Killer Mom Trial: Inquiry Expected Into One Holdout Juror Before Day 7 Of Deliberations

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. This message is sponsored by Regeneron and Santa Fe. Janikramer does not have direct experience with the product advertised. As the mother of a child who has eczema, I know how hard it is to watch your child struggle. It's frustrating trying everything from home remedies to topical prescription creams. But when you're a mom, you never stop trying. If you feel like your child's moderate to severe eczema is an under control with topical prescription therapies, it could be time to ask their doctor about DuPixant DuPillumab. DuPixant works inside the body helping to block a key source of inflammation that can cause eczema flare-ups on the outside. DuPixant helps your child stay ahead of their eczema symptoms with clear skin and less itch, and it's not a steroid or immunosuppressant. DuPixant can be used for children as young as six months. Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, weezing or trouble breathing.

1:00Tell your doctor right away of new or worsening eye problems like eye pain or vision changes, skin symptoms, joint aches, and pain, or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor. Visit DuPixant.com to learn more. We manage work, kids, appointments, bills, basically we keep everything moving. So if someone steals our identity, the last thing we need is another full-time job, filling out forms and chasing down accounts. I mean, it can take months to restore ID theft on your own. So what can you do? You get life lock. Life lock's restoration specialists will do the hard work for you, because life lock truly protects your time, your name, and your identity. Get life lock at lifelock.com and use promo code Amy for up to 30% off your first year. That's life lock.com code Amy. This message is brought to you by Ralph's. If you're into entertainment podcasts, you know it's all about the details that pull you in

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3:04the versatility of a RAV4, the efficiency of a Corolla, or all electric driving in the BZ. There's a Toyota that's just right for you. And with great deals across the lineup, now's the time to find yours. But hurry, these deals won't last long. Toyota's easy choice sales event and soon. We make it easy. Toyota, let's go places. Hey there folks, it is Friday, September 4th, and we are expecting potentially more fireworks right from the start. Of day seven of deliberations in the Lindsay, Clancy, triple murder trial with that. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. They're coming back to court at nine, but we don't expect them to go right back into the deliberation room and start up again. Got some business to tend to. Yes, this is all according to Lindsay, Clancy's defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, who when he left the courtroom yesterday, announced to reporters that at nine a.m.,

4:06there will be an inquiry into the juror. He said that this juror has been identified as the juror, the four person was referring to, when they passed that note saying that someone was refusing to follow the judges' instructions on reasonable doubt. Yes, so when we left, though, Robes, the last we saw an open court yesterday was the judge specifically stating that he was denying Reddington's motion to have this juror removed. We thought that was it and that's how the day wrapped up and day seven deliberation is going to start. Robes, we've only gotten this from Reddington. The court hasn't officially said this yet. I don't think he just BS. So what is exactly going to happen? And that is a huge question because yes, when the judge dismissed the jury yesterday around four p.m., he said, we'll see you back here at nine a.m. to begin deliberation. No, no, it seemed like everything was all systems go. And look, Reddington even acknowledged when he made this announcement to reporters

5:11that he hoped the inquiry would take place in open court and not in a sidebar, because he wants the process to be seen by the public. He wants it to be transparent, but it's unclear if it's going to be an open court or an aside bar. And frankly, whether or not it's going to happen at all because we just haven't gotten an official word from the court. Why an inquiry, if the judge has already said, I'm not going to dismiss this juror. What are we? Do we need to look into? What do we need to? And then to call this person out in open court, possibly, robs. Yes, we won't get a chance to see this person, but everybody in that courtroom will. What's that going to feel like? What's that pressure going to be? This does feel like it's developing into a situation where everybody is looking at this one juror and telling you need to get on board and vote this way. Or there are others are saying you need to hold firm. Robs, this is getting messier. It is. So it will be fascinating to see what happens at nine a.m. because this jury has been deliberating for about 36 and a half hours over six days.

