SURVIVING: Ernest Pine

0:00Hi, crime junkies, even though I don't sound like it, I am your host Ashley Flowers and I'm Brett and even though I'm sick There is no way I was going to keep me from telling this story this week because this is an urgent warning for the people of Elizabeth town Kentucky. There is a man living among you who committed one of the most violent heinous crimes on a neighbor that he barely even knew for a reason no one knows With her grandchild in the other room. He brutalized this woman and then went home to make supper and watch TV like nothing happened and the only reason police knew where to go looking for him and the mountain of evidence that Proof to committed this crime is because the victim wrote his name in her own blood and Somehow managed to survive so she could warn others about this church-going father who Masqueraded as a good man This story is going to be hard to hear but no one else is talking about it

1:00So I want to warn you because some in the community have long wondered whether this survivor was the only victim of Ernest Pine You The neighborhoods that surround rough river lake in Kentucky are quiet ones It's over an hour away from any big city and really gives those nothing bad happens here kind of vibes To those who don't know But anyone who lived there in August, 2008 found out the hard way that evil can reside anywhere

2:02And they learned that lesson at the expense of one woman a woman who is still so scared of the man who Masqueraded as normal that she asked us not to use her real name, so I'll call her Linda And the day that changed Linda's life forever was August 25th, 2008 That's when Linda was home babysitting her 22-month-old granddaughter who was asleep on the couch And Linda was next to her just watching TV when she got a knock at her door It was a little after 7pm at the time the sun was still out Wouldn't be setting for like a couple of more hours that time of year And in a place like this where you know all your neighbors Linda didn't even hesitate to open her front door And it was for a neighbor Ernest Pine Now the two exchange friendly greetings and Ernest told Linda that he was there to talk to her husband about a boat dock That either he has or maybe one that he was building and he wanted her husband to work on it because he's an engineer Now Linda's husband wasn't home and she told Ernest as much said he would be back in a half an hour or so

3:04And Ernest seemed happy with that and turned to leave And as he made that motion signaling to Linda that their very normal very safe interaction was over Just when her guard was completely down and she went to close the door That is the moment he pounced Ernest shoved the door open and forced his way inside and before she can even process what is happening Linda feels the butt of a gun against her head and she hears Ernest in her ear He says Turn around bit you are going to die Every nerve ending is on fire and she believes him Even before he pulls out the six-inch hunting knife and zip ties Which by the way he had to have brought with him this was planned And in that moment she knows that this isn't a situation where she can just appease him Give him what he wants in he'll leave what he wants is to kill her and so she fights He's trying to get her to put her hands behind her back and to tie them with the zip ties, but she won't let him

4:07So he hits her with the gun three times but Linda keeps fighting And for a moment she pulls her arms free and she reaches for the side door That leads to the garage hoping that she can get her German shepherd that is in there But right as she is about to open it Ernest grabs her again He pulls her back and this is when he's able to tie her arms And he tells her that if she tries that again, he will not just kill her He will also kill her granddaughter too Now Linda knows that that little girl could wake up any second so she makes a request She asks Ernest to move her to the small laundry utility space that they have just off the kitchen So that whatever is about to happen to her won't be witnessed by her granddaughter if she does wake up And Ernest complies He drags her to that room and she hears the lock click behind them Now Linda is still not giving up in that moment She manages to pull her arms out of the zip ties But Ernest is bigger than her He overpowers her

5:08He cuts off all of her clothes and for the next 15 minutes That feel like a lifetime to her Ernest sexually assaults her with objects that he finds nearby While Linda tries to fight him off Now at one point Linda is able to push him to the ground And that's when he starts cutting her with his knife And he tells her that she is not getting out of this room She has to die because she knows who he is And that's when he pulls out his gun and aims it right at her head And she hears it go off But somehow by some miracle the round just zips past her head and hits the wall So he fires again But this time it's just the click of the trigger she hears No shot The gun Jammed But in that half second that Linda thought she'd been saved That's when Ernest grabs Linda by the head And slices her throat ear to ear When Ernest lets her go Her body just falls limp onto this pile of towels

6:08And even though at that moment she is sure she's going to die She still won't give up She is pressing the towels against her neck Trying to use them to like stop the bleeding as best she can And she uses every ounce of energy she has Every ounce of will power that she has left to hold on as long as possible And to hold as still as possible Because she's trying to convince Ernest she's dead Now it's quiet so she can hear him unlock the door Leave the room But then he comes back and he just like Stams over her And all of a sudden Linda feels this searing pain because he's stabbing her And he does this over and over again leaves Comes back and stabs her leaves comes back and stabs her And all the while somehow she is managing to play dead Finally she hears a new sound Ernest is running the sink in the utility room Now he thinks she is dead on the floor And he is washing his knife and washing his hands above her

