**NO VERDICT** Killer Mom Trial: Judge Officially Declares MISTRIAL

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a bookshelf and you're a for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and pop culture. With your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of over thought opinions.

1:02Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to pro society on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. We're with right wing ties that purchase hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is our town. A podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment

2:04and fights back. I guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to our town on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast. Here's what you missed. It's a simple wake up and go, oh, damn, wait a minute, hold up. They changed all of that? Yes. It's real. This is a wholesale attack. It is targeting black people in every federal agency. It's wrong. White folks have never allowed that reckoning to last more than a decade. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, that folks, it is Friday, September 4th. It is officially a Miss Trial. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ, the Lindsey Clancy, Triple Murder Trial. Inns in six weeks, 40 hours of deliberations, no decision and a Miss Trial.

3:06Robes, it's hard to just ask your reaction to what's happened because so much happened. But let me just get the initial. We've been watching this thing every single step of the way for six weeks, just what your reaction is knowing there is no decision. I feel exhausted emotionally and disappointed in how everything occurred. And I just, I feel frustrated for everyone. I feel frustrated for people who felt passionately about guilt or innocence. I feel awful for everyone who put in so much work, the attorneys, the judge, even the defendant, Lindsey Clancy, the people who were supporting her, the people who testified all the work and energy and effort. And yeah, I feel terrible for the jurors. And no result. No result. Folks, it's if we sound it, it's been a hell of a week. We can't imagine what has been like for them.

4:09But what has happened today was not just a matter of them coming back and saying, we can't make a decision. Robes, this was drama on top of drama, on top of drama today, even to get to a Miss Trial. So if you had been keeping up today, earlier, the jury came back with a note and Robes started with what, what, what was the line? They said, heavy hearts, heavy hearts. We report that we cannot reach a unanimous decision and won't be able to do so. That was supposed to be the end of it. So the judge comes in, says, I don't feel like I have any other, what were the words? He said, I have no choice but to declare a mistribe. At this point, I have to declare a mistribe at this point. And at that point, they started sending the jury in. They started coming from the deliberation room. And before they could get their robes, Reddington got up and this is where a very fascinating several hours of a back and forth went on that held up a mistribe.

5:14That's right. We actually had to wait an additional three hours after the 40 hours of deliberations to end up at the same place that was being feared. Like that was the biggest fear. I think. He said, I'm going to declare a mistribe. And then we waited. I guess this is how our legal process works. It might not be efficient. It might be frustrating. It might take more time than most people were willing to accept. And yet we yes arrive at the same conclusion that we could have arrived at three hours ago. But look, there's something to be said that there was a little leniency given. So that they're all possible. They made sure. Appeals were at least attempted in the timeframe that was allowed. Look, we're up against Labor Day weekend. It's Friday afternoon. And for them to even have or find a Supreme Court justice willing to hear the arguments

6:19in a last minute, last ditch effort by the defense to put an emergency stay on this declaration the judge was about to make, I get it. And so yes, it was a lot. It was exhausting, emotionally exhausting for all the folks who have been through it over the past six weeks. Yes, and do explain here the what's been happening the past several hours was after the judge to set. He was going to declare mistrile. Reddington, the defense attorney, asked for a stay. He said he wanted to file an appeal with the highest court in Massachusetts. They're able to do that mid trial, but you can only make that appeal to one of those Supreme justices. So he said he wanted to do this. Judge Sullivan was kind of exasperated. He said, well, how long is it going to take? He said, I'll give you an hour. I think we all knew it was going to take longer than an hour. So the process started of trying to track down a Supreme Court justice in the state of

7:21Massachusetts within that hour. It took longer than the hour. What's the official help me with the timing, Rob? It was at what time did this happen that he said you have an hour. It was around 1130, I thought 1130. Yeah, and then it was a terrific. Well, 30 and then it went to a lunch. Correct. That's right. So at 1130, and then it, it, 1230 came, 1230 went. One o'clock came and it went. When lunch came, everybody said, well, I'm not going to get anything until two o'clock because the court's on lunch. And yes, we knew it was going to take a little longer and three hours. It took Rob's. This is just what a process. I don't know what the jury was told, what they were being told, what all this was going on. We wondered, are they being told that there was some sort of last minute appeal that was taking place and to hold tight, to not deliberate any further, but to just, I'm sure they were fine with that. But to hold tight and to wait and see, I don't know how much they were told about what was actually happening. I had that question.

