The Red Flags You Can't Ignore With A Prenup

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. Abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced.

1:00These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a bookshelf and you're a for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and pop culture. With your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. So I'm obsessed. Listen to pro society on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the US Open, which means the tennis world is about to lose its mind and I'm here for every second of it. Join me, Renee Stubbs on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast as I break it all down. The matches that matter, the drama that doesn't and the stories everyone's talking about. No cliches, no sugar coating, just host analysts from someone who's actually been there.

2:01Coco, looking real good, her serve looks so much smoother than it has in the past. I was really happy to see you go back to what she looked like a couple of years ago and she was winning dominantly. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, it's Kelly Kaloren, Ben Salon with I Do Hard To Work Here with Courtney Robertson and divorce, a stellar divorce attorney, Dennis Vitrono. We have some burning questions about prenups. Let's get started. What is some red flags you should look for? We're reviewing a printup. Oh God. I mean, I think there can be any one of a number of different red flags in terms of prenups,

3:02but I think here's the most important things to keep in mind. Your situation, your relationship, let's not even call it the prenup of the divorce or your assets, your relationship is its own thing. It will be different from everyone else's. There will be similarities. Of course, you need to look at this prenup as a piece, an extension of the building of your relationship. It is transparency. It is knowing what you can expect from each other moving forward. I think we're so hyper focused on the divorce and the money and who pays what? What do you expect from him or her and what does the other person expect from you? That's what it comes down to. If they said, hey, I'm in software, I'm in tech, I'm a multi-multimillionaire, I make plenty of money and we've decided together, not I'm telling you, not I want you to do, we've decided together that the other person is going to be a state-owned parent. Then you've got to know there's got to be transparency and there's got to be that

4:04expectancy for the what if. I think how people approach these terms and these prenups will speak volumes about who the person is at their core. I don't think it's really a place where you're making major judgments, but you can make a number of different observations and really just process what's going on here. I think we're always thinking, well, back up a little bit, I'll share a quote that my mother-in-law shared with my wife when she was dating before we met said you should choose with your head, not your heart. I know that's very difficult for people to focus on and it's always, we always want the fairy tale and I get it, but sometimes actually most of the time from my perspective, choose with the things you know you need out of another person that you know you want and expect out of life. The prenup actually, as you lay out, what are your debts, what are your assets, what

5:04are you expecting the other person, what if we do this, what if we do that, what they're suggesting and all of those what ifs and all their background will tell you volumes about that person and then it'll help you say like you said, hey, you don't want to sign a prenup. Okay, goodbye. It's not where I want to be. Now that we talked about like, you know, all these emotions, well, I think let me just, if you give me a second just to chat about the emotions, I think that's such an important piece of all of it. Thank you. It's all of it. I think so. So, so people don't realize that as you go through life, you're growing and changing and evolving it, but when you go through a traumatic experience like a divorce, you know, it's funny, I've heard somebody, I think it was a psychologist chair, they say that people are three degrees away from their normal baseline personality when they're going through a divorce. This is so helpful, Dennis. So you got to like accept that.

6:05So if you're a little pissed off or you're a little out of the out of sorts or a little bit out of the ordinary, you just can't process things in the same way that you'd, yeah, mm-hmm, yep, that's what's going to happen. That's what it's going to be. So I think going through that, healing from that, learning who your new you is, accepting that new you, loving that new you, and feeling like that new you is enough such that you do not need someone else to fill a void. Yeah. That is what will bring that, as you call it, lobster to you. That's what does it. It does it like, oh, let me see. Can I find somebody? Is there dating? Just do you, man. Naturally, organically, you will find the right person at the right time if you even need the right person. Right. And the emotional trauma and the financial trauma is what you were talking about. That is so unbelievably thick and very, very, very difficult to navigate.

