The Upside of Failure Tony Kgoroge

0:00The upside of failure proof that a setback can be to a step forward. The upside of failure on 7 out of 2 afternoons and please forgive me in advance. I know this man but I'm also his fan. So I need a fan girl a little bit at the beginning. Before we talk so I can get it out of my system. Very highly acclaimed veteran award winning global international actor. Directly. Ah, Mr. Tony Koroché. Hi. I hope you... I am so excited you are here. Thank you very much and thank you for bringing me here. Did your wife force you to come? Well, they were collaborating to make sure that I got me. You know before you were my favorite in the Koroché family. Unfortunately you've lost your position. Your wife is my favorite.

1:00I heard. Last time she was here I heard that no. She's now your favorite. No, she's my favorite. But you could win me back depending on how today goes. How have you been? I've been well. Thank you. My goodness. I am just... I drove past the billboard of you today on the N1. For your show? Each one in the West or in the North? I don't know those directions things. N1, the blue fontane. Yes, that's the one in the West. It's the West. Yes. Massive billboard. And I looked at my thoughts to myself. What have those guys been around forever? From mining uniform to like you've been around. Do you feel like you've been around? No, I feel like... I'm starting off. You're starting off. I think it comes with maturity as well. The more you mature into this industry, the more you realize.

2:00I said, I shouldn't have done that. Yes. This is the path that I'm trying to take. Yes. Yes. And because we've known you as an actor and many people don't really get exposed to Tony the director, unless they've worked with you. I feel like as you're getting older, you are shying away a little bit more from the camera because you like to see something from conception to birth. Yeah. Even though you still go in front of the camera, but I feel like when you're in a director's chair, you are more... Waflex, I'm on. Is that what it feels like for you? No. Actually, in the director's chair, it's more of a... Like looking at the story from the CEO point of view. You know, while you're acting and maybe you're leading, it's like a manager or a general manager.

3:00Yes. It's all those responsibilities in the company that you have to embrace. Yes. And the feeling when you see the final product where it's yourself on camera versus your baby because it isn't the same, yes, you're sitting at it and offline and finals. But seeing it while other people are seeing it, what is the difference in those feelings? Yeah. And the funny thing is that it's never satisfying. You always feel like, I should have done this. I should have put a little bit more here. I should have done, you know. And then the feeling comes when you see people appreciating the work and going, Oh, that was beautiful. I like this. I feel like, Oh, really? You like that? Oh, I thought that was... I should have... You know. So the feeling comes more when people bring their response to whatever work that you have done. Whether it's a director or an actor.

4:01Is that feeling that you get when people start reacting and saying, I love this and I love that. And that's this more... And then when they come back and they go like, No, this is not... This is not on. You're not better. And I've heard a couple of those. I actually thought you were going to say to me that as you've gotten older, you are less attached to that perfectionist thing of still wanting to fix stuff, still wanting to, you know, that feeling of, I should have. Yeah. Doesn't it get easier though, older you get... Unless I'm asking because I really hope that it gets easier. To me, it doesn't get easier. I always have those butterflies before I go on set with them on off stage or a go on stage. Yeah. I still get those butterflies. I still want to do better. I still want to polish. I still get affected by something that I loved maybe three years ago and I watched them.

5:03I'm like, Oh, one day I want to make something like that. And when I get that opportunity, I'm like, Okay, now this is the time to make that. And I realize, sometimes you realize that, Hmm, you're not going to get there because, you know, the budgets are not the same. Oh my gosh. Please can we not even talk about budget? Your wife and I had such a long, long, long face. Oh my gosh. People think that because there's a Netflix, there's a canal plus. They're like, finally, all these euros are pouring in. But the industry is not feeling that holistically. You know, there's the few projects here and there that really we know Netflix really pours. But I don't think I think there's an expectation. Which projects are those? Which one are they pouring in? I want to know. You want to be there. But I think there is a perception from the outside where you would imagine that at the where we are in the industry right now,

6:05where internationally our stories are being appreciated and seen, it looks on the outside like, I saw the African Remy, which is the same as music. You know, Tyler's out there now. Everybody thinks. Yeah. But in reality, when I speak to fellow industrymen, it is dry. It is quiet. That's true. Has that forced you to become more creative? I mean, that the creative spirit never leaves you. Whether there's money, whether there's drought, whether there's, it never leaves. Please don't tell some people that because they'll say, oh, they don't need money. No, but I'm just saying that, you know, you never stop creating because they are, they are problems. Yes, you know, they might frustrate you one day. But every time you wake up and you see something, you're like, okay, man, I want to put this in that. I want to do this in the whatever. And until you know, the right moment comes and maybe one of these channels wake up and go like, oh, let's put a little bit of a dollar in your, in your project.

