Reiner, D4vd, Duggar: Behavioral Analysis of Three Active Cases

This is Hidden Killers Live with Tony Brusky and Robin Dree.

Wake up, San Francisco. I'm Danny Tanner. Welcome to the show today. Happy new week, everybody.

Jake Reiner. We're going to be talking about the Reiner situation here. First your thoughts.

We'd love for you to weigh in out there on the comment section. Jake Reiner wrote about

waking up every morning and having to convince himself it wasn't a dream. He put out a new piece

this week. It's the first time he's spoken publicly on his sub stack. The the articles is called

Mom and Dad. He wrote about being robbed of his parents at his wedding of grandchildren. They'll

never hold meanwhile reports say the brother accused of taking all of that from him is allegedly

plotting a revenge tell all from his jail cell not to seek justice not to take responsibility

but reportedly to settle scores with the very people who spent years trying to save him.

So when a family pours everything into someone dangerous and loses everything because of it,

at what point does the person left standing get to stop carrying the weight of someone else's

destruction? That is what we are getting into in our first segment this morning. Robyn Drake,

Retired FBI Special Agent Chief of the Counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program.

My co-host with us is always good morning. Happy Monday. What a busy weekend.

Oh my God. Oh my gosh. With everything going on with everything we're covering. And then in

between all that, you know, the assassination intent or anything, Tony and I are going back and

forth watching more of our cult specials on TV. It all comes up to, I mean, everything just comes

down to really unhealthy minds. That's where we end up with everybody. It's the same time though.

It helps you appreciate what you do have. And every time you watch and absorb and digest what's

going on in the world around you, it gives you context to see what is healthy, what's unhealthy,

so you know what to attach yourself with, who to interact with and know what to tolerate or not

tolerate in your life. I think that's one of the greatest things about doing what we do is we give

some recognition for everyone tuning in to what's right, what's not right when it comes to who should

who should we have in our lives and what we should do about it. Yeah, yeah, 1000%. We're taking

your questions on a sub-stack YouTube Facebook extra if you're watching us live. We also have

several of your questions that you've dropped on our videos over the last week or two. We're going

to try and get to a handful of those here as we work through this live today. But please do,

please do drop them. All right, let's just start with this one. The first one. It's something I think

a lot of people have thought about when they've they've looked at this case. It says, I keep thinking

about that smirk at the arrangement, speaking about Nick Reiner when he was in court. This is that

you rob and you study people for a living. What does a guy who reportedly can't process why he's in

jail, but still wants to write a revenge book actually look like from a behavioral standpoint,

because those two things don't go together in my head. Danielle and Instagram asks that question.

I keep things as simple as possible on this. I'm not the lawyer. I'm not not licensed psychotherapist,

like our great Shavon is, so I just break it down right there. That is one broken brain. It's

really comes down to that. It is a sick MFR. It really is. And there's no, I don't think there's

any fix in it. And I know this comes up with another questions later. Medications that they keep

kept trying with him and are continue to try with him are band aids for the underlying broken

brain. It is an unfixable brain in that head. And so I just think it comes down to that. There's

no reasoning with it. There's no, there's no having it shift. I mean, we haven't seen it yet.

Why would we see a shift in his behavior pattern? Remember, pass his prologue with a lot of people.

And even though we all learn and we're not the same people today as we were yesterday,

you can kind of see those arcs, those trajectories. It's why I always go to behavior arcs and life

arcs with people because people are not going to have these major shifts out of that unless there's

some event that they have this a-ha epiphany. And even with an a-ha epiphany, that rudder

starts shifting slightly. It's not like today I'm a horrible human being that is a wound collecting

victimizing person with a broken brain to tomorrow. I have this epiphany. And in other words,

it's not a a scrooge moment from Christmas Carol where he has three dreams in the middle of the

night and wakes up fixed in the morning. It doesn't happen. Yeah. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen

for many people ever. It needs to, though, doesn't it? Yeah, wouldn't that be great if like that

that story actually worked out and people learned from their horrible mistakes of being massive

narcissists their whole life and something that wake up one morning and like, ah, I'm better.

It's a fascinating thing too. So we can look at patterns, behavior of cross society,

cross everything to really understand what we can reasonably expect in every situation.

Does anyone watching, listening, tuning in? Does anyone ever know somewhere in their life that

went from zero to a hundred went from completely broken to the next day they woke up

full accountability and fixed. The closest you'll come is to like a drug addict alcoholic or

something like that that has their rock bottom and they make the decision that they are broken

and they're going to save their own lives by going to meetings, getting clean, going to detox.

