The Fall Movie Preview (with Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins of ‘The Big Picture’)

0:00This is already far more civil than the drafts are. We just, we haven't started yet. Well, I just, if you would like us to, if you would like us to behave, you should say so now. This is Talk Easy. I'm San Frugoso. Welcome to the show. Today it's Lord of Letterboxed and the head of the dog mob, Sean Fantasy and Amanda Dobbins. They host the big picture, one of the flagship shows over at the ringer, and each week they break down what's happening in movies, what's playing in theaters, what you can watch on streaming, and of course the films coming just around the corner. And so with the fall movie season upon us and both Sean and Amanda heading off to two different festivals and tell you right in Venice, we thought we'd borrow a page from their beloved movie drafts playbook and

1:02look ahead at the projects we're most excited to see come the end of 2026. That's the first half of the episode. After the break in the draft, we turn to some of Sean and Amanda's origin story, how they first met back in New York City, their time working in magazines, the creation of the ringer and the big picture, this latest chapter with Netflix, and how they've evolved as co-host after nearly a thousand episodes. That's coming up next with Sean Fantasy and Amanda Dobbins. I hope you enjoy. Amanda Dobbins, Sean Fantasy, thank you for being here. Thanks for having us. How are you two doing? You were on vacation. The tan is fantastic. I'm a little self-conscious about it, but thank you. Yeah, it's a little too much. I wore sunscreen every day. I reapplied. I wore a hat. I did all of the responsible things I'm supposed to do as a mother and a woman over 40 with, you know, fearing sun damage, but this is all natural. This is no, there's no. No, yeah, of course it's natural. Yeah, I know, oh, no spray tans. No, I don't, I don't do spray tans. I mean,

2:06people do and that's great for them, but that's not in my arsenal. Yeah, you can naturally look like George Hamilton. It's amazing. That's what I'm about to say. This is pretty, if I could do that, I mean, I, we have, we don't have that lot. Yeah. Have you been okay without Amanda on the big pictures? Okay. Vacation. Yeah. Yeah. I've been okay. I listen to the most recent episode. You did well. Thank you. Good job. I, yeah. We've both been on parental leave in the past. We both had to do the show without each other in the past. It's not as fun, but we make do. I wanted to start there in a recent episode that you weren't on just to kind of clear the air and make sure I give you a chance to respond. Sean has been accused throughout the years, but especially this year of being too horny on the podcast. Right. Yes. And I want to play just a little bit from that episode for us. And Amanda will give you a shot. Okay. Jump in. I love Sean fantasy, but sometimes he's too horny on the big picture. I think that's a misrepresentation. I'm not saying I'm not too horny,

3:09but on the big picture, I think me noting my appreciation for certain actresses. I have my faves, right? And halfway, Jessica Chastain, that is not too horny. It's like looking at a great work of art and saying, God, there's such depth and specialness here. We should acknowledge it every time we see it. If you go to the Lou, if you've been to the Lou five times, you don't not look at the Mona Lisa. You look at the Mona Lisa. It's there. It's a, it's a classical work of art that's meant to be appreciated over and over again. And it's right to say. So is that too horny? No. That doesn't mean I'm not horny, but it doesn't mean I'm too horny. I'm doing my best. If I cross the line sometimes, it's only out of appreciation and respect. I'm not trying to objectify anybody. And I won't. Amanda, on the other hand, is too horny. Welcome back. Thank you so much. I did see that on Instagram. I thought you did. Yeah. That's what I want to give you kind of the runway to respond until the jab at the end. I stand with Sean on this one. I think that I disagree with the premise of the question. You do a pretty good job. Thanks.

4:09As for Sean, the big picture and especially in relationship to, you know, the history of cinema and media as well, which is kind of what we are speaking about twice a week. So you don't objectify women as much as Hollywood and or Matt. Low bar. You know, mainstream media. Well, sure. But, you know, there you are. And I think there's one phrase that you have that is someone's beauty is like a special effect, which is for I think Marilyn Monroe and Anna D'Armas and a couple other people. And I guess those are paired together because one tried to play the other, not her fault. So I followed by completely forgot that movie. Yeah. Well, I think that's probably for the best. But she tried very hard. Oh, no, no one accused her of not trying. That was not. So I think you do a good job. I think I'm fine. I think I'm direct. I think that do you think you objectify men? No, I think that I'm acknowledging the role that they

5:15are playing in the film or in the world at large, much like you are. I think not horny enough. Okay. Thank you. I think I think go for it. That's what people want on a pod. Is it? Look, it's what I want. They want 40 somethings on movie podcasts, talking about how hot they think people are. I just want to encourage future generations to get in there. Try it out. And you so this is about being a role model. I, you know, and I, of course, I think a podcasting in that way. Okay. Right. I think it's fine. I think it's fine. I would say on the rewatchables, I think you're a little hornyer than you are on the environment. Yeah. It's more of a. The car add on by certain parties. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's part of the social contract of that show. But even still, I would say I'm horny this is a social contract. Yeah. I think so. Well, the expression of, right? The communication of the certification and the appreciation of. Yeah. As well. Yeah. Yeah. But like we're not talking about individual body parts, right? I'm what also that is a low part. Let's dig

6:20into this though, because you're concerned about the younger people not having sex, which so am I. But would two old people on a podcast being like really appreciate the work of Ben Affleck, especially in Gone Girl when he's in the shower. Great stuff. Is that going to encourage younger people to get out there and get after it? You know, I don't, I don't know if the tour aligned. And I'm fine. I do appreciate the work of Ben Affleck in and out of the shower. But I don't know whether people, the young people are going to go out. Is that going to encourage young people to have sex or to watch Gone Girl? I think they should do both. What's the difference? Yeah. That's fair question. I'm just about raising awareness. Okay. That's that's all. I think I agree with you. Okay. One piece of film news I want to talk about before we get into the fall draft. Ridley Scott has a new product out called the dog stars. Yes. Unfortunately, title. But it stars Jacob Lourdy, Josh Brolin and Margaret Qualie. And for it, he sat down for an interview and variety where

7:24he said, quote, I never want to repeat myself and all of my films have been on the money. I've been ahead of the game frequently. And if you're ahead of the game, you're an influencer. So I'm not a filmmaker. I'm an influencer. I did see this quote as well. Same really big same. He sounded so much like the Conor O'Malley character and Maddie Secret. Holy nice. We've got content to make. I didn't see that. I pivot. Ridley Scott's relationship to filmmaking and also advertising. And the image as a commercial product is quite history. So he's not wrong. He definitely to your point sounds like Conor O'Malley and or the, you know, hello fellow kids and that he's trying to attach himself to the most invoked word. But he does understand what an image can do to make people by things, which is my understanding of the word influencer. He's a very commercial filmmaker. And he's

8:24a very sort of like actively for hire director. He has a lot of power. But whether or not he has like a specific, authorial style, the timing is very good because we're seeing the dog stars tonight. I mean, and I, which is something that we do frequently, we go to see these screenings together. And then at the end of this week, we're going to do an episode about the dog stars and about Ridley's whole career. Ridley usually does this thing that you just shared with us before every movie. He does one to two junket interviews. He says one to two hysterical, ridiculous things. He very rarely engages with any kind of meaningful criticism or praise of his work or interview for them. Yeah. He doesn't do very many interviews. I've never talked to him before. Have you spoken with him? He has not come on the show. He has declined every request. Yes. I would like to sit on that couch right there when he does. And just when he says to climb and when he comes on the show, that's the thing though. He's a great talker. So you'd think he would do more things like this. But he is. I interviewed him once when I was like in college, I did a story about Captain Waterston for movie maker

9:28magazine. I don't even know if that exists anymore. Sure. Yeah. I know. And he gave me like 20 minutes on the phone. Everything he said made it into the piece. Of course. He's a great salesman and is good at it. But I was a little, I was a little influencer seems kind of bummed me out a little bit. Well, yeah. I would have given the note too. Going back to Horniness just for a second. Oh, thank God. Well, just because as you were reading the cast list, I was reminded of who you were. I know the jicke of allortias in this film. I'm quite looking forward to spending two hours with him tonight. But for the premiere, not too horny apparently. Yeah. And in the shot sitting next to you while you're excited to. Okay. Yeah. A slight vibration emanating from her seat. Jacob Allordie brought his dog to the premiere red carpet dog stars. Yes. It looks sort of German Shepherdish. As you know, I'm not really. But well trained. And it was doing some, you know, Jacob Allordie had the dog, you know, sit and like pose for the cameras, which I thought was just a great bit because

10:28Jacob Allordie is quite tall and can do anything. But I just want to say that not until you read the title, the dog stars on this podcast two minutes ago, did it connect in my mind that Jacob Allordie brought his dog to the red carpet because dog is in the title. Is that my, or is it just to engender sympathy for what may not turn out to be a very good film? I think that's it. I think I think he's probably using the dog. It worked. I want to stop with the animal, bring out animals during awards. I'm good. So you don't like it when the dog is being recognized for its performance? No, I think it should be recognized for its performance. I don't like it being recognized as a prop. Right. Okay. Long time advocates of dog Oscars. But I just don't know why if you're a dog person, you want to take recognition away from these hard working dogs. You remember the dog that was in both game night and widows? Yes. The Stephen Queen movie. I want to say her name was Olivia. But I could be wrong. And anyway, Olivia was having her moment. She was the it girl of the season and you don't want her

11:30recognized. I'm sorry if her name's not Olivia. I'm sorry to this dog. This is already very different than when I was on the show last time. I just want you to know that the trimmy Terry's we've gone down. You want me to know that? I remember I was the host. But but I thoroughly enjoying. So I want to get into the fall movie preview, which I thought we could do in the style of the big picture, which is doing a draft. Now one or two big questions before we get into it. You both are going to festivals. Is that right? You're going to tell your ride and you're going to Venice. That's right. Are you two bracing yourselves for the fall? How do you feel? And how do you think the movie has been thus far heading into September? I like the travel. I don't love the travel. But the once I'm at a festival, I'm usually very happy. I really enjoy the experience of seeing something really for the first time with a lot of people and getting excited about it. You know, the pomp and circumstance, I think, is entertaining and where I go every year is one of my favorite places on the planet. So I feel like people spotting Sean Venice. I tell you right is like when they spot Hertzog over there. Yes. It's not quite at that

12:35level. He's been going since the beginning of the festival and has a theater named after him. So let's not compare us. They're pretty close. But it is true. He has met a lot of people and meet a lot of tell your right friends who have now become my friends as well, which is a nice benefit. And it's your happy place. It is. So here are the categories as I devise them. But again, I offered room for punch ups here because this is not my wheelhouse. But I had best picture, best performer performance. A category called FYC, which also could be called Charles Melton sent me homemade kimchi award for campaign going the extra mile. All of the Charles Melton is family. That was very sweet. I think you did that for made December. Family affair, which is a movie that's going to come out around Thanksgiving or Christmas or a movie that just feels befitting of that time. Cautiously optimistic. I think that's implied. And then wild card can be anything from a smaller movie in the critical darling movie that will maybe need some more love and support. So that's that's what I had now. Not checking my text messages here. I just I have a list.

13:41I do my homework. I heard. But it has to be opening in the fall. Yes. I think that should be that should be the qualification because a lot of movies got punted to 2027. And I think people are excited because it has been a pretty good movie here. It has. They're wondering what's going to come out. Yeah. So that was my read of it. Rightly so. Do you think it's a weaker fall than it was a spring? We were the only communication we had over our respective vacations was about which is a good thing. You know, you need you need breaks distances. Um, was about reshoots on the David Fincher movie or rumored reshoots. We weren't David did not call either of us. Uh, Nora, am I on a first name basis with him? Uh, but reshoots on the uh, sequel to once upon a time in Hollywood with a script by Quentin Tarantino rumored to be called the Adventures of Cliff Booth. Is that confirmed? Can you say? I don't know. I don't know. And I've not seen this before where we just don't know anything.