7:09Before leaving the room one last time Then she hears the front door open and close And even then she cannot bring herself to move Like he could come back and if he does If he stabs her one more time That might really be it for her So for another 10 long minutes Linda just lies there bleeding on this heap of towels Wondering if her utility room is going to be the last thing she ever sees And when she's sure that he's not coming back to clean up anymore That's when Linda takes her finger And in her own blood begins to scroll Ernest's name on the wall She wants people to know who did this to her And when she finishes the final e in his last name pine Somehow maybe it's the adrenaline that's been rushing through her body Or just the drive to protect her granddaughter At that moment Linda pushes herself up off the floor And she makes her way out of the utility room Into the kitchen where she can see her granddaughter

8:10In the living room on the couch who think God is still asleep and unharmed So she makes a b-line for the front door to lock it And the next to the door is their security system So she presses the panic button which triggers a 911 call at 812 pm Ending her hour in hell with Ernest Now she has never had to use this button before She doesn't even know how quickly police will respond or if they will at all So she goes back to the kitchen and starts making calls while she's still bleeding out She calls her son-in-law who lives next door And then she hangs up and calls her husband and begs him to come home They both call 911 to to make sure they know to send an ambulance not just police And Linda is somehow still conscious and talking when first responders get their 820 pm And as more and more people show up and she's loaded into an ambulance She is able to relay what happened to her And more importantly who is responsible So as they airlift her to university hospital in Louisville for emergency surgery The sheriff goes to the home of Ernest Pine

9:12Just a one minute drive away Positions outside his home and calls his landline When Ernest answers the sheriff asks him to come out of his home But he doesn't say why Now it's dark now around 9 pm And Ernest emerges from his front door Blinded by a cruiser's spotlight And as the sheriff arrests him and place him in the back of a car A deputy notices that he wreaks of alcohol But he is coherent enough to answer questions after he's read his Miranda rights They ask him, is anyone else inside? No he says, my wife said a dog showed 2 hours away Were you at Linda's house earlier tonight? No But when the sheriff says like, so if a neighbor told me that they had seen you on the front porch earlier Then you're saying that neighbor would have been lying And this is when Ernest starts backtracking Saying well you actually yeah, I did go over there to talk to her husband about a boat dock But Linda said that he wasn't home so I just left Okay, your name is written in her blood But I don't think he's pieced that together yet

10:15Like I don't think he knows that she's the neighbor who saw him I mean he knows what he did to Linda So I think at his mind she should not be alive Linda is dead so calm, cool and collected He just answers their questions And acts like this is some big misunderstanding The sheriff asks Ernest if he has any weapons at home Ernest mentions like 2 or 3 long guns in the sheriff's like Yeah, but what about a handgun Now Ernest thinks for a while and he's like well, oh yeah, I do have this 22 It's in a toolbox in the basement Perfect So he's taken to the station And somewhere between when he's put in the back of the sheriff's car And when he gets to the station before the recorded interview with him begins Investigators give him a heads up Like oh by the way, it wasn't just a neighbor who saw you on her porch It was the victim herself who I did you And by the way, we're getting a warrant to search your house for that gun And anything else we can find And also before their interview starts with him They're getting as much background on Ernest as they can

11:17But honestly, the more they learn about this guy The more shocked they are by this crime And the more they have to be thanking their lucky stars that Linda survived Because without her, I don't know if they would have ever gotten to Ernest Because 58 year old Ernest does not fit the profile of a violent offender that they might have gone looking for Because he's been married to the same woman for his whole adult life They have two kids, grandkids And he has no adult criminal record that they can find Know what else they can't find? Any connection to Linda I mean aside from living a minute away from her, they don't seem to really know one another Or have any history I mean like Linda and her husband would wave to Ernest when they would walk their dogs But that was it And even in that like barely any words are spoken between them And Ernest was never alone with Linda or anything like that So by the time Kentucky State Police Investigators get in a room with Ernest Hours after his arrest They are dying to get to the heart of their questions

12:20Why? And I'll warn you What you're about to hear The actual interview audio Between Ernest and the detectives It is explicit and troubling Okay, my name is Detective Jason Brooks We're going to detect the state police The date is always 26 2008 time is 135 hours each and stand your time We're currently in the Brooklyn Ridge County Sheriff's Department Myself and Detective Matt Johnson The Detective State Police We'll be attempting to interview Ernest time Ernest Pat You can't run an influence alcohol or any drugs Anything like that I've never taken one tonight but don't You're not Not intoxicated or anything like that We'll have to talk to you about The incident at the night why you here Would you be willing to talk to us about that

13:21I'm not real sure what the incident is about Do you have any idea of why you're in here I don't have a red paper What's the fault with the incident it was me Uh-huh And that's why we're no Okay We're in the back of a car Okay The incident All right Who was this neighbor You said this Was he Crossed We know 2000 Okay And how did you Learn that she Say that you were a solider When the sheriff called On phones and come on your house Okay Did he tell you What the uh Accusation was also And she said I did Okay Did you in fact Assault miss Tonight Have you been over to miss House tonight I went over So I want to talk to her husband What were you going to talk to him about He built both dogs And I just got reason to go from it Mm-hmm And the guy that

