New Demand Letter Claiming They Saw Nancy, Investigation Concerns and No Known Leads Yet

Day 64 still no sight of Nancy Guthrie. However, there are two new demand letters that just came into TMZ. We're going to get to that in a moment as a daughter. Savannah Guthrie returns to her job on the today show holding it together on air and stepping outside and things kind of come apart a little bit.

Savannah Guthrie had to fight through some emotion in front of the world. News reporting raising questions continuing to about the investigation into Nancy Guthrie's disappearance did investigators start this case looking in the entirely wrong direction and right now do they even have a suspect on their radar.

Welcome to the global phenomenon surviving the survivor where we bring you the best guests in all of true crime. Here's your host, Emmy award winning journalist Joel Walton.

What's up the STS nation welcome to survive and survivor. This is the global phenomenon more than 50 countries represented in the best community not just on YouTube, but in all the world. This is the show bringing you the very best guests in true crime.

And tonight we're going to be reporting on the latest developments in the case of Nancy Guthrie who as I said is now been missing for 64 days and here to break it down are all star panel that has been with us on this case starting off with the godfather of true crime.

True crime three time Las Vegas officer of the year retired homicide detective retired undercover narcotics. He was a two-packed Shakur's autopsy.

What else do you want to know his name is Phil Ramos Phil. Thank you for being here next up. He's the commander. He is retired since early January.

Pima County retired SWAT commander Bob Krieger and next up one of his retired colleagues as well. These guys are too young to be retired, but nevertheless they are retired.

He is wearing his Michigan Wolverines baseball hat the NCAA finals on tonight. Around 830 PM Eastern I promise these guys will be all fair by then.

Kirk dab retired homicide detective Pima County. Hey had Arizona shirt and then a Michigan hat Michigan shirt Arizona happen now it is just Michigan all the way.

I got to tell you I'm rooting for the Yukon Huskies just to be a pain in everyone's ass. I'm from the East Coast and Hurley's from New Jersey. So got a root for them and look at this love.

Phil and Bob what about Kurt what about Kurt. He'll be there we'll get we'll see Kurt.

So let's start off we're getting some breaking news right out of the gates and without further ado let me just play it for you. A lot of people are shaking their heads and here's one Phil Bob and Kurt.

Thank you guys for being here really grown to like my new friends in Pima County and of course Phil Ramos but once again TMZ going on air and saying these aren't really ransom notes are being described or called ransom notes.

This is more of a demand letter because this is coming from somebody who claims to know Nancy Guthrie's whereabouts and other people are going to say hey SCS why did you air this because it's news and we don't know what's going on and when you listen to Harvey 11 in this he tends to think that this is potentially real although it seems like law enforcement is not taking it too seriously and if they are taking it too seriously.

We haven't really been privy as to why so without further ado this is owner of TMZ Harvey 11 and his co anchor here just a few moments ago.

Share a little bit of news with you the person who has been incessantly contacting us and stop for a while stop for a while we got another letter today from this person an email saying I know where her body is and who the kidnapper is give us give me half a bit coin and I'll tell you and this person has been really persistent knowing that if it's a scam it's a federal crime.

But they also made the point that they want to make it clear that they have nothing to do with it right they've been out of the country but who knows we forwarded to the FBI as we have in the past and from what a reason and this is the thing we haven't figured out.

You have to assume that the law enforcement they believe that this person is not legit otherwise they would have advised Savannah to pay the money.

I'm going to hold it right there one thing that struck me is in this description this oral description by the way TMZ got these two guys just standing in the middle of a room and in this third guy just looking at them like their aliens that just landed in this newsroom so kind of a weird setup but who am I to talk is TMZ has a hell of a lot of people looking at them then they do it us which is a sad statement.

However, the Godfather let me start with you once again TMZ rearing their heads here whether you like it or not claiming that it got not one but two letters when they were discussing it just now they were talking about Nancy Guthrie's body but in the body of the article the actual TMZ article.

This person claims to have seen her alive Nancy Guthrie alive with whoever the abductors are in the state of St. Norris I'm not sure why they came on the TMZ video saying body when apparently the within the actual story it claims that she was seen alive in the state of St. Norris.

Phil Ramos your reaction to just yet another TMZ interjection here into this case now 64 days in apparently to mother letter and then a second letter that followed now they're asking for a half of Bitcoin apparently which makes zero sense to me considering that the reward money is at 1.2 million and a half of Bitcoin would be somewhere in the maybe $40,000 range.

Yeah it just doesn't make any sense like anything that has come out of TMZ has made no sense at all I mean what why even bother with the clickbait here and just just call the FBI say hey we got something here what's the point of going on the air and do this it's ridiculous and apparently it's great t-shirt day there at TMZ so everybody's got the word to wear the same thing.

I'm just shaking my head because they're still trying to get publicity out of this it's let's let's let's get let's get a little direct and and a little bit of information that people don't want to hear at this particular point.

If Nancy was killed and we all think that she was even if they know where her remains are with the amount of time that's passed it's going to be very difficult to get her positively identified.

She her body's decomposed to the point where she's not going to be recognizable physically so it's going to be a lot of science and a lot of DNA so.

And then the point of the amount of money you know the million dollars is a heck of a lot more and they're not asking for any anything except where is where is her body you know let's be frank and you know it's there's not that in my view there's just no chance at this poor thing still alive so why even play that game with them.

This is a funny comment which is why I brought it up Harvey speaks more than nanostas interesting.

I got to be honest and I'm not just saying this for the losing the odds but if people are sending surviving survivor these notes I would not be reading them I would just be sending them to the FBI because that's what you really should be doing.

And I've talked about this before on our biggest case I've had someone come to me with some pretty big leads which is a Dan Marquell story and I just went straight to authorities with that and really that's what they should be doing but you know what they're getting tons of clicks and we're playing it on the on the show but it's it's news we just don't know if it's.

It's quote unquote real news take news middle the ground news I have no idea but let's play out the rest of the clip here because they get into few more the details again what's tripping me up is when you read the actual article it says they saw her live when you heard them discussing it they're referring to her body so I don't know if these guys have even read their own story who knows at this point but here's the rest of what they had to say.

Can we just be really transparent I think you're right that the law enforcement doesn't there's something I just can't figure out why there's some flyer the price of Bitcoin is is much lower now these are like you can just take a flyer and see what the person knows the most you lose is 20 grand 25 grand.

I'll tell you why my spidey senses tell me that there's something about this guy because one of the one of the emails he said early on time is of the essence to do this.

And then the next day he said time is no longer of the essence if he was pulling a scam why would you say time is no longer of the essence.

You know you want to keep the value you want to keep the information and the fact that he said this made me think this guy knows some.

Yeah it's a way to look on and it says no but I'm not look right.

We don't have the order of you know all the information they are but you're talking to some outside looking in it sure seems like this person knows something.

Kurt let me come to you first with a comment from Sandy Baker who's emphasizing your name I think because you were left out of the last comments I just want you to feel whole here and here it is.

Sandy Baker within all caps Kurt um so uh Kurt um you know in one letter they say time is the essence the next letter says time is not of the essence I guess Harvey took that as an honest.

You know admission the time is no longer important so why wouldn't you believe this guy.

What do you make of this.

I don't know I'm kind of with Phil it's it's getting you know a little bit ridiculous this TMZ aspect of it.

I agree you know I think that they should just keep quiet past the stuff under the FBI.

It's thankfully though on the flip side of that coin thankfully it's keeping the case alive right it's the media it's keeping the media attention still.

