Melania Trump, Epstein — and the Photographer in Between

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Welcome to the Tara Palmeri show.

We've all seen that Hillary and Bill Clinton

have to sit down and testify before the House

Oversight Committee.

And it's got everyone thinking,

well, if Hillary and Bill Clinton have to sit down,

then what about Melania and Donald Trump, right?

After all, they too knew Galen and Jeffrey Epstein.

I mean, in my latest piece in Vanity Fair,

which just dropped on Friday,

I explain one degree of separation between Melania Trump

and a fashion photographer who made her career

who remained close to Jeffrey Epstein

after his 2008 conviction.

He's found in the files hundreds of times,

600 times to be precise.

His name is Antoine Vergloss.

He was a huge photographer in the 90s.

He photographed Cindy Crawford, Stephanie Seymour,

Claudia Schiffer, Tyra Banks.

He also made Melania Trump in the late 90s.

He was the one who photographed her for that Racy GQ shot,

the nude one where she's lying on,

and I think nothing but fur in Donald Trump's plane.

You know, he also photographed her

in nothing for a golf maxim.

Just she's just covered in golf balls in a bathtub.

So he did some of her most iconic shoots.

He did a dozen with her, actually.

He shot her between, it was 1999 and 2011.

There's a living shot that he did with her.

But he's very much a part of the elite ecosystem

of modeling that brought Melania into the place that she is now.

President Trump was proud of her that she was an elite model

and it was this man, Antoine Vergloss,

who basically made it happen.

Now, Antoine, the emails show

an uncomfortably close relationship between Antoine

and Epstein, for example.

Epstein hired Antoine to shoot,

to do photo shoots of his girlfriend,

Karina Shuliac, and other girls.

We don't know their ages.

He says they were not miners.

He pays them in one email.

It says that they won't need styling

because it'll be nude.

He claims that it wasn't nude.

He also sends a file that says

Antoine Vergloss, nude, black and whites.

He also sends in just like almost 65 files

of, we don't know what, they're all blanked out.

He asks him for help with his son, Julian getting an internship in finance.

Julian went on to be a day trader

and according to the emails Epstein met with him.

In return, Vergloss actually helped Epstein's girlfriend,

Karina Shuliac, get visa.

So there was certainly a symbiotic relationship

between the two of them.

Epstein reached out to him, saying that Woody Allen

was looking for a girl for his movies between 2024

and then Vergloss responded with some ideas.

What is probably one of the most chilling emails

though in their correspondence is about a drug

called scopoline, a lethal drug

that eliminates free will.

Now, there's an email from Vergloss

that is forwarded to Jeffrey Epstein

and it's a, it's quoting a daily email article

that explains scopoline and how it basically eliminates.

Like I said, free will.

It leaves you extremely suggestible, almost like a zombie.

They actually say a childlike state.

Well, that email, why is it in Jeffrey Epstein's inbox

and it was originally a Vergloss email?

Also, Jeffrey Epstein just so happened to be growing the plant

that creates that drug scopoline.

It's called a trumpet plant.

It's known for its beautiful bell shape.

It is seen in a number of gardens,

but it's just a little convenient, right?

It's seen in two emails that Jeffrey's asking

about these plants.

Now, Vergloss says he doesn't recall what this was all about.

He says that he was alarmed by this drug

and he doesn't remember how it ended up in Jeffrey Epstein's

inbox.

He claims that their contact was limited,

that they only met a number like a few times,

maybe a dozen or so contacts between the two of them

and that is the extent of it all.

It's really downplayed at all.

But I really think that it's another example of the very thin line

between the White House president, First Lady,

and Epstein and his world.

So please go check it out.

It's at vanityfair.com.

You can also go to the red letter to find it.

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And it supports independent journalism.

Take a listen to this episode of Katie Turshow on MSNow.

We discuss Bill Clinton's testimony.

We talk about what that means for President Trump.

Who's been asked about it, whether he should testify.