14:21Said he's gonna do it He's gonna put him in this weekend Like you have to show him up So I'm gonna talk to him What did she tell you You wasn't home Okay And then one after No I didn't Went back Okay So you went back home What did you do when you went back home Get ready Or sit and watch what you did You remember what you were watching No You living home by yourself On water Okay You're watching home and on No, she's watching the red dog, so Have How long have you lived at the residence Where you live now About a year I'm not sure I mean we just got the hospital Do you know I mean you have Any other clients But with the We talked to over two or three times That just casual conversation Or walking down the street Or we'd be walking down the street Probably how you doing

15:23Why do you think If she was assaulted Which she named you As being the person that assaulted her I don't know That's the fact that I did it in her front door Of course the reason you're here Is for you Seriously I don't know if I have to use it University of Louisville Hospital Right now As we speak And she Said told several people That You were the person That did this to her However You're saying That's not true Is that correct? Why would she accuse you Of doing this if you didn't have anything to do with I said I was with door And she balled like her back I don't know Yeah We know what's been done What's happened We'll find out what's happened That's what we do I mean, that's such a job But

16:24We talk to people all the time Because It's kind of like it's not normal But hey It's It's kind of there's always a reason That something happens And we want to try to find out why So we can prevent it from happening again Here's the situation When I miss fire We're going to search Your residence And we're going to search Residents for evidence And we're going to find Evidence In those places Okay The evidence I believe is going to show That you're not telling us the truth Right now I believe that the evidence That we're going to find The state Mr. We're getting from other people Is going to show That What you're telling us is not the truth That you in fact Did go over To Tows And assault her Tonight I hope that you're not the type of person

17:26That goes out here And sits and thanks That horrible Evian Terrible Things To do the people that Praise on On innocent people out here And And just Try to torture them And do terrible things to them I would rather thank you To the person that made a simple mistake tonight And just Did something that was totally out of character And would not Normally do But the evidence is going to show That That you were there And that You had something to do with this And I need to know from you Which type of person you are If you're that evil type of person I'm thinking about on this end Or if you just made a mistake tonight And did something that was totally out of character That would never happen again That's not going to Not go So I don't think the evidence is not much Okay When we go in there And we find evidence In your home On your person In Tows It shows

18:26That you're not telling us The truth How do you think a prosecutor And a judge is going to view that Are they going to say This is the type of person It might have a mistake They're going to say This is the type of person It's enough to straight up lie To those detectives When he knew good and well That there was evidence that Showed He had done something like this What do you think a prosecutor Is going to say What do you think a jury is going to say About something like that You had a bunch of evidence I guess it's Have to say that It's if we say If we say that A bunch of evidence here For you Then that might Thank you You want it That was your kind of honest I don't know what evidence you can do You should probably hear some situations Like We're talking with you here Because it's what we did Okay Oh There's not a big one reason While we have to be talking to you This is your opportunity Got to help yourself The good thing here Is that she hasn't died Okay She won't tell you to do it

19:27She was actually involved You want to take me to a hospital I'm going to test it Okay Because if I don't take a pill That is nothing going to happen Okay So I'm not going to have some of the Medica in me Then there wouldn't have been a sexual assault And the first one Did I say you have stuck your penis inside over Okay, what's the sexual assault Well, any type of assault they involve Yes, her Any type of assault they involve her Sexually They involve her vagina Okay Our reinies To be a sexual assault would be a rape Okay, well then Then say you didn't sexually assault Well, it's okay Well, that's what she's saying Well, that's because we're at We haven't done anything Oh, there we've got it It's what she's saying Okay Maybe you tell something a little different In the case I would against church Not exactly Okay Because I mean there's going to be Have a day I was going to call All right, what she said If she said it was a sexual assault What was a sexual assault

20:29What she's saying Did you Stuck some things up in her vagina And her anus Some foreign objects And they not be sexual assault I mean it could we could Very well If that wasn't for sexual gratification Why not be sexual assault But what we're saying is this is what she's telling us Okay, we're here to talk to you And get your side of the story Your side Side of the story That's what you're saying No, but Mr. Byrd Mr. Byrd Mr. Byrd You don't understand That 95% of the Accusing that your body gives off is not very Okay, we've been doing this and that I know you're very nervous And you've been trying Probably the military About talking about friends Like it's not like normal And looking on Okay, so no I know they've I know different than you are Okay, yeah Y'all have to be one that And that's the same pairs to you But That doesn't make me a bad person No It's not my kids

21:29They can The daddy's bad person In my family My wife They can their husband's a bad person That's what it comes down to, Mr. Byrd If you're not a bad person We know that But right now, all that we have Is to take her side For And that's put in you as a terrible person And that's all these people are going to hear Except he's saying Wouldn't he Didn't do it Get no out of that For no evidence Prove it And then only Will you prove it And I'm backed into a corner And I've got no other options Then I'll say I did If you're an outside person You see somebody do that Would you going to think You're going to think That man is not sorry That man's going to do it again And the only reason he finally That step to it was because he knew He had no other options That's the only reason And that person there There's no sympathy There's no comfort in the process