7:06Yes. And then everything comes alive again. Then you go back to the, you know how it is with the industry, with freelancing as well. You go back to that drought, becomes dry again. Yes. Then you have to work and rework your way back in. And then they're watching you on a project and they think you're rich now. Not knowing you ate the money last year. You know me. That money is all good. It's all good. It's worse when you're playing a rich character, driving a Bentley on the series. And when they meet you on the streets, you know, my look rough and rugged and they're like, ah, what happens to that guy? You know my grandma couldn't understand. Like if you played a character that was a mayor and then suddenly you're playing a domestic worker, they think you got demoted. That's right. I owe you lemon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on, man.

8:07Start going to church. What is going on with you? I remember the first time I got an opportunity to work with you was through bomb at zone 14. Yes. And I was so, what is the, I'm looking for a very specific word. But let me describe. Do you know the feeling of anxious, excited, scared? It's like this combination of like, I kind of prayed for this because we were watching, he's or he's or now you're like the same people are doing this thing. And I just remember being on set and things moving so fast. And one of the scenes I did with you with the late Chris who played bazooka. Yes, yes. And I just remember thinking this man is crazy, but I guess that's why he's good. And I was like, you said something to me that I cannot repeat on it because BCC say. What did I say? I'm gonna tell you off air, but it was, it was a, we had come out of intimacy.

9:10And there's something you needed to see on camera. But what you said to me, which was make me want to want you, make the viewer want to want you. And not just the act of your kissing your character boyfriend. And I remember thinking to myself, okay, and afterwards you like, we got the take. And I remember that day being like, okay, I think I'm finally understanding the acting, that acting thing. The words and how you explained it. And even just your energy as a director. And please know folks, all directors are different. All of them need to have at least one screw loose to do the kind of work that you do. Just one, you know, to be experimental. And I really wanted if you knew that your influence was as big as what it is. That it isn't just directing a scene. It's this young, impressionable actor who suddenly was like, oh, I think I get it.

10:10Well, I think we work different as directors. You know, their directors were very technical. They love the cameras that are moving and doing all these camera gymnastics and stuff. And their directors who are emotionally connected, they want to go into the cycle of the character and stuff like that. And their directors who just let the actors be. And because they trust, you know, you're talented enough to be in the show. So what I'm going to do is just to spark your imagination to think of other things beyond just you being pretty on screen or stuff like that. So I'm thinking I'm that guy. Just beyond just being pretty. I just want to play with you. Imagine there's like, give me this paint, paint me yellow, green, purple. Let me see beautiful colors. For those that didn't start your journey with you, they might have first remembered you as a minor, go easy, dingo. Where did it really begin? Actually, I started in theater.

11:15I did. Were you Gibson cantering? I missed Gibson cantering by a year or two. But I had an opportunity to work with the people who worked with my game. I remember the work of Bragibu, they were taking it from, for me, the township set up into like a more mainstream theater. And it was directed by the Geron Mufuge, the director was playing a character called Mappet. Even today still calls me Mappet. That's all those years. To him I'll always be Mappet. So, yeah, that's when, and then he tried to mix the two scholarly trainings. And the ones who come from the Gibson canters, and the ones who come from like a formal education set up. Just to put them together. So we had a bit of a learning from that side, also learning from this side.

12:17So I was able to embrace that. And then I went into, I think my first movie that took me out. It was hijack stories by Oliver Schmitz. Oliver Schmitz is a director who did Mappet and Surla. If you remember the days, back in the days. One of the great directors that we have, but he's no longer staying in South Africa. He's in Germany. I think that's the first one that gave me that break. And then obviously, internationally, my agent Munin was working very hard in those days. I remember you used to walk. My first or worse than piece two. You know, man? Yes. So Munin used to have a suitcase of VHS tapes. And in those, in that suitcase, one of those VHS tapes was my tape. So she would go around selling us to the world. So take a flight, go to LA and send us. She did that. To say, hey, come to shoot in South Africa.