And then the rudder shifts and they stop consuming the horrible things that are destroying them

and they start the first step on their journey to come out of it and it doesn't go from zero to

I get it. It goes from zero to the first step, the second step and it's days, weeks, months,

and years to crawl yourself up out of that mess you created yourself into being a functioning,

more healthy human being that can have a reasonable expectation of a great relationship

with another human being. But for Nick Reiner, ain't happening. I mean, how many times do you

hit rock bottom and only to be saved and coddled by others? Well, I guess maybe that is the question

I think that some people have is has he ever really truly hit rock bottom? I mean, there are stories

where he was homeless, he's talked about it, but they aren't like there are not stretches of

homelessness. I think that a lot of people who are homeless experience like he always kind of

had a safety net to kind of go back on it. It's like homeless light tried it out for a little bit

was like this is a bit much for me and then wondered back to the shelter of his parents and those

who who could essentially keep him from ever hitting rock bottom and drugs were involved in

in much of Nick Reiner's existence. What's scariest to me about people like Nick Reiner and people

not like Nick Reiner, but still have the same sort of pathology and all that is the folks with

the drug addiction and things of that nature, sometimes like you were saying, if they can get

themselves cleaned up, if they can they can get on a good path, there can be some paths to

to redemption. What's more scary that folks where drugs are not involved at all and this is just

how they are because you like you like you remove some of that and the the weight that the drugs

are having on the brain and like suddenly things can clear up a bit when it's like this is just

your normal mode of thinking all the time that's even scarier and I feel like like obviously drugs

are a big part of the story with Nick Reiner, but I think even you take the drugs out of the

equation with Nick Reiner because there were moments of sobriety here and he was still a very

broken person and still very much someone who didn't seem to ever truly take the accountability

for his actions that we're right now. He's in isolation, eating crappy food,

in jail, no drugs involved anymore. And he's still the victim in his own mind. What other bottom

can you hit except death? You know I think he's addicted to bouncing on the bottom. He just

loves dwelling there. He loves I mean think about this besides that broken brain which I think

is unfixable because of people they paid a lot of money and tried to fix it ain't fixed yet.

Why does continue? He's addicted to being the victim. He loves it. He's thriving in it otherwise

why would you continue it unless you're incapable of moving out of it because your brain is so

chemical imbalances, malformations, whatever it is up there that people like Shavon love to

diagnose and can diagnose much more effectively. But again if they could diagnose it so well

they would have fixed it or made attempts to fix it and just hasn't worked. Who knows?

But it's working. I mean recognizing the problem doesn't mean you're fixing the problem.

You know you can go there's a giant hole in the side of the Titanic and it's sinking.

Well I mean yes well if we got it into dry dock we could cover that up with new metal and make

it float. It's already sinking. It's in the middle of the ocean just knowing that that is what

would be the fix doesn't mean you can implement it and I think that's very true with some people

including Nick Reiner. Another question we have here Jake said he'd trade this is Jake Reiner

Nick's brother said he'd trade every Dodger game in every Broadway show just to talk to his

parents one more hour in that and I highly recommend reading it on Substack I I restacked his post

so you can find it on ours. Just the link is in the description for Substack. It's a really

I mean heartfelt piece about his parents I was talking about all those memories and everything

that he shared with them. How do you even begin to grieve people you lost to violence from the

person who allegedly took them is your own brother and he's still finding ways to hurt you

from inside the cell that's the question from Rachel on Facebook. You know I don't know I think

everyone does it differently to me I mean I've seen this in other cases and I think I would do it

in my own life you just have to cut them off I mean he's not a yeah that's not your brother

that's that's something inhuman in there it's just there's just I and I don't know how it looks

like he was this way a very long time but that's not your brother that's not a human being that's

someone that's something that is a toxic cancer in your life and you just have to treat it like

that you've got to cut it out you know some people and we see this with the cult we saw it with Amy

Dodger when we interviewed her and other family members we want to give a lot of grace to family

but I always ask myself why you know I mean seriously you can really see some really unhealthy toxic

things and if you keep associating with it again it's not there's a choice it's not right or wrong

or better or worse I can just tell you the the impact if you keep associating with it or keep

allowing it to infect your brain I didn't say infect your brain because that's exactly what it's

taken up that green matter it's taken up bandwidth it's taken up space you know if you just

regarded as a as a broken tool that is no longer servicing me you got to cut it out because I tell

you what he's not viewing him as his brother he's not viewing him as anything but a tool that he can

try to manipulate for his own gain for his own pleasure because the only pleasure Nick Reiner is

getting again pure conjecture at this point is inflicting continually to afflict pain and discomfort

on others because what has he done his entire life inflict pain to discomfort on others he seems

to enjoy it otherwise he wouldn't do it anymore why is he getting it broken brain whatever but

it's we we allow people to infect us when we accept them still in our lives just cut that crap

out man and I'm sorry for him hugely and I know it's tough for family members people to do that but

if you keep accepting unhealthy in your life it's going to be painful unless you have the ability