22:30And to be thrown out The f**k balls for all we care Get rid of them That's for the less person we need in this world What's with those people? Play You know what You'll get on the stand And point you out and say He's the one that did it He did this to me We're going to show pictures of what happened We're going to listen to her story About what happened We're going to present the evidence That we're probably going to find here In a short while Against you And You're going to get better And say I don't know what she's talking about It wasn't me I walked back home That's it I don't know what else to tell you Other than it's my word against hers Take that I tell you what's going to happen to you A jury member is going to sit there and listen to that And go He's full of crap He's lying He's lying just like he lied to those detectives Right there And if that's what you want to do My all means That's fine Because I'll tell you what Challenge accepted If Ernest Pine wasn't going to talk

23:31The evidence would do the talking For him I mean, what more do they even need though Linda wrote his name in blood I mean, like if I knew they weren't And she's telling any living soul She came in contact with Of course, she was airlifted off That it was him But like, you heard the man He framed this as a He said she said situation And we unfortunately live in a world That requires a hell of a lot more than the word of a woman So buckle up Let's go get that irrefutable proof That no one can argue with Starting with Ernest's own body By the time their interview with him ended They had a warrant to search him And collect his DNA And while he sat in that room talking to them He had this cut on his thumb And scratches on his lower back And blood on his watch And more smeared on one of his shoes The shoes he is wearing And back at Ernest's house They find that 22 caliber handgun That he told them was in the toolbox

24:31In the basement There is still blood on that And it is jammed just like Linda said It turns out that it jammed Because Ernest loaded it with the wrong ammo But the ammo that they found Matched the 22 caliber round Still lodged in Linda's utility room wall Ernest also had multiple hunting nights In his place One of which had human blood still on it And there were sandals With blood still on them too That matched a tread of a bloody Footprint found at the crime scene And not just like in her house in general At the entrance of the utility room Where Linda was attacked They collected zip ties That matched what Linda described In her account Along with green rope tied into a noose And even more smudges of blood around his house In her home They also took into evidence The multiple items That were used to sexually assault her And make no mistake Ernest can sell his bullshit story All he wants that if he didn't use his penis

25:32Like does that really count as assault? Yes Absolutely And the detectives might have been trying to like play along To get him to confess But they agreed too Because Anyone Anyone who hears what he did with those objects Knows what a sick and twisted monster Ernest actually is And the fact that he couldn't use his limp dick Doesn't change a thing for me Now Linda had to undergo In almost 19 hours surgery Where she needed about 17 pints of blood For a blood transfusion And hundreds of stitches Her husband told us that Doctors said the knife missed her vital organs by millimeters And I tell you all of this Linda's story, the details of it Not to be overly graphic for entertainment or shock value We asked Linda's permission to go into detail And she allowed it because She And we want you to know Exactly who Ernest Pine is She and her family want you to really understand What he is capable of

26:32And what kind of threat that he could be To other women out there Because At Ernest indictment hearing in 2008 The one where he gets slapped with seven charges Linda's family learns For the first time That she may not have been his first victim Now Linda and her husband they didn't go to that She was still recovering So her husband's dad went in their place And so he was the one who first felt This big mix of emotions Thrilled as he came in That this man would be facing real charges And then horror When the strangest thing happened Right before the hearing started Something that you won't find And any of the case files or reporting Linda's father-in-law happened to sit right behind This guy at the hearing that he didn't know And this guy turned around and asked him If this was the courtroom that Ernest Pine was going to be in Linda's father-in-law said yes And went on to explain Linda's case a little

27:33And the next thing that came out of the other man's mouth Set a chilling and ominous tone For the next year to follow While they waited for a trial According to Linda's family The other man said that he was there for his Daughter-in-law too Because he believed 16 years before Linda's attack Ernest murdered her Linda's father-in-law was shocked to hear this I mean Ernest had never been convicted of any other crimes Let alone murder And the truth is as far as I can tell For all of the years before this Ernest was never even a suspect in this other woman's case The only reason this other man learned about him And knew to show up to this hearing Was because allegedly That man said a state trooper called him The night before this indictment hearing And described how Linda was found And when he heard the details It was almost unbelievable So for police to call this guy I mean that means they must be seeing the similarities too

28:35They're hard to miss And police later said as much to local press And when our team dug into her case I was shocked at what they found So this other woman was 29 year old Elena Sanchez Hawkins And 16 years before Linda's attack And just an hour away from Ruff River Lake In Elizabethtown, Kentucky Elena was raising two little boys with her husband Mike The date was January 8th 1992 And that day started off like any other Elena woke up her eight year old for school Made him breakfast, walked him out to the front porch To watch him get on his bus at around 7am Her husband Mike was already at work But he called like he did every morning to check in And make sure the morning was going smoothly And on that 7am call, everything was fine But an hour or two later Elena's sister told us that Mike called his wife back Because he had won some radio contest And gotten a free dinner He was excited about it, wanted to tell her about it But when he called the phone was just ringing And ringing and ringing with no answer Which was odd