13:17This is the talent that we have. She played a very big role in making sure that, you know, all these productions that you see in Cape Town now, feeling very friendly and being well accommodated by Aua. Shooting here. She was one of the people who really pushed the Hollywood kind of like industry to look into South Africa as well. And you know, the brand South Africa at that time was very rich. And of course, now we know the international are always shooting here. The Iron Man houses, they, there is no international that is, it's like they are faking LA and other places in Cape Town. Really, for real. Yeah, everything has been fake here. But this one that I'm, this one that I'm working on now, we just shot the first phase in Morocco and we played in the coming shoot here in South Africa in the Dracansburg by a, a Nigerian director, Oscar. It's very panoficking in this approach.

14:18Now he looked at things and whatever. I was so scared when he said, want to come and shoot inside. I was like, ah, now the people from Nigeria are going to say that they don't want to come here because we have problems. And it was like, no, man, we're coming there. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go. So we'll be shooting in the Dracansburg between, maybe November until Jan. People are making notes in their diaries booking what Dracans beg. I will meet Tony. I'm not saying we talk about Africa. Which of the South African directors did you really learn the most from? And considering that we have the directors who are great with multi-cam and doing the soapy machine. And then we have the single cam. And then we have the ones that you're shooting a 30-second advert over seven days. Yeah. But which are the ones that you, you learn to the most from? You know, I learned from everyone. I remember when I was doing a sitting, a great of me, I was still directing also producing.

15:20I learned a lot from Gray, from the business side also, in terms of, you know, that multi-cam thing. And then the late, the late, the last, you really introduced me to paying details into when you're shooting with single cam. Very detailed guy with the Angus Gibson of the world. That's when, you know, we turned into doing zone 14. Yes. And remember now when we did zone 14, we had to mix because I think there was pressure from the broadcaster because you have to bring in people who were used to shooting like 18 pages a day. Yes. You're saying other people were coming and say, I only shoot six pages a day. Yes. So at that time, the SABC, so that, you know, it's possible to shoot 18 pages. So why don't these productions do the same as others? But not understanding that the multi-cam, and so we had to bridge the gap between multi-cam and single cam. Because we didn't want to lose also the new ones of single cam,

16:23but also, you know, shooting one location not in studio. Can we quickly explain to the listener so we're not too much in TV length talk? So when we say multi-cam, imagine when you shoot with one phone and you're shooting, that's the angle you have. So single cam means every angle you see on screen, they had to redo the scene and move the camera multiple times. So the actor's on set, everybody gets an opportunity to do it over and over again. And then you even will take the time doing close-ups on each side. Whereas multi-cam, your world can't be 360. There's more than one camera, and you don't necessarily shoot more scenes in a day, but it has its own limitations. Have I explained it enough? Yeah, I think you got it. And mostly with multi-cam, you should mostly your soapies and long form. And then single cam is usually your films and your dramas. The dramas you use. It's so crazy, as we're speaking and you're realizing how many people have passed on over the years.

17:29Is there a part of you that feels like there is something that we are losing in all these legendary creatives that are gone from your iconic actors? I mean, I think just about zone 14, we had Mamco and Mam90. We had so many other actors that are no longer with us. They were all excited the first five episodes of zone 14. And they're all gone. What do you think the legacy is going to look like in 23 years when the ones that lived and breathed the research that really went through the full process of making a story happen versus this world where you can type a prompt and have a whole movie? It's a sad thing, but we're trying to hold on even to what we have learned from those who passed on.

18:33And luckily most of them, they did teach the ones who were coming behind them to pass the baton. So we tried to keep it tight and also pass it on to the ones who were coming. But also being aware that the world is changing, your AI is taking over and all those kinds of things and try to lend the new ways and adapt to these new ways but also not losing the soul and the spirit of who we are. As you were saying it, are there parts of you that are nervous about the future of your craft, your livelihood? Yeah, to a certain extent, I mean if you see what these things can do, do you like, how am I going to compete with this thing? If this thing can put a clip in a 15 minute clip in less than two minutes, how am I going to compete with that? And it can even be a clip of you in your voice.

19:35Yeah, everything with your facial expressions and your voice being emitted to do those kind of things. And the worry is that in Africa, the whole of Africa, I haven't seen any tool, AI tools being developed by any of us. So that also is worrying us that we're not getting into that space to try to start developing those kinds of tools and push ourselves towards what we create and how we can create it without losing who we are. And you remember if you put any image of an African person on thing, you can see that this is AI. Yes. Because it sees an African as this one person, right, unless you prompt it to go with the set in the room. Also the issues of IP, intellectual property when it comes to these kind of things. How far do we go? If you prompt this machine with your ideas and creativity, who owns that?