8:21Well, I wanted, because they thought they were about to get out of there and then they ended up there another three hours. They thought they were done and ended up there another three hours. I don't know how much they would have had to tell them. So Robes now, what does happen now? This is a mistrial. Robes, the discussion has been having, they were having in court before they finally adjourned. They're going to retry this woman. Oh, they already have another court date on the book. Kevin Reddington wanted to retry this case as soon as next week. He wasn't kidding when he told reporters who had asked him if there was a mistrial. Would you be willing to retry this case? And if so, when? And he was like next week. And that's kind of exactly what he said in open court. He said a week from what's this we're talking on Friday. Monday. He said we're ready to rock. And the judge said, you know what, I'd rather do it sooner than later, but I'm not sure

9:22if it was that soon. Right. That was a little quick, but look by the end of this month, they are going to be back in court, which just seems overwhelming. And look, this is coming from somebody who's just been an observer. I cannot imagine being a participant and realizing that this is all about to happen again. There is a world, there is a world in which there is a plea deal of some kind worked out. I think it's in the interest of both sides not to do this again, but if you have, if you are as the state robes, believing that this woman is nothing short of a triple murderer of children, you can't go from believing that to just saying, okay, we'll put her in a mental hospital. Robes, they have to keep going after her, don't you? So you're saying that nothing short of manslaughter would make sense of prison prosecution

10:25with prison time. And I would argue we heard Kevin Reddington say this very bluntly yesterday. We kicked this shit out of their case. So he is of the belief. And I think justifiably so given where we believe the jurors were leaning and we look we have to hear officially from the jurors themselves, the 11 to one, what we're hearing, that there were 11 who thought one verdict was appropriate and then one who did not. Everyone is assuming that the 11 were going to vote not guilty, but we don't know that officially. Isn't that still kind of remarkable? That's kind of impressive that 11 got to that. Robes, that's kind of huge. And so that is only going to further bolster or make Kevin Reddington even more confident that given another set of jurors, he can win this case, he can get his client zero prison

11:25time. So I have, I don't believe for one second that he would accept anything less than no prison time. So so they are just as entrenched as the rest of the country then, they you cannot as the state go from this is a triple murderer of children to yeah, some probationary time is fine. You just can't or that means you didn't believe in your case the first place. That doesn't look good for the district attorney's office. Absolutely not. Why would you pursue charges? You only argument could be made that you have now seen in court how it all played out. You have seen how at least 11 jurors would have what the verdict would have been for them. And if it was against your recommendation of first degree murder, maybe you only try the next time with manslaughter, maybe that's your maybe you take first degree and second degree off the table. I don't know if they adjust in any way, shape or form, but don't they typically do aren't

12:29they allowed to do juror interviews to determine where those where their state of mind was and then they can actually kind of evaluate where they went wrong, what didn't work, what wasn't believable, where the evidence fell short and then maybe they make their determination about what charges to bring after they actually get to sit down and talk to the jury. I am so fascinated to know what happened in that jury room. And I think we'll find out. I do too. Somebody, you know what, it might even be tonight. It could be. Somebody's sitting on the set of some show somewhere telling their story. I wouldn't be surprised at all. Can you imagine if you were just one of those jurors who was so frustrated, who so clearly saw things one way and you only saw one person, one juror standing in the way of something that was very obvious to like maybe it was always 11 to 1. We don't know maybe it was 6 to 6 and some people were brought over but maybe it was always that significantly weighted in the direction of the defense.

13:31So I would imagine those folks would be fairly frustrated and would want to air it out, would want to talk about the process, would want to talk about what they were dealing with in that jury room. I feel pretty confident at least one of them is going to want to talk. I think we'll hear tonight. I think we'll hear from one of them tonight. I wouldn't be surprised. They're so exhausted. I know at this point, Roads, but we didn't get word on another request that actually Kevin Reddington was making from the judge. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

14:33Every week I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming they are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. Their story is about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Beniero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility.

