Profit Isn't a Dirty Word (But It Can't Be the Only Word) with Tara Milburn of Ethical Swag

a lot of people want those big contracts right and what I my my foundation was I want to make

sustainable swag accessible to those that want it. Welcome to this mother means business.

The podcast where ambition meets motherhood and success has no limits. I'm your host,

Laura St. Clair, and if you're a mom who's passionate about building your own business,

you're in the right place. Whether you're launching your first startup from your kitchen table,

scaling your side hustle during nap time or growing your established business while juggling

family life, this show celebrates the incredible women who refuse to choose between being an

amazing mother and a fierce entrepreneur. Each week we're diving into real stories,

practical strategies, and yes, a little tough luck when you need it most. I'm here to push you

past the excuses and give you permission to build your business and live your life exactly on

your terms because here's what I know for sure. When a mother means business, extraordinary things

so let's dive in and get down to it. Welcome back to another episode of this mother means

business. Today on the show I am joined by Tara Milburn. She is the founder and CEO of Ethical Swag,

which is a certified B-Corp that helps brands connect with people through meaningful,

sustainable merchandise. This is the second time I've had a chance to talk with Tara. I'm so

excited to see where we're going to net out because Tara is I feel like Tara you're a trailblazer

in a lot of ways and you're probably going to be like no I'm not but the first time that you and

I chatted I was just so taken by how values driven you are in the way that you've moved in your

career and I know that our listeners are going to learn so much from you Tara. I want to welcome you

officially to this mother means business. Thank you. It's my pleasure to be here. I'm looking forward

to having a chat. Me too and I feel like you and I are going to have a hard time staying within

the constraints of a 30 minute show because you and I even before we were recording I was like okay

Tara we must hit record so that we can actually share this with the people but I have had the

chance to meet you and learn about you but our listeners might be meeting you for the first time.

Are you open to giving us a little brief rundown of who you are? Sure. How far back do you want me

to go? I mean why don't we start? We can start wherever we like wherever feels good today.

Oh yeah no so Luma am I what am I? I guess I'll start with because you've introduced me as the

dependency of ethical swag. I did not wake up one day saying I want to put logos on pens.

So just like it was not like a lifelong dream. It's kind of how I ended up here which I think

is kind of an interesting story because I have had so many different experiences professionally

over the years and I will say that you know I'm pushing 35 years now longer. I'm kind of I'm on

the other side of 35 years career. So I've been around seen a lot long before we had internet

long before we had cell phones so I've really kind of watched a lot and experienced a lot in

the corporate world and through all of that I have three kids and have been married for 35 years

a summer. So there's just a lot in there that I've sort of drawn on over the years. Some good,

some bad, some awesome, some ugly but yeah but I didn't I didn't wake up one day saying I'm going

to start a company called Ethical Swag. That just kind of happened as a vehicle.

Ethical swag is a vehicle for me to demonstrate how we can show up in our work and how we can show

up in our organizations and what we need I think to be thinking about as we create our businesses

because I've seen and experienced a lot of broken things and I've seen and experienced a lot of

great things and I wanted to sort of package those all up into something. Okay well don't tell me

with a good time Tara because we're going to have to go into how we got there and how we ended up

I mean putting logos on pens as an act of resistance in some ways right an act of change. So

give me a little bit of a background as far as you know obviously I know about your career but I'd

love like the snapshot you mentioned a lot of a lot of things your curve you could give us sort of

like the last you know few years I kind of dictated through into like making this pivot what was that

like yeah and you know what I'm gonna go further back than just the last few years because it really

kind of did start right from the get go right so when I graduated from university it was 1990 and

