Trey Tucker On Why Young Men Are Being Forgotten

You did this, here we go.

You did the stitch where you're reacting to this man

trying to toughen his son up by kicking him in the ribs.

And I'm like, this son of a bitch is genius.

I thought you were going to get torched and like everybody's like,

book, book, book, book. I can relate to that because when I watched it, I said,

Sean, are you raising a strong young man? Like, I'm not going to kick mine in the rib cage.

Walk me through the journey of the book.

So many young guys have been coming to see me and they have no guides.

Guys in their 20s have been tossed aside.

That pisses me off. And so I thought, well, if they want a book,

I'm going to write something for a group that has been forgot.

Or worse, like, they've been told we don't really need you.

We look what's going on in the world right now.

All the shootings, all everything. And a lot of them points to like,

not having a present father figure. This is a big deal.

It's heartbreaking because most of the comments that come from women,

they're literally asking, please help.

How do I raise my son on my own?

And then how do I get him around father figures?

What up, everybody?

We are back with another episode of the Determined Society.

Before I introduce today's guests, I want to remind you,

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will give you insight on amazing episodes like our guests today.

My boy, Trey Tucker, listen, this guy I ran into him on Instagram.

He was doing these podcast ratings.

And he flashed the big shows across the screen.

And he raped them and tell them why he gave him that rating.

And I just instantly loved this man because that's a brave thing to do.

But what I learned about him is that his mind worked differently than everybody else's.

He rated shows based on the amount of value that he was getting or the value that was

presented to the audience and not what the internet wanted him to say.

So I truly appreciated him.

But I got again with me my boy, Trey and in listen, he is an amazing dude.

He is a therapist and just an awesome guy.

Even though he went to the University of Florida, I'm not going to hold it against him.

But you know, you guys are going to love this conversation today.

And he recently came out with a book.

Tough enough.

And I do have it in my hands.

I'm super blessed to have it.

It's about honing your habits, cultivate purpose and forge genuine strength.

And that, you know, the genuine strength thing is something that I think is really needed today.

But man, let's get into it.

Welcome to the show, dude.

Thank you, brother.

Good to be here.

I've been looking forward to this.

Dude, come on, man.

You drove all the way from Nashville just to see low all me, man.

That's like the low you would have brought.

Dude, I tell you what, when guests come from wherever they're at to actually sit down with me,

it just, it makes me feel so good because I remember a time when they wouldn't.

Yeah, I bet.

You know, so thank you for being here, dude.

I thank you for having me.

But you're right, the effort to make face-to-face interaction,

whether it's for a show or any sort of relationship,

that resonates with people because face-to-face is so rare anymore.

Yeah, dude, it is, man.

COVID screwed all that up.

It sure did.

But it helped out in a lot of ways, right?

It, it, it, it got people to be home.

Yeah.

Corporations learn that their employees can make money at being home.

Yeah.

They got this nice little hybrid work situation that a lot of people have now.

So it works, but listen, man, for the audience that doesn't know about you,

why don't you walk them through a brief 50,000-foot level of your background,

what you're doing and where you're going?

Yeah, so I am a therapist now, but I wasn't always.

I started out in the corporate world and learned a ton, met some amazing people,

some amazing mentors, but every day it just felt empty,

just felt like I was pursuing something that didn't really have meaning for filming to it.

And so I jump into education, start teaching and coaching, and then as I start looking back,

I'm thinking, okay, these students are bringing me stuff that I don't really know how to help them with,

you know, deeper life questions, looking back even through a middle school on,

I always love to listen more than talk, and I always love figuring out like what makes somebody

tick? Like, why did that guy get so successful?

And then like, for example, there's a new Elvis movie out, I was always fascinated with Elvis

because he was like one of those guys, like he made it to the apex, and then he tore it all down.

Like, what's that? How did that happen?

So I just always got fascinated by reading biographies and watching documentaries,

just figuring out why people did what they did.

And so like a dummy, it finally hit me like, I need to be a therapist.

So I go back, made career, get the counseling masters, and ever since I have no problems

in my own, because like I can fix them all just like that. I wish it worked like that, right?

Exactly. Yeah.

The little secret is every therapist really goes into that field to fix themselves first,

and then we can help other people, but that's what I do now. And like, thankfully,

I have a little niche in the therapy world that's like, there are not a ton of male therapists,

and then there are a ton of male therapists who just kind of talk normal.

Like I hate lingo, like therapy speak. I just have much rather talk.

I mean, you know, we're both played baseball, so I'd rather talk like I'm talking to a baseball

player in a therapy session. And I think that that helps me reach guys that and women too,

that otherwise would have no interest in psychology.

That's such a good point, dude, because when I'm being coached by somebody,

or I'm talking to a friend or a therapist, you know, therapy is a tricky thing for me,

because, you know, I always jump to talk therapy doesn't work for me.

And it truly doesn't the way it's been done. Yeah.

You know, tell me about that. Yeah. Well,

you feel that way. Like, look, my fucker, I don't know why I felt that way, because if I did,

I wouldn't be feeling this way. But I need you to talk to me normal. Like, how do I fix this?

Like, just shoot me between the eyes and tell me what my problem is. And, you know,

it's just one of those things, man, that I truly respect. And then, you know,

leaving the corporate world and doing something scary like this, that's a big move.

What corporate business were you in? And what did you do before this?

So this is going to age everybody that I, that is probably listening, but there was an old

portrait studio company called Olin Mills. I know Olin Mills. Yes. Okay, let's go.

Yes. Hell yeah, bro. So like, I was there only new hire in five years.

Okay. This is when digital was taken over and they weren't adapting well. And so

all the sudden I show up and everybody's looking at me like,

well, are we growing again? Why are they hiring you? And it was, there was no match because

I was a 22 year old fresh out of college and the target market for Olin Mills is young moms with

kids. So how am I going to create marketing materials for them? Because that was my job.

It's create marketing materials for them. I'm like, I don't know why it happened, but I'm glad it

did because now I have the perspective of even a bad day in my current world is still better than

any good day in that world. So, and the people were great. It's just like I say, the job wasn't

fulfilling. So anytime I feel like I'm complaining, I'm like, nah, like let me put myself back in

those days because now I'm good. It's so funny because you're talking to your story of why you left

because you didn't feel fulfilled. You felt empty. Right. I have the same story. And that's how

this started, right? It started in me feeling so empty and depressed. Like, what am I actually doing

right now? Like, like, okay, great. I have this amazing sales career. And I'm helping.

It was, I was in medical sales and I was also in payroll sales. But it's like, I'm helping people.

