The Bad War | DeProgram with Ted Rall and John Kiriakou

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Good morning.

Thanks for joining us.

This is Deep Program with Ched Rawl and John Kiriaku.

It's Thursday, March 26th.

Good morning, John.

Good morning, Ted.

How are you doing?

I'm doing great, John.

So we're going to be talking about the war.

There's new polling about it.

I don't think the numbers are going to come as much of a surprise to anyone, but we

should talk about them.

TSA lines are longer than ever, despite, or perhaps, because of ice going to the airports.

There's been an attack on a Russian ship in the Bosphorus.

We'll talk about that.

I'm dying to talk to you about this Patrice Lemumba trial.

Yeah, how do you like it is?

It's such an interesting story.

And obviously, with your past, I'm dying to hear what you have to say about that.

It's in Debbie Neumann's 93-year-old guy.

He's the last man alive who had anything to do with the killing of Patrice Lemumba, who

was, of course, the very charismatic leader of Congo murdered in 1961, in part with CIA

cooperation.

So lots to talk about today.

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Okay.

That's a lot of long-windedness, John.

So we have some, let's see, do we have any left over?

If we have any left overs, Robbie from last, from yesterday, let us know.

But in the meantime, what do you want to talk about, John?

Iran, airlines, tanker.

Let's talk about the war.

There's a piece in the Washington Post today that, you know, just kind of, just lays it

all out, that the Gulf countries want the war to end.

But not yet.

They want the war to end after we blast the Iranian some more, some more and make them

weaker so that they offer up more concessions.

And yeah, my view is not cool, you know, not cool at all.

But that was also the, that was also the feeling that I got the last time I was in Dubai, that

they wanted, they wanted to make sure that Iran can never pose a threat to them, which

is funny because they have a few million people and Iran has 92 or 93 million people.

And it would also account for the comment that Muhammad bin Salman made when he was coming

out of the White House the other day, that he wants the United States just destroy Iran.

And so we're a public opinion, and we've been talking about this a lot on the show, we're

a public opinion here in the United States is such that we don't want to fight this war.

This was a war of choice.

Our Gulf allies now are saying, well, you started this, you've got to finish it and you've

got to finish it in a big way.

So I think there won't be any quick end to the war.

Oh, there certainly won't be a quick end.

I mean, we've seen that in the, there's a, a, a cousin wider than the Grand Canyon,

separation, the negotiating positions, the Iranians are basically like, you apologize,

you make reparations, you promise to never, ever attack us ever again in perpetuity.

Meanwhile, we're like, give up all your nuclear stuff, stop supporting, Hezbollah and Hamas.

The Iranians are saying, you, you stop messing around with Hezbollah and Hamas.

It's like, couldn't be further apart.

John, isn't it like a completely un, let's set aside like the not cool thing?

Isn't it kind of objectively impossible to make for the Gulf states to say, to, for

there to be a position where Iran would never oppose a theoretical threat, not possible,

not possible unless you work for the American Enterprise Institute.

In which case, you have already come up with plans.

You have already drawn up a map that shows Iran being broken into five or six small countries.

That's even a congoal.

But even so, one of those, I mean, that, that degree of instability, sort of like a Balkan,

a Balkanization of Iran into like sort of a post-Ugislawia type situation.

Yeah.

I mean, one or more of those, you know, romp states could still pose a threat to its neighbors.

Those weapons would still, that used to belong to the Islamic Republic of Iran would belong to

the new Republic of Kurdistan or whatever.

I mean, it's not like that stuff goes away.

All you're doing is fracturing, you're not, unless you kill all 92 million Iranians,

you're not going to eliminate the threat from Iran.

You have to, these are the pieces of the neighborhood you live in, you live in that,

you have to get along with them.

Yeah, that's the bottom line.

You're going to have to figure something out because conflict isn't going to solve anything.

It's just going to make it worse.

I mean, in the meantime, Israel this morning announced that it had killed

the commander of the Iranian Navy, and somehow magically that is supposed to open up

the Strait of Hormuz.

They actually said that.

We killed the head of the Navy, so now the Strait of Hormuz is going to open.

It's like, what?

How do you figure that?

Because there's only one person who runs the Iranian Navy.

And now it's all over, and they're all going to basically go,

does not come to you, does not come to you, we cannot do Navy stuff anymore.

ridiculous.

I mean, the thing is, I mean, historically, when you kill, when you degrade a regime,

when you bomb a regime, they tend to harden, and they tend to become more radical artists,

and more militants, and more defiant.

That is exactly right.

So, I mean, so that's almost certainly what we're going to see here.

Let's talk about the polling before we take some questions.

Yeah.

So, there's now a bunch of polls, this is like the third or fourth on a

stream, but it's only been, we're now in week four of the war.

Most Iranians already say it was a mistake, 59%.

That means that includes a significant number of registered Republicans,

61% approve of Trump's.

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Handling of the war, and this part is fascinating.

More Americans currently say that the U.S. is losing than winning.

You know, so much winning, we can hardly stand it.

45% say the U.S. is losing 25% say it's winning,

and I guess the rest don't have an opinion about it or don't think it's either way.

John, these are numbers that you don't usually see until years into an unpopular conflict.

And I'll add something.

In today's, I think it was the times, let me look real quick.

No, it's the, yeah, it's the times.

So there were classified briefings on Capitol Hill yesterday.

Mike Rogers, the chairman of the Armed Services Committee in the House,

came out of one of the briefings and said that the Pentagon had failed to provide even the

most basic details about the scope and direction of the war.

