Trump Has Turned Presidential Pardons Into A Hustle

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1:00Good morning everybody. Welcome to Hot Topics. What a weekend. What a Monday and what a weekend. I hope you had a great weekend. Thanks for joining us. It's not even 11 o'clock yet. It's not even noon and I need a nap. We had a great weekend. We're going to talk to you about the weekend. We're going to talk to you about the weekend. We're going to talk to you about the corruption of this administration. We're going to talk about the things that everyone is discussing. The one that was outed last week.

2:13We're going to talk about that. We'll get to Jasmine Crockett and Chris Brown. We're going to talk about the things that everyone is discussing. Let's go everyone. Thank you for joining us. We're going to talk about the things that everyone is discussing. Let's go everyone. We're going to talk about the things that everyone is discussing. Let's go everyone.

3:24We're going to talk about the things that everyone is discussing. Let's go everyone. We need to have these tops of events to keep us focused and keep us aware what's going on. We need to have these tops of events to keep us focused and keep us aware what's going on. Oh my gosh. Can you imagine how phenomenal it was that we had a drape black man, a gay black man come together and express everything there is about what needs to happen.

4:24It was phenomenal and then you add anna Varro into it. We are right on top of it. It was even better than I expected. This is mother and daughter. Take me out. It was fantastic. I'm going to watch a deal for the year. It was an amazing show and it's something we need to encourage us. It was amazing. Oh my god. I love the unlimited. The youthly walked out of this world. Please keep doing this tour. I love it. I love it. It was wonderful. I was at the very first show in New York at the city winery and came all the way from the city winery. The night was like I couldn't have put it into words. I want to see this again and again. It was absolutely fantastic. I think my wife is here. She knows we are in 11 heads. Love you guys. Anybody who hasn't gotten their tickets, get your tickets, it's everything. Okay, everything. They are just mwah. Shush it. And there it was. And so get your tickets as they say. If you want to get them, we'll show you the website later.

5:30Just go to Don Lemon.com. It's easy. Andy, you don't have to show it. Just go to Don Lemon.com and it's right there. So there's still some tickets left for some of the shows. Someone said come to Memphis. We're coming. We're coming. I don't know if it's exactly to Memphis, but we're coming to a city near you. So go and check it out. And then we have some photographs of some of the folks who were there. I think we'll wait and I'll show those at the end of the show. But look, those two ladies, they made their own shirts. And we'll get to the rest of them. They're like, hey, Lemonhead and proud of it. And now they want, they said, that should be part of your merch. So we're going to have to figure out how to do that. But they made their own shirts. And so we'll show you some of it. But we have to get to the news. So thank you all for coming. If you didn't come, sorry you missed out. I told you. We're going to get to some of the reporters that have that are really reporting on this thing that is happening. This is paid a play, paid a pardon, whatever you want to call it. That's happening at this White House. It is outrageous. So I'm going to tell the reporters there because I know they're in the green room. We're going to be a little bit late. I hope you don't mind. Sorry about that because we got a bit of a late start this morning. But we'll get to you in just a moment.

6:30I just want to go through what is happening. Okay. Because as I said before, Donald Trump is supposed to be running our country. Now, I don't know about some of you. But instead everyone around him seems to be asking the same question. And then is that, how do we get paid? Everything is about money. That's apparently because the White House isn't just the seat of American government anymore. It is, honestly, excuse my French. It's a fucking cash register. And it is sickening. I want you to just take a look at these numbers. Okay. This is from Forbes. It's currently estimated here that Donald Trump's fortune is around $6.9 billion. Don Jr., who we're going to be discussing a little bit more shortly, shortly, went from an estimated $50 million to a high as $500 million. Now imagine if that were Obama girls. Imagine it. Let's get him even.

7:35Imagine if that was Hunter Biden, right? We're going to talk. Eric Trump went from roughly $40 million to like $750 million. And that's what we know about, although his crypto link fortune has since fallen substantially from that high. And then there is Baron Trump, the youngest, who's 19 years old, estimated it around $150 million. And then Ivanka Trump remains around $50 million while her husband, Jerry Kushner, has reached billionaire status. So these are estimates and they fluctuate particularly the crypto link fortunes, but they show just how the Oval Office is being used. And guess what that is? That is a grip shop. Did you guys hear the numbers of Mike is working right, Andy? I just want to make sure. Did you guys hear those numbers? Okay. And that is just, that is just since Donald Trump took office this time. How the hell is any of this even allowed? How is it legal? What happened to the Amaluments clause? Seriously, the president of the United States is sitting in the White House.

8:38His family business interests, potentially affected by government policy. People around him are making extraordinary amounts of money. It's all about the money. It's all about the grip when we say that. And then you have these poor groups, these people who are who he has co-opted and they're giving their money to him, sending him donations, campaign donations that ended up going his pay for his legal bills and they're doing the crypto thing. And it's a gift. But here are the bigger numbers. This is from Reuters. They calculated that the Trump family generated at least $2.3 billion in profits from major crypto ventures between Trump's return to the presidency and April of this year. So we're not even currently up to it now in September. World Liberty Financial, the Trump meme coin, American Bitcoin, crypto link businesses carrying the Trump name. And then there's the business of presidential parties. Okay. And so this was, I think, expose it. Look, the presidential party thing. Let me just tell you this. It's not new. People have been reporting on it, but no one is really paying attention or holding them accountable.

9:44But then you get some an entity that's why it's so important for 60 minutes to remain to keep the status that it once had 60 minutes showed us yesterday the full scope of what it calls the pardon economy. And my, I mean, goodness sake. What an economy it is. Their hidden camera investigation found brokers and lobbyists charging enormous amounts of cash of money while claiming that they can use their connections to help get somebody's pardon request in front of Donald Trump. You think that's what this Michael Cohen need a pardon? Is that what he's or is he done? Because all of a sudden he's had this flip. Like a lot of this, you think, oh, these people really support the president. No, they're co-zing up to him because they want pardons or they want favor. That's the whole thing, right? So one undercover operative was told $300,000 could potentially get the job done. Another broker talked about charging $1.5 million and 60 minutes reported that some pardon brokers are charging clients as much as $3 million.