I had all I had actually gone to university as a mature student so I was already older graduating

in 1990 I'm not going to give my age but like do a bit of math there and so when I started my

career we moved out to Vancouver and I graduated in business and I got a job which you know hindsight

being 2020 was so lucky I was hired by the owner of the Vancouver Canucks and he had a vision to build

the first privately funded arena for the team so that wasn't not a thing back then title sponsorship

was not a thing back then you know owners owning arenas was not a thing back then and so he had this

vision he's like I need a little more control over where I make my money because you know he was

looking at his sort of business model and that sort of thing and I got hired when he had the idea

he had no land he had no money he had an idea and so hindsight being 2020 I would I realized that

really informed me that we can have ideas and vision and turn them into reality on a small square

or a big scale and I happen to be on a fairly large scale very young and for context the owner

of the Canucks was early 30s so we're not talking like old rich guy which went like when I think

about an owner of a professional hockey team that's what I kind of think of at the time I was

in my 20s like sort of late 20s he was in his early 30s and the the age of the team was sort of

mid 20s to mid 30s now think about that we spent over 360 million dollars in three years

we found it and spent it and so in today's dollars that would be built you know nor hundreds of

millions billions and so it's kind of a cool sort of reference point and I look back and go wow

was I ever lucky to be a part of that because it really didn't inform me in terms of oh we can do

this we know what we were doing honestly Laura like he had a vision he's like let's go do this

and there was very few of us in the room that really had ever done this stuff before

and what a cool way to start your career and I think it really seeded something in me very early

yeah I mean I am a big believer in surrounding yourself with people that are going to have you

see bigger dream bigger and so many people spend too much of their time in circles with people

that have you know buried their own dreams or don't think that way and one of the things I find

with entrepreneurs a lot of the time when when certainly when they're starting they say like what do

I do if I don't have the support of you know my partner or the people in my circle they don't see

the dream but yeah what a gift to have been able to have been exposed to a big thinker and a big

risk-taker like that I'm sure it sort of helped you feel like well I could probably do anything

that if we could we can pull that off I can see that be done like there's very few things that I

can't I can't do one of the things that struck me when we first shouted was we were talking a

little bit about what happened in your career when you became a mom and can you walk us through

some of those changes that happened when you had your first child in your corporate career well

yeah so I had when I became a mom I had I joined the organization it was called the Vancouver

Conox and it morphed into something called organ-based sports entertainment that had

that included at the time an NBA franchise and I was involved with the bid for the NBA franchise

it was the arena it was the NHL franchise it was a pretty large and significant sports and entertainment

organization that had TV and retail and all kinds of things and when I had my first daughter I

resigned because I was like this was a super exciting really fun experience in my 20s and early

in my career but really was not conducive to having children because you're in the entertainment

industry you get into work at seven seven thirty in the morning and you're getting home at midnight

and it's not all work there's a lot of play in there right because you're going to events and you're

going to you know but it's not really good for family life so I resigned when I had my first

daughter and I got a call from the owner of the conaps and the then senior vice president

marketing for tours of Vancouver and they had literally just landed and they were calling

me from their cell phone saying we're going to go after the Olympics and you're you know we want

you to help us and I was like no no Arthur he was the name these the name of the owner at the time

I said no no I quit remember like I left that because I don't want more of that and so they said

come in and talk to us and so I went in and because I had done the bid for the NBA and because I

had been involved with the arena I had a unique skill set that they recognized would help with

this idea of going after the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver but I was very much like hard

line in the sand no I am now no mom I'm not going back to that I love that moment in time it was

awesome but can't do it now so they said what can you do and I thought about it and I said I

will come into the office three days a week but I need a full-time assistant if you hire me a

full-time assistant to do all the other things and I can help direct them then I can do this and so

they did so I was able to set my terms I was able to say this is what I'll do and this is what I

won't do and it was respected now this is back in 1998 so this is a while ago and um was able to

sort of set those parameters yeah that was what when you come in that story initially I was like

that is feels so rare to have been able to do that or at least had like the cajonist to do that like

I think about when I started my career in my corporate career in 2008 it was like you keep your

mouth shut you you know you you do what you're being told to do you don't ask for more and certainly

you know I was quite junior I was with the start of my career but the idea of somebody saying like

no a woman saying no I'm gonna I need this to look this way I just when you told me that story I

was just so floored because I don't you don't hear that very often you know back then it was

unique as well and I was a little outspoken and sometimes that got me into trouble I remember one

time my boss I was standing there was when I was in the sports entertainment days and my female boss

walked over to me and literally and I quote said why are you wearing pants because I was wearing a

very nice pantsuit but we were in the days of nylons and high heels and she said why are you

wearing pants and she said it in front of the president and I looked at her and was shocked

like why would you do that to me in front of him and like I was just legitimately shocked

and then I looked at him and I looked at her and I said what I asked him why he's wearing pants

probably a cocky thing to say at the time probably you know was but I was sort of like

back in the day these are the days where people said stuff like that and I was just always like

no that's not okay I just had my own sort of values about how you show up at work and I had