14:41And it's supposed to be coming out over Thanksgiving. Let's let's assume that one is coming out. Okay. Yes. I've been told for sure it is coming. Yes. As of I, but I who the hell knows? But so you get news in August that they're doing reshoots on a movie that is scheduled for Thanksgiving. It's concerning. And we were speaking a little more broadly with a friend of ours of just it's a weird fall. Things keep moving. Things as you noted, keep getting pushed to 2027. I can't figure out what's going on with Thanksgiving and why there's no giant tent pole. I still don't understand why the two biggest box office movies of the year Avengers, June's day and June part three are being released on the same day. I so I don't understand the fall season, which doesn't mean that I'm not looking forward to it because there are many movies by filmmakers. I love being released. We will wait through it together. Okay. And do the best we can in a very fun and silly exercise. My favorite thing. I don't know how we were going to do the draft order. But I'll just

15:45let you have the first pick. We can go that way. Unless you want to have the first pick Amanda. That's fine. He can go for it. Is it useful to to we just choose any category we want to would you like to go in order through the categories you choose the categories as you'd like with the picks as you like. This is already far more civil than the drafts are. We just we haven't started yet. Well, I just if you would like us to if you would like us to behave, you should say so now. I would love you to not behave. Okay. All right. And you can put your phones on the table for this card. Thank you so much. All right. Yeah. So I don't look at I'm like I'm staring at my crotch. Yeah. You already had the Hortinianist conversation. I I'm just going to play I'm going to play loose. Okay. You know, I'm on this is the away game. Yeah. I'm not at home. Yeah. These are my rules. These are my categories. This this is a a a a stand in. We'll see the tension coursing through his body. I see that. And that's what I've heard your poker game is described. Yeah. I've heard

16:47you're pretty pretty pretty quiet. Pretty chill. Yeah, but he also real like to turn on rounders like two hands an hour situation. Yeah. Grinding out that red button. Yeah. Headphones in. But so it's it's just Sean and the cards. You know, there's there. No other people to navigate. So now we're here and primarily me. No need for repart. I'm here. Yeah. I'm just occasionally a villain shows up at the table. You know, someone who's really betting into you. Yeah. You don't like that. Are they always dressed in yellow? Yeah. It's it feels that way. Certainly. I'll I'm going to I'm going to go critical darling hidden gem to start with a movie that I've already seen, which is um rice gahan mugu cheese all of a sudden. I like this movie quite a bit. I think we both do. This is his follow up to evil does not exist, which was his fall to drive my car, which was not nominated for best picture Japanese filmmaker who makes these very long, deep, complex stories about people at work. And this is one about a woman who works at an elder care facility. And she encounters another woman who's at a crossroads in her life. And they form this fascinating

17:51relationship. This movie is like one of the least commercial films I've ever seen in my entire life. It's three and a half hours. It's it's not an English English language. It is about taking care of old people and capitalism and its trouble. And there is a 20 minute segment in the middle of the film that just involves a whiteboard documenting the various strata of the French capitalist system. Does that remind you of how Sean programs the show? I did watch it and think the memes will be incredible. As soon as I saw the whiteboard, I was like, I know what I'm putting on this whiteboard in response to Sean. So yes. Good. Very lyrical, beautiful movie. I've heard it's amazing. It's really, really incredible. And one of the rare movies where the runtime not just earns its length, but needs it. And you really, you're sitting there two hours in with the whiteboard and you're you're wondering, okay, so we have an hour and a half more of this. And you're not quite

18:56doubting, but you are aware of the time. And I have never really seen the time. And even the specificity of pretty arcane material come together in such a transcendent and emotional way. Where it is, you know, it's movies as experience, a very different type of experience than Avengers Doomsday, but remarkable. Nothing. I won't draft that. I might draft that. Yeah. You never know. Okay. So that was your your wild card pick. Okay. Good. In I'm going to take a swing since that was a swing of sorts. In best picture, it's another film that we saw at Cannes Club Kid written and directed by Jordan First Men, which was I think among both of our favorites of the year of at Cannes and definitely a breakout. It was acquired by a 24 out of the festival and is slated for a November release, which in awards talk means this will be in the mix. But this is both a very, very

19:58drug forward, horny, New York edgy, I guess quote unquote movie and also an incredibly classical movie about growing up and about parenting and really family. It has a lot in common with Cramer versus Cramer. And I loved it. And I really think that it's going to hit. I just, you know, a 24 is obviously very talented with these sorts of things. And I think it's provocative enough to get attention just in terms of the amount of druglingo that Sean and I learned from the movie. And you know, we're not up to date on that stuff. Yeah. And but still traditional, like it just it really has a beautiful heart. And I think even older voters will will be like a little bit titillated, but ultimately paid off by the arc. So you get the drug language won't be too much for well, I think it's going to go right over their heads. Yeah, I think it'll go over their heads. And

20:59you don't see that much. It's a, it's the first 20 minutes is very frank about the world in which the first main character exists, which is he's a club promoter and queer clubs in New York City. And it I guess like the mid 2010s, it seems like the movie is very is nonjudgmental. And like I mean, it's that very warm and kind of winning in a way like I just talked about Tony on on the podcast, the Anthony Bourdain film. And very similar in terms of like there's a kind of old fashionness in it with a contemporary vibe that I think people will respond to as well. So I like them. We'll be a lot. I've heard it's great. Jordan Firstman very talented. I will take in performer Julianne Moore in the debut. I'm Miss Danielle. Thanks for coming by on such short notice. What seems to be the problem, Barnaby? Sorry, is that um, is that how she's going to do it? Yeah, you're more crossed too late for that. Of course. It's written and directed by Jesse Heisenberg. I think it's coming around Christmas time in December. And I just have a good feeling. This is

22:03going to be a lot of them because mine are based on feelings. It's a smart pick. I mean, I Julianne Moore is is beloved. And I'm ready to kind of have a moment again like the May December part where she gets to be. Yeah. Properly recognized. I think she's on a short list of people who people would be comfortable saying she deserves two Oscars. She does already have an academy award. Right. But we all want to still Alice. We want to make that for that. Yeah, that wasn't the best. And that was sort of, you know, there are people who really admire that film. I don't really care for it. But people that sort of like thought as a makeup Oscar for somebody who could have won any number of times for shortcuts or boogie nights are all her amazing performances over the years. But I also am excited about this. And I'm hopeful that it will be a tell your right. Did you like Jesse Heisenberg's last movie? A lot. I did. What was that? A real pain. A real pain. Yeah. That was good. Very good. And it makes sense that he is going this, this route. I know he loves making. Now you see me movies. Great actors. Get in a paycheck. Yeah. Doing fun stuff. I remember when he came on the show, he said, quote, I get to be outside of

23:05myself and my body and a happy person, which is an uncommon experience for me. Wow, I really relate to that. And I got to get in there. You see me moving. Yeah. You love magic. I love magic. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Oh, we're just doing like. Oh, do I go next? Oh, do you want to do a snake or roundabout? What do you guys like? I really don't. Well, we do the turn on the we usually do. I'll go with you again. Okay. Then I will. This is what we have to prepare Sam. It's not as easy as it looks. I prepared. I've mainly prepared to interview you both, but I've also prepared. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. See that we know what this feels like. You kind of groaning and sighing as you prepare. You're picking that is the essence of movie draft podcast. Right. Little too horny. But yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, now we now we're all learning about each other. You know, okay. In F.Y.C. I'm going to take Wild Horse 9. Okay. Oh, interesting. Sure. This is in large part because

24:10the banshees of Inesheran didn't win anything. Yes. Which was a mistake in my in my opinion. And Martin McDonald, a very talented guy. Sam Rockwell, John Malkovich. I think both of them have a kind of outside chance, maybe not even outside. And I have a feeling that search light will put the investment and the money in the campaign to make it a thing. It's doing the fall festival. Yeah. It's doing the fall festival. Then it's going to start at Venice. And then presumably, we'll make its way to Colorado. Tell your right. Does a cute thing where they don't tell you officially what's playing until the day before. And how is that for your nervous system? Well, I know too much now. Yeah. I have a pretty good feel for what's going to be there. I tell you. But a lot of it is just understanding the delineations at each other festival. So you know this. I mean, if a film is going to the Toronto International Film Festival, it'll say North American premiere. That means it's not going to be a teller. They used to be a big battle between the two of them. Yes. Yes. If it says Canadian premiere, that almost certainly

25:13means it's going to be a teller. 100%. So with something like Wild Horse 9, we don't know. But my time from 18 to 22 was going to these festivals and being promised 40 minutes and then of an interview with someone and then it being reduced to about nine. Yeah. And then calling an editor being like, I'm so sorry, we have three questions. That was my 20s except I didn't get to go to the film festivals. So congratulations. Part of the believe you're now hosting a long form interview show. It's like you're getting your revenge in real time. And I like to think of it that way. Yes. 100%. A lot of credit card debt. That's how it happened. Okay. Well, that's that. Okay. We can talk about that later. It's all thankfully. Oh good. I'm glad. Just 30. Are you any dead right now? Next one. Financial moral. Good try. Okay. I'm going to have to rethink best performer. No. Okay. I know what I'll do. As of this recording and I guess of the airing, I have not yet seen Robert Pattinson in prime time. I mean, listen, Robert Pattinson could go in any of these

26:18categories for me. One of my favorite working movie stars in terms of the movies that he chooses, the performances that he can give. He is a wonderful campaigner and press tour a person in his own right. And I think that he could be in consideration for at least three performances this year. I haven't seen junior yet, but maybe that could also be on the list as well. He's certainly one meme of the year for these beggars out of here. This is a movie about Chris Hansen. Mm-hmm. I'm just right. Yes. To catch a predator. Big night plan. Oh, who are you? She has a seat right there. I'm Chris Hansen with Dayline NBC and we're doing a story on adults who try to mute teens online. You see how this looks, right? And I think that it is going to be a pretty classic first 10

27:21minutes Robert Pattinson. If you've seen the trailer, which is available of, oh, we're doing this. In voice in in persona in campiness and I also completely believe in Robert Pattinson then to pull it off. Very excited about this movie. Yeah. Me too. I cannot wait. Lansop and Hime very talented guy. Yes. Indeed. I think it's going to be really good. I'm jealous. That was on my list. That was on my short list. Yeah, I'm on to. I guess since performers go in fast, I'm going to let me see if this flies. Since you didn't say that it needs to be performer with one film, I'm going to choose a performer with three films and that much like Pattinson had six Sandra Hewler has three. She's going to be nominated for one of these three movies. I don't know which one. If I had to guess, I'll say Fatherland right now, especially given the way that it was received at Cannes. We both liked it. I don't know if we absolutely love the movie. That's the filmmaker behind Ida and Cold War. And I would say that it is ranked third in that trilogy of

28:28a post-posed film. You know, post-war or Cold War black and white dramas. Is it similarly painterly and black and white in all this? Anaculately photographed. It's very good. I thought the ending was moving. I liked it a lot. I do too. It's very modest. It's only 77 minutes. Wow. Thomas Mann. Was it 72? That's what I texted you. I said, I did it with credit. It's a very brief film, very deep though, about Germany after the war. And about what role men and women of culture should play in the reconstruction or lack thereof of the German identity, which is heavy stuff. But she's obviously an amazing performer. We were talking about anatomy. But, a fall earlier, I think that's the film where she really got on the radar of a lot of American or American film fans. And yeah, she's kind of, everyone is caught on. So I expect to see her at the Academy Awards. Yeah, I think so. I had that on my list as well. I have another pick. For FYC, I'll do LeBol and Egra. I'm just picking