I'm helping business owners or I'm helping patients, you know, the end user, you know, recover,

you know, with less pain and quicker, you know, by different intro operative therapies. Like, but

it was, it was a dead end for me, man. And I was getting so angry and so bored. And this thing came

up and it was just like, okay, this is what I want to do. You probably get to see the direct

impact for what you're doing now compared to then you, there were three people in between the

impact. Yeah. You know what, man? Like the impact is funny with, with this business, right? Because

for a long time, the people closest to you are silent. Because like, what are you doing, dumbass?

You're doing a podcast. Okay. Until it works, right? And then they start coming around and

listening to that. It's actually pretty good. You know, but, but for me, the direct impact comes

few and far between. And you know, what I'm going to say to the audience right now and to you,

I want them to take advantage of it because when someone goes and leaves me a written review on Apple

that I don't know, that is the highlight of my day. I got one from this lady. It said,

biz lady. And I don't know who it is. So if you're listening, you obviously listen to the show.

Thank you. Your, your review made my day. And it was so sweet. And it was just like Sean has a

way of talking to his guests and relating. And for me, I'm like, damn, she sees me. Yeah.

She sees what I'm doing here. And that's the value we're trying to give. So those moments right

there, those direct impacts or the DMs, sir, no, hey, I'm battling brain cancer right now. I've

been listening to your show. Well, I mean, wow, like that for me is why I do it. There's no

higher honor. No, there's not. It's incredible, dude. I mean, it's just, you know, what about you,

man? Like when you're able to help somebody get through some tough shit, like, how does that make

you feel? Oh, I mean, it's not even work. I can count on one hand, the number of days in the

last 10 years as a therapist where I felt like, all right, this is actual work. I just get to do

what I'm wired to do. And yeah, like I get up in the morning, I don't need a snooze button.

And it's not because I'm so disciplined. It's just like, I'm looking forward to doing this. And so

walking with somebody face to face, one on one, there's nothing more fulfilling. And I've done

like speeches and all the things that seem like they're going to be like the top of the chain. But

there's just nothing better than sitting with somebody, especially when they have that aha moment.

And then you see the next few days and weeks where the life turns around, like,

you see someone's lights come on right in front of you. It's like, there it is. Like that is the

moment, you know, and dude, to your point, man, you've been on a ton of different press. NPR,

some big TV, you've been on stages. And that is, that wasn't even a prerequisite for you coming

onto the show. I didn't know it until recent. I'm like, oh, damn, this is really, really cool, right?

For me, I wanted you on the show because I vibed with you, right? And I loved your approach.

And dude, I love your freaking content, dude. It is so damn good. And that must come from your

marketing background. But you've built a really good platform that I know speaks to men.

Most importantly, and can't speak to women too. But, you know, you wrote this book and tough enough.

And you did this, you put this, here we go. Oh my God, dude. I'm trying to find words,

but you did the stitch, I guess, or something like that where you're reacting to this man,

trying to toughen his son up by kicking him in the ribs. And when I watch it, I'm like,

I can't comment on this one yet. I got to remove myself and see what is trying to be said here.

But the overall message was is like, you know, not enough fathers are raising strong young men.

And I think that's true. Like, I'm not going to kick mine in the rib cage. But I understand this.

But dude, like, I saw it. And I'm like, this son of a bitch is genius, because I thought you

were going to get torched. And like, everybody's like, whatever the, the comment was for the book,

I can't remember it was like, book, book, book, book. I'm like, there's like 400 people here that

just asked for his book. And so it was just, let's walk through that, man. Like, how scary was that

putting that out by the way? You know, it wasn't scary because I've seen that scenario, not that

video, but I've seen other versions of that in real life. So often that I know, number one,

I'm going to get disagreed with. And I'm okay with that because I'm not trying to be sensationalistic

or anything like that. I truly see that there is a father or father figure crisis going on in

the country. And then I see how many young guys are struggling and craving that. Most of them don't

even know they're craving it. So I just knew, all right, this is a visual representation of what

we're missing in the country. And so I wasn't nervous at all. I was excited just because I knew nobody,

not nobody, very few people talk about this stuff. And so I at least wanted to kind of throw that out

there just to get something stirred up. Because like you said, I knew there was a hunger. Like,

there's a, there was a story of a buddy of mine. He's in meetings all day in his office,

walks out under the street and all the sudden smells from food trucks hit him. And at that moment,

he had been so busy until then, he smells that foods that he realized, I'm so hungry. But he

didn't know he was hungry until he got the hint of it. And that's the kind of stuff that it was

showing in that video where, oh, we need this and we didn't know we needed it. No, I can relate to

that because when I watched it and then thought for a lot further on it, I said, Sean, are you

raising a strong young man? You know, like, I feel I am. But, you know, I do it a little bit

differently. But, you know, it made me think, you know, and that's what I really love about what

you put out there. You make people think, man. And I think that is so important. So walk me through

the journey of the book. Yeah. The book, it basically happened because so many young guys have been

coming to see me and they have no guides, no in-person guides and then no real content. So

the publisher came to me and I wouldn't even think of writing a book like that just wasn't on

my list of goals. So they came to me saying, hey, we want you to write a book for a man. And I was like,

okay, but there are thousands of books for men. So why would I write another one? Because there's

plenty of good ones. And then two things hit me. I can't get it. I have a list of like 10 to 15

books that I would love for every guy to read, but reading is so in decline right now. I knew

that's never going to happen. So what if I took the best of those books and put it into one? And then

I have always known that the guys in their 20s have been tossed aside. And that pisses me off. And

so I thought, well, if they want a book, I'm going to give them, I'm going to write something for a

group that has been forgotten. And as best as I can tell, as best as Harper Collins, the publisher

can tell, there's not been a book written for guys in their 20s. And so that like this, this

book is like, it's not going to be this mass wide seller that goes on open or anything, but I don't

care. I want to reach guys that feel feel like they're either forgotten or worse, like they've been

told, we don't really need you like. Hey, guys, we're going to take a quick break. And we're going

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stay determined. Dude, and what a great publisher. Harper Collins, like, dude, is this your first

book? First one. Yeah, man. There's such kind people. I love them. They're great. I've worked with

our their PR department on some gas and things like that. They're a great group and a great group.

But no, I think you're right. Because when I look back to my 20s and I'm in college and I'm out

playing baseball, and I'm not going to say my dad stopped bothering me. But there was a big

disconnect because I was out doing what I was doing, right? I'm in Louisiana. He's here and it's

like those critical years, man, are so important because if you do not have direction,

look what's going on in the world right now. All the shootings, all everything. And a lot of them

points to not having a present father figure. This is a big deal. Yeah. But yet there's a big narrative

going around. I can raise my son on my own. He doesn't need a father. And I don't know that life.