But you know I just think if this is my mom do I want to have to keep seeing TMZ shit you know all over the news about hey you know we're getting this ransom note and I don't know I just think it's.

It's over the top yeah and you know what I got some clarity here so it's not Harvey's fault forgive me I never remember the other guy's name but the co host.

But it's apparently the person who wrote the letter Bob in one of the letters because he sent to kind of back to back.

One the first letter I presume he says I saw hardest direct quote I saw her alive with them in the state of Sonora Mexico and then either not letter of the following letter claims Nancy is dead.

They just refer to it as in a separate message so in one note I presume I saw him alive and then in the next note Nancy is dead.

Is that a pretty big clue for law enforcement if this guy sends notes back to back and in one letter.

She's alive and in the next letter she's dead that there's a problem with a person sending a note unless you saw her two different times but the claims definitely seem to contradict one another.

Yeah well what everybody else already said I think what most people are actually feeling you know TMZ a few weeks ago said they weren't going to report on this anymore and it went silent and I doubt they got many but the second they get another email from it sounds like the same person who sent the ones early on.

Is it semantics on the writers part it could be but but at the same time it all goes back to in my professional opinion it's probably a hoax that being said it's something that they're going to follow up on the FBI and the detectives work in the case they have to in really that's just the electronic trail trying to figure out who's sending these things.

Do I think that person saw her most likely not do I think that person knows her exact condition most likely not but I think it's a safe assumption like Phil said she's probably passed by now so it's I think I said it before it's like a good psychic out there.

I could sit there and write this in 10 seconds out of crime I knew nothing about and start putting all these little vague statements out there and people are going to buy into it.

Oh, we need to follow up on doesn't mean we don't but at the same time it's TMZ a million dollars a lot more than you know 30,000 so you do the math there as well.

Yeah, I don't know what Bitcoin's trading at I think last I saw the 70s or 80s to buy that by two and then compared to the 1.2 million I think someone is haunting Savannah there are a lot of sick people out there.

Serenity could be right about that but Phil Ramos let's talk about this first of all the the demands in this demand letter.

They want a Bitcoin payment half up front half later and claims that they can provide the quote unquote identity the kidnappers and the location which is somewhere they say in Sonora, Mexico, but Phil Ramos from an invest from from a from an FBI.

How do I understand point specifically what do you have to do because this is going to get handed off to the FBI.

Almost certainly not to Pima County and if you're the you know you if you're working at the agency.

I'm assuming correct me if I'm wrong that you can't just feel like oh geez here's TMZ and just like toss it in the garbage behind you know over your shoulder you gotta do something with it.

So what do you have to do now Phil?

You got to do your due diligence like you would on any other lead and you probably have

to do a little bit more because of the nature of this information and the way it was brought

forward.

It's, you know, the FBI's got tools that the Sheriff Department doesn't and they need

to utilize those tools to find out number one if they can locate the IP address and make

some kind of connection with that which I'm surprised they haven't done that yet with

the previous letters that they came.

I mean, in my mind, they would have done what the FBI does and at least gotten a location

where these letters were originating from and followed up on that.

I don't think it's a matter of, do they have the time and money to do that?

Of course they do.

Look at, look how much has been spent on this investigation already.

What's going to be a few thousand dollars more and trying to get out, get the legitimacy

of these letters verified and go from there.

I think our one viewer probably has something going there that they're taunting Savannah,

which would go back to the motive for this happening in the first place if that's what

the motive was and if it was in that direction.

But we still don't know any more about the motive than we did 60 days ago and it's a matter

of why did this happen?

And is it just a coincidence that it was a high profile public individual who is suffering

from this along with her siblings and the rest of her family?

I don't know that there's a clear answer to that.

Yeah.

Let me take a break from the breaking news and this breaking news is actually much more

important to STS and our family in a very sad bit of news and I was partly running

late because of that and it's been a very long, heavy day, but I got word late last night

that Steve Cohen's father suddenly passed away in his 80s and Steve recently lost his

mother.

So it's been a tragic time for Steve, he's gone through a really, really, really tough

time and COE and Spacey are trying to be there for him.

We're going to do something obviously a little more formal and I'll show some pictures

of it.

His dad was a great guy.

I got to meet him a bunch of times, a very, very funny, very, very, very smart guy and

even though he's in his late 80s, he's still gone way too soon and he took amazing care

of his wife who he's married to for well over 60 years.

So it's been a very difficult bit of months for Steve and the whole STS family and I wanted

to mention it off the top but I just, we had this breaking news from TMZ and Nancy and

all that.

I'm going to get some photos from Steve of his father and his mom.

We've shown photos of his mom before and we'll put up the COE, we'll put up a YouTube

community post if you want to wish him condolences and send him a message, you'll be able

to do that on the YouTube page but we really are a family here and he lost both parents

very close in time to each other so I will be saying a prayer for Steve's night and

thank you guys for listening to me on that one.

Bob, to you, so the letters again according to at least Harvey Levin are being turned

over to the FBI but apparently it appears and we really don't know what's going on

because the FBI keeps a very tight lip but they keep sending them so the, I guess the

assumption is that this person hasn't gotten anything in return for these letters which

makes you think that law enforcement is kind of blowing off whoever this person is because

they probably don't think they have enough credibility.

Is that what you read through the tea leaves that they are not finding this to be credible

enough to move forward and make some sort of payment?

My guess is they're not really making that decision.

There might be some internal conversations kind of like we're having but they're going

to treat it as credible until it could be found out otherwise.

That being said when it comes to investigations like this, no law enforcement agency is ever

going to pay a ransom.

That would be completely up to the family if they wanted to go that route working with

the, working with the law enforcement with the FBI with the Sheriff's Department all of

those types of things but no one is ever going to pick up that bill.

We've had them happen all the time and you just, you work through that.

You work through those deadlines.

It's just not something that's going to happen as far as the investigation goes.

Now the family might say all right, I'm willing to do that and then you come up with a plan

and figure out how you're going to do it, where you're going to do it, all those things

and go drop your Bitcoin in the trash in the middle of Central Park and let someone

come by and pick it up, however it's going to work out but I do think they're treating

this credible simply because it's like all those other leads you have to.

When you're doing this, you can't dismiss something based on what you feel because guess

what?

We might be wrong.

You might be wrong and we talked I think last week about second set of eyes and things

like that, looking at it from different perspectives.

You always have to do that.

You have to treat all of these things like they're legit until you can prove that they're

not.

Lest you think we are not global and I just am making stuff up off the top of the show

of VCC.

Look at this modern age, the modern day consumer of news, watching on a flight from Aruba International

to Toronto, international, hence the global phenomenon.

VCC have a safe flight and thank you for watching on that and say hello to the pilot for

me.

Kurt dab, the Mexico angle, forget the TMZ note, but you work that and the reality of

where Tucson is 60 miles from Tucson is there's a lot of cartel movement, a lot of drug

movement.

I mean, you think there's a legitimate chance that she could be in Mexico or this was

done by someone south of the border potentially?

Well, I think it would be silly to discount that or discredit that information if that information

came in, but I think it's absolutely reasonable that she could be down there.

There's specific things that happen when a missing person goes or certain steps that

the investigators have to take and one of those steps that should be done or should have

been done early on is notifying all the POE's, all the ports of entry in Arizona, New Mexico,

California.

I don't know about Texas, but why not the whole southern border?

Looking for any vehicles that go in from this time frame to this time frame.

So now the FBI, the task force, if you will, can go back and I hope that they've been looking

at all of those vehicles that have gone through because they know the time frame,

they went back and did it.