29:33canned titles just because I'm I can be sure of them. LeBol and Egra, aka the black ball, is a Spanish film that premiered at Cannes, directed by Los Javis, a pair of filmmakers who were formerly boyfriends. And I've since broken up, but have made this massive three hour epic across three different timelines about queer love and poetry and war and violence and generational self-hate that really took my breath away at Cannes. And it's a movie that like I didn't really know very much about. I'd not seen anything from from from Los Javis before. And the festival, which was a lot of fun to attend, but I would say was a fairly muted as Cannes goes. I think needed like a real kick in its ass and this movie, which is very sort of like chest out, unafraid to be a vivacious, magisterial, you know, 90s Miramax style, awards player,

30:34and a film about very serious ideas. Without Weinstein. Minus the Weinstein, hopefully minus the Chicanery. Netflix picked the movie up. So it is going to be on the Netflix streaming service at the end of this year. However, it is getting a very long theatrical release window 47 days, I think. Which is highly unusual for the company. But I know understand. So they want movies and theaters or they don't want movies and theaters. I don't think they know. Or they like it sometimes. Right now. I think they like it sometimes. I think they want what they want when they want it and they don't want what they don't want when they don't and they have a lot of money. And I I interpreted this as less a referendum on their. I feel like she's running for office. As less a referendum on their theatrical strategy and more that they think level and Egra will be a big awards contender. And that and to Sean's point about it being big and sweeping and a theatrical like a thing you have to go see in theaters. The closest that they can get to the Odyssey, which is buying it after the fact from a film festival that they're not allowed to sit in movies too. But and so they want to

31:36lean into that. This is a big deal. It feels like the English patient. Yeah. It's a very big and I think they're trying to signal that it is a big deal. I will say I had left can at this point in the festival. So I didn't get to see it. And Sean and I both see a lot of movies and don't really feel the need to communicate to each other that often about it and or we save it for the show. But this one was a rare. He texted me like walking out of the theater. This was in you know, this was incredible. I was really blown away by it. And I only get those from Sean when they're amazing and or the worst movie you've ever seen. I'm very memorable one from Tell Your Ride. Sam Mendez. Yeah. Oh, no. I live here. Coleman. Colin Firth. And it's supposed to be about you know, cinema. Yeah. And okay, sorry. I started interrupting your pick. Let's see. So listen in FYC. I may have over definitely listening. I'm deaf. I'm going to do it. I'm going to touch the third rail. In FYC, I will take he's laughing, but you can't you can't rail me in FYC, I will

32:38take digger the Wow in a retufel starring Tom Cruise in FYC. Right. Not in best picture. Okay. Not in best performance. Not unconsciously optimistic. Okay. But in Tom Cruise. Okay. Out and about standing on buildings, water towers, other structures, high in the air, the Bill Simmons podcast. Hi, I got willing. I would love it. I don't know anything. Well, see Tom Cruise is the movie star of our lifetimes in many ways for both good and bad. He's fascinating. Does that mean I think the film will be good? No, I don't know. I'm not having. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. Did you see it? I haven't seen it. I had I was in a screening last week and I had a critic friend lean over. He was seated behind me and say, Hey, have you heard anything about digger? Like there is a real cone of silence around the movie right now. Will I enjoy the content around it though?

33:40Yeah. Well, enjoy is interesting. Will I consume and think a lot about these bars are getting lower and lower? Also, your competing against yourself. These are these are questions. Listen, it's it's going to be fascinating. It's a great pick. I had it in consciously optimistic. I'm not cautiously optimistic. I was just looking forward to it. I'm very specific. Against all my better judgment. I love the man. I don't know what to say. I like formative. I mean, I love his movies. I'll say unconsciously optimistic. I'll take the social reckoning. Oh my god. We're not the right. We're the public square. Are you crazy? You're like a crossing god standing in front of the school, but you're not doing anything with your arms. So the cars are just plowing down the children. Okay. Wow. Even with the reshoots. My guy, let's talk about it. Where are their reshoots? Oh, no, I'm breaking this to you now. I'm so sorry. It's okay. There were reshoots. When when this summer, yeah, like three weeks ago, which is way worse than the clip. I mean,

34:43I guess you set the rules of this. So if you'd like to take it back, you're not taking it back. Okay. Reshoots are common. Let's just say for the record. Yeah. Movies bake into their budgets, reshooting, especially big tenfold movies because they know often for the big picture, doing constant reshooting. Yeah. Touch ups all the time. Touch up digital. Yeah. I mean, the budget, man, that's why you had a part of a 100 million. Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, however, when you're getting within 10 weeks of release, you don't want to be lining up. Yeah. That's not ideal. Consciously optimistic. So what is your relationship as a younger millennial? Oh, thanks. To the social network. One of my favorite films. Okay. All right. We got a lot of 25 years. We did a project on the big picture 25 or 25 movies of the 25 years. Well, I don't know if your listeners do. I'm trying to take some. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. No, no. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not trying to take off some of the expositional love. Sorry. They do a podcast. Um, it's really good. Thank you. So the social network was number one. Yes. And you know, we had a number of rules. You could only have one film per

35:44director on the list. And we also, we had to agree, which we do have overlapping taste, but it can be quite distinct. But the social network was never really an argument. It's always been the movie that for us defined a particular generation and era in movie going and what, you know, what a movie can be. Yeah. And style. But young people have always sort of said to us, what's the big deal? Like that it is a real okay grandpa. Go to bed. And I understand that if you were born after Facebook, you know, died off, um, that it doesn't reveal the same things about the world or even movies to you. But I'm glad to hear that you feel that way. So they don't like sex. Yeah. They don't like the social network. I guess so. Well, don't know what to say. Some correlation there. I'm definitely very confusing. Um, I'll take in family affair. Mm-hmm. The adventures of Cliff Booth. Okay. Which we are told is going to come out on November 25th. This is a film you're going to show to children. I don't, I don't have children. Yeah. I, so just family have to involve our nuclear

36:51family. I was not defining it that way. It can, it can include extended family. Contents a film that comes out around Thanksgiving. Uh-huh. Or Christmas. I get it that you could presumably watch with your family. I don't know what you're showing your children. I, I can't take the thing. What I've been told about the movie, which is very little. The only thing I've really been told about it is that it is a foul mouthed comedy. Yeah. Which is unsurprising if you look at people behind the film. Maybe I should add some context. In my family, my mother showed me bookie nights and my father showed me good fellows. And I think that's really all at a young age, like maybe 10 or 11. Okay. So I may be not, I'm not the best judge. I think that's good parenting. Yeah. I mean, I, I look, I turned out adventures of Cliff Booth is tricky in my family because many, or some of the scenes were filmed in my neighborhood. Or, you know, kind of one street nearby last summer. And they, because Fincher has a huge budget from Netflix, just, you know, had huge sets and lights and, well, not sets, but lots of staging and big cranes for the lighting

37:54and everything. And I just took my then three-year-old son to look at the cranes because that's a thing that he likes to do. This is not, yes, my older son. And he has a memory like a steel trap. So he knows that once upon a time in Hollywood, too, was filmed near his home. And he wants to be able to see it. But I'll take him. Yeah, that'd be nice. And I'm actually. Yeah. And then, and then they're going to call me from school and say, no, it's a saying some bad words again. This also could have been cautiously optimistic. That's where I had it. I was told also by the two of you that there were reshoots, which I, I guess I'm taking the movies that are recently adding news to it. Again, reshoots happen. Yeah. Sometimes you learn and you want to be able to do things better if you have the budget and the time to be able to do it. I think it's a testimony to just how much more information we have about movies like this is something that's been happening for many, many, many years. But see, I don't think we have more information. I think we have more surface level information because it's all the time. That's still information. Okay. Well, let me just go try. Every time we have a film maker on and I get to go back and like read the premiere magazine pieces

38:57or the, the things that people said about the productions, that's like all gone. Yes. Now all we know is like, yeah, the date has been moved or like the budget's over 30 million, but the budget numbers are never real anyway. I feel like we, I don't, it's not as interesting of information. I think it's just because the Insta-Tanayity has allowed for people to be more cautious about how they communicate. Yeah. As soon as they say something, it's going to arrive. When you were talking to a journalist who was holding a tape recorder in 1994, you're like, this may never come out. Yeah. And you're also, because this is true as well for celebrity profiles, you go back and you read times or vanity fair profiles from the 80s and 90s. And what very famous people are willing to say on the record changes. I think some of that is just because there are fewer outlets and fewer places to say things. So you don't have to parcel out. Well, I'm going to tell this story over here and this pen. Then I'll save this for my social media clip. Horrifying. And then I think also because even if the media was, was broader, it still didn't have this intense smothering quality that we

40:00have now. So you didn't have to be quite as guarded. It's a lot of like on the set BTS photos. Yeah. Like I have seen 80 photos of Greta Lee and Rebecca Ferguson in some movie. 80 more. Yeah. I mean, of course. And as Sean mentioned last night on one of the movie group chats that we're on on every single group chat, you know, I was on several about the hookers. He's on he's on many more. He's on a lot of men only group chats. Well, they're not men only. I mean, there's one that has several men. Sure. You won't let women in. Is that a role? Not the arbiter of that group chat. I didn't create it. I don't run it. Who does run that? I'd rather say that they mostly talk about are they your boss? No, my boss is not. No, no, no. We when when our boss wants to let us know about movies, he he texted us directly. Is it a voice memo or a phone call? Never a voice memo. And we don't do voice. Like when you call me on the phone, I'm like, oh, no, something's wrong. Yeah, it's true. What was the last time you called on the phone?

41:02It's been a while. Was it before or after the Netflix deal? We had that conversation in person. We did. I've talked to this before. One, my parents were divorced and I was growing up. And my dad, one of the really nice things that he did was he called me every day. He called me in my siblings every day. So I talked to my dad on the phone every day from 11 through 18. And I because of about a hate talking on the phone now, I never want to talk on the phone. So anytime someone calls me, it's always straight to voicemail unless I know it's like an urgent matter. Secondarily, we talk for a living professionally like eight hours a week. We are talking all the time. So we don't really have to we don't have to talk that much together. I don't know if they're a putic. I would be I think psychologically interesting. It's certainly, you know, I just I wonder whether case studies could be done. I think they are actively every week on the feed. No, they're being done unfortunately. Well, we'll go back to that in a second episode. You have a pick. So in family. Yeah. So I'm taking the I'm not showing my sons this because I

42:06think they would be scared. So I'm taking the more traditional your home with your family. And until I had children, I would travel home for Thanksgiving and Christmas and on Thanksgiving and Christmas night, I would always go to the movies with my dad. So I was back in Georgia. This is in Atlanta. Yes. And he did have a habit of picking wildly holiday and appropriate movies. For a while, we took the we took the decision making power away from him. So you're going the other way with your family. Yes. So you've learned you've learned the lessons of your childhood. But I am picking a film by a director that my father and I both love James Gray, who's already been mentioned. So I'm taking paper tiger. I really liked it. I did too. I really liked it. And I think my dad would like it. I remember that we saw two lovers together, which was. That's my favorite. It's my second favorite to Laugh City of Z. But I also really love it. And also my dad and I had once they go to a restaurant in that film in New York that my dad and I had once been to. Yeah. Which I wondered what that restaurant was. I think it's called Santa Mennico. It used to be

43:08on Central Park West. It's no longer there. Adam Driver Scarlett Johansson. And it very much plays like a B side to to Armageddon time, which I also really like. And frankly, a B side to most of his films. It has a lot of echoes of a lot of his movies. But fathers and sons, brothers, he just cannot get away. Yeah. It's interesting. A world of crime. A terrible incident happens and it's worked their way through it. Just feel about a little Odessa. Like it's been like this forever. Yes. It's a great movie. It's in New York. Everyone's on the take all the time. They're not going to touch me. What about me? They can touch me. Is water cooler still a category? No. Okay. No. No. God. I really like that category. What would you have picked? Well, Sean, why didn't you say anything? Okay. I'll do best picture. But I'm going to talk about this as though it's a water cooler. It's called fjord. I really thought I was going to have this. You thought you were going to have the Palm Door winner? Yeah. I said it a fifth round. This is a Palm Door winner. Yeah.

