Jon Wexler: The Untold Story Behind Yeezy and Adidas' Biggest Era

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Last day of All Star,

man, it's been a fun weekend.

It's a good weekend, man.

Shout out to everybody who's participated

from, uh, we got what Dr. Jay and, and the game.

Yup.

We got a guest here.

We'll, we'll introduce him in a second,

but great day at a lighthouse yesterday.

Shout out lighthouse.

Yeah, Max JR.

Simba.

Simba came through, um,

Greg Holler.

Greg Holler.

Greg Holler.

I just shout out Draft Kings for the partnership

during the weekend.

Baby pool, though.

Yeah.

There was a lot of stuff going on.

Moneyline.

This episode was presented by Moneyline.

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Moneyline.

Make money easy.

The gentleman I'm about to introduce.

I was in disbelief when we jumped on a call.

It was a two months ago.

What was it about two months ago?

Because they told me we were meeting

with this particular person, and I'm thinking like,

you know, I was going to do collabs with our merch.

I'm like, yeah, right.

So I googled to see if there's another one of this person,

and there's, there's only him.

So when I jumped on and saw a space too,

I'm like, there's no way we're about to collab.

But this is one of the most influential people

behind the scenes.

Uh, sneaker, culture, fashion.

Um, the Kanye whisperer.

Um, had a hand in the Yeezy brand.

Um, at Adidas alongside with Yee,

he's worked with the likes of Kobe Bryant,

Tracy McGrady.

OG Sonny Becaro,

Rao, Jimmy Butler,

Luca Beyoncé, the name,

and the names continue to go on.

Um, we're hoping he has story for days,

and he's going to share some of those with us.

Um, as I mentioned earlier,

he recently collabed through draft kings

with our drop, our capsule for All Star 2026.

Um, without further ado,

let's welcome to the show, John Wexler.

Oh.

Crazy.

Appreciate it.

What a, what an intro.

That was it.

I need to bring you everywhere.

If we've had a long list of guests,

that was the longest introduction.

Yeah.

I appreciate you getting through.

Yeah.

No, for real.

That was, I'm honored just to be here.

Like I said, I'm a huge fan of the,

the content that you guys have been creating.

And, uh, you know, just to be sitting here,

I think I told you earlier.

Yeah.

It feels surreal.

I appreciate it, man.

Um, what would you say?

Obviously, a man of many hats

and have helped a lot of influential people in our culture.

What would you say your gift is?

I'm still trying to figure that out.

I, I think I just listen to what people are saying

and try to tell them the truth to what is happening

and what the consequences outcomes need to be

when they ask me a question.

So instead of blowing smoke up their ass,

I just kind of shoot them straight and, uh,

helps people save time.

And so a lot of those people you listed in that intro,

I can remember instances where they would,

you know, for instance, with Pharrell,

um, Arthur Holdenau,

we're backstage at the voice,

kind of just talking to him about what we're going to do

for the following year.

And he mentioned someone that he wanted to bring back to the brand.

I was like, actually, we're not going to do that.

And he was like, I've been bringing this person up

for six months in other meetings.

And it's just been people getting quiet.

And I go, oh, yeah, that's the, uh,

corporate way of people saying no.

That's the silent no and corporate.

I'm like, I'm just shooting you straight now.

We're not going to do it.

I've worked with that person before.

And it's like, we can't get it done.

And he was like, I love you.

Right.

And I was like, yeah, okay.

You know, and it just was like normal part of doing this.

But I also think too,

because when you get to that level of work and brands

and caliber of people,

they don't hear a ton of notes.

You know what I mean?

They don't hear a ton of notes from people

that they can trust and lean on.

And if you're one of those truth tellers type people,

I mean, I get, I get, I get that a lot of respect as well.

True. Yeah.

My job, I mean, I remember, uh, in 2014,

right after Kanye signed the deal and actually announced it

on that Angie Martinez show,

it was like the morning he interviewed with Charlemagne

and called me and was like, I didn't leak it.

And then he went on Angie in the afternoon and leaked it.

But it was a great, I was like the world finally heard.

But then he set up at our New York office.

And there was like a line of reporters out the door

and it kind of shut down the team's ability to work

in our New York office.

So the office called me and said,

hey, can you find another studio for him?

And this was like the first week of the partnership.

And so I found another studio for him.

My friend, Teddy Luleakis came to the rescue.

Shout out, Teddy.

And I called Kanye and I was like, hey man, how's it going in there?

Actually, first I called Nick Galen.

I was like, how's the vibe in there?

He goes, oh my god, I've never seen anything like this.

Kanye turned this whole office into this amazing, like multi,

like creative space.

And it's this amazing studio and energy here is amazing.

We have these sewing machines.

It was a beautiful moment.

And I was like, okay, cool.

I'm going to call him right now and ask him to leave.

He's like, oh, he's not going to do that.

And I hung up the phone.

And I called Kanye.

And I remember like, like, twitching.

Well, I'm calling him.

Because you know, it's like, I'm calling him.

And I'm like, hey man, it's not just my job to tell you the good news.

I also got to tell you the bad.

I need you to get out of there.

And I have another place for you to go to.

It's like a couple blocks away.

He set up at 8 a.m.

And he said, oh, no way.

This place is amazing.

You don't understand.

He talked for another 10 minutes.

I could do that.

I just got to shoot you straight.

I got to get you the fuck out of there.

And he goes, all right, fuck it.

And he handed the phone to Virgil.

And so then I was like, Virgil, don't worry.

I got the studio.

We're moving all this stuff out.

It'll be there tomorrow and sure enough.

It was all set the next day.

But yeah, my job was also that no God telling people the hard news.

And I've had many of those convos.

I'm a firm believer that when you have those discussions that they,

if you happen the right way in a way where mutual respect is shown

that you can actually get closer through those moments, then create more distance.

And I think that that is one of the things that was a key to my sauce.

Kanye would say that my secret ability was getting him to,

he would always say to the senior executive,

if my job was to get him to approve shoes and say, yes, our idea is,

and figure out how.

And sometimes that would happen in a minute.

And sometimes that would happen over a course of a year and a half.

But, you know, I was also the, he told Ronnie Fag once.

I was his white boy skinny approved news.

So unless I wore the shoe, it would not get hit made.

So yeah, Ronnie called me.

He goes, bro, you're not going to believe this.

I was like, he said the meanest thing.

And he goes, yeah, I was like, oh, yeah.

I heard it.

Can't be surprised what he said.

That's double con.

Yeah.

All right.

Read this tweet from five years ago.

Yeah, he wrote it after you left with D.

It's Godspeed to my brother, John Wexler.

This man changed the game with our D.

His deal and help bring a D.

To a 62 billion dollar market cap and made me a multi,

a multi billion.

Thank you, John.

You changed my life.

How do you feel when you hear that?

I mean, it's a, it's a real nice acknowledgement of what went down

and what we were able to accomplish.

You know, as a, as a kid who grew up in Chicago suburbs,

during the era of the bulls and their, their heyday,

and watching the Jordan brand blow up and being one of those kids

who bought them at athletes foot when that was in the mall,

in the Northburg court.

You know, like literally five different sneaker shops

that could compete at a thing called malls,

which are now on your phone.

So anyway, but yeah, I mean, we would, we,

so I've always loved that brand and sort of be able to build something

with the cultural equivalent at that moment in time.

You know, it was lighting in a bottle and we,

we captured very special things.

So for me, it's almost impossible to put into words,

but that tweet when it came was special to me

because I'd already left the brand.

Oh, wow.

That was just an acknowledgement of the announcement

when it finally went out.

I was living in Cody, Wyoming in 2020,

working on the, um, building the space out there

and I had a ranch, she had a ranch.

Whole team was out there.

We built up this factory-ish space that was like a more of a sample lab

where we built those first foam runners that shipped with his gap launch.

But uh, so I was living out there and it was like a week before COVID

and my brother called me and told me that he had gotten ill

at cancer and stayed for brain cancer.

