Trump EXPOSED in Davos as the World LOSES Patience

Trump's foreign policy powder keg. What should we expect in the coming days, weeks, and months?

I'm Nick Knudsen, and welcome to a very special edition of the dangerous ones where I sit down with foreign policy expert Joel Rubin

for a timely conversation about whatever the hell is happening over there in Europe and across the world right now.

Let's get dangerous. But before we bring Joel in, I just want to say welcome to the show,

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Without further ado, let's bring in Joel. You may know him from his countless appearances across cable news podcast and social media.

Joel Rubin is a seasoned foreign policy and national security expert with more than two decades of experience in Washington, including service service as deputy assistant secretary of state for legislative affairs in the Obama administration.

He has also served as a senior legislative and national security advisor on Capitol Hill. More importantly, he's one of the nicest and most genuine people I've come across since getting involved in politics like a decade ago.

So I'm very excited to have him back on the show. Joel, welcome.

Thanks, Nick. It is an honor to be with you. And as the nicest introduction, I'm going to bundle that up and give that to my daughter so they can agree with you somehow and and you know, remember that being nice does carry you once in a while, even on hardtop.

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

And also just before we get started, plug for your sub stack called the briefing book. It's a must subscribe. So go over to sub stack search for the briefing book and Joel Rubin and and click that subscribe button.

So Joel, first off, you have friends throughout the world, including in Europe from from all of your work. What are people saying right now across the pond?

Oh my God, Nick. Look, man, for your audience as well, I've worked on Middle East policy and served in the Peace Corps. I lived in Latin America in the Peace Corps and lived in Israel and traveled around the Arab world and was just in Europe at some meetings and engaged a lot with people from across the continent.

So I'm hearing it from everywhere. Quite frankly, people are in a panic. And that's because in Latin America, they saw what we just did to Venezuela and they're wondering what the hell in the Middle East, they're looking at what we did regarding Iran and on the board of peace and Gaza and they're like, what are you doing? What's the vision? And then of course, now we're picking a fight with our NATO allies over territory that we have no business picking a fight over.

And they're flummoxed, they're baffled, they're distressed, they love America and do not get why our country is operating in such a hostile way to them in a manner that seems to advantage Russia, undermine global economy, harm our reputation, all for literally nothing because we don't need to do this.

Let's get what we want out of a better Arctic policy and greenland policy, right?

Yeah, I mean, for people who are flummoxed, take a number. I'm trying to be gentle here.

Right. No, no, no, from our from from from for our European viewers, just know that, you know, we are we're in the same boat. We're just like what?

What is happening right now? And I'm just curious, are people you said people still love America? That's great to hear.

Are people attributing this craziness just specifically to Trump to his broader administration or like to like a chain a shift in US policy?

Well, you know, look, I wish I could say it's just Trump and therefore because of Trump, it's an obvious target and the rest of the world is really frustrated with us.

But there is a context. There is a continuum here. There is a decade plus now.

And I think that the American people as a democracy, we vote for the leaders we want. Trump won this past election. Republicans won the house.

So, hey, America, if that's what you vote for, that's what you're telling the world we stand for.

Right.

And so I think there's an overall concern about the overall vision for the United States by the American political class and the American people.

Yeah.

And a sense that this really, the first term was not an aberration that it's actually the way the United States is.

And you know, we really need to be careful about blowing it with our allies.

We have benefited for 80 years now of having deep alliance since World War II across the globe.

And when I say they still love America and care about America, what's different in this instance with Trump that builds upon the continuum of negative trajectory that I was referring to is the hostility to even foreign citizens coming here.

The hostility to visas, the hostility to refugees, the overt racism like we saw today in Davos where language language was used about Somali and Somali people that was just extraordinarily racist.

I can't, I can't emphasize that enough.

And so that is now the vision that the world has of the way we think about them that we're closing our doors that we don't want them here.

That to me is what's different.

So the overall trajectory, they're concerned about how we've moved in the wrong direction, generally speaking on policy.

But now the sort of more visceral human, cultural, ethnic stuff that we're communicating, that's a deeper problem.

And that's where we begin to lose the world's interest in being our friend.

Yeah.

Well, that's a shame. And if you're in the, if you're viewing this right now or listening to this and you are from Europe or elsewhere in the, in the world, jump into the comments and let us know how you're feeling about America these days.

So Joel, I, this whole situation has really felt like Donald Trump has a telegram chat going with Vladimir Putin.

And he's just telling Trump everything to do because all of this feels like a like Putin's wet dream, you know, basically destabilizing NATO and all that.

