Kelsey Fitzsimmons Trial: Lieutenant Sean Daley — "Kelsey, Don't Do It" — First Witness Testimony

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Your listening to the trial of Kelsey Fitzsimmons from the Hidden Killer's podcast and true crime today.

Now, back to the courtroom.

Sir, in a loud collage voice, can you please introduce yourself?

It's about your first name and your last name.

My name is Sean Daley, S-E-A-N-D-A-L-E-Y.

And, sir, what do you do for a living?

I'm a lieutenant with the North-Handwood Police Department.

How long have you been a North-Handwood Police Department?

Twenty years.

Twenty years?

Can you tell us, bring us from the beginning of your career to present day.

And you started as a patrolman?

Yes, I started in 2003.

I attended the Police Academy 2003 with Boston College.

I worked there till 2007.

I was hired as a reserve in North-Handwood over in 2005.

So I was doing both jobs at that point in time.

And then I left BC when I got the full-time job in North-Handwood.

Okay.

Can you take us to your career path at North-Handwood over?

Yeah.

I was on patrol for maybe six months.

And then I went into the...

I filled in as the XR out of the school for about a year and a half.

And it was in detectives for about nine years.

Seven and a half or so, which was...

I was assigned a drug task force with the Drug and Force Administration.

I ended up...

I got promoted to sergeant 2016 and then lieutenant two years ago.

So what is your role as a lieutenant now?

I oversee the early night shift, the four to twelve shift.

Four to twelve shift?

Okay.

Now I'm going to turn your attention to June 30th of last year.

Were you working on that day?

I was.

And at some point after the shift started, did you find yourself in the lobby?

Yes.

Okay.

And did you meet anybody there?

Yes.

Okay.

Can you tell us about that?

Justin Yalien in his sister came into the station in on the lobby.

He had a copy of his training order.

Okay.

And did you know who he was in connection to the North end of a police department?

Yes.

Who was that?

He's a firefighter in town.

He was also Kelsey Fitzsimmons' fiancee.

Okay.

Kelsey Fitzsimmons, do you see her in the courtroom today?

I do.

And you just point to her and describe something she's wearing, please?

She's wearing a pink jacket.

May the record deflect.

He has identified the defendant.

And so what was her role as a...

As far as the town goes?

She was a police officer with North end of her.

Do you know when she started?

In 2024.

I'm exactly sure one.

But yes.

And what was her role when she started in the police department?

She was a patrol officer.

Oh, was she a patrol officer back in June of 2025?

Yes.

Okay.

Now, do you know if, on June 30th of 2025,

she was issued a service weapon?

On June 30th?

Yes.

Did she have one?

She did.

Okay.

Do you know if she had any other firearms that were registered to her?

Yeah.

I believe so, yes.

According to the...

She just picked out when we ran her prior to going over serving it.

I believe there are two other firearms that she'll have.

Okay.

Can you tell us a little bit about the basic procedure

of what a restraining order is?

And what you do as a police officer when you get a copy to serve?

The two-on-one A order is a...

It's a court order issued by a judge.

If somebody's, you know, in a fear of harm,

they're safe there.

There's been a pattern of abuse or whatever.

They would go in front of a judge.

They'd write out an affidavit describing what is taking place

where they would potentially be granted an order.

And they go in front of a judge.

And I believe this question is asked.

I've never actually been in the courtroom when they go to get it.

But that's why I believe for a judge,

either grants it or denies it.

So, on June 30th of 2025,

a judge ordered a restraining order to be served on misfits in it.

Yes.

Did you know how did you guys get it?

How did the PD get it?

It comes through our email to the OIC at NAPDWS.

I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.

It comes through our email system.

Through the courts.

The court sends it to, I believe every police department is like that.

You use some letters through the OIC at NAPDWS.

It's short for officer charge.

Yes.

Okay.

And all the supervisors get it.

Okay.

So, you got it?

Yes.

Okay.

Did you know that Mrs. Simmons had a small child?

Yes.

Were you able to review the contents of the restraining order itself?

Not the affidavit, but what the court ordered?

Yes.

Okay.

So, what was the court ordering?

Well, she used to have no contact with Justin and Yaelian or the child.

Couldn't go to, she couldn't go within a hundred yards of the residents in another town.

I believe where his parents live.

She has to run her firearms license to carry.

I could have no contact with them.

As a result of getting that, were you yourself going to serve it?

Yes.

Were you going to bring anybody else?

Yes.

Okay.

Did you make a decision as to who to bring?

Yes.

Why?

Based on their experiences, the way they've performed in the past, they're both conquering collected.

And they demonstrated that throughout their careers.

Okay.

And who are we talking about?

Patrick Noonan in Timothy Houston.

So, what did you do to get in contact with that?

I called Tim Houston on the phone.

I asked him to drive by Kelsey Fitzgerald's residence to see if the vehicle was there.

He drove by.

The vehicle was parked away from the house by the Atkinson School over in the corner of the parking lot.

He saw the car and then I asked him to call Pat Noonan or get in touch with Pat Noonan.

And I would meet them over at the early childhood center.

From that point, you could still see her car where he was situated.

But she wouldn't have been able to see the cruisers.

Okay.

So, did you do that?

Yes.

Did you make your way over to the meetup spot?

I did.

And who was there when you got there?

Patrick Noonan in Timothy Houston.

Did you formulate a plan as to how you were going to serve the order?

Yes.

Okay.

And what was that?

So, I explained the order to both of them.

But I'm not exactly what we were there to do.

Explain that we had to deal with the custody of the child or the exchange also.

And that she had firearms in the house.

We're going to have to seize those.

Did you make a plan with Justin Allayan concerning the child?

Yes.

What was that?

I took his full member.

Before I left, I told them to stay in the lobby of the police department until I called them.

When I called them, he'd come over to pick up the child.

Did you make your way over to the residence?

Yes.

And what was that address?

Do you remember?

No.

No problem.

How did you get there?

It's Phillips Brooks Roller.

I'm not sure the number.

Was it 125 maybe?

That sounds familiar.

Yes.

I'm sorry.

What road?

Phillips Brooks.

Is that two words?

Yes.

Thank you.

How did you get there from where you originally met up with Newton and Houston?

We drove.

Okay.

Where did you park?

We parked in a school parking lot, but if you were looking at her house, it would be over on the right side of the house.

There's some trees and fencing there.

We parked right over there.

And did you walk over?

We did.

All three of you?

Yes.

Tell us what happened when you got to the house.

We walked up to the house.

I believe I ran the bell and knocked on the door and she came out holding the baby.

And when you say she?

Kousey fits him and she came out holding the baby.

And so can you tell us about your initial interaction with her?

I.

Kousey opened the door.

I told her that we picked the documentation for her and if we come in, she lives coming.

Did you tell her what the documentation was originally?

Acted the door?

Yes.

Okay.

So where did you go in the house?

So when you walk in that door, it's like a front or in and close front porch area.

We walked into there.

Then the like the front door, the main part of the house is there.

We entered that.

Like if you go to the left there, it's like a living room.

We went into that room.

Okay.

Did you direct her to go anywhere when you got into that room?

Yes.

So I asked her to put the baby in.