6:15That is a long time. And we don't know if this dynamic has just developed this 11 to one dynamic. Or if it's been like this the entire time, it will be fascinating. Usually at least one or two a couple of jurors end up talking afterwards, especially in a case like this. There'll be some persuasive journalists who will get at least one or a few of these jurors to talk. And sometimes they're chomping at the bit. Yes. Sometimes they can't wait to come out and talk and get deals sometimes. That stuff does happen. Not saying that's going to happen. But robs, book deals, etc. But if they get the scrutiny that they know they're getting right now, maybe they want to come out and clear things up. Yeah, I think they might not know, but I think they have a pretty good idea of just how big of a deal this is. They've seen even we've been surprised at how much media has just been a costing Kevin Reddington when he walks out of the courtroom. And it's been growing and growing each day. So those are the issues of podium. Yeah, he should use a podium. It's actually getting dangerous. Yes, it is. When you saw a journalist potentially getting injured or feeling faint in the scuffle scrum,

7:19whatever you want to call it. But those jurors, as we now know, after that lovely woman, Don Light, tried to take video of them, they exit from a different area, a different parking lot. But I'm sure they're aware when they pull in about what kind of media attention this case is drawing. And their families are telling them when they go home. Absolutely. That's just the way it is. And nobody's saying that's wrong or could influence how they deliberate, but it could. But you know what? Also, think about this. We're sitting here in New York glued to the TV, fascinated. And imagine, though, if that was your town, your community, Plymouth, Massachusetts. Now, that has to be all anybody is talking about. And I also just have to think if they don't reach a conclusion today, there are plenty of different outcomes with this jurors' fate hanging in the balance, whether or not they have to bring in another juror's start to the operations over again. They can continue with the same juror. Will this juror be more willing to listen to the majority?

8:23All of those things are up in the air. But if for some reason there isn't some sort of conclusion at the end of the day today, Labor Day weekend, you're going off with family and friends, you're at barbecues, you're at parties. Everybody's going to tell you that. You're a juror on the Lindsey Clancy triple murder trial. And they know it. Everybody knows that situation going to be like, you can't tell me, you'd have to cancel your plans because there'd be no other conversation except for that one. Oh my God. Because everybody would be telling you what to do, how to vote, what to do. That's tough. And they can't say a word. And I bet they do take that seriously, because this would blow up the whole process at this point. After committing that much time, that much emotion, that much energy, I would have to think these folks are invested in the outcome. And yeah, they don't want to do anything to screw it up at this point after all that time. So, yes, today, yes, we ended up with fireworks at the end of the day. A lot of those fireworks were relayed to us by reporters in the room once they had.

9:24Again, yesterday, how the day wrapped up was them getting a note from the jury that said, they didn't say we're deadlocked. They said we got one person in here who refuses to follow the judge's instruction. So this turned into an hour-long situation in the courtroom where he brought in every single juror, asked them a question and sent them back. Essentially, asked them, can you follow my instructions, ask them under oath? They swear, yes, that should be the end of it. Kevin Rennington wasn't trying to hear that. No, and he was emphatic. He wanted that juror removed. He felt very passionate about the fact that if the four person sent a note saying this juror would not follow the judge's instructions, that's a clear violation. And that is the reason why there are alternates. And I think we, there were, there are six alternates. I didn't realize there were that many. So there have been six people who have sat through all of that evidence. And while they were listening to it, they had no idea they weren't actually going to be deliberating, but they have now been in another room sitting there for all these days.

10:27And just waiting to see if they too might be included in the deliberation process. So they have options. It's just whether or not the judge will decide to take one. Robes, what do you do here? What does this judge do? Robes, this seems wrong. It feels wrong that 11 people can almost, they're almost telling the one that you're doing something wrong by not voting with us. That's not how it's supposed to work. I'm just saying it feels that way. So they report it. They report that this person isn't following instructions. What does that mean? Refuses to listen. Refuses to do what we think this person should be doing. Refuses, what does that mean? If this person has this vote after listening to this trial, that vote should count. That's supposed to be the end of it. All this ropes feels like pressure. They've been called out. Isn't that the whole point, though? It's so fascinating our concept of what justice is and how juries work.