I guess enough confidence to just say I'm confident in the work that I'm going to do and if you

don't want me here for the work that I can do then go find somebody else yeah and obviously that

bit was successful because 2020 2010 Olympics did very much happen in Vancouver absolutely and

this is the pre-bid so this was the bid for us to represent Canada internationally and that's

a story that a lot of people don't really know it's like it's it's it's a really interesting story

Vancouver came to the game late and Calgary and Quebec City were vying for Canada's position

on the international stage and so interestingly enough the way the rotation of the Olympics go

because of TV rights and everything else it was North America's turn for 2010 and the US

had already stated they weren't putting a bid in so basically the 2010 Winter Olympics

internationally was Canada's to lose however Calgary and Quebec City were vying for Canada's position

and we came in late we sort of I remember writing the original press release to say Vancouver's

going to go after the 2010 Winter Olympic Games it was after the Nagano Olympics in 98 and the

decision was being made in November of 1998 Calgary Quebec City had been in it already for quite a

while and so we were last man to the table or last person to the table I should say and we were

the underdogs for sure because the value proposition and the the way that Quebec City and Calgary had

developed where their strengths were we looked definitely like the third the third out of three

because Quebec City was saying hey Canada we will give you training facilities on the East Coast

and Calgary was saying hey Canada why spend money on infrastructure structure we already have it

we can put all that money into programs and kids and youth and all very compelling Vancouver's

like well we're 12 hours down the highway from Calgary so why are we building facilities that

are going to replicate what we have 12 hours away not helping the East yeah right like we our

value prop is not that good but we did it and so that that actually was the harder bids in well

my humble opinion then the international one where we knew it was kind of Canada's lose and I had

long moved on by then I was part of that original one yeah you said so you said long moved on

where where where did we where did we move to after that oh my goodness uh so I actually found out

I was pregnant with my second while I was doing a bid for the 2010 Olympic Games okay and so my

son was born in 99 my daughter was born in 97 and then um my husband who was originally from

Cape Breton Island um I'm originally from Montreal and uh he said we've got two little kids and

we're missing our families we the Rally I I was having a lot I was still very happy in Vancouver um

but he really wanted the kids to know their families um their cousins and that sort of thing

growing up and I had shifted you know like my priorities have shifted I was like career career

career career now I've got these two little kids I'm still having really rewarding work and I was

able to set my sort of my you know what was important to me and I was able I was it I was hired

quite a bit to do work because of the experience that I had so I didn't have any problem there um but

I definitely had shifted my priorities with these two little kids and I said to him okay I'll move to

Cape Breton and that was a shock like I remember the I had a list of things like and and he's like why

don't you want to move I don't know if you want to move I'm like well there's no Starbucks there uh

was one of them uh there's no international airport there and he's like how often do you use

international airport I'm like well it's just the principle I've never lived anywhere where there's

no international airport and so I said there was no soccer team and now I'm in my mid 30s and I'm

still playing women's high level soccer soccer and and I said there's no soccer team woman's

soccer team and he's like really like you're gonna impact our family because there's no Starbucks

no internet and like what do you put it that way I was like oh okay and so we moved here and

there was still not a lot of things here like Amazon was kind of just getting started uh

like online shopping really wasn't much of a thing you know because we moved here in01 so

it was a big shock to my system I'm not gonna lie and is that when you started ethical swag?

nope I um I started working I just sort of hung my shingle I did a startup but there was a bit

of a disconnect between me and the other founder we just didn't align on values we aligned on

the potential of the business and everything else but we just didn't align value wise and so I walked

away um that company and I was a very very successful tens of millions of dollars annual sales um and