There was like a little boxy rocker.

Next to the couch and I asked her to have a seat on the couch.

Why did you ask her to put the child down?

Justin had told us that he had concerns just in the alien told us that he had concerns that she would potentially harm the baby, us or anyone else.

I didn't want her to do anything or be able to do anything with the child.

Did she sit down?

She did.

Did you then have a conversation with her about why you were there?

Yes.

Can you tell us what you said and what she said?

I handed her the restraining order and explained it to her.

That Justin had gotten a 298 order against her.

Okay.

And did you explain the orders that were contained in the restraining order itself?

Yes.

What did you say?

Well, I told her she wasn't allowed to have contact with him.

Couldn't go near the residence.

She was going to have to turn her firearms over in Justin had custody of the baby until the hearing.

When you say the residence, it wasn't the residence where she was living.

It was something.

Yeah, whatever Justin listed it.

Justin and the alien listed in address.

I believe on the document.

Okay.

When you mentioned that you were going to need to seize her guns, did she respond to that at all?

If what I said we were taking her guns?

Yeah.

No, I then asked her where are your guns?

And what did she say?

She said they were in the basement, the safe.

In a safe in the basement?

Yes.

Did you say anything about a return court date that you would be able to attend?

Yeah, the hearing?

Yes.

What did you say?

Whatever the date was on the, it was, I believe it was like 12 or so days later.

Did you respond to that at all when you said that?

No.

Do you know as part of being a lieutenant at the North Amidoba Police Department, and being a superior officer to the Smithitt Simmons,

has she had occasion, if you know, to serve restraining orders herself in the past?

Yes.

She has?

Yes.

Well, what happened after you explained it to her and she told you her guns were in the basement?

Then I explained that I was going to contact Justin to come over and pick up the baby.

Okay.

Did she say anything if you remember in response to that?

To what?

I'm sorry.

Repeat it.

Sure.

You had told her that Justin was coming to the house to get the baby, correct?

Yes.

Did she say anything in response to that?

No.

She didn't have any, she said she was agreeable to her.

Okay.

Did she use her phone at all?

She called her mother on herself.

Um, what happened next?

Sorry, sorry to interrupt her.

Excuse me.

Just, uh, Smithitt Simmons is the defender and she cannot see the witness.

Oh, can she kind of move her over here, Judge?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

I want her to be able to see.

Yeah.

Of course.

And I absolutely, we could move, um,

maybe you folks lie down a little bit.

Is it because of the angle of her?

The computers.

The computers.

Oh, the computers.

Okay.

So it's, it's important that you in all counsel are able to see everything.

Okay.

Thank you.

Can you see?

Right.

I can't see.

Yeah.

Um, you may have to sit two rows back there.

I don't, I don't think that there's much that we can do about it.

Maybe you can move the table up for something.

Yes.

Oh, it's.

Yeah.

There's.

Yeah.

There's.

There's.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What's going on here?

Yeah.

Oh.

Yeah.

Thank you.

We're done.

Okay. Council, you're upset. Everyone set the back row? Hold on, what's that? This

more reality, can you see? Yes, thank you. Okay, Mark, thank you.

So what happened next? She called her mother. She called the mother. Okay, yeah. Did she

ask if she could gather anything for the baby? Yes. Okay, and so tell us about that.

She asked if she could get some items for the baby, so the baby started getting fussy

and like the bouncy chair. Pat noon and off-synomed and it upholds the baby for a little bit.

And Tim Houston and I went around with Mr. Atseman's into the kitchen first. She opened some

drawers. There were some like jars and formal bottles, what not that she was grabbing and

putting in a bag. And then we came around. She went upstairs to the bedroom where the

shooting occurred. I was with her. She walked in, looked around. We walked back out, went

back down the stairs and then she went into the room. If you're looking at the house,

it'd be the room on the right. They'd have like storage shelves along the wall. There were

some diapers and other things like that. And she grabbed them. Okay. Why did you escort her around?

Because it's serving in order like that. You don't let anyone, I mean, we could throw the house,

we could throw movements. Okay. So you wouldn't let her be in a room by herself,

not her out of your sight. Correct. Okay. What were you looking for as she was walking around the house?

Any potential weapons. So now she's back downstairs in the room to the right if you come

in the door. Correct. Yep. She's gathering belongings. What happens after that?

So she started getting a little bit emotional for a second saying she was on a loser job,

et cetera. And I told her to relax, take a deep breath. You got to let the process play out,

maybe cool heads prevail. And she actually kind of settled down a little bit.

So what happened after you had that conversation? I called Justin to come to the house

and her mother showed up right around that point. Who had the baby when her mother showed up?

Officer Houston had the baby when her mother showed up. Was there a hand off at that point?

When her mother showed up? Yep. Yeah. The mother took the baby from Officer Houston.

Okay. So what happened next?

Her and her mother were in the family room. She showed her mother the 29A order.

The statement was made that we were taking her baby. So we're not taking your baby,

Justin is. And she ended up going back upstairs with Officer Newman and Officer Houston.

Okay. And you stayed downstairs? I did. Okay. At some point did Mr.

Elaine arrive? Yes. Okay. Can you tell us about that?

So Mr. Elaine arrived with his sister. They came in the house and Kelsey was upstairs in the bedroom

with Officer Newman and Officer Houston. I had the sister take the baby out to the vehicle

and Justin grabbed some things and went out. He came back into like the

porch area, the enclosed porch area, asked if he could go grab a suitcase and some items because

and there was also he had asked also because she had his wallet and some other items from the weekend.

He had asked if he could get those too when Kelsey had agreed to give those back to him or give them to him.

So he had left the house. Excuse me. Do you know her name to be Courtney?

Elaine? Yes. Elaine, excuse me. And she took the baby outside.

Yes. Justin went out initially but then came back and asked permission to come back in the house.

He went out carrying some items and then he came back up and asked if he could retrieve some

things, including a suitcase in the basement. Okay. And did he go down the basement?

He did. Okay. After he went down in the basement,

who was upstairs? Both Officer Houston, Officer Nooran and Kelsey Fritzman. Okay.

At some point, did Officer Houston come down? He did. And where did he go, do you remember?

Officer Houston came down the stairs and told me that Mr. Simmons didn't want

Justin in the house so I told him to go around to the basement to basically hold him there

because we didn't want him interacting. So he was Officer Houston. We're going to hold Justin

in the alien at the door over there, which is around the backside off the kitchen.

Okay. And Officer Nooran is still up to the stairs overseeing the defendant.

Yes. What happened next?

Maybe a minute later, I'm down in the family room with

Kelsey's mother and the child. They're over by the couch. She's holding the baby. I'm standing

right basically on the wall of where if you pivot around the stairs or be to go upstairs and the

front door opens kind of funny. So I was just standing there waiting and then I heard Officer Nooran.

Was the baby still in the house? Sorry, the baby was gone at that point.

A baby was gone at that point. Okay. So how close are you?

So she, Kelsey's mother is still downstairs in the living room or family room with me.

She's over by the couch and I was standing by the wall.

By the wall and then the closest to the staircase to go up the stairs.

Okay. Did you ever hear Officer Nooran or anybody else start to come down the stairs at all?