And he says, quote, we want to know more about what's going on,

and we're just not getting answers.

On the other side of Capitol Hill, Roger Wicker, the senator from Mississippi,

who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, said, let me put it this way.

He was talking about Mike Rogers.

Let me put it this way.

I can see why he said that.

These are not just senior Republicans, Ted.

These are the senior Republicans that are supposed to be helping the Pentagon prosecute the war.

And they're coming out and saying publicly, we have no idea why we're at war.

The Pentagon has no plan either to fight the war or to get us out of the war.

We don't know what's going on.

So if Republicans on Capitol Hill don't know what's going on,

how in the world are the American people going to support a conflict like this?

When I was at the CIA, we went through Afghanistan, we went through Iraq,

we went through Somalia, we went through Panama and Grenada and all these other places.

There was always an explanation for why we were doing what we were doing.

Even if the explanation was spacious.

Here, there's not even an explanation.

Well, we've gotten conflating, you remind me a little bit of Afghanistan in the early days,

right? I mean, first it was like, well, we have to find Osama bin Laden, although

the considerable evidence he was in Pakistan.

Then it was like, okay, well, we have to make sure Afghanistan never becomes a hot bed of

Islamic terrorism again or has any training camps, although really hardly had any training camps

by 9-11, those mostly in Pakistan, too.

And then it became a way out.

We have to stand up this government that we installed for some reason.

Then it became like we're going to liberate Afghan women.

It just kept changing.

And then it was like, oh, the government's route that we installed is really corrupt.

We have to show them to be less corrupt than we have in 20 years and it never got better.

Yeah, that's absolutely true.

John, you're part of, you were part of this infrastructure for many years.

Who's in charge? Is it the DOD? Is it CIA? Is it someone else?

Who's in charge?

The CIA is a policy support organization.

So state, NSC and DOD come up with the policy and the CIA supports it, whatever it is.

Yesterday on my, on my TV show, deep state, I had to stop and think of it.

Everything begins with a D in my life, deep state.

I interviewed Judge Andrew Napolitano about this very issue.

And I said, Judge Napolitano, you co-hosted a TV show on Fox every day for 10 years with Pete

Higgseth. I said, what do you think of Pete Higgseth's performance as Secretary of Defense?

And he said, Pete Higgseth is an incompetent boob and a serial killer.

He's a nice guy, he says, but he's an incompetent boob and a serial killer.

What does he mean by serial killer?

Well, I asked him because I thought he was talking about Iran. He was talking about these

so-called drug boats where he's just murdering people, wantonly, half of them are fishermen,

innocent fishermen trying to make a living, just murdering them or blowing up the boat.

And if somebody survives, these circle the drone back and you blow them up again.

And it's just murder.

There's no other way to describe it.

It's gratuitous.

It is. It's gratuitous.

So, I mean, normally, so war hems come out of the DOD.

I mean, look, that's a big ass building. I haven't been inside, but I've seen the outside.

How many, I mean, there must be like whole departments who are charged with,

you know, coming up with and articulating war hems.

I mean, we all know historically they have historians working at DOD.

I mean, that this is a requirement for successful conflict.

You have to have a clear set of objectives.

You have to.

Otherwise, you know, the military loses.

There's mission creep.

You lose track of what you were trying to do.

And you communicate to the public who's support you need.

What do you know about that?

I don't we have that. Why aren't these people, are they not being given the assignments?

Are they too, do they not know how to do the assignments?

This is the change in American politics,

where instead of having three co-equal branches of government,

we have the executive and then Congress is somehow subservient to the executive.

You know, when Jimmy Carter was president,

Tip O'Neill, although he was a Democrat, was as much of a problem for Jimmy Carter

as the courts were, because Tip O'Neill recognized that Congress was a co-equal branch of government.

And here we've got, you know, whether there's a Democrat in the White House and Democrats

run the House in the Senate or a Republican in the White House and Republicans run the House in

the Senate, they see themselves as as existing for the purpose of supporting the president

and ensuring that his policies are enacted into law.

That's just not at all what the founding fathers intended.

No, it's not and and frankly, it's not a good idea to bring it in this respect with what

bad policy, very bad policy. Yeah, the founders were wise in that respect.

One last question before we go to some questions, John, unless you want to keep talking.

Carg Island, that all eyes are on Carg Island. That seems to be like the, you know,

where the administration wants to pin all of their hopes. I would say odds are better than 50%

that the United States is going to try to bomb and then capture it and then claim that that's

some sort of win. But then bodies are going to start coming home.

I mean, you agree that we're likely to do that? Yeah, yeah, I do. I think that's the case.

And, you know, it's a miracle so far, Ted, that only, well, what they're telling us is that only

13 Americans have died. If that's true, and I think it's probably not, we're very lucky.

And who knows how many Israelis have died? Yeah, they won't tell us. That's highly

classified. That is, to the point where if any reporter reveals it, they face 10 years in prison.

Is that true about foreign reporters as well? Yes. So if you're working for CNN, and you're

in, and you're in Tel Aviv, you could face prison time in that's right. And that's why when CNN

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It says in the corner of the screen, cleared by Israeli sensors.

They should just boycott Israel. I would literally, as a journalist, never report from there,

just based on that. It's ridiculous. Yeah. I would boycott it.

There's no point. I mean, there's just no point. I would boycott it.

Would that be a question? Oh, we do questions. Let's do questions.

We've got answers. Okay, here we go. Alex Brindlow, thanks for the $9.99

British pounds. With invasion assistance being quoted as unnamed regional state,

they would say Israel, if it was them, could all the focus on CARG be a misdirect for the tunes,

then get UAE assistance in return? That's a great observation. That answer is a hearty yes.