Seems a little scared actually.

And I share my reporting about Antoine Verigloss

and his relationship with Melania Trump.

And then his subsequent close relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.

He says that he did not know Jeffrey Epstein

when he was working with Melania.

Take a listen here and thanks again for listening to the show.

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The American public deserves

to hear and see these answers for themselves.

And ultimately, this demonstrates that nobody is above the law.

And my top concern at this moment

is the ongoing White House cover up.

It is deeply concerning that we are seeing

a very coordinated machine from the president

of the United States continuously repeating

that he has been exonerated.

He just repeated that today to members

of the Republican Party on the Oversight Committee

repeating that lie as well.

There are very credible allegations

that have been looked investigated

by the FBI, the Department of Justice

is illegally withholding.

Please do not stop asking about this.

Why is the DOJ continuing to defy

the Epstein Files Transparency Act

by refusing to release the full Epstein Files

by illegally withholding information

by deleting photos and videos of people like Howard Lutnik?

This is unacceptable.

Donald Trump must be deposed

immediately in front of this committee

as do many senior level officials from this administration.

Congressman Suha Subramaniam from Virginia.

If there was any doubt before today

that Oversight Democrats are treating this investigation

in a non-partisan way,

it will be put to rest when the transcripts come out.

We have been asking the foreign president

the hard questions to his credit.

He has answered every single question.

He has not taken the Fifth Amendment.

He has been actually quite comfortable

and he has actually given very long

deliberate answers to all these questions.

And so we appreciate the foreign president being here today.

And we would like to see the current president come before us as well

and give the same kind of transparency

that President Clinton has given us today.

And we're going to continue to demand the release of the files

and continue to demand transparency of this administration.

Two quick points.

Wesley Bell, Congressman Missouri's first district.

First and foremost,

President Clinton came here and answered tough questions.

I think the victims and survivors,

the American public deserve

those deserve a serious investigation

because thus far what we're seeing

from Republicans is a very non-serious

as one of my colleagues referred to it as a clown show.

And having led and serious investigations,

I can't disagree.

When we hear members from the other other side

coming into a deposition with conclusions,

get no evidence to support those conclusions

and then announce to the world

that these conclusions must be true.

That is unprofessional, it's unethical.

And at the end of the day, what we're trying to do

is get to the bottom of what actually happens

so that we can hold any offenders accountable.

Democrats are doing that.

The president and former First Lady have done that.

And now it's time for President Trump to do the exact same thing.

Under oath, not when you can just make statements randomly

on X or true social,

but under oath where your right hand is in the air

and there are consequences if you don't tell the truth.

And so we're going to continue to push for transparency.

We're going to continue to push for justice

because that's what the American people

and the survivors deserve.

I think I'll just make a couple of brief comments

and I'll answer one or two questions.

And then the deposition right now is on a break

and so we'll reconvene.

There'll be some additional hours

of questioning by both the Democratic side

and the Republican side as the afternoon goes on.

I want to just reiterate a couple of things

that have been made which are important.

The first is that we are thankful

that President Clinton came in

and answered tough questions

from both the minority party and the majority party.

We also think it's important to note

that and he made some of these statements

in his opening statement.

He made it clear once again

that he does not understand nor do we

why we spent so much time yesterday

grilling Secretary Clinton

when she obviously had no knowledge

of Jeffrey Epstein and had never met Jeffrey Epstein.

We also want to reiterate,

and I want to think it's important for us to know

our call yesterday because of transparency

it is so important

that we continue to release both Secretary Clinton's

deposition and President Clinton's deposition.

Both of the Clintons are committed

to these records getting out as soon as possible

and oversight Democrats agree.

The best way of going forward

is for there to be transparency

and a full public record

and we're demanding that that record not be edited

but just a full recording

of what transpired yesterday

and what will continue to transpire

to date for the course of the day.

And finally, let me just also say once again

that we have a new president in this country

where we can now demand President

and former presidents to testify

in front of the oversight committee.

