiences with the synthetic psychedelics, I have tried synthetic psilocybin once I would never go back to it. It seemed like it was missing a very important part of the experience. If I were to be just eating the raw mushroom, there was a much deeper level that I would be able to access. And also through the synthetics, there was no connection to that oneness feeling that I had through the natural mushrooms. That may have just been my personal experience with it. I may have gotten a bad batch, but it wasn't something enjoyable like the natural experience. Sure. Understand. You know, some of you touched on earlier, I want to bring it back up.

27:00You talked about micro dosing. So what do you think about micro dosing? I love micro dosing. That's the one way that I have been ingesting mushrooms lately. For me, most of my heavy work, healing trauma and emotions was done with very high doses, three to five grams at a time. I feel like I dove in head first and really covered a lot of ground with those high doses. I no longer feel like I need those. Micro dosing for me is a good way to keep everything going and running smoothly. You know, there's something we need a lot more research on that. But I tell you, almost anybody that I, a lot of this is anecdotal of course, but I'm surprised by how many people I talk to or interview, regardless of what their age, micro dosing. So it has become an accepted, of course, that's some clinical.

28:05You know, these people may just notice a moon shift. Yeah. Which, you know, it's kind of kind of fast. Do you have any thoughts on what is unfolding in the brain? What scientifically is occurring? You hear the discussion of reconnecting neural pathways. But what does that really mean? Do you have any understanding of what's going on there? Well, just because I've told some people who understand it, there's something called neurogenesis. And there's this concept of plasticity, you know, kind of based on the concept that when a child is seven or eight years old or even younger, you can learn a second language pretty quickly. Yeah. It would take you a little bit longer. It would take me a lot longer because our brains are not able to absorb and learn as well.

29:05And so the belief and evidence points towards that psychedelics opens up a window of a period of time. In which it is easier to form new behaviors, deal with coping mechanisms that don't work anymore. Those kind of things. Now, again, you know, we had many years of no research. So all the research didn't end. I had a thing or interview many people who said that they felt that that. A period of open window after a psychedelic experience was directly related to the depth and links. Of the psychedelic experience. It would give you more of a pause towards that open thing. But when I was talking to Rick Strassman last week, he told me, you know, well, yeah, but the research shows that.

30:11And we'll research with rats shows that even on the commensurate microdose level. They can still see those brain changes. So, you know, one thing is opening up that dominant brain network, default network for change. But then the ability to possibly actually have new dendrite growth. It's certainly been explored. There's a big move with a lot of research made behind it to try and take the psychedelic experience out of psychedelics. Yeah. Now, and there is, and that has a good path because DMT in particular. Seems to be able to abruptly and radically reduce brain inflammation, increased blood flow in the brain.

31:15And create new pathways. And so the research, of course, has been done as the potential that if somebody comes in the right of the room. Who's had a stroke and you can give them a big dose of DMT that might have all that positive brain effect protective. And recovery without them having to go through a psychedelic experience. See, that's interesting. I would think the experience itself is making the changes in a person that is reconnecting everything. If they wouldn't have these profound experiences, would it still affect them in the same way? Research yet to be done. We're just kind of guessing at those things, you know, again, research for an entire generation. Yeah. But, but that research is underway. I'm in Chapel Hill just down the street here, you're in a short period of line up.

32:15Brian Rothlab, they've been given 26 million dollars to see if they can think the experience out. Many people who are knowledgeable in the field say, you know, kind of plupo the idea. But again, this kind of research is not based on. Having a certain kind of experience, experience of wonder of awe, of healing psychologically or emotionally, or being able to face traumatic events in your life. You know, I think you need to psychedelic experience for those things. Let's get into some of the clinical research for seniors earlier. We mentioned trials and research going on with Alzheimer's patients seem to be extremely beneficial and have a lot of promise so far. But what are some that you've looked at? You know, everybody who lives long enough is going to have cognitive decline.

33:18So whether it is somebody who has a disease like Alzheimer's or it's just age-related cognitive decline, not even classified, maybe as dementia. My guess is that there could be some very positive effects because these experiences are not only, again, affecting our consciousness and our experience of consciousness, but actually having an effect on the brain. And I think it's a fascinating area. You know, in the media, the media likes to hype. It was the media that beats the drums in the 60s and 70s that said this was able devil-style. Nobody should get involved with it. The media has kind of switched to an over-hype.