I think it is. I think it is about the tunes. I think that we're going to do this as a favor to

the... I'm proud to say, you know, I told you part of the story about the tunes the other day.

When I was back from Bahrain, it was 1996, and I was temporarily for one year,

asked to cover Bahrain again before I moved back onto Iraq. And, you know, I was bored,

and so they asked me to mentor this young analyst. She was so wickedly smart. It was scary.

She had just graduated from the University of Virginia and just brilliant. And so,

Iran invaded the tombs one day. And, like I said the other day, nobody, there are no human beings

on the tombs. They're just empty sand, you know, sand above the water and the Persian Gulf.

So, I said to her kind of offhandedly, nobody will ever take the tombs back from the Iranians.

And she said, why? And I said, because the tombs belonged to Sharja. And Abu Dhabi has all the oil,

so they don't care. Dubai has all the business and the banking. Billions of dollars of which

they do with Iran. They don't want to upset the apple cart just so that the

Sharjans get their two uninhabited islands back. So, the Sharjans are shit out of luck. They're not

getting the tombs back. Later that morning, she was in the boss's office. She came back and sat

down and she said, hey, I just resigned. And I was like, what? Why would you do that? And she said,

when you were talking about the tombs earlier, I realized I would never know as much about the

Persian Gulf as you do. Oh my God. So, I quit. That's hilarious and sad. Well, she became a very

successful real estate investor with her brother and moved back to Vermont. And now she's in Florida.

We've stayed in touch all these years. But yeah, the tombs have been on my mind since 1986.

That's that is hilarious. Manchild, thanks for the two bucks. Unsecured airport lines are

critical soft targets. Well, are they? I mean, I guess they are. Can untrained ice agents and

limited viper teams effectively deter high-level terror or mass shootings during this funding crisis

and active war? I mean, that is it. I mean, this is okay. You're going to have to help me with

this. Was it Athens that the airport was attacked by terrorists in like the 80s? Yes.

And Robert Dean Steedham was executed and thrown out of the plane. Yeah.

So, so the point is obviously it is true. I mean, you know, airports are soft targets and

you know, you could easily see any number of scenarios that I'm not going to want to give

anyone any ideas that they couldn't get themselves. Go ahead, John. And you remember Carlos,

the jackal did simultaneous attacks on Rome and Vienna airport where they just walked in the

main entrance to the airport and just opened fire with machine guns and killed, you know, two dozen

people. And it's very hard to protect. I think it's impossible, right? So the point is if

something like that were to happen, right? So ice is there. These are not, first of all, these are

not like elite. This is not seal team six, right? I mean, that's right. These are, you know,

they're dorks in many cases. I mean, they wouldn't really keep the airport safe. I mean, the main

function here has been that they've been adding an additional setting up a card table and adding an

extra security line at the airports where they've been deployed. Yes. And they're demanding proof

of citizenship, which by the way, to travel domestically, no American has to have. So, you know,

I mean, I just wonder how that all plays out except that we know that TSA has handed ice all the

passenger lists at these airports so that, you know, the ice knows who to expect. And when you're,

when you show up if they're looking for you, bam, they nail you as soon as you show your

enemy. Yes. This purpose is, um, so I guess what's the answer here? I mean, there's not going to be

can untrained ice agents deter effectively deter anything? No. No, right?

No, it's not about keeping us safe. Absolutely not. Sorry. It's not about keeping us safe. It's

about politics. Aryan, thanks for the 1999. Hey, Jonathan, the freak, the orange freak has really

screwed shit up. Philippines secured Russian oil, Iranian Navy intel chief killed by IDF.

With the fantasy negotiations, I like that. Is there any way that the US can recover from this?

Are we cooked? Thanks. Hashtag pardon John. I mean, obviously, the United States has recovered from

many very bad things in the past. So I'm sure we could recover. But it's bad. It's bad. It is,

it's bad. Um, sure. Of course, we can recover, but it's going to take a lot of time. Especially in

the Gulf, you know, this has really rattled their, their security. And as we said last week, Ted,

we have army bases in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Oman. We have our naval headquarters

in Bahrain. We have our Air Force headquarters in Qatar. And we have been utterly unable to

protect any of those countries. So why would they, why would they keep us there anyway?

Good question. When we just, our presence opens them up to attack and we can't protect them.

Let's quickly, you know, knock off this story from Turkey. So a lot of this is weird, man. A lot

of oil goes through the black sea and next to Ukraine, which is why I'm bringing up this story.

And then, you know, basically passes through the boss for us. You, when you are in Istanbul,

you'll see all these tankers parked offshore in the Sea of Mammara and then on their way into

the Mediterranean, right? I mean, so a drone yesterday, early this morning struck an, this has

happened before a Russian oil tanker. No one was hurt, but they could have been. And so this is

kind of a serious story. It's this, this was, you know, basically a Turkish flagged oil tanker. So

this is an attack effectively on Turkey. This, this was the Ukrainians, right?

It has to be. It has to be. I can't imagine it would be anybody else. There's no reason for anybody

else to have done this. So, I mean, so, so, okay, so what do the Turks do about this if anything? I

mean, that's it, you know, obviously they can't have the boss versus everybody is important to them

as the trade of war mouses to the rest of the world. I mean, they're not going to let,

can they let this pass? No, they're going to have to respond. Even if they do so clandestinely,

they're going to have to respond. What would that look like? I think we're going to see a tip for

tat response. You're going to drone our ship. That's fine. We'll drone your ship full of wheat.

