Luke Fox and the state of the Sabres and Maple Leafs

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Joining us right now on the Western Hotline

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Luke Fox Luke Fox jukebox on the Twitter slash X machine.

Luke, it's been a while.

I think probably earlier this season was the first time

this year we talked.

Nice to chat with you again.

Are you coming to town for tomorrow's action?

I am and I'm excited.

First time in a while that it's going to be a different

feel in the old key bank Center.

So you know,

last few times I've been there for leaf sabers,

the Toronto fans have crossed the border and kind of

taken over the building.

But with the leaves kind of fizzling out here after the Olympic

break, taking themselves well out of the playoffs and the

sabers surging, you got a clash between the hot one of the

hottest teams in hockey and one of the coldest.

And it's going to be interesting to see this atmosphere

because I hear it's loud now and Lord knows the cities

been waiting for it.

It has been a long time coming.

I think almost the entirety.

I don't know how long we go back.

You had you joining our shows, Luke,

but I don't think the sabers have ever been good when we've

been talking.

Uh, yeah, I'm old enough, but you might not be.

So that way, you know, I'm curious to see what what it looks

like to because tomorrow, the crowd because the sabers have

not had this year a very big season ticket base at all.

So my guess is that Toronto fans could have bought those

tickets at the window when single games went on sale and

even avoid the secondary market.

And the question is whether they're dumping them back to

sabers fans now, like usually sabers fans are dumping them

on leaf fans who want to pay a premium to see their team.

I'm sort of bracing for it to still be kind of overwhelming

how many Toronto fans are in the building myself.

Yeah, I don't know, you know, being in this city Toronto

at the, the passion has dwindled, right?

Like even the home games when they lose a lot of the fans

turned to booing.

So I just don't know if fans are going to want to make the

effort to cross the border, you know, spend U.S.

prices and invade Buffalo to watch this version of the

lease.

I mean, certainly if when they're playing well and they're

bound for the playoffs, I get it.

But there's a bit of fan apathy seeking seeking in Toronto.

And then you'd like to take the sabers fans want to get

their hands on these tickets, right?

Like this is suddenly the funnest team to watch in the sport

taking over first place in Atlantic.

You know, many people are calling that that lightning

sabers game the game of the year, like there's momentum

there.

So hopefully, you know, the sabers fans that have been

saving their money because they haven't the going of game

right in drones for for years.

It's now it's time to pay up and support the team.

They deserve it.

I hope you're right.

I really do hope you're right.

But I'm I'll believe it when I see it.

We have so much experience, Luke, my partner Mike and I

who's off today, sitting in that atrium in years where the

Leafs were bad and the ticket lady Jennifer of goods.

Well, many thanks.

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The gates open and it's like the people with the capes and

tin foil cups.

It's not the fans that go to the games in Toronto.

It's, you know, St. Catharines and people that can't get up

to Toronto.

So I wonder, like they have supported that team when they've

been bad before in our building.

So I'm sort of eager.

I'm not positive of anything, but I'm really curious to see

what it looks like.

I'm the Leafs currently here, Luke.

How much is another real interesting piece of tomorrow?

You remember last year when Taj Thompson got leveled

in February against the Devils and the Sabers didn't do

anything about it?

It was a firestorm here, right?

And you know how that is.

And the next game, they called up Dennis Gilbert from the

miners and he's got to fight some guy on the Blue Jackets.

I think it was to like, oh, because we're tough, you know,

just like so, I don't blame Gilbert, but it's just such a

super lame thing to let your teammate lie there after being

concussed or at least hit in the head and not do anything.

And then the next game, some guy that wasn't even on the

team at the time is going to show everyone that no,

we're together.

It's just such nonsense.

I would imagine the Leafs are getting a ton of that after

what happened with Austin Matthews last night.

100% so, you know, it was really curious also who was on the ice.

It was some of the longest serving Leafs.

You know, you got Morgan Riley out there.

You got William Nylander who's been riding all the ups and

downs with Austin Matthews for 10 years now.

And he sees the whole thing play out.

And all he does is throw his arm up like he's a lineman

calling for a penalty.

None of them go over and talk to radical gooties, you know,

big brand of Carlos there, you know, a really nice guy.

