This Family Drama Has a Gravitational Pull

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From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Dave Ramsey.

Jayde Washaw is my co-host today, Ramsey Personality, number one best selling author.

Our phone number here is triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five.

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Sean is in Fargo, North Dakota.

Hey, Sean, what's up in your world?

Well, not much, Dave.

Just enjoying my life.

Good.

How can we help?

So I am kind of stressed out right now in the little,

it's kind of in the pickle it feels like with my family.

They are give or take five to six million dollars in their family business debt.

And I am struggling to, struggling like through cope with like my bed has a failing health

and he owns the family business and he is not worried about the major debt that his business has.

Okay.

You work there?

Uh, part time.

Okay.

But I can't, I can't handle full time.

Can't handle it.

What do you mean?

Him?

You can't handle him?

No, just the ideology he has and the business feelings.

Okay.

So why is it bringing you stress?

You have a part time job with a business that's in trouble and with a guy whose ideology

you don't agree with.

Why would that be cause you to be stressed for?

I will be more likely to be inheriting it with my three brothers with business, which

is probably worth around 10 million dollars.

And so I'm kind of in talks right now to take over the books and hold like a business

side of it to pretty much be full time.

When are you supposed to do that?

Probably within the next 10 to 15 years.

I'm so confused.

Okay.

Um, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, so you're going to be part time with a guy you disagree with while he runs a business

in the ground that is 10 years and you're going to stand there and watch it happen and

then they're going to hand it to you and call that a blessing.

Yeah.

Why don't you just say I don't want it?

Yeah.

I don't I don't want it.

So I, I mean, it's a good, I shouldn't say it's a good business, but is it really worth

because he tries to get me to go full time like almost a weekly on a weekly basis?

Well, you tell us the upside because you called in and said all the negative things.

So it makes sense that he would say it sounds like something I want to do.

How would you want to do this?

Yeah.

So, so I guess I just want to ask, should I try to like almost intervene and be like, you

should start taking off this debt?

Well, because they're thinking about adding another $2.5 million debt.

You might, my family.

Your brothers.

Yeah.

My brother.

Who are your future brothers?

Another million dollars in the debt.

Who are your future brother?

Who are your future partners?

My brothers.

Yeah, but you said your brothers are dumb as your dad.

You said it before yourself, Sean, you said their ideologies completely different than yours.

And I think you need to accept that, that that's the case.

And you haven't said anything that shows any sign of them changing that ideology.

And so if they continue down this path for the next however many years, they're just

entrenching themselves further in that.

And you're part time.

What do you do for a living?

I operate heavy equipment.

All right.

Are you, are you the baby of the family?

No, I'm not talking about it.

I'm altering all this.

Middle, okay.

All right.

Yeah.

Well, here's the thing.

I don't think that these people are going to change.

Do you?

No, I don't.

Okay.

So you either got to walk away from them.

Are you going to enjoy their bulk wrap?

Yeah.

I mean, you really do.

You're going to have to decide which one you're going to be.

If it's me, I'm going to let them have it.

I'm going to walk away.

This sounds like a bear trap.

Sounds like it's going to tear your freaking leg off.

It's going to, the next 10 years of your life are going to be pure freaking misery until

the old man dies.

And then when he dies, now you got partners that were trained by him called your brothers.

No, thank you.

I don't want in this.

I'm sure.

I'm sure.

Yeah.

I just, I, there's nothing here that aligns with who you are or who you want to be.

This all sounds like misery.

And there's not enough money there to food with.

Let them have it.

They're going to screw it up.

It's going to be worth nothing.

Yeah.

And you don't believe that.

You're still, you think your, your wife thinks you're walking away from a million dollars

and you're not.

You're walking away from a million dollars worth of debts, what you're walking away

from.

In 15 years.

I would sit down if you want to have one final conversation with the boys and with the

dad and say, guys, I don't, I'm uncomfortable with as much debt and I'm not going to join

the business as long as you guys continue to run it further up into debt and have no

desire to get out of debt because it makes me uncomfortable.

I don't agree with this.

And I can love you.

And if you want to go over there and do something that I don't agree with, we can still be

dad and son.

We can still be brothers.

I can still love you.

But I do not want to personally be involved in this.

It brings me great stress just thinking about it.

And so if you guys want to commit to a path that gets us out of debt and keeps us out

of debt as a permanent way of doing business, I would love to join and be part of this

thing.

I think it's got a future, but I am not going to get on this horse when you have this

many bricks in the saddlebags.

Listen, I agree with that 100% clearly easier said than done because you're going to have

basically your whole family on this side and you're the lone ranger over here.

That's not easy, but I agree 100%.

Well, the thing is you put her by on notice and 100% chance they're not going to do it.

No.

And so you're basically saying, here's why I'm going to go on and have my great life

over here and I'm going to love you.

I've got family members.

Most of my family members don't know the stuff I teach.

But I'm not in a deal with them either.

That's right.

And I still love them.

Some of them even vote wrong.

And I still love them.

But that doesn't mean I have to go around and be in business with them.

And it doesn't mean I have to sit around and be stressed and I'm somehow guilted into

joining something I completely disagree with.

No, walk away from it, son of a whirth it.

You make a lot of money running your own heavy equipment operation without any debt.

That's probably the other part of it is there's a lure that maybe just possibly one day it

could be good then you look back and you're like, man, I should have stayed part of it,

right?

He's probably thinking about that little one or two percent.

Yeah.

I'm going to pet an alligator and hope it doesn't bite.

What do they do?

They bite.

You know, it's dumb.

You're just asking for it.

Don't think they're going to change.

They don't only do how to do one thing in this bite.

So don't be shocked when they bite.

I mean, it's just, your dad says what he does is he's a predictable environment.

Yeah.

And he didn't hide it.

He just said that's who I am.

Yeah.

That's right.

And he kind of said like it or lump it.

That's right.

That's what I do.

I mean, you know, it's just it's hard to walk away from something like that, especially when

all the family ties.

It feels like you're being drawn in by a tractor beam.

Yes.

You know, gravitational pull.

Yeah.

Yes, drama has a gravitational pull.

I've noticed that.

Drama.

Drama.

Family drama.

Yes.

We'll suck you in and eat your life.

Yeah.

And then we connect a little $5 million debt to it just for the fun of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

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Nicole is in Atlanta.

Hi, Nicole.

How are you?

Hi.

I'm good.

How are you?

Good.

What's up?

So Mima has been living in an apartment, and we're trying to decide if we should move

to a bigger space because we do have two, three kids, so two or five year old twins, and

then a two year old baby girl.

So last year we were able to pay off our vehicle, but we had $52,000 worth of student

debt left, and we've been using mostly our overage, which is about $1,100, that we have

a month to put towards our debt, and then we also pretty much use our tax break or whenever

that comes in to sell a lot at it just in and out.

So we're trying to see if we want them to have a space to have a yard and just more space

a little bit cramped up with all five of us here, so we were just wondering if we should

stay, or if we should kind of go, like our budget would be tighter, but we're trying

to see what we should prioritize.

What are you guys earning between the two of you right now?

Um, growth would be $100,000,000.

Okay.

The hard part with this is what you said.

If you were to move from this apartment to a house, it's going to close the gap on how

much margin you have to throw out this debt, which means there's going to be a longer

period of time that you're going to be in debt, which long term that's going to affect

your ability to build wealth.

For that reason, I like the idea of home ownership, but I think the first step in that process

needs to be eliminating the debt so that you can actually go wholeheartedly into the home

buying process and actually do it the right way so that it's a blessing for you.

You're not even talking about home ownership, you're talking about renting a nicer place,

aren't you?

Yeah, yeah, we were actually like looking to our rent is $2,200, and so we were wanting

to rent like thinking about 25 as our max $2,200, but that doesn't include like gas and utility.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

I understand.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we just don't know if that's going to be leaving us with $400, but how much debt have

you paid off so far?