You know, which people all around the world, I mean, Ukraine's the bread basket of the world,

they call it. And so much of their wheat goes to Africa and Asia. Then you drone a ship carrying

Ukrainian wheat. See how they like it. Why would the Ukrainians do that? What a stupid thing to do.

There's no, there's no strategic reason to do something like this. It's just petty harassment.

But it's the kind of petty harassment that can that can spin out of control. Yeah, I just thought

it was worth taking taking note of. Agreed. Mad napkins, thank you for signing up as a member of

the show. Elevier, Elevier, thanks for the $9.99. Vilmar, thanks for the two Canadian dollars.

Isn't there more economic downside to GCC than Iran? Oh my God, yes. By a factor of, you know,

20, absolutely yes. This is going to send him into a beast into a recession. The GCC is the

Gulf Cooperation Council made up of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and the UAE. Yeah,

this is, this is bad. Bad for them. Hey, can I interrupt you for a second too? Anytime.

Did you see manchild? Hey, Ted, do you think Trump will enlist the Cornhole killer as a secret weapon

into viewing Iran? Have you followed that, Ted? Oh my God, we did it on TMI yesterday. I couldn't get

enough of it. How does a guy who has no arms and no legs murder somebody? Well, so he, so yeah,

so there's so many questions, right? So first of all, there's, you can be a professional corn

holder. With no arms and no legs. That's a job. How do you do that? You know, I saw like, he does

like this thing. He has, he's his arms are severed here. So he has this smart. He has the upper arm.

So he takes the two arms and he goes like that. And the thing is, but John, he was driving at the

time. Yeah, he was driving a car and he shot a dude while he was driving. And then he has no arms,

no legs. And he shoots a guy while driving a car. And John, he disposed of the body. Yeah, he asked

his two passengers. There, there's two people in the back seat. They left. They were like, bye.

Yeah, yeah, we're out of here. And he dumped the body on someone's allegedly. No, no body

of someone's lawn in, I guess in Maryland or Virginia or something. Yeah, in Virginia. He's in

Albemarle County. I'm fascinated by this. I can't. And while I'm reading the Washington Post

report through the whole thing, I'm trying to envision my own mind. How, how does this work?

He has no arms and legs. How does he do this? And not just like he recently lost his arms and

legs. He was 16 months old when he got a staff infection. And they had to amputate his arms

and legs. Yes, right. Yeah. So, so he, so the thing is he must be incredibly strong. I mean,

just have you ever, I guess I shouldn't ask you this. So you can tell me, I will not answer this

question, Ted. If you ever had to move a body, I mean, like, like, it's hard. Thank God. Yeah.

That way he's like an unconscious. I had a unconscious drunken roommate in college that I had to

move. I mean, it's, I'm not weak. I had a dream. I had a dream one time that I, I had to kill

this guy. And I was in the foyer of my mom and dad's house where, where I grew up that we sold

in 2003. And I had to kill this guy. And the dead weight was so heavy, I just couldn't move the

body. And then my doorbell rang. And I opened it up and it was my best friend from high school. And

I said, Oh, Russell, I knew it was you. I knew you would help me move the body. And he said,

what are friends for? I mean, I love the fact that like, by the way, I also want to know,

was the Tesla in auto drive mode or not? Oh, I'd like to know. That's important to know. Like,

do you have, do you have one stump or whatever that's called? I don't know if there, is there a new

woke term for that? Like, so he's like steering the car. Oh, and how is he? By the way, and how is he,

gas pedal, right? Or whatever? I've never driven a Tesla. But I mean, I assume there's a power

pedal. Yeah, there is. I test drove one. Yeah. Right. I don't know. It's like, I mean, if this is

all true, I was kind of telling Manila, we should just like drop the charges because it's so awesome.

If you need to leave the guy like that behind bars, we should like recruit him into the CIA.

You can become a super killer. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Anyway, it's like, oh my God. I'm so glad that you're

into that. Irfan Sean, thanks for the 4.99 pounds. Our Iranian talks just political theater,

showing that we tried diplomacy. Yes. Or so escalation, even boots on the ground looks

justifies and with public support. All of those are correct. Yeah. The Trump administration is

not serious about negotiating. I don't think that honestly, I don't think the Iranians are either.

The Iranians don't want it. The Iranians know that what's so funny is they're fighting two

different wars. The Iranians, I think, are on the right war because that's global pressure. Agreed.

I mean, they, you know, they're not getting calls from all over the world begging them. Please stop.

But America and Netanyahu are. Yeah. Um, that's right.

Olivier, thanks for the 999. Thoughts about Iran using AI to create social media posts far more

creative than I was expecting. Modern warfare. Agreed. Any of these? These Lego things. Oh,

they're great. Brilliant. Yes. They're brilliant. And the ball stuff, like the nuclear, the

the vengeance one with the nuclear bomb. It looks like a nuclear bomb hitting the statue of liberty

that turns into the statue of ball in New York Harbor. And it's all when it's all the vengeance,

right? Like there's the there's the there's the Native American. There's like all the big,

that there's the gazin. There's the the gazins. There's the Iranian school girl. And it's all

just like about America's. It's like Howard's in like all of America's in Vietnam. Oh, yeah.

The little girl with it with her daughter in in Hiroshima. Yeah. So that would look very well

from that Kurosawa, not Kurosawa Miyazaki movie about that's an amazing film about Hiroshima. Yeah.

Yeah, no, so yeah, I mean, it's I think we're just going to see the United States isn't merely

as good at propaganda as as as the Iranians are, you know, John, I collected blood wartime propaganda

posters from like World War II, World War One. I've got two from Paul Pot downstairs in my den.