I just don't know if the information got about the kidnapping and the missing person originally got,

you know, the POE's get that information immediately.

I don't know what the time frame was.

So it's theoretically they could have drove through the border through a POE.

They could have simply drove a number of undesignated routes that smugglers use in and out of

Mexico through Aravaca, different places. You know, we have a couple, almost a couple a hundred

mile border with Mexico. There's a lot of places to get in and out of. So yeah, I think it's possible.

But the only information I think that has even touched on that are, you know, some of these

ransom notes that are coming in. And it's my understanding, those ransom notes are coming in

to TMZ through a non-tracked thing on their website. It's not even an email that gets sent from

somewhere. Someone just fills out a form and, you know, sends it. So whether or not they're going

to be able to have any luck tracking down that, I don't think so. But they did catch one of the dudes.

Yeah. Isogal used to be Isogal Oksu. Now it's Isogal O Music from Turkey. Look at this.

Gifting 50 memberships. Thank you so much. Isogal. Incredibly generous of you.

Phil Ramos, let's just talk for a minute since the demand letter brings up Sonora, Mexico,

which is just south of the border. In what ways? I mean, have you personally ever worked with

law enforcement in Mexico from, you know, Vegas standpoint? And what is that relationship like?

I'm sure you have. Yeah, I have. And it's it's not it's not a good one. I mean, we had we had a

female fugitive that was in Mexico for a year. The FBI tried to use their resources to to get her

taken into custody. But here's here's what the Mexican authorities wanted. This was a case file

that was three volumes, probably a thousand pages worth of reports. The Mexican authorities wanted

us to have our entire case file translated into Spanish given to them. And then they would

determine if we had enough probable cause to arrest her. So they made it as difficult as they could.

Probably because she was down there living, paying off the cops that, you know, don't

don't hear believe anything you hear from me. It all depends on the legitimacy of the agency

that you're dealing with. I mean, they're, you know, I don't mean to cast dispersions on a country

in general, but man, there's so much corruption on those border states and and the ports eventually,

like Kurt was talking about, you could they've got it down to where, you know, they'll call a guy

up and say, hey, we're coming through or, you know, in a black van and there's bundles in the

back just wave us through. And, you know, as they, as they're going through, they toss out an envelope

with a thousand dollars in it. And I mean, that happens all the time. Yeah. Um, I, Bill, I would assume

that the threshold for probable cause is probably equal in here in America and Mexico. I don't think

threshold for probable cause any higher in Mexico. Um, how frustrating was that for you to deal with?

It was very frustrating. I mean, we tried to go through the state department. We tried going

through the embassy. We did everything we could and the FBI was fully on board cooperating with us

and, you know, with their with their contacts in Mexico, but even they couldn't get past that. And

we knew exactly where this woman was. What she was doing, her daily routine, but, you know, we don't

have any authority in Mexico. The FBI doesn't have authority in Mexico. Only the Mexican cops can arrest,

make arrest in their own country. And, and for that reason, you know, they're, you know, it's like

the old days when you wanted to go see a show on the strip. If you didn't have $20 to tip the

MHD, you were sitting up in the nosebleeds instead of on the front row. I tell you, you don't have

to fight with people from Pittsburgh. Everyone from Pittsburgh, for some reason, is very nice. I've

never met a not nice person from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And there is Kelly McLellan. So, uh,

shout out to Pittsburgh, which I don't think I've ever done till this very moment. Let me just take

us. It's a Monday. It was got heavy for a few minutes there. So let me just take us completely off

the rails and Bob actually mentioned this in his last or two answers ago. So Bob, to you, have you ever

known, uh, you guys, Pima, TPD, anyone to use the services of a psychic or a medium to help with

the case? Is that something that, uh, you would get in trouble for? So officially use them. I'm not

aware of our agency ever doing that. You know, uh, you, you hear about anecdotically on, on, uh,

you know, TV shows, forensic files, things like that. But I will say this, I've worked cases before

and I'll go back to my time when I was our night detective squad supervisor. And we were working a,

I'm gonna call it a start of a similar case. We had a female who disappeared from her house.

And she ended up walking away and she was about, she was located about a mile from her house.

Um, and it was, it got some national attention. I don't know why, but there were several psychics who

kept calling in. And I didn't want to, we were told to follow up on it. And if it would come in

in the evening hours, uh, our squad would deal with it. So I didn't want to task my guys and

gals who were investigating other things to, to go chase a psychic around. So I actually went and

did some of the things and it was pretty much a geography based. Hey, I feel like she's here and I

could go walk the desert a little bit in the, in the area. So I can say I have officially followed

up on it. How official it was, uh, it wasn't like they were being paid or anything like that. And I

do know that during this case, psychics have reached out to the sheriff's department. Um, and I don't

know the amount of follow up that they did. But again, it's, it's one of those tips. You know,

you don't want to bypass the one psychic who is actually a psychic. It's difficult. But you know,

it's all balancing act. Um, you know, I can go back to the case. I was referencing and everything

that was told to us from that psychic was completely wrong. Wasn't even in the area where the,

where the, where the victim was located. Um, so, you know, it is what it is. Uh, but on the official

does it happen? No. Are there some follow ups? Yes, there are going to be some.

And then there's, uh, remote viewers who are actually some of them from the military who

apparently can, uh, find things. But I don't know. Uh, I don't know. I've never seen them, uh, used

here. Uh, Bob, I got to ask you. I mean, you're, uh, you're significant other. You're,

your wife, when you were a swat commander, uh, can't be easy to be the wife of a swat commander.

Um, how does that go down? Like you're basically called out your life on the line every third night.

Um, does she even, like after a while, does she ask how it's going? Uh, does she forget about you?

How does all that work? Oh, she forgot about me a long time ago.

She was never, it's, it's weird to say she was never really that interested. And I wouldn't come

home and regale her with stories. She would actually, she's actually found out about some shootings

that we were involved in. Um, like I was shot at and like a week or two later, she would find

out because someone like Kurt would come by and say, hey, did you hear about this? Like, why wouldn't

you tell me about that? Well, I got home late and you were sleeping and I woke up and you were at

work and then by then I forgot about it. Um, so it was always a good, and maybe that's why we,

we've done so well and we've balanced it out and, you know, just was always good about,

you know, those types of things. And, and I'm sure early on, like every law enforcement family,

it was a lot more worrisome. Um, and then she's like, you know, we, I would go out with incredibly

highly trained men and women and we kicked some asses. I'd come home. As long as I came home,

she really didn't care. As long as there wasn't that knock that everybody worries about.

Well, that's the most important thing. Thankfully, no knocks for Kurt or Bob. Um, Kurt, let's just

put a, a period on this part of the show relating to the TMZ. If you're just tuning in, TMZ got not

one, but two new, I'll call them demand letters. Uh, it appears since there's, you know, number one

conflicting claims here, one letter says, uh, saw them alive. The other says it saw the body.

The source is totally anonymous. It's got this ridiculous pay a half Bitcoin now and a half

Bitcoin later, um, demand wise. Um, do you think it's fairly safe to call this a hoax, Kurt?