So I actually pulled out right then.

It was like two days before Rudy touched all the mics.

So I was in New York for that.

And so when that tweet hit,

I actually not spoken to him for a couple of months at that point

because I was like already with caregiving and stuff like that.

So it was just really nice that that went out,

you know, it's kind of didn't expect it and totally out of the blue.

Um, I remember as I started at Shopify though,

it was really funny because they were like,

oh, the announcement went great.

It was the most Google searches you've had for your name in a long time.

And I was like, that could be because Kanye tweeted John Lex

so changed my life for something.

You know, they were like, oh yeah.

Sorry.

Because you know, he didn't at me.

He just put my name in there.

So I was like, who's this John Lex?

A guy, you know, I thought that was kind of funny.

But um, yeah, the guy was, it was a special moment in time.

Those eight years and, um, you know, we built that business.

When I left, it was, uh, 1.8 billion in,

in launching, oh, sorry, in launching 2015 February.

Adidas market cap was 12.

Um, and their stock was like 27.

And at the point of that tweet,

when I officially was gone,

the market cap was 60.

So that's whatever that difference is and billions and value to a brand.

And, you know, Yeezy was 1.8 of that.

But the halo that it had on that brand,

even today, the perception of people is based on that moment.

And the truth is, is that in 2012,

when I was given the green light to attempt to sign them,

uh, which took about a year,

um, Adidas was, it was Nike 1,

Jordan 2,

I'm sorry, Nike under armor,

sketchers,

Jordan Adidas.

Wow.

So we're the fifth largest sneaker brand at that time.

And the brand's business would go in the wrong direction.

We were reporting in euros to the stock market,

where our market cap was 12.

I'm still, I'm still surprised that like a VC didn't come in and strip the company down

and do what they've done to other sneaker companies recently.

So, um, we got very lucky.

Oh, what could you guys pull it up?

Let's see.

What was it, 2015?

February?

12, 2015.

Was the day we launched yet?

So that's 39.

Okay.

Five years later, when you we?

Uh, whatever that data that tweet was, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's like, yeah.

Five times as big.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The market cap won from 12 to 60.

So, um, I say all that to say,

Kanye was the first guy that wore the boo shoes.

Ultra boost.

Mm-hmm.

And that was obviously a huge thing for Adidas in 2015 and it blew up.

But I remember being on a phone call with the president of Foot Locker Worldwide

two weeks before that launch.

Because I was the only one who knew the plan for easy.

I was the one who was saying to Kanye,

we're going to launch this app.

You're going to come out from behind the curtain.

You're going to hand the shoes to kids.

Because in that era, you know, kind of like how Nike just restored the feeling out here

this weekend with like those, I mean, you know,

sneaker fights were always a bad thing then.

Now it's kind of like, oh, sneaker lines are back.

Kids are fighting.

It's like, um, sneaker love is back.

So it's kind of a weird industry.

But take us back to that initial phone call with him in August of 2012,

when you said you attempted to sign him.

What was the, what was the back story to that was something you shot to the brand?

They shot to you.

Word the idea of.

So let's try to get him.

I'm glad you asked that.

Shay Pope, who was running good music called Todd Crinsky,

who was at Reebok Adidas own Reebok at the time.

They're partners before ABG took him.

And Todd called me and said, I've known Shay on my life.

He said Kanye's frustrated it at Nike.

He's ready to leave.

And I was like, oh, we need to work with him.

Like we need that.

And Todd was like, all right, let me talk to Shay.

And then Todd talked to Shay.

And sure enough, um, my phone rang a couple, like a month later.

And it was Kanye.

And it was that phone call you're talking about.

And he talked for about an hour about his vision and about everything he wanted to do.

And, you know, kind of laid out the plan.

And it was such a scattered call.

I couldn't really take notes.

So then the next day we got it back on the phone.

That time I was ready, kind of like had a piece of paper with like,

all right, these are the topics he said yesterday.

When he talks about him again, kind of put that phone in an organized way.

So I can get the team to understand it.

And we put the deal together.

And then he passed.

So he said no.

And, uh, so now fast forward to June 2013.

Um, he's now on tour with Jesus.

He's done all that stuff.

And we're shooting an ad out here in LA for a Derek Rose shoe.

And I actually have a cameo in it.

Um, this was common.

Big Sean.

Uh, T.B. Jefferson shot the photos for it.

Um, Dom Kennedy isn't it.

And two changes in it.

And I remember saying to my lawyer that night,

I go, I bet Kanye calls me tomorrow morning.

Because all these good music.

These are going to go to his house tonight.

And he's just say, why are you here?

And he's just say, I'm not this adidas ad.

And he's going to think about the deal.

And sure enough, the next day I woke up to eight.

And his phone calls from him.

And we hadn't spoken in a couple months.

And that was when he says John W. X.

Or save my life.

The phone call he's talking about is that call.

Because on that call, he's like, John, I cannot sleep.

I can't eat.

Like this deal is affecting my life.

Like we have to get this done.

I cannot like function.

I have all these designs in my head.

I can't get my ideas to the world.

Like imagine how you would feel with that guy.

And you knew what.

Like if only people listened to you sooner.

Mm hmm.

Kind of thing.

And so I was like, look, man.

Perfect timing.

Yeah.

Look at that.

Look, man.

Perfect timing.

Like, let's go get it.

And so we put the deal back together.

And that was June.

So Fashion Week, Paris or New York Fashion Week in September.

I go from the Y-3 show to Jimmy Fallon.

We're rehearsing for Bound.

And we kind of like drafted up the deal.

At all the German execs already coming to town for Y-3.

For that show.

How did you sell that?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

And we're already coming to town for Y-3 for that show.

How did you sell that real quick not to cut you off that German company, leadership?

How did you sell the black cultural side?

Were they kind of just, hey, we need something?

What was the sell there?

So, to win in the sneaker market, you have to win North America.

And all things start here.

So that was like step one.

The CMO of Adidas at the time was gotten him hermendine gr.

And he came in my office, and he said, share we sign Kanye.

And I said, yes, and then he brought in two other people and they fence sat and he said, we can

either sign them. We can let them keep killing us at Nike or we can shoot him. And I was like, well,

we're clearly not going to shoot him. So let me go sign them. And then he said, okay, go sign them

or you're fired. And I said, all right, Herman, I understand if what I get, if I don't sign them,

what do I get if I run? Because two years prior to that, he said the same thing to me about

Justin Bieber. I went and signed them and all it did was create more work for me. And the brand

we put Justin on left from 250 million to a billion. So we knew that there was an opportunity to

work with folks of that community that have controversy, but also an audience that's super locked

in core audience. And so Germany, the team out there, Herman, that crew, there was no resistance to

any of that. And truth be told with the run DMC legacy, Adidas was the only brand that really

had the legitimate sort of, they understood it. Yeah. So and all those guys were there then.

It's like it's a company journey where you never leave. It's not like America. Yeah. Yeah,

my for, oh, they opened the door. And so like that was the thing with culture. Like in 2008,

I went to my boss and said, look, we're investing in all these athletes. We've 2.2 billion

dollars of fixed assets against all these sports teams and whatever. And we're going to lay out

money on like nine different NBA draftees or NFL draftees, but we're not going to do the same

thing in the cultural space. I called run DMC for an ad. Eric Blam hung up the phone. He goes,

let me call you back. Call me back 10 minutes later. He goes, John, no one from France called him

in 20 years. I had to make sure you really worked there. So anyway, fixed that in 2008. Yeah. So

like the cultural thing was always like Adidas had a deep legacy in there. And so fortunately,

run DMC was in the first ad we did for a vaginal since the guy the helicopter with the uh,

you know, vintage stuff in the 80s. On the adventures of Curiosity Co. podcasts,

what if the right fit isn't what everyone expects? In the case of the right fit,

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This women's history month story introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves

and moving differently. A thoughtful episode about identity, courage, and helping kids discover

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Listen to adventures of Curiosity Co. every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network

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I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him and I said hi, dad. And just when I said that,

my mom comes out of the kitchen and she says, I have cookies and milk. This is bad-ass

congregation. Right. Just finish five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk and milk.