After Officer Houston came down? Yes. No.

What happened next? What happened? I heard Officer Nooran

call out like a lot of authoritative voice. Kelsey don't do it. Don't do it. Kelsey.

Okay. And what happened next?

Hold on, I'm going to take a second. Okay.

What's that? Thank you. Did you hear anything after that?

Dunshots. How many of you remember? Two.

Coming from upstairs? Yes. So where did you go after that when you heard that?

So when I heard Officer Nooran call out, Kelsey don't do it. Don't do it. Kelsey, I

pivoted, looked up the stairs and started running up the stairs. When did you hear the gunshots?

Well, I was moving up the stairs. Officer Nooran was he at the top of the landing?

He was at the top of the landing in the frame of the, like the basically standing at the frame of the

bedroom door. Okay. What did you do when you got to the top of the stairs? I looked in the room.

And what did you see? Mr. Simmons was laying down. She was on the floor.

If you look at the room, she was from the doorway. She was on the opposite side of the room.

Head closest to the wall. Feet closest to us. And she appeared to be injured? Yes. So what did you do as a

result of that? I immediately went into the room. Got up there. When I got up to her, I could see the

gun. She had a firearm down to buy her left leg. So I picked the gun up, put it on the bed,

on between her and the bed, and then we started dealing with it, like rendering it.

Where was Officer Nooran at this point? In the bed. Did you have your gun out? No.

Did he have his gun out? Yes. Okay. Do you know what happened to the gun on the bed?

You got on the bed at some point when we were when I was wrapping, trying to wrap

Gauss around her. Officer Nooran picked it up and I believe he handed it off the court.

Okay. Officer Nooran handed it off the court, COR.

Did you? Can you describe the injuries that you saw?

Yes. So she had a gunshot wound to her chest or lower, between the abdomen and the chest,

like right below like the breastplate. And when I rolled it over to her side, I could see in the back

it would appear to be an exit wound. Were the first responders, other first responders called?

Yes. Who called them? Do you remember? I got on the radio.

So basically right pretty fast saying that we shot fired female down and you know,

we need medics or something to that effect. And I believe other people also were on the air.

Was the defendant saying anything when you got in the room?

When I got into the room, really? When she's on the ground? Yes.

Yeah. She kept saying, I'm sorry and I want to die.

Fire personnel arrive? Yes. They take our way.

In it. What did you do with the scene if anything at that point?

At that point, we were calling people to come to the scene.

Okay. Did you secure it? Yeah. What happened with the gun? If you know, what happened with the gun

that fit Simmons add next to her when you walked into the room? Do you know where that ended up?

Yeah. So if you came up the stairs at the top of the stairs, there were some shelving with

some police equipment. There was a, like a gun safe on the floor right there and officer

corps made the weapon safe, put it in the gun safe and basically stood over it till the teams

relieved.

Joe, Joe, I just want to lodge an objection to whether or not that testimony is based on personal

knowledge or not. I just, I don't want the witness's testifying to, you know, things that they've

learned at the investigation. There's been no preface for what the question is. Did you see that?

You know, how does he know that? So I just want to take the opportunity right here to object to

anything that's just sort of global testimony versus something witness perceived.

All right. So you'd rephrase it, I guess. Just a great, the most efficient way for me to handle

objections is, you know, Jack and I certainly understand what your reasoning is, but

you have to object at the time and I'll make a decision. Are you moving it to strike any?

I am moving a strike and ask for a rephrase to whether or not the quits based on personal knowledge.

Okay. And not your fault, my fault, but what are you moving to re-strike?

The entire answer and ask that the question be asked again and the answer be make it clear that

whether the witness is testifying on his own personal perception, his own personal knowledge,

or rather it's just globally testifying which I would object to.

All right. So you're talking about the testimony related to the securing of the scene?

What court did, yes or no? What court?

What officer court did? Correct.

Mr. Gubitosi?

Well, he can ask all the questions he wants on cross the same nation. The testimony is what the

testimony is. Well, it shouldn't come in at first your own at the first instance if it's not

based on personal knowledge. I'm going to overrule the abjection, but I certainly

understand your point to speak right now. I'll look out for it and thank you very much.

Now, Josh, I have a number of pictures that I'm going to be displaying and you said earlier

that you wanted to see them first. So they've been pre-marked. Okay.

Well, no, you're going to display in there. Yeah, that's fine.

Yeah. Just, but let's just make a record of what's been pre-marked if you could Mr. Ron.

I'm going to... Yes, the parties agree to pre-mark. Exhibits 1 through 72, which are all photographs,

and then exhibit 73, which is a thumb drive in an envelope.

I'm trying to... I didn't hear you, 73, but it's what? A thumb drive?

Yeah. An envelope? In an envelope? Yeah.

Okay. The next number to exhibit would be 74. Okay.

And, Council, I want to commend you, folks, for getting together and having those pre-marked.

Definitely speeds things up. Those are agreed to. Okay.

All right. So, no, that's fine. I know what I said, but you can ignore it for now.

All right. Thank you.

Sorry, I want to show you what's been pre-marked as exhibit number 1.

Can you say that? Yes.

Oh, what's that? That's the residence.

That's the residence that the Simmons was living in there at the time?

Yes.

And, surely, what's been marked as exhibit number 2.

Do you recognize, you know, there's some glare, what that is?

So, that would mean if you're looking at the house, I think that's the school in the background there.

So, is this the school over here that you were talking about?

Yeah. It's tough to see what I really know.

Any way to do something about exactly the way the photo is?

It's like that. So, I'll pass it up to your honor.

That looks like the fencing that runs between the school.

Now, I'll approach you.

Okay, I'm getting it.

So, do you want to take a little bit?

No, actually, I can see better at this one.

Yeah, that's so that's the, basically, to the right of the house.

That's the school that you were talking about?

Yes.

That's where your car was parked back that way?

Yes.

Was there anything in the driveway at the time that you got there that would have

prevented someone from parking in the driveway of the house?

Not that I recall.

I'll show you what's been marked as exhibit number 4.

Do you recognize that?

Yes, it's the residence.

Number 7.

That's the, the mean, the door coming in the house.

Number 8.

That's the same stairs going up.

Yeah, it's here.

There was some clear, and it's just difficult thinking.

Yeah.

So, were these photos taken that night?

I guess I'll ask you, you know, were these photos taken that night?

Not by any, but yes, I believe they were taken that night.

Okay, thank you.

Oh, I'm trying to, it's been marked as exhibit number 9.

Do you recognize that?

That's when you walk in that first door.

It's like a, uh, port in close porch.

Civil number 10.

Uh, the main, to get the door to get into the main house.

So, when you walk in, um, that from the porch,

you see some stairs on the right side of the doorway?

Yes.

Uh, what stairs are those?

Those are the stairs to get up to the second floor.

I'll show you, um, exhibit number 13.

Recognize what that is.

Yes, that, that's, uh, uh, looking...

So, as you walk in the front door that we were just looking at,

to the left?

Yes.

Do you see where, um, this fit Simmons was sitting when you asked her to, uh,

take a seat when you first got in there?

Yeah, so, uh, where that, that, um,

blanket, the red and black,

jacket blanket is on the couch.