Well, I mean, I think like, you know, it was just earlier in the show that whether or not it's a

hoax, it has to be followed up on. It's going to give that the task force detectives and

special agents something to do. Um, but again, I don't think that they're going to get anywhere

with it based on the pre, go ahead. I'm sorry. I thought you were done. Um, what, what's it do to,

what about from like an investigation process? Uh, does this, I mean, does it really like

muddy up the investigation? Well, not this specific tip because, you know, like I said earlier,

the way that the tips are coming into TMZ is are coming in through a tip line. That's

completely anonymous. The sheriff's sparmony's even has them. So they're not, I don't think there's

much follow up that's going to be able to be done. This person says two letters that are different

low location, uh, sounds a bit shady. A lot of nutty people out there who are thinking, well, maybe

I can benefit off of this. Um, the person who's living this, uh, aside from, uh, Cameron and Annie

is of course, Savannah got three hosts of the today's show. And today, uh, she made her return on

day 64. I believe it is. Uh, 64 days later, she returned to the today's show. Let's, uh, watch

this as, uh, human beings here, not as law enforcement officers. Let's watch this as humans.

And we'll get the guys reaction in a minute. So today on this Monday morning, we are so glad you

started your week with us. And it is good to be home. Yes. It is good to have you back at home.

Well, here we go. Ready or not. Let's do the news. Yes. So good to have you back.

We are back back in April on this beautiful Monday morning. And it's a special Monday morning.

For us, and for this crowd as well, special, uh, because we're welcoming back on your store.

Yes. She come on out here. Come on back up.

Good morning. Good morning. They've been waiting. Uh, they've been feeling. These signs are so beautiful.

You guys have been so beautiful. I received so many letters, so much kindness to me and my whole

family. We feel it. We feel your prayers. So thank you so much. Thank you. It's not just today.

They've been out here every day. This is such a nice pocket square. I don't want to

answer. How would I leave a million? I'm sorry. I have nothing to add to that.

Phil Romos to the Godfather there first. Uh, your thoughts on that?

What an incredibly strong woman that is. Um, you just, your heart breaks for her and the

amount of sentiment and love that was in that crowd to her who wouldn't break down on that.

I just can't speak enough to the courage that she showed going back there, a lot of people

just wouldn't be able to pull it off.

This is a life changing event for all of them, forever.

Their lives are never going to be the same because of this.

And for her to have that inner strength and the ability to do what she does as a professional

in her business, it's frankly just admirable.

Yeah, you see Leap and Tennessee here is always in the chat.

I hope for Savannah that being back at work brings her another step in strength and healing.

Current, you've been open about, you know, dealing with personal issues and PTSD.

What kind of benefit do you think this will have or maybe not a benefit or distraction or

deterrent, I don't know, but what do you think going back to work will do for Savannah

Guthrie?

As part of the grieving process, and it's extremely important to still carry on with

your life and make it as normal as you can.

And normalcy for her is going back home to New York, going back to work in front of

the country and in front of the world.

So I give her kudos, like Phil said, she's, I'll say it a little less succinctly, she's

got balls of steel.

I love that she went out there and showed her face and showed her emotions because I

cannot even, my mom lives down in Florida, Joe.

And if anything ever happened to her, I'm sorry, you're going to be one of the first

guys to get a call, you know, because it's, I can't imagine what she's going through.

So I think it's absolutely awesome that she got back there and she's starting to get

some semblance of normalcy.

Yeah.

I asked, you know, after I got the news about Steve, I checked on my mom and I think,

you know, people don't realize any age when you lose your parents, doesn't matter if

you're 5, 10, if you're 100 and they're 120, it's incredibly difficult.

So I'm with, I'm with Kurt on that.

It's sort of a giant FU to have her did this that she's out there fighting despite, it's

not easy.

And, you know, I've been on air during very difficult moments.

I know a lot of people that have been on air during very difficult moments, personally

being busy is good for me.

I don't know how it's different for everybody else.

You saw these signs, Commander Bob, decide and do.

And I think that's something that her mother told her when her father, when her husband passed,

you've got to decide and do if I'm correct about that.

It definitely comes from one of her two parents and so someone had that sign, decide and do.

What kind of message does this send to have to have her did this, Bob?

The first thing, like the other guys have said, you're not going to beat me.

You can hurt me, but you're not going to beat me.

I'm strong and everyone deals with, with tragedy differently and to see her back at work.

She even said they said, welcome home, and I thought that was pretty cool.

If that's where she feels comfortable, she's there at 10, 12 hours a day.

All of us would say the same thing.

I know when I lost people going back to work was one of those biggest steps in the healing process.

We're getting back to some normalcy, like everyone has said, and this is completely different

than anything I think any of us have been through.

Death is one thing to have this happen.

It's completely different because you don't have answers.

You don't have that closure, but life still moves on for everyone and everyone deals with

that differently and how you individualize that and how you move on is just part of the

healing process and to have those signs out there in the crowd, you know, say, those

quotes that her mom said to her, that's going to help her and it's just going to be part

of this process.

There are going to be peaks and valleys.

We all know that.

She's going to probably break down on air.

Things are going to, like this TMZ stuff is going to kick up.

She's going to hear that at the workplace, at home, all of those things.

But, you know, Kudos to her and to everyone for supporting her and being there today.

I thought that was, I was wondering when it would happen and, you know, it happened today.

I thought that was very cool.

Yeah.

April 6th.

She's back at work.

Judy Herbert, thank you for your generosity, always gifting us super chats and thank you

for being a part of the community here.

Phil, I mean, to that point, great point by Bob, you know, things are going to quote

unquote, kick up like you just said and lo and behold, she's definitely home from work

because it's an early morning show.

But, you know, like 5 PM Eastern in that hour is roughly or 6 Eastern is when that TMZ

news broke on the East Coast.

What do you think that does to her and the, you know, in her siblings?

She in particular because she's on air.

It's this wave again of agony and now she's supposed to be back on the show.

I'm sure she has an understanding that if something's too difficult, she can, you know,

be out tomorrow.

But, what about these waves of information, bits and pieces and then not knowing?

How do you think that's going to affect her as she moves along hosting the today show?

Well, she's very resilient.

We've all seen that and, you know, both Kurt and Bob have brought up some excellent

points.

We both, we all have lost good friends in the line of duty and it's heartbreaking.

And sometimes it's easier to go back to work and sometimes it's not for her to be able

to do this.

It's amazing to me because it's, you know, you've lost someone very close to you and

the trauma that comes from that, especially with a parent, it's so hard to overcome.

It just, it all depends on how well you can handle the trauma associated with losing

a loved one.

I mean, my own wife is going through tons of trauma with losses that she's had in the

last couple of months and it's amazing how resilient you can be.

But it's also, you know, those little demons creep into your head and it's hard to get

them out and set the grieving process like Kurt said earlier, it just, it's sometimes

it takes a long time to get through that grieving process.

Mm-hmm.

Nancy would be so proud of Savannah.

Thank you for that.

Phil, this is from S. Somerville.

I have no doubt I was actually going to go to Kurt next.

However, this is definitely more of a Bob kind of a question here.

I thought this was interesting.

You see the crowd.

I'll play it with no audio this time.

And then I'll ask the question here.

We'll see you today on both that one.

But this is, you'll see the crowd shot and Bob, I was reading.

They only let 75 people in.

I don't know what they do on a normal day and they all went through a metal detector from

a tactical standpoint for a lunatic.

This is an occasion to maybe figuratively and literally take a shot at someone like

Savannah got three had to be a very high secure security day at 30 rock.

Talk us through that.

Explain that.

I mean, they're crazy people out there.

There's a lot of great people, but there's also a lot of crazy people.

What do you have to do to protect, even though it's just 75 people, again, these people could

be targets.

There could be someone in there that's targeting Savannah.

So how do you deal with this from a tactical standpoint, which is your job as a swat commander?