I have a great relationship with them and all that kind of stuff it's just I wasn't values aligned um

and so I walked away from that and I was just sort of doings my thing and somebody reached out to

me and asked me to do a contract with a crown corporation um which was the business development agency

for the province of Nova Scotia and so I did that contract and while I was on that contract they

wanted me to join them full time I said no for about five months and then they made it basically

impossible for me to continue to say no and so I worked for a provincial crown corporation

with the and I was director of foreign direct investment for Cape Breton Island for Jesus I think

about 11 or 12 years and it was and that was a perfect job honestly for me while I had my kids

but I was kind of dying on the vine because even I had a conversation earlier I have this sort of

urgency with getting things done and when you work with him um government and crown corporations

which is the reason why I didn't want to go there to begin with but the CEO at the time that I

joined was very entrepreneurial and I liked the way he was running it but as time went by it

beat morphed more into a bureaucratic government kind of run organization so I had made up my mind

that but I had a lot of family stuff going on and so my family was my priority I was sort of

constantly had my eyes and ears open for what's my next thing but I focused on my family and that

was my priority and then I had a little bit of an opportunity I had the idea for ethical swag and

I did it just to show my daughters that you can do stuff but I never planned on doing it because

I think swag is kind of like it's just not my thing and so I came up with the idea of ethical swag

and I threw up a website but I kept my corporate job and my golden handcuffs and I just let it sit

over there and it was about five or six years later when I realized that you know Yale University

the center for not for profit all these big organizations out of the US somehow we're finding this

Mickey Mouse website called ethical swag and buying from me and when I reached out to a couple

of people who I thought would be ideal customers for this idea called ethical swag because I

I'm going to be telling the honest I don't want to and never wanted to sell swag

I wanted to provide alternatives to companies that were already buying swag

there's a there's a there's a fine difference there I was like if you already are spending

the money and it's a very powerful marketing game like that's for sure but there was a

misalignment between what companies were saying we're valuable to them and what they were putting

their logo on and I was like oh I have a solution for that created the solution in ethical swag

reached out to a couple of people asked them thinking they'd be ideal candidates based on what was

in my mind I got a blank scare so I sort of turtleed because I was like I don't really want to sell

swag and if they don't want what I'm selling clearly I don't have a business idea here so that

happened for a little while and then when I was like no no I can't I can't keep doing this government

thing like there was change in leadership I was like this is just not for me anymore

when I actually did research and I literally phoned every single company that

bought from ethical swag while it was sitting over here off the to the side and

did research primary research and for the first time I actually did research into the industry

and so I did this whole body of research and I went oh my god was right but my business model

and what I'm trying to do is wrong and it only was uncovered with the research that I did

so my gut told me there was a business opportunity I didn't put in the hard work to figure out

how was I going to do that until a few years later and when I did that light bulb I'm like it

doesn't matter what I do it's how I do it is what's what matters and that's what I was all in

with ethical swag. Quick applause before we get back into today's episode if you're ready to

step out from behind your laptop and enter a room of women get it this mother means business

live is coming back for 2026 on April 1st 2026 we're taking over the pearl hotel and spa in

Burlington Ontario for a full day of strategy connection and inspiration think less conference

more movement in a room you'll hear from incredible speakers connect with ambitious entrepreneurial

moms we're actually walking the same bathroom you are and you're going to leave with community

with clarity and the actual skills and tools you need to move your business forward you can

join us right now tickets are on sale there is early bird pricing available all you need to do

is head to this one means business.com and use the code tmmbeb500 to save $50 on your geo ticket

that code is valid until December 31st if that was a mouthful make sure you head to the shownuts

because all the information is there come be part of something bigger I can't wait to see at the

point can you tell me what that light bulb was or is that is that industry industry secret

no like I can give some um but yeah no it was it was really interesting um and I think it would

be interesting to your listeners to a certain extent but so I knew CEOs I knew like you know at

this stage of my career I knew a lot of people at the senior levels and those were the people that