She was just at the left, uh,

over here.

Yeah.

Let me just excuse for one moment.

Can you focus in the back row, see the photos?

Yes, you are.

I, um, I'm okay with the, with where that,

if I could just inquire on this.

Sure, please.

We can see it, thanks.

Okay, I just want to make sure, thank you.

Um, yeah, go ahead.

Um, I'm going to tell you which thing might

is exhibit number 14.

Do you recognize what that is?

Same room.

What's the different angle?

Yep.

Show you what the Marxist exhibit number 22,

do you recognize what that is?

Is that if you walk into the living room and you take a right,

there's another room there that then leads to the kitchen?

Does that make sense, though?

Uh, yes.

Yeah.

Is that that, that, that room that we were just looking in?

You're correct, Steve.

Have, sir, when number was out that you just...

I'm sorry, that's 23.

You're showing you it's been previously marked,

it's exhibit number 25.

Do you recognize what that is?

That, that is the kitchen.

Okay, so right now we've started going in the front door,

gone to the left through two rooms,

now this is the kitchen.

Yep.

Yes.

And this is where you said, um,

this exhibit was gathering bottles and, um...

Sure, just pass the refrigerator.

You can't see it in this photo,

but there, there was some, um,

drawers, like a cabinet that she'd open,

and there were some jars and things in there.

Okay.

Do you recognize what that is?

Yes, that, the same room, that's the cabinet where she retrieved some, uh,

jars and maybe four methods,

exhibit number 13.

So that, when you say the same room,

you mean the, uh, as a kitchen?

Yeah, part of the kitchen.

Just different angles.

I'm going to, I'm going to display,

into the clarified number 29.

That's as you walk into the kitchen,

and she's, uh, in the photo, to the left of the photo,

is that, um, the drawers that we were just talking about?

Next refrigerator, yes.

Yes.

Do you recognize what that is?

In the exhibit number 31.

No.

No.

Does that be the stair staff going down to the basement?

Uh, potentially, yeah.

Okay.

Sorry.

Can, um,

do you recognize, uh, this room?

Yes.

What, what room is that?

But it's, uh, I'm sorry, what, what exhibit number are you displayed?

32.

Thank you.

It's off of the kitchen.

So, and now we, um,

and we almost went around the whole house,

and we'll start.

Yeah.

Now I'm showing you what's going on.

This is, this is number 33.

You recognize what that is?

Yes.

Okay.

What is that?

That'd be photo from the bottom of the staircase,

looking into the room, um, where we,

where most, where we were at first.

Okay, so, uh, the picture take of what I've just walked through,

exhibit number 32, that last room,

and being full circle.

Yes.

Show you what's been marked with the kitchen number 35.

You recognize what that is?

Yes.

And what is that?

Uh, it's the staircase to go to the second floor.

Well, third and sixth.

You recognize what that is?

Same staircase.

Um, Mr. Gubitosa, can I see that before you, um,

because there's some, uh,

it's hard to see.

Excuse me, Mr. Gubitosa, can I see that?

Excuse me, Mr. Gubitosa, can I see that?

Exit 37, you described what we're seeing there.

Uh, that's if you were at the top of the stairs,

looking straight on.

And, uh, here's that there's a room to the right.

Which, which room would that be?

That's the bedroom of the shooting occurred.

Exit a number of 38.

That's a photo from the top of the stairs also.

Okay, that's, um, and, uh, you see a room on the left side of the photo

is at, uh, what we call the baby's room?

Yes.

Uh, Mr. Gubitosa, may I see exhibit 37 and 38

and just having to get some clear?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh,

I'm sorry, Mr. Cook, what did you mind on a

visit at 38? I had trouble picking up what that was. Could you just ask them again?

So I'm going to show you exhibit number 38. Can you describe what we're seeing here?

That's if you were at the top of the staircase, I guess you'd call it a hallway

in between the two bedrooms. Thank you.

exhibit number 40.

That's the baby's room.

We've been number 42. Same thing as baby's room. Different angle. Different angle.

Mr. Davis 42. You just show it. Thank you. 45. Can you describe what that is?

That's the baby's room also.

exhibit number 46. Recognize what that is. Is that the baby's room looking out the

door towards the landing? Yes.

Give it number 49. Do you recognize what that is? That's a picture from the hallway

into the room where the shooting occurred. Into into the bedroom?

Correct. Now you see a chair there inside the room. Do you remember was that

chair placed in that position when you first saw it or was that moved at all by

fire personality when you were in the room?

No, I don't recall.

It's silly question but I'm having trouble seeing the glit. Is that police tape?

Yes. Okay.

But I'm just having trouble seeing it too. Maybe if we can just angle that

the chair a little bit. It's hard to see. Sure, now you folks should see everything.

That's fun. Thank you.

Can you still see this? Okay. exhibit number 50.

Default all the bedroom from the hallway.

Give me number 51.

See, it's a photo of the bedroom from a different angle.

So it shows the left edge and you walk into the room?

Yes, it shows like the hard corner if you came in.

exhibit number 52.

See, it's the bedroom when the shooting occurred.

Zip is number 50.

40.

See. Okay, now in this photo you can see

an air conditioning. You can see the bed on the right, correct? A bass and

head on the left? Yes.

When you came into the room where was Ms. Fitzgerald?

So she just passed the bed like her head pretty much or head was by the wall with

air conditioning unit was and her feet were angled out just to the left of the bed.

Okay, so her head was furthest from the door. So here, probably a little to the left of that.

Okay, and her feet were facing this way? Yes.

So can I ask, so when you say that they were angled, the feet were angled out to the left,

a bit. You mean our left as we're looking at the photograph or her left?

No, I'm so our left as we're looking at the photograph.

So I've got to be her right if her head was towards the air conditioning.

Yeah, I asked the witness, they get that down in the purchase screen, you just do this.

Could you just describe the positioning of Ms. Fitzsimmons when you first walked into the room?

Yep, she's basically here. Like if this, if my hand was a body, it was kind of laid like

this, her head was right over here and her feet were over here and where was the gun?

The gun was fired left leg, she was laying on her back, it was somewhere right in here,

but I couldn't see the gun until I got up to her and then you moved her and then you saw the gun

or did you see it? I saw what I got up on, where she was.

Show you when Spamark just exited number 55, do you recognize what that is?

Yes, it's the bed, same bedroom and that's the area she was laying right now,

it'd be like the bottom of the screen, but the bottom of the photo.

That's the office inside of the bed.

Yes.

Now, when you went up there and you were, I knew Ms. Fitzsimmons had after, if it's

up to noon and say anything.

Well, will she be still there?

No, actually, yeah, I mean, we were both telling her to just breathe, calm down and breathe.

Okay, did he say anything after she was taken away?

Yes, we were basically in the hallway towards the baby's room when they taken Kelsey down the stairs,

and I heard him say that she'd point that we got out of it.

Objection, motion strike, I'm sustained.

What was his demeanor at that point?

Officer Nunes? Yes.

I think he was sort of in shock a bit, like everybody.

Why, man, we were all clearly taking my surprise, but what happened?

