Murder In Moscow: DNA Expert CeCe Moore Discusses The IGG Process

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1:01It's discovering the brands you love across beauty, fashion, home and culinary, all in one place. Whether you're getting ready for crisp mornings, cozy nights, or everyday moments, QVC has what you need for the season ahead, with brands like Lori Geller, Philosophy, Ninja, and so many more. Shop now at QVC.com. They've been saying from the very beginning that Brian Coburger's rights have been trampled upon, and that his constitutional rights have been thrown out the window. But the truth is, while the tactics used by the FBI do fall into a bit of a gray area, they did not do anything illegal,

2:06and certainly haven't stepped on this man's constitutional rights when it comes to the IGG information. Now, according to Coburger's team, they're going to say that the sheath was planted by another suspect, somebody else. Who that other person is? Well, your guess is as good as mine. Maybe it's a Chupa Cabra. Maybe it's Bigfoot. Maybe it's Nosferatu. It's anybody but Brian Coburger, at least according to his team. Today's article is from Fox News and the headline Brian Coburger case, FBI's DNA tactics didn't violate law, but they raise another public safety concern. This article was authored by Michael Ruiz. With great investigative power, genetic genealogists have a great responsibility to conduct themselves ethically to preserve a system that is entirely reliant on public participation, to solve violent crimes, according to CC Moore, a pioneer of the industry, and chief genetic genealogist at Parabond Nanolabs.

3:09Like I've never understood why anybody would send their genetics to one of these companies. You don't know if it's safe. You don't know what they're going to do with it. I mean, the way they sell our information on the internet, you're going to be comfortable sending your DNA to one of these companies. I mean, God bless if that's something you want to do. Great. Me personally, never going to happen. The use of investigative genetic genealogy to solve violent crimes has overwhelming public support, she said, but privacy concerns are still an issue in cases like the University of Idaho student murder suspect Brian Coburger's, where the FBI access to databases that purport to exclude law enforcement from their services. As a result, unwitting users could be submitting clues that lead detectives to their own relatives without knowing it. I don't think that's a good enough argument, honestly. And the second that you upload your information to one of these databases, well, what's so different than sending a phone call out and it getting captured by Apple and then the authorities using that information against you?

4:11What's the difference? If you don't want your information out there, don't put it out there. Pretty simple, in my opinion. Transcripts unsealed of a closed door hearing on the defense attempt to have DNA evidence thrown out of court, revealed that the FBI violated a Department of Justice in our own policy. In our own policy and terms of the service of the two private database agents turned to after the smaller ones, family tree DNA and GED match pro didn't pan out. So that was the whole entire genesis of the argument for Coburger, right? There was an interim policy in place and you didn't follow the guidelines of the companies. Well, I hate to break the news to Mr. Coburger, but the FBI, they pretty much do what they want. And if there's a way that they can skirt around the law or a procedure or a guideline, they're going to do it. You have to remember that they have armies of lawyers that are going to show up and say that you can do this, you can do that, you can't do this. Well, this is gray area and we'll win here.

5:13And that's exactly what happens. It's not just like some FBI agent is sitting around on his own. There's a whole bureaucracy here and a lot of people come in to make these decisions. And if we want to codify this into law that the police or FBI can't access these databases, then we need to make it a law. But just turning it into an interim policy, that's not going to cut it. Our policy is to stick with just those databases because of the concern that the public could turn against this tool more said, explaining why our team at the private lab avoids doing what the FBI did. We didn't want to just solve one case and lose out on being able to use this for potentially hundreds of thousands of millions of cases in the future. And that's certainly a legitimate concern. No doubt about it. But when we're talking about a situation like this, where we have the information in the database and that information is found by the investigators, I don't really think there's any kind of argument that could be made. Now you can make the loopholes and technicalities argument all you want.

6:16But as we've seen, the court is not very receptive to it. You have to have something behind it, right? Some kind of legal precedent, something to back it up. And if you don't have that chances are it's going to get slapped down in court like we seen here. And I think that any kind of move here by co-burgers team to try and say that the sheath was planted is going to be met with the same kind of force. You're going to have to prove that now, of course, the burden of proof is on the state. There is zero doubt. But if you come in making all these crazy claims as the defendant, you're going to have to have something to back that up. You can't just say whatever you want, right? I mean, you can, but the jury is going to expect some kind of concrete corroboration, something to back up what you're saying. And I think that's as of right now, what it looks like to everybody out here, but a few people is that that she has Brian co burgers DNA on it and it was under the body of a dead girl. So until you can explain that, well, good luck.

7:18And I don't think trying to say that it was planted is an explanation that anybody's really going to believe the FBI declined to comment and instead pointed to judge Stephen Hipplers February 17th order in which you wrote that investigators had not violated co-burgers. Constitutional rights or broken any laws when they uploaded samples to my heritage and GED match without the pro. And now, of course, co burgers only hope is on appeal. This is settled. There's no appealing this with judge Hibbler. This is what it is now and his only hope as far as, you know, getting this stuff thrown out eventually is on appeal. But considering what we've seen previously and considering how many judges have already had a look and all of them have come to the same conclusion. So I don't think even on appeal Brian co burger is going to have any success here. This is not the first case where this has been brought up more told Fox News digital. It's not the first case where a judge has weighed in on this question and made a similar ruling because legality and company's own terms of service are not the same thing.