44:10Just to set some expectations for you. Like we aren't being nicer. Why don't we not be nicer? Did not be nicer. Romanian filmmaker Christian Mungi. The movie is first movie in four years. Sebastian Stan. Sebastian San Ronaldo Rinesva are the stars. Sebastian Stan plays a Romanian man who has moved with his family and his Norwegian wife to Norway. A man of God made really bad. That was really good. Really good. This movie is about childcare, parenting, and social systems within more socialist states. And how what responsibility the state has to us and what we have to it. It is a movie that is an amazing Rorschach test for what you think a movie should do. Whether they should be moral arbiters or they should be explorations of ideas without certain final thoughts. I've heard it's a film that's going to cause a lot of debate,

45:12a lot of frustration online and stuff. I think so. It clearly made some people very angry. I mean, it clearly did not make the jury a Canberra angry because going into the festival, I thought for sure this is going to be a mungute like one of the great international filmmakers. I have one a poem before but had maybe not been as recognized by certainly in World's In Movo, not in North American cinema, but it has movie stars. And yeah, one, which I moved off of in the middle of the festival for some God for Saken reason. I do remember in Europe the theater seats are smaller. So we were crammed next to each other in the small seats and we walked out of the theater and Sean had to stop in the lobby to kind of share publicly to like your touchdown dance, right? To spike the football and be like, I called Fjord just soft-jord. I'm right about Fjord. And then somehow between that moment and the moment when we recorded our podcast, you were talked off your own self-belief and mythologizing

46:14to pick Minator as the Palm Door winner instead of Fjord. And you did it all in public. I watched it all happen. You do this every single time. Do you not trust your instincts? No. Not at the end. At the beginning, I'm extremely sure of myself. Yes, we call this the way it comes to predicting movies at award shows. Yeah, that's a struggle I have. We call this the F1 now in Big Picture Land because Sean for months and months talked about how last year he felt that F1 would get a best picture nomination. And then when we recorded our official best Big Picture Oscars nominations prediction podcast, he left F1 off of the his list. Sure enough, wake up at five in the morning, Oscars morning, F1, they're on the best picture. It's just he F1s. I have great ideas. I lack follow-through. I feel like the fallder is not that bad. You got to have guts. What do you have like almost a thousand episodes?

47:15I think there's some follow-through. Yeah, I like to work. Yeah, that's true. Okay, I have another pick. Fjord's a good pick. Yeah, and I like to move very much and I look forward to arguing about it. And about Scandinavia. Is box office still a category? No, John. What happened here? This is why I was doing the news. And I read the category instead of talking to you. Here's what you have left, Sean. How about that? Well, that would be really helpful. Okay, you have family affair. Uh-huh. You have cautiously optimistic. Okay. And that's it. Okay. Family affair, I'm taking Hexed. Don't even know what this is. I know what it is, but I don't care. Go ahead. It's a Disney animated or Vex. It's Hexed. Hexed? Vexed is my forthcoming sequel about working with Amanda. I It's kind of generous. I hope it's great. I Disney original animated feature films, big part of my history following a lot of movies. It's a wholesome pick. Yeah, thank you. I know

48:18nothing about it, but not something. The category is called family affair and you're taking cliff booths. Like, what are what's happening? Can I tell you Sean, it's a reflection of my family versus yours. All right. I guess all families are different. What's the Hemingway quote? All. That's Tolstoy. Tolstoy. Tolstoy. Yeah, you're there. Yeah. What is it? But a rhyme? Yeah. All happy families are happy, like all unhappy families are unhappy in their own way. I think that's the beginning of Anna Krona. Yeah. Maybe it's more in peace. Anyway, it is Tolstoy. Yeah. You've read all of Anna Krona. Yeah, but just that one. Not more in peace yet. No, that's not gonna be next year. Not a chance. Not a chance. You know me in the Russians. Is this a big thing? I, well, I haven't done a lot of work with the Russians. That was not a part of my love like our government. Am I right? Thank God. Thank God. That's actually my love. I can't and didn't see me in a tour. We're hoping for a jam on episode two. This is good. Okay. That's right around the corner. My next pick, Sam, gave to me in the doc, which is in Wildcard, making Rian Twinnett, which is, which I was a beautiful pick and I felt seen and understood,

49:21like you did in research. But Rian Twinnett is, first of all, stars Kirsten Dunn's one of my favorite movie stars. And to me is the clearest summation of the Sofia Coppola project. And on the biggest canvas and is hilarious and amazing to me that that's what she wanted to do and that she pulled it off and that it works. It is celebrating its 20th anniversary this year. It's very excited. And many anniversary celebrations and among them a documentary that Sofia Coppola's late mother, Eleanor Coppola, who also directed Hearts of Darkness, had started. She was on set and was filming a lot of the footage. And then I believe that Sofia Coppola herself finished the documentary of her mother's work after she passed, which is sad and beautiful. And the, you know, Hearts of Darkness is obviously historic. And there is something very interesting about the way in which a film maker

50:31captures her own child and the way that a daughter of two filmmakers in Eleanor and Francis Ford Coppola talks about film and what she learned from her various parents. Eleanor Coppola, it was a wonderful writer as well as documentaries. It sounds great. And it did sound like up your alley. It is very much so. I'll take in wildcard once upon a time in Harlem. Now this is William Greaves and David Greaves set in 1972. It's this old historic footage they found seemingly excavated from God knows where of all the surviving Harlem Renaissance legends. And they reunite in like Duke Ellington's apartment. And it is such an amazing, the kind of thing not dissimilar to this document. It's going to come out where you wonder like how long I had that feeling watching the Questlove documentary of some sort of soul. Where you wonder like how long has someone been sitting on this and where has it been? It's totally a match for making regants when I took it to the sun completing his father's work. Exactly.

51:35And it's just I just loved it. And I feel I hope people see it. I think Neon is putting it out. So that will be my pick. A very kind of shallow thought that I had about it was we should just be filming more parties that have a purpose. Like that that's basically just a social gathering. We should be having more parties to have a purpose number one. But there was like there was a philosophical intent. Yeah. That social gathering, which is sort of like to explicate as a participant in this movement what you think it represented at large and what it represented to you to sort of define it for yourself in a group of your peers. And it creates this like amazing, fructive energy amongst the participants. It's so cool. There's a there's an ongoing debate throughout the film about what the Renaissance meant when it began, when it ended and what part of it? What composed it? You know, what art forms were more meaningful than others? Like it's a really vibrant movie intellectually in that way. And I feel like we're just like yeah, such a like a lousy dim, unintellectual society right now. Or we don't really like when we do

52:39this, it's like to go to the mountains to some like billionaires retreat to talk about the future of making money through AI. How many times have you gone to dialogues? Well, I have one twice a week. So I don't have to attend any of them. You're looking. Yeah, I found it. I really love the movie. And I hope people see it. And I will take in best picture. Man, it's hard. I'll do behemoth. Okay. Interesting. It's going to get nominated. behemoth. exclamation point to kind of bring us back to the beginning. The spring and the summer had a lot of good stuff. And the farther along you go in this list, because so much has been punted. It's not that robust. Like the Oscar stuff is pretty slim. Or has already been released. Yeah, or it's been released. And it's great. And maybe a little more mainstream or more movies people have seen, which is always a good thing for the Oscars, even if it does nothing to up the

53:43Oscars television rating. Have you two seen this movie? I have. Okay. And I'm forbidden from sharing my phone. So do you want to do you want to also hear something? I haven't seen it yet. It's good. Say nothing for five seconds. Are you allowed to? I can't say anything. That was a six second mark. Okay. For a while, we thought this movie was going to be at Venice. Then we thought this movie was going to be at Tell You Right. Now it's going to be at the New York Film Festival, which is a wonderful film festival, but does not immediately suggest to me that it is on a on the fast track. A collision course with best picture. Yes, exactly. I could be wrong. And many great films have come out of the New York Film Festival. And the kind of festival hierarchy is shifting. Will also say the trailer. I was concerned that there were no words. There was no there's no dialogue in that trailer. I understand that it's about music. And I eat what? Anyway, you like the movie with words. I also remember your father said this a lot. I do. And my

54:45father, I think, at the at my wedding gave a toast about how he doesn't, but it's okay. And invoked Kouramaq McCarthy, I think. Is that right? That is right. Wow. It's okay. It was a nice speech. Yeah, I know. Shout out to my dad. It's better for therapy, probably. Yeah. We will. It's already done. Let's see. Oh, you resolved it? I think so. Really good job. Thank you so much. I mean, I worked at it for a long time, but I did eventually graduate from therapy. Are you tired? For right now. I mean, it's sort of like an on and on. I think has never been. Yeah, I remember the last time. No, I haven't been in therapy. I was in therapy when I was a teenager. Okay. Yeah, but not since then. Okay. And you don't think it's worth your time. Wouldn't say that. It's just not something I feel I need at the moment. I feel I need. Now others may feel I need it. I feel I don't need it. No, in general, I'm so grateful for the therapy that I had. And I think I used some important skills. And now I kind of think I'm done. And I think I at some point it can be diminishing returns. Hmm. Well, I like the idea that people are going to listen to this and watch and go,

55:47yeah, these are two resolved normal normal people in total control. It is true. It's no anxiety. It's joke already. We don't need to talk about things other places. Okay. What do you have? What do you have left? I'm consciously optimistic yet. Okay. Great. And so you had a category previously called in the pocket of, I'm going to turn cautiously optimistic into cautiously optimistic because I am in the pocket of, right? Luca Guadagnino. Oh, I just want to have fun. I know that the reports on artificial are are dubious. It is widely rumored to be the secret screening at the New York Film Festival, which by the way last year was Marty Supreme, one of my favorite movies of the year. This is a movie about Sam Altman directed by Luca Guadagnino starring Andrew Garfield as Sam Altman that was being released by Amazon and then Amazon dropped it over concerns about conflicts in representation and business and was sold to Neon reportedly at a discount. And now

56:52Neon is releasing it this fall. Hmm. Whether or not it's good really could be up in the air. I thought that 90 to 100 minutes of Luca Guadagnino's last movie, starring Julia Roberts helped me with the name here. After the hunt. After the hunt. Yes. Was not a very memorable movie in my opinion. Well, I remember certain things about it very clearly and with a great enjoyment. I love the credit sequence and the font. I thought that was great. It's sure. Well, that was a little yellow film. Yeah. I really just reminded me of it. There was a beautiful striped couch in that psychotherapist office speaking of that is much nicer than any of the couches my therapist ever had. Anyway, artificial. Okay, artificial. Don't be coward. Just show it to us. Okay. I agree. Do I have a pick? Yeah. Okay. What is it? It's cautiously optimistic. I'm gonna fucking John. Best performer. No, I picked that already. Sandra Hewler. Fuck you did. Yeah. That's what I said. This is what it's like to podcast