And how long after you

after the shot for a fire did you have a conversation without saying what it was

with Officer Nunes about what happened?

Maybe five minutes, just based on however long it took the medical staff to

get her packaged up to get her to hospital.

Your Honor, I would ask for a ruling on an excited utterance at this point.

An excited utterance from Officer Nunes?

Yes.

An Officer Nunes is going to testify?

Yes.

And, Council?

I would check, Your Honor.

Well, I think I need more of a foundation, but if it qualifies, I'll...

Now, you say that it was about five minutes after you heard the gunshots, right?

That you think you had a conversation with him that you said something.

Sorry?

Yes.

In the meantime, you both had been standing to ever wounds through?

Yes.

And you said he was seen to be in shock with a different identity,

you know, normally what was when you talked to him on the station.

Yeah, definitely.

And I'm Housel.

I think like everybody else, see, I think he was overwhelmed

in a little bit trying to process what just happened.

Oh, but be willered.

Sustainable.

As to what, like everyone else, I just need to know what the officer appeared to you.

What is the meaner, what is what, what was this emotional state, etc.

I wouldn't, he wasn't emotionally.

He appeared shaken a bit.

I'd redo my request, John.

Black foundation.

And this was five minutes after what, after the shooting, five minutes after,

I'm sorry, this is five minutes after the shooting.

So how long did it take for the fire department to

remove Miss Fit Simmons?

I'm guessing around five minutes, it may have been quicker.

Fire department was there that quickly.

The fire department was there very quickly, yes.

All right, I'll tell you what, this sounds like a, seems like a good time to take a break,

our morning break.

So, and I will rule on the objection when we get back.

All right, so we will stand a recess, say, for 15 minutes without work for everyone.

All right, thank you.

All right, so we left off, and the Commonwealth seeks to admit a statement made by

officer Noonan at the scene as a spontaneous utterance.

The defense has objected, does either side want to be heard more?

I would, please, so the government wants to have it both ways here.

You know, they want you to think that this guy is cool,

common collected, you know, and then they want to get some statements in in a completely

different aspect. So, you know, statements that are excited about utterances are, you know,

they can't be made after there's been time for reflection, you know,

and time for possible fabrication.

And here it's five minutes goes by, and, you know, this is not, you know, I know all probably,

all of us attorneys in this room and your honor, certainly, are used to thinking about

excited utterances, maybe in a little more of a liberal fashion, it's like a domestic violence

victim, someone who is completely upset and the upset continues. You know, they've gone on record

saying how professional and cool and calculated this guy has. So, that plus the five minutes,

plus the time for fabrication here, plus the motive for fabrication, I think makes it fatal to

the government's efforts, I think you should deny it. Anything in addition, Kong?

Yeah, the declared himself may not be excited. It is the fact of the matter that the

declared is still under the stress of an exciting event. And the courts have considered this

actor, such as Luger, being in the same location, has the precipitating event,

to call for somebody, a spontaneity and degree of excitement. You know, the couple is not

claiming that, you know, plus the certain event was in shambles after the shooting, certainly not,

but he was still under the pressure of the event. It was within minutes, it was in the same

location, the officer named President is willing to testify available for cross-examination,

no contracation issue. So, I would suggest that in the court's description, he will allow the

spontaneous utterance for whatever degree of value he sees that.

Okay, the last thing, Joseph, I may respond, it's sorry. It's just that, you know, this is the

exact time you would fabricate when your colleagues are starting to form opinions about what happened.

It's the exact incentive, it's the exact time to fabricate. Thank you.

Okay, all right, I think Attorney Moriarty was referring to the factors in Commonwealth

versus Baldwin, at least I think that's a more recent case that has them, which is at 476 Mass,

one, strike that. 476 Mass, 1041 at page 1042 or 2017 case. So, I can say that a lot of the

factors you write do gravitate towards admission than being admissible, but I am going to sustain

the objection. This will be somewhat of a double negative, but I'm, strike that. I am unable to

find by a preponderance of the evidence that the statement was not the product of reflective

so the directions to state. All right, you may continue, Mr. Goobotosi.

Thank you. Just one other question. You are on scene at the time of the shooting, correct?

Was your gun checked after the shooting before you left the scene?

Yes. At this time, your honor, I would be playing exhibit number 70.

Okay, which is what?

A video compilation of your rain looks outside of the house. Outside of the house?

Well, outside of the house, including the basement.

Okay. And this has been jointly admitted, right?

Yes. Okay. Yes, you may play it. Is there sound tours?

Yes.

Can now you folks in the background see all right?

Yes, thank you.

Oh, it's just, I think we can see what it sounds like screaming about.

That's okay.

Well, your honor, I wasn't going to ask any questions of this witness during the video itself anyway,

so I think I can end my questioning I can play it after when we have it all set.

Okay. Well, Mr. Roy, you think you can just in a couple minutes or you're not sure?

I'm not sure. Okay, all right.

All right, so yeah, why don't we maybe try to fix it at the lunch break with that work,

with that work for the common room?

All right, but I'm for going to do that, Mr. Roy,

and oh, is that,

it's okay, it's okay, it's okay, I see here, I'll make a note of the brief.

Okay, that's fine, thank you.

All right, so do you have questions?

Do you have additional questions?

No. Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that you had additional questions.

No, that's what I said, I wasn't asking any additional questions.

So I guess Mr. Brado, we started, they started

straight that, we started to watch exhibit 73 cut off,

we're having some audio visual difficulties,

which is my signal for our IT folks that may be in the building to come on up and help us,

but while I'm stalling doing that, are you okay with March 4 with your cross?

I can't, without a question, but it is my problem now, just I guess.

It is okay to work.

So you, so to be clear, you want to use this video in your cross?

Yes, all right, well in fairness, if that's the case,

then I should allow the commonwealth an opportunity to play it.

So, um, what, um, where's our IT folks?

I don't know the way up.

Okay, excellent.

Is it, my hand is gone, is it gone,

and that's the case.

Okay, that's it, that's the conclusion.

Okay, and um, all right, so we've, uh, we've ended exhibit 73, the commonwealth

has no further questions on direct at this time.

Okay, all right, so cross examination.

Thank you, huh?

Where do you do these quarterbacks?

I'm sorry?

We do quarterbacks.

What do you mean?

We have quarterbacks, thank you.

It's probably where I think it's going to be.

Okay.

Lieutenant-Taley, good afternoon,

and all right, hi.

It's all right.

I just need to get, let's see Mr. Bradal.

All right, um, all set, Mr. Bradal.

Sorry, did some just, sorry, I was hoping to just...

Oh, oh, you're going to replay it.

I'm sorry, that's what I'm going to use it.

I'm sorry, yeah.

No, no, that's okay.

All right, so I'm sorry, I worked very well.

Mr. Wayne, then I shouldn't have moved.

All right, no, so do what you need to do.

Okay, you're ready.

All right, may I inquire you on?

Yes.

Good afternoon, sir.

Good afternoon.

So we've never spoken before, correct?

And, uh, you, uh, did not write a report in this case?

Minute.

And, uh, who, where, where is it?

Who did you write it to?

What?

Where did I write it or what?

When did you write it?

Uh, afterwards.

And, uh, was it submitted in discovery?