11:28And really, it is the art of negotiating. I mean, you almost never have a unanimous vote from the onset. So there is a form of persuasion that goes on in these juror rooms. This is one, Robs, that we are getting a little more insight into while it's happening. I'm sure what you're talking. Yeah, of course. But I think we would all kind of agree that most trials we watch, we think generally, juries get it right more than they get it wrong. That's how we feel. They usually get it right more than they get it wrong. Not all the time in some high profile ones. But Robs, it feels like this person is being talked about. Like they're doing something wrong because you're not letting us get the outcome we want. Yeah, but we don't know maybe this person said something very outrageous and outlandish. I'm saying what it feels like. I'm saying from what we know right now, there is pressure being put on one person because they won't go along with the majority. We don't know why that is. This person, why genuinely, Robs, isn't it possible?

12:29Is genuinely has their conviction about this case? That's okay. It's supposed to be. But now Kevin Reddington is going after this person like they're doing something wrong. Get him off this person off so we can get somebody on the vote the way with the other 11. That feels wrong, baby. That's what it feels like, but that's not what they're saying. They're not saying it's because he won't vote with us. It's because they're saying this person is refusing to follow the instructions. Stay it out loud again. Yeah, no, I just don't know what that person said. No, but I'm saying, babe, what you're saying, you can say that all day long, but the point is they're not voting with us. We're not mad at this person because they're over there and just saying, I don't want to follow instructions. No, you're saying it's 11 to one and the one is the problem with us. That's what I'm talking about, Robs. Yeah. What 11 people in there want to get the hell out for the weekend? They can decide, man, you ain't doing what we want you to do. Man, you ain't, we don't think you're following the instruction. It feels like they're ganging up on a one. I don't know it.

13:29Maybe they're in their calls and hell. I'll leave room for that. But we also have to leave room for Robs. Just frustration and pressure now. And to the point we're talking about, get this person off so we can get somebody on that maybe it feels like we want somebody here who will agree with us so we can go home. Yeah, we just don't know what goes on that room. That part sucks. It feels that way. I hate that because it was my life on the line and I had one person in their willing to not send me to prison. You want to kick them off because you all want to go home? No, I want that juror. That's what I'm saying. It feels like we're building up to that now. And it doesn't feel right. I don't know. This is the process we're watching our legal system at work. I don't want to see the sausage. Don't want to say, has me, man, just give me the verdict. But don't give me all of this mess. But you're right. My fate is a negotiation if I'm on trial. That is the whole concept behind a jury of 12.

14:31And yes, it is fascinating to see how it all works. And I am interested in seeing how the sausage is made. I cannot wait to hear from these jurors when they come out. I can't wait to hear what was actually going on for all of these six days. And now yes, a seventh day. I can't wait. Just give me the sausage, man. I don't want to see the process. I don't want to see it. Oh, but what'd you say? I keep, I kept asking you seven times this morning. What's the official 3622? I believe is what it is. So we're about 36 and a half hours of negotiation. Now, Rose, we first started this very early on after a couple days. We started giving comparisons to this trial with this long, this trial with this long. We thought it would never get as close to some of the longer deliberation times. Stay here, folks. We will tell you just how close this case is now coming to be one of the longest deliberations we've seen in some of the highest profile cases. This message is sponsored by Regeneron and Santa Fe.

15:33Janokramer does not have direct experience with the product advertised. As the mother of a child who has eczema, I know how hard it is to watch your child struggle. It's frustrating trying everything from home remedies to topical prescription creams. But when you're a mom, you never stop trying. If you feel like your child's moderate to severe eczema is an under control with topical prescription therapies, it could be time to ask their doctor about duPixant duPilliumab. DuPixant works inside the body helping to block a key source of inflammation that can cause eczema flare-ups on the outside. DuPixant helps your child stay ahead of their eczema symptoms with clear skin and less itch, and it's not a steroid or immunosuppressant. DuPixant can be used for children as young as six months. Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling. Weasen or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of new or worsening eye problems like eye pain or vision changes, skin symptoms, joint aches, and pain,