29:36I mean Elena worked mostly nights at a gas station So she could be home with their three-year-old son During the day, so she usually was there to pick up So he tried calling back again And this time the call was picked up But it wasn't Elena on the other end It was his three-year-old's voice that he heard And Mike's like, okay, hey, put mom on the phone And what his son said next is still burned into my brain Mama's bleeding I don't think Mike's brain tried to make excuses He didn't ask more questions He just immediately left work and raced home to a scene That I am sure continued to haunt him throughout his life Elena was lying, half on the couch, covered in blood With her hands tied behind her back And her throat was slit from ear to ear And breath, there was truly blood everywhere Now thankfully, their son had been left physically unharmed So Mike scooped him up and called 911 The crime in 92 Elizabeth Town was just as shocking

30:37As Linda's would eventually be in Rough River Lake in 2008 It didn't matter that this was a bigger city This just didn't happen here And police were quickly stumped by the crime Now it seemed like Elena knew her killer Because there was no forced entry And even though this was a pretty rural neighborhood Where people didn't always lock their doors A family member told us that Elena usually did Especially when Mike was gone They also remembered there being glass in the door And there was definitely a window next to the door So Elena would have been able to see Whoever was on the other side It's not like it was just like a solid wall And she was blindly opening Right And also nothing seemed to be taken from the house So killing Elena seemed to be the only goal But there was no one in Elena's life who raised suspicions We know obviously they looked at Mike Because as we know they always checked the husband But he had a salad alibi He was at work So he was cleared pretty quickly And police didn't believe that he had anything to do with her death Not that he just didn't do it He didn't arrange it nothing

31:38And as they made their way through others close to the family No suspects emerged Or at least none that have ever been reported on Or that the family knew about Because the cases still unsolved All of our records requests and interview requests Were denied by law enforcement And did her sons see anything? Mike's brother told us That at some point in the morning The son had pulled up a chair in the kitchen To get a snack out of the fridge Or like off the counter or something And in that moment The little boy remembered seeing a man in the house Now we weren't able to talk to Elena's younger son So exactly what he saw the man Doing if he even remembers is unclear But it must have been something that spooked him Because one of Mike's brothers told us That eventually he went into a bedroom And hid inside a toy box But you think if it was someone that the family knew Even at three he might have been able to like Recognize them or remember who they were Yeah I mean like my daughters is coming out of the three stage I think she could But like also our brains are capable of shielding A lot to like protect us from trauma So who knows at that young of an age

32:41What about any neighbors around I mean this is happening in the morning On a weekday people are Driving to work, out and about Like there's people around That's insane This crime was so bold According to a local paper called The News Enterprise Investigators believe that she died Sometime between 7am and 10am And I mean we looked up her address And from what we could tell It was kind of a rural area Outside of town The houses were pretty spread apart So again, bold for time of day Like people could just come by Mailman whatever But I do think that like this attacker Was protected in the fact that like There was not like a next door neighbor The way there are And like a lot of suburbs that you see But even though the neighbors were spread apart Like police talk to as many people as they could They even set up a roadblock To question anyone who drove past Elena's house In the morning on their way to work And from all of that They did find someone who came forward Saying that they saw a Black Nissan Datson pickup truck Parked in Elena's driveway Now they didn't see a person or anything

33:43But the truck is important Because as far as we can tell Police were never able to connect anyone In her circle Or beyond To that kind of car So Eventually It was considered that this Could be everyone's nightmare scenario Just this random Roaming psychopath Who targeted Elena for Who knows what reason Was it just that day that he saw her Had he been Watching her Now if you have her loved ones told us That in the weeks leading up to her murder Elena did mention this weird guy That was watching her during her night shifts At the gas station she worked at nearby During her shifts Elena sat in one of those like Glass boxes in the middle People could like drive up to her If they wanted to buy something And this weird guy would drive by But he would never Talk to her or anything like that He would just Stare at her Now everyone we talked to said Elena wasn't somebody who got scared easily And she could stand up for herself But this guy freaked her out

34:43Enough that even though The door to her box was locked She would call Mike and his brothers And ask them to come down when this guy showed up But every single time they got to the gas station The guy was gone Now As far as everyone remembers Now Elena never described this guy Or what he was driving And it doesn't seem like police Were ever able to track this guy down either But it's the gas station guy somehow figured out Where she lived And showed up at her house Like he said like she could see Out in front of the door before she opened it I doubt she would have opened the door For someone that was already keeping her I don't think so So circling this back to Linda What are all the similarities And what like if anything Is different in these two situations Okay so first of all Everyone we talked to Who has seen both Elena and Linda Told us that they looked a lot alike Both women were dark hair Tan short like around five feet tall Both women were bound Both had their throats cut