I don't know, I wasn't involved in that.

Okay.

Now, as far as preparing for trial, um,

did you meet with the Commonwealth to do so?

Minute.

And how many times did you do that?

Once.

And when was that?

Friday.

Last Friday.

Last Friday.

Okay.

And so it's been, uh, obviously since June 30th, since this happened, correct?

Correct.

And you've been, uh, on the job with, uh, Officer Houston?

Correct.

You've been on the job with Officer Nune?

Yes.

Now, in terms of this incident, um,

isn't it true that you spoke with Justin Elaine at the, uh,

police department before going to Kelsey's house on June 30th?

Yes.

And was that in person?

Yeah, in the lobby.

And how many times did you speak with them, uh, all together?

In the lobby?

Or anywhere.

Uh, by this.

If I had spoken to him, you know, at a work, like if he was on, uh,

some type of a medical event, I mean about this incident,

about the service of the restraining order.

Justin in the lobby.

So, and then, and then when I called him on the phone to come over to the house,

I'd never spoken to him on that.

All right.

How did you get all of his phone number?

Because he gave it to, I asked him for his phone number when we were in the lobby.

Before I left that, I told him to wait in the lobby till I called him to come over.

How did he come to be at the lobby of the police station?

I don't know.

Why would I assume he drove?

Well, you interacted with him, right?

Right it.

Was he there to see you?

I don't know if it was necessarily there to see me.

He was there to bring in the restraining order

into, uh, work out the logistics of the, um,

uh, taking essentially think of the child.

Okay.

So, he brought you the restraining order?

He brought a copy of it and we had a copy of it that had come in electronically.

All right.

Did he, uh, show you a copy of his affidavit at all?

In it.

And, uh, did you bring that to Mr. Simmons?

No.

So, you had it with Mr. Elaine, but you didn't share it with Mr. Simmons

when you served the order.

I didn't share it with Mr. Simmons when I served the order now.

Now, just so we have this right, Mr. Elaine

went to probing family court, filed a lawsuit essentially

of restraining order, getting custody and making all sorts of allegations against

Mr. Simmons, right?

That was your understanding?

Yes.

And he was living in Stowe, Massachusetts with his parents at the time, correct?

I don't know where he was living.

Okay.

Did you ask?

No.

Did it matter?

Where he was living?

Well, I knew he wasn't living at the residence because if he was living at the residence,

it would have changed things as in,

Cal, Mr. Simmons would have had to vacate the residence.

There you go.

Judge would have checked on that.

So, he's not living at Phillips Brooks Road, right?

Were you somewhere else to stay?

I didn't ask him.

And there's no provisions here where in this order,

where he's trying to get her kicked out of her own house, right?

Correct.

So, he's an adversary to her.

He's gotten an order from a court that says,

I'm afraid of her.

Keep her away from me, right?

That's what it says in essence, right?

Correct.

And you summoned him to the house where she was?

Did you pick up the child?

Yes.

So, have you ever served an order where you brought the person,

who says they're afraid of the person to the person before?

If there's going to be some type of a custody exchange, yes.

Have you done that before?

We have, yes.

Not we, you.

Yes.

When?

I don't recall, but I know it's happened.

So, how long after you got to the house and you gave Kelsey the order,

did you call Justin to come to the house?

Would have been a matter of minutes.

A matter of minutes.

So, who did you go to the house with?

Officer Newton.

Sorry, not a true question, obviously.

Newton and Houston, right?

Yes.

Okay.

So, you have social workers on your staff, don't you?

We do.

No social worker.

No.

So, with respect to the situation, you knew this was a four-month-old child, right?

DCF?

No.

So, you go to the...

When you said DCF, are you...

I'll ask a more detailed question.

Sorry, you're on it.

So, you didn't summon anyone from DCF to come and look at the situation or anything like that,

too.

You didn't report to DCF about the situation?

Which situation?

The fact that you were going to a police officer's house,

taking her four-month-old baby and giving it to a guy...

Did father...

Yeah, I didn't call DCF.

All right.

Aren't you a mediator reporter?

I am.

And you didn't report it?

Well, report what?

The fact that there was a dispute over the four-year-old child and that

there was a court order to take the child away?

No, I didn't report it.

Now, restraining orders...

You're experienced with restraining orders, right?

I am.

Restraining orders have provisions for retrieving property, don't they?

What do you mean by that?

Restraining orders have a provision that says...

And the judge can check the box, the judge can write things in it, as they often...

Oh, yes.

...shroltings in, right?

Paragraph 10 says you may pick up your personal belongings in the company of police or at a time

agreed to buy the plaintiff.

That's just by the plaintiff, it says that, right?

Yes.

And so, there's a provision where the plaintiff

can allow it

by agreeing to it.

And this is a situation that's a little bit different, isn't it?

The plaintiff is leaving, right?

And the defendant is staying at the house.

Yes.

So, the judge took no action in that area, did they?

About whether or not just in a lane could go into that house.

No.

And so, you took that upon yourself to let him in there?

She was informed that we were calling him to come get the baby.

She did not object to it.

She didn't object to it.

No.

When was she informed?

When I served her the order, when she was sitting on the couch.

And you said, what?

I didn't want to let Justin come over and rummage around your basement?

No, I didn't say that.

What I told her was that Justin was granted a custody of a child by the court or whatever,

and that's what I said to her.

And while we're on that topic, she didn't say, I want to pack a bag.

You and your colleague officers told her,

pack a bag for the baby, correct?

No, we did not.

She raised it, she basically said the baby doesn't have anything.

Well, you're the one claiming this, sorry.

I did not hear that last.

She basically said the baby didn't have any other stuff.

Is how, what precipitated her going around the house, the other items?

Thank you.

So, you're the one planning this out.

It's your testimony that you weren't thinking about her needing to pack some things for the baby

to take with you or with Justin to lay in.

I don't understand the question.

You're saying that you didn't tell her to pack anything for the baby.

That wasn't part of your plan, in other words?

No, the fact is you told you, not noon in, not used in, you told Kelsey Fitzsimmons,

pack a bag for two weeks for your baby.

Didn't you?

No.

And so, it's your testimony that you had no plan, no thought process about getting things for the baby.

Is that right?

I don't know that I didn't have a plan, but what precipitated her going around the house

and grabbing items was her bringing it up to me.

So, you're saying that was a sort of a spontaneous thing that she took upon herself?

Yeah.

Okay, so, you get in there, Kelsey has the baby.

She's doing regular mom things, right?

She's coming home, she's got the baby in her hands, she's got sweat clothes on,

she's walking around the house.

Yes.

No signs of upset or trauma or trauma to the baby,

until you get there and tell her what's going on, right?

Yes.

Well, when I first told, she was calm when we first told her what was going on.

Sure.

And then you told her what was going on.

When I told her what was going on, she was still calm.

She called her mother on the phone, but she didn't, she didn't become emotional at that point.

And the baby started to cry.

Yeah.

And that point, at that point, you asked her to put the baby in a rocker, is that right?

No, she put the baby in the rocker before she sat on the couch.

At some point, Kelsey picked the baby back up because the baby was crying.

Correct.

And she was in the middle of feeding the baby, right?