10:44Now, the White House says that the process is rigorous. That money doesn't buy you a pardon and that anyone paying lobbyists thinking it guarantees clemency is wasting their money. Do you believe the White House? Really? Come on. Everything has a price for this White House. Let's not forget that $5,000 that to most people's estimate amounts to buying votes. There is now an entire industry where people are apparently paying extraordinary sums of money reportedly to people who can who claim that they can get them closer to the president and possible pardons and nothing demonstrates how crazy this has become better than rapper Boocy. Okay, you guys know Boocy, right? Bad ass. Boocy bad ass. Boocy wanted a presidential pardon. So he paid a lobbying firm $600,000. Did you guys hear me? $600,000 to help him pursue one. $600,000. And guess what? No pardon. So now Boocy wants $300,000 of his money back.

11:54He's literally fighting for a refund because the pardon that he wanted never came through the lobbying firm disputes that it owes him any of that money and says that it performed extensive work on his behalf. But just think about where we are right now. We're talking about the constitutional power of the president of the United States and surrounding it is a marketplace where people can spend hundreds of thousands even millions of dollars hiring people who claim that they have the connections to help and partners of the only part of a much bigger money story surrounding the Trump family. Okay, because here's another extraordinary story that involves money access and the president's family. Proplica has just received. We're going to talk about about public. But let me just play. I want to play the clip from 60 minutes. We have the 60 minutes clip. We don't have the 60 minutes clip. Okay, we don't have the 60 minutes clip. Okay, well, let's talk about proplica then and then we'll get we'll talk more about Boocy.

12:55Just revealed who helped pay for Donald Trump Jr's wedding. Don Jr married, but Tina Anderson and Bahamas in May. Okay, this was not exactly your cousin's wedding at the holiday in. We're talking a three day celebration private islands, Luxrilla's helicopter, C planes, a five tier wedding cake, all of it fireworks. Now according to Proplica, hundreds of thousands of dollars of those expenses were covered by this guy's Russian oligarch Umar Krimlev. He is a wealthy businessman with close ties to Vladimir Putin. He reportedly paid for expenses, including renting one of the private islands, renting a private island. Now Don Jr's spokesperson has come out to say that Krimlev is Krimlev is simply a personal friend. Proplica says it found no evidence establishing why Krimlev was willing to spend that kind of money on the wedding. But that is exactly why this deserves scrutiny because we are not talking about the wedding of some an- I'm Hannah. I've lost 75 pounds in 20 months with GLP ones plus diet and exercise. On Ro, I've gone from struggling to run a mile to running farther every day.

14:03You can access FDA approved GLP ones online. Get the support you need to reach your weight loss goals. Go to Ro.co slash weight to see if you qualify. I'm a paid row partner, 20% average weight loss in one year in non-diabatics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 3.1% in placebo arm. Our ex only, to stay informed about serious side effects, go to Ro.co slash safety. Don't miss business man. We're talking about the president's son here and we're talking about a foreign oligarch here. We're reportedly spending hundreds of thousands of dollars helping finance his lavish wedding, Don Jr's. So you put all of these stories next to each other and then you begin to understand why questions about money and access keep following this president. A pardon economy where brokers charge hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions while advertising their connections. A family that has made at least $2.3 billion from crypto ventures since Trump returned to office.

15:03Who knows what the numbers are now as we said. So business interest stretching to crypto cryptocurrency licensing real estate and the private investment. And now Putin linked Russian oligarch. Kremlin is now spending hundreds of thousands of dollars helping to pay for the first son's wedding. I want to bring in now Justin L.A.D.'s public reporter who wrote that story and we're thank you very much for your patience sir. I appreciate you being here. This is extraordinary because if you talk about do you saw the 60 minutes report last night I'm sure right with this. Yeah, go ahead. Would you want to say about that? No, no, I saw snippets of it as you said there's been I mean we've been hearing about this pardon economy for the entire second term at this point. So what happened with this? Thank you for that. What happened with this? And how did you guys find out about it because you're saying that they're saying that the Trump Jr. people are saying, oh he's just a friend. They're not confirming or they denying that this happened? No, they're absolutely not denying it. They're not disputing it. No one's actually disputing that this Russian oligarch paid for much of Don Jr's wedding.

16:06I mean how we got into it is my colleagues and I have been covering this whole kind of economy that has sprung up around Donald Trump Jr since the start of his father's second term. But it's mostly been stories about kind of business conflicts of interests and this one's a little bit different. I mean, you know, I think the thing that most people know about Donald Trump Jr's wedding is that President Trump didn't go famously. He said he was busy. And so when we found out as we were reporting in this world that this Russian oligarch and a bunch of other Russians attended, this was a very intimate wedding only around 50 people. And you know, his own father had attended. It struck us as quite interesting. And then we found out that in fact this guy had actually paid for much of it. And this was an incredibly lavish event. And you know, I think the question that we have that we still have even after reporting on this for a long time is why? Why would you know, this is not the family of the bride. This is a, you know, as I said, a Russian oligarch who apparently speaks limited English hasn't known Don Jr for more than a couple of years max.