On the Steiner Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw unfiltered conversations

about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor,

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Hey, ambitious, well-intentioned, barotias, and wealthy mother looks like in the black community.

This woman's history month, the podcast, Kirit Pazza Sweety, celebrates the power of women choosing

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inspired, and tell the truth out loud. I have several conversations with God, and I know

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of iHeart

Media, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic, stories from the

Frontiers of Marketing. Math and Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses

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I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars, and now I guess also

is the co-host of The Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alargon, a writer

and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first world cup was

Mexico 86. I was 9 years old. I watched every game, and I fell in love. On our new podcast The Away End,

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For us, soccer, football is a story we've shared for over 30 years. Since Daniel was the star

player on our high school soccer team, very debatable, and I was their most loyal and sometimes

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Together, we'll find out why of all the unimportant things football, soccer, is the most important.

Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alargon and John Green on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcasts. What's the definition of culture for you? Because you've

been entrenched in it. This world of just rebellious attitude. I remember the thing that triggered

me with hip-hop. It got me to love it, and one of DJ's kid was like, it sounded like all the

influences in my life colliding from punk to R&B. I was listening to radio music, so at that time

in the 80s, it was all these different things happening, and then R&DMC came out, and it was like

rock meets punk meets like heavy metal all at once, you know, king of rock. So I was immediately hooked,

and you know, if you were to look at pictures of me from growing up, I'd like you to have a flat

top, and you'd crack up. I thought I was like the fourth BC or something.

So yeah, Kanye mentioned he was unhappy and Nike. Did he mention the reason why, because the

easy ones and twos were unbelievably popular, successful before a lot of money, was there a reason

he pointed out that he wasn't happy? So the thing that was funny about him is that the first time

he went there, according to the stories he's told me from memory, is that they kicked him off

campus because they just wanted to put like lyrics inside of a shoe, and he commented negatively

about the shoes so they kicked him out. And then he was on some private jet with Mark Parker,

who ran the company, and started showing his designs, and that's how those Nike projects came out.

The thing that frustrated him though, I think, was the fact that those, at that point in time,

there was no financial benefit to him, and there was no equitable reciprocity for the effort and

energy that he was giving them, or cachet to his audience and culture. And so there was that,

and then there was also sort of the sandbox aspect. So like the first Nike EZC did were based off

of existing outsoles not to get into the sausage making, but it wasn't a totally new shoe, for instance.

Like they would take the bottom of that Air Force one and put his shoe on top, but it was like I

think an air raid from like one of the tennis shoes if I'm not mistaken. So for us, we gave him the

full sandbox. We gave him the full creative leeway. In fact, when I took him to the Germany office,

he grabbed me and goes, it was right after the sway thing, and I took him to our materials library,

and he goes, see, these are the answers sway does not have. And I've witnessed this to that.

So I always made sure people were riding next to me when he would come to the office because it was like

we knew what we were doing was history in the making every minute of it, and that's why we treated it

so carefully. And it was like precious to us. And still it is really like me and Jim and Rachel,

we're all still in touch. I haven't spoken to Nick too much, but like that initial crew and

the rest of the team from it on the Adidas side obviously. And then on the easy crew, you know,

rest in peace Virgil for sure. And then like Jerry and Ivan, I mean, I just saw Ivan the other night,

Diana been texting with still recently, but you know, it's just I'll do people.

I mean, obviously Kanye, the artist's incredible. Kanye, the man, complicated, misunderstood.

You've got to see kind of all aspects of him. What is some things that you don't mind sharing

about his genius, his greatness, him that we wouldn't get to see on the outside?

I think everybody sees everything. No, I'm just kidding. There was a lot of things that happened

that were like, for instance, you'd get to hear everything evolving over time on the music side,

while we were having discussions in the same room about sneaker stuff and the boards everywhere.

And I always thought that like, you know, swirl the energy to it was what made it so cool,

because it added to the overall like, I don't know if it's competitive nature, just like people

just pushing each other further. So like you hear him going so hard on the music you want.

You know, like that Dre M&M remix of that album that he made with the blue, what was it?

The God album that was the gospel album. Like we heard that in the car in Cody five thousand times,

you know, on full blast and then two years later, let's go out. Or I remember when we were listening

to the Yandy album that never came out in Chicago, you know, and then that same album that came

out when we were in Cody comes out. And I remember one of the songs on the album and when the drums

came out, he looked at me and he saw me like, waiting for the drums that never came. And he goes,

yeah, we took those out. Like so, you know, I mean, it was like we were so like sort of in those

moments with him, flying to the Bahamas after the hurricane with Rick Fox, crazy memory,

just kind of see the world over there, because Rick Fox is like Elvis Presley over there when he

tried no idea. Just the behind the scenes of MSG season three, that was another epic memory.

And then, you know, obviously like go into this house in January and unveiling what we're going to

do from a marketing standpoint to help him support for season and seeing that thing go out with such

power and then standing next to the president of foot locker in our CMO and him turned to Adidas

and say, this will never help my consumer. And then he looked at me and I'm like, it's going to work,

man. So, you know, even in that moment, people are doubting it. So it's nice to always

over 10 years anniversary. This was this, this was the launch of easy three? That was easy season three.

Yeah, that's where the 350V2 came out. And that was the Salahee 24 hours at night,

pointing the booth that never came out. The 10, the 10, the 10, 50 Pablo listening session.

So we gave out seats through our store tickets sold out all of MSG and Kanye unveiled all the

apparel for season three. The Nessa B. Croft did the show. And it was Lamar Odom's first day kind

of back in the real world. He was there. His whole family is probably the happiest ever, Salahee,

man. And it was like him and Don C couldn't find the door to the venue. They're like, we're running

around the outside. You ever try to get an MSG? You know, I'm talking about it. It's like you can

look on the door. He was like, almost late to his own listening session and like his pants weren't

done. So yeah, absolutely. I mean, ultimately we dropped, we did a single drop with 1.4 million pairs

of one of the shoes in 20, September 21st, 2018, I believe. We had all those dancers on the covers

of New York Times, wearing the triple white easy, did 350 million, 24 hours, two websites, Adidas.com.

X-Lash Easy and EasySupply.com. Yeah. So that was the ultimate goal. But you know, to get to that

point in time and to sometimes you have to like pull back the spring to build that demand before

or not sometimes, if you want to do that business right, the point of that is to always have a

little bit of unrequited love that people have to keep chasing. I mean, even with 1.4 million pairs

of that shoe going out that day, there are still people to this day that couldn't get that shoe,

you know. And that was also the third time we restocked that. So it's pretty fun.

Yeah, that was the year. So anyway, like lots of moments that are like business, but also the

personal side. Actually, the the funnest thing was this was the funnest moment I had it easy.

Rachel and I got to go to the footwear news awards with Arthur and Kanye and 88 keys and his team.

We got you with the year Kanye gave me this beautiful shout out after he just kind of like

whipped over his shoulder and was like, oh yeah, I got to do this real quick. And then we went

to dinner with them. And then he's like, let's go to the studio and we went to the studio and

listened to the Pablo like beginnings of the album for the first time. It was just cool to see that

like all in a 24 hour period. I made an appearance on that album accidentally. How? How? That's

some shit I had done. Okay, I didn't know that. I didn't mean to push any buttons. Yeah, back in the day.

It was probably worth it. Yeah, it was cool.

Yeah, I didn't make any appearances on any of this. But no, but for real, I think that like there was

just such a surreal twist to every single moment of that. And you know, it'll it'll live sometime

at some point in the movie somewhere else. Absolutely. A lot of people say easy laid the groundwork

for a lot of a lot of brands of static and style. They're saying colorways and with the the

minimalist logo hits. What do you think about that? I think those people are pretty spot on.