I was calling and saying so like for example the local university here the president of the

university at the time he had been the former vice president of sustainability for body shop worldwide

okay and I've been invented to his wedding like I knew him so I literally walked in and I was

like hey look I've got a solution for you on a silver platter I know you care about sustainability

the woman he married had her PhD in sustainability like sustainability was

conversation at the dinner table and so I was like I got a solution for you and I got this blank

stair he's like an example the head of Nova Scotia Community College I had saw her speak in my

other business and they were spending tens of millions of dollars on this new campus that they were

building in Dartmouth so I was like here I've got a solution for you because you're spending

tens of millions of dollars but you're swag your your products with your logo or not representing

what you stand for I know what you stand for but you're not communicating that effectively

yeah blank stair so that's when I kind of turtleed when I did my research and I phoned I literally

got on the phone and I phoned every person that was like that had put an order in it really

crystallized to me that my customer was female between 25 and 35 they cared passionately about the

planet they cared passionately about they didn't have great big budgets they had more junior

positions at that stage but they looked at it and they said if I've got any budget I'm going to

spend it with in a way that really aligns with my values didn't necessarily even align with the

values of the organization that they worked with yeah they were empowered to spend money they saw

that the way people were spending money was not sustainable and they were like I'm going to do my part

and I that was a bit of an aha for me and I was like I got to stop going to the sea sweet

and I've got to create a solution that makes this accessible one of the things that strike

state terror like when I hear you tell your stories it's just how values led you've been whether

you're intentional about it or not from sort of early days in your career when you when you

when you became a mom and things that mattered for you and even as you build ethical swag whether

it was a happy accident or not I'm curious how you stay the values first in moments where it's

like there's but there's money on the line and it could be this and this maybe isn't the

popular thing like how do you stay tapped into your values as you move yeah that's a great question

um and I think that it's so important for us to stop and think like I've just always like my

father and mother were amazing I think that they're it's kind of rooted in my upbringing my father

was a miraculous man he was an entrepreneur as well and he went bankrupt but I remember being

out to dinner with with him one time in Montreal and I got one of his business colleagues came over

and you know this would have been 70s probably 1970s early 80s and he's like oh he's talking to my

father and he looks at me and he goes you know it's like walking into the United Nations in your

father's office I've never forgotten that because my father did have a very diverse workforce my

father came home when I was still in high school and said do you have any textbooks that I can

have and I'm like what are you talking about he said oh this young guy came in looking for a job

today and I said to him why aren't you in school and he said well because my father's passed away

and I have to help make money for the family so my father said I will hire you on the condition

that you get your GED and I will make sure that we make time that you do that that my deck him

home asking me for textbooks like I remember those things and my father was moderately successful

throughout his career but he did have bankruptcy but he never forgot who the people were he never

treated people with disrespect he was one of the most amazing humans that you'd ever be lucky enough

to meet and I lived that so I think that that rubbed off and it was he he he really embedded in me

that you need to be independent you need to have the ability to make your own decisions

you should never feel like you have to do something and this is a man that came from poverty

to an extent that you and I would never understand he would be over a hundred right now my father he

was an older father when I came along and so he he lived in absolute poverty he was in his

hoardings when I was born I went to his university graduation because he just kept he was just one

of these guys it's like you know people take me seriously by the university education I'm going

to go do it at night I like he just he was really principled and super hard working and on the same

front he would have never been able to do what he did without my mother and so I just had this

unit that demonstrated values as far as I'm concerned that and this is hindsight being 2020

honestly or like you ask that question I look back and say how I would start there

yeah and then also he gave me confidence he like he embedded in me you need to be independent always

hmm and so independence comes with standing up and saying no I'm not going to do that and being

confident enough now I'll just look at another job or whatever it will work out look what happened

to my dad but you know what I mean you know he might get bankrupt and he was okay you know and then

I think that if you have that lens then you say yes to certain things and you see certain things

and the glass is half full not half empty but I've just been really fortunate in my life honestly

yeah I feel like that's really inspiring I mean even for as a mother to hear you know and the things

that we give to our own children and our own values and I think being values for as heart centered

however you want to call it I think these are the things that are so essential as we build businesses