to at least sit back and as I say multiple times a day watch a show I can be very close to

people close proximity I can listen to words I can have great conversations but because I assess

who they are what they stand for and all these myriad of things their words don't have impact on me

because that's their thoughts their beliefs their their position on life and it'll just roll right

over me like water no but now if someone I do feel close to I mean like you Tony Todd our crew

here my wife my family my kids what they say what their opinion matters very deeply to me I cannot

actually take an action in my life without one of these these close people in my life being part

of it and if you're part of my very tight circle it's tight and there's a huge bar of good healthy

relationships that you have to meet to be there but other than that I enjoy the show people got

great words some have horrible words I take it all in and assess it and then it rolls right over

like water hard to do takes a lot of reps but in order to preserve yourself because you can't be

there for others if you allow people like that to infect your life do you think that no and this

is me the we're in an interesting place right now in in in in the you know span of human history

the whole no contact thing with your family that wasn't even I mean just 20 30 years ago it was

like what oh my god who would do that and and if you go further back you can kind of understand

why people weren't doing that it was out of necessity it was more so like survival it didn't matter

if you had some narcissistic asshole person in your family if you needed them to survive you needed

them survive and you had to figure out a way to to make everybody while the cogs and the wheel

work together even if some weren't we're not in a world like that anymore we don't need all the

cogs in this wheel to function to survive if you have a family member that's just a bad apple

or whatever you want to call them fight out evil you don't need them you don't have to keep

absorbing them but I don't know that we've mentally caught up to that reality yet I feel like we're

getting there I think it's interesting oh we're just at a piece on this a multi piece on this

about families going no contact and what that means and why people are doing that because there's

a huge percentage of people that are doing it far more than ever having the past with family

members that have been toxic people that have have decided to stop accepting on healthy yeah

that is is this is this just something do you think we're going to get better at this as time

goes on because it's not required and we're not I think a lot of people stay by unhealthy out of

shame and and and by out of guilt but but guilt and shame that are I think very much misplaced

that aren't necessarily accurate to the situation but because we're told we should feel guilty

or shameful for for telling an unhealthy family member to go away and go over there I feel like

that dynamic is shifting I do too and I'm very excited about it yeah we are genetically and

biologically coded for group tribal mentality it's part like you said it's part of our survival

ancient tribal man if you didn't belong to the closeness society close in a group close in

family the chances of you being able to procreate and pass on your genetic coding was slim to none

so we're coded to to want to unconditionally accept and believe in and be around that close family

structure but to your point because society is so evolved with community with government with

businesses with organizations the mechanisms for survival are in place outside of family now

family is a great thing to have if it's healthy what I really like about this is that and Amy

Dougher talked about it when we on chat with her yeah breaking the toxic cycle it's it's breaking

the cycle internally of the trauma response family that's constantly because I don't know the

percentage of very high things 85 the 95% of child as abusers come from a place where they were

introduced to it at a young age you the biophamily member someone close to that family so that's where

you break the trauma cycle when you break that trauma cycle with healthy relationships you have

distanced yourself from that original family and then what are you doing you're lining with new

family you're lining with a new spouse with a healthier spouse and so then you can recollect the

family and then family can be close again because you broke the trauma cycle so I think it's taking

families that were broken for generational trauma breaking it because it takes courage it takes

strength and it takes a lot of effort in bravery to have to courage to break that trauma cycle that

generational trauma cycle and then start a new cycle with a new family and then we can actually

go back to those so those great wonderful family values what allows to do what feel safe

feel seen feel heard and be valued by others but when you're in that toxic generational cycle it

doesn't happen and I think that's what people are starting to do they're starting to have

to courage because you know as detrimental as social media can be and and and all this online

stuff we have at the same time it's able to get messages out like the the people like the

Jill Duggers and the Amy Dugger Kings that were able to escape the trauma cycle and you know

and people that are able to escape escape FDLS and even in this situation brothers that are

able to break from toxic other brothers that have destroyed families that have murdered their

parents you know break that cycle get out move on and I think that's what's going to be hopefully

a resurgence using what could be negative and use it for positive I agree I think that that is

it's a very healthy way of of looking at things in a way that's that essentially has been

shunned I think in society for a long time you don't think that way that you don't even entertain

this idea right when in reality that's that's the way to to freedom if you want yeah just don't

do crazy make that your policy in life don't do crazy keep them out and and and don't be afraid to

say no I'm done I mean it feels like a lot of life almost I don't know in in some ways of

looking at it some generations it's almost like how long have you known these people it's life

is not a race and it's not a contest of how long have you had certain people in your life because

at the end today there's no prize for having toxic people in your life until you're dead you're

going to be much more happier by the time death comes if you had exchanged some of those toxic

people for healthy people there's only so much bandwidth you have to give and take out there

why not spend it with healthy people not the unhealthy so I'm going to give everyone and I've read