I think the color palette of the last 12 years and the brands that have

taken that a role with it have all done exceptionally well. And the sort of nature of how he

built a peril in the design language of what he did for sure in a peril has continued. I think

it's sneakers though. It's definitely like gone the other direction like you kind of that

spring with sneakers is kind of like the trend of the rubber band kind of snap back past it.

So like sort of course stuff again. So you know like getting accessible things are cool now

versus getting the limited like futuristic crazy design. That whole thing as

you kind of need people who can legitimize that authentically. And so now the brands are going

a little safer I think. But he disrupted the whole industry. And uh this reaction is good.

Oh yeah. And it needs it again. I mean, I think that like right now, you know,

you're seeing a lot of sort of like switching of people and brands they're with and stuff,

but that's just like more of the same. I think someone needs to like shake it up.

Is there a person you think that's not in the mix right now? Do you think has that kind of star

power and everything you feel like to really disrupt this space right now? Definitely, but brands

pay me for that. No, I'm just kidding. I'm telling you. I'm editing. I'm actually not kidding.

I'm not kidding, but no, I would say playboy Cardi is like if he isn't already signed by someone

that's like, I don't know who's asleep at the wheel of that. Really? I mean, I know that like the dude

has some stuff with underarm or might have something there there, but like that he hasn't had a

brand make a play with him. That's not our like we're not in that space. Yeah, he would have the

kids like he would. Yeah, I think so. Interesting. I think so. I wouldn't bet against you. Yeah.

I wouldn't bet against you. He's just shocking to me. Yeah. Yeah. It's surprising me that I think

he's got that same thing that well, whatever. I don't want to. Yeah, but say that. Yeah. Yeah,

a little. Yeah, I was in a brand right now, and I wasn't making that happen. Or I would also look

at for as a Rita, but anyway, because they, you know, seeing like peso go from Nike to Adidas,

and then it's like Adidas has bad bunny work with them too. So I'm assuming peso

is going to work with a channel for them or with a certain retailer or with a certain product,

but other brands are seeding that whole market to Adidas, and it's a great

demo for them too. There's a lot of them like there's been a lot of people independent people that

don't aren't what Adidas like Kai, you know, how hard is it for an individual person in the

shoe game to bring a shoe to market? Like I'm just going to make it. It's the biggest

period. That's, that's the thing why most people start with soft goods, sneakers with every half

size. It's like you're pouring $50,000 worth of steel into a mold to get that's why you guys

probably have dealt with like, why isn't this in the size 14 and up from the brands I play with or

with, you know, and it's because those shoes cost exponentially more to make because they don't

it's, it's sausage making. Sorry, I got a little too into that, but sneakers have the highest

barrier of entry of any product class. It's, it's definitely, I mean, other than a car or something.

It's difficult to, yeah, you, you have to have a few successes in a row for sure to keep a

going. And mostly sneaker companies, I mean, that was the thing that Kanye was, we had to

help him understand was that like the sneaker companies don't own their own factories. They just

work around the world and find production where they find the best, you know, people with the skill

set for what needs to be made. And so, um, you know, that's, that's no different for any industry. So

like those costs are somewhat fixed. And unless you can serve them upgrade volume, you know,

uh, you, you will have a lot of costs going to be in the old. It's like 50k per half size.

So that's why like when Adidas would do like a fashion shoe or even, I think maybe even with

the 750 when it came out, I can't recall, we did full sizes only. So it's just like a cost efficiency

thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. They're used to four, they're usually four to

14. That's why like certain brands like Air Force, they might go to 20 or a superstar might go

to 20 that you're going to be hard pressed to get like the shoes that use like a Travis. Mm-hmm.

Right, right. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, because the cost is super costly for the, even for a

major to do that, so let alone an independent. Yeah. Let's take it back to young, to young Wix.

Yeah. 2000. I was in the league as well. Yeah. I was with Adidas. Yes. Got a chance to work with

Kobe and Tracy McGrady. Pershing. I actually wore these. Nice. In the star.

Working all star games. Yeah. Yeah. Those are the all star colors. How was it working with those guys?

So I was the, that was my first job in Adidas. This is crazy. 2000. Were you under sunny?

My first order given to me from Jimmy Gatto and who else was running it. Jimmy was obviously

sunny as like dude. We were like in basketball purse and the whole team rivers.

I was told to send 1200 jackets to Sonny's house and then of course like I was at the NCA

and all that stuff because Sonny was like running ABCD, using CD jackets. So yeah, Sonny for sure.

We had a trophy that got handed around to the team for best member called the Tudy. The Tudy.

Best. So yeah, the fam is great. Thank those guys actually. So this shoe, I think we did like 2000 pairs

to these for all star if I'm not mistaken. I was the guy who keyed these in like literally created

the samples, like shipped them to reps. Like that was my job. I was the guy going out Saturday to be

like, what was the unsold? How do we sell more of them? My first shoe before this though is actually

called the Mad Handel, which was made of the same material. I remember that. Yeah, they re-released it

this year with like a big piece in the middle to make it more like bulbous to that whole like trend

that was going on. But yeah, the Mad Handel, and that was TMAX first like unreleased signature or

unsignature signature. But Kobe was like 18 when we did this in 19 and I remember we went and met with

him for an apparel meeting and it was like on the hood of Rob Polinkas car because Polinko was his

agent at the time and like it was in his garage. He didn't want to come to the office. And Kobe was

like trying to tell us about the Coast Guard, like sharks. And so that's where this I think this

color was like something about a shark or something. I remember correct. But John Nichol would remember

that way better than me. But yeah, this shoe special man. I still have the Sunshine One, the metal

mesh one was my favorite. I think Lawrence Norman gave me the red, white, and blue ones to male him

for the All-Star. And then he gave a pair to Lebron I think. Because Lebron was it. Yeah, we were

doing his high school too. I also did those pro models with like the Pat Leathers. Yeah, remember

those? Yeah. That was my brief too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the eight to send is a gang of shit too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Adidas. Adidas. You know, your family, your homeboy. Yeah. Yeah.

And obviously they would give you the spending on on the website too. Yeah. We had those at UCLA.

So we went from Reebok to UCLA. We had a chance to be at Jordan Brand School. But then we became

the biggest Adidas school in the country. I think our sophomore year. So we started getting

all the Kobe's and there was all that kind of. Yeah. I still have a huge archive of it. Like

Kobe and Team Mac, like actually more Kobe stuff though. Like photos of him at ABCD that he

autographed like hard photos. You know, it's like you can't money can't buy type level.

It's crazy. What is it like working with though? I mean, those guys were really young in the space.

And obviously, you know, you're just getting your start in the space. Like, where's the balance

from what they want and being able to actually put something together? Well, the Kobe too is a good

case of that. I think that like which, you know, that was kind of like the end of the Kobe with Adidas

relationship. So I'm not sure who won or who lost on that design part. Because again, I was like the

guy who was like running reports and making sure. I remember when I brought the Tracey McGrady

first shoe to the to the comp scene. They were like, oh my god, we actually have shoes for the

person to wear in the ad we've never had this before. Yeah, that one. I forecasted that one.

Yeah, we wore that one. You see a lot. Yeah. Yeah, that was my favorite one. I got the other

ones when I was with Kobe. I think the Kobe two is the lower top ones. Black white. They

was black and white. Yeah. So when I when he when he came in when the office house, I was like,

those are dope. But he only had him in black and white. And I was like, bro, you got to get some

purple. Some like you got to get some liquor colors on up to us for two weeks later. Boom. Boom.

The autumn yellow and purple ones came out. I still have like six pair in the garage.

I mean, I started wear testing Adidas with the Kobe 97s. That's all I got in there. I was like

playing basketball at the office with the design team. A buddy who designed for them. And I was

wear testing the basketball shoes like Kobe shoes. Not that one. That didn't come out yet. But

yeah, I mean, so from wear testing to designing, I never designed. I was a product marketing guy.

So I was like, here's what's influencing kids. Here's what they're wearing. Here's the prices.