I mean we're in a season where we're finding out a lot of really terrible things a lot of a lot

about a lot of really big billionaires that are really horrible people and you know but I think

that we can be successful and find success by being values first and I think you're an incredible

example of that so I love that I love that very much I would love to talk a little bit about ethical

swag because I know that you mentioned that it was a happy accident you were trying to prove something

to your daughter which I'm just finding out about right now which I think is really cool but you've

done I mean you're doing so much more than putting logos on pens but I'd love for you to share with

us some of the things that you feel like you're doing differently in your industry certainly being

certified B-Corp I think is one of them but I'd love for you if you can give us sort of the highlights

on some of the things that you do differently in ethical swag yeah so we when I realized that I

needed to sort of address the business model in order to meet who I believe is my customer

and I just saw the opportunity and it's hard like you know a lot of people want those

big contracts right yeah and what I my my foundation was I want to make sustainable

swag accessible to those that wanted because it really was why I started the company it wasn't because

I I know that I get I'm a pretty good salesperson I've done sales over the years and if I

decided all I wanted to do was just make a lot of money I could have just gone and sold swag in

the regular way and I could have I'm a good relationship-driven person and you know I have

relationships with people that I started working with 35 years ago and I can text them and they

will answer me in 10 minutes I have an amazing advisory board and it's people that I've known for

years and years and years that have run Canada's largest companies that you know one of my advisors

one of the headguys at Etsy and these are people that I've known for over 35 years and it's like

will you be on my advisory board there's no pay and there's no perks and they're like yeah sure

because of those relationships so like I get relationships and all that sort of thing but at

its core I was like how do I make it accessible and it was going to be e-commerce and it was going

to be I wanted to hire for talent not for location because I wanted to be able to access a talent

pool that I thought was not being tapped into and this is long before COVID when everybody else

was doing remote and virtual work so I was like how do I make technology decisions that are going

to help me be successful in what I'm doing and how am I you know like so I set the foundation

of ethical swag because I wanted to hire for talent not location so that I could create meaningful

work for moms who have decided I don't want to work and have to drive an hour in traffic to work

and leave my kids an hour outside and you know all those kinds of things but a lot of people had to

a lot of family driven people had to not pursue their career and take something lesser because they

didn't want to do the commuter sort of accommodate what was being required and so these were all

the decisions that I sort of made as I went along in the development of ethical swag which has

made me it's really a technology company now we have I was like how do I track all the compliance

information for our vCorp certification how do we make sure that our suppliers are the right

suppliers that we're sourcing from and I didn't have any tech platforms that we're going to support me

in keeping track of all that how am I going to report back to my clients what kind of products

they're buying and how they're doing their spend so now we have a tech stack that we've developed

from scratch for our company and that was all just because of why I was building ethical swag

I could have taken off the shelf stuff but it wouldn't have allowed me to track and monitor

the things that I need to track and monitor for my vCorp for my clients for my you know that sort of

and so it's just been it's been quite a ride and we're quite different from others in that way

because of the approach still innovating still trail voicing right there always yeah oh

technology is going to be the death of me I'm telling you because I'm not a tech person right so

I'm like I spend way too much time trying to get this stuff you know going but it's really important

and once it is done I keep hearing from other tech people it's like it's typical um it's hard

it's hard hard hard hard hard what's the big vision for ethical swag I mean you said it's a

it's a tech company now but what's your big vision now today now that it's no longer a happy accident

and truly you know a big business what's the vision so ethical swag has always been a vehicle

for me to demonstrate that we can create profitable business while thinking about more than just

profit I truly believe that the stakeholder model is the way that we need to go into the future

I'm a capitalist at heart but we can't do it at the expense of people in planet so the stakeholder

model versus the shareholder model so if you think of a shareholder model which is what is being taught

the business school is what like what everybody you know it's shareholder value shareholder value

here this all the time what it's important to understand is if you are only driven by shareholder

value as your sole measure of success then that means if I can get somebody to do that job for a lot

less and less than a living wage then I'm maximizing shareholder value so I shouldn't hire somebody

that allows them to be an active member in the community and that they can buy houses and you know

do all those kinds of things it means that I've got to pay as little as possible over here so I

can maximize value over here for the shareholder which is getting the rich richer because shareholder

should generally be people that have money to buy shares within companies and so when I was growing

up when the barber had seven kids and he was able to have a wife that stayed home to take care of