34:19You know, there was a report I saw it in a number of different outlets of a woman in her 80s head, some type of dimension, some on a gave her a bunch of mushrooms. And you know, within a day or so, she was talking again or something like that. I don't think it lasted very long. But there's a potential for a lot of false hope. Again, still sobbing in particular. That's the same thing. That's incredibly safe. You know, there's no non-toxic level of it. I'd be fascinated to see long-term research say if someone with Alzheimer's is microdosing on a regular basis. You know, there's certainly a lot of anecdotal reports about that. But we need more than that. We need more than that to see really what's going on. Something's going on. You know, as Kelly told Bob Dylan's line from one of his songs,

35:20Ballad, let's see what's it called. I can't remember, but the phrase is, you know, something's happening here, but you don't know what it is. I think we're kind of at that stage. Of course, for treatment of anxiety, post traumatic stress disorder, treatment, resistant depression, anxiety around death, all those kind of things. All the trials have been done. You know, I mean, it's just how many trials need to be done, really? So this is having some positive effects for people that have fear of dying as well. Absolutely. You know, one kind of interesting aspect of this, you know, which kind of goes into history. Outside Athens, Greece, there was a. More or less psychedelic retreat that happened every year for over 2000 years.

36:22And so, the illusion mysteries. And so, people would, Marcus Aurelius with Aristotle with Plato with everybody with you don't go once in your life. And there would be men could go women could go servants could go slaves you go, really democratic process. And you would enter this kind of underground area and drink a beverage called kaikeon. And there's been a lot of debate of what that kaikeon was. I believe it was a psychedelic compound. A lot of people do also. But people would come out of that experience. And they had lost their fear of death. And that's what they would often say. They've been through a death and rebirth in terms of consciousness and they no longer fear death. So, you know, just to have that anxiety removed experience.

37:25Like a better term cause consciousness of oneness connection to everything. Something bigger than our little ego that we developed in the Catholic culture of America. Let's talk a little bit about how seniors specifically should be dosing should evaluate the way that they're going to proceed any medical conditions things like that. Sure. You know, for a long time we've had the phrase set and setting. Yeah. And that was expanded to sore setting, and now it's screening sore setting and screening is kind of to make sure that folks that obviously probably should not take these compounds are, you know, worn or screened out. If you're bipolar, if there's a history of schizophrenia and your family.

38:29If you have bad heart disease, if you're on many different medications that might interfere or try to indicate things like that. And so it's all about harm reduction and the source is what the actual medication is or sacrament however one chooses to approach it. And that can be. I like the phrase start slow and start low and go slow. Which means if you're going to go to a tree or a therapist, you start with a very low dose. And then maybe after an hour increase that dose, but you know what you're taking. And you can kind of be eased into it. It's important in terms of the. And that's what you bring to the experience, your culture.

39:31Probably not a good idea if you just been fired from your job or if your spouse has died the right before that you go into a full blow, psychedelic experience. A lot of people judge for himself about that, but it's better to do it when you maybe look for a specific guidance or just have fun, but there's no overwhelming crisis going on your family. And then having whether it's a facilitator or a sitter or a treat leader who is very familiar with these states of consciousness and can provide whatever supports needed, which can be anything from a calming voice to a glass of water to who knows what, but just great that space for this music, but you know blankets, comfort. So I think those those four things are kind of the hallmark about approach. You know, in a positive way much different than what happened in the 1960s, where that was considered the most people.

40:37You mentioned shady providers, quote unquote shamans that may not be what they say they are. How would you suggest going about trying to find a good provider for this? That's such a big thing now because there is quite a bit of money that can be made underground retreats. We're seeing a rise of psychedelic entrepreneurs. We see folks call themselves shamans, you know, a shaman is part of an indigenous is part of a legacy. They're really born into it. They start, they've been trained at the age of seven or eight. And they're part of an intact community. So I understand a lot of people's heart could be the right place, but just because you have a, at a very positive psychedelic experience. Does it mean that even though you want everybody else in the world to take psychedelics that you are competent to help guide somebody or a whole space for somebody in the safe way.

41:49I see a lot of that out there. And there's such a differential in power dynamics. We're on psychedelics. It can be an extremely vulnerable space where it's they can be misled and be manipulated. So there can be a power dynamic that occurs that if, if the person who maybe is providing the medication and sacrament and keep it on things, they start being seen as somebody who has some higher knowledge. And their ego allows them to kind of embrace that that, you know, they're the pied piper. So that is certainly out there until, until we get affordable legal access, that's going to be, that's going to continue to be an issue.