So like, how does Russia fit into this? And if the, if Europe does pull back from, from the US and stop trusting the US, like, how does that change the dynamics as a visa V Russia?

Well, first and foremost, I don't think Vladimir Putin and his wireless dreams could have ever imagined the kind of good things coming out of this white house that you would be seeing.

Yeah.

This is beyond what anybody expected. There was never an expectation that the United States would threaten military action against another NATO partner.

But that's been done.

Yeah.

And that would, of course, destroy NATO. We are seeing European militaries, members of NATO, mobilized to defend another NATO country, gently and softly.

But they're sending forces to Greenland to say that territory is, is not to be attacked.

And so for Putin, he looks at that. And he thinks, well, I'm off the hook on the Ukraine war. Now, Zelensky is going to go to Davos. Maybe there's progress to be made.

But the reality is, is that President Trump has not yet taken the harsh action he needs to against Putin to compel him to end his war of aggression.

And so when you see, in the face of bipartisan support for those actions, like 85 sunk something said or is signing on to a bipartisan sanctions bill that's been installed.

So when, when, when Putin sees that, and he sees our moves on Greenland, he basically says, aha, they mean what they say in that national security strategy document of a month or so ago, they, they support spheres of influence.

They, America wants to dominate its hemisphere, look what they didn't win as well. They're kind of allowing China to do what it wants to do or they'll be okay with it. And then we get Europe.

And so for Putin, the tragedy here is that he's going to get all the lessons that people at UNI oppose, which is that aggression should not be rewarded.

All I should be supported, territorial integrity and sovereignty matters, things like that quaint ideas like that were building peace.

And so he continues his war of aggression and sits back and lets us kind of beat up our allies.

Yeah. So Trump Trump was in Davos today this morning and delivered some remarks. Can't believe they let that guy stand up there and talk.

But, you know, so it feels, it sounds, and it sounds like he has pulled back a little bit on, on, on what he was saying.

What have the, what, what have the Europeans done over the last week that, that sort of got him to back down a little bit?

Well, you know, it's really interesting. I'm going to talk like a foreign policy geek a little bit here, right? But that's why you're here, Joel.

I'm the geek and I am the foreign policy one at that. There's this sort of like idea that I think Trump and his team have, which is that we have unparalleled power.

Therefore, we have unilateral authority. We've seen this before. In Vietnam, the United States, we had unparalleled power.

Therefore, we have unilateral authority until we don't. Same idea in Iraq. We have unparalleled power and unilateral authority until we don't.

And so now Trump is going through his turn. We knock out Maduro. We went in. We have unparalleled power. Nobody's going to mess with us.

And we have unilateral authority until we don't. Turns out that Europe has $10 trillion in assets that an American assets and a larger economy than the United States. And it can cancel trade deals with us and tank our stock market overnight and mobilize military forces if need be.

We don't have unilateral authority. And that's why collective security through NATO matters. That's why collective engagement and diplomacy at international for like the United Nations matters. That's why they're so successful and they've survived.

There was a thing, I'll say one more thing. There was a thing you know this called the League of Nations after World War One where basically for a several year period, it was this Woodrow Wilson idea that we were going to create a forum of international dialogue. It was like a coalition of the willing.

And it was useless at the key moment in preventing World War Two. Well, after that, we built the United Nations Roosevelt and Eleanor Roosevelt in particular understood that the League of Nations was a sort of ad hoc construct. We needed something more firm and legal and and and completely comprehensive.

And the result is that we have not had a major power war since 1945. Right.

And that's what it means. And so Trump is learning the hard way that he does not have unilateral authority even if we have unlimited power.

We can't nuke everybody into submission. Right. And the markets do speak. And hopefully that lesson came through very clear because I think that's why we're seeing a shift in rhetoric about Greenland.

We'll see when Stephen Miller gets back in his ear, you know what happens. But for now, at least he looks to be moving in the right direction. Right.

Do you think it ultimately is the sort of corporate America and billionaires whispering into Trump's ear that sort of waved him off because the market had such a terrible deal.

Well, it's regular America too. Look, I mean, in poll after poll and Harry Anton did some great polling on CNN talked about it, like 40% negative on taking over Greenland. It's worse than the Epstein files in terms of American hostility turns out that American people don't want to go on an adventure.

It's going to cost hundreds of billions of dollars for a piece of territory that we already have good relations with when they're lacking in basic health care here in the United States.

People are living paycheck to paycheck 50% of Americans, like when the tax policy is all screwed up and people aren't seeing their income rise and affordability crisis is real.

Turns out in American people are not interested in unlimited misadventures around the world. And I guarantee he saw those poll numbers too.