You know, and I'm not going to judge it. I will say that there's so many strong women out there

that are doing such a fine job, but also a man can't do what a woman can and raising and a woman

can't give what a father can. They can give a ton. Sure. And I don't want that to be misconstrued,

ladies. I truly believe that you guys are way better than us. But there's certain things that

a young boy needs from his father. Yeah. I don't know why it has to be a competition between

men and women. Well, because you know, social media, we're going to get torched on that one right

here. That's true. Like, and maybe we'll put that out as a clip because we're going to get torched

on it. And that's okay. But, but yeah, man, it should not be a competition. Right. You know,

it shouldn't be. Yeah. Well, and because it's complimentary, it's like peanut butter and jelly.

Mm-hmm. You got to have both to complete the sandwich here. And so

you talk about the women in the comments sections or women saying like, I don't need a man.

Most of the comments that are in those type of videos that come from women, it's heartbreaking

because they're literally asking, please help. How do I raise my son on my own? And then how do I

get him around father figures? Mm-hmm. And I don't have enough room in a comment to really help

guide them. And so I just, I pray like God helped them find somebody that's going to actually

show them the way in person. And I give them a couple of tips in the comments as much room as

it allows. But the stats, I always like to flip it positive, but we'll start with negative.

One in three households has no dad present. Mm-hmm. And then there's no way of telling like,

with the dads that are present, there's no way of telling how good of a dad they are. But

you and I anecdotally know it's probably pretty low. Yeah. And then, but the positive side is

if somebody does grow up with either a father or a father figure, they're 130% more likely

to take on a leadership role in things like a company, a team, anything a little bit later in

life, 130% more likely just from having a father figure. That didn't even have to be real dad.

And so like that right there is an important point for the audience too. So like, you know,

there's a lot of different programs, right? Like that you can go out there and get mentors for

your sons. Yeah. But sports sports is a big deal. Sports is a big deal because coaches

become father figures and we both live that life as coaches. And, you know, I didn't know until

today you coach baseball, right? And so like all of this makes sense, right? The easy connection,

the, I mean, we're, we're in line with our ideologies here, both baseball coaches. Like baseball,

baseball dude, you can, once you meet someone, you know someone's baseball dude, right?

But for me, there was, there was a lot of different mentors through me playing baseball that taught

me things that my father didn't that, you know, maybe taught me patience, maybe, you know,

taught me certain things on how to respond instead of react. So, you know, again, there's many ways

to get that mentorship in your life. And it doesn't have to be a father. I mean, look, I grew up

with that biological father. Okay. And my mom married my dad who I call my, I mean, he's my dad,

my dad, you know, I was like eight or nine. That's my dad, right? You know, but I know what that's

like. And I just think it's, you know, when I look at my children, you know, I'm not perfect.

Shocker. Which I fall short, you know, so much. And I fell short yesterday. You know, I, I

flipped my lid, you know, and I'm paying for that today because I look back at it. And it's like,

I could have done better. Like I could have done so much better. And it's funny because I never

lose it on my son. It's my daughters. And I don't know why that is. I think I know why that is.

I just feel like with my daughters, like sometimes I just can't win. You know what I mean? It's like,

can I connect fully? Like no, I can, I mean, like I'm super close with them, but it's like,

I feel like I, you can even go down to like what I cook for dinner. Like there's only so many times,

like you can hear like, I don't like that. Or like, oh, that's what we're having. It's like,

I've just spent the last two hours doing this. You know, so like, I, I don't claim

to be this all the time. I am a human being and I struggle. I think one of the biggest things that I

have to work through is, is simply that like the response instead of the react. And, and it's so hard

when you're in the middle of it. And it's like, my wife said this to me yesterday, she says,

if you can't control your emotions as an adult, how do you expect your children to?

It's like it really pissed me off at the moment. Oh, yeah. Nobody wants to hear that.

It's like, dude, I'm, this is like 3% of my whole life that this happens. I'm 97% spot on.

But, you know, and then I think another emotion that comes is like the disappointment.

Mm-hmm. You know, like I, I, I'm so disappointed in myself when, when, when things like that happen.

Mm-hmm. Can I patch you on the back, though?

Yeah, sure. So the first thing you said, even before you went into the story, you owned up,

I'm flawed. I lose my temper. Even before you talked about it on who you were losing it on,

like, and you said, the quote, I think you literally said, I need to be better.

Mm-hmm.

I don't think 25% of men would be able to verbally say that stuff out loud. They're going to come up

with some excuse or they're going to blame, like I was just talking to somebody's dad the other day,

and it was after, it was after a sporting event, and he ripped his son. I mean, literally

called him a pussy. Yeah, after, and this was after, after the dude had gotten injured and kept

playing and lost because of the injury, that still caused him a pussy. And I talked to him,

and I tried to keep calm because I wanted to, you wanted to reach, yeah, you, yeah, I know what you

wanted. Exactly. And I just said, hey, what, what was your goal out of that conversation?

And of course, he's not going to answer that. He's too, too defensive. And I said,

if you had it to do over again, would you do it differently? And he goes, no, because he needs

to be tough, and like it's, it was always just pointing outward. So the fact that you pointed inward,

and said, like, I mess up, I got to get better. That separates you from so many men right now.

And it's, sadly, it's easy to separate ourselves from a lot of men these days. But the other

thing you said, in terms of the, I forget the word you said, we don't have much of daughters,

but there is a reason that, that so many men are workaholics is because we get the respect

at work because we can control the outcomes so much or at least have more of an influence

over the outcomes. But we get home, especially with daughters, we got no control over outcomes.

We can't figure out how we got there. So we feel disrespected and we don't really know it. So

we tend to start withdrawing from that from the home situations and stay more at work where we

kind of get that sense of like, okay, I can make a difference. I can't get the outcomes I want.