17:16So, you know, the question that we had and when we talked to people that worked in counterintelligence at FBI, they have the same question. Is he expecting something in return? Like what is the purpose of this? If somebody, you know, as we quoted one former FBI official saying, if somebody pays for your wedding at some point, they're going to owe them something. Yeah, well, it's true. My question is, and I'm asking you to get to give away any sources, but how did you establish that Kremlin was actually putting these bills? Yeah, I mean, so we reviewed records and we, I mean, we spoke to dozens of people in the orbit of Kremlin and also Donald Trump Jr. And then we went, everyone involved. They didn't, you know, very notably didn't dispute it. And we asked about the payments and Donald Trump Jr. Spokesman said, you know, they're friends. They don't have a business relationship. I think the other notable thing here is that Trump Jr. and his wife, Patina, they released dozens and dozens of photos from this event. There's a lengthy wedding video. And the Russian guests, including Umar Kremlin and his entourage are very conspicuously absent from all of the photos that were officially released.

18:29We did track down a photo, a sort of unauthorized photo that one of the other guests released a group picture that I think you showed a couple of minutes ago, in which Kremlin is visible in the background. So, you know, this is something that they were clearly, you know, well, for whatever reason, the Russians are not visible in the official photos that were released. So, Justin, let me ask you, I want to go back to something you said. And we said, Don Jr.'s team is saying that these two are simply friends. But what did you reporting uncover about the history of that relationship? Money, business ties, etc.? Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, so this is, I think we would have been looking at this very differently if this turned out to be like Donald Trump Jr.'s college roommate, somebody's known for decades. I mean, it would still be unusual to have somebody else paying for much of your wedding. But what we found, in fact, what, you know, what everyone involved confirmed is that they've only known each other for a couple of years.

19:29We talked to probably over a dozen people that have worked with Kremlin, who told us consistently that he really speaks very little limited English. Don Trump Jr.'s spokesperson said they met through a mutual hunting friend. So that's sort of all we know. There's no real public evidence that these two have a particularly intimate relationship. So, you know, again, it goes back to the question of why is, you know, why is the wedding being paid for? And I mean, I think the other big thing here is that this is not a guy who's just a random Russian businessman, you know, as you see in the picture on the screen. He is somebody that is very much in Vladimir Putin's circle. He's closely connected to the government. He owes much of his wealth to the government. And so, you know, I think obviously there's a history here. I don't need to remind you of it of Trump and Russia and specifically Trump Jr. and Russia going back to the first campaign.

20:33So, I think seen in that context, it again raises the question of why is this guy offering to pay and why is Donald Trump accepting it? That's my question. I hate to keep asking you the same thing because I know that you have reporting. I get it. But sometimes you know things beyond the reporting that you don't really say. But do we know why or do you know why? I mean, I was willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on the president's son's wedding. I mean, to anybody, doesn't that just seem really weird, renting out an island? Do we know why or is it just like, we don't know? And by the way, it wasn't just the island. It was other major wedding expenses too. One of the ones who mentioned the story is, the wedding was a three day affair on these private islands that are very sort of ultra exclusive, very expensive. I think one of them has been featured in one of the pirates of the Caribbean movies. But one of the other expenses that the Russians covered was this elaborate fireworks show that was, there was a whole barge that came in and did a long fireworks show off the beach on the final night of the three night affair that apparently cost on the order of around $75,000.

21:48But to your question, I wish I had reporting on the why we absolutely know this happened, but we do not know why. And we are, we got to the point where we, you know, we went to them. Essentially all that they said both sides was these two men are friends. And they, you know, of course, we asked why this is not even again. Donald Trump Jr., as you mentioned, is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. He can afford even a very expensive wedding. So why did this happen? We genuinely don't know, but we thought this was at the point where we had to put this out there and, you know, hope that maybe somebody out there knows. And if they do, please, please get in touch. My email is on the story. Okay, I'm going to ask you again. I don't know if I'm asking you a pretty similar questions in different ways, but did you, did you find any evidence at all? You said no one, but is there any evidence at all that Kremlin wanted anything from Don Jr., the Trump family or the administration in return?

22:51Because, you know, we're talking about Boussi and the pardoned. I mean, you don't have to say it explicitly, but if you are lending your resources, I don't know even know if you have to say it. Maybe it's like this is in reserve for whatever. I mean, look, I think so to directly answer the question, we, we do not know, but what we do know is that Kremlin, for example, he's sanctioned by the government of Ukraine because he's, because of how close he is to Putin. He, you know, obviously the Russian government has a lot of things that they want from the Trump administration and obviously Don Trump Jr., even though he's not an official member of the administration is an incredibly influential figure in the administration, influential figure in the kind of mega movement more broadly. I mean, for example, you know, famously JD Vance has credited Don Jr. with being the reason that Vance was selected to be vice president. So, we don't know, but we do know that Kremlin is somebody that is in Putin's circle. Kremlin, for what it's worth, what his spokesperson told us is he does not talk politics with Don Jr. or any of his American friends. That's what they told us.

24:07And to be clear, we have no, we don't know what these two men have discussed. But, but no one has given a, I mean, I was going to say no one's given a credible explanation. No one's actually given any explanation for why this happened. They just simply wouldn't answer those questions. And I mean, I'm curious, I don't know, have you heard of anything like this? I've never heard of a third party paying for somebody's wedding, especially somebody that you met, you know, in the last couple of years. The only thing I've heard of that's as similar to this and is not nearly this severe is talk show hosts doing, you know, brand deals with people, you know, in the network gets mad and they have to answer to it. But I've never heard of anything like this. That was my question to you. And since you've been doing your reporting or in your research, have you found anything like this from any administration? I think we said the most corrupt administration ever or something. Maybe we put a question mark, but I don't know if we can question mark with that. Well, look, I mean, obviously, like Hunter Biden was, it is true that Hunter Biden was, you know, getting jobs from, you know, Ukrainian national gas company guy. I think the, that is different than this.