I can't remember what exact book that I read desire I read so many books but here is exactly

the win for life if you want to everyone is pursuing a successful life a happy life and it's

easy to get caught up in the materialism of the world and have someone else to find for you what

success is with monetary gain prestige title accolades all the things that you didn't come into the

world with and you're not leaving with so how do you you cannot measure success by those things there's

only really one thing one thing alone I believe you can measure success in and that is how you

remember to type a person you are do you want to be remembered as this great professional or you

want to remember as someone that couldn't that lit up a room when you came around that corner

is always there for someone else and most importantly the greatest gift you can give yourself and give

others the only thing you'll leave is what you taught others about how to treat others how to be

present for them how to be kind how to have grace how to do all these things that help others have

healthy strong relationships that is what success is that's what the life win is what are you going to

do to inspire other people to live a healthier life so they can pass it on generation into the people

in their lives that is what's going to move that's what's going to move our species forward beyond

what it is now with constantly this this this this this and why is it this this this this because we

are constantly caught up in these toxic things it doesn't matter you can't take in this crap with you

so focus on those relationships be that beacon that people want to gravitate to and then

to pass on those skills that always matter in your life and those what those new family structures

there I'm done my soapbox for the day right so if you don't want more of this this this this this

get more that that that that that that by this this this this this this book right here you like

that transition right there wasn't that fun it's it's not all about me exactly it's Robin's

latest book and it's available wherever books are sold go and check that out let's move over to

another topic here another case the autopsy is out the charges are filed and what came out of that

courtroom on the one year anniversary of the last day of Celeste Reves Hernandez was seen alive

it's worse than most people were prepared for prosecutors say they've got 40 terabytes of

evidence a wiretap nobody knew about three separate grand juries and exploitation material found

directly on his phone his defense team response speed it up step on the gas show us everything

and the question that won't leave me alone the one that I think you might be sitting with two is

what were all the adults doing for 12 months between when this child vanished and when someone finally

smelled something wrong in a tow yard your questions on substack on youtube drop them we're gonna

try and get through them as we we look at the the David case let's start here Robin his lawyers

are demanding a faster hearing strategy some people wave the right to speedy some are like let's

step on the gas for different reasons 40 terabytes they haven't apparently seen yet

what do they know that we don't that they're wanting this to move really fast

you know this is such a bob question it is I mean it is but I'm curious to get your conjecture on

yeah so there's a lot of I looked up there's a lot of legal reasons for this that it's it's

definitely unprecedented typically they don't do this fast they don't want to move this fast but

there's one theory that I kind of have in my mind again you place yourself in that situation

and so I'm going to answer it from a behavioral standpoint not from a bob mara legal stand for

or a good friend Eric on the prosecution side as well I think there's so much

uh-ohs that have just happened with the release of the autopsy result and the terabytes and what we're

seeing for um child's uh s things on his cell phone and things like that the faster they move

the less that's known in the media I think it's really about trying to negate or at least

lessen the huge negative impact or conjecture and all these things that are coming out so let's move

fast before people see even more I really think that's part of it because there is with that much

and think about that terabytes of information and none of it is any good none of it's going to be

to his benefit so if you want to not give people time to digest that much data let's quickly move so

you don't get to see that much data and let's try to get this thing moving that's what I'm thinking

yeah I mean again we don't have not diagnosing immunisensal proven guilty in our opinion blah blah blah

allegedly put that in front of everything um the narcissist don't like their mask slipping

and and if David is a narcissist which it kind of appears that he may be he seems to have some

of the traits um the last thing they they want is exposure and and I mean this is why we've

seen so many cases where we get right up to trial and they're professing their innocence right

up in the life and suddenly it's like oh guess what it's show time here comes a spotlight it's

about to shift on to you I did it shut the show shut the show down oh yeah rex human rex

here man Brian coberger I mean you see it in a lot of cases like that control control control

1000% and if that's and and they will exercise any any monochrome of control that they can get

because that's big to them that's all they have left so it's going to be a big deal and they're

going to go on at full force so I'm thinking you're right I think that's probably some level of this

the less that can just linger out there into the ether the better but at the end of the day here

I mean sorry the shit's going to linger out there forever this is part of the record and I think

as soon as I think part of the strategy to again we're going to make our list for Bob tomorrow yeah

I think part of the strategy here could also be for the defense to get all the the information

for discover as fast as they can before the media gets it so they can make their determination

as fast as possible and put a plea to plead on deal together I think you know I know Bob said

it last week in the week week before as well I'm I'm leaning on with this much information with

this many bad things going on I I can't imagine it going to trial I mean and again but you never

know on these things but but there's so much information it looks like and I think in order for

to keep control the narrative to actually have any potential for a plea deal of any of any site