7:08And you know, I had no choice because I had two kids. I had to just move forward and provide for my children. Yep. But I'm not going to say it was easy. Everyone's like, oh, you just make it look so easy. No, no, I make it, make is the operative word. Right. Make it look easy. It is not easy. Right. Make it tell you make it. Right. And I was like, how am I going to do this? I was like, no, man, it's going to ever love me with my first husband. I was like, everyone thinks that I'm just a nobody. Then my second fiance, I'm like, now he's trying to exploit me. Like, I'm like, I can't get a break. And I know a lot of women feel like that. And when you have kids, sometimes you don't have the time to grief. I didn't. You don't have the time to cry in the way that you need to. You don't have time to process. You don't have because you're expected to suck it up, swallow it and have a brave, brave face for your kids. And by the way, Dennis, if you don't just kind of like lock into your friends and family

8:13and say, I need help. I need to move forward. I need the strength. Let's go. I mean, this podcast really, really, really shifted my energy because I was talking to people like me. We were sharing stories. I felt comfortable saying I was so, I was a mess. A hot mess, express. That's me right now. I have no shame in my game. They were like, oh, you go to go to red carpets and you smile. I'm like, that doesn't mean I'm not like literally frying inside. Your hands are getting anxiety. You're talked about your sweaty palms. That's an FN job. People don't realize that is a brand. You need to live your brand every day. And obviously, I don't have the same level of notoriety that you do. But I mean, even for myself, like I need to live a brand every day. I live the company as I live who I am, my persona every single day. So I have to be really doubly certain about the way I'm dealing with people, the way I show up and public. That is a job. That is pressure.

9:14That is locked in focus. That's not enjoyment. And some people don't understand that because what we do is different. And so everybody has their own map of the world. Like what I do. Right. You do. We all have our own map of the world. I love that you said it's a brand. Like, we are a little bit not conventional. And that's why I like to try to, you know, not everybody's going to understand, right? Like, so, but Kelly, off with this head. You're writing shotgun with me. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. You just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

10:16Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. Their stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility.

11:20Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smile good, that's not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to solita on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love violent deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed.

12:20So obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. So like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is the Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture, culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to pro society on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. That call was really pivotal for me. Hey, it's Emily Tish Sussman and this season on She Pivots, the podcast where women share bold career moves and personal turning points that changed everything. I sit down with culture shifting women who share their pivots like Para Olympian Allie Truett. I was like, I'm a month out from a shark attack. There's no way in 11 months I'm making the very little index advocate Elizabeth Smart. I still feel that drive that I can still make a difference. So I'm going to keep going. Celebrity chef Carla Hall was that scary to walk away from such a stable career after

13:24just two years? No, I was more afraid of being unhappy than I was broke and in a dead and job that I didn't enjoy. And I was like, I'm a feminist legend, Gloria Steinem. All of us were trying to express women's real lives. We need a meeting place of our own. And if I can contribute to that, I'd like to maintain that and leave this house for that purpose. Listen to She Pivots on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is not a sexy thing to think about. Like what are the five things that you need to have ready to go when you're going to put a prenup together? What we typically, yeah, I mean, what we typically ask for at the outset is really just a network statement. So I really just want people to focus on like what are the assets that are out there that you're trying to protect? What do they plan their future is going to be?

14:24What do they expect from this other person? And I think one thing. And again, I know I keep coming back to it. People are always looking at the end game with the prenup. But the prenup, if it's being done right, is an opportunity for you to get some insight into the other person. Not only the finances and the income and the credit score and all of those things, but also what can you expect from that person moving forward? And I think as you go through those things, the red flags that will come up is if what they're asking you for in the prenup is different than what they've said to you where you've talked about. So you say, hey, I want to take care of you. I want you to stay home with the kids. But you don't get anything if we get divorced. And I don't want to pitch out support. So and each and every one of those terms. So and if it, I mean, there's also just things that are just like not logical. So if it comes up with something like, hey, I just want to make sure if I'm, if you find out that I did X or Y or Z that, maybe there's something underlying that.