That's a great point, man. I mean, it's a really good point because it's like, there's only so much

a man can take, right? And, you know, over the last month, you know, I've been told by my wife,

like, hey, you're, you're escalating a little more. I know you're stressed. Like, you know,

you're taking it out on me and it's hurtful. And I'm like, I don't feel like I am. And, you know,

I look back at it today. I was like, okay, like, I see it. There are reasons. And it's not what

she or they think. It's not the stress from the job. It's certain stressors to where I feel

I'm falling short at home. Yeah. And I'm not trying to. It's like, I cook every meal, you know,

I make sure the the kitchen's cleaned. I make sure like, you know, I help out with the laundry

when I can. But I just feel like sometimes it's like, it's not enough. And that's hard for a man

because I am so busy. I am doing a lot. I'm constantly moving. If I get a text during the day,

can I got an order from Target or Sephora? Can you go pick it up? Like that's taking time out

of my day. Yeah. But you don't have that that I don't have. But I, but I, but I do it because I

want to serve. And, and I'll get very agitated if I feel underappreciated. Boom. Yeah. And that's

so common. We, we do need to be appreciated. It's like earlier you talked about people feeling

seen and heard, whether it be in the comment sessions, whatever. Like that's what a man needs. It's

like what there's an old book called Love and Respect. And we need both. But generally speaking,

women need a little more love than respect and generally men need a little more respect than love.

And so if we just hear those words, like, Hey, thank you. Like I appreciate what you're doing.

And through a wall for somebody, especially our wife. So yeah, yeah, you're, you're normal.

Congratulations. I'm a normal man. But the, but the other issue is whenever we blow up or we give

some sort of reaction, if it's generally like on a scale of one to 10, if it's like a six or above,

that's the indication that it's not really about what's happening in this moment. One billion

percent. Yeah. One billion percent. We carry around labels from, from our past and limiting beliefs.

So whatever happened in this moment, probably hit that bruise that hasn't fully healed yet.

And our nervous system doesn't know time. So it thinks that we're like in this moment,

but it's also when we're eight years old. So we just get all reacting.

And that's a hard thing to unravel, too, in a mind. So if the audience are, how does one go

through? Because for me, like, when that situation happened, it was like, it was a seven.

It wasn't eight, nine or 10, but it was, it was, it was in between a six and a seven. For sure,

I'm going to give myself a seven on that one. Yes, sir. And, you know, it's a point where I barely

spoke the rest of the day. And this morning, you know, and, and then I think, you know, as a father,

it's like, I just sent my kids off to school. You know, and you never know what's going to happen

in this day and age. No, again, I'm not saying that I had a bad morning with my children. I didn't,

you know, I loved on them, but I wasn't 100% in me. I was feeling a little wounded from last night.

And also the shame of disappointing your wife two days before your anniversary.

Oh gosh. Yeah. So tomorrow is our seven year wedding anniversary.

And, you know, so that'll be after this coming, they'll be the, you know, February 21st is our,

sorry, 24th is our anniversary. And I was like, how do you fuck that up, Sean? Like, how do you,

how do you honestly fuck it up so bad in that moment? And everything was fine. That one moment

bomb goes off. And it's like, what's wrong with him? Well, your guess is as good as mine.

Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you know, can I, can I dig on that?

Yeah, please. I'm gonna go for it. I'm gonna go for it. No, go for it. That voice is a job interview by

them. I'm thinking about hiring you for real. Let's do it. I mean, that is true, but this is not a job.

But anyway, go ahead. So that voice that said, all right, Sean, how do you fuck that up that

badly? Did that sound like somebody from your past? That's first question. And then two,

did that voice carry with it like, you're a failure? Or was it more of a curious tone? Like, how did

you mess that up? No, so I don't know exactly how to answer your first question. I will say that I

grew up around a lot of yelling. And so I think what it does is it brings me there. And it's like,

I don't want my children to see that. But there's times where I fail and they do see that.

You know, I'm not aggressive. I don't throw shit. I don't hit things. I don't put my hands on

people. But when I go, I go. You know, because there's also a competitive spirit for me. Like, I know,

I want you to know that I'm right. Like, this is not the deal, right? And so I think it plays on,

you know, shame, right? Like that I escalated to that point to where I now responsibly have to

do damage control. And those are hard moments, man. I mean, they teach me a lot. What they really

teach me is is like, Sean, you have a lot of growing to do. And I'm here for it, man. Like, I'm 47.

And I got a lot of life left, you know, hopefully. Yeah. Right. But but like, yeah, to me,

man, it just plays on like, I didn't like to hear that when I was a kid. And then I just put that

in front of my kids. So I don't think it was a, you know, a moment of like constructive criticism.

I think it was more a moment of shame. Sure. Sure. And I'm glad you use that word shame because

that really is the word. But I've also found that most men don't really want to use that word.

They don't really resonate with it. So what I found is two things. The stuff from our past,

I hate using word trauma because it's just so overused. It is. And guys again, don't really connect

to it. So I use the word injuries because, you know, we're athletes. We know what some of my

favorite conversations with guys like, hey, what's your worst injury ever? Like, you can talk

about it. And so same idea, like we get the internal injuries and just because we can't see them,

we think they're not there. But it's those moments from like your past, when you were around a

lot of yelling, that left injuries inside of you. And then when something happens that makes you

feel like you're not good enough because that's what shame is. So we got injuries and we got

not good enough. What happens is those moments in the past that leave those injuries in us,

they also leave messages or like meanings that we attach to and we're connect to them. And so

often it's like, well, because this event happened that hurt me. This must also mean that I'm not

good enough because if I was good enough, it wouldn't have happened. And so a lot of times,

the things that we react to in the moment is because again, it's hitting that

old age and then the ways we talk to ourselves, it usually sounds like what you did this again. So

that means you're not good enough. And like, how did you screw this up again? Like it's the same

cycle that keeps going over and over. Because yeah, dude, thank you for that. Because, you know,

and for the man and even the women listening, like when you have a certain event happened with

your kids, you can't take that back. And what I think what makes, I don't want to say

me special, but yeah, I'll say one of my gifts is like really feeling that and going,

do I want to be the reason my daughter is hurting right now? Like, no, you know, and I know,

my children think the world of me, dude, like I know, I know they know their dad. Those moments,

man, like those are so hard, dude, you know, especially as a man. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Because we want to

be the superhero and always come through. It goes back to a number of kids. Like we want to be the guy

that provides and protects. So when we don't do that perfectly, yeah, it's going to hurt. Yeah.

But we got to, again, we got to deal with the stuff in the past that keeps us in the cycle.