When you got there, which I don't know that.

So there was a bottle, I don't know what she was doing before I got there.

There was a bottle, a bottle of formula or whatever there, yes.

And she told you that she was feeding the baby and that she needed to keep feeding the baby, right?

Yeah, she, yes, yes.

Okay.

And then she hands the baby to who?

Officer Nune, okay.

She handed the baby to Officer Nune, right?

And she gave the bottle to Officer Nune and Officer Nune fed her baby, correct?

I believe so, yes.

So her state of mind towards Officer Nune, five minutes before the shooting,

or ten minutes, or whatever it is, is that you're someone that can feed my baby,

you're someone that can take my baby, right?

Yeah, actually.

Someone argumentative overruled.

She did that, right?

She did what?

What I just said.

Did you ask the question again?

She gave Nune and her baby.

Oh, yes.

She gave him the bottle and he fed her, right?

And nobody forced her to do that.

She made a decision to do that on her own, right?

Yes.

Now, you said that Kelsey had started in 2025?

That's what I have in my notes.

It's not all right, it's before, I believe it was 24.

Okay, well, it's 23.

Okay.

Is it not?

I'm not positive of the date.

She's been, it's been a few years.

All right.

It's fair to say that you hired her, right?

I did.

You trained her for six months at the, at the, uh,

you were her DI for six months, right?

Drill instructor?

Yes.

She was the treasurer of the police academy when she was there, right?

She was.

She came on the job and she worked under you on, on many shifts, right?

Hey, during field training, and I believe briefly afterward, yes.

All right, so she's an officer from 23 that you know well.

And she's been there a while up right up until

going out on maternity leave and then coming back just about to come back,

June 30th, right?

Correct.

And as of June 30th, she was, uh,

slated to go back on the schedule for July 4th, right?

To go back on patrol, yes, yes.

So at some point in this incident, Mr. Elaine asked you if you could go in the basement and get some things, right?

Yes.

And you let him do that unsupervised, correct?

Correct.

Isn't it required that an officer accompany the person with the consent of the homeowner?

I'm not sure.

Now at some point, Kelsey's mother comes in, correct?

Correct.

Where were you and where was Kelsey when that happened?

When Kelsey's mother came in, I believe we were in the living room.

And Kelsey was nowhere near that, correct?

Kelsey was nowhere near where?

Her mother.

I don't get to understand the question.

When Kelsey's mother arrived, Kelsey was upstairs with noon in in Houston, wasn't she?

No, when Kelsey's mother arrived,

no, at that point officer Houston had the baby.

I'm sorry, officer Houston?

Officer Houston had the baby.

And officer Houston gave Kelsey's mother the baby, correct?

Correct.

And then officer Houston went upstairs.

But then I'm not positive at that moment.

So at some point you're downstairs, Houston and Newton are upstairs with Kelsey, correct?

Correct, yes.

Where was mom at that time?

The mom in the living room.

With you.

With the baby.

And where were you?

In the living room.

In the living room.

So you're with her?

Yes.

Okay.

At some point you hear two gunshots.

Yes.

And at that time, Houston is downstairs with you.

He's joined you downstairs.

When the gunshots happen, he's downstairs and he's not joined with me.

He's a rounded like the kitchen right at the top of the staircase.

So he's according to him.

Houston is downstairs and not upstairs with noon in in Kelsey, correct?

Correct.

You hear two gunshots.

Is it fair to say these gunshots weren't quick succession?

Yes.

What did you do?

I was running up the stairs when the shots were fired.

Did you see the shots?

No.

I heard two loud bangs.

I was running up the stairs.

Where was noon in if you know?

noon was right outside of the frame of the bedroom door.

In like the, if you want to call it a hallway, the upstairs hall.

Like maybe like a landing, like the top landing of the stair.

In between both bedrooms.

All right.

So noon is at the door frame, correct?

Yes.

And it's fair to say there's no door to the bedroom, right?

Correct.

When you get up the stairs and look into the room, what's the first thing you see?

Her feet.

Where were they?

Over on the other, you know, the far end of the bedroom by the bed.

Kelsey's feet.

Correct.

And she was on her back.

Yes.

She had a gunshuffle into the lower chest.

Yes.

And at some point, you went over there to render first date, right?

Yeah, it was pretty much immediately.

Okay.

And noon is covering the scene with this firearm, correct?

Correct.

Now, when you went up to Kelsey, what was the first thing you did?

Was it in terms of first date or in terms of securing the firearm?

Secure the firearm.

All right.

And where was the firearm?

The firearm was by her left leg.

All right.

Isn't it true that when you were interviewed by the CIC representatives,

you said that the weapon was under her leg.

I didn't hear that under what?

Yes.

You said it was under her leg when you were interviewed.

My left leg?

Well, under is different than by.

When I was able to see the firearm when I got up to or I guess I'd see it.

There's no question before you, sir.

I'll ask you a question.

So, today, you're saying that it was by her leg, correct?

Yes.

And we agree that when you were interviewed by the CIC months and months ago,

you said that the firearm was under her leg, correct?

I'd have to look at the exact statement, but.

Sure. May I approach her?

Yes.

Mr. Brenner, you get a approach.

Can you just make a record of what it is that you're showing?

Sure, good.

For the record, I'm properly witness case 21 of the CIC report.

That was commissioned by the Northland repeat.

Okay.

You want to look at it?

Yes, please.

Thank you.

All right.

It's an identity.

Any favorite look?

You can look anywhere you want in case you want to, but your attention to

right here, you can look up and down.

Yep.

Take a look at the ears of softening your pocket.

Hold on.

You got it?

Yep.

I'm going to read something and I'm going to ask you if I read it correctly.

So, she's laying on her back, head towards the window.

Feet closest to us, and the firearm was underneath her left leg.

Did I read that correctly?

You did.

And that was your test.

Yes.

Why did you roll her over to see if there was an exit wound?

And did you tend to that?

Yes.

And at some point, Kelsey said, I'm sorry I want to die.

Correct?

Correct.

And when was that?

During that time.

Was Newton anywhere near her?

Yeah.

What was he doing?

I don't know.

I mean, he was within, he was right by me, but I was

wrapping it, gawls around her, trying to, at that point, he was there.

He might have been grabbing stuff more additional things out of the medical bag.

I don't know.

At that point, Kelsey looked at him and said, why didn't she?

Not that I recall.

Didn't Newton say anything to her?

I think, yeah.

And so did I.

He basically said, like, calm down and keep breathing.

Is that it?

That I can recall, yes.

And what about you?

What did you say to her?

The same thing.

Now, you were asked, if you had your gun checked,

as a result of this incident, what, I don't mean to put you on the spot,

just, and you can go find it.

But what's, you know, your gun serial number?

No, I don't.

What were the circumstances of you getting your gun checked?

You mean why they did it?

No, what do you mean?

What happened just physically?

Did you give it to someone or what?

Yeah, one of the mass state troopers from Ballistics,

they'll get emptied, I believe, counted all the rounds in the firearm,

et cetera, and made done something else, I don't know.

You don't know?

No.

Do you know who it was that took it?

I don't.

You gave your gun to somebody, you don't know who you gave it to?