Yeah. And he can't not he has a hard time not being loved for sure.

And this is his base. Let me just add one more thing. I find it kind of tastefully ironic that he's out in Davos hanging out with the global elites, you know, hobnobbing with the billionaires.

Like, I'm okay with that. What the hell? You know, he should go and talk to these people. It's international finance economics. Let them do their thing.

But he spent years crashing them years mocking them years attacking globalists and there he is, you know, so yeah, now he's going to leave a little at least a little bit with his tail talk between his legs. So that's that's interesting.

I'm sure they'll get some deals, you know, for themselves in the process.

Do you think that Trump's bluster and and just totally erratic sort of nation conquering type behavior? Do you think that's really comes from like policy or do you or is it more just like he's a real estate developer?

Right. And he that's how he understands things. He's like, oh, I need to acquire more property for my for my country.

Unpacking the psychology of Donald Trump. Yeah, sorry. That was a rough one.

You know, I will tell you, I think we have a couple of windows into a first and foremost, there is a value in international relations in having the madman theory implemented where a little bit of an extreme to get a good deal, right?

If we come back to a normal place on the Greenland policy where we expand our military bases, which by the way, we could do it anytime based upon a 1951 bilateral agreement right Denmark.

So that was never an issue. But if we expand our bases and then we get access to the rare earth materials that by the way are not being mine and we'll take decades to see.

Right. Then he can maybe claim some credit and say that we now have fended off the Russians and Chinese who by the way have not been surveilling that territory for decades.

Anyways, all that. But I have to tell you, I think that there's a vanity project going on here. Look, he wrote the letter to the head of Norway complain. He didn't get the Nobel and therefore he was going to get rough on Greenland. No more.

No more Mr. Nice guy. To me, that pretty much lays it out. He wants to be seen like James Polk. He wants to be the guy who acquired the big turf for America and grew our country's size.

That's what it's about. And you know, that's like 18th century theory man.

And but I think that's what's going on. So if he gets rebuffed then with Greenland, what's next? Because that desire that desire isn't going to go away for him.

You know, Canada. There's so many places to go. My Mexican friends are like, you know, I Caramba, right? Like seriously.

And you know, what we're getting out of the Mexicans is we're getting them to hand over a lot of drug lords. And I mean, there are some tangible gains, right? Like I don't want to say that all is lost.

It's extraordinary. It's not as if we couldn't do this and get these gains anyways. Right.

And to make everybody feel a panic and a concern and the unreliability and the destruction of reputation or institutions, the cost is very high.

Our country, you know, as a Peace Corps guy, you know, I have a little bit of a bias towards soft power. I think that soft power which basically means advancing American influence around the world through non-military means.

Through words and economic development and humanitarian activity. I believe soft power builds us deep, strong, long standing alliances and power around the world.

We can't squander that because it's like your friends. If you have a good friend, you just start shitting on that friend and bashing that friend.

They're gone. And you can't be like, oh, hey, let's let's go hang out one day. They're like, I don't know who you are. And I'm not going to talk to you anymore.

It is not infinite. No country has exceeded history and remain powerful and permanently, permanently powerful forever. Right.

And so we can't afford to just squander that soft power and those relationships. And I fear that's the big cost. So maybe we want totally take over Mexico or totally take over Canada.

And we'll get some utilitarian benefit out of his threats, which we could have gotten anyways. And the cost will be very high and hard to repair.

Do you think that there are any, you know, I've heard a Columbia Cuba. You know, I'm just thinking of sort of nations. That's a different reason. Yeah. Yeah. Please.

No, no, Cuba is like the big long thorn in the side of the United States of America since Castro 1959 Kennedy and Bay of pigs and Marco Rubio is a prominent Cuban from Miami.

And they just hate the Castro's, but it will be harder to dislodge the Castro's than it was to dislodge the majority of Chavez Maduro regime. Right.

And you know what we didn't do? Dislodge to Chavez.

Just Maduro.

That is right.

I bet he's pissed off the Fidel is dead, you know, where I was dead. Like, man, if those boys are still around and I could get them.

Right. So, so it's an ideological thing. And it's a real offensive thorn in the side to a lot of Cuban Americans in right wing.

A theoreticians that 90 miles off our coast is this annoying little island that doesn't give shit about what we say, right?

Yeah.

So that just bothers them. And at some point, they want to get them. And in the theory, I'm sorry, Nick, I just got to say the domino theory of spreading of the end of authoritarianism and democracy.

And all that, you know, domino theories are great in theory.

They rarely happen in practice. You know, when they happen in practice, they don't happen when you invade a rock and other countries fall.