Uh, 36,000 with the vehicle.

And how long did that take?

Uh, that took us two years.

Okay.

Making $130,000.

Uh, $130,000.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you got to suck at this so far, Nicole.

Yeah.

We suck.

Yeah.

$18,000 making $100 grand per year is not enough debt reduction.

You guys are still out, you're still going out to eat, you're still going on vacation, you're

still spending money, you're still not on a tight budget.

And so you made a little progress, but you should have made a lot more progress.

If you don't mean you paid off 36,000 or six months, see then I can take that number and

go, oh, wait a minute, you could clear up the rest of this in a year if you'd suck it

up and get it done.

But at the rate you're going, it's going to take you 10 years.

Yeah.

That ain't cool.

That ain't great.

That's how we feel.

Yeah.

We got to not get stuck in that.

And if you feel like you're never going to get out, then you just so well to heck with

it, I'll just take a big old rent and go ahead and enjoy my life now and get the kids

a yard.

Right.

That you're giving up is what you're doing because you're not making fast enough progress.

And so I'm going to put you on the beans and rice plan.

If I'm you, I'm going to sit down with my husband and go, look, we did a little bit here

and we didn't do a bad thing, but we really weren't.

It wasn't like we were spectacular.

We kind of got the flu here and we need to really light this thing up and instead of putting

$1500 a month on it, we need to take extra jobs.

We need to sell stuff.

We need to not go out to eat.

We need to tight, tight, tight, tighten down this budget, not go the other way.

And let's get this thing to $3,000 or $4,000 a month going at this $6,000, $60,000 that's

left.

And then we can get out in about 14 or 15 months, then we can talk about building emergency

fun.

And then we talk about buying a house, not rent and want.

Yeah.

But what you're talking about is a five or a six year plan and you won't even make it.

I agree.

If you can have these kids, they're young right now, right?

They're five years old, three years old.

Now's the time that they can be squished and they don't know the difference.

You know the difference, but they don't know the difference.

And I, for one, would try to stay in that position as long as possible and save as much

money as possible so that you can pay as debt.

If they're squished and their life is miserable for one year, that's better than them being

not squished and having a mediocre to average life for the rest of their life.

You want to know what though?

I think back a lot of times on the house that I grew up in.

And I think back on the house that my parents grew up in with six kids.

Yeah, nobody told us we were tiny.

Nobody told us we were squished.

No.

We were.

But nobody told us we were.

There's a thousand square foot brick, brick, and so I mean, we went out in the backyard

and played.

They said go play in the graphic.

Yeah, go outside.

You didn't have to.

Yeah, just play outside.

It's all the time.

Did you tell your kids to go play in the graphic?

You don't tell your kids.

I don't tell them to play in traffic.

I just tell them to.

My mother would say that all the time, but don't play in the traffic.

Get out.

I'm gonna go under my feet.

Yes.

That's what calls me to be the way I am.

Dustin is in cordal an eye to hoe.

Hey, Dustin, what's up?

Hi.

So I'll get ready to do it.

My dad incurred about $30,000 in debt.

He has no retirement.

His only income is in social security.

He now has dementia and my brother and I are left kind of trying to manage this for him.

He's currently being sued on one credit card for $8,000, and he owes $13,000 on another

credit card.

And I guess my question is, should we try and settle this with him?

Does he own anything?

No.

No assets.

Well, how would he settle it?

I essentially, my brother and I would have to help him out.

Why?

Why would you do that?

Hey.

Just tell him, tell the credit card company to bite me.

He has no money.

He has nothing to give.

They can't get anything.

He doesn't have anything, right?

Yeah.

He has nothing.

It's the only social security.

I don't believe they can touch that.

They can't touch that.

Does he own a home?

No.

No.

He doesn't have any money.

He's bank account except the social security.

Yeah.

It would just be for me and my brother to have one less thing to have to deal with.

I wouldn't deal with it at all.

I got one less thing.

I'm just going to show him the smallest finger on my left hand and say, that's all you

get.

Nothing.

Are they calling you?

No.

No.

I just tell him, you know, I'm jumping a creek.

You shouldn't have loaned money to a guy who had dementia and no money.

Okay.

And should I offer to have him sign a stipulated judgment to avoid additional attorney

fees or?

I wouldn't tell.

Who cares?

They're not going to get any of it.

What I would do is call him up and say, if you want to talk to him, call him up and

just say this.

I want you to make a note in the file.

He has advanced dementia and zero assets.

I'm not going to have any conversations with you.

You might as well write this off because you're not getting a dime.

And just real simple.

I mean, let's pretend he had passed away.

Okay.

I just sent him a copy of the death certificate as a courtesy to let him know and let him

know that there's not a, that there's no estate and then after that, I'm not having any

more discussions with these people.

They're morons.

Yeah.

None of this can pass to you if you're worried about that.

No.

Yeah.

I'm not worried about that.

I mean, it's his death.

Yeah.

I'm not responsible for that.

Yeah.

It's just sad.

And it's one of this part.

It's a sad sub chapter, sub paragraph in this overall sad story that you're dealing with.

But what I would do is just say, I'm not going to worry about it at all.

And if you want to have one conversation just as a courtesy, you could.

But I'm not going to have lengthy conversations.

I'm not going to have multiple conversations.

And I'm not going to give him a dime.

There's no point in it.

They shouldn't alone him the money.

Yeah.

I agree.

And it's just sad.

I'm sorry for you having to face that.

And you know, I've run into situations like that in my life, dust and how old are you?

I'm 44.

Yeah.

I've run into situations like that.

And what I do is I say, okay, I got to help my dad out in your case.

This is what you're saying.

I've got to help my dad out.

And this is a sad situation.

And so what I'm going to get from this is a lesson to never end up like this.

Right.

I'm going to do whatever it takes in my life to not end up this way.

It's like, you know, I was working for a guy one time.

He goes, I might be working in McDonald's at my retirement, but it'll be the one I own

in the St. Thomas.

Someone now.

So I'm going to learn a lesson from those old people standing there working in McDonald's

because they don't have any money.

I don't want to be one of them.

That's right.

And so you look at this and you go, he's got no assets, he's got dementia, and the only

positive thing in his life is he's got two sons that love him and are going to care for

him.

Other than that, this guy's a pauper, we would use old language, but it's very sad.

And so take it as a lesson to go, I'm there, you know, and then you teach your kids.

Your grandpa went it up that way.

Your grandpa was not a bad person, but this is how he ended up.

And this is how we're not from this point forward, the family tree changes.

We're shifting it.

That's right.

So take a lesson from it at least, at least get that out of it, but no, I wouldn't give

those guys any money.

Not a dime.

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Hey, I'm very blessed to be speaking with you and Jay Dave.

Thank you.

How can we help?

Yes, sir.

So my wife and I are working on baby step four and six.

We are both nervous about a retirement and working with a financial planner.

We are a visor.

We've never worked with one before.

So we both grew up in households with pensions, but no nest egg to fall back on.

And so we're really nervous about the future and either one of us want to retire for.

Good for you.

Well, what you don't want from an advisor, I'm not sure why you're nervous.

I want to hear that in a minute, but what you don't want is from an advisor.

Those arrogance or dropping their glasses on the end of their nose and shaming or telling

you what you need to do.

These are all warning signs that you run from that you should be nervous about.

When you sit down with a good advisor, they should be teaching you and saying, this is

how this thing works, and this is why I personally use it, and this is why Dave Ramsey

recommends this, and here's how it works.

And you say, well, I don't understand, okay, well, let me teach you another way.

Well, I still don't understand, okay, then your job is to teach me and then I will decide.

I kind of think of it this way.

I think about, sometimes I go into a nice restaurant and we ask the waiter, you know, what's the

best thing in here?

You ever done that?

