Trump Goes All In on the SAVE Act

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Good morning. It is Saturday, March 21st. I'm Ali Velshi.

In August of 2014, a man named Wayne Fish went to a division's of vehicle office in Lawrence, Kansas,

to renew his driver's license.

While he was there, he availed himself of the opportunity to register to vote.

He left the office that day, believing that he had, in fact, registered to vote.

But he had not.

The division of vehicle employee did not inform him that Kansas had recently passed a law

which required documentary proof of citizenship to register to vote.

Fish received a letter in the mail saying his registration application was incomplete

and that he had to provide proof of citizenship, which is harder than it might seem in a country

in which there are absolutely zero other reasons to need documentary proof of citizenship.

He could not find his birth certificate when he attempted to obtain a replacement

from his place of birth he ran into another obstacle.

He was born on what was by then a decommissioned Air Force Base in Illinois.

Two years and an entire election cycle later,

Fish finally found his birth certificate in a safe belonging to his late mother.

The Secretary of State in Kansas at the time, Chris Kobach, had championed a law

that would require people who registered a vote to provide documentary proof of citizenship.

It was called the Safe Secure and Fair Election Act.

And in its brief lifespan before a judge threw it out in 2018,

it prevented 30,000 canzans from registering to vote.

That number includes Wayne Fish, who was one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit

that got the law overturned.

How many of those 30,000 were non-citizens attempting to vote?

The federal judge's ruling says the court was provided with a spreadsheet

of 16 non-citizens who attempted to register to vote between 2013 and 2016.

But even among those 16, there were several administrative errors.

One woman wrongfully registered by the Kansas Department of Vehicles

wrote to the agency, quote,

please put in the record that I am not a citizen, I cannot vote.

She underlined, am not, and cannot vote.

That woman wanted to make it crystal clear,

because attempting to vote in this country as a non-citizen is against the law

and will almost certainly end someone's hope for naturalization.

It could even get them prosecuted or deported.

Kansas's safe act was deemed unconstitutional.

The problem that was supposed to create was deemed,

it was supposedly created to solve, was deemed non-existent.

But now eight years later, this precise brand of long discredited blunt force voter suppression

looks like a golden ticket to Donald Trump,

who's desperate to overcome the deep unpopularity that his party faces under this leadership

and his leadership, the cycle.

The president is going all in on the safe act,

the safeguard American voter eligibility act.

He's so into this bill that he's declared on social media that he will not sign any other bill

before the save act is sent to his desk.

The save act currently up for debate in the Senate, which is in session today,

would implement requirements for voter registration that are stricter than the current standard

in any state except Ohio.

It requires documentary proof of citizenship when registering to vote.

It bans universal mail-in voting, and if you do register by mail,

you also have to visit an election office in person to verify that document again.

If you change party affiliation, it's likely you'd need to present proof again.

If you're in a state which offers same day voting and registration,

you'd have to bring those documents to a voting place.

If you're one of the 69 million women in America who's changed their name because of marriage,

your birth certificate would not be sufficient because the name wouldn't match

and you'd be required to provide yet more documentation, like a passport, if you had one.

But more than 21 million Americans of voting age don't have proof of citizenship readily available

according to the research put out by the Brennan Center for Justice.

There's an exception, by the way, which would allow election officials to sign an affidavit

affirming a voter citizenship even if they lack the paperwork,

but that's yet another administrative burden placed upon election officials

in a bill that's full of new responsibilities and liabilities for them

with no additional funding to support these new requirements.

And this is complicated because we can debate this,

but our country is not built on a citizen's carrying around their paper system.

A passport doesn't have much use within this country's borders,

so unless you need one to go elsewhere, you may go years and decades without needing one.

It's not free to get a passport.

And as I've said on this show before, our problem simply is not non-citizens voting.

What is a problem is citizens not voting.

Midterm turnout hovers around 40%,

for primaries which can make all the difference in a heavily Republican or Democratic district,

it's even lower than that.

So why is the president so obsessed with this effort to make it harder to vote?

I'm not doing it for this reason.

At all, it'll guarantee the midterms, it'll guarantee the midterms.

If you don't get it, big trouble, my opinion.