Oh, yeah. I get a State Department friend of mine who served in in Canberra.

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absolutely genius, big league reliability for any business. That's genius. Yeah, during Paul Pot

brought him back. Oh, I want to see. Are they cool? Yeah, they're cool. Yeah. I love those things.

And so, but the US in my opinion has never really been that great at propaganda posters. Yeah.

The art's not really that great. No. No. Like the commies do a great job. The Nazis did a great job.

I have one. I have one right back here. It's it's actually not not really good at all. It's

railroad men on the supply lines. Yeah, it's awful. Keep your mouth shut. It's awful. Yeah, it's

nothing to it. No, no. I have one that I have to dig up. I used to be in the background of my

old place. That was like, it was really funny. It was like, be smart. Stay dumb. And it was like

American one. It was like, you know, zip it. It was all about shutting up. Interestingly,

I've never seen any like Nazi or Soviet stuff about shutting up, even though they were repressive

societies. Yes. Yes. Maybe people there just know to shut up. Mr. Adam Smith. How much is it

John? How much does it cost to advertise with deep program and deep focused? Well, deep

focus would be John's thing. Deep program is you should talk to Robbie about deep program. I

don't have the foggiest idea. Deep focus. I think the minimum that we do right now is $6,000

a month. But that's to have, you know, the script read during the show. I have no idea what the

little banner advertisements because we don't do that. That's what he call it YouTube and rumble.

So if you want interested in deep program, reach out to Robbie West, our producer.

Robbie, is it West Glacier gaming? West Glacier gaming at Gmail. And thanks for your

email me. We'll work it up. And Robbie, do we have an ad by any chance? We do. I'll go and

go up for your right now. Thank you, sir. Okay. $2 from Steve. Thanks for the $2 Canadian

dollars. Are you a DC or Marvel guy? Definitely DC. Soden. Thanks for the 1999. Good morning,

Gents. Is Tulsi the worst DNI in history? Well, yeah. You know, I'm not sure I would call

the worst in history. Maybe John Negriponti would be worse. Rick Grinnell would be worse.

Actually, there have been a bunch that have been worse. But she kind of hate to even say this.

She's not respected at the White House. And so they've cut her out. And to tell you the truth,

if I were Tulsi, I would resign just because I think she's being disrespected. And she's

not having an impact on anything. She deserves better. She's still as she does. Isn't she? I

mean, I believe she is. Yeah. Yeah. It's not right. She's a tenant colonel or something like

that, which is funny because in her civilian grade, she's a, she's a four star general.

Yeah, she's being disrespected. It's not, it's not right. And like you just, yeah,

she'd make more of a splash by quitting. But like you said, John, I think she needs the money.

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true ownership, true protection, true financial freedom. John, I got to ask you about the CIA coin

that you're, that you're, so first of all, is there a physical coin or is it just virtual?

And how does it look? Is it like, are you happy with your image on it?

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's an image. It's a virtual coin, but in the, the advertising,

they make it look like a Bitcoin, but it has my picture on it. It's called CIA coin,

a mean coin. And it's a picture of me in front of the Justice Department. I was giving a speech

in support of Julian Assange. It's a picture that's out there. I think it's Washington Post or

AP or something like that. I only heard about this on Friday of last week. And over the weekend,

I sort of objected, these guys just, you know, used my picture. And then we had a conversation

about it. And I brought my attorney in and everything's good, everything's smooth. And, and it's a

legit coin. It's not, it's not something they did just, you know, on a lark. It's like a real thing.

To the extent, to the extent that crypto is ever real.

To the extent that crypto is not a 17th century Dutch tulip bulb. Yes. Yeah.

So the image is okay. Yeah, so they asked me if I would go on Twitter and say, you know,

I saw it. I approve of it. I, you know, I can't endorse it just because, you know, for legal reasons,

I'm not saying go out and buy the CIA coin because it's going to make you rich. I can't say that.

But I, I'm going to see where it goes. I would be, I mean, like, I was, you know,

it's like with the Trump coin. My best is why Trump would want that image on the coin. It's really

ugly. Yeah, it's awful, awful. I mean, yeah, exactly. And another thing that I don't understand

about Trump and, and the image that he, you know, prefers to put on these things

is, for example, like his, his mug shot. Mm-hmm. That's not a flattering photo.

No, he looks iconic. Yeah. Why do you want to look like a pissed off dictator?

Well, I read when I was researching my book about him for people who care I did a book about him

back in 2018. He looks like, you know, he, he practices in front of the mirror. He's obsessed with

Churchill. And he said, Churchill was always scowling and looking like, like harsh. And that's

what made him look like a badass. I'm like, Churchill was a prick. That's why he was like,

he was a war criminal. Yes. Uh-huh. And he had a right wing maniac, wife,

feeder, yeah, long list bastard. Sure. But the point is that like, he's like, so he's like,

I want to be like Churchill. But actually with Trump has a very nice smile. And he really,

I mean, just as someone who collects coins has looked at coins from, you know, lots of coins,

lots of stamps, I mean, you know, he would be better off being memorialized with a,

a smiley or a neutral look, I think. Mr. President, you're watching, you know, sir.

Yeah. You know, do you know that, that iconic use of harsh image of, of Churchill, where he's like,

you know, like this, he's got the cigar, iconic image. There's a story there where

cars didn't just go to Churchill's office and take that picture. He took like a hundred pictures.