Because if you don't deal with the past stuff, it's just, it's basically you arm wrestling with

yourself. Like I got to do better today. Yeah. But you're, there's still something in you that's

injured. And that's what's causing some of the explosive reactions. Let's dig into that real

quick. Because it is so hard for people to go back and see what their past injuries are. And I

know you do EDMR. Does that help? It can. Yeah. If they're, so there's all kind of different ways

to deal with the past injuries with traumas. EMDR is a, we don't have to say the fancy full name,

but it's basically, you know, the full name, dude. Yeah. And it's eye movement desensitization

and reprocessing. There you go. So now we've nerded out, which I do. But it works here. And let

me go back to what you said about talk therapy and how it doesn't work for men. I will, I don't

mind getting clipped on this. Talk therapy generally does not work for men. Like a conversation

works for men because we need to talk. We need to be heard. But in terms of making the actual

changes at the root, talk therapy doesn't get it because talk therapy hits the front of the brain,

which is where our rational logical thinking is. But the stuff the roots are in the subconscious

brain. And talking doesn't reach the subconscious brain because your subconscious doesn't speak

English. Like I put it in the book, I have this, this concept called the caveman. The caveman is

responsible for all those like outbursts and instincts. And he doesn't speak English. He lives

in your subconscious. And so you could sit here and talk it out all day, but it ain't going to

touch him because he speaks a different language. He speaks things like EMDR or breathing or other

types of movements and therapy. So when I when I meet with a guy in a truly therapeutic way,

we do a lot of talking at first, but that's just to build a connection course. And then once they

trust me enough, then we get into the subconscious stuff. So EMDR is one of those ways. And it works with

eye movement, the kind of the back and forth eyes or tapping with your legs or tapping under

shoulders. Because again, it's it's bypassing that brain, the front of the brain and getting to the

roots a whole lot faster. What are some other ways that you reach that caveman in the subconscious?

My favorite way is internal family systems. Like have you ever seen the movie inside out the first

of the second one? Yeah, I've seen both of them. Yeah. Like that, I hate complimenting certain

things that Disney does. But that movie, they took five years of my grad school and they shrank it

into two hours of a movie. It is genius. Really? I'm sitting there. I took my nieces and nephews to it

and they're laughing and having fun. At the same time, I see what they're actually doing with the

scene. I'm with their crying. So I'm like, don't look at me. So what happens is in that movie, they

really do show that these characters, there are these parts in us. And the parts are not us. So

if we start beating ourselves up like with your explosion, yes, it came out of you, but that

wasn't the real you that exploded. That was a part in you that felt threatened like the caveman.

And so when the caveman feels threatened, he thinks you're literally going to die. It's like,

I'll give you the quick lowdown of the caveman. So he thinks that anything is might kill you.

And he was really helpful back in the days when we were out hunter-gatherers, having to kill

our food and live out in the wild. Like if you heard something rustling in the bushes,

like that might be a bear. So you need your caveman to put you into fight or flight mode.

Now, I mean, we're in comfortable indoor settings. So he kind of has no job, but he's pretty dumb.

He's really good at the one thing of keeping you alive. But he's sitting there bored looking for

a job. So he'll look at something like a speech or a confrontation, like a uncomfortable

confrontation with your wife or your boss. And he thinks, well, if it's uncomfortable, it might kill

us. So we got to we got to bow up or we got to run away. And so we have to do things that are

ways that speak to him. So again, IFS is like, you close your eyes and it's a weird spooky thing

at first, but it's not spooky because there's research behind it. But you actually have to have

little imaginary conversations in your own head with these little parts. And like at first,

because I tried it as a client first before I ever got trained in it. And like that's the only

type of therapy that really broke through really. And so I never heard of that one internal

family systems. Yeah, IFS is really interesting because like to your point, it's like when you

I've never so again, conversation right helps. Yeah. Like I've never had anybody break down to me

what the subconscious is. Yeah. It's like, okay, it's a cave. It's your caveman doesn't speak English.

It's based on wiring. This, you know, past injuries, the fight or flight. I have to protect or

I have to kill or be killed. Exactly. Because that's what happened way back in the day.

You know, that's just an interesting that's that's pretty damn cool, man, because I now I kind of

understand it a little bit more. I said, okay, this isn't me. This is that guy. You know, but we

got to find ways to tame him, right? And so like, because I don't find it helpful when he comes out,

no, but he'll come out on, he'll come out on certain things. You know, for me, and I love

conversations like this because it gives more connection with the gas, but also gives the audience

a really big peek behind me. And I think the one thing that makes this show really good is that

I'm not afraid to share it. Love it. I'm not. Because if it helps someone, cool. Yeah.

But like, dude, these moments, man, when they hit, it's usually because I feel threatened.

There you go. It's like, you're trying to take something from me. You know, it could be

with the business. It could, you know, the show, it could be anything like that. In the moment,

I feel like someone's trying to take my shit. I can't shut it off. Yeah.

You know, and my wife always says, like, you go zero to 60 like that. And it's very few

and far between, but when you do, like, I got, I got to remove myself. Yeah. It's because I'm

truly at that moment in time, overly emotional. Yeah. That's right. Across from six up of the

other six gone. And what you just said is you got to remove yourself. That is the exact way to

handle it. You're never going to be perfect enough to never have the reaction. So if you keep

beating yourself up for having the reaction, nothing's going to change. But if you remove yourself

so that you don't do more damage and then just get curious, then he can break the pattern.

But so many guys, because of past experiences again, we beat ourselves up. And the very thing that

keeps us stuck is shame or telling ourselves that we're not good enough. Well, what he thinks

going to happen next, if that's the voice you keep telling yourself. So so crazy. Like,

when that happened, I jumped in the shower doing. And I went to the grocery store. Yeah. And I went

to go get the stuff for dinner. I just needed to get away. Yeah. And for me, I like to get away,

but also be productive. I'm not the type of, you know, parent, nor husband that's going to get

away and stay away. It's going to be, well, when I get away, I'm still going to do something for

the family. You know, I don't, I don't go play around. I don't head to the bar because back

in the day, man, that's what the caveman did. Exactly. Like, you know, like, you know, I remember

like if my dad got pissed, he was like, sometimes he would not even come home that night. There

was times. There was times. And I've never done that. But yeah, man, the removal at the end of the

moment, right? It is so important. But it's also got to be done respectfully. Exactly. You know,

like, I told the kids like, Hey, I'm just going to the store. I will be back. I will be back.

But I think what, what men and even women and just human beings in general, what's,

what's so important for us to understand how to, I guess, fix or temper is not ever feeling these

emotions because we're going to feel them, play, feel them. And then, okay, am I really

under threat right now? Is, is my daughter really trying to kill me? Is what my wife saying really

trying to take my livelihood away? Yeah. And the answer is going to be 100% no. No, but the trick

is how does one not react? Yeah. It goes back to what you just said. We got to respond and not

react. And here's the thing, an emotion, it, it will run its horse through your body because

emotion is really just a chemical. It runs through your body in 90 seconds to two minutes. So,

if you can remove yourself for at least that long. And like you said, do it respectfully. Say,

Hey, I just need a minute so I can come back as my best self. But get away. I love how you said,

he took a shower. I don't know if he did that on purpose or not. But when you put something,

some different temperature on your skin, that's one of the ways to talk to the caveman.