I think that's why I think they just want to move to that as fast as possible so they can

actually have a good choice amount how to do it yeah I mean I feel like where we're going to go

here is and this is just my non legal expertise my legal expertise comes from talking to Bob a lot

right I know we're checking her in her bomb yeah you know so that's what that my gut on it is

we're looking at a situation here where death could possibly be on the table yeah

and and I think that might be the only that's the only you know piece that that he has on

the board to play with anymore is okay plead out and we're not going to try you for the death

penalty yep and you're going to be gone forever but at least you won't die that's right that's

the route I'm going to yeah that's why you and I are aligned but we'll salt Bob with it tomorrow

okay I'd question for you guys I was thinking about that yeah Todd will he you know it seems like

there's some dark stuff in this kid's mind right yeah would he enjoy the death penalty oh god

like like the process like like being on death row like yeah like going for the ride essentially

because that's a long stretch right that's a long stretch of time well that's like his music videos

right exactly yeah it's a really interesting question um it's really interesting because I mean

you know he's going to be creating art around all these things because he's all about the dark

imagery so he's going to be using something with it um I really I'd be really curious about

and again now we're shift on to Shavon on on Wednesday I wonder about his because people like

this have a lot of suicidal idealization a lot of times too I'd say if he had a suicidal idealization

he might be willing to go down that route but if he but if he sees himself as the martyred

artist behind bars I think it also be interesting too is is there son of sam law where he's being

convicted because he could really profit handsomely behind I mean think about the following he has

I think there is I mean it's California I mean there's there is some whether it's called son of

sam there I don't know but there's something in place right so he can't profit from yeah they can't

take the proceeds from anything so I think all those things are what the defense is going to weigh in

on that but really good insight and in question Todd I mean I mean I mean we kind of thought that

way about Cobra a little bit too like he's is he enjoying the ride here is this part of what he

wanted but he didn't go for the whole trial that would be part of the ride I would think if you

if you did this you'd want to go on but I don't know I mean they they can kind of pick and choose

where they want to use their fast pass if you will and I and that'll definitely play in you know so

if he wants to go full trial no one he's going to get convicted anyway again it's good I was just

keep coming back to tell us if using a real life for all their song lyrics you know and he's doing

the same thing I mean he's using his real life his dual horrendously dark evil life for his art

and so being going through the trial so I think if he wants to not share with the world the things

he did and things he did to others um he would control it and plea out but if he's proud of it if

he thinks it's part of his narrative of how he's living his life he wants to expose so I think

I think the plea if he pleads or not will be really telling and all that I think this is an interesting

question here and I want to I want to give a quick answer before I toss it to you after I read it

they say this is from Steph via something or is it this is from email they said financial gain

as a special circumstances they're saying he allegedly ended a child's life to protect a

music career this is a line that gets me how does a person get that far gone and I think a lot of

people are wondering that how do you how are you that far gone how do you get that far gone

it's hard to get that far gone if you were never there to begin with and and I think that that's

that's something that we forget especially with some of these cases where they're this young I mean

I know he's like like 21 now or something this 19 is earlier so he was still a damn kid he wasn't

he wasn't there you can't get gone if you were never there if you've just developed into this

and and you've had an ecosystem that has allowed you to become this you were never gone you're

just functioning as you've been essentially bred as you've been raised as you've been

conditioned if you will by your thinking by your surroundings you know by by a lot of different

things I don't know that some of these people were ever there to get gone I don't know your thoughts

yeah I don't think he was ever there either so so think about so let's do our thought experiment

right here so here's someone that had a lot of early success before the prefrontal cortex fully

formed before the age of 24 which means we're highly emotionally impulsive we're not really clear

thinkers on things and he had zero guardrails even though he comes from apparently a religious

family he didn't appear to have any guardrails whatsoever about what he could or couldn't do he had

all the wealth he needed to do to do whatever he wanted to do he attracted more nutters around

them all before the prefrontal cortexes and lobes are fully formed so they're all completely

back shit crazy and no guardrails and then you have proclivity for doing horrendous things to

underage people yeah it was never there that I don't think there was a semblance of healthy

thoughts that was in his life to that point before we saw that or started hearing some discovery

again I was you know admittedly I was on the camp this human being couldn't possibly have done

anything horrendous it must have been a mistake cover up again prefrontal cortex not fully formed

you have a panic escalation try to do something because you mistaken whether it's drug overdose

or doing stupid party whatever it was and she died accidentally nope I don't think that I

I'm all on board with just broken from the beginning no guardrails and bad crap really happened

there is a question here in the comments I wanted to go back to it's about Celeste parents