25:22But honestly, the question, not nearly this much money and when I spoke to him, I interviewed him and he said he got those jobs because he was qualified for them. And he didn't, he admitted to getting those jobs and he said he sure his name helped, but at least he said, now this is according to him, that he was qualified for these positions because of his experience, but it is not nearly in the billions of dollars like the Trumps are. No, absolutely, this is, I mean, apart from this wedding thing, the Trump stuff with the crypto, especially is on a completely different order of magnitude. On the wedding case, the closest analog we found was something I'd never even heard of, which was involved Billy Carter, Jimmy Carter's brother, taking a couple hundred thousand dollars, I believe it was from the Libyans, from Gaddafi in the late 70s. And that became a huge scandal that I believe ended with, with Billy Carter having to register as a foreign agent for Libya. There's an interesting Wikipedia article about this, but that's the closest I could find to something that was sort of even vaguely analogous to this.

26:27We talked to numerous, both Republican and Democratic, former FBI counterintelligence officials, and they said that if they were in the government and they heard something about something like this or they heard this was going to happen, it would have been, you know, a five alarm fire, they would have been going to the family member of the president and essentially warning them. As a counterintelligence matter, you should be very, very careful and basically not do this. And if you do do it, you should be aware that this may be about something more than the generosity of your recently made friend. Listen, Justin, you're a young man. So I remember the Carter administration and that was a big deal, but even bigger deal. I mean, this times we were so naive then. I mean, everything was so much simpler. Maybe I'm romanticizing, but the big scandal was Billy Beer. When Billy was Jimmy Carter's brother established a beer and eventually went to fun to didn't last long, but they were like, oh my God, I can't believe the president's brother has a beer.

27:34But look at what we have now morphed into what is happening with the Trump administration. And then Hunter Biden was nothing. Billy Beer was nothing, as you said, in magnitude, compared to magnitude to this. This is ridiculous. Yeah, and look, I think the context here and what we've been reporting on all year is, as I mentioned, there's this whole economy that has sprung up around Don Jr. Eric Trump is the one running the Trump organization doing the kind of skyscraper deals around the world. But Don Jr. himself has been on a tour around the world meeting with foreign businessmen, foreign leaders. It's something that we've been reporting on that's part of how we got into this story that is actually not well understood. So I think that there's been a lot of reporting about Don Jr. and the crypto stuff, some of the public companies like Polymarket, Colchie that Don Jr. is involved in. But we know about that stuff because those companies are either public or very high profile.

28:34So this story and some of the other reporting we've done, and other good journalists have done, has convinced me that I think this is really a kind of type of iceberg situation. There's a lot going on that we just do not know about yet. Okay, so here's a, this is, I've asked you the million dollar questions. This is a billion dollar question, okay, Justin. So we know who Krimlev is. You've explained that to us, but just how close are his ties to Vladimir Putin? It's a good question. So I think the most striking thing is that literally two days before, so this wedding was held in the Bahamas on these islands in back in May. And two days before Krimlev and his entourage show up at the wedding, he was actually traveling in China as part of Putin's official delegation to China. Putin was also in China. Krimlev was interviewed by Chinese state media. It's published online. They describe him as a member of Putin's official delegation.

29:41So that was, again, this is 48, 72 hours before he shows up at Don Dune, which by the way, other guests, very important people like Jared Kushner, who's obviously doing, leading the Russia Ukraine negotiations for the administration. In terms of Krimlev, he's also gotten several awards from Putin. There's a footage of him in April about six weeks before the wedding getting a, getting a significant award from Putin. And, you know, as I mentioned, he was somebody that was a complete unknown 10, 15 years ago. He was a small time boxing promoter in Russia. He's become this super wealthy oligarch because of the direct intervention of Putin. For example, there was another oligarch in Russia who owned the largest car dealership in the country. Good lord. That guy fell out of favor with the government. The car dealership company. It's called Rolf was seized by the government was nationalized. And then shortly after that, they announced this is now owned by Umar Krimlev.

30:47So he owns this car dealership company. He's the dominant figure in sports betting in Russia, again, granted by the Russian government. So he owes his whole fortune to the Russian government and has very close ties to members of the Russian security services. It's obviously from the outside. I can't say that he's in the absolute inner circle of Putin, but he is definitely close to him. He's not a, he's not just some random Russian businessman who happens to like hunting. Yeah, well, you see them together. We've got proof that there's pictures of them together all over over many years. Yeah. And again, he's sanctioned by the government of Ukraine, not by the United States, but sanctioned by the government of Ukraine on this basis. Yeah, I can't imagine. I mean, look, it's people say this every time, Justin, can you imagine if Obama did this? Can you imagine it Biden? This can you imagine of Kamaheir's did this Fox News would be going crazy.

31:50Donald Trump would be talking about the corrupt liberals or the Biden crime family. This is a Trump crime family. It appears to are, you know, by the definition of Donald Trump and the administration itself. Justin Elliott, oh, by the way, and if you can put that wedding picture back up, the big one, the thing that I want you guys to investigate Justin, if you can, or maybe we can investigate it here on the down London show is just the diversity in that photo. The racial diversity. Look at how diverse it is. Come on. That is a white people polluted if I've ever seen one. So, yeah, although they do have Robert Smith, the I see. The billionaire who I believe was, I guess he wasn't pardoned in the first Trump term, but he became close to some figures in the Trump administration and some of his legal problems kind of went away. Well, there you go. That's very talk about. Boosey. Maybe he's interesting group. Yeah, except he got his, yeah, allegedly. Thank you, Justin Elliott from Pope Public, a reporter. We appreciate it. Okay, come back.