15:37Every time I tried to be alone I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed.

16:37I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. So like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is the Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro's Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Our town is small taters by most standards, right? But to the people who grew up here, it's everything. What happens when a quiet Tennessee town becomes the front line in a battle over the future of America? Developers with right wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land in the area. The first thing you see when it pops up is high nears and apple etch. But they weren't just planning houses. We need cities on a shining hill that exemplify and embody the Christian way of life.

17:39Stop right there. Is that normal? A podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment. God need men to rule. And decides to fight back. Do not use my hard work to sell your bull. They're not just opposing what's being planned for here. Our hometown is not a test to. They feel like they're standing in opposition to an entire administration. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to our town on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complained about the very thing they were seeing. It's raw. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men.

18:43Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off. I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all go scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same bag. That's Roland Martin's daily commentary on the black information network. 12 seats. Those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 23. You better be hitting the ground going hard in the south now. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. And yes, we are all now. We have an outcome is not the outcome. I think that anybody wanted a verdict is always preferable. And this is really rare. So much about this case is singular. Only five to six percent of all criminal trials and in a hung jury.

19:45There's that. And of the five to six percent, have we ever seen anything like this where we have an appeal like the judge was almost in mid sentence. In my mind, he had the gavel in the air. And he was about to come down declaring a mistrial. And the defense attorney was able to stop the judge nearly almost mid sentence and appeal to the Massachusetts Supreme Court. He found a justice on the Friday before Labor Day to hear his case. And you know, they argued that there was some bias against folks who have mental illness. Like they were throwing out all the stops saying that Lindsey Clancy was denied her constitutional rights. They tried every legal maneuver you could think of. Nothing worked. Nothing works. It took this judge. You know what? We were watching this. And by the time it ended to the time that was within half hour, wasn't it? Yes. And so, Alas, yes, we are officially in a mistrial, but there are still some questions

20:49that need to be answered. And among them, we need to know. And I didn't realize this, but at the jury unanimously, as a group of 12, ruled out first degree murder. Say they ruled out second degree murder. Maybe the whole doubt juror wanted manslaughter. Maybe the rest of the jurors wanted not guilty by reason of insanity. And if that is the case, technically, they could put into place double, double jeopardy rules where they're saying you had a jury of 12 unanimously agreed that she was not guilty of second degree murder. We don't know if there was a charge that all of the jurors agreed didn't apply. And if that is determined to be the case, it's my understanding that she then can't be charged with it again or tried with that again. With that in open court, though? Because they didn't. So I don't know if it was a matter that was taken up or not. This is the most bizarre into a case I have ever seen, robes.

21:50And I think the district attorney is about to make a statement here in just a second. I'm curious to what he's about to say. I guess they're going to tell us that whether or not they are going to robes, try this lady again because the way this goes, they have to do something because the charges either need to remain or they need to be dropped. So they have to make a declaration of what they're going to do with her. Yes. Otherwise, she would be a free woman. Absolutely. The judge has set a hearing. We know this for September 29th. And that is where Kevin Reddington is expected to ask the judge to declare Lindsey Clancy not guilty. He's still trying to avoid another trial. And I guess there is some legal maneuvering in which that could take place. We've seen Kevin Reddington try a bunch of Hail Mary's. I guess you could put it like that. Legal Hail Mary's here towards the end. Have any work going on?

22:51Trying to avoid the outcome that we've actually seen taken place today. And this was all in an attempt to get a verdict. But the jury was dismissed. So this jury will no longer be a part of this case. And we are now, as we're recording this, by the way, the district attorney is giving a press conference right outside of the court. No decisions made about a retrial. I've got to be meeting with this team on reading this as we are talking here. So please read as well. So you can catch the stuff I'm missing. But the DA has just come out and said, no decisions have been made about whether or not there will be a retrial of Lindsey Clancy. She says going to be meeting with this team, meeting with this lawyers and the decision will be made then. But at this point, Robes, wow, they're thinking the jury. They're thinking the jury for their service and their commitment. But look, that is significant. The fact that a lot of times you would see the DA come out and say, we are retrying this case.