That was the only one in which Churchill wasn't smiling. And every one of the other 99 pictures

is kind of a warm, a little bit of loof, kind of friendly, you know, and they just don't work.

And then that one picture has become the picture that everybody knows.

Did Churchill sign off on that picture? Yeah. Why that happened that way? Yeah.

That's, so, yeah, and you, I know you've seen the, the, the film of Hitler practicing his speeches,

right? Yes. Where in front of the mirror. And he, he was, he didn't look, yeah, I mean, you know,

kind of like he had these, he didn't really just articulate like that naturally. He had kind of a

pleasant voice in real life. But that's not the image he wanted to project to the German public.

Even the mustache, right, was something he copied from like the, you know, traditional old

Prussian 18, yes, hundreds. Very strange. Anyway, top best coolest thanks for the two bucks.

I appreciate you blazing scout 5625. I think that's right. If you do 65, don't want to get your

number wrong. Thanks for the 499. What's the perspective on Communists and Communism?

Both domestically and abroad. Good question. Does the US worry about socialism growing in

popularity? Well, I don't think the United that Communism has any meaningful presence in US

political discourse whatsoever. Not anymore. Like it doesn't even exist. Does the US worry about

socialism growing internationally? It worries about it a lot. That's why it crushes socialist

regimes like Cuba and Venezuela. Because it's, I think it's terrified to see that like, oh,

there could be aspects of socialism or communism that would appeal and that Americans might

someday theoretically want some of that for themselves. Like, oh, I would be great not to go to

debt to send my kids to college. I don't know. That's, that's my take. Now, I agree with you. You

know, I said in my very first book that on my very first day at the CIA, January 7, 1990,

the director of security for the CIA gave a speech. And he opened the speech by saying,

the gravest threat facing the United States today is the threat of Soviet Communism.

And I remember saying to the guy next to me, this is guy not watch the news.

Yeah. Yeah. And then a year later, there is no such thing as Soviet Communism.

There really wasn't, I mean, there was a Soviet Union, but there really wasn't Soviet Communism

by that point. Right. That's so, yeah, that's so weird. I mean, John, my cartoonist colleagues

still draw Russia, like using a Cold War iconography, like with the bear and like, you know,

even hammers and sickles. I'm like, guys, hello, I mean, you know, the Russian Federation is not

a communist country. No, at all. Hey, I'm going to show you one other thing that I like very much.

This is, this is a Soviet Academy Award. I know what that is. That's cool. Isn't that great?

That's a Soviet Academy Award. You notice it's, it was never granted to anyone.

It weighs a ton, too. Let me tell you. This is marble. This is steel. So I found it in an

antique shop in Sophia Bulgaria. And the guy said, yeah, when the Soviet Union fell apart,

like everything associated with the Soviet Union fell apart with it. And this was the Soviet,

you know, film collective, their Academy Award. And, um, and so the ones that had been made that

weren't going to be granted to anybody were just sort of released to whoever wanted them.

And this guy picked a couple up. The only reason that I, that I even paid attention to it was

because before seeing it for sale, I saw one that had been given as a lifetime achievement award

to Francis Ford Coppola. I took a tour of the Coppola vineyard. And on the second floor of

the vineyard, there's this little teeny tiny like personal museum. And it has Marlon Brando's

desk from the Godfather. And it has Francis Ford Coppola's Soviet Academy Award for lifetime

achievement. And I recognize it as like, oh, I, I got to buy that. You got to think of me 25 bucks

for it. Oh, that's fantastic. And just as a sculpture. Yes. This is what I mean about Americans

are not good at propaganda. I mean, we're not sure. It's beautiful. It's ugly piece of shit.

Yeah, it is. And so is the Emmy. The Emmy's ridiculous. Um, you know, I don't know. The Tony's

like better looking kind of, but yeah, that's, yeah, the Tony's okay. Yeah, I wouldn't mind having

one of those not that I ever will. Um, but yeah, that's a, yeah, that's, that's fantastic. Oh, my

god, I'm so jealous of that. All right. So I want to shout out to Mike from the Miami airport.

Oh, yeah. Thanks. Thanks for stopping me, Mike. Um, you know, one of the things that I really

loved head is, God, this is going to sound wrong, but I'm just going to say it and you can dry your

own conclusions. I enjoy being recognized because it gives me the opportunity to say thank you

for people for supporting us and supporting me personally, whether it's for the pardon or when

I was in prison or whatever it was, I, I like being recognized because it allows me to say,

thank you so much for your support. And I ran into this guy at the airport of Miami yesterday

who watches the show every day. And I wanted to say, thank you for stopping me and it was a

pleasure meeting him. Oh boy, breaking news, speaking of awards, John, did you see this from

the Washington Post, the latest recipient of the Mark Twain award, which is something I would

like to get from the Kennedy Trump Center. Yeah, oh, Bill Mar. What? The Mark Twain award, that's

a major American literary award. Yeah, it's for, you know, it's for great achievements in humor.

Okay, I'm going to be egotistical here. I'm far more deserving of the Mark Twain award

than Bill Mar is. And I've been on Bill Mar is a regular on a show and on both the old one

and the new one, new, you know, in quotes there. Yeah. Bill Mar is not funny.

Oh, he's not. Yeah, well, I think you could be mean and funny. I think, for sure, I mean, Mark Twain,

certainly. Tyler Reddick here from 2311 Racing. Victory Lane? Yeah, it's even better with Chamba

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free today at RSS.com. You know how to be mean and funny, but he's not funny, not consistently.