I just did even more research on them too about David and Celeste families yeah this is this is

one and I'm not I'm not going down the road that they were were paid or anything like that but

says yes so stranger Celeste parents she knew where she was that's in it we don't know for sure

but they they listed her as missing but it does seem a lot of people knew where the hell she was

she wasn't like missing in like the sense of she's on the side of a milk carton oh my gosh

where did she go like she was coming and going from the family dynamics here pretty much up towards

the end right maybe not in the trunk or a tessa they they let their little girl essentially live

with a grown man why didn't they call the cops getting money maybe that's the question and I'm

saying that I'm not insinuating that I think it's a fair question to ask I think all that needs

to be looked into and I hope they already have but yeah I'm not I'm not in the camp here of

just giving Celeste parents a free pass here either I know they're grieving I know this is her

renders I cannot imagine going through it but there is responsibility to be had when you're a

parent of a 13 year old girl she's not an adult and sometimes you have to be a parent I don't

give a flying fuck how much you're working how much you have to do this how much you have

to do that your number one priority is your child and clearly by seeing the way the dynamics

of this family worked that child was not the number one priority in my opinion your thoughts

I agree at the same time I'm this part confuses me believe they're not um I mean I got you know

I keep all my you can see it I keep all my research and I yeah literally before we came on I

researched her parents again what they did what they didn't do I see the comments right here the

PI's evidence that her family knew where she was okay maybe there's so much that you and I wouldn't

do but yeah but I'm gonna I'm gonna pull the Bob Mata on this one where okay we don't know them

we don't and so I I don't want to cast shade if they did do all what I've read I mean if they're

it says here that they weren't contact with police a lot trying to find her but at the same time

to everyone else's point everyone else seem to know where she was she's showing up on security

camera footage she's showing up on yeah I mean it's not again she's not milk carton missing I don't

I don't get it I mean that's what I mean I don't get it I just so what you do yeah what I what

here's what I would expect I would expect if they didn't give a rat's ass that there'd be one

replace one police report and not another but we have multiples but not multiples with tons of

follow up it looks like I mean just like see what I mean it's just and they're and I think they

gave a rat's ass to a certain extent yeah not so I guess it's you know it's it's kind of like

it's kind of like being on the spectrum I think you know you have you and me and all our followers

obviously getting a rat's ass which is way up here and then you have their family which wasn't down

at zero but maybe like right around three on a scale of one to ten the no the the other area of

this that I don't have the answer to that I think would tell us a lot about it is and I'm just

gonna be very blunt about it she was a missing brown girl and we know how that works in a lot of

cases where if she's a missing white blonde girl whoa well there you go you're you know headline

story for Ashley Banfield but on something like this and I'm not casting dispersions and Ashley

Banfield I'm just saying that's you know how that sort of shit works right in terms of where

attention seems to go and and even deeper what people click on people always ask why did they

only cover this why don't they cover that because guess what the public's interest

if we put out two different videos tomorrow one was about this one was about that and I'm gonna

say I really hope this one over here that's much worse about the little brown girl gets a lot

more attention guess what's gonna get more attention not that one and that's not me that's not you

that's society that's the world doing what they do making bad choices and not prioritizing

every human as being on the same playing field and that shitty but it is it is the world we live in

but I do wonder how much of that played into this in terms of the police response the police

investigation before you got the rest of the world with talking about this the podcasting the

the news coverage of all of that when she was missing for all of that time before this murder

took place we didn't hear about it we didn't really know this little girl was missing that there

was a connection to this this star none of that was a story I'm kind of thinking it might have

been if there was a little blonde white girl that had been hanging out with the music artist and

suddenly she's missing that probably would have been a story but for whatever reason it wasn't

and I question and I again I don't know the answer to this but I do wonder what the response

was from authorities of like I should just run away and there was just being handled like they do

the other hundreds of thousands of runaway cases of well we hope she shows back up good luck

so I definitely think that was part of it we've seen it in too many cases for it to not be part of

but I think it's I think it's one of a couple data points probably that led to this being the

way it was so you have that as a as a data point then I think also when you have private investigators

over and you have people knowing where she is and when whether the family knew directly or a one

degree separation told the family well she's hanging out with this guy David who's this music

guy's got a lot of money and if you've got a chaotic life at home and you're dealing with a lot of

chaos and trauma and you know that one of your kids is not here but she's seen I hear from the

grapevine she's fine you can rationalize not doing more about it again pure conjecture pure pure

pure hypothesis but when you put all these things together cops aren't paying attention to it

because it's it's it is what it is yeah then you have no pressing from the parents because and

also we don't know what the cops knew about where she was or not because they could have said the

same thing they said well if she's over here we have this because remember everyone's always

working with bandwidth so here you have thousands of missing kids claimed thousands and you happen

to know that the ones the majority of the ones are going missing they're about to be trafficked

and then you have one that's reported missing but we know she's overshared with this dude

where with limited bandwidth as as a law enforcement professional where you're going to focus