They happen organically like in Eastern Europe. Right.

When the people of Eastern Europe and this forms of union rebelled on their own, we didn't knock out regimes.

They, they, the color revolutions later, I mean, they just all kind of flowed democracy through their own organic effort that we help facilitate through soft power.

Right. Right.

Through USAID and training and democracy and the voice of America, all these antiquated ideas that doges in the law and musk terminated.

Right.

So, so we don't have soft power tools to really events to change in Venezuela either.

So, so I think if we do Cuba, I think it'll, it'll be a harder not to crack and it will require a real investment and an invasion of physical resources, something that we have not done in Venezuela.

Yeah.

I just feel like he's really showing his hand and what his desire is. And, you know, I mean, he's, he's like a toddler.

Maybe there'll be some shiny object and he'll forget about his like concrete energy or whatever, but, but it feels like he, you know, even if, if he pulls back on Greenland that something, he's going to have something else in the crosshairs. So.

Yeah. And, and, and let me just go back to one core point for a moment earlier, which is that the National Security Strategy has its theory.

Undergirding all of the policy ideas, this concept of spheres of influence and hegemony in regions.

There has been a debate in Washington for a number of years between progressives and conservatives about American hegemony and the idea that we are a hegemony around the world.

We had bases everywhere. And so that's been a debate and a divide in many ways, even within the Democratic Party.

But now the discussion has shifted no more global hegemony, but now regional hegemony, but with the legitimate set of actions.

So the strikes against the boats in the Caribbean is part of basically policing and controlling all actions north to south in the western hemisphere.

You knock out Maduro, you knock out the Castro regime or the remnants of it, you take out the bad guys.

That's start, you start to control it. And so to your question, who's next? Well, there's one big country north of us in our hemisphere, it is not, not behaving right now.

And that's called Canada. And so the Greenland fits into that too. And that's sort of, that's the, that's the strain, that's the frame, the structure within which I think all these actions can be viewed.

Wow. Good times. So, you know, I know we've only got a couple minutes here. What, what gives you the most concern from a foreign policy perspective at the moment?

And what gives you the most hope, you know, when you look broadly across the world?

Well, you know, honestly, Nick, the most concerns over reliance on hard power, military power, the belief that we can basically just continue to exert military power solely to resolve all kinds of issues.

And that the bombing is sufficient for building up alliances and relationships. And you know, look, if we want to stop drug trafficking Latin America, we can't just physically do it ourselves.

We're going to need to have partners and allies in the region that are willing to do it. And they may be for a time. And then they may not.

And so we need to, we need to make sure that we are not only relying on military force. That should be the last resort.

Americans, thankfully, have not gotten killed in many of these events. And I think that's in heart because the President's team do realize they can't go on the ground because they don't have the support of the American people.

So they're doing it from the air remote control. But I think it's a very short-sighted way to deal with the broad array of security colleges facing us.

And we need to have more aspects of American power involved. What gives me hope, so it always gives me hope, the American people.

I know it's a cornball thing, but we are really cool country with a lot of brilliant people coming from all parts of the world, despite the crazy hijinks of what's happening now.

And whenever I go abroad and I love being abroad, I see our country and vice other countries. And I think my God, what an interesting, dynamic, diverse, multilayered, modern country we are with all of our flaws.

That's what gives me hope. And so I hope that the American people don't lose hope. And that we steer. And we can steer this administration too.

He does report to the American people despite what people are worried about in the King's argument at all. I get it, but he exists in a political environment too.

And so the American people need to show what we are all about. And that's what gives me hope.

Well, and just your point about poll numbers earlier, you know, I mean, if that, if that matters, if that really did factor into his thinking, then, you know, we have, we have the ability to network with each other to advocate for, for, you know, sane policies.

And, and maybe that gets back to him and it's worth it's worth doing.

I know I know I'm going to carry on just one more thing on, but we have to continue to steer forward in the best way we see fit for our country.

We have to, to go to core principles, we have to speak to the importance of democracy, speak to the importance of human rights, speak to the importance of equality.

We have to continue to push forward and win those arguments. When we don't win the arguments, we lose elections. When we lose elections, we get policies that we don't like.

We have to win elections and we have to maintain our pride in this country while we do it.

Well, that's a great note to end on. Thank you so much, Joel, a reminder to all of our viewers and listeners. Joel's sub stack is called the briefing book. Please, please go over there and subscribe. Joel, we'd love to have you back soon.

Thanks for joining me.

He's on. Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Appreciate you.

I love that guy. He's such a great spokesman around foreign policy issues and love having him on.

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