The shopping. And then I'd sit with the design team and development team. And they would concept

products. And we'd give feedback or whatnot. But the designer of that shoe, I think it was Boris

Bertacan. I think did that if I'm not mistaken. Can you give me a little a little story behind the

craze eights? You know, I think about the craze eights with them is why it's called that. Yeah.

I mean, I do. I don't I don't want to wear that story. Okay. Yeah. I know why it's called that. Yeah.

But it has to do with the with the breakup. And just the, you know, the fact that it was such

a iconic model for the for the brand and associated. So heavily with Kobe, but then they broke up.

And I believe it was a bit of trolling that I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. And I it's I got to say.

It was a good shoes. If you see what is happening right now with staff. And you saw what was

happening with Kobe then during that breakup period. Same thing. It's very identical. It's like

different brand every other night. It's like so textbook. Like interesting. You bring that up

because we've been kind of talking. Obviously, this is just we shoot the shit as friends. But if

if you're in Steph's corner, what would you would you tell him to go to one of these Chinese brands

and build something? Or would you jump on and do the Nike like what are those of what's the word

I'm looking for legacy brands type things? What would you if you were? I know you get paid for

this kind of information, but I think my opinion would go against the grain a little bit on this.

I definitely don't think what I'm about to say would earn me any business from SC 30 brand.

But I think there's a way they could well, how does it? Yeah, I think they could do a lot of

different things with them what they're doing now. And I would love to help them.

More me. More me. I was wondering because I I mean, we kind of feel like in this this can be us

saying it and it doesn't have to come out of your mouth, but I mean to think that's with the right

plan and strategy, there's no reason to me. Steph wasn't have a top two or three selling

shoe of all time, the type of player he is, the career he's had, the likeness, the safe,

the safe, the safeness around who he is. And I feel like they kind of respectfully missed the ball

with the underarmer things they were doing. I'm not hitting anything they've done. I'm just

saying me. I'm going forward. I think I could help them. No, I would just say Stoney, we got you

if you want to tap in. They go. You heard it here. No seriousness though. I think that stuff is

obviously like everything he said, he's legendary. Should have a or could have a massive self-sustaining

future-proof business that he's not relying on him playing basketball. And I think that that is

what if I was working with them would be focused on. But as I said earlier, I am not working with

them, so I don't know what they're focused on. But I think they could do great things. And honestly,

with his golf personality and his bat, just the everything of him and the goat film they just

put out all that stuff. I mean, there's a myriad of things that you could do to bring more to that.

But we're fortunate enough that what I'm doing now just to kind of throw that out there is a lot

of this sort of like brand consulting and building things for people, products, brands, launches,

etc. And so I do work with a host of brands that were not allowed to name and athletes that I don't

think were allowed to name. But we've worked on some stuff recently that that just dropped this weekend

and we're very thrilled with all the partners that we've been able to work with us far from the

music space, the sports space, the brand space. And we think that sort of like for a site we have

anticipatory marketing plus like a lot of the stuff I do isn't just like from the hip. We're

actually listening to through the internet to see what people are asking for in order to build

those things. So this weekend we had a host of collectibles that we launched with one of our

partners that we were working with because we had been scouring the internet years ago and found

that adults were searching for these things that made them feel more that sense of heritage and

tradition. And so like collectibles were blowing up with adults, trading cards, weighted stuff

to animals, vinyl toys, etc. And so that's like part of the consideration set for some of the

things that we're doing with certain artists. And then with other artists it's that traditional

merch stuff. And we are doing that now. And yeah, it's been fun for the last year.

Is it any surprise that Kobe shoes and his line remains still at the top of basketball?

I think when you walk the talk, people respond to that and he walked the talk. Like I think that

if Kobe, I mean rest in peace obviously, if Kobe were here right now, if Kobe were coming up

right now, it would be really interesting too. Like I would love to see a guy with his vision

for on court and for off court and his sort of like interests as a person with the internet

today. I mean, and if he had been like one of the younger players coming up, I would have been

curious how he'd be able to like maintain the focus he has, you know, because there's so much more

distraction. But he, I think that like, you know, everyone with the Kobe to the garbage get

everything like it. That thing is in our DNA. Yeah, exactly. How did the partnership with

Pharrell come about? Pharrell, we were working with Nigo. Nigo told Pharrell we were treating them

really nice. I got invited to a room at the Jane Hotel with him. We talked it out. I said,

why do you want to work with Adidas? He said, I'm hearing you guys are really cool to work with.

I love Adidas. I said, I know you don't love Adidas, Pharrell, because I've seen you give away every

pair of shoes that sent you for the last eight years. And he cracked up. He's like, come on man,

I love Adidas. I'm like, come on man, I've seen you give him away. Push everybody you've been

given to. And I sent stuff to push already. So I know you're giving him this. And so he cracked up.

And then we, but he was like, no, I love Adidas. And we talked it out. And then he was super

cool, obviously, and super creative. And actually, we signed that deal well after we signed

Kanye's deal, we launched his products well before. So it was like he was moving in his cohort

with Nigo as he still operates today. And Adidas, fortunately, through the Tokyo office,

established a great relationship with Nigo. And then actually Paul Middleman, I forgot that,

came to work with us in Germany. And he had a great relationship with Nigo and already knew Pharrell

as well. And so yeah, Paul played a central role. What's it? I mean, he, again,

outside looking in, he looks like a super creative, a non-aging human. His touch on culture and

music has been incredible. So it's similar. Obviously, different to Kanye, but as far as just

the creativity and vision similar, I would say the, it's funny, like Pharrell's business savvy

and his understanding of humanity and just way trends operate and all that. And Kanye, they're very

analogous for sure. But obviously, just being independent individuals, as they are, they're just

totally different and how they move and talk and stuff like that, but prolific and every which way.

We didn't get as much exposure with Pharrell's music side as we did on the Kanye side.

It's like most air meetings with him were design session meetings. And where I, you know,

obviously, like I said, I'm not a designer. I'd sit in the room while Rachel and Nick and the

team or whoever was working with him at the time would kind of present stuff to him. And he would

reach out to me if things were frustrating him or if he felt like he wasn't being heard. And we

would go just stay in constant contact through those types of things, just make sure everything's

running smoothly in both directions, which is really my thing. It was just like communicating,

and make sure everyone's like hearing everyone's point of view. It's important.

The NMDs in the UltraBoost era, talk to us about that.

Well, that was a Dita's heyday. I think right now, they're having a similar run with what's

happened with Super Bowl and just the overall aura of what they've been able to accomplish. But

2016, when those shoes hit, was a special moment. And it was like the beginning of a Dita's

market share, not just mind share. Because with Son and Kanye, we were already like talked about a

lot. People started to think about Adidas, but the growth, you know, from those stock prices

earlier that Dylan pulled up, like that really hit from those products because those were widely

accessible. So that was how we kind of commercialize boost. You know, going back to that first

call, a foot locker, when I told him Yeezy was coming in two weeks, I listened for 45 minutes

while the foot locker management from all over the world said we never want to see another box

cover with the word boost on it. We have enough inventory to last us two years. And I'm hearing

that whole time being like, shit, we have boost in our shoe. And then I get on and I'm like, hey,

guys, what's up? And you know, everyone at foot locker came up through the store. And so we've

all been showing shoes to these guys for 10 years. And they've been chucking them at us when they

don't like us, some of our mother's story. But now they're insane. Man, it's like, wax, what's up?

And I'm like, all right, here's the plan for Kanye. We're doing these special pop-ups at your

stores. He's going to come out from behind the curtain with confirmed act when people win.