20:35And because what happens is it just grabs data. And if someone else asks something closer to what you're asking, it can just refer that person to that. It's literally like five billionaires in the world that own it's literally like five people that crazy. It's like five people that own it all. We're going to head over to the news when we come back. We continue with Mr. Tony Choroh here. See some of your questions coming in. Odeble one, double eight, three, seven, two, the WhatsApp line, O7, two, seven, two, one, seven, O2. Seven notes to you. The upside of failure. Proof that a setback can be to a step forward. 22 minutes, two, three, a clock, the upside of failure in conversation with Mr. Tony Choroh here, actor and director. Odeble one, double eight, three, O7, O2. And the WhatsApp line, O7, two, seven, O2, on seven, O2. If you want to see what he looks like, drive, go in one as if you're going before Pretoria. I think the billboard is before Winnie Mandela. It's somewhere there. It's huge.

21:35But I think you're also in other places, right? You're in other places. Yes. Have you actually driven to go see yourself? No. I dropped there almost every day. So I see myself all the time. I'm asking because I've seen so many actors who will go to the billboards and it's like such a vibe. I'm not at that stage yet. In life. I haven't known. I... I... I... I sometimes wonder when I see some of your work. And I don't know. You must share. Do you ever feel like somewhere in your career you started getting type cost? Yeah. It happens. And I... And you know sometimes what it is? Is that giving you a role in your life? Because I'm broke. I'm going to take it. And the thing is that the roles you look so good in there are the struggle error roles. Wherever there's suffering.

22:35Everything has to do with something. Everything is totally. Totally. Because I just... I think about all your roles. You're like a dirty cop or like somebody. But you always look like you are so good at looking like you're suffering. Amen. It's called acting. What do you do about the concept of type casting? Considering that we're not as big as Hollywood. I know many Hollywood actors will be like the roles I'm choosing from now. I'm more aligned. Man, in South Africa just take the job. Take it until you write your own that is different or a different role that you want to play. Because what you just say in that is literally saying no to making a buck. And we don't have a lot. Is either you are in the soapy here in South Africa or then you can have your monthly income.

23:35Or you're going to struggle to be a freelancer. Who moves from one movie that will come maybe once or twice in three years. Unless you write your own and you start selling it and go to festivals. Reach out to international markets and stuff like that. It's a lot of work. But sometimes it's worth it. It's one hit internationally. It's you good coming back home. You are so good. Yeah. I know that abroad there's this thing where they say if somebody wins the Oscar for Peace Act. And then they suddenly don't get work anymore. And in South Africa it's not like our lives magically change because you have a scepter. What do you think and believe the future of this whole awards system needs to look like? You're... I think I'm the wrong person. No, tell me that truth. Tell me that truth. So I... I'm not...

24:35I don't like these awards. I'm really... I really get dragged through these things literally to say like, please. Why? Why? Is it because of the... And again for anybody who isn't away. Some awards are voted for by the public. Some awards, it's like a group of people of jury members that will nominate and whatever else. Other awards and the supplies even to the music industry where if now people complaining, are black actors having won all of a sudden? All the black actors are winning. I want to ask you because we've directed these. Yes, I have. So what did you think? If you like honestly being there and they're like, I'm putting this thing together. Here are the nominees. Here's whatever. I always voted and what. Do you truly believe in that process? As if you're honest. No, I'm going to be real. So fortunately because I've done the producing and the directing part of awards,

25:37there's a very strict auditing process that we cannot be a part of it. Because we're also contenders as a production house. How can... How many corros you can hear. No, I love what you say to me. I hear you. You are hearing things. So let me tell you honestly, had you asked me this question ten years ago? I would have said to you that awards are important and there have been moments where I personally felt like I'm so overlooked, right, in the spaces that I'm in. But where I am in life today, because I understand that you must take certain... Let me rephrase. You should take accolades with a pinch of salt. Because it does not... If I attach too much of my value to whether I have a trophy or not, it's going to impact how I walk into the next project. So for me, I think it is great in that it's a beautiful marketing exercise. It is a beautiful opportunity for us to celebrate certain things. I do think as a country, sometimes government is way to involved in certain things