If you get this, your midterms, and they know it, you got to win the midterms

because if we don't win the midterms, it's just going to be,

I mean, they'll find a reason to impeach me.

I'll get impeached.

Ah, there it is.

Trump himself seems to believe that voter suppression is the only way Republicans can win,

and Republicans winning is the only way he'll avoid a third impeachment.

Because this is a president who is increasingly running out of political solutions to his political problems,

the worst the economy gets, the clearer it becomes that he's got no real plan,

particularly for this war of choice that we're in with Iran,

the lower his approval ratings drop, the more he fixates on the save act.

They're going to vote against you.

Maybe just don't let him vote.

Joining me now is the Michigan Secretary of State,

Jocelyn Benson, the Democratic candidate for the governor of Michigan Secretary Benson.

Good to see you again. I just quoted a story of Wayne Fish from Kansas and the trouble that he had,

and the idea that Kansas has virtually no examples of non-citizens voting.

The statistic I more regularly cite is from your state and Michigan because you audit elections

all the time. You have very similar statistics about non-citizens registering to vote.

Yes, and thank you for having me, Allian, and you're completely accurate focus on

this corruption. This is really is. This is a powerful man who doesn't want to be held accountable.

He's afraid to lose because of his unpopular economic policies that are driving up costs throughout

my state throughout our nation. Instead, what is he trying to do? Silence.

Voters, silence. Make it harder for us to actually hold him accountable.

But we have to be certain that we don't fall for the bait and switch because as you point out in

Michigan, we actually examined the records and meticulously carefully made sure that we could find

anyone who wasn't eligible to vote and was voting. It was infinitesimal, 0.00028 percent.

Very, very, very small, like, handful of people who we simply couldn't verify their eligibility.

And we passed that information to the attorney general. That's how elections work.

You protect people's access to the vote while ensuring we're securing the process.

And what this bill is, this save act is not going to save America at all. It's actually going to

harm our ability to hold our elected officials accountable, including the president in these midterms

at a time where Republicans, Independents and Democrats desperately want a need to be able to say,

hey, you're driving up costs of everything from milk to childcare to health care to housing.

That's not okay. And we can communicate that at the ballot box. But if this save act passes,

it's going to make it a lot more difficult for us to do that. And as the president says,

that's exactly what he wants. So again, you've got the details. We just put it up on the screen

about the number of people in Michigan who are non-citizens who attempt to to register to vote.

It's illegal, by the way, it's illegal everywhere. And because we don't require citizenship

for anything in America, you generally attest to the fact that you're a United States citizen.

And if you lie about that, you're liable for prosecution, which is again, happened in Michigan.

But here's how some Republicans are framing the need for this act. Let's listen and talk about this

on the other side. I mean, who would not have voter ID? Who would not have proof of citizenship?

And the only people who would want not to have that are people that want to cheat.

It's very, very simple. We can't let that happen. Now, here's the thing though, even if you take

the Democrats at their word, even if illegal aliens voting is very rare, then why don't we ban it

anyway? It's not that complicated. You have to have a photo ID to do everything in American society.

Why not to vote? It's ridiculous for them to oppose it. Common sense versus crazy. It's crazy

to say that you should not be a citizen or not have ID to vote.

Okay, so he's conflating a lot of things there. First of all, JD Van says, why don't we ban

non-citizens voting? Noncitizens voting is banned. It's just, it's not a question. It's

banned. It is what it is. And then Mike Johnson saying, why shouldn't you have photo ID to vote?

Totally different question. This is not a discussion about having photo ID to vote.

Lots of Americans have photo ID. The overwhelming majority of Americans have photo ID.

That's a different discussion. This is proof of citizenship in a country where you are not

required to have proof of citizenship to walk around or do do anything.

Yeah, and now, you know, our elections are secure. And the only thing this bill is going to do

is const American citizens more money and time because most Michiganders, for example,

wouldn't be able to use your driver's license or ID that they have to date to vote,

even if they have a real ID. And that's why the politicians that are pushing this proposal

make it sound reasonable, but they're they're lying. They're being insincere. I mean, sure,

it sounds great. You needed to show an ID to board a plane, rent a car, but what they aren't telling

you is that if this bill becomes law, you will not be able to use those IDs, vote.