32:58Thank you. Great work. All right. We appreciate it. Thank you so much. Okay. So as we are doing this, likened thumbs up again at effects the algorithm or people become aware of our conversation, our channel. And that's very important to us. So have you hit the thumbs up yet? If you have not, please do it. Now let's talk about the story that, oh my gosh, I can't get away from it on social media and people talking about it. This Lindsey Clancy Black Jurer thing has, I mean, it's like, it's caught fire, really. Like somebody poured gasoline on it. And that was none other than the juror who out at the black man. Okay. And now everybody has an opinion about it. Everyone is doing deep dives on it on social media and also on traditional media as well. We're going to talk about that. Should the black juror, black man, the lone black dissent, black man. The lone black dissent and all of the others. Should he be put is he on trial? What's going on? We'll discuss a word from our sponsors. This episode is sponsored by Better Health. Now people ask me sometimes, how do you turn it off? And the answer is, I don't always, especially when my work is like right here on my phone. I'm always picking it up. I'm not the only one I know. I spend hours every day talking about some pretty heavy stuff, politics, violence, people losing people they love. And then the show ends and the cameras go off. And you're supposed to be

34:14supposed to just move on with your day. But I've gotten better at recognizing that you have to take care of what's going on in your life, especially up here too, right? And that's why I think therapy can be so important. Sometimes you need somebody who isn't your spouse, your family, your friend, or somebody you work with somebody whose job it is to listen and help you work through your own stuff. And that's where Better Health comes in. Better Health makes therapy accessible online. And they can match you with your family. And that's where Better Health comes in. Better Health makes therapy accessible online. And they can match you with your family. So they license therapists based on what you need. And if you, if the first therapist isn't right for you, you can switch it anytime. No questions asked. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHealth.com slash Don Lemon. That's better H-E-L-P.com slash Don Lemon. Okay. Thank you very much. Talking to the producers here. All right. Thank you very much. So let's talk about it. And I want you guys in the chat. Please in the chat because I know you're going to want to talk about this. This is a story that I was hot on today because this is all I've been able to see. Can somebody explain to me something to me? Okay. Seriously. You guys are

35:14explaining this to me. I know how some ladies feel about Lindsey Clancy. I know how others feel about Lindsey Clancy. But people are really speaking their minds now. Why is the lone black man in Lindsey Clancy's case now untrial? Why is that seriously? Anybody explain to me? So because I thought about it. What would I've been covering most of this summer? And that is the Nolan Wells case. And I know that sounds weird to compare the two. But I've wondered in the Nolan Wells case. How is it that the people who are involved in this have somehow twisted this into making some of the people, not all the people, making Nolan Wells mom, the person who's being put on trial, at least in the court of public opinion, digging into her background, trying to get her fired. Like, why? What's going on here? And so why is you may not like what this juror did?

36:14But why is the lone black man juror all of a sudden the person who did their civic duty again, agree with him or not? Why is he the one who's being put on trial? Can you guys riddle me that? Answer me. And some people may get ticked off by this conversation. But I want to know because I thought Lindsey Clancy was the defendant in this. I thought the jurors job was to sit in that courtroom. Listen for weeks, evidence, deliberate, and then make up their own minds. Their own minds, not to be co-opted by anyone else, but to decide from the evidence how they feel. Well, apparently not. Because I want you to take a look at this at this. This is Jura Paula Devlin. She's speaking to Gail King over on the CBS. And here's what she revealed and watch the gasp from Gail. Nine women, three men. What was the age range? What was the racial makeup? I haven't heard any of that. What was it?

37:1470 in 70 ish to 22. And one person of color and then everybody else was white. A lot of the jurors had children. One person of color was a person of color, a woman or a man. A man. Is a holdout juror, a person, a black man? Yes. A black man is a holdout juror? Yes. Well, I have to sit with that for just a second. Was there. Was there any specific evidence that swayed you? Or and I'm very curious about the evidence that he was opposed to? Let's talk about the evidence for you first. I think Dr. Resnick, his testimony about altruistic filicide was really impactful because all throughout the trial we had all the witnesses there had been nothing but good said about Lindsey and how amazing of a mother she was and how much she loved her children.

38:26Okay, so let's talk about that. Someone I said when Gail had to gasp, first of all, it was a natural reaction for Gail. I do like her authenticity but it was interesting. That she reacted that way. Would you have reacted that way? Did you gasp when you when you heard it was a black man? Did you have to sit with it? Or you surprised by it? A lot of people are weighing in on it. So the second that one juror refuses to go along with the 11 other suddenly everybody others and everybody wants to investigate him. Okay, let me know what you think about that, and then we learned something else that he was the only black person on that jury. Now does being the only black person automatically make him right? No, of course not. That's not it. And the thing is we've forgotten nuance in these things. We have forgotten how to have a debate. We've forgotten how to hold more than one thing in our minds that you can disagree or agree with a decision that someone makes and then discuss why this man may have disagreed.

39:40That's his right. If he doesn't like it, you may not like it. Does it mean that his reasoning can't be questioned? Of course it doesn't. But ask yourself this, why are the hell? Why are we digging through this man's entire life? Because he casts a vote that people didn't like. His family gets contacted. No, I don't know everybody's like, but he's got this. What about the rent? What about the eviction? What about the domestic violence? That's all bad if it is true, but it is irrelevant. And I'm sure other members of the jury are not squeaky clean. They're not saints. They're not holier than now. No one is expecting jurors to be holier than now. So why are you putting his information out? The reporters investigate his housing situation. They dig up old domestic violence allegations, including a criminal case that was ultimately dismissed at an active restraining order. And then their NBC 10 is out of Boston, right? It's their area that they cover. They even say it's reporter attempted to visit his home.

40:48Now hold on here. He was a juror. The man wasn't running for governor. He wasn't asking to become a celebrity. He didn't go volunteer. You know, they pictures. They call you and say you got to come do jury duty. It's not something that most people want to do. He didn't call a press conference. The government summoned this man for jury duty and told him listen to the evidence, follow the judges instructions, reach your own conclusion. And when his conclusion didn't match everybody else's. Well, guess what? People got mad. Now this story, this black juror was revealed last week, but I'm telling you it is blowing up and everyone has an opinion. The reporting has changed. By the way, it's also gone from an all honesty because we were doing it the summer. We did the Nolan well story because we thought it was an important story. We also knew that Clancy was going on an important story. But there was a two different worlds thing happening here. Black folks knew about Nolan Wells. White folks pretty much. I'm generalizing you know that knew about Lindsey Clancy. That's what they were discussing.