35:44Now as far as we know Elena wasn't tied using zip ties One of Mike's brothers remembers That it was a cord from the blind So Her attacker seems a little less prepared Than Ernest was with Linda 16 years later And I can't tell you if the same type of weapon was used Because just like Ernest took the knife with him Elena's attacker did the same thing Also they were each attacked in their home A child was present in each case Which might be a coincidence But we know in Linda's case That Ernest used her granddaughter As leverage to make her comply Could Elena's killer have done the same thing Like I wonder if a child in the home Was something they were looking for Rather than just like Like knowing they could use that kind of against their victim Rather than just like something that will happen to be there Right Now we know that Linda was sexually assaulted But it's not totally clear if Elena was I mean according to what KSP Had told other reporters in the past she was But Elena's brother told us something totally different

36:45He said that he talked to someone in the coroner's office Who told him that based on what she read in the report She didn't think Elena was sexually assaulted Well who's definition are we using here too Right because you also have Ernest over here saying That what he did to Linda wasn't sexual assault And we know that's total BS Right and I've seen before people Even like in an official capacity Interpret like a lack of semen as a side So yes If she too was assaulted with an object My question would be what's their trauma left behind Well I feel like the one thing that seems obvious Is that they're for sure was no semen Or we'd be talking about like DNA All these years later right That might actually be wrong Which I know sounds bananas But without police cooperation I can't really tell 30 years later So like I said There is old reporting that has KSP saying That she was assaulted And they have DNA they said in that same stuff They don't explicitly say that it was from the sexual assault kit And in talking with Elena's family so many years later

37:46Like different people remember different things One person remembered that the DNA at the crime scene Was semen Another said that they thought it was maybe like skin From underneath Elena's fingernails They had something Whatever they had Whatever they were able to do with that in the early 90s It didn't go anywhere And so Elena's case went cold quickly Now in 2004 Elena's husband Mike ended up passing away From surgery complications And that same year Police told the family that they had stopped Testing the DNA they had Because they didn't want to destroy the little bit they had left So Elena's loved ones Including her kids who now have lost both parents so young They were just left hoping that someday Somehow they would get the answers that they've been waiting so long for So four years after that When they get word about Linda's attack And Ernest They get this surge of hope Maybe this is it

38:46And this is when I told you that police came out in the press And even they said that they saw the same similarities This is why Elena's father-in-law went to Ernest indictment hearing Where he met Linda's father-in-law And he probably planned to attend the trial But a trial never happened In the 10 months after the attack on Linda Ernest ends up seeing the writing on the wall And just like detectives, probes, and Johnson said he would do Ernest waited till he was backed into a corner before he finally admitted what he'd done On June 17th, 2009, about 10 months after Linda was attacked Ernest pleads guilty to 1st degree burglary, attempted murder, 1st degree rape, and 1st degree sawdemy Kidnapping, 1st degree criminal mischief, and 2nd degree assault Now the judge gives him sentences for all of those things But allows him to serve them concurrently instead of consecutively

39:51So that means he isn't stacking time for each count back to back He gets to serve one term the longest one 20 years You know, it never ceases to amaze me how you get a lighter sentence for attempted murder Like just trying to murder someone Because you like didn't do it right? Right, like you told her she was going to die that day You kept coming back to the room and stabbing her to make sure she was dead It was kind of multiple attempted murders of one person And just because by some miracle she survived You get out of prison to maybe do this again to somebody Like what are we- It doesn't make any sense What are we doing here? And it is the strangest thing to me Because once he goes away for his attack on Linda All of the talk about the similarities to Elena's case Just stops And to date No official connection between Ernest and Elena has ever been made Wait, so it wasn't his DNA? I didn't say that I don't know if it was because police wouldn't talk to us

40:54And even the family has never- Like Elena's family has never been able to get a straight answer about this either They have asked and they just keep getting the same party line that they have gotten For years This case is unsolved And open and investigators are waiting for technology to move forward Before they can retest that DNA I feel like if they actually had a DNA profile to compare They would at least come out and confirm it's not him, right? You would think But at least one family member told us that they remember Police testing the DNA they had against a few people back in the day Now they don't know who was tested or cleared from that And we couldn't confirm that so I don't know Like there is something so confusing About the DNA stuff in Elena's case to me Like something does not feel right Well I kind of wonder if maybe they're waiting Till closer to the time that Ernest is set to be released Like that gives them kind of a ton of time to make a really solid case against him If they think it's him like he's safely behind bars He can't hurt anybody else They have this like chance to really develop