So we are once again demanding

that now President Trump

was in the Epstein files almost more

than anyone else besides Galein Maxwell

answer our questions.

This is not a hoax.

He has not been exonerated

and we have serious questions for President Trump.

Well, that wants a couple questions.

President Trump just came out

and said that in the slides

are saying you asked President Clinton

if he thought President Trump should come

and testify and Chairman Cormor

said that President Clinton's response was

that was for you to decide

and President Clinton went on to say

that President Trump has never said anything to him

to make him think who's involved.

Now, obviously, we don't have the

transcript of the position

but I would love your opinion.

And what?

Yeah, I think either the best response of that

is for you to

to view the complete record of what actually he said,

which look, we're not going to disclose what was said

because that's not in the rules.

The Republicans keep breaking the rules.

But I think to what Mr. Frost said earlier,

there was, I think that the President Clinton

did bring up some additional information

about some discussions with President Trump.

I think that the way Chairman Cormor

described it, I don't think is a complete

accurate description of what actually was said.

So let's release the full transcript.

Then you can get all get a full record of what

actually was said, which brings up some

very important new questions about comments

that President Trump has actually said in the past.

Any other questions?

Comments?

Yes.

Comments?

Mr. Cormor, I know in the former President's statement,

he says there may be times where he says

he can't recall.

As that, I know you can't really give a lot of details

about what was said in the deposition,

but I wouldn't you characterize what you think

to be cooperative is he answering the majority of questions

or a lot of his responses or I can't recall.

I think everybody would agree that he's been very cooperative

and he's actually answering the questions fairly.

I mean, the best of his ability, he's not

taking a pass on pleading the fifth for any questions.

He's been very thorough.

He's been asked some questions multiple times over.

I think you'll see that in the transcript.

So he's been very cooperative and in fact is,

I don't think he's given any sense that he's been

uncomfortable to be there.

In fact, I think he's been, he's been pretty interested

in answering, I think, all the questions of both the Republicans

and the Democrats.

With that, we're going to wrap up.

Everyone's going to have a break and then we'll continue.

Thank you.

We're going to have a question after the President's day.

Angel, anything you want to say?

All right, what you were just watching just there

is the Democrats giving a bit of a gaggle to reporters

in the middle of a break in the Bill Clinton testimony

regarding Jeffrey Epstein.

I'm Katie Turr.

Thanks for joining us.

It is 207 right now.

An interesting back and forth there with Congressman Comer,

well, an indirect back and forth between Congressman

Comer and Congressman Garcia regarding something

that Bill Clinton said about Donald Trump.

Let's get into that joining us MSNOW.

Senior Capitol Hill reporter Ali Vitale and Chapacuo.

MSNOW senior legal reporter Lisa Rubin

and hosts of the Terrapal Mary podcast

and author of the Red Letter Unsubsack Terrapal Mary.

All right, so Ali, let me play what Comer said

just a few moments ago regarding some testimony

from Bill Clinton.

I want to make a statement because they'll probably

not mention this when they come out here.

A ranking member Garcia asked President Clinton, quote,

should President Trump be called

to answer questions from this committee?

And President Clinton said, that's for you to decide.

And the president went on to say that the president, Trump,

has never said anything to me to make me think he was involved.

OK, so Ali, that was Comer's characterization

of what President Clinton said.

Congressman Garcia just was speaking a moment ago

and he said that's not quite accurate.

That's exactly right.

And I think there's two things that struck me

because this was also the exchange that I think

I pulled out as the most important and like,

substantively impactful of what we just heard from lawmakers

as they gagled with us and then went into a deposition break.

To me, it says two things.

First is that Democrats keep trying to respect this idea

that they are not supposed to talk about the substance

of what's happening in these depositions,

like truly specifics about what's happening in these depositions

until the transcript and video are released.

But we've seen now is Republicans in Comer doing a pretty good job

trying to set the narrative of what is said inside.