But he doesn't he doesn't get in gooties in space.

And then it's hard to blame rookie Eastern talent.

But I am concerned about the type of culture that this kid

who's a really talented kid tries hard that he's growing up

and learning from because on a good team, a team that's

together, they jump on gooties like a pack of dogs, right?

That's your captain.

That's your best player.

He took out his knee with a really greasy dirty hit.

You know, Matthews isn't a guy that invites a lot of contact.

But when he does get hit, he seldom stays down.

And there he is on the ground riding in pain,

needed help off the ice.

That doesn't just happen.

He's not a faker.

So for them, for the Leafs on the ice to give gooties a pass

was frankly embarrassing.

It was also a little bit telling of where they're at as a team

and how far they kind of checked out of this season.

When they're going that tough, they kind of slunk away.

And Craig Rume goes in in a mission.

I mean, I would love to see footage of that intermission

speech.

She must have tore the pain off the walls with his voice

because they came out and yeah, they scored on the major twice.

They came back and rallied to win the game.

Eastern Cowan, you know, ended up dropping the gloves.

They mixed it up, but it took a talking to from their coach

to wake them up.

And good teams, that's just in them, right?

It's instinctual.

It's in their DNA and they don't have that.

Now, I do think, you know, they're getting a lot of low back

today from fans and media who look back on the situation.

So I'm sure they're going to be a little more fired up in Buffalo

than they have been for most of these games after the Olympics.

Yeah, that's that's kind of what I'm what I'm expecting is some

kind of a reaction in that way.

And I think we all saw you referenced last Sunday against Tampa.

The Sabers were certainly willing to engage.

It's not their strong suit by any means.

But that's, you know, that's how quickly, it's not actually that quickly.

It's a year later, but the Sabers, that was one of the best things

about the Tampa game for this fan base is that that New Jersey game

when Thompson got knocked out, knocked over is such a distant memory

because now it's like all hands on deck.

And man, when a team doesn't, I think there's not a bigger sin.

You can commit to your fans.

I don't know about in the locker room.

I'd imagine it's pretty bad in there too.

But with the fan base, if you react the way the Leaf reacted to Matthews,

it's to me.

That's the biggest sin there is.

Like don't give me.

I didn't see the hit.

I didn't know how bad it was.

He's lying on the ice.

The lines of inner chasing Radco Goudus around.

You know what you, you can suspect that maybe you should get after Radco Goudus.

Right.

I said the same thing about Owen Power and Matthias Samuelson last year.

They were two players who were on the ice last year when Thompson got hit.

And, you know, maybe they didn't see the hit.

But you can add, you've been playing hockey your whole life.

You can add up what probably happened there.

Right.

The lines men are telling you who to go after because they're chasing the guy

to make sure you can't get to him.

So you should die trying to get to him.

I think is usually how it should go.

No, absolutely.

And Goudus has a history of being a Leaf villain.

Like they're very well about who this character is, right?

So there's that.

It's the who, but then it's also like how it affects the fan base.

And like these guys don't care about each other that much.

Why do I care about rooting for this team?

And, but I think the bigger problem is not between the players and their reactions

and the relationship to the fan base.

It's, it's to each other.

Yeah.

So you got to go into and you got to sit across from your captain or whoever it is.

Even if it was a role player, like it shouldn't really matter.

And you have to look them in the eye and say, yeah, I was on the ice for that.

But I don't know.

I didn't think it was really worth it or I wasn't quite sure.

So I just sat on my hands and, and you know, if, and if that guy doesn't do it for you,

are you going to do it for them?

And there's a, there's a, like a chain reaction there.

There's a trickle effect.

The good teams, it's like we're all in this together.

And yeah, maybe sometimes we'll go across the line.

But we'd rather you pull us back and say we were too aggressive than, than vice versa.

I mean, you're not going to take that element out of hockey.

And what's more is, it's not as if the Leafs are, need to be worried about taking penalties

because they're not a playoff rate.

This is all garbage time.

This is a time to, to, to, to stick up for one another or show a little bit about what you made up

because there aren't real consequences.

You don't have to worry about, oh, we got an extra penalty now.

And now we don't have the power play.

Who cares? You're out of it.