Driver's license, the ID that the majority of folks have and carry around with them every day,

that will not be acceptable to be able to vote. Right. Even though it is really all we need

as election administrators to verify someone's identity and eligibility. Yeah, and there are five

states, I think, where the driver's license, the enhanced IDs do qualify, but for most people,

even if you have a real ID, it doesn't it doesn't work. What can you do if you become governor?

Can can states do things if the Savak becomes law? Can governors do something about it?

Yes, and this is and look at everything that's happening right now. Governors are the guardrails.

There are Republican governors in some states that would cooperate, would make it harder at the

request of the president for people to have their voices heard at the ballot box, but Democratic

governors, particularly in battleground states like Michigan, can use every tool in our disposal

in particular to fight these demands in our state courts, in our federal courts, and also

enact policies to protect against a lot of the overreach and abusive power that we're seeing

at the federal level. We're already seeing that play out with Democratic governors across the

country standing up to the president and he tends to cower when you do that. And so this really

also underscores the importance of having secretaries to state attorneys general

governors in states throughout the country and particular in battleground states like Michigan

that will stand up to these lives, to this insincere attempt to essentially rig our elections.

Because as president said, he's afraid of the voters and governors in this moment can use our tools

seek recusal on the courts and a number of other things that can actually protect our voters and

citizens. And in many ways these state officials are all we have left to do that.

My great thanks to Donald Trump for saying out loud exactly why he needs to do this because he

doesn't want to get impeached just so everybody's clear on what the motivations are.

Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson always a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for being

with us. Jocelyn Benson is Michigan Secretary of State and she is a Democratic candidate in the

state's gubernatorial race. All right. Coming up, Kristi Know may be out at DHS, but she might not be

out of the woods. Democrats are seeking to hold current and former Trump officials accountable for

the chaos caused around the country by ICE and other federal agencies. And Mark Wayne Mullen,

Trump's pick to replace know-em-it DHS was peppered with tough questions by both Democratic and

Republican senators this week will show you how he did. Plus there's new reporting that Trump wants

to lower the profile of his mass deportation campaign. Do not be fooled. ICE is still operating

and terrorizing American streets. No one knows these stories better than MSNOW's Jacob Soberoff.

He's been covering Trump's immigration policies from the ground level for years. He's going to

join me in a bit with an exciting announcement as well. More Valshi after a quick break.

The war with Iran has entered the fourth week and MSNOW has learned that the Trump

administration is now sending an additional 2,500 Marines and three more warships to the Middle

least. This is in addition to the 2,500 U.S. Marines and three warships that are the administration

separately deployed last week and on top of the tens of thousands of American troops and assets

who are already in the region. 13 U.S. service members have died so far in the war. 232 have

been wounded, including 10 seriously. Overnight, Iran reportedly launched two ballistic missiles

at joint U.S. military base, Diego Garcia. That's according to the Wall Street Journal,

citing multiple U.S. officials. As you can see, that base is located almost 2,500 miles away

from Iran. It's in the middle of the Indian Ocean. Importantly, this marks a significant attempt

by Iran to attack U.S. assets beyond the Middle Eastern region. Just hours ago,

Iranian state media reported that it's Natan's nuclear facility was attacked. That facility is

one of Iran's three main nuclear enrichment facilities. Notably, it's the same facility

that was targeted during last year's U.S. Israeli bombing campaign. President Trump said then,

you'll recall what recall that the facility was, quote, completely and totally obliterated.

It's way in remembered. That's what he said last June. The DNI chief, Tulsi Gabbard and the CIA

director, John Ratcliffe, both stated back then that the site would take years to rebuild.

Join even now from Dubai's MSNOW contributor, Inzamam Rashid. Inzamam, thank you for being with us.

You are very close to, you're in the region where this is all going on.

The Natan's facility, the nuclear facility, about a thousand miles due north from where you are,

what do we know about why and what happened in this attack?