And the reason that I think what Comer said there is important

and also gives us some insight into how he might be thinking

about the future of this investigation is that they are trying

to use Bill Clinton as a way to rebut claims

from Democrats and others who say, OK,

if you've got a former president in Bill Clinton,

why are you not asking President Trump

who has mentioned hundreds of times in the files,

potentially more than any other person in there,

or one of the top mentioned people in the files.

And Comer, by trying to use Clinton to say, well, Clinton says

he never had any reason to think that Trump was involved

with Epstein, they're basically trying to cut that line

of inquiry off at the past.

Obviously, Garcia and Democrats were not going to just let that go.

They very much want to use the fact that Clinton is here

before the committee as leverage for why Trump himself

should be called before the committee.

But to me, it tells me that Comer is aware of the door

that he may have opened by getting the Clintons,

giving the conservative red meat of these favorite villains

for Republicans, putting them back in the deposition spotlight,

that he's also now aware of the door that it opens

for people to say, OK, if you've got Clinton,

why are you not asking for Trump?

Or even more than that, if the committee wants to ask spouses

who don't have insight into their husband's actions,

for example, as Hillary Clinton didn't intend to bill,

then why are you not also asking Melania Trump,

who, by the way, is actually pictured in some of the Epstein files

and has at least one correspondence with Gilein Maxwell, right?

So it opens up this sticky line of partisan questioning,

and that's what I saw in Comer there, trying to rebuke that.

Or, frankly, or, frankly, Marlon Maples,

who has said to have found Epstein to be off and odd,

why would she, he was at her wedding as well,

and at Melania Trump's wedding to Donald Trump.

So if the spouses are now fair game, what about those two women?

I want to get to that in a moment,

because Tara, you've got some interesting reporting regarding

somebody else linked to Melania Trump and Epstein,

and I do want to drill into that.

But first, let's talk a little bit more about Bill Clinton.

He had an opening statement today that laid out,

I guess, the parameters of what he thinks he had to offer,

the committee, and he says, I'm going to paraphrase it,

I didn't see anything, I didn't know anything,

I didn't do anything wrong.

I think that's a pretty good distillation

of what both Bill and Hillary Clinton

have each said previously, Katie, and not just said it,

they swore to it in declarations

that they offered to the committee mid-month last month

in lieu of testimony, and he said, in his declaration,

I'm going to read to you, to stay plainly,

I had no personal knowledge of Mr. Jeffrey Epstein

or misguilling Maxwell's criminal activities,

including those to which Mr. Epstein pleaded guilty

in Florida in 2008, those for which he was investigated

and charged in New York in 2019,

and those for which Miss Maxwell was found guilty in 2021.

However, I do think that there were some legitimate questions

to be asked of President Clinton,

notwithstanding that statement.

And those include questions, not limited to,

but those include questions about his 2002 travel

with Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell.

They traveled together on multiple occasions

that year, including sort of an infamous trip

to Africa on Jeffrey Epstein's plane,

where many other notable people were present.

One of the things that I think we need

to better understand about that trip,

as an emergency room physician who accompanied them

on the trip to ensure that Bill Clinton

as the former president was adequately taken care of,

he said, look, everybody else on the trip,

and he said this in a statement to the FBI,

everybody else on the trip had a designated purpose

or a reason to be there.

You could explain why they were on that plane.

And yet, there were four women there,

whose presence I could not explain.

They were all in the early 20s,

appeared to be 20 to 22.

One was described to me as a ballerina,

another a former model,

but everybody else was there for philanthropic reasons

because they had policy expertise.

And of course, Epstein was there

because he contributed the plane.

That ER doctor honed in on something

that I think is legitimate to ask Bill Clinton about.

What did you think those four girls were doing on the plane?

And should you have asked more questions

or disassociated from Jeffrey Epstein as a result of that?

I'm sorry, I missed Bill come a moment ago.

He was not at Melania's wedding to Donald Trump.