This is, I don't say it's easy, but you start the inside and you work out off camera.

I would imagine this just because of the dynamic of what's going on that they're, she has

some sort of detail, a little personal protective detail that is there specifically for her in

case something happens swoop in, get her to a safe room.

Now from an exterior standpoint, you've got New York, you've got tens of thousands of

windows and you just can't control all of that.

But controlling what comes and goes, having a lot of eyes on the exterior, seeing what's

going on.

And as well as things, you just can't live in fear.

You can't stop everything.

You just look at that building directly behind them.

I see literally hundreds of threats and you can't cover them all.

So you set up observation posts, you set up whatever they might have access to.

And I don't know what the today's show has.

I don't know she has a personal detail of NYPD or the FBI still helping out with things

like that.

I imagine there'd be a higher amount of officers in the area today.

That's just because of what you've said and what's been going on in the threats that

have been made and just the actuality of it.

But it's just a matter of identifying the threats and putting people in good positions to deal

with them.

It's not actually hard if you have the resources.

And it's something that when cops do this, what's what teams do it, it's pretty easy

quite honestly because you've done it so often.

But what sorts of situation I'm curious and Tucson, what would elicit the need to have

a sniper on a roof outside of let's say the president visiting?

I've deployed it, unfortunately, police officer's funerals.

It's usually dignitary protection ones, higher ranking officials.

I've done it for, I've worked personally for five presidents.

I have done king and queen details, dignitaries, scotis, Supreme Court justices that have been

here.

The likes of Bill Gates and Jimmy or Jimmy Buffett, Warren Buffett and a lot of folks, they

come to Tucson on occasion, rent out resorts and they hire us to provide security.

So it's all things like that.

It's high pro, it's always a high pro.

People who have a higher profile, who, you know, not jobs will come out and sometimes

try and do things.

I've done it for witnesses at, you know, at trials and we've also done it for the suspects

at trials because they have had such a threat on them, we've actually had to provide some

security details for them.

So right there, it runs the gamut of things that you can have to put the details together

for.

Right.

For a police officer's funeral because you're afraid that the perps or bad guys are going

to take shots at the cops things, yeah, it's just they're different in nature.

They bring out all kinds of people.

If you remember the Gabby Gifford shooting and it was a Christina Taylor green was the

nine year old who was killed the same day at the same shooting.

We had Westboro Baptist coming in and they heard and the hell's angels heard about that.

So it's not so much it's it's the ancillary folks those hangers on just the people who

don't know how to react, you know, there's it's such a different dynamic when a city's

getting closed down and you have these, you know, processions that are miles long and just

people that come out for these types of things are sometimes not thinking straight.

So you just never know who's going to show up and that's for the way with those types

of things you're for.

Now does your wife know that you did protection for five presidents or does she not even know

that?

No, she does.

She does know that because those are usually long, long days, like I was before in the bushes

today.

Um, Kurt, this next thing, you know, I know that you said last time you're your fairly

religious guy and you go to church, one of the things that came up over the weekend

that will get back to the investigation for the remaining minutes.

And one of the things that came up, um, she wasn't, Savannah was just questioning, I think,

which is something any normal person would do, um, but it came up about, um, you know,

just her relationship with God and why is this stuff happening to me?

Um, I think that's a very normal human reaction to your thoughts.

Yeah, I know it's absolutely, but I relisted with God two years ago and, you know, I lived

without him for, for a very long time, I'm not going to turn this into a sermon or anything,

but, um, having him back in my life has, you know, paid dividends untold fold, I can't

even count.

Um, so having strong faith in that if it's God's will, you know, she will be returned safely.

And if it's not in God's will, well, that's not for us to decide decisions like those

are made at a higher level, then we are ever even going to be able to understand.

So I just continue to pray for her, for her family and, you know, the safe return and

or recovery of Nancy as soon as possible.

And I truly do believe that this case is going to be solved.

It's just a matter of time.

It's literally a matter of time.

Uh, I agree.

It's going to be soft.

And I agree.

And it's probably going to be soft.

Definitely will be solved when we least expect it because no one's expecting it to happen

right now, but it could, uh, COE is this, uh, this is a sound bite, um, can you play

this one?

COE.

This is Savannah talking, uh, by the way, just so you know, this is to her church.

I believe.

Can you work via video here?

His revival and resurrection mean the same for us.

We celebrate today the promise of a new life that never ends in death.

But standing here today, I have to tell you, there are moments in which that promise

seems irretrievably far away when life itself seems far harder than death.

These moments of deep disappointment with God, the feeling of utter abandonment.

For most of us, there will come a time in our life when these feelings hold sway.

In our tradition, we are taught to take comfort in the fact that our friend, Jesus, and his

short life experienced every single emotion that we humans can feel that is taking on the

form of humanity, made him not a distant observer to our pain, but a hands-on experience

or of it.

When we celebrate today, this is what we celebrate.

And I celebrate too.

I still believe.

And so I say with conviction, happy Easter.

Phil Ramos, you know, she says there's moments where life seems harder than death.

You know, she's experienced deep feelings of abandonment, but she still has faith.

And it's tough, man, born and raised Catholic, I was an altar boy and into the church and

in my youth, but the downside to being a police officer, homicide detective, is you see

the ugliest things that humans are capable of doing to other humans.

A subsection of that is the innocent children that suffer the way that they suffer.

And it has caused me to question my faith.

I mean, how could God let a three-year-old child lose their life by a parent by being shot

in the head?

How is a seven-year-old girl stuffed in a toilet after she was sexually assaulted and

strangled?

I would ask our priests at the church that I explained this to me.

I have a really hard time understanding this.

And I've questioned my belief in my faith in God that God would let that happen.

And you know, the standard answer, we don't have an answer to that.

It's just God's will.

And to me, it's like, I don't get it.

I don't know if I, if I buy that, I don't accept the suffering that these little children

go through because of why nobody has a good answer for that.

Excellent point.

It has the same thing.

You know, I'm part of the Jewish faith.

I've more than once asked a rabbi questions like that.

And they don't always have the answer.

But sometimes the answer is that there is no answer.

You just have to have the faith.

Bob, you haven't weighed in on this light topic.

Your thoughts.

She's questioning, I don't think she's questioning Jesus.

I don't think she's questioning her relationship.

I think she's just asking some questions.

What do you think?

I think that's exactly it.

Phil and Ryan had the things that we see in our professions in the near hundred years

between the three of us that we've encountered.

You always ask that.

You almost ask that on a daily basis, why, how, you know, all of these things, and having

that faith to fall back on is huge.

I will never question anyone's faith, no matter what it is, whether it's religious

based, whether it's science based, those are individual decisions that each person gets

to make.

I will respect everyone the way they want to choose to live their lives.

And in this situation to hear what she had to say, it's like Phil, I was born and raised

Catholic.

And you know, I'll say now I'm a typical practicing Catholic, occasionally here and

there.

I used to go to church and unfortunately now it's funerals and weddings and, you know,

I've lost my dad and my sister in the last nine months.

So you know, that's, it's all part of that road and that journey that we have.

And, you know, it's, but it is so important to people, I've, I've seen the change in

Kurt since he's, like he said, re-enlisted kind of found that faith again, you know, he,

we've been through so much together and to see how important that is and I'm sure hearing

what Savannah had to say, knowing what her mom, her, her background and her, her religion

here in Tucson, how important that is to their family and that's something that they're

going to grasp onto for the rest of all of their lives, for, for forever.