16:34or a parasitic infection. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor. Visit duPixant.com to learn more. We manage work, kids, appointments, bills, basically we keep everything moving. So if someone steals our identity, the last thing we need is another full-time job filling out forms and chasing down accounts. I mean, it can take months to restore id theft on your own. So what can you do? You get life lock. Life lock's restoration specialists will do the hard work for you because life lock truly protects your time, your name, and your identity. Get life lock at lifelock.com and use promo code Amy for up to 30% off your first year. That's lifelock.com code Amy. This message is brought to you by Ralph's. If you love food, creativity, or making your space your own, you know the best moments often start in the kitchen, where it all comes together. So when you're thinking about dinner earlier in the day,

17:36Ralph's makes it easy to plan something you look forward to helping those moments at home come together later on. Order online and pick up groceries at your local Ralph's. Ralph's serving so cal for over 150 years. This is Tamara Judge and Teddy Melon Camp from Two Teas in a Pod. There's a moment just before your guest arrive when your home stops being a series of rooms and becomes an atmosphere. The light settles, the air shifts, cedar, fig, and warm and considered moving through each space. Your favorite scent. That's what pure does. It turns fragrance into environment, environment into intention, a collection of beautiful, clean fragrances. All controlled from your phone. Choose your sense of place at pure.com.

18:52From the American Medical Association and I Heart Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to health influencers, real people, and most importantly, doctors, to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. Yes, we will round probably at least 37, 38 hours of deliberations here for this jury. If you consider the fact that, well, they go into deliberations sometime after this alleged inquiry happens. We have no idea how long it's going to take.

19:53We have no idea if the inquiry is happening, how long the inquiry will take, if it happens in public court, or if it happens, or I say open court, or if it happens in a sidebar, and then we don't know at what point the jury will then be allowed to deliberate with said juror or a new juror. Unclear. And again, is there a requirement, babe, once you've thrown a new juror in there, can the new one come in and say, hey, how y'all vote? You know what? I'm with that. Let's get out of here. Can you do that? Are you required? There's no minimum amount of time. Oh no, they can spend 30 minutes and do one vote. Who knows? I mean, I imagine those jurors, those alternate jurors already know what their vote is. They've sat through all the evidence. So they already know. So they would probably initially just say, hey, what's your vote? And then it could be, look, that they all agree. And we could get out of here right away. There's just so many different possible scenarios. No way of knowing. That's crazy. But man, it's Friday and it's Labor Day weekend. And so, yes,

20:55there is going to be some just inherent pressure for that reason alone. Wasn't diddy up against the 4th July, right? They got out of there and time. Yes, they did. Yes, they did. Was that the day before the weekend? I believe it was. Damn. Okay. So here we go. So maybe we'll see that I didn't think Grobes the one we kept comparing to Andrew Eates. This was the comparable trial. So many people, oh, how long did that one go? Yeah, it went 12 hours over three days. Yeah, that seems a lot more reasonable. Long, long pass that now. The one that I think I didn't realize that Bill Cosby's trial took that long. Six days, but 52 hours. So they were willing to put in longer days in this jury. I was surprised honestly yesterday after that note and after all of that drama to send them back to the deliberations to deliberations. And they only stayed in there for like 20, 30 minutes. Like I would have then it must have meant that that dude didn't or I say dude, we don't know if it's a woman or a man. That's ridiculous. More likely statistically, it's a woman. But I don't

21:57know why I think it's a man. That's so funny. Oh my goodness. Why? I don't know. It seems like something a man would do. What? Stick to his opinion? That's like something a woman would do. That's so funny. I don't know why. Not be pressured by anybody. I don't know. Oh, see, I just think a woman would cave more like, okay, I'll just go with the group. Yeah, I don't know with other women for a one woman to stand out against the other women and the men. That seems like more like a man thing to me. Okay, stay with me for a while. You've young fascinated. So it's possible. There are nine women and two men going against one man. Yes. Or there are eight women and three men going against one woman. That seems. Is that the scenario? Yeah, and I could be so wrong. I fully, I don't know why my gut tells me it's a man who's the holdout. That's amazing. You're gut tells you it's a woman. I don't know. Overwhelmingly though, there is going to be a collection. A