And the shoe says 750 boost. And they're like, oh my god, this is going to be like one LeBron where

that one shoe, I can't remember, it was like a Nike running shoe, Rochy. Like Rochy's were sitting

LeBron wore it and then Rochy became the shoe. This will help boost sell. So when I think of

ultra boost at NMD, I think of that phone call because there was two years worth of energy boost

inventory sitting on shelf when those launched and had the 750 not come out, what, 5,000 pairs we

dropped by my 80s and 12 of them still there. Those shoes would, yeah. And then those shoes never

would have been allowed in. So it's kind of like this weird ricochet that Yeezy had on that stuff

that I draw a connection to and that the guys who worked and running at the time that I work

closer that also drew the connection to you because I don't know if you remember when we went to

that Bull's game, performed it half time in those boosts. You know, just called me on the way,

he's like, y'all going to perform it half time and he did a thing and he wore this shoe called

Solar Boost. You could see a picture of him. He's wearing like a Jeff Hamilton jacket and he's

got him on the floor. And that next Monday, there was a line of people outside of Foot Locker for

a shoe they've been sitting for four and a half weeks with Austin to get that shoe. So it's like just

and that's when it was like, okay, this is a different thing. Then my cousin ran Nike's website.

He was actually pretty high up over there. And I remember when we signed Kanye, he goes, oh,

you have no idea. Like you have no idea what's going to happen to your website. You're going to crash

your website and I was like, oh, sick. I can't wait. And then the second that happened, it was like

not sick at all. It was really bad. And I learned that that is not something you want to have

happened as a marketing guy. Good, but bad. Good, good, but bad. Yeah. But yeah, it was, it was

a time. But yeah, this like NMD and Ultra Boost to me were like, if you were to look at a demand bubble

as data for easy at Nike because they only sold 3,000 pairs of the shoe they made. And then

you were to look at that demand bubble at Adidas after our 750. And then you were to look at that

demand bubble on the Ultra Boost and the NMD. You would see a clear path of that trend. So

you know, those things didn't happen to the vacuum. They happened as a result of lots of hard work.

And even some thankful that Nike didn't release them in broader fashion. I remember calling them

the day the red October's came out because it was actually this weekend, 20, what, 13, 14, and I had

them under contract already. And I was like, dude, can they do this? And he was like, who cares?

If they sell out, it's great marketing for us. And if they don't, fuck them. I was like, all right,

cool. But like, I was spasin for a sack. I was like, so yeah. Working with push.

The best push. It's the greatest guy. Just quality human. So selective. This is with his words.

And you know, I wish those guys like, I mean, that album and the run they were on just now,

like all that was all that energy and effort they've been building for 10 years again. And

love seeing them back with his brother, you know, having lost my brother two years ago. And knowing

that that first that first song in the album about losing their parents and also lost my father

in the last couple of years. So it was just like, you know, a Texan woman was like, bro, that album

was like meant so much. And you don't even know. And I just recently got reconnected with them,

by the way, I don't mean to be like a Texan. That's so really corny. But yeah, so it was great. And I

love push. And yeah, love everything that he stands for. Honest individual. Always dreamy right.

Work with push since 2012. It's working for a minute or quite a while. Yeah.

I've really caught eye on the creativity because when I came up, I remember shoe commercials

were everything with the athlete. And I really like with Anthony Edwards and been able to do

with his shoe and the campaigns around that. What do you have? What have been your thoughts with that?

I love the energy too. And I think it's cool. Like the, it's funny to see you can almost see

like who's in management at the time, like based on the boundaries they're willing to push into.

Yeah. And they're talking shit too on these commercials too. Yeah. It's great. It's great.

They're being very contemporary in a moment. And, you know, whereas like that's the thing,

I like how they're leaning into that heavily. Whereas with the stuff stuff, I wouldn't,

you know, lean into like swapping brands out every second. You know, like that kind of stuff.

I think that muddies your waters. I think that's great to like go hard in the paint and have a

very defined position, like what they're doing with the ant. And like even the ant farm they built

out here. I thought that was really well-concepted. I don't know if you got a chance to check that out.

They had an activation with the team at Adidas. And he was down there. And it looked cool. It looked like,

you know, it was a, it was really dope. Yeah. I mean, I feel like they match, they match his

intensity, his energy and who he is. Yeah. I mean, that's how you win. Yeah.

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Listen to adventures of Curiosity Co. every Monday from the Black Effect podcast network.

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I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of The Fault in Our Stars and now I guess also

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End, we'll share with you the magic of international football all leading up to the 2026 world cup.

For us, soccer, football is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player

on our high school soccer team very debatable and I was their most loyal and sometimes

only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak and above all its beauty.

Together we'll find out why of all the unimportant things football, soccer is the most important.

Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alagone and John Green on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts

or wherever you get your podcasts. Of late, it seems that Nike's been struggling. People

haven't been able to innovate as much as we've seen in the past. What's kind of your thought on

their state and where do you feel like they've lost ground at? I think Nike for the last years

they went through their, you know, the sneaker industry is tough to turn on and on. It's 18

month product cycle. So decisions made that are coming out now are from whatever they could jam

in to fill a gap for whatever they were lacking to that decision they made in 24. So Nike's

an aircraft carrier. They're not a speedboat. You know what I mean? They can't just like turn

the corner on the dime. But I actually think what they just pulled off here, it reminded me

somewhat of complex con in 2016 when they did the V loans every day and they were even those out

and they had shoot broccoli, track broccoli. They had him in there doing the MCN camera's name.

The guy that Drake took the broccoli song from. Yeah, what's that dude's name? Yeah, you know,

I'm talking about, yeah. Yeah, they had him doing the MCN. But they had those V loans there and we

had a Ferrell setup, but Kanye had been sick and so we didn't have like product, you know,

because we didn't have him approved stuff while he was coming out of the hospital after that

event in 2016. So we didn't have product for right then. And they kind of

brought energy to that moment and I kind of feel like what Foot Locker and the brands are doing

here and all the people that activate a league, Lucodon chick, etc. did amazing things. But I kind

of feel like Nike had a brand Jordan too. They had a nice weekend. And I, you know, not to say

that like, you know, basketball is game momentum. Like I feel like they kind of did some nice

stuff here and if they continue to kind of play to the new era, then they can perform. I think

what has happened is there's maybe, I don't want to get any trouble. I obviously don't, I respect

what everyone is doing. But I think there's just like the game has changed. And you can't launch

a brand and just stick a bunch of money on it now and think that product will sell. You have to

actually develop a community and then start offering that community access points that include

product, but also experiences. And I think Nike better than anyone has the has the infrastructure

for that. So they're set up for success. So you're saying often specific authenticity now is

more important feel than it's ever been. Community access and authenticity. Absolutely. Because

kids are so savvy now with all the tools available. And they know there's followers of fake. And like

also, you know, there's no way to grow your audience anymore because the algorithm will just

cap you. It's the only thing that people will really share is stuff that is authentically

quoted. So it's, yeah, I think that that's like step one, but yeah, 10 years ago, you could

drop a brand like here's the product. Here's TV. It will sell. Now it's not interesting. What do you

could say your biggest failure for your great and your creative life? I think trying to man. So I

think that in the last four years, instead of taking the right time to mourn family members who

were passing, I tried to manage too much at once. I was always one of those guys. I'll never

get something I can't handle. And it was something I couldn't handle. And so I think that I should have

just been man enough to accept. I couldn't handle it. Instead of trying to like tough my way through

my dad dying and just power into my brother's situation and not, you know, appropriately respect the

time. I don't know if that's really my creative life or just my life, but at a certain point,

they kind of intertwine anyway. But I'd say about a year ago, my head kind of cleared. And I was

able to, you know, after taking time, well, you know, because, you know, you got to give yourself,

if you don't take care of yourself, no one else will kind of thing, right? And so I think that,

you know, obviously, and then also with whatever happen to Kanye recently, like it's obviously

super unfortunate to break up with the Deedas and having sacrificed so much of my life and my kids

time, like spending time with my family to build that thing, you know, moving to Cody or being on

the road for 30 days a month and missing every weekend for a long time. And you know, you look

back at that and you're like, man, wish that it stayed intact because that should have lived forever.