Do you think Luke that tomorrow will be some degree of a circus because of all this?

Like, it's trying to call tough guys up from the minors or something?

Like, what, what do you think happens here?

Uh, I don't know about a circus.

I mean, they already called up the toughest guy they had in the minors.

They're not exactly flushed with a bunch of enforcers down there.

They called up Michael Pizzetta and he hadn't played with the team all year.

So he had like, you know, a bit of a ceremonial fight right off the puck drop

in that Anaheim game last night.

Uh, just to show, hey, I, I care about being up here.

I'm going to make, making a name for myself because I finally got called up.

But there's no one else to call up really.

Uh, I, I would expect, I would hope, uh, from the Toronto side that they show some pride and show some compete.

And I mean, it's not just the, the fighting stuff.

I don't think it's going to turn into a circus.

But it's just like finish your checks, try to win a puck battle, like show a little bit of pride.

You just got a embarrassed, you know?

And honestly, you've played some pretty embarrassing hockey for about eight games now.

Like it, it's fine to lose, you know, half the league doesn't make the playoffs.

But be able to hold your head high if you're going to go out.

Yeah. Luke Fox sports net on the leaf beat with us here on WGR.

He'll be making his way down to Buffalo for tomorrow's Leafs Sabers game.

So on Matthews, there's an MRI today.

Do we have any idea when we'll hear anything?

And, and Gouda, I guess, is a phone hearing.

So five games max.

I'm going to bet he gets the five, but what do I know?

Um, he's trying to handicap what the department of player safety is going to do.

It can be a fool's error in any way.

Um, but what do you think?

But when do you think we'll find out some word on Austin Matthews?

Well, hopefully tomorrow morning, so the Leafs are going to have a full.

They took the day off today.

Um, someone was available to talk to us pesky reporters, but they're going to have a

full morning skate 1130 at key bank.

So I would expect by that and I'll have Matthews imaging done and we'll get more of a timeline.

Uh, if, if there's any thought that this is something that could require surgery,

or weeks of rehab, um, you know, I don't want to play amateur doctor, but, you know,

like, uh, stretch to torn ligaments, then just shut them down.

Um, the guy, the guy's been through a lot.

There's no point.

Uh, you want to get a look at some of the guys you have in the farm system.

Anyway, um, so that, that's, I'm, I would guess that that's what they do.

Um, but maybe, hey, maybe it just looked worse than it was and the images come back negative.

And he's good to go in a week, but I, I, I would say that if the, if it's any,

anyone borderline, they'll shut them down.

Um, but yeah, tomorrow morning, hopefully we get rid and, and I wouldn't be surprised if we hear.

Our goodness was just a phone hearing.

So we might hear word on the length of the suspension tonight.

And, and this guy has a history.

I'm a little bit surprised that they didn't do in person.

And I wonder if that's because the refs did their job.

They threw the book at him as much as they could in terms of kicking him out of the game

and giving him a major.

So sometimes players safety, they don't like to say it, but it feels like they chase it.

If the refs missed it, but the rest didn't miss it.

Right.

Well, regardless of however, Matthew's the imaging turns out.

If it's severe or mild or whatever, what is the way forward here in Toronto, Luke?

I mean, back to the, the big story here, which is that this season has just gone up

and smoke for them and it, and it really, it, it didn't start really well.

And it never really got good.

Like once they faded, they never rebounded and they're just riding along in last place here.

Um, I don't know.

You're, you're around the team.

Obviously you talked to Austin Matthews in the locker room.

I see him on their missions are on pre games.

And I don't know more code.

So I don't know if he's blinking.

Get me out of here, but every time I see him talking on a telecast,

it feels like I'm watching a hostage video.

Um, like what is the way forward here for them?

Well, the way forward might be taking some steps back.

Because these things are cyclical and I've followed them closely.

And even early in the season, it didn't feel like they're here.

And injuries played a part of that show, but I think when you step back,

I think it's more a changing of the guard.

The Buffaloes are young and hungry and coming up.

And guys signed to reasonable contracts.

The trade red ones are finally taking a step this year.

Montreal looks like it's going to be a force for a number of years,

having a young, exciting, fast core locked up.

Ottawa, if they can get goal tending, are going to be in a conversation.