Yes, sir.

And I don't always get what they suggest, because sometimes what they suggest, I don't

like.

Yeah, we don't turn my choices over to them.

I just listen to them and then I make my choice.

Yes, sir.

So we've been doing it on our own for several years.

We basically started putting in 15 percent, I guess, about five or six years ago after

we finally were able to.

And so we were trying to, we're playing catch up, because we are, we are in our 50s now.

And so we're trying to play catch up.

And so, but we are, our 401K is not doing, not kicking out the percentages that we hear

on the show that like that, that the S&P did last year, everything.

And so, but we have talked to a couple of financial people.

Some of them are out of state.

We don't know that ends and outs are working with somebody out of state.

I would work with somebody in your neighborhood.

Okay.

See, that's what me and my wife thought, but we were basically told by somebody we were

old school, that that's the old way to thinking that somebody's always got a opinion about

your money.

Have you noticed that?

Yes, sir.

Oh, yes, sir.

Yeah.

So, what I did, listen, if you just go to Ramsey Solutions, you click on Smart Vestor

Pro, you'll find several people in Birmingham that we recommend and we don't recommend them

if they don't have the heart of a teacher.

And they don't agree with the stuff we teach here on the air.

And so, that's a baseline.

And then you sit down and interview them and say, would I hire this person as my tutor,

as my teacher?

Okay.

So, we're kind nervous when we were with Smart Vestor Pro, but should we be willing to

turn over our money to them?

I don't know.

We don't know how that works.

A lot of it.

Well, you're 401K.

You can't turn over.

And you have to leave it at your workplace.

They can look at it for you and say, go back over to work and that's a choice you could

make right there that make you more, that one that particular fund outperformed the S&P,

the three you got didn't.

They can help you look at that, but they can't manage it.

By turning it over, all it is is you're setting the stuff under their management, but they're

not going to do anything without you telling them what to do.

I got you.

It's not like you sign them under your checking account.

They're not authorized to do trades, they're not authorized to do anything unless you tell

them to do it.

Okay.

Okay.

See, that's something we didn't know.

We didn't know.

When we do it, do we just have to turn everything over to them?

I would put everything on the table and let them look at the whole picture.

Yes, sir.

But I'm not going to lose control of it.

I don't lose control of anything.

See, when I hire a lawyer, some lawyers get confused.

They think they get to tell you what to do.

And I'm like, now you work for me.

You work for me.

You tell me what the situation is.

And then I will decide based on the information you teach me about this particular law, about

this particular situation, what I am going to do.

And then I'm going to tell you what to do.

Exactly.

You don't want to keep in control as to who's in charge here.

You know what I'm saying?

Oh, yes, sir.

I completely understand.

We're in our, like I said, I'm 52, so we're going down the track here getting closer

to what I was doing is saying I probably can make my money work harder with someone

who plays with money all day long teaching me.

Yes, sir.

That's all of it.

And that's okay.

That's all of it.

Well, that's what, yes, sir.

That's what we will do then.

That's where we just, we don't want to retire poor.

You're not, that's the biggest thing we're nervous about.

You're not, you're not going to retire poor.

You're going to retire rich.

I can tell just by talking to you, because you're free can pay an attention.

We people that retire poor don't bother to look at it.

Well, unfortunately, I think we look at it every day.

I'll say, yeah, you're getting all twisted up, man.

Get your plan, ride the plan, and have a little peace in your finances.

But yeah, that's, it does, it does, it takes, I think not knowing is what kills you.

100%.

The fact that I can already tell that guy's quite frugal just by listening, they're doing

the right thing.

And it's okay, everybody has their moment at different times in life where they wake

up and they go, oh crap, I got to get my money to get it.

Together.

And so for some of us, it's a little later down the line, but once to your point, once

you start paying attention, there is time to make things right, especially if you're doing

the Ramsey plan.

Chloe's in Orlando.

Hi, Chloe.

Chloe, how are you?

Hi, I'm great.

Hi, Dave and Jade.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

What's up?

All right.

So my fiance and I are getting married at the end of this year in October.

Great.

He has quite a bit of money saved, but we also have debt.

And we're also trying to save for our wedding.

So we kind of need some help figuring out how to go about this.

Cool.

How much do you have saved?

In total liquid saved, we have 123,000.

Awesome.

Awesome.

Who's we?

Wait a minute.

How much does he have?

How much do you have?

Okay.

Let me start with me.

I have only about 2,000.

Him and I together created a saving account that is about 2,000.

And he has the rest, which would probably be that 100,000.

Okay.

And the 22,000 I'm guessing is what I hope you're saving for the wedding.

That's correct.

Okay.

And what are you planning to spend on the wedding?

45,000.

Are there any family members helping out?

Yes.

We have my parents are giving us 10,000.

And then he has an uncle that has given him 10,000 as well.

Okay.

That's 42.

So that's 42.

So you're there.

And what is your household?

What is your income and what is his income?

His income is a take home around 96.

A little bit more with bonuses.

And in mind, I just for myself on salary, I do have my own business.

But on salary, I take home.

Oh, I don't care what your salary is.

What's your income?

What is the business profit going to be this year?

Oh, probably 80,000.

Okay.

Alright.

So you got a $200,000 income between you if you were to be married today.

Right.

You have 22,000 plus you have pledges to get you up to 45,000 for your wedding budgets.

Right.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

And then how much debt do you have and how much debt does he have?

Without the home, I have around 14,000 in credit card and my car.

And he has.

My 14 is the credit card and car.

About 42 hundred on my car and then I have 8,000 credit card.

Okay.

Alright.

Alright.

And then his truck is about 35,000 and he has a credit card of 34.

100.

100, sorry.

Okay.

Alright.

Cool.

Very easy then.

You do not need to combine finances until after the hunting moon.

Okay.

So he should pay off his truck and his credit card today out of his hundred.

Okay.

And you need to start working to pay off your 13 as fast as possible and the wedding is already

done.

Okay.

Now my question is, he is going to be worried about paying his truck off because that's doing

those down his savings account.

Well, you guys are going to have you guys are going to have to really quickly have a talk

about how you view debt and how you're going to manage debt and finances in your in your

marriage going forward.

Yeah.

He doesn't really have 100,000.

He already spent 34, but he just hadn't admitted it.

Well Dave, you know on the show all the time we get calls about cars used cars.

What's one thing you want folks to know?

Well, really a couple things.

Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars.

You don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used number two, you want it to last.

And that means regular, proper maintenance.

Yeah, that's a big deal.

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Logan's in Indiana, hey Logan, what's up?

Hey sir, how are we doing, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, how can I help?

Well, I'm trying to get some advice on my wife and I going into debt to start a cattle operation.

How long have you been listening to this show, Logan?

About six months or so.

So you know that about 95% of what we talk about is telling people to not go in debt and

how to get out of debt, right?

Yeah, it is.

I feel like I've heard a little bit of information with businesses that sometimes like buying

a business or something that can depend on the profit that it brings and how quickly can be paid

off.

So I wanted to see if that would work in this case.

No, that would be like buying it from an owner and the owner gets the former owner gets

the profit until not borrowing $150,000 to buy cows from the bank.

That's different.

Okay.

So I don't borrow money Logan and I've done that for 40 years and I run a business and I've

grown the business with the profits and the business without borrowing money to do it.

And because the simple fact is this, business has risk.

When you borrow money to start a business or run a business, you increase the risk 100

fold.

A lot more chance that you're going to go bankrupt.

And so what's your household income, sir?

About $120,000 to $130,000.

Great.

Getting on overtime.

Good for you.

So if you took out $150,000 loan, how fast could you pay it back?

Run the numbers that we ran given the market now, you know, and obviously as long as it

doesn't just completely tank out within about two years to three at the most by your

third.

Your third round of calves, everything should be completely paid off and it would be profit

after that minus operational cost.