Well, Ali, the big question is, is why bomb it again? Why target it again if it was completely

obliterated back in June? Well, there was a joint operation overnight between the U.S. and Israel

targeting the Natan's facility. Iran suggested that it has been struck. They called them criminal

attacks by the U.S. and Israel, but there's no details about how this attack was specifically

carried out. What specific weapons were used to target this nuclear site? But it seems for now

as well that there's no leakage of radioactive materials reported from this site at the minute,

which is obviously a good sign because if that was the case, then this war, this conflict really

does escalate and takes it to a whole new level, not as if we have been seen enough levels over the

last three weeks. But this is an important uranium enrichment site in Iran around 200 kilometers

from the capital. This is the second time that the Natan site has been targeted during this

war in particular over the last three weeks. The first time there was some structural damage to

some buildings in the vicinity. But we know, Ali, that this has been the key reason for this U.S.

and Israeli attack. This U.S. and Israeli war essentially ever since it began three weeks ago.

They don't want Iran to have any nuclear capabilities. They want to destroy any possibilities of Iran

essentially creating a nuclear bomb. Now, in response, Iran has continued its aggression

to the Gulf countries. Here in the UAE, where I am, they fired a number of ballistic missiles and

drones to this country once again, many of them being intercepted by the UAE defense systems.

And they're continuing to threaten to target hawks, tourist areas as well. And ports like this one

behind me, this is the Jebel Ali port, a huge logistics hub for the UAE, but also is home to a

number of U.S. Navy vessels that came here in apprehension for this conflict. Iran then,

in also an offensive, as you mentioned, Ali, fired two ballistic missiles to the Diego Garcia base,

which is in the middle of the Indian Ocean. It's a U.K. and U.S. military base. The U.K.

defense minister came out and said that this was a reckless attack. But this is calm, just hours

after the U.K. actually gave confirmation to the United States that they could use their

bases around the world to carry out its attacks on Iran. So whilst it's an alarming move by Iran,

it's not a surprising one. I think what was a surprise, though, overnight, in particular,

Ali, was Donald Trump's tone, was Donald Trump's message that he could be winding down in this war,

that he's probably the biggest indication that he's actually given, that he's bored of it,

or that he's fed on that. He wants to step back from this conflict, also saying that the straight

upon moves where 20% of the world's oil passes through will in fact sort itself out. So the

Gulf nations will be pretty frustrated by Donald Trump's comments. They'll be confused as well

because they essentially need him here to get the job done, to get Iran back into its box

essentially. But without him, that's something that just won't be possible. And the Gulf nations,

I think tonight, will be slightly confused about that. Well, they're not alone in that,

and unfortunately, wars don't end just because you get bored with them. Inzaman, thank you for your

excellent reporting. Inzaman Rashid for us in Dubai. All right, coming up, Congresswoman Madeline

Dean, member of the Foreign Affairs Committee, joins me next.

Joining me now is the Democratic Congresswoman, Madeline Dean of Pennsylvania,

Congressman Gwomen Dean serves on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman Gwomen,

good to see you. I was just speaking, I don't know if you heard it. I was having a conversation with

our correspondent, Inzaman Rashid in Dubai, and he very diplomatically said that these

his Gulf allies of ours are getting up this morning a little bit confused about what the point

of this is. They bombed the Natanz facility in Iran that Israel and the US said was destroyed

last June. Kind of weird that we're in this war to do something we apparently did nine months ago.

Welcome morning. Good to be with you. And he has every right to be confused,

unconfused. Our allies are confused. And our enemies are pleased with the passing fancy of

this president. He's so erratic. We can't tell why he chose this war of choice. He never made

the case to the American people. Certainly never came to Congress as required under a constitutional

republic. But he never made the case to the American people as 13 service members have died.

As tens of thousands of members are in the region, as you just reported, 2500 more marines going to

the region, 200 plus service members injured and take a look at the rubble. That is what I think

this administration pays no attention to. People's lives in ruin, the suffering, the rubble,

the schoolgirls who were killed on day one. I can't understand this administration. You have

Christie Hegsett as I see him playing this as a video game. And the president just has everything

as a passing fancy with no consequence, with no understanding of the grave human losses here.