41:57He was safely behind bars This is that's past tense This is what I'm saying about this episode This is how I got put on this case Ernest got an early release this summer Early release this summer he's out On August 19th, 2025 Ernest Pine was released on parole After serving only 17 of his 20-year sentence for Linda's attack Yeah I was trying to do the math I'm not good at it How is that even possible? How does a guy like this who did something like that? Get out To me you already got a gift by getting to serve them Right like just certainly Right exactly He's already getting kind of a pass So he got to serve them concurrently And under Kentucky's violent offender law You can be considered for parole after you serve 85% of your sentence In this case 20-year sentence has about 17 years Now our sources said that Ernest spent a lot of time like leading Bible study and Sunday school while he was in prison too

43:00Which they believe the parole board Like like Model considered Yeah when they approved his release Ashley I'm sorry I don't care how many Bible studies he led You don't get to torture a woman and then shave literal years Off your prison time Just because you said your prayers Amen And by the way It's like Oh sure, forgiveness, second chances, whatever But I have a hard time believing that Ernest Found God in prison Because he knew the guy's number before he went away A source close to Ernest's own family Who asked to stay anonymous Told us that at some point after Ernest moved to Elisabeth Town Like way back in 1986 We're talking even before Elena's case He and his wife joined the praise band at this mega church A mega church that oh by the way is located in Elisabeth Town Just two and a half miles away from the gas station Where Elena worked according to her brother-in-law Wait, so Ernest for sure has a connection to the area

44:02Where Elena lived back in 1992 Yeah We learned that he lived in the same town as Elena When she was murdered in 1992 Not just before in 1992 And the potential ties don't stop there So when we found out that Ernest lived in Elisabeth Town in 1992 Right away we began to wonder Did he know Elena? Yeah It doesn't seem like it Or at least it does not seem like she knew him But then we talked to that source who was close to Ernest's family And they had a few theories on how Ernest and Elena's paths could have crossed So Ernest was in the army which is what brought him to Kentucky He was actually stationed at Fort Knox before he retired And then he moved into a house only about five miles away from Elena's And our source told us that after Ernest retired He was having a really hard time finding a job So for a while he delivered pizzas for dominoes And of course like we don't know where he delivered pizzas or anything like that

45:02I do imagine that you called dominoes and were like I can't We cannot confirm But are the source that we talked to kind of has always wondered If he could have maybe delivered a pizza to the Hawkins house or in their neighborhood Like that's a bit of a stretch to me This is less so though The source also said that when Ernest started working at a nearby break factory He would work the night shift and then get off early in the morning And remember when he was arrested after Linda's assault A deputy said that he smelled alcohol on his breath in the patrol car, right? Yeah Well our source went on to claim that Ernest had a drinking problem That he hid from his family So he would usually drink during the day after his shift And did while they were all out of the house But Elizabeth Town was a dry town at the time So you could only buy alcohol in Boston, Kentucky Which was like the next town over And if what our source told us is true Which we have not been able to confirm yet To get to Boston from the break factory

46:04Or his house Ernest would have had to have drive right past Elena's house And that probably would have been right around the time That she was putting her son on the bus to school in the morning And remember that truck that someone saw in her driveway the day she died Mm, the black dead son Well, our source told us that Ernest had bought his daughter a tan or beige Chevy S10s sometime before that Now if you look at the photos in S10 looks really similar to a Datsun Yeah, but I don't know if you could confuse those colors though, right? Big difference, but I did look it up And sunrise that day would have been at around 8am So if Elena is attacked sometime like between 7 and 10, 7, 30 and 10 It may have still been dark when that witness spotted the truck I mean, yeah, it seems worth tracking down the truck at least just to like Get eyes on it, feel like Yeah, I don't know if police ever like did Because when a reporter looked into this and shared our sources information with current detectives

47:08We were told that they still have not followed up Wouldn't they have talked to his family though at some point during the investigation into Linda's case? They tried So in our records request, there was one audio file from when detectives went to the home of Ernest's daughter And her husband, they didn't want to talk then And they basically direct police to Ernest Lawyer some guy named Roger and his associates Because it sounds like when they tried to answer questions before people in their family were not happy with them Take a listen Right, and Ernest is your family? Yes Okay, all right What we wanted to do is to talk to you and your mom for a while We would actually, if Roger or if you all have an attorney representing you all We didn't do that basically You know, what I told you the other morning and everything at 7am

48:10And hopefully we were wanting to be able to just help you and make Answer a few more of your questions and just find out basically we just don't know why This has really happened and I think that's what we're trying to find out We all have a good why I mean, we know the who, what, when, where? We just don't know why And you know, we just basically just want to find out if your dad had any mental issues in the past or don't any medications Or as a history of alcoholism or has been abusive in the past Or anything like this, just small stuff like that for your family Just basically doing your mom questions, you can answer And that's really that all it was Okay, sure Well, I'm basically getting the cap of paper from my face And what about this? But let me just get back to you talk about that and then if I get it I'll call you all back and let you down As far as I can tell, Ernest's daughter did not call them back And actually out of all of our attempts to reach his children or ex-wife or him directly so he could respond to allegations