42:54No, I was talking to a guy in Australia last week. I was talking to a guy who was a legalized psilocybin and MDMA for medical use three years ago. Okay. And three years less than 200 people have been through that process. Wow. At the same time, Oregon has done over, you know, about, you know, three years, over 20,000 sessions. How many individuals, 20,000 sessions. And that's because you legalize it. And Australia, you have to have a specific diagnosis. You get it from a psychiatrist. That psychiatrist has to fill out paperwork, follow up with it. The whole process averages about $15,000. So it's not surprising that there is obviously a very strong underground because who could afford less than 200 people have been through it in the years. That's crazy. So, so 2027 to me, it's going to be fascinating to watch.

43:58It looks like the above ground rollout. And how they're going to scale that, you know, you go to a provider now. And, you know, you might get 15 minutes or 20 minutes. Yeah. Or you see a therapist or psychiatrist might be an hour. But for these things that take four, six, seven hours. How's that going to be done? Colorado as Oregon was first statewide. And then I think Oregon's, I think, really called the natural medicines, beyond an act or something like that. It took a lot that was learned from Oregon and took the next step. Still some problems understand there. I guess New Mexico may be, it's going to be next. And so we see what they roll out on the state level. That's very interesting to see how quickly things are moving along with this. Let's talk a little bit more about dosing specifically with psilocybin.

45:02Let's start there because you said this is probably the easiest for folks to start with. How would you recommend people deciding whether they want to go macro or micro dosing? Yeah. There's that phrase heroic dose. Yeah. Which, who even knows what that means. I guess it means a lot. I don't know. But as you well know with your experience, I was mushrooms. The potency varies from strain to strain from flush to flush. Yeah. So just because they say, wow, I took five grams of dried mushrooms. That really doesn't mean much. Because some strains are 10 times or more potent than others. I'll let you kind of weigh in on that. And so during clinical trials, 25 milligrams of psilocybin is standard dosing. What they give to people.

46:02How many grams of mushrooms that is that it depends. Yeah, there's a great lab. Colorado, Colorado called triptomics. And they have done some of the most advanced research on psilocybin, including, you know, some folks, they'll do what they call the lemon tech, ground up mushrooms. My wife does that. Triptomics and you know their website and see the research they've done. Aren't you works much better. Really much more effective. Triptomics.com go there. They've got a lot of research. It's fascinating. Research, they've had as well as, of course, psilocybin brings down the body into the psilocybin. And so what they've also found is, you know, the best way to store mushrooms,

47:02longterm things like that. So, a lot of great work being done on the science side there. Triptomics and Rose Hill labs. I think they're out in California. You really are. Those folks are figuring things out. Yeah, go there and check out the orange juice deck. Kind of fascinating. And so, you know, new strains of mushrooms are being discovered all the time and hybrid. Things being, you know, I'm not sure how you cross mushrooms when it's kind of a sport based thing. And it was amazing how that, the technology and knowledge to grow at home. You know, that was Karen and Dennis McKenna. They wrote the book on it. They figured out how to do it. They wrote the book and suddenly people all over the country could do it. And now, for those who want to grow at home, it couldn't be much simpler.

48:04It's easier than growing tomatoes. Do you think that there are some issues that may be more appropriate for ayahuasca or I began the stronger ones? Yeah, I think for somebody, if I knew somebody who was struggling with opioid addiction, and it failed rehab a few times, I will gain. I think it should be considered as a path forward. Of course, I will gain being underground. I'm a little concerned about that because this is. I mean, it's a battleship. And it's long and it's a very arduous thing to go through. And the benefits probably, you know, balance that out, obviously. And I think that Colorado, I don't know if they finalize it, but I think there's going to be.

49:10And all of that is that there is a. Above ground legal. I'm a game. I know there's a thing of reciprocity in that. You know, the kind of the colonial perspective, we're just going to go to Africa or wherever and just rip off everything we can and bring it back here and make money. And so. is rolled out in Colorado. Another considering how to do import, abogaine in a way that is not totally extractive. Earlier, we're talking a bit about DMT. I'm curious about when people experience what's called a breakthrough. I've only tried DMT once. I didn't experience the breakthrough. But what I'm wondering is if the most profound healing and beneficial experiences occur after that breakthrough stage.