42:02Quite frankly, I didn't find out about it until we were halfway through the summer talking about Nolan Wells. I'm like, oh, there's a Clancy trial. Let me pay attention to it. But now it has gone outside of that. It has reached a new level of prominence in the zeitgeist. By the time you get to a place where Oprah is discussing you, you know, you have reached a point where everybody pretty much is talking about this. And by the way, not everybody agrees. With what is happening here, but this is from Oprah watch. And the other thing that I would just be remiss to not say is I hope this never happens again. We know statistically it really will. It will. I want us to have the same passion for people who don't look like Lindsay. Who don't have her same access. And education, her melanin, her privilege.

43:05There are women of color sitting around this country in prisons for the same thing that we've never heard of. And I just want to remind us to have the pink shirts and the energy for them as well. Okay. There's a another clip where there's a lady who actually disagrees in that crowd. There's an Oprah clip where she says, look, I disagree with most of you here. I think that she should go to jail. And it appears to be a brown woman of color of some sort. But there is a much different feeling again, generally, about how people feel about this. This is the first time that I have seen the manosphere. And black folks, black men.

44:08And a lot of black women. The first time that I've seen them come together and actually agree on certain things. So I'm sorry. Like, listen, ma'am, I think that that lady is right. Okay, you should still have the same energy for everybody. But think about what are we doing here? What are we doing here? Because you have a room full of people who are plotting a conversation about mothers who kill their children. I mean, sort of in my estimation, like somebody announced a scholarship program. And my reporting on this last week where I said, can we think about the children here, the real victims of the children? These are dead children. Before we get to race, before we get to pink shirts, people who are outside the courthouse, before we get to who deserves more sympathy. Can somebody please remember the children? Because somewhere along the way, this conversation has become so warped that the person who kills a child risks becoming the emotional center of the story.

45:11While the dead child or children become a footnote. And everybody should be uncomfortable about that. So there is a legitimate question that is buried underneath all of this. If America is going to talk about post-partamental illness, diminished responsibility, rehabilitation and compassion, when the accused is a white suburban mother with means, then yes, we absolutely should ask whether black women and other women of color receive that very same understanding from the courts, the media and the public. That is a conversation that is worth having. But we know that that conversation has not been had. And as we have reported to you, one of the first things that I reported was that what if Lindsey Clancy was black? And we had a black Lindsey Clancy, so to speak, very similar story. And there are others that we are finding out that have been being revealed now.

46:16That she got two life sentences for something that is very similar and the same judge would not allow her mental health history to be brought up in court in her trial. Now she's getting a new trial. So back to these jurors now because the other jurors say that he acknowledged having reasonable doubt. But losing weight can become a full-time job if you let it. What am I eating? Did I work out? Am I making progress? Why did the scale go up? And after a while, all that thinking about it can be exhausting. That's why I like the idea of having actual support instead of trying to figure everything out by yourself. Weight loss by hymns offers access to FDA-approved GLP1 medications, including the Wigoby Pill and Wigoby Pin. With Wigoby at hymns, you can lose up to 20% of your body weight when combined with diet and exercise. It helps regulate your appetite, eat less, and keep weight off. And the Wigoby Pill gives you a no-needle option. Everything happens online. A licensed provider determines if treatment is right for you and if prescribed, your medication is delivered right to your door.

47:23No insurance necessary. You also get access to 24-hour messaging with your care team plus nutrition and lifestyle support to help you stay on track. Ready to reach your goals? Visit hymns.com slash Don Lemon to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you. That's h-i-m-s dot com slash Don Lemon. hymns.com slash Don Lemon. Now, weight loss by hymns is not available in all 50 states. Wigoby is the registered trademark of NOVO Nordstick AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information, Wigoby clinical study information and restrictions, visit hymns.com. Still, wouldn't vote to find Clancy not guilty by reason of insanity. That is a serious issue and they clearly believed that he wasn't properly applying the law. But do they get to decide that? And then there's a big part that everybody seems to have forgotten. The judge, again, heard that argument. Clancy's lawyer asked the judge to investigate the holdout, Judge William Sullivan.

48:27He declined, saying the jury's note did not establish this juror was refusing to follow the law. So the judge did not remove him. So they couldn't reach a unanimous verdict. And that is what you call a hung jury. That's not some glitch in the American Justice System. That is the American Justice System, the American jury system. That's how it works. A jury of your peers and whatever they decide, that is it. If they can't decide, that's it as well. So sometimes one person says no. And that's why we have 12 jurors instead of 11 jurors and a decorative house plan or whatever it might be. And I'm sorry, but there is something I think deeply uncomfortable here. About watching 11 people emerge from that courtroom. Go on television, describe the loan holdout as arrogant and then reveal that he's the only black juror and then watch a spotlight turn from the woman who actually killed her three children or the children themselves.

49:27Turn onto the black guy who wouldn't vote the way that everybody wanted him to vote. Because we're not debating Lindsey Clancy now. We're debating him. What does he have to do with that? Everybody except whether we are, except whether we, we are comfortable with the jury system where one person is actually allowed to disagree. Look, that's what we should do. And here's a dangerous precedent here. If serving on a high profile jury means that voting the wrong way gets journalists digging through your court records, contacting your relatives and showing up at your house, who the hell is going to want to serve on a jury? Would you want to serve on a jury if you didn't agree that people are going to expose you? So that should come with a new warning, reach your own verdict, but make sure that social media cable news and other 11 jurors approve of it. That's not how our justice system is supposed to work.