57:57with me. You want it in. Yeah. I will take what move ink. Yeah. New Danny Boyle. Two. New Danny Boyle film. I also cautiously. I had this on the list. I'm excited about this movie and enterprising reporter who goes to work for Rupert Murdoch's. Rupert Murdoch is buying a versioning newspaper empire. Yes. Okay. And so I think it's Rupert Murdoch's kind of invasion into the UK and Fleet Street. And Gai Pierce plays Rupert Murdoch. Jack O'Connell plays one of the reporters. Claire Foy is also in it because she's British. And one of my favorite working actors. I'm excited. I'm gonna open this paper story. I get the impression that it's not a big blustery Oscar movie that it's just like kind of an adult drama, which is what I think like artificial is gonna turn out to be like I think a lot of these movies that we're talking about, which we want to confer this kind of great importance on are just gonna be movies for adults, which is something that like we've been talking about on the show for the last year or so that there does seem to be like some hide shifting where it's like it's okay if a movie that starts Gai Pierce and Jack O'Connell

59:00doesn't make $300 million and just goes to Netflix and we sit down and we watch and we enjoy it. Like I'm in this phase of my life. I'm choosing to accept that. You're putting in the work. And why don't we talk about how you guys do that after the break. It's going to be next with Amanda Dobbins and Sean Finnecy. After I come over from a trip, the places I remember most usually aren't the ones I planned to visit in the first place. Let me give you an example. I was doing a few tapings in Philadelphia just a few months back and in between those tapings, I'd have just a little bit of time to wander. And one morning I found myself walking through this neighborhood called Society Hill and it was early in the morning that weren't that many people awake. I was grabbing a coffee and all of a sudden I noticed that a bookstore was just beginning to open and I kind of sheepishly but excitedly walked into this bookstore and evidently those are the moments I remember most about the trip. They tell you more about a city than any guide book ever could and honestly that's one of the reasons I've been thinking about listing my space on Airbnb.

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1:03:11So that was the movie draft. Really you guys are very good at this. What do you think that was your first? Yeah. If I came on your show I'd be more aggressive and prepared but I spent most of my time preparing to actually just do an interview with you guys. I like my pic so I felt pretty confident about it. You guys clowned me for the social reckoning. Haven't heard the best things about it. That's you know I'm just being honest. That's why I was cautiously optimistic. Did you enjoy the film being the Ricardo's? Oh because Aaron's horned her. He directed it. Yeah. It's about how someone made a phone call at the last minute so Lucy didn't have to. Jay and your Hoover save. Oh that's right. I love Lucy. Yeah. I still ridiculously and stupidly like the newsroom and Jeff Daniels and me Tim and Emily Mortimer. It is complete nonsense. I'm with you Sam. And so I want to go back to 2011. Amanda you're working at New York magazine. Sean I think you're a senior editor at GQ. Before you two met in the fall of that year I think it was at a Christmas party.

1:04:17What did you what how was it going for you guys? I wanted to work at New York magazine. Yeah. I was working for the website. I started at Vulture and then did get to start writing magazine pieces because I worked there for Adam Moss. An absolute legend. And someone who gave young people careers and just said let's try this person. He saw the talent and everyone and in addition to being one of the great editors who's kind of diffused the entire magazine with his sensibility. So in that part in that sense I was doing very well. I was also 27. Yes 27 and Clueless and in New York and not making very much money. And I wasn't Tina Brown and that era of becoming a magazine editor and specifically a Kanye and asked editor and that being a viable profession. That was crumbling even when we were there. We had survived the financial crisis sort of in the

1:05:17shuttering of a lot of magazines but it was a very remarkable difference. So was the same true at GQ at that time. I think it's a little hard for me to have perspective on that. I had worked at mostly music magazines up until that point and then vibe folded in 2009 where I was working as a music editor and I had a little bit of an interregnum between magazines. I worked at this company called E-Music in 2010 and that feels very 2010. I was an editor but I was like a merchandising manager at that company and I thought I had kind of like maybe missed like lost like I just like I wasn't I felt ascendant until that point where I was getting better and better jobs at magazines and then when I got to that job I was like okay well maybe I'll just be like a freelance writer and I'll have kind of a day job that's satellite to this space. And then I got the job at GQ and the job was editing the website which to me was very exciting but was clearly kind of second class at the magazine.

1:06:20So even though I was writing for the magazine on a pretty consistent basis I wasn't really a decision maker at the magazine and at the magazine it still felt like Valhalla. It was like the gym Nelson era. It was a gym Nelson era. Every person in that room was whip smart. It felt incredibly experienced. It felt cooler and smarter than me. It was still very aspirational for me because I was like okay I got another chance to get back into this thing and I'm going to kind of pour everything I have into gq.com which was really really hard to do given how Condi asked the thought about the internet at that time. I don't think that that much of it. At least not financially I mean they just really were not willing to turn much over to it and they were turning so much over to the print product. So I was struggling but kind of content I was like okay I like I made it into that building in Brian parts. You built me in similar spots around 2011. Yeah. So my understanding is that there's a holiday party for New York magazine at a bar called the Wouli. Is that how this goes? I think so. I think so. It's what I remember as well. I had met my husband Zach Barron who works

1:07:26at GQ. He always gets mad when I don't say his last name. A few months before. He's just a president of a small nation. He's just like give me the byline. He don't I mean anyway. He's a very good writer. Thank you very. I love his profile. Speaking of someone still trying to do the profiling of yesterday. Yeah absolutely. Zach is very much doing it. I want to do one of the last. Was that sufficient name-jacking? Yes. Yeah. Thank you so much. But so I met Zach at press screenings for movies before and but I don't know that you were at any of those press screenings. I don't think so. You met after a press screening of what's your number? Yes. With Anna Ferris. Yes. And Chris Evans. Which did you ever think if that movie was better? Maybe you two wouldn't have something like to commiserate over afterward. So in fact, we- This is kind of like your butterfly effect moment here. It's true. In fact, we were not commiserating and as I recall it Zach was saying rather controversial things about the film not in a positive way. It's like Caesar and Cleopatra.

1:08:28It's an amazing romantic origin story. Is that how you describe it? Well speaking of J. Edgar Hoover, we ran into each other at many other movie screenings including J. Edgar. Which was the same day that Drake Take care came out. Yeah. And it was very- Speaking of J. Edgar, we- A lot of wiretaping. But I remember sitting next to him during this terrible movie. Yeah. And I didn't really know him and I didn't really know if I liked him but there weren't that many seats left. So he's like, you can sit here. So if that one had been better. But at this holiday party, Sean, you have said when you met Amanda for the first time, quote, that was also the time- That was also the moment where I identified that you and Zach were going to get married. So I want to know how did you know that in December of 2011? I mean, maybe that's overstating a little bit but I knew immediately something was happening. And I didn't know that something had really gone on before that because he hadn't really mentioned her to me. But I was just- I was trying to be like fun guy at the holiday party where I was like, oh, I'm with my friend and I just

1:09:30met this girl and we're having like a funny conversation. Oh, she works in New York Mag. She must be cool. And within like 90 seconds, I was like, they don't want me here. Like I have to leave. I sort of remember this actually. Yeah. And- Did he felt like a third wheel? I think that he understood that he was just going to move- Yeah. It's what our conversation and despite all evidence to the contrary, Sean can be socially deft when he needs to be. So- It is hard to believe. He saw his way out of that. Even when it's a compliment, it's a little bit of a bad kind of my lifestyle. Um, yeah. So I watched them hit it off and I don't- were you dating very shortly after that? Well, yes. We started dating around then but it was fairly casual as one way of putting it and or Zach was 29 and you know behaving as 29-year-olds do in New York. And you and Chris Ryan, our colleague and good friend and also a friend of my husbands,

1:10:31moved to Los Angeles for Grandland. And so my husband looked around and was like, oh, most of my friends don't live here anymore. I guess I can have a serious girlfriend now. Oh. That's not how he communicated it. I don't think that's what happened but that's what I made. But I do actually- you were talking about what ifs. I think that if not for Grandland, Zach and I would not be married. So thank you, Bill Simmons. Did you thank Disney and your vows? No. They did move me out to Los Angeles. They literally paid for my move. It was great. So, just one finer question. Yeah. He identified the two of you were going to get married. Yeah. Did you? Well, I mean, that's some good post, you know, and the realization. This a version of what you're saying was Sean's toast at our wedding, which was wonderful and very moving. But so, you know, Sean is magazine trained and is a great writer and editor and so he knows how to- He knows how to- He knows how to- Spending a yarn. He knows how to find the poll quote. But I do think yes that we knew that there was something

1:11:32that that was the night that we were like, oh, okay, maybe something is going to happen here. I will say I vividly recall having a conversation with Zach about Amanda in a later December before I moved. That was like this might be real basically. I'm pocketed. Yeah. Yeah. That was not communicated to me for some months. And so whatever story that she tells herself about our extraction from the city becoming- Listen, there was a- I mean, there was an incident on St. Patrick's Day where it was sort of like a 1030, you know, not quite you up sort of thing, but we had plans. And then we did not have plans until much later and I was like this is unacceptable. We did not get to celebrate St. Patrick's Day together appropriately. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. But I was on St. Patrick's Day and that's when he kind of got it together. But listen, you know, dating in your 20s. And I survived dating in my 20s in Brooklyn, New York. So- And honestly, an award- You should receive- Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. It sounds like this would be like the basis of what would become the big picture. Is that

1:12:35how it felt for you meeting a bunch of guys? I think so. Talking about comic books. I vividly remember Sean and Andy and Sean- Other Sean, Sean Howe sitting across the table from me and just dropping a lot of things like quite frankly, like I had just never heard some of these words uttered before. Like what? I mean, at that point, Thanos, like it was Thanos in that- He peers in the stinger Why do I know who that is? You're saying it like it's a racial slur. In some ways to Amanda, he would become that- I just didn't 2012. I just can't and I was pop culture conversant and it had had had read many things, had spoken to a lot of people, and the comic book world was just did not exist to me. I just didn't know anything about it. And these men did and they were passionate about it. We were. And at that point, I don't think I had the disdain that I do now and I'm trying to let go of because I hadn't been through- It was fresh. It was not 15 years that people saying Thanos at me, you know? Though that became a good bit.

1:13:40And I don't think I felt that night. I was like, oh, I've got a chemistry with that person. You don't think that way or just like that's a person that I kind of know. This is an opportunity for me to be a bloviating clown. But in an entertaining way, hopefully. And that was my social strategy. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I do think that many of the ringer podcasts are based on the DNA. And we say this often of the, if not the smartest person at the bar, then the person who is trying to be the smartest and the funniest at the bar. And much of that is based on all of us drinking a little too much from the years of 2004 to 2012 and trying to impress each other at flat bush barn, you know, or similar or Charlene's or the magician or, you know, insert bar of that era, shout out botanica forever. So I think that we didn't recognize it as commoditizable in that moment. But we were certain it was an important part of our training as important as the magazine part.