23:00majority of women are making their case against this one person. So it's eight or nine women. Yeah, exactly. That's a lot to go. We tend to like, I don't know. Like yes, there can be infighting initially, but I feel like we tend to coalesce. I don't know. I could be wrong. Let me ask you this last thing. I did not just plan to discuss this with you. What? Who is more likely to cave to the pressure of eight or nine women? A man or a woman? Another woman is more likely to get. That's what I think. That's why I think it's a man in there. That's why I think it's a man. But I like, look, I could be so wrong. It's just, I don't know. Do you have a feeling? Now that you're talking about this sounds like some man shit. Errogant, angle, and listen. You can't tell me nothing. Exactly. Or somebody's sitting there, ways an older person perhaps. That was so that was my other thing. It was either I think it's a man or it's somebody who is older. Do we have a racial breakdown? I saw it somewhere. I saw someone say that they're mostly white. That's all I got. Mostly

24:03white. Look, this is the Massachusetts Boston area. It's predominantly white Italian Catholic. That is the majority of the makeup of that area, and democratically speaking. But I do think it's either someone who is older or it's a man. That's going to be end up being like a young black woman. What the hell? Yeah, or it's somebody who has a very different experience or. That's so interesting. We could have done a. Like lens that they're looking through. We could have done a whole episode of that. That is fascinating to think. Who is it? Which one is it more likely a man? What kind of a person? Yeah, it feels so strongly and holds firm. Like I'm telling you, I feel like that's why you might feel so protective of this person because if there were to be a holdout, you would be that person and you would hang a jury if you disagreed. You could not be convinced. If I felt that way, if I was Billy, yeah, yeah, I'm just saying if you felt very strongly in your beliefs, you're not somebody who would go over to the other side, I absolutely would. I think I could be convinced. I'm like, okay, you've heard it from me a million times. I would be sitting in

25:07the corner of the room. I could do this all day. Exactly. And I think that's why you're so, you feel it's funny how fiercely, passionately you are protecting this person's right to be different. And yes, because that's the system. It's the system. And the system also allows for a parent pressure to be applied. But that's what I'm saying. That okay, all of that. We're in 100% on par with. I'm saying a narrative is now developing that suggests they are wrong in what they believe. That we need somebody on there who is in line with the rest. We need somebody on there. But it's almost like politics. We all have to be in line in this room. If not, kick you out and talk about you. That's the part. There's a narrative that's developing that suggests this person is something beyond just having an opinion. Yeah. Oh yeah. What Charles Manson 42 hours, nine days. Ronnie Keane cops. That was seven days, 40 plus hours of deliberations. The Karen Reed trial,

26:12again, we've been talking about this one, roped. That was 22 hours over five days. I didn't think there was a chance this jury was going to get close to the Michael Jackson jury. It's surpassed 32 hours, seven days. Yeah. So we shall see what the final count is. And we can only hope that maybe today is the day. There is some sort of outcome. Otherwise, we got a wait till Tuesday. And those poor jurors got to cancel all their barbecue plans. You have me fascinated now by whether it's a man or a whole lot. I didn't think about it before we started. Now this is all the dumb of my folks. We are keeping an eye. Keeping an eye on our feet. We will be watching at nine o'clock. We'll update you when that news comes. But we appreciate you always sticking with us. I'm T.J. That's roped. We will talk to you very soon. We manage work, kids, appointments, bills, basically we keep everything moving. So if someone steals our identity, the last thing we need is another full-time job, filling out forms and chasing down

27:17accounts. I mean, it can take months to restore ID theft on your own. So what can you do? You get life lock. Life locks, restoration specialists will do the hard work for you because life lock truly protects your time, your name and your identity. Get life lock at lifelock.com and use promo code Amy for up to 30% off your first year. That's life lock.com code Amy. Hey, T.J. I have something that might get your attention. Well, just saying that obviously you got my attention. All right, Hero Bread has a new collab, a twist of anti-ans hero bread pretzel bites with 16 grams of protein a serving. Stop anti-ans pretzel bites 16 grams of protein. Okay, yes, you have my attention now. And that's not all heroes. Breakfast bagels have up to 19 grams of protein and they also make sliced bread, tortillas, buns and noodles. So let me get to his right hero has found a way to rethink a lot of the carbs people were already in love with. That's right. Exactly protein fiber

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