It's, it's, you know, it's important for people to have something like that.

Even if you don't get the answers that you want, you'll never get the answer to why.

Sometimes the answer to why people are horrible.

Sometimes as a species are a horrible species.

It's unfortunate, but it's the truth and that subset is incredibly low, but, you know,

unfortunately, we have to see that day in and day out and that's why that faith, whatever

it is, is important, you know, kind of stop there.

Yeah, and that's, I love that answer and it's a big part of why I actually wanted to write

the book that I did, surviving survivor, because that's one of the questions I asked my

mom the book and her response didn't surprise me.

I asked my mother why, why the Holocaust happened?

Why did, you know, all these people die, not just Jewish people.

You had plenty of other gypsies, gay people, people that's helped hide the Jews, which,

they helped my mom.

My mother's answer was, what the hell do I know?

That was her answer.

So I wrote that whole book and that was a, Carm likes to blow like the important moments,

asking, you know, what do I know?

So everyone figures it out at their own pace, at their own time, but I do like the phrase

re-enlisted.

So here, I got to move it along a little bit, because you've got Michigan playing Yukon

and you've got, it looks like the whole panel breeding for Michigan, except maybe me,

but maybe I'll rip from one of my best friends is from Ann Arbor.

I don't know what's going on, but, so we found out last week through some great reporting

as per use by Brian Enten that apparently the first five hours of this case, they were

looking for a person who they thought wandered off and then we learned that the person arriving

on scene had never been a lead detective in a homicide.

A lot of questions about that.

This is Brian Enten now speaking to someone who has not yet been identified within law

enforcement, talking about this and wanting his voice altered.

So you're going to have to look at the subtitles here.

Let's watch this together and then we'll get reaction from the Pima guys and the Vegas

guys as well.

Let's say are the biggest mistakes when it comes to the Nancy Guthrie investigation

from what you know.

Speaking with some people that actually know the incident knowledge of this investigation

told me that there was immediate rush to judgments on what was happening and that's

seen and it was that Nancy had somehow wandered off and so they rushed to that judgment

stayed with that judgment and then ran the investigation as if this was a search

and rescue mission opposed to a possible correlation.

From what you know, were the initial people who responded inexperienced?

From what I understand, the people that were there on the scene were not tenure homicide

conductives.

They didn't have a lot of experience in homicide at that point to include the supervisor

who for my understanding never investigated homicide before being installed as the supervisor

for the homicide unit.

I'm going to hold it there because there's a lot that's going to come out here.

Phil Ramos, let me go to you first who's already shaken his head.

We learned from this person who's remaining anonymous that there was an immediate rush

to judgment.

We thought that it was a situation where Nancy wandered off and I think that was for at

least the first five hours of this investigation calling it a search and rescue and not criminal

and then add on to that that this was not a tenured.

This is not to say this person never investigated a homicide but there were never a lead detective

in a homicide.

We're not a tenured homicide detective and then both Bob and Kurt have talked about the

issues with kind of rookies teaching rookies.

Let's start with the first thing.

How problematic is it if this is not a wandering off situation to treat it like such for the

first five hours of an investigation?

We've talked about this a little bit.

There's two disciplines that come into play when missing persons detectives arrive at

a scene versus homicide detectives arrive at a scene.

One person's guys are looking for evidence of a person who's either voluntarily missing

has decided I don't want to live here anymore and I'm gone elderly patients with their mental

issues that some of them have like in this case it was suspected that way.

Versus homicide where you go into a scene and you're looking for blood spatter and signs

of the degree of violence involved in the death.

Many times the responding missing person guys will miss the signs of a homicide, a murder

and I've had that happen in a few cases.

When this came out and they're acting on the information that was given to them by

the people calling in and reporting what the incident was.

If they go out there thinking well she's walked away she's elderly and there might be some

dementia issues then they're going to focus their efforts based on that information versus

well you know here's blood and people heard screaming and a car took off screeching

its tires and she would never do this.

So the lack of experience it seems that was involved in this is not a good thing man

because if you don't know what you're looking for and either set a circumstances and

you're going to miss stuff.

I heard that what you were referring to that the one of the first responding investigators

there had never responded to a homicide or never investigated a homicide that's a critical

man.

If you don't know what to look for right away when you walk through that door in a murder

scene you're going to mess up the case and it sounds it's possible that that's what

happened here.

And Phil how long do you need to if you're taking someone under your wing as a homicide

detective how long does it take to marinate so to speak like how do you know when that

person is ready to go it alone.

It's a lot like field training when you get a brand new rookie out of the academy here

we have a six month training period where they've got a field training officer with them

and you do the evaluations and you check them off on officer safety issues how they contact

themselves with the public and stuff like that in homicide all that stuff is just got to

be second nature.

I wasn't comfortable testing for homicide until I had 20 years on the department 12 of

those years were as an investigate working undercover and stuff like that so nowadays

that's not even doable anymore.

Most of guys don't even last 20 years before they go into homicide there's no substitute

for experience in homicide and if you get a new guy you just have to take him under your

wing try and give him all the tools that you can see what he does with those tools without

compromising your own case that you're that you're working and then you know the day will

come when yeah you're you're ready to take the take the lead on this scene and I'll do

the witnesses you got the scene and we'll go from there.

Now what a different type of job then where you can I mean literally lives here in your

hand.

Phil here's a question or get to Pima guys here but from ice a goal do you think Savannah

returning to her routine may provide insight if she were the intended target offenders

might reengage follow-up behavior if nothing occurs it means that it was an opportunistic

rather than targeted case here or occurrence do you agree with that that maybe this shows

us something or not necessarily.

It could I don't think that the letters from TMZ today when she first went back to

work were coincidence I think that was exactly where those letters came out.

If you know if we're going to go with that with the with the planned route of a high profile

victim then that that might show it's ugly ugly face again but I you know I'm one of

this one of those people that think it's got nothing to do with Savannah or what she did

and so I don't think that there's going to be any consequences of her going back on

the air when in reference to any any associated activity that could be tied to what happened

with her mom.

From Ealy or Ellie condolences Steve going if you're just tuning in you lost his father

last night suddenly we celebrate your dad's life very kind thank you.

Kurt since you're the retired homicide detective and then I'll play out the rest of this what

is five hours in your opinion on where you're searching for someone you think wandered

off if in fact this was a homicide or a kidnapping and abduction well I think first of all

it just pisses me off each day that goes by and each day that I hear you know the inexperience

of these detectives and deputies and yeah they're a hundred percent right these guys were

inexperienced homicide investigators the sergeant of the homicide unit who I know is

a good detective worked child crimes for many years never worked homicide he's the homicide

sergeant when our homicide sergeant would leave they be on vacation or what have you

invariably another sergeant or sometimes even a lieutenant will step in for a homicide

sergeant if we got a call Bob had stepped in as a night detective sergeant for a homicide

call and I remember talking to him asking him well not you because you know but there were

a couple other individuals most of the individuals that would step in that position had zero idea

how to run a homicide so when you're looking to them for information and they're telling

you you're in charge I'm responsible right I don't know shit about homicide you do your

work you tell me what you're going to do and with this case you have a zero experience homicide

sergeant you have I don't know how many how many were in the unit when you left Bob was at

four was it back up to six I think probably four or three he was five actually yeah so in that

ballpark anywhere between three and five but they're only investigating three to four

homicides a year that's not you're not getting experience and some of the detectives that are

in a homicide didn't even want to be in a homicide if you're going to do a homicide you got to have

a calling to do it filled in do it until 20 years as a cop like that is mind boggling to me and by