1:14:44So that was a training. Then 2016 comes around. The ringer's created. I think just, yeah, we're a decade in. I mean, I got married three days before the ringer launched. So let's skip ahead then because when you start the show, it's just you Sean. Your interviewing filmmakers, I think it came from Bill Simmons. You said, quote, he was tired of hearing me talk about movies. And he said, why don't you do a podcast? Yeah. What's the conversation that was had between you two or between you and Bill that said, okay, it's time to have a co-host. I remember vividly. And if I've told this already, I apologize. He told me he wanted the show to go to twice a week. And that it was should have its own feed. And I was like, sounds good boss. I guess this is something I'm doing. A lot of our friends and colleagues that already had shows them in already had a show. She was on a show called Jam Sessions. She's still on. And I had never done like a chat show. But the rewatchables, I think had started around this time. And I had made a couple of appearances on there. And I think it

1:15:48was a couple of appearances on there that encouraged Bill to be like, you should really pursue this. As more of an enterprise, not just your job. I was the editor in chief of the website at the time. And I had the first episode I did after this announcement, I mean, it was with Paul Dana. And he was on for his film Wild Life. And we had a nice conversation. It was like 40, 45 minute chat. And I love that movie. And I love him as an actor. And you know, I read podcast guest. Is it really, really thoughtful? Smart guy. Also, maybe best Carrie Mulligan performance. I think so. So I was really happy with that episode. And he called me. And he was like, this is not right. This is not he's like the interview. He was like the interviews are fine. You know, I'm sure that was a good chat that you had with Paul. And I'm certainly didn't listen to it. I would love to know the number of interviews on the big picture of the bills listened to. I think it's probably less than 10. Do you think you heard the Spielberg one? I do. Because we talked about it. Out of 10 is pretty low because you've done hundreds. I've done hundreds.

1:16:52But he was like, you need to have like a top or segment that is a conversation about the world of movies at the top of this, which is like something I kind of knew he wanted. But I'm not sure that I was so interested in doing that specifically. In part, because I knew I knew what had happened to him, which is you become a slave to your show. And once you start doing that, then you're on the treadmill. And I maybe wasn't sure if that was something I felt I could do given the other things I was doing. But I was like, okay, I understand. And I'm in and I had already done a couple of episodes like this at least where you came on, we talked about Mother, the Darren Aaron Oskey film. When he brought this up, you laughed right away at this. Do you remember this moment as well? Well, I think it started as it come to Oscars with me. We always watched them together and argued about them. And so that seemed very natural. And we were doing that as friends. Yeah. And also the prospect of just disagreeing loudly with Sean, which was something that was very natural to me. I remember arguing about the last season of Mad Men in the dearly departed hot bird. Another Brooklyn bar. So anyway, yes, it was because

1:17:57wildlife came out in October. It was the fall. We were getting ready to start covering the Oscars as we are right now. And I asked Amanda if she would join me to do the show to talk about the Academy Awards. And I don't remember if it was presented as like, this is a permanent condition. You're ready for the next 10 years of your life. No. And I certainly was it because well, what I'm going to talk about the next 10 years of your life. Um, Amanda, your father famously gave you a piece of advice. He told you this when you're starting a new job, he said, try to be the person who brings the solutions and not the problems. He's that famous now. It is now. Congratulations, nox diamonds. Is that how you approach your role in the big picture? No. But I do think that I know my role very well. I know what my job is. Okay. And what do you think that is? It is to be Sean's foil. It is to just to get him as off course as I possibly can while also still achieving the goals of the show, which I do understand to be sort of a magazine in podcast

1:19:05about the world of movies, a thing that we both really love. And we, you know, we don't really talk what we talk all the time, but we don't have a lot of like status update conversations. We don't really like to brainstorm together. Sean prefers to brainstorm in the middle of the night into a Google spreadsheet, which is fine because we do have a shared language and understanding. And so he's never articulated to me. Okay. Well, so we'll do this front of book here. And then we'll have, you know, this will be this will be the well feature. And I'm going to move this here because of XYZ. But it's very evident to me in the architecture of the show. And I understand all of that language because we both have magazine trading. And beyond that, I guess I understood the worst was to have chemistry. And I know what my chemistry is with Sean, which is to poke at him. Someone needs you. I think it's deeper than that. Also, I think we're real friends. We're real friends, you know, we like we have a dynamic and we have bits. But we're actually friends. The

1:20:09dog mob, growing contingent. Yes. What would you say are the defining characteristics of dog mom? Someone who knows what they like. Sean's mom very widely at that. So just to be clear, I did not invent this. I don't know who I don't know where it started. And at some point, it's really not for me. You know, it's not any of my business. I appreciate it as sort of a shorthand for someone who listens to the show. Are you two going into the subreddits about the show and then looking? I've been there. Yeah. It's not something I would recommend. It's very interesting. No. Again, that's really not for us. It's really quite hard. Here's the thing truthfully. Okay. It doesn't exist to us. It doesn't look at it. It just it just really doesn't exist. And I hope those people are well in their personal and professional lives and have healthy relationships. It's very funny to me specifically because for years, you know, when I was working as editor in chief and working and like managing a lot of people at the ringer, I was the one who had to really

1:21:11encourage people not to look at that stuff. And it was bits because it's very strange to be talked about in any form. And now, of course, we have an incredibly toxic subreddit. The thing I always try to say to younger people is, I mean, and maybe you have a robust subreddit life. And also, I don't want to denigrate subreddit life because the community of people talking about, like, feeding an infant at 3 a.m. on Reddit is very valuable and sometimes you just need the community space. But I don't really know anyone who posts on subreddit. I just don't. I'm never really met a person who spends that much time in comments, sections. I just I don't interact with those people. And so they they are have their own truths. And I guess it's a little weird to be a character in their interior lives. But also, it doesn't really affect me. So good luck to them. Honestly. Yes, Sean? I agree. I agree. It's very hard. I'm not as disciplined as you do are. I don't have

1:22:14a robust reddit life, though. I want to make that clear. Okay. You're not like you don't have a shadow account or a to me. The thing that I always say about this is that I felt like the first 10 years of my life, I was working into active public anonymity. Like I was putting things out all the time that had my name on them. And you'd get no feedback. Like when you write for a magazine, yeah, you know, I could I could have a 5,000 word piece in a national magazine. And you wouldn't get a letter to the editor. You wouldn't get a note from a colleague. You would just be like, well, that happened and it's over. And now it's constant. If I post a tweet with even the vagus of opinions, there will invariably be some sort of commentary attached to that. So there is a kind of emotional whiplash that comes with that. But I think what Amanda said is you have to just try to tune it out. So evidently, though, despite that, a dogma member is. Yes. So again, it's not for it's not for me to say. And I don't even have an opinion on how it spelt. I'm told that there is some argument of whether it's two bees or two bees. I also

1:23:16I think that it should be two bees. Two bees were I the editor of the dogma. But I would do that. But again, I'm not. But you are the leader of it. Well, I accept that mantle and appreciate it. I default, but it's their thing. You know, it's for them. What I want for them is to be a person who knows what they like, right? To enjoy what they like, to not spend that much time worrying about the stuff that they don't like be it a superhero movie or people on a subreddit. It's kind of a Mark's Lenin situation. We have marks, but what we need is the Lenin of the dogma. And they appreciate movies, but they also appreciate the other aspects of life. They to to quote rant. Sometimes they go outside. They have hobbies. Yeah. And then they log back on. And they are respectful to other people except for that. That's where it formed. That was what it formed. That's what it formed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Getting offline away away from

1:24:18the cinema. That was the originating from not away from the cinema. It is about getting away from just like the very, very intense online fan culture that is really, really thrived and push the success of superhero movies, but is now replicated in any other culture. I think of just people a little posted a little too much. Honestly, just getting a little too much on their subreddit. Yeah. There's a lot of subreddit. Yeah. And something that Sean now that is always on the subreddit is a catchphrase of yours. We're so back. It's so over. What you have said, quote, would be fine by me if that's what I remember. Yeah. I want to be a banner at my wake over my coffin. Well, I want to be cremated, but over the urn. It says it's so over. Select to give the eulogy. Chris. Probably. I mean, I think my brother would probably have a thing or two to say about me, but I spend I spend not just your brother, your brother, your brother, my other brother, but CR is a tremendous order. And, um, and it knows me as well as anyone, honestly.

1:25:24Short of I lean, he knows me as well as anyone. Well, CR has sent a question for us. Oh, and he wanted to play it. Okay. Speaking of him. So I want to take a listen to that. Okay. What's up, Sam? My name is Sheriff Ringo. First time in one time. Big fan of the show, man. And big fan of the big picture keeps me warm out here on the range. Just wanted to ask Sean and Amanda if they could talk a little bit about the big picture cinematic universe, the expanded Avengers brotherhood of guests that repeatedly come on the show and bring their own unique perspective, especially Tracy Letz, who seems to become something of a of a third host. And it's just been remarkable to see a guy like that get an opportunity finally to express himself on a on a big stage as you will. I'll hang up and listen and Sam keep on trucking brother.

1:26:24I like the inference that because his name is Sheriff Ringo, he has to be on the range. Sure. Like his Ringo named that because he works on the range. I think I'll see you go. I'm the only man who's seen Ringo. I saw it, but I forgot. Okay. Third chair, you know, we're coming up on the midterms. And another election in the state of California, I heard is being held for the third chair of the big picture. Tracy Letz and Chris Ryan are on the ballot. Thoughts. Well, Van Leathen is trying to has I think has made a formal declaration. Really? I think that may just be a right in that he was well, you know, I think that is not allowed in the state of California. Yeah, many such cases. I mean, what should we say? Well, I mean, how would you think of Chris's plea? That was Sheriff Ringo. Was it not? I think it's really funny because it exposes a vulnerability and Chris that is very uncommon. It's very rare to see him unnerved. Yes. He really doesn't like this. There's there's

1:27:26there's an obvious reason why. Yeah. He works really hard for the big picture. Like he's on the show a lot. He works really hard for the ringer. Yeah, he does. He does. Boy, boy. He doesn't have to do what he does for our show. He he's on our show pretty frequently like three sometimes four times a month. And he's on every movie draft. And and he and I are really close compatriots and Amanda and Chris are really close compatriots like we are in our lives very closely. So someone like Tracy comes along who's a very accomplished person who also is born to podcast and he comes on and the response is extremely positive to someone like him. And it's rare to see Chris get knocked off his perch a little bit. I mean, I do think you know, Chris takes it seriously. There's a great clip from one episode that Tracy was on when you know Chris closes the laptop and you know that's a game on constituents. They are the people of America, my friend or the people in the streets. And they want to see more of what I'm cooking. It's really it's Chris Ryan is good is going to stand up and

1:28:30take the chair. I do also think it's just indicative of the fact that Chris Ryan to quote Meena Kimes another friend of ours is the greatest living podcast or which I think is true. And he knows a good bit. And it's a great bit. But if you had to choose one. No. A third chair. It's not really how it works. Yeah. It's more of a cosmic delineation. No. It's well if you say if you say it's an election. Yeah. Then who then shouldn't the electorate have a set you put that to a vote? Do you think that we should clarify for your listeners that when we're just talking about Tracy Letz it is the same Tracy Letz who wrote August O'Sooch County like the police surprise winning and Tony winning after and not just some other guy we met named Tracy Letz who was like pretty good at podcasting. I've said to Tracy if he really wants to make this a battle then what he needs to do is one move to Los Angeles because all episodes are filmed in person two he needs to come with us on Monday nights to see the dog stars because Chris is coming with us he's got a dog stars. Yeah. Wow. You need to you need to do the work to be the full-time

1:29:33active third chair. Well I'll give him credit. He did do the work and sending a question. Oh boy. Okay. Um this was sent to me right after we started recording. Okay. So I have no clue what he said. Oh man. I'm trying to try to make it special for you guys. This is like this is your life for something you know like a 50s game show where something is revealed to us about ourselves. Oh Sam my name is Jack Willie Hoops. I'm going from Yarnold Texas. It's just outside Amarillo and I'm calling to ask Sean and Amanda about this third chair situation. I just don't understand why this is even a problem. This seems to me pretty apparent that uh Mr. Letz would be the best possible third chair these folks can hope for. Now I like the Gofella. He's a lot of fun. He's uh where's those hats. He's got uh you know he's got a kind of a