15:27You know, I won't agree to a no cheating clause. They could be cheating already. So I mean, again, if it's something, if you look at that prenup and it seems like it doesn't fit with what you expect from this person, your expectations with what you, with who you believe they are and what you believe their behavior will be moving forward. I always say with relationships, your core values need to be aligned. I'm a big proponent of two people having their own lives, their own independence, their own sources of income, their own thing, and not just because I feel like it's good, you know, it will put them in a better position. If somebody doesn't pitch out support, you have to file court orders and be able to support themselves. But for your own independence, you have to maintain your own person. You can't like, okay, when you get married, yes, now you're a married couple, of course, there's a married life, but there's also your independent self. There's also your own identity and there needs to be, there needs to be the two.

16:31There needs to be the two. Well, I've been guilty of losing myself. Sorry to, I'm just taking notes here because I'm old school. But so did I. I've been guilty of losing myself in relationships and what I just heard, how I translated that is you got it, you can't lose yourself. Yeah. You know, what's interesting is that when, when, you know, some people were very, very negative towards me about what I was doing and getting a divorce and, you know, they're being negative and I'm trying to like, you know, push this, the positivity. But everybody goes through these things. Everyone's going through these emotions and I'm just, Courtney, I'd love that you're so open about how you feel. Well, I need my core people. I mean, I, but what I'm hearing you say, Kelly, there's an imaginary audience like everybody has their own shit going on, right? You can lean on your people and they will be there for you.

17:31But I mean, we live in worlds where everybody has their own stuff going on. There's an imaginary audience and I think that, you know, I can be vango and I can paint a picture in my mind of what is this person thinking about me? People magazine, I'm releasing a statement and that's something Kelly, you and I can talk about offline. But I think if you're listening, you know, I'm guilty of losing myself in romantic relationships. I've had them since I was 18. I'm 43. And Dennis, that's kind of what I, I mean, I have so many pages of notes here and I, I'm sorry if I was just so fired up today because I'm my first day without the kids. I've had them and you touched on that. I've had them for a week. Yeah. And I think now is the time and brief pockets of time to let's start off with not give a fuck with anybody else thinks about what they, you really, you really, and it's funny because I tell my wife this pretty often lately, I say, I'm turning 55 tomorrow.

18:34Oh my gosh. Happy, oh my goodness, your Virgo. I am. I love it. Happy birthday, Dennis. Thank you. So at 55, I tell my wife, but really anybody who will listen for that matter because I like to talk. So I, I have grown into who I am and I'm comfortable with who I am more than I ever have been in my entire life. So when I go into a room, no matter who it is, no matter where it is, no matter what it is, I don't worry about are they going to like me? I don't. I don't. I'm the guy that's going to go to a place where it's a black time. I'm going to say I'll take a cheeseburger and I'll take an ice cold beer and if people don't like it, that's fine. That's fine. And I'll be on my phone watching the game. Right. I keep my side of the street clean and that I try to be the best person I can be and everything else the chips are going to fall where they may. And I think as you go through the divorce process, it's really sage advice to say, not

19:35give an F what anyone else thinks, including sometimes your mom or your dad or your sister, your brother, your living your own reality and you're doing the best you can. And for most, they're doing a pretty good job and they just don't know it. All right. Everybody, Kelly, I've loved connecting with you and Dennis. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please rate, review, subscribe, maybe share it with a friend who might be going through something similar. Do you have questions about pre-numps? Maybe you need some advice. We want to help you out. So send us an email or leave a voice mail. All the info in the show notes. So follow us on social medias wherever you listen to your shows. I do part two. And I heart podcasts where falling in love is the main objective. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman.

20:41I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering the ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

21:42If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and pop culture. With your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of over thought opinions. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the US Open, which means the tennis world is about to lose its mind and I'm here for every second of it. Join me, Renee Stubbs on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast as I break it all down. The matches that matter, the drama that doesn't and the stories everyone's talking about. No cliches, no sugarcoding, just host analysts from someone who's actually been there. Coco, looking real good, her serve looks so much smoother than it has in the past. I was really happy to see Yiga back to what she looked like a couple of years ago when she was winning dominantly.

22:42Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human