Correct.

What, who else had your gun checked?

I believe all three guns ended up getting checked, maybe not there, but.

I don't want you to speculate.

So, I wasn't present when anyone else had their gun checked.

I appreciate you trying to help, just.

My question is, what's your personal knowledge of who got their gun checked?

Let me ask it a better way.

At that time?

What did you see who got their gun checked?

Okay, so you don't have any personal knowledge of anyone else getting their gun checked?

At that time, no.

Okay.

Did you witness someone else giving up their gun and getting their gun checked at another time period?

No.

So, the whole state of your knowledge about guns being checked

is that your gun was given to someone, if you don't know who it was,

but they took out the bullets and the cartridges and the inventory did.

Is that it?

Well, I didn't give it.

I gave it to a mass state trooper from the police extreme.

I believe there were three of them over by the truck.

I don't know which one I handed it to.

I didn't ask him his name, but yeah, that's what happened.

Did they do the things you said in front of you about inventorying the cartridges and all that?

I saw him on mode and make the gun safe.

In empty the magazine, at that point, I walked away.

Did you sign a receipt or anything or a chain of custody or anything at all?

No, because I got the firearm back once they did whatever they did.

And when did you get the firearm back?

But then, at some point, after that, that same evening.

That same evening.

Correct.

Okay.

Sorry if I asked you this.

You don't have any personal knowledge of the circumstances of anybody else's guns being given up and checked.

I never witnessed any of the other people's guns getting checked.

I know that Tim Houston had already left and they were trying to make,

had already left the scene at that point, so they were trying to make

you know, logistically plan out someone going over to pick up the gun from him.

His firearm.

Okay.

Oh, sorry.

I knew that it got checked.

I just don't know exactly what it is.

You assume it got checked based on the circumstances.

How about that?

We can't do that.

Okay.

Now, you spoke with Justin Elaine at the lobby of the police station before you went to the scene,

right?

Yes, we talked about that.

Now, up until that conversation, did you have any information

from any further information from Justin Elaine about the circumstances of

Kelsey's state of mind that day or anything that was going on with Kelsey that day?

Prior to seeing him in the lobby, when you were speaking with Justin Elaine in the lobby,

had you already had any information about Kelsey's whereabouts or actions that day?

From Justin?

From anywhere.

Oh, yes.

Okay.

Were you aware that she was waiting for him at the park in town?

No, I wasn't aware that Kelsey told me that when we went to the house.

Okay.

Isn't it true that at the police station, Justin Elaine said to you,

I wouldn't be surprised if she shot the baby right in front of you,

right?

Yes.

And that added to your mindset about going to see Kelsey, didn't it?

I don't know.

I don't know.

That was part of the quantum of evidence or thoughts or presumptions that you had in your head,

right?

I think it raised my awareness.

And that was communicated to Noonan, wasn't it?

Both Noonan and Houston, yes.

Okay.

And so that statement from Justin Elaine, it's fair to say, contributes to an increased level

of vigilance towards Kelsey when you got there, right?

No, I would think it's your testimony that that's not a factor in your mind.

No, it's a fact.

It's a factor in my mind, but I think from a tactical perspective,

we were, I think everyone was actually, yes.

We do.

Everybody was probably more on point than normal.

Did you consider the Justin Elaine's motive for saying such a thing,

or credibility or lack of credibility of him saying such a thing?

Okay.

Overall, just yesterday.

So did I consider, can you, I'm sorry, can you do consider the source?

How about that?

No.

He was a plaintiff in a domestic situation seeking to get custody of his baby

and her baby through an ex-parte restraining order, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Staying.

He was adverse to Kelsey Fitzsimmons, wasn't he?

Yes.

Sustain.

I'll strike it.

Did you have a conversation with your fellow officers about the credibility of such an assertion

about your own officer that you hired, trained, had on the job?

Catch it.

All right.

So you're referring to Mr. Fitzsimmons?

Yes.

Overall.

I'm sorry, can you get, did you, did you think, did you think about what he's saying?

How did that affect your state of mind?

Towards Kelsey.

I don't know that I didn't take everything that you said is 100 percent factual.

However, there was a quarter order of place where we had to go serve the documentation.

Regardless, I don't know that was my state of mind.

Did you consult with Justin at all relative to this restraining order before you met him in the

lobby?

No.

Well, you talked him on the phone, right?

Before I met him in the lobby, no.

Oh, you did, okay.

I talked, I talked to him on the phone when I called him to come to the house.

That's the only time I've ever spoken on the phone.

Okay.

May I have one more, please?

So, Lieutenant Taylor, after this shooting and the crime scenes established,

it's fair to say that you had some other officers come to the scene, correct?

Yes.

And some of those officers were trained mental health officers, correct?

Everybody's a trained mental health officer in some capacity.

Well, there's officer C-weight.

Yes.

And he has some special training with mental health, but he's used, correct?

And C-weight, SCW-A-D-E, and he came to the scene after the fact, right?

Yes, he didn't, he didn't come for Kelsey, he came for noonin, right?

Yes.

Nothing further.

It's, uh, redirected.

It means provide a, when you're serving a restraining order, you serve the order.

It's self, correct?

Yes.

You don't serve an affidavit.

Never.

It's just the court order is being given to, uh, be defended in that order.

So, there on notice as to what the judges, um, get started, correct?

That's correct.

Now, you talked about your gun being checked.

Um, how many rounds do you typically carry on your gun?

Uh, uh, 17 in the, uh, magazine and one of the jammer.

So, 18 total rounds.

Right.

18 total rounds.

Great. Any, uh, re-cross?

Just a one or two questions, Your Honor.

So, counsel asked you, you don't serve the restraining order.

I'm sorry, affidavit.

You don't serve the affidavit, right?

Correct.

I never.

So, is there some rule that says you can't?

Not that I'm aware of.

So, you've had the affidavit in this particular circumstance, right?

Yes.

And you didn't give it to him.

That's correct.

And you could have.

I don't know.

My, my understanding we've never, I think as a general rule or practice

within our PD, I'm not familiar with anyone ever serving a restraining order,

including the affidavit.

Well, when someone walks into the police station with the order in the affidavit

and shows it to you and uses it,

it's not a big deal to make a copy and hand it to the defendant, isn't it?

Well, the document I served was a document that I printed

that was sent to me directly from the court, not what he gave me.

I just made a copy of that and remain in the OIC office.

It's fair to say that in the circumstance where you don't give an affidavit,

it's when you've gotten something from the court via the system, the OIC, you know,

and they don't give you the affidavit.

So, you just serve what you get, right?

Right, which is what I serve to.

Right, and this situation is different because you've had the affidavit

in hand right there and you could have brought it, couldn't you?

And you know of no rule that says you should.

Not that I'm aware of.

All set?

We do not get involved.

No, hold on, hold on, are we going out to reread direct?

I'd like to.

All right, how about questions?

You're not getting involved in the manner that the court decided,

like appropriate manner, right?

Direct.

We're simply going and serving the restraining order for

what the judge found, right?

That's correct.

No, thank you.

Do you have any reread cross?

Not sure?

All right, let me just see if I have a question or two.

I do not.

Okay, you may step down.

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