A one year blip is not under the question for the Florida Panthers

because of missing Alexander Barkoff for basically the entire year.

We'll see if he makes some sort of late return here,

but that's your MVP and he didn't play all year.

So that seems a little more feasible.

The leaves feel like there's too many holes to fix.

I would say they probably need two puck moving defensemen.

They have a blue line locked up, but they're all old.

They all have injury history.

The guy that's supposed to be their number one Morgan Riley has been miscast.

The bounce back year never happened.

He's been a disappointment and he has full no move.

Hard conversations are going to be had this off season.

I don't think they've been had yet.

But is there a path forward to build around knee lander and Matthews

supplement those guys and try to get back in the conversation?

And even at that, I think it's more playoff relevant,

not Stanley Cup championship contender relevant.

And I think that would be delaying the inevitable,

which is you're going to have to make deeper cuts to the core eventually.

Re-stock the coverage and take another run at this,

because I just think their time as the Atlantic big dog has come to an end.

And other teams are it's their turn now.

I mean, I made my crack about Matthews and what the interviews look like on TV.

Is there in your mind any credible reason

to move him?

Do you think that that's on the table for the organization or not?

I don't think this summer.

But I think they're going to have to have some frank conversations with him.

I think he's enjoyed winning the gold medal,

winning three rock of a sharp trophy, the heart trophy,

having the 69 gold season.

He's enjoyed all the individual stuff.

And I do think he's ready for some team success.

And he has to believe that the Maple Leafs have a plan

that he believes in, better wingers,

a coach that sees the game that he does,

which I don't believe he sees him in the groove.

I want to play the game the same way.

And if there's a path,

I think he'll be willing to give it a shot for another year, too,

and see where it takes them.

But if not,

I do think that we might see him enter his Quinn Hughes year,

which is next year, the year before his walk year.

He's only got two more years left on his deal.

And you have to be proactive with him.

And if he doesn't feel the team is going to win,

and his prime is dwindling,

and now, as we saw last night,

the injuries are piling up.

The career doesn't start to feel as long anymore.

And you want a championship.

You want your name on that big silver thing.

I'm sure the gold medal only fueled him towards that.

And how good that felt.

I've never seen him happier.

So maybe there's a path where it's not like,

I'm going to ride this out and sulk my way out of town,

but have a frank conversation with management and say,

is, can you work to find me a different destination

that's more ready to win?

Yeah.

But I think the first choice is to give Toronto another crack.

But there's just, there's a lot of holes in this roster

that need to be filled to make that legitimate in my mind.

Do you expect new people to be in charge of filling the holes?

Like is there a GM and coach house cleaning coming?

Do you think or not?

It's, I'm a hearing different things.

I think there should be.

I think there should be for sure.

I would say that tree living might be a little safer than brewery bay.

And at the deadline, I asked tree living,

who's always backed brewery bay.

You know, what do you think of the job the coach has done?

He said, Craig the terrific coach,

but his next sentence was, but it hasn't worked.

And it hasn't.

This, you know, some people might say the Winnipeg Jats,

I would say the Toronto Maple Leafs are the most disappointing team this season.

And it's not all injuries.

It's style of play.

It's a disconnect between front office and coach, coach and players,

organization and the fan base.

I do think it refreshes in order.

I think that is an off front office.

I think it's the bench.

I think it's everything.

But I'm not, I don't know for certain that Keith Kelly,

who runs MLSD is willing to do that just yet.

Did it really go wrong with the last big move here to move Marner out?

Like did that have to, I mean, I know like year over year,

it's the same story, only a couple around one win.

So the disappointment, but I mean, I don't know.

No one can be pleased with what it has looked like this year,

with no Mitch Marner on the team, I think.

But how much of the blame for the year,

do you think Trace is back to them divorcing from Mitch?

Yeah, good chunk, but, you know, I do think you can't just circle that

and shrug your shoulders and say, hey, we didn't have Mitch.

So we can't do it.

I think he was a tremendously mismanaged asset

and they scrambled late to try and get something.

They did get Nick Waw and then later they flipped Nick Waw

to Colorado's first and fifth, you know, down the road.