Yeah.

So what would be wrong with starting a little bit smaller and taking four years and making

the thing cash flow its way to the exact same position?

By a third of what you're talking about?

Buying with cash.

Okay.

And make that third by the next third and by the next third.

You don't need any money out of this cattle operation.

You could pour every single dollar of profit into growing it.

Agreed?

Correct.

Yeah, that would be the plan.

Because you have a good income at home already.

I think it's what we call in business organically growing the business with your own cash.

And that's what we've done here.

Although we weren't able to do as fast as you're going to be able to do it.

And that's assuming cattle prices don't do what they have done in the past, which is they're all

over the freaking place as you know.

I'm sure you've looked at the trend lines on that.

It's scary.

So there's times the market has tanked and it's an agricultural product.

And so it's a lot more unpredictable than some other types of businesses.

So you've got to be very, very careful.

But if I were in your shoes, I would get, I would scratch the itch.

But I would save up $50,000, $75,000 in cash by living on nothing.

And I'd dump every bit of that in there.

And then I'd take every dime of profit and use it to grow the business.

And I think you'll be there one year later than you would have been there.

If you borrowed the money and everything went perfect, which by the way,

nothing ever goes perfect.

That's true.

Yeah.

I mean, you get the cows get sick.

There's all kinds of problems.

There's, you know, the Brazilians decide they're going to come in and, you know,

upset the beef market.

I don't know.

I mean, I don't know how this works.

But there's always something, right?

Correct.

So, yeah, I would rather you do that and be tired.

And stretch it on your cash.

And then no one's going to take it away from you.

You're not going to lose everything because you rolled the dice on this particular horse race.

I just crossed metaphors.

You do. That's all right.

No, that makes sense.

A follow-up to that would be if you were to cashflow this.

What's your opinion on, you know, like leasing pasture and stuff.

If you look at that as debt, or is that looked at a little bit different?

No, that's just over.

That's like leasing a building to run your business in instead of buying the building.

That's, there's no problem.

I would rent the pasture for sure.

Okay.

Now we've got two businesses.

If you buy the pasture, you got two businesses.

You got the real estate business and the farm and business.

Yeah.

I mean, it's like, it's like me.

I've got this building here that's 650,000 square feet, like, you know, 600,000, 600 million dollar property, right?

So I've got this piece of real estate.

I'm in the real estate business.

And I've got a business that's inside the real estate.

But I've got two things going on here.

Very substantial things.

Ramsey and the big old piece of real estate.

Big campus here, right?

I mean, I'm in the office building business period.

No matter how you cut it.

And you can set, you can mix those two together and act like, well, they're all one thing.

No, they're really not.

It's, I've got a big office building I could have leased it.

There's six of them right down the road down here.

I could have leased another one and not put, you know, not put.

Not put, not put half a billion dollars into this thing, right?

So that's, that's the thing.

So just, you, you know, need to get in the real estate business.

I just lease it.

If you're going to start a restaurant for God's sakes, don't buy the building.

Oh, gosh, please.

No.

Just rent the building and get started, you know, you're going to start a daycare rent the building.

And just don't, don't get in the real estate business until you've been in business a long time

and you've got a predictable environment.

But you don't have that there until then.

So, wow.

Cool.

I think we won that one.

Yeah, I think I think he's going to take your advice.

I think he's going to do it.

I believe in him.

I like it.

I like Logan.

All right.

That's kind of nice.

I'm, I like getting one occasion.

Leona's in Cincinnati.

Hi, Leona.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

Hi, Jade.

I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Um, so I have a quick question.

So my husband and I, we have a one year old.

And we recently moved, well, not recently last year.

We had switched from our apartment because of noisy neighbors and went to a town home.

Um, the town home, when we moved in there, it was not great.

And we sent several emails to the leasing office about the issues that we were having.

And, you know, mold and spiders everywhere and synopedes and all these things happening in there.

Um, we told them that we are not happy with the town home.

And they said they'll fix things.

Months went by.

They want fixing anything.

So we decided to just break our lease because I have legal shield through my job.

And I reached out to an attorney through there.

And they said, well, they failed to provide.

We're living conditions.

I have pictures of everything.

Mm-hmm.

And you don't owe anything.

So you can break your lease and you'll be fine.

Oh, boy.

That was not good advice.

Oh, yeah, you got what you paid for with that lawyer.

Did you send them?

Did you send them?

Did you send, I mean, did you get any, did you send them anything in writing?

Did you do any, did you do your due diligence other than just making a phone call?

Oh, no.

So we definitely sent pictures.

You mean to the leasing office with the legal shield?

Oh, both.

Did you send them, did you let them know that you were seeking legal counsel on behalf?

Like, did you go through the due diligence of making sure that they understand what's going on?

I, yeah.

So I called the leasing office.

My husband went up there because he weren't responding to my emails.

My husband went up there.

Up there, he talked to them.

They said, okay, we'll take care of things.

A couple months went by.

Nothing was happening.

The most they did was change the tray in the dishwasher.

Okay.

So stop.

Let's just stop.

I mean, it's.

You just moved out when you got mad because you called legal shield and they said, you could.

Yeah.

Well, we weren't, we weren't planning to break our lease because we did that before to move to where we are now.

And that was not fun.

So we said, we're not going to break a lease on this.

We get some kind of advice that we can.

So after we called the head office, the property management company or whoever, we talked to the district manager.

They said, okay, definitely send us emails and everything.

All the pictures that you've been reaching out to them about and everything.

Did that no response?

All again, let the voice message not getting in your response.

So the legal shield attorney said, they sent them a letter to the leasing office and the property management company and saying that they fail to provide whatever to the living conditions for us and our child.

So we don't owe them anything.

So because of that, we decided to just break our lease because they weren't fixing anything.

We asked them multiple times.

Are you going to.

Well, this is on legal shield.

Legal shield needs to defend you for free.

You're going to get sued.

I promise you.

I promise you 100% this line of words coming after you.

You don't have the option of just walking away because I got some bugs.

Even if you send them pictures and even if they don't answer, even if they're jerks, even if they have horrible service.

It's not how it works.

I mean, so now legal shields bit this off if they need to pick it up and close the deal.

And they're not going to be able to.

This is going to be horrible for you.

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The End

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jay Blaschall.

Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host, Diane, is in Chicago.

Hey, Diane, how are you?

Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, yeah, same here.

Well, thank you for taking my call.

I currently have quite a bit of money that banks, I feel, and I'm thinking about my retirement.

And I'd like to know how best I should invest in order to make it last through retirement.

How much is it?

I, so I have 600,000 in the bank.

Wow.

And that, that's free.

I have two, just 250,000 in retirement.

Which I don't know what to do with because it's been with the payroll service.

We don't know our own business.

It's just been sitting there.

I don't know what to do with it.

I know nothing about it.

I wasn't actively involved in our business.

I stayed home and took care of our kids, raised them.

And I decided to go into my own franchise.

And so I know that it will be using some of that money for the franchise.

But I don't know that it's sitting in a bank is the best place for it.

How old are you?

57.

Okay. And you said you were not involved in the business.

And now you're opening a franchise with the business money.

Yes.

Okay.

So your husband was running the business?

Yes.

Where is he?

He's, he's at home.

He is supporting me in my business.

He's hoping at some point he'll be able to branch out and do something on his own.

But everything's been in my name.

The bank accounts, the houses, the business.

We sold the business last year.

And that where the 600 grand came from?

Yeah.

We sold it for 1.2 million.

But we were given a large lump sum.

And we paid off some unexpected unknown debts.

Okay.

Unknown.

You're being cryptic.

I didn't know about it.

You're going to tell us what's going on because you're not.

My husband has a gambling debt.

Oh.

I don't know what he, he gets, he gets a set amount every month that comes in that he collects.

And he uses that for extracurricular activities.

How much?