50:12I don't know, but I certainly have talked a lot of people and heard from a lot of people. They didn't achieve that breakthrough. But I think one has, you know, pretty pure DMT with enough of it. I don't think the breakthrough can be avoided. Yeah. I could be wrong on that. And what's kind of fascinating is a lot of these abogaine clinics, especially in Mexico, well, people do abogaine for a few days. Then before they leave, they hit them with DMT pipe. I'm not a big fan of stacking medicines like that. Right. I'm not sure about that. But one step beyond the DMT is five MEO,

51:13which is a very similar compound. We've certainly heard about it because of the snorren toes, snorren desert toe, which where with DMT is a breakthrough into this state of consciousness where there's entities, there's knowledge being imported, imparted, and come back and feels real or the real and many reports. The five MEO, there's none of that. It's just a blast into the white light. Wow. And a lot of people have felt that was very healing. Chris, I was in Scotland a couple of months ago talking with some some crowns over there who had this. I got a psychedelic research group. And they have a real concern because when you were young, when I was young, teenagers were running around with the bag of

52:19weed, smoke the weed. But it's so easy to get a a vape with DMT in it. And the teenagers run around hitting a DMT pipe throughout the day or in between classes. And I got to say, I'm not, you know, these are such powerful chemicals that, you know, there's concern there. And it doesn't seem to be much controlled in this country, you know, I mean, you can go online about anything right, even in the dark way. I've just above board. So it seems like the government's kind of looking the other way now, both to the state and federal level. I haven't heard of a psychedelic retreat being busted in years. It's a double edged sword. Like you said, you have to watch out for this young children are getting their hands on this. I've heard of instances where a mom and dad will be growing mushrooms in their kid is curious and gets into their mushrooms. But I want to get

53:21into the metaphysical spiritual possibilities. Earlier, we mentioned contact with entities. Through my experiences, there was such a profound almost knowing that I was accessing spiritual realms. There was something happening on a much larger scale than I could comprehend. And it was like a connection to what lies beyond our perception. That's always there that we can't normally access, but it opens a door to the spirit realm. Would you agree? Well, I'd read totally. Our realities are formed by our five senses against we have five senses. And so we know that dogs can hear things that we can't hear. We know that bats can locate things by sound and we can't

54:22locate. And so our experience of reality is really a hunch, almost, a hunch based upon what's coming in from our senses. And so, yeah, in a psychedelic experience, the frequency of whether it's light or sound or aspects of where our mind goes is totally different than ordinary reality, I guess, for a lack of a better term. And that's one of the things that is interesting about the medicalization of psychedelics is when insurance companies are not going to pay for somebody to have a spiritual experience. And so that's why they're so focused on,

55:23they've got to have a diagnosis, you got to have some disease state, the first side disorder where you can have those. And so that conscious as expansion, spiritual path, you know, that's certainly going to continue in the underground. It's kind of fascinating how another culture in Mexico, psychedelics were used not to, not in the way they are here to achieve some state of consciousness or expand consciousness. It was for things like the fine, by my subjects, to diagnose some bodies, physical ailments, or to protect yourself from a bad spell or something like that. And so, psychedelics in this country, in some way, we're so divorced

56:24from the indigenous use of them, we're really inventing our own culture around psychedelics, you know, reflected by our society, how we live. We are in a fascinating time. I'm very interested to see where everything goes with this research and what's going to be possible. Last few minutes, any final thoughts before we close out also let people know about your website, Silencia platform and how to find the book. Yep. Yeah. Silencia.com PSY, LENCIA, Silencia.com. My book is available. Elders at the Threshold, psychedelics, for seniors, you can get it on Amazon. If you don't want to get from Amazon, your local bookstore can order it from you. The book distributor. And or if somebody just wants an electronic copy,

57:27getting contact with me, I'll send you PDF for no charge. I'm just kind of trying to spread the word here, Chris, trying to put out there. And my final words, especially for the book's written for a few of my ages, it's never too late to learn, to experience wonder and to heal. That's what I'll leave you with. That's a great note to close on. Jim, thank you so much. Love to do this again in the future. And until next time, everyone, have a wonderful evening. We'll talk again tomorrow. Thank you so much, Chris. Thank you. Watch doors of perception now on Amazon Prime. Are you and your family prepared for an emergency? Maybe the fake alien invasion. Now is the time to prepare yourself and your family for any event. Check out prep starts now. Their mission is to provide high quality preparedness products that empower individuals and families to be ready for any situation. They're committed to delivering reliable, trusted gear to

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