the way fill is the guy that I wanted to be I wanted to be that old grizzled homicide detective

and unfortunately I got to be the grizzled homicide detective not old how long were you in before

you went over to homicide I went in a homicide in 2009 so I was on eight years okay and I worked

violent crimes I worked street detective playing clothes and school resource officer on patrol but

just getting back to it it it was a shit show from the beginning at the sheriff's apartment the

missing person detective is a homicide detective it's one unit I was the missing person detective

for all seven years that I was an homicide I loved it you just they just don't have the experience

and they don't want to be there so there's no passion for the job of a homicide detective I guess

is what I'm saying at the sheriff's department and he could have look sheriff manos could have

deputized a ton of retired homicide detectives to come work this case he could have took and

reassigned homicide detectives former homicide detectives that are in different positions within

the agency to work this case at the beginning and the facts are he did not do it he was running the

case and a number of his chiefs and a couple of the captains though they were running the investigation

because there's zero experience in the homicide unit and you know who has experience as a homicide

detective one of those individuals that was running the investigation Juan Carlos Navarro he has

invest he has experience as a homicide detective but he should not be running the cases a captain

that's a sergeant's job to manage the case it's a detective's job to run it again the detective is

in charge the people above they're just responsible no I think that's really important and you're

getting some inside scoop here is is Juan Carlos still in the department yeah he's a captain

he's still a captain okay yeah he's had his fingers in this I I can see it I've heard yeah we

we still have contact with the agency so yes it's just it's nonsense but again it's not

insurmountable it's it's not stuff that can't be overcome in court it truly can but

it's going to be incumbent upon those brand new baby detectives to dot their eyes and cross

her teeth and make them sure that they took good notes so they're able to chronologically explain

what they did why they did it and when what was it Bob would you do when you why'd you do what

you did when you did it right they gotta explain thank you to G and TJ's mom and here to

Marsha or Marcia Rodriguez thank you very much for that super check you dog all right here by the

way Fred and Ethel got groomed today and it wasn't five minutes after that that Fred who never

goes into pool decide to be a good idea of the pool so now he smells like a wet pool dog again

all right money well spent here we go this is the rest of this interview this is Brian

Enten news nation legend interviewing someone we don't know who's either current or former

law enforcement here the supervisor who first responded to Nancy got three's house had never

investigated homicide how is that possible first you have decisions made by people that

you stole friends and people that can do stuff for them post people that are there on their merit

and can do the job correctly do you think not enough evidence was collected the fact that

detectives had returned to that location not once but several times please made a believe that

they should have handled it differently they should have kept us in secure do you get the sense

right now that there's anyone that they're seriously looking at the people I've talked to

that are still in the known this investigation tell me there's no direct suspect right now no name

honestly is that shocking that was how the investigation's done so far um I mean you have

individuals that are in their lucky cell or more cunning than a lot of people seen in the past

if you take the first extremely lucky maybe it's like a run out but so far it hasn't but if you

take the second one that is extremely cunning there's a chance that he may have covered his tracks so

well then we need not find out what happened right now I'm gonna hold it right there I get the

Bob and then we'll play out the last little bit um so Bob you heard this person say that uh whoever's

you know the person in charge was installing friends instead of uh necessarily installing the

right people meaning as either detectives or people in positions of power uh within the department

that this person feels that they could have kept us uh seen secure and right now there's no

direct suspect no name and this person is either really lucky or incredibly cunning uh your thoughts

on this aspect of the interview um I agree with everything that they said um we've been saying that

for a few weeks now you know without knowing the exact details of what happened behind the scenes

um and I also agree that you know initially when the video the video came out I remember saying

is this this person it has no idea what they're doing you know and as it's evolved I'm like well

there there might be uh I might have to backtrack that because it is one of those two things I think

it's a mix um but the interview says it all things things that we said in the unfortunate side it

goes back to you know that that things that we have spoused in our issue we people just want to work

for good people merit matters your your experience matters um and and it unfortunately the higher profile

assignments uh the better assignments they are they are not usually typically merit-based I will

say this the sheriff he is uh he's afraid of experts he really is um if you've been an assignment

he says if you've been there for two years you should move we will he wants a lot of people who

average at something then uh a handful of people who are excellent at something and I'm sorry if

a family member of mine is a victim of a homicide I want the best I don't want someone who's

and they're okay I don't want a SWAT team member rescuing me if they haven't been on hundreds of

missions and that is that is a decision that he has to live with and he has said that for his entire

career um and that's on him so for that aspect this entire investigation is on him because he wants

it this way and he can't say he doesn't he has said that for decades um uh any middle age guy

can be a SWAT guy anyone anyone he thinks that anyone could be a homicide detective anyone could be

a homicide supervisor no you can't I was on call with SWAT for 20 years you don't do that unless

you want to do that that is long drawn out nights things like that curtain oh is it still knows that

if you don't have that passion you're gonna be like and whatever I'll get there when I get there

when you should be spring to get your clothes on and getting in your car and get into these scenes

it all that matters and for that this is all on Sheriff Daniels for that matter um he has chosen

that's the way he wants his agency run he wants 350 average cops as opposed to

350 excellent cops who are awesome at their jobs I want to do it and that's that's 100% on him

I have a very weird brain because the entire time you're talking there Bob I was having an

alternate conversation in my head wondering like what would you do if a nurse walks in you're

getting a colonoscopy and she's like meet Dr. Sonso this is his first ever colonoscopy uh drop your

drawers like you wouldn't you know and this you know that you can't really it's not it's not uh

an even accounting there but in a lot of ways these you know homicides I mean they literally

are dealing in life and death matters justice issues and it's it's crazy that this guy is thinking

the way he's thinking uh with people's lives uh in the crosshairs it's just nuts but um there's a

follow-up super chat here uh do you think he's going to be replaced soon this is about Chris Nanos

any thoughts on who uh so I'll throw that to you Bob uh I do know that the entire agency wants him

replaced I do know that the entire community wants him replaced and when I say entire I can't speak

for 100 but you've heard the numbers um I think at this point the entire nation wants him replaced

there are so many things that have come to light that we've all known for years and now it's just

this is brought it to light um the unfortunate part is he's an elected official so short of him

uh resigning or he can retire and in right off into the sunset his legacy is set there's

nothing that is going to change his legacy now uh daily something new comes out like hey

today I carried my gun through TSA hey I oh I lied on a deposition hey I did this I did that

you can't make the shit up um it's the gift that keeps on giving but it's unfortunate for

the folks who still work there because they still have to deal with it the person that interview

is so scared that he's going to be found out or she's going to be found out that they have to black

out the face and and change the voice but the agency the folks now are starting to speak up

because it it's just gotten to the point of ridiculousness and and something has to give um there

is a active recall going for him that that runs through July that uh if if uh they can get uh

enough signatures there could be a recall election there's a couple other things on the board with

the Pima County Board of Supervisors where he has to answer certain questions and there's some

statutory requirements so all that being said who who who knows if there's going to be a change

if he doesn't want to change oh I forgot to say that uh last week he was also uh him and

forth his hand pick commanders were found have violated the uh uh Pima County uh ethics policy

and they've used their position to uh influence a political outcome over the last election so that

just came out last week so again that was these are all the things that they keep doing he keeps

doing that's who he wants with him at the top of our agency or their agency um and they are lying

for him they are backing his play and and I haven't said this but I've thought about so much

those commanders they have to look themselves in the mirror they have to be the ones to decide at

what point enough is enough you got your job you got your paycheck whatever is you wanted to do

but at some point right is right and wrong is wrong and in law enforcement we've chosen to

to put our lives on a line for the difference between right and wrong and so all of that being said