You don't know how much he's.

Oh, no, I know how much he gets.

He gets $3,600 a month and that's his play money.

And so he basically got a gambling problem that ran you guys deeply in debt.

And that's why everything's in your name.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

That makes sense.

So who's supplying the $3,600 a month for him to continue gambling?

We have $2,500 coming in from our rental.

That person bought the business and has the option to buy at the end of the year for $350,000 if he exercises that right.

And then he also gets Social Security, $1,100 a month.

Okay.

So at this point, you're okay with losing $40,000 a year with your husband.

No, I'm not, but I have no control of that.

What's the, what's the plan moving forward?

Does he know that you have a lot of control?

You've got everything in your name.

Right.

Everything's in my name.

He knows that I'm opening up this franchise, which will be approximately $125,000 to open the franchise.

That's my own.

He's just kind of like, even letting me leave the money in the bank.

But I feel like it's not getting the best returns.

So I'm looking for ways that I can invest in.

Yeah.

I mean, we could tell you to get with a smart investor pro and invest that money.

But I really don't feel like that's the issue of the conversation.

Yeah, there's a lot.

There's so much going.

Here's the problem.

It's hard to fill up a hole while somebody's digging out the bottom.

Right.

That's kind of what we're hearing here.

But you feel like you've got him, his gambling addiction under control.

And I question that because I've seen so many, well, I mean, but, but.

And so as long as you keep this stuff in your name, I guess you have the option of divorce at some point.

If he runs up, you know, let's say he runs up a million dollar gambling debt and you don't want to pay it with the money that's in your name, then you've only got one option at that point.

So anyway, that's what you're facing.

So yeah, I would take the 600,000 and I'd take the 250,000 and I would sit down with a smart investor pro and begin to invest it in good mutual funds.

If it averages 10% or more, it will double every seven years.

So you basically got a million dollars and seven years at 64 years old.

You'd have two million dollars and seven more years at 71 years old.

You'd have four million dollars.

So you're going to be fine if you do that and you don't piss it away with this franchise.

If this franchise doesn't go belly up on you.

And so, and it sounds like you've never run a business before.

He ran the business before and now you're buying a franchise.

So that's a little concerning.

Is the franchise in the same like field of expertise or something totally different?

No, it's something that I'm passionate about, something that is for me not for him.

I don't expect his involvement in it, but I'm very confident and very passionate about this.

And I'm expecting for it to be very successful.

And I have a family that is willing to stand behind me and support me.

So that's not even a question whether or not that's going to be successful.

I'm confident that it will be.

I got to tell you that that's not true in the small business world.

So there is risk that you're not perceiving, apparently.

So, yeah, you're going to buy it and you're going to do it.

But I want to insulate you from you and this bad decision, if it's a bad decision.

And I want to insulate you from him and his continuous bad decisions

with $600 or more $1,000 going over in a regular low-risk investment in comparison

to gambling and in comparison of franchise purchasing.

And so let's put some money over there.

So if these other two things go sideways and this plan doesn't work,

then you've at least got that money working for you.

So yeah, you need to sit down and do that.

And you need to put a real limit on the amount of dollars

you're going to pour into the franchise before it starts giving you money back

instead of you putting money into it.

Absolutely.

And because if you don't with the level of unrealistic optimism that you're coming out this with

and you're positive, how positive you are about it, then you're going to end up going 300 grand

in the hole on this thing.

And if you want to put 125 in it and you believe in it, go do it.

Go live your dream.

I ain't got a problem with that.

What I've got a problem with is these absolute statements

and I've been in business my whole life.

And there is no absolute 100%.

People are behind me.

I feel positive.

It's an area I'm passionate about.

None of that may matter.

You may still lose all that money.

So don't go into this 300 grand with all your positivity.

If you want to put 125 in it, do it.

And then I'd put the rest of it over and with a smart investor pro and some good mutual funds

and to where it's protected from this business risk and the gambling risk

and separate these things.

Yeah, I'm just going to call it like I heard it.

It almost sounded like this business for you with some sort of retaliatory thing against him

to kind of prove that you're doing your thing over here.

And I would just say draw a line in the sand and set some boundaries about how long

you're going to endure this into what point before you go and do the things that you need to do

and make that separation so that he can get the help that he needs

because allowing this to persist doesn't feel like the answer.

It feels like it's breeding resentment from you.

Oh, for sure.

I kind of should.

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All right. Today's question comes from Steve in West Virginia.

He says, I'm 66 years old and have been retired for five years.

I have 500,000 in retirement funds, but I have two debts.

40,000 in credit card debt and 150,000 on my mortgage.

I have social security and pension income of 6,000 per month.

Should I pay off my debt to reduce my withdrawal each month from my 401k?

I wish I had a little bit more information, but off the top I would say yes,

because to have your mortgage paid for it, that's money that you're not going to have to take a draw on.

And my guess, I don't know what your expenses are every month,

but my guess is you probably are living okay on the $6,000 per month if you don't have a single dead in the world.

Now make sure you cut up a stupid credit card to get on a budget so you don't spend more than you make again.

Yeah, that's really what you need to do.

I know credit card debt is not the problem. It's the symptom of you overspending.

Yeah, and if it's old debt, you're like, I'm not on that lifestyle anymore.

I just still have it laying around, absolutely paid off.

But if it's current debt, then Dave is absolutely right about that.

Mike's in Virginia Beach. Hey, Mike, how are you?

Good. How are you guys doing?

How long do we deserve? What's up?

My wife and her siblings inherited some money from their dad when he passed away several years back.

And one of the siblings of the executive and they said they're not going to tell one of the other siblings about it

because they don't feel that they're financially responsible and they're just going to hold the money back from them.

Oh.

And I say that's not any, they're called.

You're exactly right.

Okay. Well, I'm smarter than I look sometimes.

The executor, the literal, the reason they called an executor is they're to execute.

Right.

They're execute the, what the will said.

It didn't, it didn't say you're a trust officer and you get to decide what's best.

It said you execute what the will says. It's your only option.

Even if you don't like it, even if you don't agree with it.

You have one option when you're the executor and that's to execute what the will says.

Otherwise, the people on the other side of it are going to sue your butt and they're going to win

because you violated your fiduciary responsibility.

What's your wife think?

She agrees with me.

Okay.

You guys got your part, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

I would tell the executor that they're being stupid and they're going to get sued.

Well, I kind of did that.

Yeah. Well, then you've done your job and leave it alone.

It's not your problem anymore.

How much is it?

Yeah.

You know, I think it's like $8 or $10,000 each.

Oh, it's not enough to mess with.

But here's the thing.

The person finds out that they were not given the money they're supposed to be given.

The person that is the executor is in deep kimchi legally.

Well, that's, that's what I've kind of figured.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure, but there's nothing you can do about it.

I mean, it's just, these are people doing whatever they want to do and that's what people do all the time.

That's the problem.

When you pick the executor of your will, folks, you need to pick someone who's going to have the integrity to execute your will.

Yeah.

What is it you will to happen?

That's right.

That's what that means.

They need to be Switzerland.

Yeah.

Did you say deep kimchi?

I just did.

Okay.

Just check it.

Just make sure things come up in the Rolex.

Nora is in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Hi, Nora.

What's up?

Hi, David and Jade.

It's excited to talk to you today.

I have an exciting question for you.

I want to know, should we buy a new car with cash or half our house?

Ooh, my favorite type of question.

Tell us more.

Okay.

So we are in baby steps 4, 5 and 6.

We've been on the Ramsey plan for a solid like seven years.

We have $60,000 safe for the vehicle in a high yield savings account.

But then when we are doing our annual budget meeting, we're also looking at our brokerage account,

which is sitting at $35,000.

Okay.

Our mortgage is approximately $83,000 left.

Okay.

So if we liquidate that brokerage account, we could pay off the home and be done.