26:41where abroad it's quite independent. But for me, as a relebrile, I've reached the point in my career where I say whether it happens or not, it doesn't matter because the old me attached my value to whether I was recognised or not. So it does not matter to me anymore whether it was an inverted commas fair, credible, bloody blah, if that makes sense. So that's my view today and that's why I truly enjoy. The first few times I was like, I didn't even get a nomination or I didn't win. And then I was like, no, because I needed to be on the side that helped bring people up. Meaning the winning part was no longer important to me. And I would judge myself on that. And I don't know if it's a uniquely woman thing, if it's a whatever thing. But I also know that trophy might not change your life the way you think it will. Yeah, that's true. And then again, it goes back to the criteria. Whatever criteria has been used, sometimes you look at what they say they're looking for.

27:45And you look at the winner, you're like, I'm going to cry more. Quite dirty, I bet you've written down. And what I'm seeing is oil and water, you know? I think the process will always be flawed for as long as it's not something that can be. And I don't mean audited by votes. But for as long as you have 10 creatives in a room watching a single performance, somebody in the room is going to think it was terrible. Somebody might have never seen Tony before and think brilliant. And then the guy who thought you were terrible is going to say, because I saw him do bet I in this other project. So the process will never be fully because auto subjective. Yeah. It's not like sport. Do you hear you lost? You're not going to the next one. The next one. Yeah. So that's the tricky part. Like Tyler won an award for Afrobeats. Her music is not Afrobeats. But that's the only category she qualified for. Does it mean she's less deserving of a Grammy? No. I'm glad that she's getting her yay.

28:45But as South Africans, we know that ain't no Afrobeats. You know? So it's a pinch of salt for me. And then again, what does it do? Like what does that thing do for you as an actor? We need money, but can they give it with money? Like, there's nothing that happens. Like we don't even have, well, South Africa is worse because we don't have a, we don't have a certain status that we can put we say, okay, fine, we have an a list character. I mean, actors, it'd be less than stuff like everybody can work up and say I'm an a list actor in South Africa. Well, in other countries, you know, there's a, it's formula. There's a standard and this thing is formalized. When you win an Oscar, you are considered to be a certain type of an actor and you belong within that range, right? In South Africa, you can come back with 10, 10 softest. You still get the same coffee. No, but you know why though, you know why you can't be a list if you're living in my

29:45complex. In South Africa. That's what South, that's how we think, right? Isn't that what we think? I don't do that in a complex. So they will never look up to you. We do need to take a quick break before I get in trouble. We continue when you come back. Your questions. I see them. 7-0-2, the WhatsApp line 07-2, 7-0-2, 1-7-0-2. 7-0-2. The upside of failure. Proof that a setback can be to a step forward. 11 minutes, 2-3 o'clock, the upside of failure with Mr. Tony Choroché, director and actor Odeble one, double eight, 3-0-2, the WhatsApp line 07-2, 7-0-2, 1-7-0-2. There's a question here. Please ask Mr. Choroché about the role he played in Hotel Rwanda, meeting and working with Don Chidel. Did he feel any form of pressure from being in front of or behind the camera? Wow. You know, I was very lucky to work with Don and…

30:48First name, Paces. Yeah, Don. Well, he's a family friend. Oh, yes. So Don is a friend. He was so friendly that you even forgot that he's… Conjured these guys as superstar from Hollywood. So, he literally made the set to be so comfortable for all of us. And remember the fundamental corners of this world was the… Desmondoube was there. Even when working with Sophie Okonedo as well, it was such a great… And we had so much fun doing that set story, you know. It is amazing what Adder's. That you're laughing in between takes. You know what I mean? Yeah. But when you watch it later on in understanding the true… I mean, we did research and everything and we understood the depth of the story. But because we were… I think it was also another way of escaping going deeper into those heavy emotions.

31:52So, in between takes, she just want to laugh and laugh it off and let this thing go away and then come back again and go into that tense moment and stuff like that. You… Let me go to this message. Humility and soft spoken wisdom, excellence and achievement bubbling throughout. Thank you for also remembering legends who have passed on. Keep going, Dr. Filamon Mahuma and midstream. And then another one, Kili V from K1 says, Yer Brasox, the original legend. What do you say to that? Yeah, well, Brasox is that movie that I was talking about that was directed by all of ushmets that literally gave me a kind of like a highlight in the film industry. And this put me out there, you know. So, I truly enjoyed it. I wish we could do hijack stories too now at this age. I don't know what all of us think. I'll send him the clip of this in two years.