those kids like that single income owning a house even double income has become impossible so if

you think of the stakeholder model which is I what I truly believe and you have people planet

and profit as a three-legged stool and if you have one of those out then your stool is out of balance

then that's the issue but it's still profit is not a dirty word in my world and so how do we build

business and that's what's really important to me and that's my like what's the end game for me

or what do I see I this is ethical swag is just my way of saying look we can do this we can build

profitable businesses that think about something other than just shareholder value we're getting a

handful of people rich and I want to demonstrate it because I don't believe talking about it is the

way to do it so there's a lot of people that talk about things but they've never done it and I didn't

want to be one of those and I also believe that trying to take something that exists like a steam

train that's going down the tracks at a hundred miles an hour and then jumping into that steam train

and trying to build it slow it down from within I was like I'm just going to do a parallel track

over here and start a little business called ethical swag and I'm just going to do my thing as a

demonstration rather than beating my head against the wall jumping into a corporate structure

that is already going in this direction at this speed and trying to get it to slow down and

think about something else it was just my way of doing it and there's people that are doing

and having huge impact through policy and there's people that are doing having huge impact through

government this is my little way of demonstrating and hopefully your listeners are like okay

because I had the founder of a data at a conference talk about how sustainability was one of his

corpillars back in 1995 and that was the seed that was planted for me to say oh I can have a

for-profit business and think about more than just shareholder value that was the seed that

was planted for me in 1995 and so really my end game is how do we plant seeds with more and more

and more entrepreneurs that realize that this is an option and it's not the tech billionaire that's

what I want that's like try to get into the NHL if you're a young like five-year-old only one

percent of the people actually do it yeah but maybe you want to play hockey until you're 65

and that's okay too and so that's kind of what I'm trying to plant some seeds that's why I love

having folks like you take an interest in what we're doing and giving me the opportunity to talk

about it well consider the seed planted I love that I think I think you're the coolest I love

your story I love listening to you talk I'm so glad that you came on the show I would love

for you to just share where our listeners can learn more about ethical swag and the works that

you're doing how do we find you awesome okay this is really new to me but I just started a

sub-stack so I know so because that's where like I just I I'm being I'm being advised oh you

gotta post on LinkedIn all the time and you gotta do this you gotta do this and it's like this

algorithm thing and like it just goes against my values like I'm finding it really hard I'm not

gonna lie I don't wake up in the morning going how am I gonna get eyeballs on my post on LinkedIn

and I'm getting advisors saying you need to do that that's the way the world works and I get that

and I'm not trying to be but I'm like the sub-stack thing came along and that's where I'm

able to put some of my real sort of thought leadership stuff together in a way that doesn't feel

sales-y so I'm still on LinkedIn you can find me turn a little on LinkedIn ethical swag we know

ethical swag across all the platforms I came off X when Elon bought it so we still own ethical swag

X I've just said they'll find us elsewhere and that was long time ago like that was the day he

bought it I think you'll find it but we are on Instagram and Facebook and we own ethical swag all

over the place I have a sub-stack so please come on over there and that's where you're gonna get

some of the stuff I'm talking to you about here I have sort of this permission to wander sort of

thought process around how do we give our employees and ourselves permission to wander in this

over-optimized AI crazy world and so that's where I talk about that sort of thing I love that we'll

make sure we put all the links in the show notes you'll have to send me your sub-stack links so

that we can get that in there too so people can follow along I think your message is so strong

and so much more than locals on pens truly true Sarah thank you for being here and sharing your

story with us I really appreciate you give me your time yeah of course and thank you for listening

we'll see you on the next episode thanks for listening if today's episode gave me the push you

needed share it with your friend and don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts

ready to take this even further head over to www.thismotherneensbusiness.com and become a member

you'll get real business growth support and build your virtual village of entrepreneurial moms

walking the same path as you until next time keep showing up keep pushing forward and remember

when thismotherneensbusiness anything is possible this podcast is produced mixed and edited by

cardinal studio for more information about how to start your own podcast please visit

www.cardinalstudio.co or email mike at mike at cardinalstudio.co you can also find the details in the

show notes