Because what he's doing, the reason that we, we actually react is that he comes from the subconscious

brain and shuts down your front of your brain. So he shuts down your rational thinking. Is that

why when people get mad? And like sometimes I'll get really mad. I'll say shit that I probably shouldn't.

Oh, yeah. Interesting. That's it. It's literally like if you looked at a brain scan in that moment

when you were reactive, the front of your brain would be almost, it would look like it's dead.

Just like the lights turned off in the front of your brain. But the back of the brain would be so

lit up and active. So doing something like step one, remove yourself, step two, do some sort of

temperature on your skin or one little trick I like is you, if you put your hand in your chest for

about two minutes and then breathe into your belly. So your stomach starts expanding like a balloon.

That tells your brain that you're getting a hug. It's wild. Like the way the body is wired,

it's like, okay, God knew what he was doing with the whole like all the nervous system and

mind body connection. So if you do stuff like that or write out like, okay, I'm feeling this. I'm

having this thought like when you see it on paper, it's so much less intimidating when you're

like, oh, it's just these little words. And you slow yourself down enough to let the caveman know

that I'm safe. And I can lead us because he thinks in those moments like you're about to get killed,

I got to take over. It's a crippling feeling, right? Because you know, there's a level of me that

knows that this isn't okay. It's not okay, but once you get there, you can't shut it off, right?

And you know, I think I might have seen it from you, but I mean, because you triggered a memory,

it said, you know, that that emotion is going to sit with you for 90 seconds. So if I just make it

through 90 seconds, 90 seconds, like, that's a challenge. I mean, I mean, it doesn't seem like

it would be a dude. It's a minute and a half, right? Like, figure your shit out, bro. But like,

dude, that minute and a half feels like an eternity. Oh, it's a battle when you're in it.

When you're in it, and it's in it, the energy that it strips you up, I went to the store,

came home. My son goes, hey, can we watch King of Collectibles? You know, the King goes in,

like, I've seen every season, every episode. I love that show, but I turned it on to my son,

and, you know, we sat down. I turned it on for him. And then I was like, this one

ended the section, and he was way over there. And I'm like, no, I'm going to go sit down

like in the middle, at least. And then when I did, he moved closer to me. And he, you know,

he's 12 and he put his, he put his head on me. And I was gone. Yeah. Like, you know, and it's

crazy because my wife says this too. He's our Zen boy. Like, that kid can heal you in two minutes.

He's always been extremely emotionally intelligent. It's scary. Like he can walk in a room and he can

read it. Oh, he can read it, dude. And he knows what you need, you know, how to give it to you.

And it, dude, I felt, dude, like, I literally, it's a superpower. I do, it's truly, man. Like,

I passed out, but the, when you expend that emotion and, you know, kind of start coming down

from it, bro, like, I don't know about you, but I'm wiped. Oh, yeah. Everybody I'm done. Yeah.

And if, if you're not, then it means you're still activated. I mean, you're still in that

adrenaline psychopath, right? Exactly. No hope. You're done. You're done, bro. You're done. But yeah,

like it, you have to come down from that. Like any adrenaline rush is going to wipe us out. It

just takes so many resources to survive that moment of emotion. So yeah, once again, you're normal.

Oh, thank God. But you know, I think it's one thing to be normal, but you know, it's still for me.

It's like, okay, it's something to work on, right? Like I don't, I don't ever want to be like,

okay, well, you know, Tray, you know, my new therapist said, it's, it's normal. I'm okay. Like,

it doesn't give me permission, right? And it shouldn't give any man or any woman or any child

permission to act a certain way. Yep. But I'm damn sure responsible for not passing on that

generational thing to my kids. Yes, sir. And that's the thing that bothers me the most because of

that moment I fucking failed. Yeah. And again, it happens very few and far between. But you know,

it, it, I think it's also being a good parent is like, understanding, like, wait a second,

that's not, I, I messed up. And I, when I sit down with my daughter tonight, when I get home,

I'm going to sit down with her and I'm going to talk to her. No, I mean, we're fine. You know,

we did the cuddles last night. We got ready for school to occur. But like, I still want to acknowledge

like, hey, I know you feel I'm stressed and I know you feel that I'm reacting to you in certain

ways. Like I want to talk about it because I also want her to understand where I'm coming from.

You know, so that way she can, you know, make adjustments on her end as well. Yes. And say, okay,

this, you know, maybe it's not into me. It's like so funny. It's like, it's not what you say.

Ever tell you say it. You know, you can't tell you what happened. Please. Okay.

So they had a late breakfast. And I made a big breakfast. And like all day,

they, they didn't ask for lunch. And I didn't realize it was 3.30. I'm like, oh, shit.

Like a Jackie, I go, they didn't eat lunch. It's okay. I go, so I call, you know, my son up.

I said, hey, go down and talk to your sister. You know, it's already 3.30. So why don't you guys

have some fruit, have a snack or something. And then I'm going to go to the store right now.

And I'm going to make dinner and early dinner.

Well, he told my daughter that she didn't like it. She didn't like it. You know, she came,

she came up. And it wasn't like a, hey, I really would like to eat lunch. Can you please make

something small so I can eat? Oh no, she came in with a half-equadorean attitude, like half crying,

like looking at me and like, and it was just like that moment. I'm like, this 7-year-old is

handing me my lunch right now. And no pun intended. Well, actually pun intended. But it was like a

I read it differently than my wife. A wife read it as she's just emotional. She's sad because she

didn't have lunch. I'm like, dude, we don't starve our kids here. Like, this is fucking, it was one time.

But it was, it was the energy of like you disappointment. Like how do you, it wasn't, if she

would have came out and started, you know, like, but daddy, I'm really hungry. Like I won't

lunch. I'm like, okay, you know, but set me off, dude. I went downstairs, cut up some damn meat

and threw a mandarin on her plate. I'm like, your lunch downstairs. You know, and then she didn't

eat her dinner. You know, but that, you know, and people might be listening, like, let's show

that's not a big deal. But like, you don't live in my house. You don't understand my programming and

in how I perceive that moment. But like on a big scale, like, they're right. It's not that big of a

deal. But at that moment, it was like, the slower role, like, who are you talking to? Right.