And still have an emergency fund?

Yeah.

We do have $10,000 set aside for an emergency fund.

It's a little small.

Yeah.

That's a bit small.

Is that what it would be if the house were gone?

Yeah.

Well, we use like the brokerage account as like a backup emergency fund.

Yeah.

You don't have that anymore in the scenario.

We have $10,000 in our bank account.

I know.

I know.

But if you use the brokerage account and you use the $60,000 from the car and you pay off the house,

you're down to $10,000, which isn't much.

Well, we want to spend approximately $50,000 on a car.

No.

Are you listening?

No, no.

He's saying if you pay the house off of that.

If you pay the house off, you got nothing but 10 grand left.

Right?

Well, we also have $10,000 savings account that is just the side emergency fund.

Oh, so you have $20,000.

So we would have, yeah, we would have $20,000 if the house is paid off.

Okay.

That's what I didn't understand.

Are you, are you sure, net worth over a million dollars?

It is, sir.

And this is a brand new car.

New to us.

Oh, it's not a brand new car.

It might be a year old.

Okay.

It's not a brand new car.

It either is or it didn't.

Okay.

All right.

Now, so.

Wow.

I mean, how long would it take you?

You could do either.

I don't think there's a wrong answer here.

How long would it take you if you were to pay off the house?

How quickly could you save back up $60,000 and buy the car you want?

We think by probably August.

Oh, correct.

Man, I got to be honest.

There's not a wrong answer.

I probably paid the house off.

Yeah, there's a wrong answer.

Don't buy the car.

Pay the house off and then go buy the car.

You would?

I would never buy that car.

I mean, I wouldn't buy the car.

I wouldn't buy the car.

I wouldn't pay the house off.

That's what I'm just saying.

Do you think she'd be getting it wrong?

Yeah.

Because in eight months, you can go get the car anyway.

That's what I said.

So get the house paid off.

Just say it.

What are your priorities here?

Your priorities are get the house paid off, not buy a stupid car.

Stupid cars you can get.

I got a stupid car today.

I don't mind getting a stupid car.

What is it?

Fine, but they go down.

I don't do the same thing.

I don't do the same thing.

Yeah.

But do you think that lightning would strike her down?

No.

Had she done the other way?

I didn't do the strike you down on anything on this show hardly.

But no, I'm definitely paying the house off 100%.

Today.

I paid off today.

And then I'd save like crazy and go buy the car that you want.

And you might even get a nicer car.

Parking it in the driveway of a paid for house.

Hello.

No question that that's the order of things out of go down.

Definitely, definitely, definitely, definitely.

So here's the thing.

And I'm a car guy.

I've got only a bunch of different vehicles here and there.

And they all go down in value.

Yeah.

So you're, you know, you can't put appreciating assets in the same

sentence with the largest depreciating asset that we buy.

Even if you've got to hide that worth.

But what sent you over the edge was the fact that they owed so little on the mortgage.

Yeah, it's simple.

Yeah.

I mean, if she owe 500,000 on the mortgage, then we have a different discussion.

Yeah.

Or even 100.

Well, see, my tipping point probably would have been like 250.

Yeah.

I mean, I just, the point is that this is very doable very quickly.

And so it doesn't matter.

So do it the right way.

Yes.

And let your actions reflect that you've got an understanding of how these assets work.

Right.

Because five years from today, that $50,000 car is worth 15.

Yes.

And that's going to be painful.

Hopefully you keep it for a very long time.

Five years from today, that house sort of doubled twice.

Yes.

You know, so I mean, there's no question where I'm going with this.

And it doesn't mean you never buy a car.

I'll buy one today.

Or literally.

You bought a car today?

Part of the car today.

Yeah.

What'd you get?

I got the new Bronco Raptor.

Look at you.

So I just wanted one.

But I'm not mad about cars.

That's not the point.

That's not the point.

The point is they go down in value and they need to be a minor part of your overall life.

Yes.

Yes.

Please.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

I love entrepreneurs, don't forget guys, I started my company on a car table myself.

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your customers.

And when you're the one signing the paycheck, you can't afford to fly blind.

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In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage, Nathan and Megan are with us.

Hey guys, how are you?

How are you?

Doing great.

Doing well.

Great to be here.

Good to have you.

Where do y'all live?

We live in Woodstock, Georgia.

Oh yeah, just down the road.

Welcome to Nashville.

Thank you.

Good to have you guys.

And how much debt have you paid off?

We paid off $155,000 in just under five years.

Good for you.

And your range of income during that time?

Starting income was $100,000 and ending income was $145,000.

Very cool.

What do y'all do for a living?

So I work in technology.

I manage a whole tech team in the convenience industry.

Oh yeah.

And I worked part-time in a credit department at a staffing company during that time.

Okay.

What kind of debt was it?

It was our mortgage.

Very cool.

Look at it, weird people.

I know.

Very cool.

How much is this house worth?

About $450,000.

Good for you guys.

That's awesome.

And you've been putting money in your retirement all along, so it stretches in that.

About $300,000.

Very good.

Very good.

Almost millionaires now.

That's right.

Look at you guys.

Wow.

And how old are you two?

I'm 28.

And I'm 29.

So you got to start this in your early 20s.

Yes.

Our goal was to get it paid off before Nathan turned 30 in March.

And you did it, too.

Paid it off on Christmas Day.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's awesome.

That was awesome.

Tell us the story.

How do you guys be smart enough to do this in 22 years old?

Well, honestly, he listened to you since he was 12 years old.

So I grew up and we didn't have TV.

So as a teenager, I couldn't go to bed early.

So I turned on my clock radio today, Ramsey.

And I didn't quite get everything at the time of what you were saying.

But I started picking it up.

And then I mean, it really just comes from my parents instilling.

If you're going to accomplish anything, you've got to work for it.

So then following your steps along the way,

we did financial peace university right after we were married.

And just I mean, worked as a team together.

Wow.

Very cool.

Yep.

So your mom and dad were doing their stuff.

And then you're hearing the stuff on talk radio back in the day.

Yes.

Yeah.

And there was really just instilling if you want anything in life,

you have to work for it.

So that was when my parents gave me.

And then you gave me the tools to us, the tools to work together.

And I accomplished this.

Yeah.

We also bought a fixer upper.

That needed a lot of equity or a lot of sweat equity.

Oh my gosh.

I see the future.

So that's what it used to look like.

And we worked really hard on it.

And it's in Woodstock, which is where we wanted to grow up.

One of the kids to grow up.

And I don't even look like the shame.

Yeah.

So that's where we live.

Yeah, that was the dream.

Just put in our hard work into it.

Wow.

And just expecting things to come to us and working for what we wanted.

Looks like it started with a change shop.

Yeah.

That's right.

Wow.

And lots of poison ivy.

Lots.

Yeah.

So the moment you bought it, you knew you were going to pay it off fast, like you already.

Yes.

That was the whole idea.

Yes.

Definitely.

We wanted to attack it, you know.

So Megan, I mean, when you're dating a guy that at 12 years old is listening to a financial

show on talk radio before it goes to bed, you might be dating a nerd.

I know.

I learned this a lot from him.

And then he got me on to you too.

And I truly, he is a little bit of a nerd.

So it sounds like he was an attractive nerd.

He was.

Tall dark and handsome.

I was very, you know, it didn't take much financial, yes.

So, and I truly, I mean, once I learned it to, once we did financial piece, I was all

in as well.

We were just trying to do it together.

And I think that's one of the keys to just doing it together.

Well, you guys throw those pictures up again on YouTube in case someone is 23 years old

and thinks it's impossible to buy a house.

You can buy that house.

Looks like a jungle.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the, yeah.

And you said it's worth 400 now.

450 now.

Yeah, neighborhood.

Woodstock, sweet.

Oh, great area.

Dave always says it's important to dream together.