My bad on that, but he was at Marlon Maple's wedding.

But back to Bill Clinton and the women on the plane.

Okay, he's got four young women on the plane.

They're not, they don't appear to be underage.

And maybe he thought this guy is a playboy fine.

But Bill Clinton was around Jeffrey,

I've seen more than that.

And Jeffrey Epstein had a certain reputation

even in 2002 and before about liking.

I mean, we saw the birthday book about liking younger girls.

Well, let's talk about the infamous New York magazine profile.

I mean, again, if you want to draw some connective tissue

about Clinton and Trump,

both of them were aware of that reputation.

How do we know?

Because in 2002, when New York magazine wrote

one of the first sort of now infamous profiles of Jeffrey Epstein,

there was that quote from Trump where he says,

it's been said that Epstein likes beautiful women

as much as I do.

And then he flags that he likes them on the younger side.

So that was part of Epstein's reputation

that was trailing him around Palm Beach

and certainly New York society.

At the time, Hillary Clinton was obviously a senator

from New York.

The Clinton said, already set up base in Chapacol.

Even if that was not yet his national reputation,

anybody who operated in the New York circles

in which the Clinton's, as a former president

and first lady were then active,

would have sort of known the scuttle but around him.

Okay.

Did Clinton, see, appear in the files post Epstein conviction?

I have not seen any showing that Bill Clinton himself

in relation to an ongoing relationship

with Jeffrey Epstein or Gling Maxwell appears in the files

after that period of time.

However, I want to flag.

We are all aware of the fact that Gling Maxwell attended

Chelsea Clinton's 2010 wedding

after Epstein's original conviction

and after he was done serving his time

as the guest of a Clinton friend named Ted Wait.

We understand from both Clintons

that she was there solely in the capacity

as Ted Wait's plus one essentially.

But again, there is no indication

that Epstein was maintaining a correspondence

with Gling Maxwell.

I'm sorry, that Epstein was maintaining

a correspondence with Bill Clinton

or that he was maintaining a correspondence

with Gling Maxwell independently after that time.

All right, let's talk about the slippery slope here

and the precedent being set.

Democrats say Tara that the Republicans

are calling it a former president.

They're calling in his spouse who says

she didn't even know Jeffrey Epstein.

Aren't you setting a precedent, they say,

to allow us to interview Donald Trump,

to allow us to interview potentially his spouses.

You've done some reporting about another person

that links Melania Trump to Jeffrey Epstein.

We've seen her in photos, obviously, we keep showing them.

We've also seen that correspondence

between her and Gling Maxwell,

which was short and innocuous, at least on the outside.

Who is this guy that you're writing about

and what length does he have?

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So this is Antoine Berglas.

He was a huge fashion photographer in the 1990s.

He photographed Cindy Crawford, Stephanie Seymour,

Claudia Schiffer, all of the biggest models.

And in fact, he propelled Melania Trump's career.

He is the reason that she became famous.

He did that famous GQ spread of her naked in Trump's plane.

He also did a few other photographs of her maximum golf

where she's again naked, just covered in golf balls.

They did about 12 sessions together.

And he is responsible for her fame.

And he was found through her modeling agent.

And this is around the same time that she was getting a visa.

Now at the same time, he maintained a relationship

with Jeffrey Epstein from 2012 to 2017.

That's after his conviction.

He was photographing Epstein's girlfriends

and their friends in some of the emails.

It suggests that they were nude.

He sent nude photos to Jeffrey Epstein.

He sent many photos to Jeffrey Epstein.

They worked together on shoots a number of times.

And then there's a really concerning email

that was forward to the Jeffrey Epstein that was sent by him

about this drug scopoline that takes away free will.

It's basically a zombie drug almost like leaves a person

basically incapacitated.

He said he doesn't remember the context of that drug.

And that he said that they never did anything together with it.

But there are a number of very concerning interactions,

especially the fact that he was still working for Jeffrey Epstein

after his conviction in 2008.