But yeah, I think that, you know, those are my only real, like feelings. I think that every failure

is a learning and every misstep is just another chance to kind of get up, dust yourself off and keep

going. I'm, I'm, I'm failing to because I had a lot of loss to and I'm still dealing with the

same way. Yeah, I haven't found another way to deal with this only one way. Well, you're clearly

telling that there's like one of those amazing situations. I appreciate it. I feel like most of

the time with loss because we've all had it. We try to feel our plate with more to do to take our

mind off the loss instead of taking the proper time to digest it, understand it, more in it,

talk about it. I think that's something we all do. Itch you. Yeah, heavy. Totally. Absolutely

condolences. By the way, I appreciate your losses. Yeah, you know, it's crazy actually when we were

putting some product together, one of the vendors sent a furnished image of my brother to us and it

fell into my hands when we were talking about it. So I was like, oh, meant to be. He's right here.

There you go. No, but like, yeah, the the Ls are just wins. I was at Converse actually for two years

from 2004 to 2006. After Nike bought them, they sent me out there and I was running like some

marketing for them and we had to wait and wait for shoe. And that was when we did this knockdown

seven times stand-up eight. Yeah. Yeah. And this was the flash stuff too. Yeah, the knockdown seven

stand-up eight. I've always believed in that. It's got to get out. This is the people who keep going

that end up in those spots. Like everyone just gives up on themself. Listen to that voice in their head.

It says you can't do it. You're not good enough. That's all. That's just seeds of doubt you shouldn't

ever self-doubt on yourself, you know. What's something every creative girls do that they never

talk about? Fear. Fear of release. Not, you know, the world having its opinion on your on your

point of view. And that's why a lot of these artists like it's very difficult to get them to

approve a final product because once you put it out in the world, it's out there. And that's

also why Virgil was so special because he was also one of those people who was like, I actually

am cool with this going out there to get the opinions of even if it's slightly unfinished or

intentionally slightly unfinished to give the final person that chance to put their peace on it,

you know. But I think fear goes through a lot of people's heart like especially the higher these

people ascend and status of creativity. They have to be teflon. You know, you hear these stories of

like terabytes of albums on hard drives that'll never be released by the biggest of the big artists.

And, you know, I mean, I'm sure Cobboy Carter was from a year ago and she was just waiting,

you know, because obviously there's a place and time factor to move. So it's like, you got Cobboy

Carter? Okay, this is the time and then it's like the biggest thing in the world, you know. But I,

you know, I think that'll leave us on was there when we worked with that. Pretty sure.

Question real quick, we haven't we haven't really got a chance to discuss them but talk to us a

little bit about Virgil and what he was like in your upwork with him. I respected Virgil as a

close guy for sure. I didn't I was not as close to the Donda guys as the so Justin Saunders Virgil

all the team for the Donda crew. I got to know them better through the partnership but you know,

I'm from the Chicago suburbs, Virgil's from the Rockford or whatever and like Jerry was promoting

shows in Chicago. Like I'd known who all those dudes were and obviously Ivan was in there.

But I would get on a Donda call here or there and it was sort of like the discussions were related

to our business and then I wasn't really adding any value. But Virgil would speak a lot in those

calls. He was just like an Uber creative guy and he was there to encourage others to like

share their opinions. And then when he would come to the office, I would just check in with him to

make sure I was reading the room right and hearing what I was supposed to be hearing because he was

the best at sort of, I remember I called him so Kanye called me two weeks before season one

in that was supposed to be New York and you know New York 2015 February it's negative 30 degrees

and he says to me forget the show we've been planning for a month and a half. I want to tear it all

up on a bill of roller coaster five stories high. It's going to be me and my friends and we're

going to ride around. It's going to be me Virgil in the front. We're going to wear all the clothes

while all the models in roller coaster. And instead of like getting into a discussion with him, I was

like, all right, cool. Let me go talk to the team and I hung up the phone and I just called Virgil.

And I was like, is this like his creative process? Like what's going on? He goes, yeah,

just let him work through it. It says always like the guy that I'll just kind of check in with to

be like, I don't know how volatile is this really versatile like creative? Like where is this on

that bracketing? And it was all good. Like an hour later, we're back doing the show and it came

out so great. It's well focused at a roller coaster. What about his website? Because you know,

he has the website. Everything is on there. Yes, start a Shopify. I remember it well.

Is that a true, is that a creator's true test? Like at the highest level of creative, like,

fuck it, I'm going to just give it all the way. So that whole thing about building in public was like

the secret sauce, you know, like easy Virgil, all those guys, there was no marketing budget.

So at a Shopify it is, wow, my memory is really good. So I was at Shopify when this happened.

So anyway, at this moment in time, the whole way to create, this was his way of creating community.

He was built in public. He would invite creatives into his house. Here's tools for you to use.

Here's mine. Here's what I did. Go take it further. You know, and so going to it again,

this was his community and how they, people still refer to this. High school kids still use this,

business professionals still to this day, because those are the codes. And like for him,

this was a profuse thank you from me for saying Shopify there at the time. And yeah, I was definitely

trying to build some special things with him. And when he obviously got sick, it was terrible.

And I remember calling Kanye to be like, is this real? Because we were like midstream,

at that point of time after leaving Adidas, I was at Shopify and we were launching easy gap stuff for him.

I was doing that for him then. And Virgil, I didn't even know he was sick and he was like,

in our meetings or in calls with me, not Kanye. So obviously all his real close friends didn't know him.

That's what I mean. Like I knew Virgil, but I wasn't like nucleus with him. You know what I mean?

But yeah, this thing, like if you were to follow this right now, you know,

you can build, you can build it. And that was, you know, easy at zero marketing too.

But only marketing was people wearing the stuff that we gave it to and sharing these codes with

people through that like dog whistle stuff. Virgil was just more avert. But yeah, I love this site.

I forgot about it. But yeah, I'd bet by paper cutter them for that mention a Shopify.

Yeah, it's all good.

What is the secret to developing trust with your partners?

I mean, I, you know, I think just telling the truth and also being willing to take the L for your

word. You know, I mean like Kanye, I think that was the real trust factor with him was like,

if I gave him my word, even if it was going to cost me pain to execute it. I mean, not physical

pain, but like, you know, going back internal and saying dates change or going back internal and

saying, here's what we're doing now. And like no disrespect intended whatsoever, all these brands

are the same. They're all set up as for lack of better term, their factories can make what they make,

their cookie cutters. And you know, you bring in these creative people and their milkshakes,

they don't work that way. So it's like you have to be able to take those same

infrastructural pieces and sort of set them up in a different order to satisfy the thing coming in.

And so that takes just a bit of like Kanye used to say, man, I know you're getting killed internally

for me. Thank you. You know, like that kind of stuff, because it was a lot of like asking for more.

Like the beginning was sort of like energetic, right? We didn't know what we had. It was exciting.

Everything was working. It was great. We couldn't go wrong. But then it like turned after season three

where he was almost larger than the world PR was like forget it. He was bigger than Frankie,

and he was all of them combined. And then it was like a different level of pressure to do more.

You know what I mean? And that was where that really, really got going. So yeah, just

you know, maybe sacrificing my own ego. Kanye always said, you know, go back to the first thing

you asked me, you're super power. Is it you know how to be loud in a room and you know how to be

small in a room? And so when you speak, people listen because they know you're being selective

without your offering. You're not just John about stuff that you know nothing about.

And the other thing that he also said was I was the adult in the room. So it's a funny story.

And since this is somewhat this is a Jason's like what we're talking about. We're out in

Aspen and we're watching NBA game. And there's one of the ball brothers was his rookie year and he

just said he was like playing. I think he was on the bulls. And everyone on Kanye's team was

dis now. He was playing. And then it got to me. And I was like, didn't he just have a triple double

last week? He was like the youngest player in the league to ever have one. And he's like, that's

what I love about you. Dude, you're always the adult in the room. Like you only speak with the facts.

Like these dudes are like, look at how he moves and stuff like that. So it's like kind of just

reason and being straight up. Being who you are. Yeah, just being comfortable with yourself and just

everything flows when you're being honest, right? Like you don't have to make shit up.