1:30:37smart alky way about him but I got to say uh Mr. Letz just brings a lot of uh charm and expertise to this uh to this project and it just seems to me so obvious that he is the way forward for the big picture. I hope uh I hope they'll consider the people when they're making this decision. Thank you very much. Wow there we go. Listen another person who knows a good bit who understands narrative. Almost like he's a writer. Yeah amazing. Joe Willie Hoops from something like that from Amarillo Texas. Yeah why is everybody in the West? Well the Oklahoma just popped out of Tracy right there. You know that was that was what that was. Uh I don't what do you think? Why would I choose? I don't want to have to pick between them. I I love them both. I mean you know to to be sincere for a minute which is absolutely not the big picture

1:31:42Ray. But I guess it is to talk easy when it. Sure getting to spend time with both of these people and everybody else who comes on the show is such an immense privilege. I mean why am I friends with Tracy Lutz? Like that's crazy. In Venice last year he was in the Catherine Bigelow movie. So I got to just go hang out with my friend the Pulitzer Prize winning playwright at an international film festival. Like how charmed is my life? I don't want that door to close. I don't want his like very kindly um dad like uh notes of approval on every Hall of Fame episode to get cut off which he does send us. It's really cute. Um I love Tracy and I mean I put on the ever say goodbye to Chris Ryan. So he's one of the great minds. Do you also know that like in some parts of Los Angeles Chris Ryan is Elvis? Have you ever been out with him in public? I haven't. It's really everyone should have that experience. I think both of them are not going to be satisfied by your answers. Okay well I said nice things about both of them and how much I like them and I've said nothing

1:32:43nice about Sean on this. So no you said that one thing about. Yeah okay I'm gonna ask some not rapid-fired some big picture big picture questions. Okay this is after 10 years of making this show or eight years. It'll be 10 years in January. Okay of all the filmmakers working who is going to come on first? Christopher Nolan, David Fincher or Martin Scorsese. Okay. I mean that's the big three right? That's that's the big three that I've never been on the show. Other filmmakers I'd like to talk to you like really Scott that isn't the member come on the show. I'd love to talk to all three of them. I don't think Chris will ever come on. It would be my guess. Because you said something bad about. I said inception is a six out of 10. Yeah I heard that. I think Fincher is just too cool for you and doesn't care. He doesn't like doing it. I know I mean I know many people around the Fincher. Let me say I respect that about David Fincher. Yes. He did a pop on very many. He did one pod and it was deleted and it was on Mark Marins. Yes. So do you remember the FYC not FYC but some sort of awards think he did during COVID over zoom

1:33:44with with Affleck from their various basements? And he's so cool. Yes I love that conversation. Well that's the way the Affleck should really be a movie interview podcast or I mean he's really skilled at that. I if if Christopher Nolan would like to come on the show he's more than welcome. Yes. I don't I don't see that as happening. I guess it's weird to be like Scorsese is the most likely. You know he does have a film coming out next year. I'm trying to think of who I want Sean to interview. He's already done Greta several times and she's wonderful. Who else? The Spielberg thing was obviously very exciting for me. And it's a little it'll be hard to top that. I like the young people like I like talking to Curry Barker this year and talking to Kane Parsons this year and you know I like people like Matt Johnson coming on the show multiple times so I know it's not always about just like booking the biggest name because honestly people are coming to the show for the most part to hear a man to talk about movies right so it's it's is got to be about curiosity in a lot of ways and who I'm interested in talking to. Rewatchable

1:34:49wise for the two of you if you could do any movie on there you had you over had the editorial over Ryan incredible timing because you just did one of your all time number ones. I finally got my one of my dreams Apollo 13. Oh my god. Thank you so much for knowing. Congratulations for knowing what that means to me. I do know what it means. So that was huge so that got checked off the list. And on the Apollo 13 Rob Mhoney and I pitched that thing you do exclamation point which is having an anniversary this year as well. Good idea. I don't know you know he famously doesn't take selections or requests. I think the other one probably outstanding is the Thomas Crown affair 1998. Could be good time for next year. Yeah. Michael B. Jornson. I like that one. You know the show doesn't often have I think there's only two movies pre 1970. One was butch Cassidy and the other one is space I to see that space I to say that Spielberg chose. I want to know how did you guys litigate that that he get in the Spotify slack? I don't even know if I can say I wait there was a discussion about what would be some potential

1:35:53ideas for what would make sense and when Bill and I talked about it it's always about like how what is the guess most comfortable and excited to talk about the same way you think about booking guests or you want somebody who's like and Spielberg has spoken many times about his relationship with Kubrick and his relationship to that movie and that movie is like a load star for this entire generation of filmmakers that come afterwards. So it wasn't I don't think Bill was like caught off or anything by the fact that it was from the late 60s. But I do think that he's thinking consciously about his own interests and also serving the audience of the show. But I don't really have a lot of saying that honestly. It's not really. But if it was just you and you got to decide. I think it would be very fun to do the master with Bill. Yes. I think that would be very interesting. I would pay so much money for it. Because by the way the horny stuff is going to be in all time here. Well did you listen to the forest cup episode? Sort of the PG version of that. Not a lot of rewatches episodes that are just me and Bill. Most of them are actually comedies. But there are a handful of more serious

1:36:53movies and they always go to weird places. I brought this up with Chris but I have to do it again here. There have been times where you folks have chat GPT Roger Eber's response to the movie. Bill has done that. Well you're on those episodes. But I wouldn't do that. Now those episodes are now sponsored by Chad G. B.T. Do you have a moral shock in here? What? I don't know, brother. Okay, why didn't know that? That's not my decision level. Yes. Okay. Chad G. B.T. is a new sponsor. I'm getting the money. Of the Bill Simmons podcast. I don't think on the big picture. You accept that sponsorship. No. Okay. Do you have a moral objection to Roger being brought back to life? I don't like it. I've told Bill I don't like it. Is there any way we could have it stop? Well it's not my decision. It's something that he's done. I think Chris and I have both when presented with Chad G. B.T. Ebert. We've said, that's not cool. Because I wouldn't want that done for me after I died. I wouldn't want to be represented in that way. I review Roger Ebert. I'm thinking very

1:37:59critically about AI and trying to not be an alarmist and trying to be thoughtful about what's coming while also having a clear moral view of what it means and how it's going to impact us. I tried to write about this a few a couple of months ago and I find it very difficult to write about because that's a tool that most people I think are using in that fashion. It feels kind of sad at times and it feels very unhuman, but it's not harming people, but also by occupying your time with it, you're kind of harming a human creativity that could otherwise be spent in another way. Then there is a more meaningful, ecological and creative dead ending that is a little bit more scary. We can see that they're sort of related, but they're not talking to each other. My wife's sister uses it to organize tasks every day. I'm not going to scold her about how she's using a tool that is making her life just a little

1:39:00bit easier because it's just hard being alive when you've got a family and a job. I'm not trying to do some big philosophical exegesis about this because of the eBer question, but I'm really thinking hard about it because I see it getting in my face. I think that people are. I think that it's on a lot of people's minds. Yeah. How to use it or if to use it and all that. I mean, for bits, I'm glad you're out on this whole thing. Well, I'm still shocked that you're surprised that your ringer shows are sponsored by Jeff. I didn't know that, I guess, because I didn't listen to the speed rewatchables. No, I was on vacation. Sorry. Which is. Hobbies. Funny. Yeah. Hobbies. And also just that's hilarious on so many levels that that's how I'm learning about it. But I do generally and generally find everything to do with AI boring. And I'm not interested. And I've never used it because what am I using it for? I prefer human beings. That's also true of the types of stories that I like.

1:40:01I don't like fantasy stories. I like human beings. So I really honestly am just not that interested. Obviously, it has huge social and financial and ecological implications. And I know where I stand on that. And it's not with people building data centers. It's kind of boring. I just like, not really. I didn't have crypto either. One thing that I think comes up on the show over and over again is how I would you describe yourself as being anti-corporation, upwards of about 20 times on the show, dating back to the Dartmouth days. You wrote for the School Magazine The Mirror. Quote, as a classics major with a stubborn, irrational, aversion to corporations. Yeah. I'm curious because we mentioned the Netflix of it all. You gave a big disclaimer when you guys signed on that you're going to be obviously covering movies that Netflix makes. What was I writing about in the mirror? It was it was called commencement convocation and something and other. Oh, that's because everybody I went to college with was a

1:41:01consultant or going to call consulting or finance. Yeah. It's a very good piece. And we'll link to it in the episode. Oh, great. Thanks so much. Look at me. I wonder where are you both that on obviously worked for Spotify. But now you have this Netflix licensing deal. Do we have it? I don't know the arrangements that are made. You guys are I think shareholders and you guys get something when you join and create a company. We're not shareholders. Yeah. Okay. Well, Sean, when it happened on the deal, you change your letter box to the following movies. Horror, capital, dollars, and salesman. I did. Would you like to be more blunt? I those are four really interesting films. Yeah. Then I thought we're worth checking out. What's going on here? How do you feel about the ringer made a decision to license their shows not exclusively to Netflix? I think there's an inherent conflict with the work that we're doing, which is why I shared that disclaimer. And why you changed your letter box for it?

1:42:05I think it's fun to signal to the audience that we all know what everyone else is thinking sometimes. Sean's still got a little poster in him. And I respect that about him. Yeah. I don't think it totally makes sense for a show that's covering films released by Netflix to be licensed non-exclusively to Netflix, but it wasn't my decision. So we're working within that reality. But I don't really think about the platform when we're making the show. I try to think about the show the same way we were making it in 2018. Amanda, how do you feel? I feel lucky to have a job in this industry. I mean, and in this, I mean, we have incredible jobs. We really do have amazing jobs. Unbelievable insane jobs where we talk about, I talk about movies with my, one of my best friends and an employed and have health insurance for my children and for myself also. And that feels great. It's a very tumultuous time in media and in Hollywood and in the world at large. And I

1:43:08feel very, very grateful. I have some notes. I think as we've learned, I had notes in what 2006 was that when that was right? That's right. That's when I graduated from college 20 years. So I am a person who will always have notes. And I think part of the anti-corporation status that you're talking about is that corporations make decisions on behalf of other people. I don't like decisions being made on behalf of me by anyone else. Never have, never will. But I am grateful to do what we do. So is that the grappling, the part of feeling really grateful and also since 2006? Yeah. Anti-corporation. Yes, there you go. Yes. Yeah, I would not describe myself as anti-corporate. I'm not sure if I'm a corporate cheerleader either, but I think I'm just more of a pragmatist when it comes to these things. And this particular... And it's better at it than I am, what do you mean? You're just more diplomatic. You can sit in rooms and he's the ambassador to the world and I'm the one who just says what she says with no filter. Yeah, but I think it's also good to

1:44:14just have some recognition of the inadequacies of the current media climate. And because of that, the way that most things that are being made that people love are often being made in the throes of a kind of larger scale war for attention. And this is a really good example of that. There's obviously a larger scale war going on between multiple streamers to to find a way to capture attention. And in that war, a lot of smaller things that fit in the phylum are being subject to changes that they wouldn't necessarily make. For example, this show is on video. I have to assume if you had your brothers, you would continue doing the show. I only hear brothers on podcasts. Well, it's a verbal medium. It's good. What do you think I would do? I assume you'd rather just keep making the show you the way you did, but you're in an attention economy. I actually like the video part. It's forced me to join a gym. That's been good. Okay. What kind of workouts? Trying to do something with the core.