So I was actually, took us two years to convince this lady was vacant to sell us the home.

And we would drive by and she would get annoyed at me and I go, that's our home, see

our home.

And we didn't even have another contract yet, but we dream and we stare at it and, you

know, following the principles of going, hey, we wanted it to, we wanted a 15 year mortgage

not more than 20% of our income pay.

How did you get her to, to sell it?

Uh, well, honestly, I was, I was her friend for two years.

She didn't know anyone else and I, I honestly didn't think we were going to get it most

of the time, but I said, I just told her, if, whenever she wants to sell, she'll think

of us first.

And one day after two years, she said, all right, I'm ready to sell.

Yeah, we wrote her letters, drove to her house at a different residence.

She was, it was vacant.

Yeah, it was vacant.

It looked like it.

Yeah.

And we drove there and got her phone number and they talked on the phone every month until

she's decided to say, till she relented it.

We're ready.

Yeah.

Wow.

I love this guy.

This is incredible.

And of course, you cash flowed all the, all the upgrades you did inside in the outside.

We did, we went down to the studs and it was, you know, I had some family help, but it

was all us just working through it.

We did gas electrical plumbing.

We did the septic system and we did everything.

So you pay, I just need a, the America to hear this, you, they cash flowed all of that

and paid off.

That's right.

55 years.

Right.

Yeah.

So you 26 year olds that are whining.

I can't buy a house right now.

You're right around the world.

Oh, kiss my butt.

They got right here.

Hold their beer.

Yeah.

Look at this.

It's unbelievable.

Yeah, tell them what they need to know because there's a lot of naysayers out there.

Tell them what they need to know.

Absolutely.

Dave, you preach it.

I actually saw the bumper sticker over there and I love it.

And it was prey like everything depends on God and work like everything depends on

you.

And that was us going into this.

I tell everyone that a list, I'm a knowing, I'll get passionate about it, but I'm, but you're

the problem.

You're the solution.

Work hard.

There is, I can't stand anyone that says anything different, but there's more opportunity

in America than there has ever been in country for all of history.

So work for it.

It's easy to look at all the obstacles and say, hey, I can't do this, but roll up your sleeves

and get to work.

Work is underestimated and working together as a team.

This has just helped us in our marriage and, you know, now we have a home for our kids

and we're just going to continue bailing the dream.

You guys dropped.

You can pull that headset off and slam it on the floor.

No, don't do that.

Don't do that.

It looks expensive.

Yes.

I say to like just, you know, eat at home and practical things like being content with

what you have, not comparing yourself to the people around you and also just work inside

hustles.

It's worked during this whole process.

I would stay at home, but also trying to help provide some income during that time.

And Nathan worked really hard at his job just to work his way up, but also worked side hustles.

So do the things that are required to get to that point, but also just enjoy your life

and be content with what you have already.

Well, I mean, you're not even 30 years old.

You have a paid four half million dollar house.

You've got your well on your way to being millionaires within the next probably 36 months

or so.

You know, the markets are moving near this happening.

You guys are in really, really good shape.

Congratulations.

I'm very proud of you.

I know your parents are proud of you.

Thank you.

Your children, your heroes, you have changed your family tree.

So your secret is work at it and stick together.

Yeah.

And just don't take no for an answer.

Yeah.

If someone tells you no, just figure another way to do it.

Yeah.

There's always another way.

Another way to get it done.

Wow.

That's amazing.

I have one more question.

When you went to buy this house, how did you set your expectations?

Because a lot of people would have seen that before you renovated it and said, that's

a shack.

I'm not going to spend my money on that.

How did you know to do that?

Well, great question.

I mean, my whole life, it's been, what do people, we're so wealthy as a country, people

throw away great things that we can work hard and make beautiful.

So going into it, it was horrible looking on the inside, but we were just looking and

we had talked about it.

What are the bones?

What can't we change?

Let's make sure that's good.

We can work hard on everything else and change that.

Change some paint colors.

Change the flooring.

Yeah, that's right.

Just kind of see past that stuff on the outside and just look at the beauty on the inside

and there were no mold issues, no, like flooring, foundation issues, like we were very blessed

God, blessed us with this home too.

Like we were put in all the right situations where we were like, this is not just coincidental.

Right.

So good guys.

Well, well done.

All right, bring the kiddos up, get their names and ages.

Oh boy, are they cute?

They are.

Cute, cute, cute.

Oh, there's more of them than I thought.

Yes.

They just keep coming.

Yes.

We paid it off when he was 10 days old.

Oh.

What a guy.

Yes.

Baby James.

All right.

So what's his name?

This is James.

He's two months now.

All right.

And the girls.

This is Emmy.

She's five.

And then Lily is two.

All right.

Yes.

But someday you'll know they're the ones that change the family tree.

Way to go.

All right.

Nathan and Megan count it down.

Right.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

155,000 paid off.

And five years making 140.

Almost baby steps millionaires already at 30 years old.

Let's hear it.

Three, two, one.

Way to go.

Way to go.

Yeah.

Woo.

Woo.

Woo.

Woo.

Woo.

Wow.

I love it.

Wow.

Kids are cute.

They are.

I love it.

That's amazing, Dave.

Wow.

Amazing.

Oh, it can't be done.

We're all going to die.

Not, no, not if you're Nathan and Megan.

They got it figured out, baby.

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In the MSID 1591, in the MS Consumer Access.org Ego Housing Lender.

Mark is in Mobile, Alabama.

Hey, Mark, how are you?

Doing good. How about you, Mr. Ramsey?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I work offshore and I make about $90,000 a year.

And I'm going 20 days out of the month and I'm home for 10.

And my wife would let me home and I'd also like to be home too.

Because later we'd also like to maybe start having kids and

start having the family with our own baby step two.

And just wondering what y'all would think about that.

If I need to stay on the boat to get baby step two paid off,

or would it still be okay to come home?

I mean, gosh, that's a long time to be home.

What's it mean when you how long you going to be?

No, I mean, how much debt do you have?

Do you know how quickly you get paid off?

So we had $23,000 in consumer debt.

Just out of our house, I bring home $58,000.

Our bills is $36,000 roughly.

And then we had $21,000 left over that we could put towards debt.

Okay, so you'd be debt free in like 10 months, except your house.

Okay, so, and you make 90 and you're only coming home with 5,800.

There's something wrong with that. Where's all that money going?

That's a lot of.

90, 90 taxes.

And I do have insurances through work and also have the life insurance policy

through work that took out a little bit extra.

I'm in the process of getting rid of that life insurance policy

and go under term life.

Good, okay, and that'll cut that'll increase your take on pay as well.

What about your wife?

What's she doing?

She is not doing anything right now.

She is in the process of going to the post office.

So about March or April, she will be working at the post office.

And what will that bring monthly and yearly?

Roughly $3,000 to $3,500 a month.

Okay, so you're going to cut your pay by 30 or 40,000.

And she's going to increase hers by 30 or 40,000.

By you coming off the boat, is that right?

Yes, sir.

You got a job lined up if you did that?

I don't have a job lined up right now.

I had been looking at different jobs.

I just wanted to get some of the thing, you know,

what they would do if they were finished paying that offer.

I mean, if you can line something up that's in line

with when she starts working, I would do that in two seconds.

Yeah, your household is going to have the same money coming in, agreed?

Yes, sir.

Okay, I mean, you're going to get something that's going to,

I got to pay as much as a boat, but you're going to get something.

I mean, you need to go search out the job market and figure out what you can land.

You might land something almost as much as you're getting paid off shore.

I don't think so, but you might.

Yes, sir. Well, the job I'm looking at now, it starts out at 40,000 a year.

And then within two years, you can be bumped up to 70 to 80,000.

Doing what? So there is Margaret Benner Stillman worker in the bill.

Okay, all right. Well, here's the thing.

We're not really cutting your income from 90 to 40.