Is ego necessary for greatness? Yeah. Because you have to almost be willing to create a reality

distortion field around yourself and believe in what you're doing so fully that no matter

how many people tell you, it will not work. You have to keep going. And I don't know how you do that.

Maybe it's not ego as much as passion, but I think there's a bit of both there.

Because when everyone's telling you you're wrong and you're the only one in the room saying

you're right, you know, you got to believe in yourself. The next two questions I bought you by

StockX, your trusted source for the most covered drops. Top five basketball sneaks all the time of

you, man. Good question. You guys want me to answer that? Wow. This one, I would have loved

up front. No, I'm just joking. Top five basketball sneakers all the time. I got to go with

Kobe one, T-Mac one, just because I worked on them. Come on, man. It's your list.

I'm going to go with the Kobe Pro Tro, and then I'm going to go with the D-Wade one,

because I also was over there then. I don't know, the Jordan one. Jordan three. I can't take it.

I can't. Two, three, one. One of the first three, Jordan.

Did you ever win Dwayne Lawrence on the conference? Dwayne Lawrence, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

And Eric Miller, yeah, for sure. Dwayne is, I think he just retired from the game.

Yeah, he's been over in China. He's like rapping and stuff. He's in there.

Yeah, he's a sweetheart. I used to bring him Chinese food and maybe work in my wife, for sure.

I stayed in touch with those guys. Eric Miller is back in Portland, I think, too.

Yeah, they're the best. But yeah, basketball sneakers are so tough because, like,

I just want to say Chuck Taylor, Pro Leather, like the Air Force one, like this stuff I grew up with,

but they've evolved so much. And like that Kobe Pro Tro to this day, you know, it's like,

so it's tough. It's tough to say there's so much competition there. Oh, what am I saying? And

I should have shot it out of Dita's, too. Jesus, all those guys are going to fucking stop

being my friends now. Oh, God. Sorry. Do you have a gold fashion designer?

I just honestly, man, I like blanks. I like the stuff that we're doing. I like the simplest things.

Fashion to me is like, it's almost like a decorative, you know, the way that fashion is supposed to

work is that it's almost like, it's called ready to wear for a reason. You almost can't wear it.

It's like not, you can't purchase it at the moment. It's not available. You have to wait

whatever. It's super expensive. So I like things that are actually accessible. And so,

you know, obviously the stuff we did for season one was my favorite thing that I was ever a part of.

I think that that there's a lot of like young up and common brands right now and designers right now

that are that are starting to do cool and amazing stuff. But for the life of me, I can't think of

any of them. I'll start weekends. Got me on fumes right now.

Can you believe you're a member of that? No, I swear. And the problem is they're all going to

fucking kill me. Oh, ETA LA. I would definitely say ETA is doing some really cool stuff. He

show me this crazy 3D printed t-shirt design that he's doing. Our company is test lab. We are

doing some amazing stuff as well. We are just building for others though. And yeah, I think that

like right now fashion is kind of like moving away from streetwear. It's going back to that really

formal fashion performance for performative like costumey stuff. And so I think that like hopefully

skate is going to start seeing that come back. I love the basketball shoes started to sell again.

It feels like that that like you know that baggy jeans thing and that early 90s thing that's

been going on for a while starting to turn to. So yeah, I think that a lot of young brands have an

opportunity to disrupt stuff. It's just like who's going to take the risk. What do you think about

this statement? It's not what you have on is who has it on. I would completely agree with that

because the world is flat now. So it's like if you have a lot of money, you can buy cool stuff and

you can stunt like you're actually cool. But there's a lot of style to I mean, like these sweats

are like why three two two thousand and four, right? But people will come up and be like, bro,

can you style me? And it's just because I'm wearing some like ratty sweats from 12 years ago. But

they're the most comfortable sweats I have. And people like, I need those. So it's like the

but if you looked at them, you just think they're like golf wear, you know, for like rain. You know,

I mean, but it's like, dude's that know the shit know the shit. And even like Travis, he's got a

full deal of Nike. He goes to a World Cup or what was that? F one thing and that Y three jacket.

You know, I mean, it's like it is in how you how you wear stuff and how you how you combine things

and your personal attitude toward it. It's like if you're wealthy, yeah, you can buy all those

fresh things but still be corny, corny way. Yeah, yeah, in fact, I know a lot of them.

One piece of advice you can give a young creative trying to break through.

No self-downtalk. Trust yourself. Keep going even when everyone tells you you can't

and be willing to take a few losses in order to find the right path because a loss is just a

a turning point. It's not that dead end. I mean, my first hip hop show I promoted. I lost

$13,000. The Tribe Called Quest, or no, I'm sorry, it was Cybersil a funk dubious and the label

threw in an artist because they ripped my head off. You know what I mean? We sold out the place

and lost everything. The second show we did Tribe Called Quest, they all sold souls and mischief

in 1993 sold out of the place. My partner bought a Harley Davidson afterward. You know what I mean?

Because we got the equation right. But like you got to learn and like when you're trying, oh that's

the other thing. When you're trying something new, you are always going to be the dumbest person

in the room. So if you're willing to listen to the others in the room while you're in it and soak

up all that information and get exposure to it so that you can actually do the thing that you've

read about on the internet because reading about something on the internet does not create expertise.

One album you can listen to on repeat besides supersilot.

What have I been listening to on repeat lately?

I think I've been going on like Wu Tang 36 Chambers lately on Sanpa. I've been listening

to a lot of, I just listened to VSOP on repeat a lot lately. I don't know why that song has just

been like in my head a lot. I can't remember the name of the artist right now for some reason.

That's tipping my tone. But yeah, I've just been going through a lot of 90s hip hop recently.

And I've had that New Dela album on repeat and the clips album on repeat nonstop. And obviously

also the Freddie gives most recent album on repeat. Freddie gives and actually Dela and all those

guys. I mean shit, every single one of those albums. I love all those guys. I was at Adidas. We're

supporting Freddie gives football team and Gary. We were sending them all the stuff. That's why you

always wear the stuff on the album covers. Don't have it. Yeah, but those are the albums. I'm just

like depends on the mood. If you could see one guest on our show Who Would It Be? But you have

to help us get your answer on the show. If I could see one guest on the show Who Would It Be?

But you got to help us. It's got to be in your roller dex. I know that's the hell of a roller

dex you said no. Yes, love. I would love to see. Have you guys have that push on the show,

right? That push would be sick. Also, I mean, obviously, I mean, you guys have had snoop. So whatever,

yeah, he's the best. He's obviously the coolest in the room. But like push just the way he is so

thoughtful and the way that he really shares information and he's got so many stories. That whole

thing with the Drake thing with Adidas and how that went down and you know, like his beef with

Drake at that time and that, which Adidas had nothing to do with. Yeah, I think push would be

the best. I mean, John, thank you for your time and obviously your contribution to culture.

Appreciate it. And always kind of be in the behind the scenes guy. Obviously, you know,

being willing to do a little, you know, collapse capsule with us for all star. Hopefully, that's

just the beginning of our partnership. So hopefully after this interview, we'll see you in

Steph Curry's corner. Yeah, from our mouth to guys ears. We're here to help everyone to be on

us. It's not just Steph. We're agnostic. Yeah. Shout out to the team this in here that helps you

help show your greatness. We appreciate you guys too, man. But again, thank you for your time.

Hope you enjoyed all the star and thanks for stopping by, man. I can't appreciate you guys

enough. Huge fan of show. And thank you for the opportunity.

Appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Wexler. Thanks. Wex.

You can catch this on all the smoke YouTube and the draft Keynes Network. That's a wrap on

all star. Let's go, uh, let's go medicaid. On the adventures of Curiosity Co. podcasts,

what if the right fit isn't what everyone expects? In the case of the right fit,

Alex explores movement, confidence, and belonging, and learns that not all strength looks the same.

This women's history month story introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves

and moving differently. Listen to adventures of curiosity code every Monday from the Black

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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.