1:45:19I'm not... It's very hard. I'm learning. I mean, I play basketball every week, so that was what I had before. Savor the ball again. I'm not going to win. Yeah. I like the video part of it. I mean, I've been on the other side of it. I've been on the other side of making decisions that other people haven't liked to. And I don't make those decisions anymore. So I don't know if I have empathy for the decision makers per se. But when we talk about movie studio executives, I'm usually the person who's like, honestly, their jobs are tough. And it's like, fuck those people. And it makes for an interesting and fun dynamic in the show. But I think I understand that there are people who are at the very top who are the absolute greatest at turning off all the noise. And that leads to very bad decision making. So not knowing anything about the feedback is dangerous, but also listening too much to the feedback is also dangerous. So what is the happy medium so that you're making something that you're proud of that you feel can kind of stand up to your own personal ethics? But that isn't totally tone deaf in either direction. I would say that's pretty much where all my

1:46:24time goes to is the actual making of the show and the producing and the writing and the editing of it. So that's what I try to stick with Amanda. You want to say something? Go ahead. Oh, no. I was just thinking about how there are many movie executives who at least listen to the big picture who I admire who are going to be mad about that one. I don't have problems with the movie executives. It is all of the large conglomerate executives who are using movie studios and and many other industries at this point as monopoly money to bundle in order to make more money, which is the experience not just of the two of us, but most people working in the world now. Sean, you said that when you found out that executives listened to the show, it quote, made me want to die. Why? I used to feel that way. I don't feel that way anymore because I know what happens and I hear from them. I think we're just kind of making the show in secret for the first few years. The show was also the size of the audience was very modest in the beginning of the show. And I had an awareness of that because I was looking at the performance of every show on the network. And so because of that, I was like, well, this is a fun thing that we get to do together.

1:47:29We both get to explore stuff that we really enjoy. I'd always wanted to spend a lot more time covering movies. And so I didn't really think much more. But I wasn't like, well, this is going to be clearly the job that I'm going to have in 2026 will be a man and I will sit across from Sam and we will talk about our process and all the deep philosophy that goes into making of this silly podcast. Like I had no intention of that. And it did become clear. I think we've been also sufficiently silly on this podcast. We have some thank God for the draft. We haven't said the word craft, have we? No, no. But in 20122, I was like, oh, okay, I see what's happening. Over and over, you guys have often said in your experiences, it was a fractional part of your jobs. I want to know as we kind of segway to the end of this, is there anything in this next chapter you've done 900 episodes getting to a thousand? You said in one episode recently that 1800 is the target amount of episodes you want to do. It's you said you feel like we're halfway. Halfway. Yeah. Does it feel like that? You think you can get to 1800?

1:48:30Well, while I was on vacation, the X-Men movie was dated, is that right? Yeah. And so it's after the four Beatles movies, which we have previously identified as when the big picture will end because it's such a, Sean and I are both huge Beatles people and this seems like and it's starting some of our favorite people actors and it seems like a terrible idea and also the best thing that's ever happened and we don't know how we will like emotionally and spiritually make it through four Beatles movies. Are they still being released? As far as I know on the same day. I think on the same day. I can't be on the same day. They can't be on the same day. How would you do that? We haven't told 2028 to find out, right? April 2028 has been when the move, when the podcast is going to end. Now I suppose we have to kick it to May 2028. What about whatever happens at the end of X-Men? Then I got to find out what happens next. That's movie Finn. What happens at the end of May of 2028? You two are retired? Not a full seat. Yeah, I don't know.

1:49:33Do you, either of you actually believe any of this? You know, I saw a documentary two days ago about Carl Sagan. I thought about the way I think of Carl Sagan. Thank you. I mean, honestly, I would aspire to that life. But Nanette Burstein really talented documentary made this movie about him and it's a pretty, you know, straightforward, slightly hajographic with some warts portrayal. And I love what he did. And I'll just say, like, I think we're trying to do this in a very simple way. I never thought of him as an inspiration point. But he was like, I'm going to try to make something that is fairly complex and often exclusionary, which is sort of like both Hollywood and the worlds of Cinephilia, and try to make them more widely understood to a mainstream audience. Because those are the kinds of magazines that Amanda was describing that we liked. They were sort of mass market guides for how to enjoy something that Ebert obviously did. And so I hope personally that, like, I don't know if I'm going to make the cosmos for movies,

1:50:37though I would love to. But I hope we can just kind of continue to do that. That's something that I think has value that we enjoy doing that seems to have some register with people. And maybe we won't do it exactly the way that we're doing it right now in 2029 or 2037. But I like doing that stuff. How do you feel? I feel that I've started doing the math of how old will I be when the new Spider-Man movie comes out or something and it's dismaying and should it... Should a 51-year-old talking about whatever is, you know, alarming to think about, but it's a brave new world. I think that I try to be smart about the decisions that I make or we make or that my husband and I who are in the same failing industry make. But try not to think too far ahead because we get asked to talk to groups of journalism students and younger students of Fair amount. And I always say to them, like, I don't

1:51:39really think podcasts existed when I was your age. I mean, and if they did, it was not mainstream. Yes, exactly. So you can't totally know what the form will be five or 10 or 15 years down the road. So I try to keep an open mind. That doesn't mean using chat GBT, but maybe other things. Five years ago, Sean, you were asked by a mailbag question, what makes the show work and why you love doing it with Amanda? And I have here what you said. I'm going to let you read that. Sure. And then we can maybe offer an updated version. One of the things I like about the show, and especially doing the show with you is that it does reveal true aspects of my personality, my insane unhealthy competitiveness, my overweaning sense of organization, my sincerity. I like to rub up against your fructive nature and be a little bit more emotional. Oh, that's beautiful. That's pretty good. I think that's true. Yeah.

1:52:40And I would not have described myself as a sincere person until we became podcast partners. Oh, that's very nice. You know what I mean? I would have said that the big changes once you became a dad, not to. But if I say it instead of you, then it's not girl, dad, nonsense. But that has been interesting, right? The show is comprised major world events in terms of pandemic. It's comprised just both becoming parents. I've gone into extended paternal leaves as on this podcast, which just thank you for covering for me for so long. So that part of the show is being maybe not a document of our lives, but also the show is animated by the fact that we both love movies and also remember our lives, I think, and mark our lives by the movies. And we can remember where we were when we saw something or who we saw it with or what was going on and how it made it, it made us feel. And so that that has infused the podcast makes a lot of sense to me. By the way, this is definitely the most sincere

1:53:41of the two of you. Oh, yeah. I've probably ever been on microphones that I've heard. So this is very nice for people to hear for inviting us to do so. My last question, you said in that similar mail bag recently that movies will be dead in 10 years. As we leave 2021 brand right there. Yeah. No, no, this was recent. This was trying to try to 26. Did I say that movies will be dead in 10 years? I found that hard to believe. I know you've been on a real, been real positively. He swore off the part in the pine doomsday and you've been more, we're so back than it's so over. Yeah. Okay, so we're so back at so over two parts. You didn't get to give the phrase or turn a phrase that you would like to be remembered for. And secondly, as we think about the future of the movies, how do you two feel about it? What's your phrase? Do you have a phrase? For a long time, you really clowned me for introducing opinions with it's not for me.

1:54:42Now, I think that we've all learned from Emily Wilson that sometimes you just need to lead with it's not for me. And that's okay. We all see movies or experience the world in different ways. And that's important to know your critical lens and to be able to articulate it. But, you know, also many things that are released are not for me until they are. I think that's pretty good. Okay. Thank you. I'll let them. Future movies, I think it'll be fine. I don't know what context I said that in. I think they're going to continue to exist. I think they may become increasingly eventized. And so it might seem like maybe there are fewer big ticket wide releases and that those movies will be four quadruple out the wazoo in an effort to drive that eventization. I hope that doesn't happen. But I think when you look at the Spider-Man and the Odyssey this summer, you can see that executives can't see past maximizing. Maximizing is really the goal.

1:55:43And so if there's a reason that it's under threat, it's the maximizing. The converse of that is obviously obsession, which is that you never can predict what the art form will allow for. And that movies can be made more cheaply than ever by very young people. And so I hope that it's the dawning of a shift. I don't know what you think. I think we've both been pretty heartened and also puzzled by the growth in viewership by younger people and also the growth of listenership by much younger people to our podcast. It seems like it's grown a lot. And it is. And it's much younger people. And you know, I'm so grateful, but also we are as much discussed to middle-aged parents just talking about how great it was when Billy Crystal wrote the yellow airplane onto the stage in 97, I guess. So I do think that some of that is just because younger

1:56:44people have really gotten into movies. And there have been a lot of trend pieces and documentation to this effect, whether it's that they're into like making sure they have the right 70 millimeter iMacs tickets for the Odyssey or whether they're at rep screenings or whether they're unletter boxed or younger people. And I mean even younger than you are like, hey movies, that's what's up. And that gives me hope. I think I don't think it's ever going to be the center of pop culture. And really the center of just of all culture the way it was for us in the 90s. But this year has been encouraging. You know, TV really down bad movies back. So that feels good. Well, in thinking of the movie of the year, my opinion is the drama. I still remember someone that I keep coming back to. This is my final question. Yes. Is there anything that would be a bridge too far that would make this union have to have to break up? Well, isn't there isn't the drama about how it likes it? No matter what we persist. Yeah, it's about the commitment. But then you just you do it anyway.

1:57:47And honestly, I watched the drama being like, yeah, okay, not great. But was it like, she didn't do it. So I agree. I think if he aligned a hind me, that would be sort of yeah, that would be a real issue. But that's the the fake best friend made of honor speech. So you two are going to you're going to persist for the long or at least 1800 episodes. Yeah, at least until May 2028. Yeah. I don't know. I I'm not really worried about that. Honestly, it's not something that really crosses my mind. Sean, you looked just made that I'm asking this. Well, I think it's like it's probably really healthy to acknowledge as a man who was like 10 minutes ago how lucky we are to be doing this in this way. And that it was like not actually some grand scheme that the ringer was in that style that she was describing was that was strategic. Like in 2015, we had conversations about that. But for us, specifically, I don't think that this was like some master plan that we had. It did kind of fall into place during the pandemic, where it became clear that that was happening. And so, especially now,

1:58:52because my life is much more dedicated professionally to doing the show than it was previously, I'm trying to have like a lot of gratitude for that because it's a fucking cool job. It's a really lucky job. And even while she was on vacation, I was like, she's going to get back soon. We got it. We got it. We got it. We got to start doing the show again. Yeah. I missed you. Well, I want to say approaching a thousand episodes, 10 years of the ringer. Congratulations to you both. It takes a lot. The fact that you two are still friends is really a testament to whatever odd, strange, beautiful bond you've created. That's that is true. But thank you for saying it. And we would never really say it to each other. I'm aware that's what I'm here for. Sean Venise, the Amanda Diamonds. Thank you both. Thank you. Thanks, Sam. Thank you for watching Talk Easy. If you enjoyed this episode with Sean Venise and Amanda Dobbins, be sure to subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also leave us a review on Apple. Drop us a comment on Spotify or follow us on social media at Talk Easy Pod. Our producer is Caroline Reebok.

1:59:56This episode was edited by Corey Etad. It was mixed by Andrew Bastola. Photographs today come from Maria Alvarez. Social Media by Sophie Kavorkian. Special thanks to Victor Shee and of course to Sean and Amanda for coming on the show. I also want to thank our friend of the pod, Eric Lures. This episode of course was made in partnership with the good people at higher ground media. And I'm Sam Fragosa. Thank you for watching and I'll see you next Sunday. I'm Dan Heath. On what it's like to be, I interview people about their jobs. Here's a married couple that drives a long haul truck together. We backed up and they loaded fresh dead rats. I mean how many rats would you guess we're back there? There were 32,000 pounds of them. 32,000 pounds of frozen dead rats. How'd that say? Find out what it's like to be a long haul trucker, a couple's therapists, or an FBI agent

2:00:57all on the podcast what it's like to be.