Tommy Lloyd - UNC Candidate Closer Look | Inside Carolina Basketball Analysis

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Tommy Lloyd is one of the fastest risers in college basketball.

Elite regular season success, international recruiting routes, and a modern offensive system.

The question is whether that translates to March and whether it fits at a place like North Carolina.

I'm Joey Powell for Inside Carolina.

This is a special episode, special podcast.

We're diving into the coaching candidates for UNC basketball job.

What do you say we get into it?

All right, we're happy you're here. I'm Joey Powell.

As mentioned, with me tonight, Rob Harrington and Sean Moran.

I don't know if I've ever done a show with just you two guys.

So we'll see how this goes. Going on the table, see how it plays.

But as everyone who's listening to this undoubtedly knows at this point, North Carolina is looking

for their next basketball coach to replace Hubert Davis.

And I want to allude that Tommy, Cheryl, Greg Barnes, or the usual hitters are the ones

that are absolutely driving this train, but we want to give you a little more color today

about the guys that are on the head coaching hotboard.

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come at a better time because we cover this better than anybody else does.

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So first things first guys, you know, talking about Tommy Lloyd, he's been an assistant

for 20 years under Mark Fu, which everybody knows a long time successful coach at Gonzaga.

He was actually the lead assistant for Fu when North Carolina beat Gonzaga in the national

championship in 2017.

Now he's the head coach at Arizona.

He's had some immediate success there, rebuilding kind of a choppy situation behind Sean

Miller.

He has had some amazing teams, including the one that he's coaching right now that only

has two losses on the season and is a one seed currently in the NCAA tournament.

It is the leap winning percentage.

Those are all things that sound like Carolina basketball to me.

I think some valid criticism about him thus far is just underperformance in the NCAA tournament

relative to seed.

So that's kind of the overview of the guy.

I think I'll throw to each of you first, Rob, you can open.

What's your gut reaction if I were to say to you Tommy Lloyd?

What's one or two sentences that come out at you when you think about it?

I think looking through the Carolina lens, the fact that Arizona is a dominant offensive

rebounding team is something that feels very much at home for a Tar Heal fan looking

back at course of the Roy Williams era.

And it's contrary to a lot of the more three point crazy analytics driven offenses.

So it is modern in terms of how they structure their offense.

But the net result is they're trying to beat you with power and length.

And I very much enjoy that.

So that's that for me is number one.

Number two is you have to look at the job he's done at Arizona, obviously a program that

has had great success dating to the Loot Olsen era up and down a little bit with Sean

Miller, as you said, kind of choppy.

And he has restored that program right on the level that they were during Loot Olsen's

prime.

As you mentioned, they do need to get over the top and the tournament, I think to truly

solidify it.

But when you take someone who's been an assistant coach that long, there's always a question

of whether this person will translate to head coach because it's such a comfortable seat

when you're at a program where the head coach is basically unfireable like Mark Fu has

been at Gonzaga.

And yet he picked it up straight away, very impressive performance and a style.

I think again, from the Carolina point of view, it would be enjoyable for a lot of the

fans.

Yeah, that double big rotation that he uses seems incredibly familiar.

If you're just watching Arizona for the first time in this in this tournament, and I do

want to point out he's somewhat young.

I think he's 51.

If you were curious about the vitals and more of the specifics about his career, I would

point everybody to Spencer Haskell's article that he posted on Thursday, the 26 about

Tommy Lloyd.

It's a great companion piece as you're watching this or listening to this.

Go check that out.

Sean, I'd ask you the same thing.

We'll get into his style in just a second.

But just your first reaction, if I were to mention to you, you know, rooting off a list

of coaches, Tommy Lloyd, what's your immediate knee jerk to that?

Knee jerk reaction.

Love it.

I don't want to copy Rob word for word, but being able to watch Gonzaga in person out on

the West Coast when he was an assistant, as well as then a few games when they're in

the Pac-12 out here in LA, you felt like you're watching almost a continuation of the Carolina

teams.