We're really your household income is going to be the same because she's going to go to work

and make up the difference. Is that a correct statement?

Yes, sir.

Yeah, based on that, I'm coming home.

Yes, sir.

And take the steel mill job and let's get started because you're going to be out of debt

in the same time as if she didn't work and you stayed on the boat.

See?

Yes, sir.

You still you still ought to be able to get out of debt in eight or ten months.

And not eat, no eating out. Both of you take extra jobs, do everything you can.

And you're still going to be home more doing that than you would have been on the on the rig

and off shore. And yeah, I think I am coming home based on all of this.

But if the only part of the equation was I'm just simply going to cut my income in half.

Then I might stay ten more months and lock it out.

Yeah, I think I'm going for the ten months, yeah.

I might stay another six months and lock it out, whatever.

But you know, the fact that she's going to be making up some of the difference,

you're taking a job that's going to escalate an income over the next couple of years, a lot.

And you can pick up extra jobs and you can get on the every dollar budget and tighten up.

That's right.

I put all of that in there. Yeah, I'd want to come home.

I don't, I mean, I've traveled a lot with what I do over the years.

But I've never done, I mean, I'm never.

Very seldom have I done one month or 20-day stretches.

Most of the time, it's a five-day thing or a two-day thing or something like that.

I'm out and back and that's not nearly as strange.

This is being gone from the family like an over-the-road truck driver or military being deployed

or working off shore like this. That's right.

And so, but you know, you can make some money and you know, when the Iraqi war, for instance,

was wrapping up, there was a lot of civilian positions where people could go over there

for six months or eight months and make two or three hundred grand doing stuff.

And people were doing that for a short period of time to, you know, to leap forward.

And that, I might be willing to do something like that if I was paying a price to win.

Sure. But I got to see the end to it.

And so, yeah, I think I would do that. I think I would do that.

Yeah, she really is the key to this equation.

Yeah. Her working is the key to all of this.

Exactly. Exactly.

And so, if you guys start having kids, she doesn't get to quit unless your income has come up.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, you're going to have to, you're going to manage that and keep all that stuff tied in there together.

Sarah's with us in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

Good. Thanks, Dave and Jade for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

I recently became guardian of my dad. He has dementia.

Sorry. And we have moved him into a senior apartment.

My question is about his finances. I'm not sure what to do with everything that he has,

trying to honor what he has done and saved and worked for.

But also what to do moving forward with all of his finances.

We're going to sell his house.

I'm not sure what to do with those funds.

Well, we would just manage it for his good, agreed.

Yes.

You know, does he have bills that need to be paid?

Yes.

How much debt does he have?

No debt.

Oh, that's good.

So, the only bills are this assisted living situation.

Yeah, it's not a problem of not enough money.

I'm not sure what to do with all of his money.

Okay.

What will happen when you sell the house, how much will you have?

About 400,000.

And how much do you have now in other accounts?

You've got $355,000 in an IRA, $369,000 in a Roth, $177,000 in a non-retirement.

Those are all three with the same financial institution.

And then in a bank, he's got $315,000.

No, I should move some of that, but I don't know what to do with it.

So he's got like, he's got like a million and a half dollars.

So he's in a really good shape.

Way to go, Dad.

Yes.

Good.

And you have full power of attorney.

Guardian ship, which is above power of attorney.

But I mean, you've got the ability to do with this as you will for his benefit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Correct.

So I would get on RamseySolutions.com and click on Smart Vestor Pro

and sit and talk to one of the Smart Vestor Pro financial advisors that we have

endorsed.

They don't work for us, but they have the heart of a teacher and say, I've got this,

I've got this million and a half dollars.

I want to put it in a place that will care for him and that it will grow without much risk.

Okay.

And so I think you can pick out a series of low risk,

a lot of volatile mutual funds, something like some S&P type stuff.

And let the money sit there and grow and the growth will easily care for him.

And you can put it in a situation where it's very easy to manage and without taking a big

huge boatload of risk and just sit there and talk to them and let their job is to teach you

how to make these decisions on behalf of your dad.

Is it smarter to separate some of those funds and put them in two different

financial places or better to keep it all from you?

I would have it in one.

Okay.

Yeah. And just because and but you're making the decision of where it goes.

So you could have it in several different mutual funds with one financial advisor.

Okay.

But you don't need two advisors.

That's you're going to get you're going to get crossed up.

And you know, you need to get someone, but you're not doing what they say to do.

They are teaching you and they do what you say to do.

Okay.

That's how we're going to approach this.

It's your job and they're there to help you do your job.

We're not we're not looking for a babysitter and nanny.

This is not a boarding school for money.

You're still the parent.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the fair winds credit union studios.

Jade Washer Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Tina is with us in Minneapolis.

Hi, Tina. How are you?

I'm good. How are you better than I deserve?

What's up?

Well, I kind of got myself in the tickle.

I'm going to try and get through it.

But it's it's so fresh.

It's really hard.

My husband passed away about four years ago.

He's been nursing home for about four years before that.

That ate up any money that we had saved.

It was like $10,000 a month to have him there.

And then he was on what's called Medicaid in Iowa.

And now they're trying to see me for $200,000 for his nursing home care.

They want reimbursed.

So the only thing I have that they aren't that's just how.

Is it because they didn't think you qualified?

It turned out you didn't qualify.

Notice it's part of how to Medicaid.

It's a state insurance and they want their money back.

They don't tell you that when you sign up for it.

No, that's not how Medicaid works, honey.

You're confused.

Yeah, that's what the state has been talking about.

Medicaid is not, Medicaid is administered by the state.

It's a federal program and it's welfare for poor people.

And if you go to a nursing home when you qualify based on your assets and your income,

Medicaid pays for it.

And they don't get the money and they don't get the money back.

Yeah, well, they keep sending a bill saying, I owe $200,000.

So why do they think you owe $200,000?

For his nursing home care.

No, honey.

If he qualified for Medicaid, he doesn't owe the $200,000.

They're wanting it back because they think he didn't qualify.

They think you have too much in income or assets.

Well, he was on disability and I was on disability in school.

Then you need to get an attorney to look at this and negotiate with Medicaid

because Medicaid's gotten some bad information.

It sounds like, but you don't automatically.

They don't just automatically sue everybody that goes into nursing home and Medicaid.

That's not how it works.

It was about a month after he passed away.

I got this bill.

Yeah, so you need to talk to an attorney about that.

Now, what's the other thing that we can help you with?

Well, I sold the house because I just wasn't going to let them take that away from me

because, you know, when I, what they said is they can't come after me until I'm gone

and passed away and they were going to take whatever I owned as payment

and the house was too much for me anyway, I'm on the 60.

So I've sold it and I got, you know, it paid for.

So the money was mine and I put it away in a trust account

and I had my daughter as trustee.

She trusted her completely.

She never did anything wrong with it.

But unfortunately, when people realized I had the money,

then all of the handouts came.

Can you help me?

Can you help me?

Can you help me?

And unfortunately, I have a given heart.

And so I helped them all expecting to get paid back.

They all promised to get it paid back.

And now I'll get it excuses to get it paid back when I'm financially

struggling.

So you gave away how much money?

So what are you living on now?

You're living on disability now?

On the infrastructure.

Yeah, disability, what's the nature of your disability?

I have anxiety and panic attacks.

So, like, stroke level panic attacks.

We look like I'm having a heart attack.

Yeah, are you being treated for all of that?

Yeah, I just can't work.

I even went back to school to do building coding.

I've been medical for 20 plus years.

And some of the else paid for me to go back to school.

So I'm taking my advantage.

So I can try to get a job working from home.

But unfortunately, the catch 22 is they want you to have

three years experience before they hire you to work with them.

Yeah, so what are you able to live on your disability income?

Well, I was until, I mean, I got found the cheaper apartment.

I was in the apartment that was like,