Yeah, I think I really appreciate you bringing this up because one might think if one doesn't

follow the news, these are enemies and people sometimes innocent people die when you when you

bomb. There's just no good reason for that. It's not just the Iranian girls. There's thousands of

people dead in Iran. There's people dead all over the region in our in our allied countries in

Israel. None of which needed to happen because we because no one has articulated why anybody needs to

I including our 13 service members and the more than 200 service members who are injured,

ten of whom are injured, very seriously, for what reason? It hasn't been given and I can tell you

not only has it not been given publicly, it hasn't been given in the classified briefings that

I have sat in on. I have to admit to you what we heard in the classified briefings, I can't

identify much of anything that was classified and there was no straight answer as to the

imminence. In fact, we have heard members of the administration say there was no imminence

as to what the mission was. Is it about nuclear enrichment? Is it about the missiles? Is it about

decapitation? No answers along those lines and very critically. No answers along. What's the end

game? When do we get out? How many more lives will be lost? I'm a little surprised at the lack of

resistance coming from your Republican colleagues, but you are on a committee that's actually directly

related to this. Are your Republican colleagues on the committee saying American lives are being

put on the line for this? There had better be a valid reason why any Americans died in the pursuit

of this thing and more will die. I mean, JD Vance talks about it like it's a video game. He says,

people died. That's what happens. No, they are not saying at least behind closed doors where I am,

they are not saying it. They're not parting company with the president. Again, drained of their

humanity and their constitutional authority. I serve on both foreign affairs. I feel so fortunate

to be on foreign affairs, but I also am on the Appropriations Committee and you know that this

administration has put before us the request for $200 billion more for this excursion as the president

calls it a strike operation. You know, I care a lot about language. Watch the language around this

excursion. All to avoid the use of the word war and I see the Republicans playing along with this

Orwellian nightmare. Yeah, if it's an excursion, you don't need $200 billion for it. Congresswoman,

thank you for being with us, the Democratic Congresswoman, Madeline Dean of Pennsylvania.

All right, coming up, it's no secret that Donald Trump likes to surround himself with yes,

men and women. Looks like it's picked to replace the scandal plague. Kristi Nome at DHS is going to

fit right in. We're going to introduce you to Mark Wayne Mullen, whose only qualification for the

job are that he's a quote, mega warrior and an MMA fighter. On March 2nd of this year,

you told Fox News interview quote, war is ugly. It smells bad. If anybody has ever been there and

been able to smell the war that's happening around you and taste it and feel it in your nostrils

and hear it. It's something you will never forget. So where did you smell war?

Sir, I've just said that this was classified.

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limit off for a minute. Subject to credit approval. Applecart issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake

terms and more at Applecart.com. It is nearly five weeks into a partial government shutdown that's

blocking funds for the Department of Homeland Security and the Trump administration is trying to

reset its controversial immigration crackdown after Christie Knome's scandal plagued stint

as DHS secretary. To replace her president, Trump is nominated this guy, Mark Wayne Mullen,

the junior senator from Oklahoma, whose main qualification for the job is his unwavering

fealty to Trump. That's just the thing these days. Enominating him, Trump boasted that Mullen is

quote, a mega warrior, a former undefeated professional MMA fighter. Now, while that may impress

many of Trump's supporters, there's nothing in Mullen's background to suggest that he's got the

necessary experience to direct America's immigration policy enforcement or to lead the 15 agencies.

You can see some of them here and tens of thousands of employees who work under the DHS umbrella.

In many ways, Mullen is cut from the same cloth as Christie Knome. Like her, Mullen has thrown his

full support behind pretty much every aspect of Trump's aggressive immigration crackdown,

even the parts of it that defy the constitution and legality. He supported federal agents use of

masks and excessive force on the job, which is ensnared immigrants and American citizens alike.

He's defended the killing of two American citizens by federal agents by smearing the names and

reputations of those two victims. He praised the Trump administration's attempt to end birthright

citizenship. He's called for babies born in the United States to undocumented parents to be deported

even though under the law they are American citizens. He was chosen to be the new face

of the exactly same rotten product that Knome was picked to sell to the American people.