So it's not exactly nothing, but it's almost nothing

because you can't let us superstar walk in his prime like that.

And they gave him a full no move clause in the final year of his deal.

So they let they gave all the control over to the player.

And that was a decision made by Kyle Davis

before tree living took over.

But they were always a little bit late on the decision making.

And I think they've been late on Morgan Riley.

And hopefully they've learned their lesson and they won't be late

when it comes to deciding where to go with Matthews here.

But yeah, that was a that was a major step.

But then you also have all this cap space.

And then who do you give Mitch his money to?

The key is Michelle Dakota Joshua.

These guys, Michael Pizzetta who got called up like a few guys

and they tried to try to do it by committee.

And the flyers they took on guys didn't really pan out either.

You mentioned Pizzetta getting called up yesterday.

Do we know are they going to call someone else up for this game tomorrow

with Matthews?

Obviously not.

I mean, however severely he's heard.

I imagine he's out for tomorrow.

Do they need to call another guy up?

I ask because there's a kid from Williamsville who played a lot of minor hockey

as a junior saber here in the area.

Matthew Barbalini who's been on the Marley since I think late last year.

He got there and he's been there all year this year.

I mean, he's not like any kind of a hot prospect or anything.

But I wonder if he's someone who might get a get a look.

Yeah, it's possible.

They don't have to though.

Okay.

So they had Steven Lawrence and Dakota Joshua as healthy scratches last night.

And they're already given looks to Pizzetta.

This guy, Bo Grue, who scored last night is played two games for them now

and his looked pretty good.

He was the leading scorer down on the farm for the Marley's.

So he's looked pretty good.

I imagine he'll be in the lineup.

They're giving Jacob Cohen another Marley.

A look here.

So they already called up three Marley's all forwards.

I guess there's a chance if they want to continue to scratch the rents and Joshua

but they don't have to.

They could easily just plug one of those veterans in.

All right.

Well, if this Barbalini kid shows up at any point here between now and the end of the year,

just tell them all his friends in Buffalo are watching and rooting for him for me.

Okay.

Yeah.

No, you know what?

I really enjoy chatting to the guys that get called up because the veterans that are

feeling defeated and understandably feel like it's a lost season.

But there's still these feel good stories from the HL when these guys get their their

chance.

They're hungry.

They're happy to get that phone call.

So it's kind of like a little little silver lining stories amongst the the general

Maple Leaf's misery that is.

Totally.

Totally feel you are Paul Hamilton understands exactly what you mean.

I believe me after all these years of walking into Sabers locker rooms with nothing like

what do I even ask you people anymore?

I don't even know what to and they don't know what to say anymore either.

All right.

Luke, thanks so much for the time.

Safe travels down here tomorrow for the game and you know, really appreciate catching up.

Yeah, I'm excited.

I hope the atmosphere is off the charts tomorrow night.

All right.

Good deal.

Luke Fox sports net on the Leafs tomorrow's opponent for the Sabers.

We'll hit up a time out here.

Sal Kapacho will shift gears like we effortlessly can and get some football in the bills made

assigning for their secondary yesterday evening.

CJ Gardner Johnson a pretty somewhat notorious player in the league.

It's a name I think a lot of casuals know.

He's got a lot of flare a lot of personality.

We'll get the lowdown on what Sal thinks about the move as we continue right after this.

Mike is away today.

I'm the bulldog and you're listening to WGR.

The ticket lady Jennifer of coach.

Well, many thanks.

Good, sir.

Here is my discover card.

They accept a discover at Renaissance fairs.

Yeah, they do here.

Discoverers accepted at the places I love to shop.

Get it with the times.

With the times.

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All their meat is born and raised on local American farms.

No antibiotics, no added hormones, no seed oils, just one ingredient.

Meat.

Visit GoodRanches.com and get $25 off your first order with Code Ranch 25.

That's Code Ranch 25 for $25 off your first order.

GoodRanches.com.

American Meat Delivered.

Some places take you away.

Some bring you together.

Marathon does both.

Marathon is Florida's family key with something for everyone.

You'll find museums and wildlife refuges.

Wide open beaches.

Miles of warm, clear water.

And the historic seven-mile bridge.

For more about Marathon, visit FLA Keys.com slash Marathon.