You know, and it was on the heels of the night before, you know, I'm making all this, I mean,

there was rib eye. There was New York strip and comes down. And my daughter, I don't want people to

think that my daughter is not, she's an amazing human being. She's a sweet heart. But she comes down

and goes, I don't like lime cilantro rice. Now, I, I looked around, I don't like your attitude.

You know, but here's the key. Here's the key. That only happens when she watches a lot of TV.

We don't, we don't turn on the TV during the week. And then on the weekends, it's a privilege.

You know, it's not, it's not a privilege. No, it's not a privilege. It's like, it's not a given.

It's like, okay, at 12 o'clock, you can turn on the TV and watch something. But what happens is,

my wife and I like to spend time together because we don't ever really get to during the

week. She's like, all right, cool. Let's let them watch it. Well, then,

you know, like the monster comes out with that little girl, man, the TV does it, right? And so,

like, I don't know. I mean, I'm rambling at this point. But that's exactly what happened.

And, you know, working through it, man. Well, one thing you said, like, somebody from the outside

looking in, they've got the vantage point of objectivity. So they're in their logical brain.

But if they were in your situation, they'd be in their caveman brain and then the reactions.

And your daughter was in her caveman brain because like, when we're hungry, I don't know about you,

when I get hungry, like, it's an urgent situation, even though I know I'm not going to starve,

but there's something illogical in me is like, I got to get food. And so she was probably

having that going on. And then whatever, you know, what she said is made you feel like the

disappointment was triggered the whole the old injuries. But here's the thing. And this,

I want to connect this to what you posted earlier today on your on your account on Instagram.

Okay. Yeah. The fact that it made you feel like a disappointment, that tells me that there's

something in you that is afraid of being a disappointment. Again, a part is not the real you,

but there's a part in there that's afraid of being a disappointment. And usually if we're

afraid that something's true about us, usually means something happened in the past that made us

feel that way. I can break that down for you. Yeah. Um, thank you for bringing that video up,

man, because that was a very raw video. Yeah. Let's talk about it. I want to talk about it.

Yeah, but for me, you know, kind of what I'm talking about in that video is, you know,

my whole life I grew up as a baseball player. And I talk about this a lot like my identity shift

or my identity crisis post sports, whatever. The moment I had my arm injury, when I got to LSU,

I never materialized into what they thought I was going to be what I felt I was going to be.

And that created this massive crater size chip on my shoulder to where like, wait a second,

now dad might be right, because I'm not going to succeed here. And I'm not going to go play

in the major leagues. I have no other skills, right? And so when I feel stagnant in growth,

or when I feel like we're not being seen, because nothing will trigger me more. I'm very protective

of this company. I'm very protective of this show. And when I don't feel seen, I take that very

personally. And I know I shouldn't, you know, if you look at the base of the four agreements,

don't take anything personally. I'm breaking an agreement, right? Because I believe in that.

But I'm also human, right? So like in those moments of where I'm saying, what's the next step?

What's the next step? What is this? What is this? How do we grow? How do we grow?

It's about being seen. It's about breaking through the white noise of the internet. That's all it is.

It's not going to make my life infinitely better. It might financially. But I've already got an

amazing wife and three beautiful children in a nice house. Like I've got everything. I've got

more than a lot of people have, right? But those moments right there is triggered on the fact that

not being seen and not performing. And the magic part of this is those fears of not being seen

and not performing, those probably have come in handy for you in building your success,

your measurable success. So we can't just take them and throw them out. Like one of the reasons

I'm meeting some of the stuff you're saying or all the stuff that you're saying with grace

and curiosity is because you want to grow. And you've said it, you're not looking for excuses and

looking to blame. If you were, if this were a real therapy session and you were looking at excuses

and looking to blame, I'd be having a whole different approach. But with somebody like you that

wants to grow, I'm just saying, Hey, like it's not really you that's responding in this way.

It's not really you that wants whatever happened in that moment, the blow up and all that.

So let's get curious about what's really underneath. And so those are that concept of not being seen

and being a disappointment. I'll tell you a couple of quick stories to help kind of give some

context here in the book. I talk about this guy. He walked in on the very first session. Young guy

late 20s. He walks in. He's mad. I've never met him. He's already pissed. He's already pissed.

Like, what did I do? And I'm a little nervous. Like, do I need to defend myself? And he walks in

and he takes out his car keys and he slams them on the table. And it's a keys to like a Lamborghini,

I think. And he goes, all right, I'll drive a Lamborghini. And he takes out his phone,

shows me a picture. He's got a great looking wife, two cute kids. I got a wife. I got two kids.

I make blah blah blah whatever it was for a year. And he goes, now tell me, why the blank am I not happy?

Just silence. He's like staring holes through me because like, I'm gonna somehow come through

for him in one sentence. So you're talking about not wanting to be a disappointment. Yeah, if Jesus

I can come through for this guy. And so what happened was we dug underneath the surface. And we

realized that he thought because of past events, he thought that if he can just achieve enough

that he won't be running away from the label of disappointment anymore because stuff happened

to him in his past where he really did feel like a disappointment. And all of his success,

he thought or a part of him thought in his subconscious, if I just achieve enough, then I don't

have to worry about being a disappointment anymore. And that's that's so much that's why your

video from Instagram resonated with me. I'm like, oh man, the the fuel that that causes us to achieve

certain things, we got to keep that because if we throw it out, then we're throwing it out,

throwing out some of our true DNA, but we got to harness it because the stat is people who reach

big goals within three months of reaching that goal, they go back to their kind of normal level of

feeling, like normal level of happiness, normal mood, whatever. So it doesn't last that long,

but even the biggest accomplishments about three months later, you're back to feeling normal. And so

Victor Frankl is a Holocaust survivor. He had a great concept. He said, it's not that achievement

is wrong. It's just that you're making yourself the center of the story. And so if we can keep that

in mind, it's like achievement is great. And because two things are true, it's not a butt. It's an

end. Achievements great. And it needs to be aimed at something in service of something bigger

than ourselves. But so often we that caveman takes over and it's like just a little more,

just a little more, just a little more like Rockefeller's quote was how much somebody asked him how

much money is enough. It's just one more dollar. It's just never enough. And that's one of reasons I

could put that word enough in the title is because like guys feel like we're not good enough,

not strong enough, not tough enough, not good looking enough, not rich enough, whatever it is.

And I'm like, yeah, there's never going to be a finished line if that's how we're shaping things.

So so interesting. Like when I when I was fourth grade, I was the only new student

in the in the school. I'm walking in on first day of class. I'm nervous. I don't know if I'm

going to fit in. They're all sitting in a circle and I walk to the circle, just nervous is all

get out and one dude looks up and he goes, damn, I'm glad I'm not looking into a mirror right now.