Rob mentioned offensive rebounding, you know, the bigs, but also the tempo that they have

played with.

This year has been slowed down a little bit, but they're still playing at a fast pace.

And really, also, it's the ball movement, which we've talked about.

We saw with the UNC as the one seed, we've seen, we saw it in spurts with this team this

past year, but that's something that you're always seeing is that decision-making ability

on the offensive end and the pressure that they're putting on the defense just from a decision-making

perspective.

So you're seeing a very beautiful brand of offensive basketball, but also on the defensive

end, which I think he probably doesn't get enough credit for.

They're very strong using their bigs in terms of protecting the rim, their 2.0 percentage,

their consistency defensively, and consistency across the board, I think, is something that

UNC fans were very accustomed to during the Roy Williams era outside of maybe a post-championship

year.

And I think that's been shown from the seeds that they've had in his five years, the really

one seed through the four seed, but to me, it's just the style of play that he does

bring, especially on the offensive end, the ball movement, the IQ, and taking a lot of

things that we're accustomed to seeing at Carolina, but having that both offensive and defensive

identity.

Yeah, I love that you mentioned ball movement, the things that I've made notes about

it.

It's pace and spacing offense, very heavy ball movement, skilled bigs, and that international

influence.

That's something I'd like to hear you speak to a little bit.

So I'd ask you this, Sean, is Tommy Lloyd's system to rely on rhythm to withstand a tournament

setting?

I mean, obviously that's the knock on him is the sweet 16 as of right now, and they're

probably playing the toughest four seed left in the tournament with the Arkansas game.

But I just think it's more the matchup.

I mean, you look at Houston was a dominant physical physical team.

There's upset to Princeton, which that one's probably the most concerning of the games.

But I think with the consistency, no different than UVA and Artoni Bennett, they had a lot

of, they had more failures in March, but their consistent performance was one that got them

over the hump.

And I think you would see that consistency from Lloyd.

He knows what type of players that he wants to bring in from a skill set.

I think what they have done this year, because they really rebuilt that team with Janen Bradley,

but you look at two freshmen plus Karchenkoff from Germany, who you and see looked at, as

well as a big man that didn't really do much last year.

So it's almost rebuilt the team on a fly, and I think you've seen that.

But to me, it's more the consistency that he's done.

I don't think it's, you know, I think the style of play over the long run is something

that will continue to put pressure on defenses and can be sustainable in the tournament

where it's a one and done setting.

I think just looking at this year, only two losses across the board is extremely impressive,

just especially in the big 12.

So I'm less concerned over that point, it is an obvious point, especially when comparing

to Hebert Davis, who did get to a championship game, but I think the consistency that he's

had has been something that would carry over and in the long run would work itself out

from a tournament point of view.

Rob pushing a little further on that international recruiting pipeline that Tommy Lloyd has not

only been very, very strong at when he was at Gonzaga, but he's carried that, as Sean

said, to Arizona.

And so I would ask you from a roster and culture standpoint, thinking about, you know,

that international recruiting, high skill players and physicality, there's less emphasis

from him on a grinded out identity.

Would Tommy Lloyd need to recruit differently at North Carolina than he has at Arizona?

Do you feel like there's those profiles and culture fits would be similar?

I think he would do just fine recruiting at Carolina without needing to make any substantial

tweaks.

Part of what is impressive about him, to me, is that he takes guys from other cultures

and they assimilate quickly.

Now we saw this year for Carolina where I thought Luca Bogavitz at times, just it took him

a long time to get comfortable and he never really got fully comfortable.

And of course that has to do with the player too, but I like the way that Lloyd is able

to get everyone on the same page.

I mean, let's face it, another close to home example.

He took Caleb Love after a horrible season in 2023.

In his first year with Tommy Lloyd, he becomes Pac-12 player of the year.