At his hearing in front of the Senate Homeland Security Committee on Wednesday, Mullen struck a

softer tone. He assured senators that he would require federal agents to obtain judicial warrants

before making arrests or entering private property. Imagine that. Getting a warrant before you enter

private product. What is that in the constitution? Oh, yeah. That's a low bar. That had actually been

the norm for many years, even under DHS, until Christie Knome decided that it wasn't.

He also expressed regret for making disparaging comments about Alex Prety, one of the two

citizens killed recently by federal agents in Minneapolis, but he stopped short of offering a

direct apology to Prety's family. Mullen's been quick to jump to conclusions about that shooting.

By the way, he called Prety a quote, deranged individual who came in to cause max damage.

I don't have to talk to you more about this because we spent a lot of time talking about Alex

Prety, who he was, what he did and how he got killed that day. Mullen seems to have missed that

episode of Melchie. Mullen addressed the committee members deciding that his political fate was with

exactly the answers that they wanted to hear, but what's even more alarming is what Mullen

shows not to answer. If directed by the president to take an action that would break the law,

would you follow the law or follow the president's direction? The president would never ask me to do that.

Who won the 2020 election? Man, we know that President Joe Biden was sworn into office.

That's not for the last four years. I know you talked about it with one of my colleagues about

polling sites, but these are important discussions and we don't have clarity on what we are expected to see.

Senator, I don't understand what the concern about and forcing immigration at polling places

as anyways because honestly, if you're not a citizen, you shouldn't be voting anyway.

Yeah, non-citizens don't really vote in America. I mean, those were all softball questions and

Mullen still couldn't handle them. Regardless, the Senate Homeland Security Committee did advance

Mullen's nomination on Thursday with one Republican Rand Paul voting against it and one Democrat

John Fetterman voting in favor of Mullen. Let me just get those two guys on and just get them to

switch parties. Be easier. The full Senate can vote for his final confirmation as soon as next week,

but the questions will not end there because after Kristi Nome's ouster, Democrats are feeling

emboldened and in feeling emboldened, they're actually going to do something important with that.

They're seeking to hold officials like Nome accountable for the chaos caused around the country

by ICE and other federal agencies. Top Democrats have referred Kristi Nome to the Department of

Justice this week, accusing her of perjury related to comments that she made at her last appearance

before Congress. Don't hold your breath as to whether the Department of Justice is going to do

anything about this, but they've also pushed the Department of Homeland Security Inspector General

to investigate Corey Lewandowski, Nome's right-hand man regarding allegations of corruption

and mismanagement. A DHS has already opened an internal investigation into Greg Bovino,

who led the aggressive immigration crackdown in Minnesota, but may have ended his career.

All of this should serve as a warning to Mullin and, by the way, everybody else in the Trump cabinet.

Just like Nome, he can deflect questions at a congressional hearing, but in the end,

he will be forced to answer for his actions when he takes the helm at DHS, and if Democrats win

back control of Congress in November, there will be even more of this. They're betting a majority

of voters want federal officials to be held accountable for the abuses that they commit

while serving in the Trump administration. I'm joined now by Molly John Fask,

contributing writer for the New York Times and MS now political analyst and host of the podcast,

Fast Politics. Also joining me, Rick Wilson, co-founder of the Lincoln Project, former Republican

strategist and author of Running Against the Devil, a plot to save America from Trump and the

Democrats from themselves. Hey, thanks to both of you for being here. Rick, I'm going to start with

you because you actually wrote a book called Everything, Trump Touches, Turns To Something,

I can't say on TV. But this is really important for these people who work for Trump to understand,

that when your life turns to crap, the law won't protect you. The Supreme Court's protections that

they extended to Donald Trump or anything he does in office do not apply to Christy Nome or

Mark Wayne Mullen or RFK Jr. or Howard Lutnik or any of these people.

You know, that's exactly right. And one of the things I think that people are missing is,

while there's a presumption that Trump's going to pardon everybody, there's also a chance Trump

drops dead tomorrow and they don't get their partners. These people, especially at DHS,

especially Corrie Lee Wendell's King, Christy Nome, there are multiple credible accusations of

absolutely outrageous acts of corruption, not just this $200 million, Christy Nome, you know,

a set of acts movie. This is a, this is an organization that's going to attract more interest,

not only, you know, look, you saw John Kennedy and other Republicans going at Nome very hard in

that last hearing before she was fired because there's an understanding now that they were using

this as a piggy bank that Lee Wendell, he was handing out contracts in a pay-to-play scheme.