50:31Disagree with this man. Question is reasoning. Question whether he properly understood reasonable doubt. There's a legitimate, legitimate evidence that he lied during jury selection. Okay, if that is, then investigate that through the proper legal process. But please stop pretending that he is the defendant here. Because Lindsey Clancy did kill these beautiful babies. Korra Dawson and Callan. She did. I'm not done with this story either. And I'm going to take you through the weekend first of word from our sponsors. You know, we check numbers all day, all day long. I'm sure you do. How many steps did I take? What's my heart rate? How much did I sleep? Some of us check our bank accounts more often than we probably should. And I talk about polling numbers a lot, all kinds of things, statistics, everything. But when was the last time you checked your blood pressure? Because here is the problem with that. High blood pressure often doesn't make you feel any different. You can feel perfectly fine and have no idea what your numbers are.

51:34And that's why 120 light, this caught my attention. They have a simple 14 day experiment. Check your blood pressure, drink 120 life once a day, keep checking your numbers and see what happens for yourself. I like that. You don't have to guess. You don't have to anything. You just measure, right? Go to 120life.com. That's 120 LIFE.com and use my code, which is Don, D-O-N, for 20% off. Try it, risk free for two weeks. And if your blood pressure doesn't come down, you get a full refund. That's 120life.com and the code is Don, women. These statements have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Always check with your doctor. Okay, and we are back. Thank you so much. We appreciate our sponsors because they keep us powered around here at the Dalmatian. So thank you very much. 120life and all of our sponsors. Okay, so here's the thing that I want to talk about. We talked about Boosey at the top of the show a little bit.

52:35And then we moved into what's happening with Don Jr.'s wedding with Boosey saying he paid money because $600,000 is on 60 minutes last night. He paid money so that he could at least have a chance, according to the reports, at least have a chance of getting a pardon. As it turns out, he says that did not work. Now he wants $300,000 of his money back. Guess what? The twist, in this case, that we've been discussing the Lindsey Clancy case, her representatives have now asked Donald Trump for a pardon. And this is Donald Trump's response. Lindsey Clancy's attorney last week asked you to pardon her. Is that under consideration? I know. It's a very sad situation. I certainly heard that. But it's looking to be very sad. There is no winner there. There's no winner no matter what you do. Three children are dead. No, I don't know. But it's actually a state situation, not a federal. He's asking you to call the prosecutor in the state. What you do that?

53:36I appreciate that it goes that way. But I need to go to turn. I've heard from other people who are very good at dirty. I hope they could work it out. That's something they have to work out. There is no win there. Liberty Clancy's attorney last week. That's the reason. There is no win there. Well, that's one thing that he's right about. But they're asking him to call the prosecutor. And in some cases, that could make a difference. That could make a difference. That's how big this story has gotten. But I want to get back to that juror because I look, if you guys, you let me know if you've seen social media, where people are discussing this and in the way that we're talking about it. How did the one person who, one of the people who had nothing to do with this, didn't unalive anybody, just voted in the way that he thought, the alone black man saying, I'm not convinced,

54:36is that's enough to unleash this kind of scrutiny. Maybe the biggest question coming out of this mistrial isn't, what's wrong with that juror? Maybe it's why are we so mad that he dared to disagree? Now, I want to play this first because this is a black woman who is stating how she feels. And she makes, she says something about one of the jurors that I want to make sure to let you know that is her reporting. But let's, let's play it here it is. I mind my how the plot thickens. Everyone is busy digging into the past of and creating a narrative for the whole doubt juror. Everybody's clotted in holes and charged about Miss Kelly for rena. You know Kelly. She's the juror who spoke out on the whole doubt juror and said that he had the hardest time getting over the fact that Lindsey viciously killed our children. Pat comment in and of itself, but that's not why we're here and that's not why we're here.

55:39Gee, I wonder why O.Y. is no one talking about Kelly's charges. Her assault and battery charges mind you. I mean, gosh, I would think that would be all anyone could talk about. You know, such as so important to dig into the past of the jurors. That's okay. That's why I'm here. Because I know you would want everything to stay there for all the jurors, right? Before I go, I just have another quick question for Kelly. Kelly, did you allegedly conceal your antiparsecution bias and fail to disclose your deep involvement in the antiparsecution social media? During the part when they ask you, are you aware of any bias prejudice that will prevent you from deciding this case fairly and impartially? It's so crazy how more people aren't talking about this. Especially considering how important it seems to bring up the jurors best. Rather than not, they can be impartial. Beard, right? Hmm. So, there you go.

56:42But why is it about him? I'm just saying. And you know, men are a certain way about this. In general, generalizing not all men, and especially black men and black women. Now, this is, I believe this is one of the man-a-spear guys who, as a word, about what's happening here, including all the ladies who are in pink shirts, who are outside of that courtroom. Black men. I'm talking to you. I didn't stutter. I just want to welcome you to the party. That white men have been putting up with for like the last five or six years. You are now hated by white, liberal women. You guys are now hated. You were their top priority. But after the Lindsey Clancy case, you are hated. So I just want to welcome you to the party. Take a seat, guys. Take a seat with us. Take a seat with all the white men, because now you are grouped with us. All because you did what was right. You did exactly what needed to be done.

57:43Tell them white women to shut up and sit down in that jury room, and you took care of business. And you at least gave us a chance for justice with them kids. A chance for justice for them kids. And I want to salute you for that. I did a video yesterday, but then I thought to myself, it is now your turn. You are adjourned joining the party with the white men. Hate it by liberal women. Hate it by white liberal women. You are not the most popular. I just want to let you know, but welcome to the party. We accept you. So as I said in the beginning, some of the things that we report to you may not like. Now that guy people think is hyperbolic. He's a, you know, on, you know, kind of a fringe there. But I'm hearing that from lots of others. I'm hearing that from a lot of people who are not so French. That same sentiment. And I'm talking about the conversation that we are having here. Whether you want to admit it or not. Whether you agree with it or not.