where's the family going to pursue what I mean so it's they they I believe that probably too many

people thought she was safe where she was when she actually wasn't so a lot of looking back and

could have should have would have it feels like in this case your thoughts in the comments section

on sub-stack and in YouTube I don't know I'm I'm willing to hear anything in this case about

how all these things worked I do not know the answers to these questions but I think they need to

be asked about the responsibility and what roles people were playing at what time in Celeste's

life or what they were not playing a role in where they should have been these are fair questions

and I'm still more on his parents all of well every damn one of them every damn one of those

all underage yeah well they were yeah I mean David was nine at a time he was yes I know and I

know legally we got that that whole 18 year old thing but anyway anyone all under the age of 24

I think is an underage more I agree I agree yeah potentially mentally to be there as a responsible

parent yes yes but again there's there's there's this is a bad recipe the whole damn thing is a

bad recipe yeah young fame suddenly falling into money fall you know the shelter the religiosity

the situation of Celeste I mean they're everything is a bad the whole damn recipe is shit and when

you mix all that together you get something like this and and I think that's where we're at again

your thoughts you thoughts in the comments section and sub-stack and YouTube as we continue to work

our way through it hey here's another fun topic I say it facetiously come home to the doggers

oh my god the things nightmares are made out of the doggers a child allegedly hurt by someone who

was supposed to be safe just carried it for years before she told anyone and now we're talking here

weeks after the arrest the man who allegedly did this is back home out on bond living under

restrictions he can't possibly follow without someone watching and nobody watching the family

is fractured some are calling it evil some are calling it persecution and the people closest to

the victim are reportedly starting over with nothing the legal system hasn't even gotten started

yet but the choices people are making right now who they're standing with what they're saying

and what they're not are already telling us everything you guys have a lot of opinions about this

and there's a lot of very interesting reporting going on out there this is like the soap opera from

hell and I try I mean there's there's the news element of it and then there's it gets into soap opera

material literally and it's like I I see a lot of it this is going on around close to my ecosystem

so it's I'm trying to like not dive too deep into the soap opera but it's hard not to sometimes

I know you guys are having a lot of questions too Joseph is home right now he's a bonded out bond

conditions saying no unsupervised contact with miners he has four kids under eight

how does that work Karen via Facebook well he's not with their their kids right now the kids

and they're not with mom either the kids are in protective custody and the protective

custody ain't family either which I think to me that says a lot a lot of times when

kids going to protective custody they're going to look for family members they're going to look

for oh this be a good safe place to put them that's not where they went that's not where they

went and if if my math is correct there's there's 19 options as to where the or more as to where

those kids could have went but they went to somewhere else somewhere within the system

what does that say to you about what's going on here with this case I think there's a lot of

leakage where law enforcement has taken a close look at everything going on here and so

in child protective services is obviously seen in as well so for some reason that they're seeing

they don't trust anyone that family to have these kids so that's a good sign for maybe their

inch in their way towards justice maybe we'll see and you know what's so really shame is that

we know that there are a few that escaped that seem to us especially since we interviewed Amy

and we read Jill's book and he was close to Jill too that because I don't like to I don't like

children in the system just because you haven't seen good cases there either now you really wish

and you know and Amy said on our show that she would be more than happy to pitch in she's offered

as well so I'm getting there's a lot of drama there's a lot of like you said soap opera stuff going

on I like that note that they're not still in the toxic system but the same time though

they can't be feeling too good those are four little babies that just are really hugely

confused right now and probably scared too because they've been they've been they've been thrown

into thinking one thing about the system they live in and now because we saw this in all

specials we watched whether it's LDS or IBLP that they're so indoctrinated that anything outside

of that system that doesn't exactly operate the way you know grandpa Jim Bob told him it's evil

it's horrible I'm falling outside the umbrella so it's got to be a lot of fear in their hearts as well

I yeah I mean I'm not pro let's throw them to the system either if there's a good family member

that can take care that's usually your best option but I think it's interesting if this is in

fact how it's all playing out again conjecture our opinion in my opinion allegedly to everything

we're talking about but it's it's it's it's very interesting that that seems to be the dynamic

again if that's accurate as to where it's all playing out right now I mean it seems to say

quite a bit here's another one it says he allegedly confessed on a call apparently he had no idea

he was being recorded the twice basically and then his lawyer turns around and they plead not guilty

does that not guilty plea have any real shot or is it just about buying time good question for Bob