And I'm like, looking back, that's kind of a clever insult from a fourth grader. That's pretty good.

But in that moment, I wanted to just crawl in a hole and disappear. What I didn't realize was in

that moment, talked about injury, it left an injury in me. And I took away some messages or some

labels, some limiting beliefs like I must be ugly. If I'm the new guy in a situation, I'm probably

going to get rejected. So anytime I can't avoid being the new guy, I better just be quiet and

not bring any attention to myself. Wow. So like for me, not getting rejected was the thing I kept

trying to achieve more to outrun. Like with you, not being a disappointment or not being seen

was the thing you potentially keep achieving to try to outrun. It's the same playbook. It's

just our caveman trying to solve a problem in a way that's not really helpful. You know, it's

interesting because my buddy Rich sent me a message on Instagram. He's like, bro, haven't you read

relentless for 10 Grover? Like three times. He was well cleaners are always searching. You know,

Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, that's not a bad thing. And he's right to an extent. I think,

you know, I may have said, you know, people are going to say whatever to sell books.

That is what it is. I do believe that high achievers are always pushing. But my point is,

is when it robs you or robs me of the present joy of what has already been created. But that's a

fucking problem. Yes, sir. Okay. Because I'm going to tell you something. I know what's been

publicized about Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant. Those are the two goats. Sorry. In the story,

by the Jordan never lost the finals. Yeah. Sorry. You know, uh, three peaked twice and didn't

have to move teams. You know who I'm coming after here. You have to move teams and recruit players

to win championships. He carried him. He carried him. He made it work with what he had there. But

at the same time, like even with Kobe Bryant, man, like he would win a championship and then he'd

be in the gym the next morning at 4 a.m. shooting hoops and trying to get better. But that does not

mean that he was not proud of what happened the night before. And where I get lost. And where

I think a lot of people get lost, especially in this industry, because it's so hard is like,

you can't help but to compare. Oh, yeah. Like you, like, well, how do I get there? And then it takes

away from the growth of last 12 months. That's why I said, like, hey, you know, you got to, you know,

why aren't we looking back at the last 12 months and seeing if there's any growth? If you have

a grown, well, then you have a serious conversation to have with yourself. But if there's been growth,

then you're on the right path. The problem is the caveman wants it now. Yes. I want my kill now.

I want to eat now. And that's not the way the shit works. Right. Again, he wants it now because he

thinks if you don't get it, you'll literally die. So we got like, we got to treat that urge with

some care as if he's a toddler that just doesn't know any better. Because if we try to squish him

with distractions like staying busy at work or substances or sex or, you know, whatever it is,

if we try to squish him down and try to ignore him or just silence him, he's going to get worse.

He will pop off. Exactly. He's going to pop off. It's interesting because like, yeah, as we do,

I mean, gosh, I could go the forever. But like, the thing is, is like, you mentioned earlier,

like when you have reactions where anybody has reactions, like for the audience, if you have reactions,

right, or you're popping off or your kids popping off. And you talk about the caveman with me.

But then you said that was your daughter's caveman. That may be the fix because now that could

be a trigger for me in a good way. If they're popping off, like, that's their caveman.

There you go. That's like, I almost say it's a trigger, but it's like a checkpoint.

Like, okay, well, now I need to be here for her because I know what my caveman's like,

I can't let mine come out right now. I got to help her. There you go. That's really cool, man.

Yeah. The more we understand how our body is really working, how our minds really work,

we see it in everybody. And like, sometimes you got to be careful because nobody, not nobody,

but very few people want to have it pointed out in the moment. So you got to have to keep it to

yourself. But you're like, oh, yeah, that's their caveman or like, that's their past injury coming

out right here in this moment. I'll do women love the point out your shit and the time.

Yeah, right there in the moment, it's like not the time. Not the time. Can you wait about seven

hours? Yeah. I'm shutting off my phone. I don't want to read the text. That's right.

But look, man, now I appreciate you so much, man. This has been so amazing and such a great

experience having you here and look forward to getting up to Tennessee to see you.

Let's do it. I've got a lot of people up there in Nashville. So I need to get up there.

But come on. We'll get you some boots and jeans. Yeah. Come on, man. Some, some wranglers.

It's right. I can't wear, I can't wear, uh, can't wear express jeans and chucks on the cow pasture,

huh? Yeah, your boots will show through to the jeans. We have that.

But no, man, for the audience, you know, obviously, I know where to find you, but let them know,

you know, your website, I believe it's rugged counseling.com, right?

counseling.com. Yep. The book website is tough enough.com. Okay. And then, you know,

the socials are easy to find. Just really counseling on those. But yeah, I have this felt like

15 minutes. So this is that we're going on in hour and 15 actually pretty close, right? Right,

Ryan? Like about an hour hour? Yeah. I mean, we're killing it over here. Oh, I loved it.

You know, it's so much. Absolutely, man. And it's just again, it was an honor having you here.

And sorry, it took so damn long to get you here, man. But it's perfect timing. Yeah, man,

you know, I just feel like it happens at the right time. And, you know, I truly, you know,

enjoy everything that you do. And when I get to see your stuff come up, my God, that's my guy.

It's my guy right there doing it. You've, you built such an amazing platform. I think the book's

going to sell more than you realize. And we're going to put it in the show notes too. So,

I'm sat way, the audience can, you know, go check it out because there's, there's dads here,

man, that listen to show that, you know, I think this book could really help their relationship

with their, with their sons or even their daughters and not that it's broken, but like,

it can always be better. It can always be better. So, dude, thank you so much, man. Thank you,

brother. I enjoyed it. My guy, my guy. Well, there you have it guys. My boy, Trey Tucker,

broke me down, gave me a counseling session literally on camera. And I kind of had a feeling

that this was going to happen. And I'm glad it did because if I can show you guys that we all

struggle and we all have our issues and things that we need to work on, our traumas, our internal

injuries, as Trey likes to say, then we're all in this together and we're all normal. But,

you know, it's our job to really find out better ways where we can cope and

and counsel ourselves and be better for our children and better for all the people around us.

So, I just want to remind you guys again, go to thedeterminsociety.com,

sign up for the newsletter, please. And share this show with someone you know, love and trust.

Go follow my boy Trey at Rugged Counseling on Instagram, go buy his book at toughenough.com,

and really consume what he's saying because he's helped me out tremendously, as you can see.

And I just think he's a great dude. And in my humble opinion, there's not enough good people

right now being highlighted on social media. So, let's start that wave of highlighting good people

and giving love to where it matters the most. And until next time, stay determined.