49:15This was the only response we got A voicemail Yes, I'm calling on behalf of the letter you sent to Ernie Pine Your information is inaccurate He is not interested in speaking with either of you on anything And please stop harassing him Thank you Who was that? We don't know, she didn't say Maybe someone close to him? Could be a family member? I mean, we were told that Ernest's family stood by him after Linda's attack Stood by him How? I mean, like, they might not even believe that he did it How can you, like, make yourself believe that there's a literal mountain of evidence I don't know I know, I like, I get how hard it would be to accept that your husband or your dad did something that heinous But there's also a bit of a line for me, like denial, trauma, families of predators can be victims too, do not get me wrong But when you help shield them from accountability, that is when I think you're crossing over

50:18What do you mean? Well, so Linda's attack left her with serious medical debt Before she was even discharged, they had a quarter of a million dollar lien on their house And it took her husband ten years to pay that off And like, I just want to take a second because this is the side of these cases that does not get talked about enough in my opinion Survivors don't just have their physical well being taken from them And their emotional and mental health totally wrecked their safety taken away Like, on top of all of that It's like the logistics of it They often have to pay Yeah, literal money for what their attacker did with money they often don't have A crime like this seriously just like rips apart every aspect of your life Yeah, but I think about in this case like can't they sue Ernest? Like he had money, right? Yeah, we were told by our source that he did But Linda's husband told us that none of that money has gone to her So this is what played out So Linda had to wait for the criminal trial to end or like all of that before they could actually file a civil suit

51:22And her husband told us that during that time Ernest and his wife got divorced and his assets were all transferred to her So from what he can tell, all Ernest has now to his name is his pension which I guess is protected Which I didn't know that that's how it worked but that's still his And Linda's husband told us that he did try to fight for that money, money that Linda deserves But they just couldn't keep up the fight because lawyers cost too much Yeah, you need money to get the money Yeah, now on the one hand what I'll say is like in any other scenario like this where say the wife and family are blindsided It would be like the wife's whole life savings up in smoke too And I'm not saying the perps family has to be left destitute if they did not know anything or did not participate Like, but neither should Linda Right, like you said earlier there are lots of victims in this case Yeah, and I haven't seen anything in the source material to suggest that they got a dime to help So it feels to me like everyone on Ernest's side chose to support Ernest and protect themselves

52:27And as cruel as the financial burden has been on Linda and her family the emotional toll is seriously just as real Linda lives with physical and emotional challenges from the trauma like I said She is now back in therapy because Ernest has been released and it has brought all of this back up for her I mean ever since that night 2008 Linda has never been left alone She is always with her husband or a trusted friend or family member And her husband has faced his own challenges too He had a stroke in 2013 and his doctors told him that all of this stress and worry that he carries could have been a factor But you know what he told us that he loves Linda They have been married for 47 years now And he would do anything to protect her and their family When Linda's husband went to one of Ernest's hearings after his parole He said that in his opinion, Ernest didn't even show any remorse Even after all these years And he has never made any kind of formal apology to Linda or her family

53:30One of those hearings was about a no-contact stay away order Which meant that Ernest couldn't be anywhere near Linda or her granddaughter for like 10 years But Linda's husband told us that when the judge asked him if he understood that, he didn't even answer So the judge had to ask him again, like, do you understand that? And he says, like, yeah, I got it Which to Linda's family felt like he was not taking it seriously And so now, that neighbor who left Linda for dead lives just about an hour away from her Even though he is 75 years old now, we know what he's capable of And there is so much anger and fear that you can feel from everyone who has been affected by this case And Elena's family lives with that same anger and fear because Her killer, whoever he is, is still out there somewhere Elena didn't get the chance to name her killer And her family told us the little that's out there about her doesn't even begin to paint a picture of who she was

54:35So I do want to share a few of their memories They said Elena never met a stranger like she loved people and she loved to sing That's actually her voice you're hearing from a recording that her sister shared with us She was her son's best friend and the sister everyone wishes they had And girl was 4-11 but she may as well have been like 8 feet tall Like nothing scared her, she never backed down from a fight to protect the people she loved And Elena's son told us that he has never given up on getting justice for his mom And until the day he dies, he is going to keep looking for her killer Maybe that killer things he'll never be caught But if someone out there listening knows something that can change that, you need to come forward now You can either call the Kentucky State Police Post 4 or you can email us Tips at audiochuck.com and we'll forward it on

55:36We'll be putting KSP Post 4 information and our tips email in the show notes If you or someone you know has experienced sexual violence, you can contact Reigns National Sexual Abuse hotline We'll have their number and other resources for survivors of sexual assault in our show notes You can find all the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunky.com And if you want to listen to more episodes like this one and all of our episodes completely add free, be sure to join the fan club You'll get early access to new episodes every week and bonus content every month And contents like actual episodes you guys And you can follow us on Instagram at crimejunkypodcast We'll be back next week with a brand new episode Music

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