23:52We are going to see this through to the end. We've absolutely seen those moments. This is, I would say fairly unusual, they're not being bullish about this. They are saying we need, we need a sec. We need a moment. We need to take a beat. We need to probably reevaluate our case. Maybe talk to the jurors and figure out if this case is worth retrying. Obviously they have the option of trying to negotiate with the defense coming up with some sort of plea deal that everyone can be okay with. But look, this is going to be a tall task. This is a huge undertaking for them to retry this case. It's tax-payer dollars at stake and the district attorney is well aware of that. Can you get a conviction? Okay. You're going to go through this if you don't think you can get a conviction. He's talking about the, he's still broke. He's talking like a man who wants to retry because he's talking about getting justice for the victim. So it's three little ones, right? So I don't know how they make this balance and maybe he's not ready right now.

24:55But how can you, what is just, if you fought this hard, hard to bring somebody to justice? How could you take anything less, baby? Yeah. I mean, they say he just reiterated our job is to seek justice for those three babies who were murdered. And they're acknowledging there are strong feelings. They are acknowledging there are differing opinions. It's interesting. After everything, we watched in this trial for six weeks and then these long deliberations. I thought it was a note. All of the reporters in that room when the mistrial was declared, they described the scene as no emotion. They said neither the jury nor the Clancy family nor Lindsey Clancy herself showed any emotion as the judge announced the mistrial. It's almost as if they knew this was coming. And it was, everyone felt defeated. Like no one felt like this was a win in any way, shape or form.

25:55I'm surprised, Rob. He's carrying the same torch that his prosecutors were. He said this is not about women's health. It's not about our health care system. This is not about anything other than the cruel and calculated killings of three innocent by Lindsey Clancy. How can you not prosecutor then? How can you not try her again, Robes? If he's sticking, he's coming out and restating their case. This is not about mental health and women. This is about one woman who did this. And so if you take him at his word right now, even though he says they're going to take some time to assess whether or not to bring charges again, it does sound like he is right now leaning towards continuing on and pursuing a second trial. And that is all going to be needed out on September 29th. They have some time. They have a couple of weeks to get their ducks in a row and really take a look at the evidence, really take a look at the reaction by the jury and certainly maybe even take the temperature

26:58of people in Massachusetts. What do they want? How are they feeling? Well, that's funny. You just said that. He said we're not making a decision based on the sentiments of the public. That's funny. That is funny. I was thinking maybe he would. This is an elected office. So yes, it does matter what people think about the job you've done, the cases you've chosen to pursue and how you've chosen to litigate that. This is something a question we had. He just pointed out in his statement that the two prosecutors, the ladies, are mothers themselves. He decided to point that out. And I wondered if they were. I wondered if they were and they are standing next to him, stone faced. And look, I don't know. This isn't a win for anybody. And it is hard to even argue in a case like this that anybody would win. And I think Kevin Reddington pointed that out the other day by saying there are no winners. This is a tragedy, period. No question about it. But at issue, who is to blame? Does the medical, do the medical folks who were supposed to take care of Lindsay, do they

27:58bear culpability? Is it all on Lindsay? Who is to blame for the deaths of these three young children beyond Lindsay Clancy? Or is it just her? And that is the question that it looks like we will have another jury set to decide here sooner rather than later. So we will continue to keep our eye. Any new developments, of course, we'll hop on and let you know. Thanks for sticking with us throughout all of this. We appreciate you. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes. We'll talk soon. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility.

29:01Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and pop culture. With your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of over thought opinions.

30:04Yeah, I'm obsessed, I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. Developers with right wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is our town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. I guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to our town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. People wake up and go, oh, damn, wait and hold up. They change all of that? Yes. It's real. This is a wholesale attack. It is targeting black people in every federal agency. It's wrong. WIFO have never allowed that reckoning to last more than a decade.

31:06That's Roland Martin's daily commentary on the black information network. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast. Or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.