I mean, the thing is his, his model logs are corny. I mean, there's stupid puns that wouldn't

be out of place for like, you know, Johnny Carson in the 1960s. Actually, not Johnny Carson did

better than that. I don't know. It's just sort of like, yeah. Well, you know, in the closing,

you mentioned the closing days of the Soviet Union, John, like in the 80s, like only hacks were

allowed to succeed in the Soviet Union. The system was circling the drain. That's what it is.

That's what it's like now. Only hacks win Pulitzer's. Only hacks, you know, win big prizes.

It's just, you know, draw that draw conclusion what you want is true.

Top best coolest, thanks for the five. Why does Europe complain about illegal migration without

addressing its causes? Why not pressure corrupt, to help leaders and tackle Libya's instability?

I'm not sure they're really complaining. I think they like the cheap labor.

Yeah. Sure. The Greeks do complain. The Greeks have become assholes about it, which I'm not

saying is a bad thing. I've complained in the past that the Turks take billions of euros

from the European Union to set up refugee camps in Turkey. They gladly take the money.

And then in the dead of night, they put these refugees on boats and send them to Greece because

they know it's going to crash the economy. And that's what they want to do. And then the boats

overturn and they crash into the Greek coast guard boat and overturn or it's and then people die.

And they're like, oh my god, the Greeks. They're not helping these poor people.

That's not it at all. Robby wants to. Robby has an explanation about Trump's mug shot.

Yes. So the whole thing about Trump, it's really kind of brilliant on his end. And that's not a

word I use very often with Trump is that his whole spiel is they're not after me. They're after

you. I'm just in the way. So that's why he uses the mug shot. That's why he has that, that hemorrhoid

corn cob up the butt look. It's because he's trying. He's trying to, he's trying to sell the image

that they're after Joe six pack or citizen America and that he is this violent defender, the shield

of America. I just like to say, defending the American working class against all the

wilds of globalism. Meanwhile, he does everything he can to continue the hollowing out of the country.

Robby, I think you're 100% right. Thank you for that. Let's talk about. I'm not going to,

I don't want to give short shrift to Etienne Davignon. So he's this Belgian dude, 93 years old,

kind of peripherally involved in the assassination of Patrice Malumba. I think it's impossible to

overstate just sort of the romantic interest in Patrice Malumba among the left and from the

anti-colonialist movement. He was the first democratically elected leader of post-colonial

Congo. And of course, probably no country in this saying a lot in colonial Africa, suffered

as much as Congo under colonialism. It was literally the personal possession of the king,

Leopold. Like literally, he had the deed to the whole country. Anyway, back in January of 1961,

this guy basically like dropped a dime on him and like sort of arranged for him to be assassinated.

He was tortured, executed, and kind of like what happened to Shogi dissolved in a barrel of

sulfuric acid. So at the time, Davignon was just 27 years old. He was a trainee at the Belgian

embassy in Leopoldville. But anyway, the thing is what I found really interesting, I'm not that

interested in the trial. I don't think we're going to get a lot of light there. I'm super

interested, John. And the fact that the CIA has never released, the US has never released

its CIA files on Congo. And I was wondering what your thoughts were about this whole?

There was a book published a few years back. Well, more than a few. I'm going to find it

that Larry Devlin, it was called Chief of Station Congo. Larry Devlin wrote it and asked his

daughter not to publish it until he died. He died in 2008. But the reason he asked her not

to publish it until he died was because he didn't want to put it through the CIA's publications

review process. So he just came right out with all the secrets. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, it was

cool. It was one of the first books that I bought when I was thinking of writing my own book,

my first book. And I was like, how the heck did he get away with it? So I called his daughter.

And she's like, oh, no, that was the whole idea. He knew that they would never let him say any

this stuff, especially about Patrice Lemomba. And so he wanted to wait until he died because she

said, I'm not bound by the CIA's publications review process. He was. And so the funny thing that

I remember about this book is that Larry Devlin says that he actually saved Patrice Lemomba's

life at one point, that the CIA was planning to assassinate him. And the CIA had recruited the head

of Lemomba's bodyguard unit to shoot him in the back. And he tipped Lemomba off. And Lemomba

had the guy arrested. But he said the CIA had so made up its mind that Lemomba was a communist

that he was going to rely himself with the Soviet Union. He had to go. And so they plotted with

the Belgians to take him out. And like you said, they took him out in a terrible way. They arrested

him. They paraded him through public, you know, in the back of a pickup truck. They beat him.

They tortured him. They executed him. And then they dissolved him in a barrel of acid.

And they, and what the people of Congo were left to the tender mercies of Joseph, of Joseph

Mabutu. That's right. Who was a collection of tattoos? Yeah. And he was one of the most brutal

tyrants in post-colonial Africa. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is a big meta question, but hey,

we're here for that. I mean, during the Cold War, it was always my feeling that the United States

over, they were paranoid about the possibility of foreign leaders who were leading left,

drifting into the Soviet orbit. I'm like Castro, as a young man, wrote to the United States,

and said that he wanted to. He loved the United States. Ho Chi Minh had American flags at his

inauguration. Couldn't we have made friends with people like repeatedly, repeatedly with people

who, you know, Fidel Castro was a baseball phenom and was in the Washington Senators minor league

baseball farm system. He came here as a rebel to seek U.S. support against the Batista regime

and was told, you know, to get, get out because we don't talk to communists. And it was that

that turned him against us because we wouldn't help him. Right. And so he turned to the Soviets.

And like you say, Ho Chi Minh was another example. Ho Chi Minh for years would tell people,

he just couldn't understand why what the United States has against him, that he liked the United

States. It was the French that he was fighting again. Paul Pot like to the Western Europeans at first.