8:20And so that is how the FBI is able to legally use the non consented database and the irony is not lost on me. The man who is using loopholes and technicalities as a strategy is having that same exact strategy turned on him when it comes to this situation with the FBI going into the database. They're using loopholes. They're using technicalities and they're using gray area. I believe over in the UK, the saying is turn about is fair play. For University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in their home on November 13th, 2022. Madison Mogen, Kayley Goncalves, Zanakernodal and Ethan Chapin. Under Mogen's body, police found a knife sheath that helped crack the case. It had a DNA sample on it. The sample did not match anyone in the FBI's national criminal database nor did it match anyone into small genealogy databases that share their material with law enforcement. And whenever you commit a crime, you get added to something called codeus and that is a database where the police can find out, you know who you are, what you've done before, etc, etc.

9:27Well, Brian Coburger had never committed a crime that we know about previously, so he wasn't part of codeus. So when they put his DNA in there, they didn't find anything. And that's why they moved on to the other procedures that we saw here. Pro football is back and so are predictions. Trade yours on CalShi America's number one prediction market platform. Dallas is currently trading at 59% to beat New York, meaning a hundred dollar trade pays out $162 if they win. Deload CalShi use code heart to get $20 when you trade 20 KALSHI CalShi trade on anything 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility apply trading involves risk not available in all jurisdictions. Rises, values and markets may differ from those mentioned for more C CalShi.com slash regulatory. Hi, this is Dave Roberts heading into summer without a medical emergency kit. That's a risk. Summer colds can linger and getting sick on vacation can derail everything. That's why everyone needs a medical emergency kit. It includes doctor prescribed medications to treat common and serious illnesses.

10:28So if you wake up sick, at home or on the road, you already have what you need. It's like having an urgent care and pharmacy at home. Say $45 with code blue at urgentcare kit.com slash blue. Life changes your sense of self shouldn't at Kingsley manner residents find the support they need to continue enjoying the people experiences and everyday moments that matter most discover a welcoming community in the heart of Los Angeles learn more at Kingsley manner dot org. So the FBI checked two other publicly accessible databases that ultimately led them to co burger who was first identified as a person of interest on December 19th 2022 and arrested on December 30th 2022. If investigators hadn't turned to IGG a suspect may have never been apprehended. They'd spent weeks with no solid leads, although co burger was studying for a PhD in criminology at Washington State University, just 10 miles from the crime scene.

11:30He had driven home to his parents in Pennsylvania before he was arrested. And if you remember the frantic search for co burger right after this or for the alleged killer, it was insane. You had people talking all kinds of crazy stuff. Meanwhile, this dude was what 2000 miles away in Pennsylvania. Remember how scared everybody was up in Moscow. People pulling their kids out of school. People getting karate training. People buying guns. People walking around with mace. All kinds of stuff. The more violent crimes I've been working in scene, the incredibly negative impact it has on surviving victims, their families and society as a whole, I can really see both sides now a lot more than I did when I first started working with law enforcement more said. There's certainly a part of me that is supportive of doing everything we can within the law to stop these people in their tracks. And that's what I was saying before. Look, if you don't want this to happen, codify a law put something on the books that says you cannot do this.

12:32But until then, this is going to be a resource that's being used by the authorities to try and help solve these crimes. In essence, law enforcement is allowed to go anywhere the public and more said, even though the individual database terms of service may say that detectives need to stay out, they aren't violating the law by going in anyway. The concern among critics, however, is that law enforcement could risk dissuading members of the public from participating in genetic genealogy testing over concerns that their data could be taken behind their backs despite companies claiming it's protected. Many users want to trace their family trees, not necessarily help solve crimes, and I get that. But unfortunately, you have to be very, very careful. What we want and what we get are usually two very different things as I am sure that most of you out there are well aware. The two largest databases, 23 and me and ancestry DNA, don't face this issue because they don't allow copied files of DNA samples to be uploaded.

13:35They require them to come directly from a source, a highly accurate sample from a cheek swab. That kind of sample typically doesn't exist in the early stages of a case where police turned IGG, usually with something collected from a crime scene. So far, the method continued to show strong public support, more said, most people out there want us to use this tool to stop violent criminals. She told Fox News Digital, I believe it was 91% of the people that we surveyed who said that they wanted use for this purpose. And I was surprised how many people even wanted to use for lesser crimes. Look, I'm all for it. Until they have some kind of law on the books, then people should be able to access this, including law enforcement. And remember when this all first started, I told you that it was a go-no-wear issue for co-burger. This is settled law. We've seen this already. There is precedent for them to use this technology to go after people that they're investigating. And while Antaylor certainly gets a nod of the cap for trying, it was never going to go anywhere. And I think that until they codify something, you're going to see a lot more of this.

14:38And as far as work and served up here at Moscow, you're going to be hearing a whole lot more about the IGG stuff as we move forward, Magnum mistake, because pretty much the whole entire thing hinges on this IGG information and this DNA. So like usual, we'll continue to keep an eye on things, and as more information becomes available, we'll get it added to the catalog. If you'd like to contact me, you can do that at Bobbi Kupuchi at protonmail.com. That's bobbcapucci at protonmail.com. Or if you prefer, you can find me on x at bobby underscorecapucci. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. Hi, this is Dave Roberts. Heading into summer without a medical emergency kit, that's a risk. Summer colds can linger and getting sick on vacation can derail everything. That's why everyone needs a medical emergency kit. It includes doctor prescribed medications to treat common and serious illnesses. So if you wake up sick, at home or on the road, you already have what you need.

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