And so this is someone who made Melania Trump's career

and all doesn't suggest that Melania did anything wrong.

It does show one degree of separation

between the world, Melania, and the world that made her

this elite modeling world.

And Jeffrey Epstein, a world that he easily exploited

through visas.

I mean, actually this photographer, Julian Faircloth,

helped Epstein's girlfriend, Karina Juliette Getavisa.

That's how close they appeared to be in these emails.

So he's a reoccurring character.

He chose up almost 600 times in the Epstein files.

And he is just so happens to be the man who made Melania.

Well, I mean, he would be interesting to question.

Melania would be interesting to question about that as well.

Ali, one last question to you regarding the politics here.

I think it's just kind of sad to insert politics into this.

And it's something that Marjorie Taylor Green

was doing a good job of having some dignity with.

She was talking about everybody

to come and answer questions regardless of political parties.

I don't feel like I'm seeing much of that right now

among the lawmakers who are questioning these witnesses.

You have Bill Clinton there today.

Lots of Republicans showed up.

Lots of Democrats.

Less Wexner, the other day who was, you know,

argued with a source of much of Jeffrey Epstein's wealth.

Lots of Democrats, but only Republican staffers

showed up to interview him.

So what is the actual desire to get to the bottom of this?

Or is this just another round of partisan politics?

You know, I think these members, Katie,

have been trying to use the word that this is nonpartisan.

And certainly when I've talked to the survivors,

when they've come up repeatedly to Capitol Hill

to urge members just for transparency and accountability

and justice, some of these women have been so clear

about the fact that they've given statements over the years

or they've tried to talk to law enforcement.

And some of them don't even know what has happened to them.

They want clarity on their own situations

and on their own traumas that they are healing from, right?

And so that is, as always, at the center of this.

And I think that all of us keep coming back to that.

But what should be a nonpartisan quest

is then immediately bogged down in partisanship.

And I think I've been thinking about that often

because over the last two days,

I asked Chairman Comer about Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik, right?

And the idea that Lutnik himself has offered up details

about living next door to Jeffrey Epstein for a time,

about seeing things in Epstein's apartment,

about cutting ties with him when he really didn't cut ties with him.

And I think that's why I asked the following line of questions

this morning.

I just want to play for you a small part of the conversation

I had with Comer and Mace earlier.

Watch.

Yesterday, you both told me that you were planning on asking

about an email that Howard Lutnik sent to Jeffrey Epstein.

I presume about a very offensive fundraising 2001.

If he's worth asking about, is he not worth asking

in to talk about what he might know?

And I think it'll be interesting when we hopefully

get that video out later today or to Mars quick,

as we can get it out.

I think it'll be interesting what Hillary Clinton

said about Howard Lutnik.

And how she said it.

We're going to continue to ask questions of everyone

that shows up in photos on the island and things like that.

And James, I'll ask you to cover Secretary.

I will be asking for him, yes.

So we're going to see the substance, Katie.

I don't want to dwell too much on that, though.

We're starting to get a little bit of a clue as to what

they might have been asking in regards

to a Lutnik, Hillary Clinton, a relationship of some kind

that might have revolved around Clinton as a senator trying

to help with 9-11 victims and the company

and bank that Lutnik worked with that

was centered at the World Trade Center.

But I want to focus on the result of that exchange, which

is that Congresswoman Nancy Mace, a Republican,

said that she wants to call Lutnik and Democrats

that I've spoken to since now say, OK,

they think they have the votes to do that.

And that would be significant.

You talk about the partisan politics.

It's one of the things that's gummed up the process.

But should we see the Commerce Secretary,

the current Commerce Secretary

to this Republican administration come in

at a Republican-led committee?

I do think that would be significant.

It's not the president, but it is significant.

Yeah, I agree.

Ali Vitale, thank you so much.

Tara Palmer, you're always good to have you.

And Lisa.

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That was another episode of the Tara Palmerry Show.

Thanks so much for tuning in.

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