He was French educated, right? Yeah, no, I don't, I still get it. I mean, you know, these people,

they reach out to us first and we tell them to fuck off and we force them to become enemies.

That's exactly right. Weird. Do you think we have anything like that going on now?

I mean, I kind of feel like we do probably the Iranians maybe is a good example. Sure.

Sure. But we're so stupid, though, that we lie ourselves with the likes of the clown Reza

Palavi or the cult leader Miriam Rajavi. And then where do we find ourselves?

We're in bed with a call leader, a disgrace crown prince and the Israeli intelligence service.

That's just grand. Let me ask you about Palavi, right? So my Twitter feed is full of

of a Palavi monarchist people. So when you see like the same exact talking point on on X,

like, you know, like the the Iranian people have decided they want Reza Palavi to be their new leader.

They have decided. I'm like, the Iranian people of Beverly Hills, maybe nobody has decided

anything, right? There's been no poll of anything. Nobody's there's been no election.

There's been nothing. And there can't be under the present circumstances. And anyway,

exiles aren't going to get a vote, right? So okay. Are those like just coordinated talking

points that are sent out to everybody and everybody and they came right out of the Mossad? Yes.

Correct. Wow. Okay. It's really depressing because I don't I think most people who read that

shit don't know. You know, I remember during the in the early days of the Iraq war at the CIA,

we got a real kick out of something that happened at the White House. The Republican National Committee

came up with talking points that were so offensive that multiple people leaked them to the media.

And they were trying to coin this new phrase. It was Islamophashism. Oh, yeah, that's Chris Hitchens.

That's Chris Hitchens, right? So so everybody was instructed just like over the course of two or

three days to start using this term Islamophashism. And it was everybody from some blonde

bimbo who was the head of the college Republicans at the time to, you know, the National Security

Advisor. And the American people were just like, what? It literally is. That's not going to work.

Yeah. Yeah. It's the R word. I'm trying not to use it. WN, look at $1.99. Look it up. There's

a video of the Cornhole guy shooting a gun. There is. I've seen it away. Okay. I don't look it

up right now. Totally true. Top best cool thanks for the five bucks. I found that Iran is

relatively open with Persian's powerful Azerbaijanis like Kamene and that has no allies due to

its historical links with Russia. And I think, and I think the majority Shia thing enters into it too.

Son of Mauritania, two bucks. Thank you so much. I see him. I see him shooting a gun. Yeah.

And he's with that too. He's shooting his gun with his stumps as he's laughing the ground because

he has no legs. Yeah. Oh, here's here. He has thrown a Cornhole with his stumps. Yep. He's

stumping. Oh, my God. Thanks for the two dollars. People don't talk about the history of Israeli Jews

kicked out of all the world and a lot of not, I don't know, of not Jews, especially from Soviet

and Africa and Arab leader. Okay. I'm sorry. This is, we need, it's hard to make, make header

tails of this post. Desert Fox 41. Thanks for the dollar. What do you make of the Epstein Roth Child

Connection? He brags about it and emails with Teal. Oh, you know, I was reading some of these

Roth Child emails yesterday. Yeah. The Roth Childs should be ashamed of themselves

for the relationship that they had with Jeffrey Epstein. And the behind the scenes, there was,

there was a piece of the Times yesterday about this woman. Oh, shoot, her name escapes me.

Anyway, she's one of these high society New York fixer women. And she took Jeffrey Epstein's

money like with both hands, right? And she's welcoming him home from prison. She in solidarity

with him on the day he was released, she wore stripes, right, to make it look like a prison

uniform. And, and the emails were saying, you know, we have to figure out how to reintegrate you

back into into New York society. And don't worry, go slowly, but just rest assured that you have

the widest townhouse in all of Manhattan, you know, and then two years later, he's dead in a prison

cell. Guys, we have a few leftover super chats that we'll get to tomorrow. One of them, John,

we're going to give you a chance. First thing tomorrow, Advil 999, I heard you're a plant

by the state. Is that true? No, it's not fucking true, but we'll talk about that tomorrow

with John. I'm a plant by the state. Yeah, you're a plant by the state.

You know, if ever I want to use the R word, it's in response to stuff like this.

Yeah, that would be fair. And Dinky, thanks for the 1799 Emirati Deeram, thanks for the consistent

coverage. And thanks for the Polish 100 from Justine. And finally, Marshmell, hey guys, I love

the show. Here's my question of a 25 year old in manufacturing. Where do you see the country

going economically? I'd love to buy a home. They're crushing my generation with affordability.

I regret voting for Trump. Wow, there's always opportunities in any economy is my big

is my big advice there. That's right. And Dinky 33 that's 1799 Deeram's. Thank you very,

very much for that. I don't know how many what how many Deeram's are to the dollar $500.

Oh, wow. Well, thanks very much for that. Guys, for the there's a two or three that we didn't get

to today. And I apologize for that. We will get to you tomorrow. It's just a reminder of our

change schedule next week. But we'll get to that tomorrow. See you tomorrow 9 o'clock

a.m. Eastern time. We're here Monday through Friday. Tomorrow's Friday. So that means we'll be back.

Please stay tuned for the TMI show at 10 a.m. coming up right now with Milocian at 11

a.m. I'll also be doing the DMZ America podcast with dot status.

Mr. Fish will be joining us to talk about the state of the world. And I'm sure things will get

brought some work. So John, thanks you. Thank you so much. See you tomorrow. Everybody. Bye.

Hey, it's Bubba Wallace from 2311 Racing. You know what it feels like forever?

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