And that type of thing is what you look for.

Someone, this is a guy he doesn't really know.

He brings in Caleb Love and still love you watching me still played like Caleb Love, but

it was more integrated, certainly from the way that Love had played in 2023 for Carolina.

That was one of the first things that drew my attention to him because he and Hubert

were the same vintage when they when they took their head coaching jobs.

You know, the one concern I have is it's not so much the tournament stuff because it's

a single elimination thing.

Eventually they'll have to break through the room.

I mean, I'm old enough to remember when people say, well, Mike Shishewski can get to the

final four, but they'll never win one because they always lose in the final four or forty

forty four years ago.

That's the same thing.

It's hard to step away.

It just doesn't follow.

It just doesn't hold that way.

The one thing I would point out is that I wish they were a little bit more balanced in

terms of taking threes this year.

They're down in the three hundreds in terms of three point rate in terms of where they

rank nationally in division one.

I never liked any stat that drifts into the three hundreds that way.

It's sort of like the Hubert equivalent of that was not forcing turnovers.

The Roy version of that was toward the end was number of threes they would allow.

I think it's just too much of vulnerability.

So hopefully over time, if you were to get the Carolina job, it would be a little bit

more balanced.

Having said that, if I had to choose one or the other, I could sacrifice fewer threes

in order to have that power.

I really like that style.

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Yeah, I mean, if you think about, you know, Roy Williams' great teams, they didn't need

as many threes because they were getting so many extra possessions off of the offensive

class.

And that's something that was a huge deficiency for for Hubert Davis' team, especially this

past season.

In thinking about fit, I want to throw this out and kind of put it in the context of a

modern offensive innovator versus UNC's culture and fan expectation of balance and toughness.

Does North Carolina need right now innovation or reliability?

I'll ask you, Rob.

I don't know.

I'm not.

I think the fan base at this point would accept big winning.

I think if Tony Bennett came in and slowed them down to a crawl, that would test patients

because it's so antithetical to the way they've always played.

But I think if you saw a really sharp execution, then everyone would be cool with that.

If you saw someone by contrast, who was at the front on analytics or the defensive responses

that are now happening in the NBA, especially to offensive analytics, if he if he were at

the front on that, I think the fan base would be accepting of it too.

They just need to see success in part of what we talked about in the immediate aftermath

of Hubert's dismissal was lack of program identity.

And so you don't have that problem with Tommy Lorde because you know they're going to

play a certain way.

And I think whether that shows up as more innovation or more consistent, relentless execution,

if they're successful, I think it's okay.

I think Sean, one of the things that you see from Tommy Lorde's teams and Rob did a good

job of laying out there is some physicality and some strength.

North Carolina has been judged for a lack of physicality rightly or wrongly.

They've been labeled as a team that's not very physical and sometimes they've been referred

to as soft in the last few years.

How do you think Tommy Lorde team would translate towards the physicality that maybe North

Carolina has not been up to the task for over the last few seasons?

It's interesting because when I think of Arizona teams and Tommy Lorde's style, I think

more of the skillful, the pretty basketball and maybe not the toughness.

Then you look at this team and the opposing coaches you've seen quotes of saying they

just beat the heck out of you and by the end of the game and a part of that is from their

physicality where you have a freshman like co-oped or even Karchenkoff who's 220 and so

on.

But I think that's a nice subtlety of where you have this pleasing style of play but at

the same time nobody's calling his team soft or nor are they playing soft because they're

attacking the glass, they're protecting the rim, they're playing physical.

To me, I think it would definitely be an increase especially from a defensive perspective

you just look at where they've ranked, which I think for the most part has been better

where UNC has ranked historically.

You're not hearing the word soft or pretty basketball player, people are prone to throw out with

Carolina whether it's true or not but I do think it's a perfect blend of uptempo pleasing

to the eye basketball but there's a toughness rooted behind it especially on the defensive

defense event and offensive event by crashing the glass.