That is the understanding that is emerging every single day. It's totally on-brand for

Lee Wendell's King and he is going to end up being in the hot seat as well. And there's a

chance that Trump doesn't pardon them and they will end up facing criminal charges. And by the way,

I got bad news for them both. There's not going to, they're not going to, they're not going to

get away from not testifying again. They're going to be on the hot seat again. They're going to

ask Oprah over again. Chrissy Nome is going to spend the rest of her political life,

not only the rest of her adult life, dealing with the fallout from the behavior she engaged

in at DHS. So there's a, there's a million things here to unpack Molly. First of all,

they might get pardoned. But you never know what Donald Trump, right? There are lots of people he

doesn't be, doesn't pardon. But what a thing to go through life, right? You're trying to get

through life and be relatively accomplished and then you have to be pardoned in case you're,

your charge or something. To Rick's point, they will be called before Congress. They will be called

before Congress more when Democrats are in charge. And then there's this whole danger of

perjury, right? You say something, then you have to testify for it. And then one day there will

be a Department of Justice that will go after you. Yeah. No, look, I mean, this is not a good

position for Chrissy Nome. And I think it's worth pulling back for a minute and just looking at

Mark Wayne Mullin for a second, which is Mark Wayne Mullin is, is not the Republicans have not

decided that they are on a different, you know, that feel differently about immigration. That's

not what's happening here. They're seeing the polling and they're like, whoa, this is not popular.

They want to look a little different. They want it to look, you know, so everyone's like Steven

Miller, like we could still do it, but just not so loud. And so I think it's important to realize

here, like John Kennedy is not going after Chrissy Nome because he's had a come to Jesus moment.

He was actually mad about I think her shooting her dog. Right. And yes, the dog and also just,

you know, going after her because he sees that this is the way the wind is blowing. That's very

bad news for Chrissy Nome, right? Because she's out now. She doesn't have privilege. And you know,

we already know that Democrats like impeachment is low hanging fruit here. And you could see it's

going to be very popular to impeach her $220 million spent on like little videos. There's no way

that math is math. She had a lot of interesting outfits in there. Rick, I was one of these people

who say, just get rid of these people, vote them out of office. Don't spend your time with impeachment,

move on. But now I'm realizing the impeachment as accountability is kind of critical to stop people

from behaving this way. It really is. It is a matter of corrected behavior that unless we,

unless people out in the world out in the country who have had this catastrophic drop in their

belief in institutions, their belief in government, their belief that there's a set of rules that

applies universally to everybody. Unless we do this, that sense of institutional collapse will

continue. That idea with the people out there in the world think, okay, if I run a, if I run a

traffic light, I'm going to get a ticket. But if Chrissy Nome runs over a bus full of school children,

she walks away and nobody cares. That's since that there are two systems. And as the social

plays back into the Epstein matter as well. But since there are two systems and justice in this

country is not good for our democracy. It is not good for our public. It is corrosive. And so

these impeachments, these investigations and eventual criminal referrals to these for these people

are going to be really important. And I think that no matter who you put in charge of DHS,

it is a broken organization because the real person running DHS is Steven Miller.

Yes. And he is still there. I don't know if he can resist being on TV if they want to change the

look of this thing. But he's still there. Hey, Molly, I was just talking to Madeline Dean,

a congresswoman of Pennsylvania who said, you know, we're confirmed that they're asking for $200

million more dollars for the war that they won't call war. Donald Trump keeps talking about how

it's kind of done, mostly done. Mike Johnson says mostly done. The mission's mostly been accomplished.

They're all, you know, all their leaders are dead. There's nothing more to do. We just bombed

the nuclear plant that I thought we bombed and was a little obliterated last June. What's the 200

billion dollars for? Yeah. It's a good question. Look, Donald Trump has been it's over. It's happening.