32:52Why not? Because if Tyler Perry can bring back how did I get married 20 years later? Why not? Right? Yeah, maybe we must think about that. Have a think about it. And in terms of your new show, Umteh To, tell us all about that, like the Moshe Moses. Yeah. Well, it was a… This one, we really went heavy on it as well. In terms of what we're shooting, I mean, Manda Anne from Black Brain, I'm just put on a very amazing team for us to be able to work with. And we had such a beautiful ensemble cast working together and no, no leading, you know, Loshakupa as well. The NS, you remember him from zone four years? Yes, yes. You know, all those guys who were there, we just made sure that, you know, we bring our weight on and we truly crack this role.

33:54Tell me about the most difficult type of research you've ever had to do for a character because, you know, this is because of zone 14, we know some of our actors literally spend time in mortuaries. Yeah. And I heard the horror stories, my goodness. What has some of the toughest research you've done for a role that, or even for directing, that you came out of it like, oh wow. Actually, it was an experience that we wanted to have. I remember when we were doing a long walk to freedom with Idris, with Idris Elba. A pedifold number, right? Yes. So we went to Roman Island and we wanted to know how it felt like to sleep there. But obviously, there was no one there now. Yes. It was just those, and we went to be locked in and then just happened experience and something. Did we not, like, I couldn't sleep?

34:55I was gonna say, don't you think that some of the people that lost their lives there, there's something spiritual going on in that, like, dark? No, I don't know, but hey, it was not an easy thing to do. But actually, and you know that experience, it actually gave me a push for this character that I was playing Moses with him, trying to, it's like, you know, when you locked in, this is when you locked in the room, and everywhere you look, you just started it by mirrors. So you look up, it's the mirror side mirror, you look on the floor, it's the mirror. So you're the only person there, whatever you look into, you're looking at yourself, and the only person who can make you survive out of anything out of that is yourself. Which is the perfect metaphor to life. Yeah. Because that's all that it is, even how we see the world is, it mirrors back to us. Yeah. Who we are. True. When you were a kid, what was your understanding of what failure is compared to what you believe failure is today?

36:00You know, you don't want to win, I was, I was very noteworthy when I was young. We know. He's still not as a grown man. So great to be with, I don't care, whatever. Bring it on. Yeah. So dead to the worst, you know, and with my friends, we're also in that kind of space. I want to be a ranch. Yes. Just the same juice. I don't even want to translate for the listeners. I'm just not going the, so yeah. So in terms of failure, I just, I, I saved through it. But obviously there will be those moments. And especially, I didn't want to see, I don't want to fail my mother, my dad, my grandmother, my grandfather. I always tell them it hard. Those are the only people that I care about. If they say, do this like I would do it and make sure that I do it.

37:03If I hear them saying, well done, and my world was like, yeah. Is it harder getting, is it more emotional getting the well done from your children? It is harder. Is it more emotional, more intense getting a well done from your children? This is the parents, because it's a whole different. You, my kids are very expressive, but they all, they will always say well done. And I think it's a beautiful thing. It's so heavenly to have them. You know when you are in family and those kind of things come up, no matter what happened. It just, even when you broke, it just brightens up your day. So the lesson kids is have a child so that even when you are broke, your day can be brightened. When you walk, and you just walk through the door and they come running, and they grab you by their knees.

38:03Everything just goes, yuck. And becomes better. Where can we see you in the future? I mean, the next ten years from now? The next ten years from now? Yes. I hope that I will get to a point where I get a better understanding of this AI thing and connect it with whatever we do within the creative and cultural industries. I have a perspective where or a platform that we can command and control without losing who we are as people. And when do we see you on Um Teto? When do you see Um Teto? Yes. Um Teto is on Netflix. And it's on? Now? It is now. Yes, now. As we speak, now you can click on Netflix and go Um Teto, you can watch it. Mr. Choroch, thank you so much.

39:03Not just for coming. And I know how haunted was being dragged here. But just for your contribution to the industry, your contribution to my life and my career, we truly appreciate you. And even though the trophy is on everything, they'll be an Oscar for you. And then you'll be like, hey, I lied, I take it back. Who's the Tony Choroch? Thank you very much.