I don't know where it leads I mean I mean everybody it seems most people do plead not guilty

initially and it usually ends up going to some sort of a plea deal of some sort rather than just

straight to guilty it's it's another you know it's a situation where words don't mean what they

mean in in some cases especially in the legal system you know or or it's just utterly delusional

and and he believes under his way of thinking and reasoning in his mind that he's not he's not guilty

of these crimes for whatever reason he's been absolved of them by God or I don't know I don't

know what the hell was going on up there to say not guilty when you've allegedly already admitted

to this other than this is just to run the clock down a bit while we work on the the deal over here

on the side it's really interesting and what popped in my mind as we started talking about this

just now Tony is Jim Bob's letter to Joe behind bars and it was very very pragmatic and very

law like like he was very saying hey bad things are happened again he was he was diminishing the words

and of the accusation everything but it's very much hey here's a law you're going to be going away

from a long time most likely so you can see that they're they're accepting of what the fate will

be legally but from everything we've seen studied and watched for this family for so long now

that doesn't seem to matter nearly as much them as their faith and their IBLP methodology with

hey we're all going to do bad things we're not going to stir up the brethren all you have to do

to be redeemed is to admit your sin you'll be redeemed because that's the most important thing

and now you can have a ministry and you know what ministries more important because that's the way

you get into heaven the only way you get into heaven is to be redeemed have a ministry and have

lots of kids this legal stuff doesn't mean anything because you can do and in their mindset from

what we understand from studying IBLP you can literally do anything if you seek forgiveness it has

to be given if you're seeking forgiveness and you have to be redeemed and that's all you've

got to do and have kids and you're going to heaven which they think is all more important than going

to jail and I think in an important interesting distinction there too is it and the forgiveness it

doesn't have to come from your victims it says to come no no no no no no the victims mean nothing

nothing they're not even the damn equation it's like children are quivers as long as you

as long as you go and speak to sky daddy and in sky daddy tells you specifically you're forgiven

or you just this is what the forum says it says I mean if you ask for forgiveness you will be

forgiven if you believe and besides yeah and besides the the forgiven by the victims well the

victims are shamed into forgiving them because in order to keep under the umbrella you have to show

forgiveness then there yeah then they're in the wrong under the you see how stupidly cyclical

cyclical this is you have to forgive heinous acts by anyone or you're going to fall inside the

umbrella and not go to heaven and burn in hell that's a belief system that believes as self fulfilling

prophecy of creating narcissistic s freaks towards children exactly one thousand percent there

and there's I just did a piece this morning um and I I was addressing Joseph directly in it because

he some of those jail phone calls which are horrific to listen to they're they're just so

delusional in their nature of some sort of Kendra I mean all you do is is listen to that poor girl

being basically tortured and she has no idea she's being tortured no yeah it's it's it's it's yeah

I mean it's painful she's like I'm getting an IV I can I'm not eating I'm can barely walk and

like I'm reading Ruth about how I'm redeemed is basically yeah read some songs you know the

transfusion today yeah who cares stuck it up read more songs you'll feel better it's like it's like

it's it's it's it's spousal abuse in my opinion just on like as blatant as you can get actually

watch trauma bonding life listen to it she she's getting she's talking it is because she's

talking about horrendous she is and at the very end she's do you love me well yes I do oh thank

you for loving me there is there's the one bomb and trauma trauma trauma trauma little bomb

yeah because that there that was a big tell on that we're at the end she's like do you she's asking

if he loves her he abused children and she's asking if he loves her you know and this this is

why you know I said on the piece this morning that I'll be dropping here tomorrow sometimes

you got a fight fire with fire and since he's speaking all biblically I spoke all biblically

right back in him and I'm going with the Matthew chapter about putting the millstone around the

child that predator's neck and dropping him in the sea he skipped that part he went right to

Ruth and went right to their redemption not the part of Jesus talking about let's put the

millstone and kick you off the boat I lost that one better I think it's more applicable it's actionable

it seems like it could be effective it would solve a lot of problems I say let's go get a boat

this weekend everybody can go out on it you know have a couple beverages and there you go millstone

see you later Joe you know I'm I'm giving a lot of credit to Amy doger king on her book holy

disruptor in this one she starts out the entire book on the first chapter countering all of gym

bobs and iblp's doctrine with other other citations from the bible that totally debunk everything

that you stand for so she did a great job at that yeah she really did yeah yeah highly recommend

if you've not seen our interview with the Amy the conversation it is up here on our channels go

and check it out just more to come very likely by the way too great so it should be yeah my god

all right your thoughts in the the comments section on sub stack and YouTube we'd love to hear

them we'll try and get to them I'll try and answer them online or in a future episode of the program

here love for you guys to weigh and press subscribe wherever you're getting podcasts so you don't

miss any episodes robins latest book it's not all about me there you go it's worth reading Joseph

this would be a good one for you while you're on house arrest you know while you're sitting there

and looking for something to do all right until next time for Todd for Robin I'm Tony Bruce

we'll talk again real soon want more on this case and others then press subscribe now and don't

miss a moment of true crime coverage from Tony bruski and the hidden killers podcast