It's over. It's happening right now. There's reporting that they're sending troops in. So,

look, when you can't explain why you're going to war, you can't explain. Or that it's on or it's

not on. Right. But if you it's Schrodinger's war. But if you can't explain why you're going,

you can't explain why you're out. Yeah. Right. Yeah. What does success even look like?

Yeah. Regime change sometimes may be no nooks, but they already didn't have nooks. So, I mean,

I just think, look, he got very involved in after Venezuela. Yeah. And it worked for him.

Even though nothing happened, right? Delce Rodriguez. Right. Right. We didn't actually,

it wasn't really regime change. It's the rest of the guy's wife basically. Yeah. And he's in jail.

Yeah. But the question is like, if you have no goals, I mean, it's fee for a peace prize.

It's a fee for peace prize moment for all of us. I mean, Rick, if you're Maduro and you're sitting

in a jail cell in New York and you're wondering, what the hell? Like, what's going on here? What

are you doing? You lost interest in us. You moved to Iran. He does seem to be getting bored with

Iran at this point. But it's a big problem being bored with Iran because they're dead Americans.

There's a whole lot of dead Iranians. They're dead Israelis. There's dead people in the Emirates.

And no one can explain whether it's on off or what's going on.

But let's be very realistic with this $200 million supplemental means, Holly. This is

the funding for the ground more. They understand they're not going to be able to do what

used to go on with both George W. Bush and Barack Obama when we were still in Afghanistan and Iraq,

which is you go for a supplemental every few months, eight billion here, 12 billion there,

30 billion here, six billion there. That's not going to work. They're going to get one bite of the

apple. They're going to spend this $200 million. They're not going to replenish the stocks of

Tomahawks or Patriots. They're going to use this money to fund the ground war. That's what's going

on. Pete had said themselves said, you go to help money to kill bad guys the other day. And this

is the money they're going to use to try to invade Iran. It is madness. $200 billion. Think about

what you can do with all that money. Thanks to both the Amali young fast contributing writer for

the New York Times and Rick Wilson co-founder of the Lincoln Project. We'll be right back.

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New reporting from the Wall Street Journal amid a homeland security shakeup is that President Trump

wants to lower the profile of his deeply unpopular mass deportation program, but make no mistake.

Changing the most notorious names and faces of this brutal crackdown does not change the policy

itself. The real story is not happening in Washington in hearings. It's playing out on the

streets of American cities where our neighbors are still being terrorized every day.

And no one knows these stories better than our own Jacob sober off. Jacob joins me next to talk

about the ground level through line of Donald Trump's anti-immigrant doctrine and to introduce

himself as the host of a brand new MS now show. I'm gonna get you.

What happened here today in Los Angeles, I think, is the worst nightmare for so many people who

live here. And you've got eyes showing up outside of places like schools. It quite literally

is striking fear into the heart of people all throughout this community.

Tom Owen the borders are sent to me yesterday. He did not rule out.

Literally arresting you. Come after me, arrest me. Let's just get it over with.

Tough guy. I don't give it there. You think they'll check it out, but what do you ever arrest you?

Well, you know the expression Trump always chickens out taco.

I can tell you what happens when you see a federalized militarized police force

on the streets of city and people don't want them there. This is what happens.

What brings you out here? Let's walk in. We'll talk.

ICE is not welcome here. The National Guard is not welcome here. Crime is under control.

So what you just with us was federal agents obviously detaining someone outside of their

immigration hearing. Do you believe that that type of enforcement indiscriminate rounding up

that people in some insurance are already happening? If it does happen here as the mayor,

what do you do about it? I'm going to continue to make clear that this is not something that we

stand for as New Yorkers. All right, so we just rolled up on the scene of an operation that's

happening right now. These guys have their lesson ethos out. This has actually happened in real time.

As you can see right here, the window of this car has been smashed in and what people are saying.

Did anybody see it? Did you see it? I got a tear gas in my face and everything. Who you looking at

when it comes to accountability and who should be held accountable here? Yes, I think there will be

accountability. Somebody gave the orders to this. Did they tell you all this that they had sent you

to Texas against the order of a judge? No, they only said we had to go back. Nothing else.

What do you want Donald Trump to know if the president is watching this interview?

Dad, not all of us are criminals.

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