All right, well before we put a bow in this here, dive into who Tommy Lloyd is and what

his teams look like.

I'll give you each a parting shot before we get out of here.

Come on, last thoughts or if you want to put a summation on how you would view a Tommy

Lloyd potential coaching situation in North Carolina.

So I guess one thing would be that from an international perspective, I do look at him is

almost not the godfather but he was at the beginning of this movement and he had to be

at Gonzaga because up until the very end they weren't getting the five stars off the bat.

So he's been in that world for 15 plus years and it carried over to Arizona, there's always

been a strong Wasserman connection from who represents him to who he worked with at Gonzaga.

So there's already a strong pipeline that was carried over to Arizona because it goes

to Rob's point of being worked in.

I would imagine it wouldn't be as heavy from an international perspective at Carolina

where he able to get a little bit more from a five star perspective, which I think he

saw can work and what he alluded to.

But I do like the fact that he was in there from the beginning, he knows how to do it.

Outside of Illinois, everybody else has just been trying to get in and grab without really

understanding these players or systems, the styles, etc.

So that's to me as a huge plus in terms of what he does bring and then just summing it

all up.

For me, when the scoop came out and the tears came out, I was very excited to see his

name.

Even watching him his first year thought it was a perfect fit at Arizona, obviously he's

never been on the East Coast, so there's going to be some adjustment, but very excited

about what this could bring to you and see if you were to be the potential coach for the

season.

All right.

Well done Rob.

Same thing.

I mean, just quickly for me, I think he would be an A plus higher.

I think Tommy Lloyd would be the second best basketball higher of my lifetime.

There's no one in the Roy Williams category at the same stage, but he would be number

two, I think, by far.

And beyond that, I think because he's already winning at an elite level, I think people

could look forward to a probably uneven, but promising year one and a potentially elite

year two.

This isn't someone who needs to grow into the job.

He knows the pressure cooker, as he knows how to beat great opponents and how to put

a team out there that's consistently great.

So for me, this would be no brainer higher, I wouldn't need to talk to anyone else if

you wanted to come.

I wouldn't wait on anyone else.

I'd look under Joey Powell's mattress and find some extra coins, whatever it took to

bring him in.

So that for me, it's an easy call if they can get him.

I'm going to tell you, you're looking in there, my mattress, you're going to find nothing

but dust bunnies and dreams.

But I definitely appreciate the insight you guys have given both of you on Tommy Lloyd.

Again, just to refresh, check out Cade's article, I'm sorry, yeah, Cade or Spencer, I don't

know what I said earlier in the show.

So whichever one of you guys, forgive me if I butchered that, but make sure you guys check

out Spencer's article on IC, it'll give you a deep dive into who Tommy Lloyd is.

And again, he's got connections to Roy Williams, even if he's not coached under him because

of Roy's friendship and tightness with Mark Few.

But let's put a bow on this, I think at the end of the day, like these guys said, there's

a reason Tommy Lloyd is at the top of the wish list, elite offense, top five potential.

There is some potential inconsistency with with his teams in March and but I think you

take that.

And for all the reasons that Rob and Sean just laid out, we will have more of these ready

for you about some of the other top candidates in North Carolina is going to potentially be

looking into to replace you were Davis to lead UNC basketball because they got to get

this right.

We'll probably hear a lot of folks say that.

So we will be back very, very soon with another episode in these coaching candidate profiles.

I want to say thanks to Sean, thanks to Rob.

Make sure you guys check out Johnny T-shirt.

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Use the code on the message boards, get an extra 10% off your order.

Until next time, I'm Joey Powell for Inside Carolina.

Y'all make it a great week.

We've been the trusted experts since 1960 because nobody knows tires better than we do.

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Let's get you taking care of.

Spring starts at the Home Depot and we are bringing the heat to your backyard this season.

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