I think no I stand um and and so we'll see how it plays out you know what Bob you know what you

know what it's they they need to stand they need to stand up Chief Gerard Metz or Gerard Morets

need to stand up Chief Joe Cameron needs to stand up Chief Scott Loing needs to stand up Chief

Hayes who slope has needs to stand up captain Juan Carlos Navarro needs to stand up captain

I could go on and on and on those are all public names that are on the sheriff's apartment website

those are the command staff fire off emails people tell them now is the time to stand up because it's

it's just ridiculous and Bob it's not their department it is our department you know Rick

Cassigar asked me why are you so pissed off that Chris what did he do to you I said it's not what

he did to me man it's what he did to the place I loved to my agency our agency really well said

I'm gonna clip that and I want people to share that uh Kirk gets probably worried but I'm like I'm

gonna clip that but that was uh impassioned and um yeah if you're a commanding officer and you

know that the entire department is against the guy leading the charge speak up say something

you're a commander you're in charge do something uh I agree 100% um I don't know how this got up

here but uh this is not good let me bring up this is a very end now of uh Bryant Bryant and

interview you're hiding your identity right now because you could get in a lot of trouble for

for speaking out this way what would you want to say to the sheriff if if you could

I would say that he wrote a great department um if they were if he steps aside

and I would ask him to step aside how would you describe morale at the sheriff's office right now

I would say right now some extremely low um this is the lowest I've seen there's a lot of

embarrassment um especially with the news um kind of um conversations that add with menis

interaction with the media when the press conferences started happening in the interviews with

Nannos what were you thinking uh sugar melts stop talking that's pretty much what you're all

saying is why is the other saying that uh Phil Ramos and obviously the Pima guys can weigh in uh

very impassioned uh plea by Kurt dab and good on him for speaking you know even though he's

retired uh look i can still take shots from people in the department especially the commanding

officers i'm sure they're not going to be too pleased to hear that but sometimes it takes

a man or a woman to stand up uh you can tell uh how serious Kurt and Bob are about what has happened

to our department as they say because it is the people of Pima county just curious to get your

reaction also uh no suspect no you know they apparently started this the wrong way

didn't have a legit person uh investigating to begin with just your your thoughts on uh

Kurt and Bob's reaction to all of this you say this and i've said it before um between

SWAT and homicide you're not going to find any more dedicated loyal officers to the job

um 90 percent of SWAT callouts are end up in a shoot don't shoot situation

homicide you're you're trying to bring some closure to the worst thing that could happen to a

family our dedication doesn't have any limits to hear these two guys have such

heard it hurt experiences and and their mindset being what it is right now

it my heart goes out to them and and i'm sure they're not the only ones that feel that way

um there's nothing worse nothing worse than um going to work knowing that you're uh you're

you're going to be the clean up hitter and if you don't have somebody that's going to back you

you're not going to swing as hard and and that's going to hurt the investigation in the long run

with all the dedication though those two sections have that's going to suffer when when you have

the circumstances that these guys have had and uh brothers my my heart goes out to you guys man

i'm so sorry uh Kurt you want to jump in there thanks Phil yeah and i and i hope the word does

get out and man i just pray that those people in that position of power look man there's power

in numbers guys stand together make a statement you're ruining an agency you're corrupting an

investigation with well i don't want to say corrupting i don't want to get sued but look man it's

it's just a disgrace it's a very poorly handled investigation from the get co

and man of savannah here's this savannah i'm so sorry that you're having to go through this and

deal with what's going on at the Pima County Sheriff's Department uh once very highly thought of

and loved agency and you have my heartfelt apologies on behalf of them

and Kurt is there something else that we can do uh with surviving the survivor i mean we're

you know we're we're we're not tiny we're not big big but we're somewhere in the middle and we've

got a platform is there anything we can do to help look i don't know guys i mean

Bob what do you i mean it's strengthen numbers man if every commander there

came out and you know spoke up about the things that have been going on

but they're not going to because they know and they're trying to protect their job they're

trying to protect their pensions which is a bunch of bullshit stand up for what's right

Bob i'll give you uh the final word here uh usually goes to godfather but a man who

dodge bullets for 20 plus years uh can get the last word on my show by the way i saw in the chat

is there some sort of meeting tomorrow uh bob is there a board of supervisors meeting tomorrow

yeah it's it's the board of supervisors and like i said they're they're they're following up

on a statute that uh it's it's the very limited power that they have with another elected official

where he will have to answer certain questions and i know they're formulating those questions now

about the not even necessarily the investigation the flaws there but a lot of the other things that

i've brought up the lying under oath the lying on his background the state suspensions and five or

six years and it'll pass so that he you know clarically error forgot about when he applied things

like that that have come out over the last uh a couple of months because of this investigation

so he's going to have to swear under oath to them so that that process i believe will start tomorrow

and then it'll have to get back to them whether it be in writing and or in person um and it's

unfortunate because i don't know the strength of what again they can do to him individually

now they have the power of the budget and things like that um so who knows how this plays out

but um i can also tell you this i listed off all those folks who are not happy with the the sheriff

the board of supervisors is also not happy with the sheriff um so yes that that long way of saying

yes that that meeting is tomorrow at nine a.m. it's streamed if you google pima county board of

supervisors um sometimes they're quite long but uh there's some good information that should

be coming out tomorrow as well and in bob is there anything that we can do seriously like as

a show is there something that we can do that i i don't know you know the biggest thing right now

um is making him responsible and that's one thing he is he is uh stayed away from he's he'll

he'll always say oh this is my fault well if it's your fault take responsibility sometimes

that responsibility is very difficult and law enforcement you have to step away if someone says

you should not be doing this job anymore it the blame cannot always be cast to the former sheriff

to the two or three disgruntled people in the agency who are always against you this this is now

different um have the professional integrity to to stand up and say you know what it's time

right off into the sunset what what y'all can do is keep keep the um i gotta keep the information

out there keep the pressure on um if anyone's watching here and you're in pima county and

your register voter go sign the recall um it's it's bipartisan i i'm a democrat i i've signed it i

will help i will answer anybody's questions um i don't think uh i saw it in the chat

policing should not be politicized it should not be political and you get into it he was

he was elected simply because of the letter next to his name and i'm not gonna i'm not gonna

blame the citizens because that's how most elections are are are solved and and finalize that's

the nature of it um but you know if if mistakes have been made let's fix those and y'all keep the

pressure on that's what we can do all right uh we're gonna we are gonna do that a quick programming

note Amy Hilliard has been missing into week two now uh her husband spoke out she's a coffee shop

owner uh lives in Oakland as a coffee shop in San Francisco uh is a big kind of philanthropist in

her community uh we're looking to do a show on that tomorrow night i've got the geo profiler coming

in for that uh obviously it is very difficult without uh Steve Cohen uh there's like i've said

this before hundreds of people that do put a show like this together at the CNNs of the world

MSNOWs fox news is of the world but uh we're four uh three now and uh i think in a

Steve tonight uh love your brother and uh he'll he'll get through this uh because we are a family

here at STS on the way out you don't mind hit that like and subscribe button

love you america love you Tucson love you bagus bring Nancy home there she is bring her home

and i'll say go blue and go huskies made the best team win game time is like 19 minutes i got to

let these guys go but i'll let go go we'll see y'all we'll see y'all on the flip side

you