58:44It's not for other people to bully someone into feeling or voting, so to speak, a certain way. When they are on a jury, they get to decide that on their own. Now, let me just talk about the conversations that I've been having with people who are extremely informed. Many of them legal minds. Women. This is a show about honesty. And so a legal expert that I know, who is a woman, says white folks don't care about black folks. But these black men popped off about this case, wouldn't think differently about it if it was a black woman either. And neither of those things have anything to do with how wrong-headed it is to say this black male juror was doing the right thing refusing to apply the law. And the highlight is race as the reason. Like leave our entire race out of it. The folks saying that are not thinking clearly. And I'd never want them on a jury. Right? And so, or on our enormous platform here, the Don Lemon platform.

59:47That's one person who is speaking out. Here's the other person who is a legal mind and is also one of my black confidence. And I said, why is it in general that black folks are not going along with this Lindsey Clancy thing? And she says, I think because they are intimately familiar with the inequities of the system. And they know how difficult being the mother to black children is. If this were a black woman, she'd be in prison. In fact, the same judge would let the mental health, wouldn't let the mental health info into a trial. And a trial, and that black woman was convicted. The appellate court overturned the conviction and she is being retried with the mental health records coming in. She says, it's the OJ effect. And then she says again, because she is a legal mind, I completely understand the grounds for acquittal. But like only because of my, likely only because of my legal background.

1:00:47So those folks who are in the medical field who say they understand this, that's why they understand the feeling. Those who are in the legal field, they understand it because they have a legal mind. They've gone to law school. But most people are lay people. And they just look at the world in a way that is, that everybody receives it without that information. And they come to a conclusion about how they feel and what's fair and what's not. And so this story to me really hit the zeitgeist and it's very interesting because I've never seen, I rarely see, the two sides sort of come together at least politically or race wise around such an unusual issue. You tell me what you think. So that's how we discuss it here. I see you guys in the chat now saying she's guilty. Someone said to it, they want to bring Monique in. We'll bring Monique on to talk about it.

1:01:47But some folks are saying she's guilty. Others are saying, oh, we can't, you know, we need to make room for women in mental health. You can do, look, two things can be possible. That we make room and we take care of women's mental health and medical issues in their treatment in the medical field, whether it is for physical health or physical health. But we can also have people face justice for the horrible things that they do. We can do both of those. It's not exclusive. So let me know what you feel, how you feel about that. I want to say again, if you, thank you for listening. If you miss this weekend, you missed it. Okay. And better get ready. Where are we next weekend? I think we're in Charlotte this coming weekend. So this is some of this is some of the pictures from our thing this weekend. Check it out. These ladies put their own shirts, made their own shirts.

1:02:48Like we used to do back in the day, cut them up with the scissors or whatever did their own imprinting. And it says lemon heads and proud of it. I'm a lemon head and I'm proud of it. And so we're going to try to get those in the merch store. And then there's some other, uh, photo, and let's go through some of the photographs. That's Tim at the merch store with some ladies out in. I think that was Orlando right there in the merch store. Keep going. That was Orlando. Let's see. Was that Orlando? No, that was Port Lauderdale. This one. Great. Okay. Keep going. I'm not exactly sure where that one is, but anyway, everybody had their lemon merch on and they were happy to see us keep scrolling through Andy. So listen, you got to get your tickets. Look at this. Such a beautiful evening. Both of them. And it was our first weekend. So we were very excited about the turnout. We were very excited about how amazing it was how enthusiastic people were. And a Navarro was our special guest in Fort Lauderdale. Anna came in. We had a few cocktails in the green room.

1:03:48And then we talked about some really great stuff. And then Maxwell Frost, the congressman, from Florida, was our special guest in Orlando. And we had a great time with him. He made us aware and formed us about many issues that affect voters all over the country, not just in Florida. Okay. And by the way, I mentioned the merch store. Right. I'm going to show you some stuff. But that's what that's what Anna Navarro. And that's, you know, some other stuff. Okay. So I want to talk about what else is happening. I just want to make sure that we have everything in here. All right. So you're informed now. Right. So you know what we're doing. If you want anything about sugar, go to Don Lemon.com. Okay. Don Lemon.com. Don Lemon.com. And if you want to buy your deal and deal tickets, they're right there at the top of the website. Okay. So just click on deal and deal. And you'll see someone said come to Memphis. We're coming to a city near you everywhere. Right. So go check it out. Come to the nearest city. It may not be the exact city that you want. But we started in Fort Lauderdale and then we in Orlando. And then let's see. Oh, this is St. Petersburg. I thought we were in Charlotte next weekend. Is that not on there? Is that wrong?

1:04:54It's the for you. That's right at the top. 19. Is that the top is. Oh, that's the next one. Okay. Got it. So you moved the other one out of the way. That's why I missed it. Okay. So it's in Charlotte. Thank you, Andy, for that. So go check it out. Get your tickets. All right. And back out of Don Lemon.com. Go back to Don Lemon.com and then hit the close button and there you will see it. You can go to our YouTube page and become a member. Memberships are extremely reasonable. If you hit the subscribe button, it is free. Okay. Make sure you subscribe. But our reasonable. Our memberships are reasonable. So go check it out. You two can be part of the Lemon Nation. And then back out of that. Make sure you sign up for a lucky Lemon 7 newsletter that's usually out in the seven AM hour. But for me, I did not hit send this morning because I wanted to do some stuff. But seven things you need to know before you start your day. And that is a lucky Lemon 7 newsletter. It is over on the sub stack. You can put your phone up there and get the QR code. And it'll take you right there. Also go check out our merch store. Tim is Tim is our head of merch sales. And he wanted people to know about. I should have worn this today. But go check out. We got some new stuff in the merch store, including we got black t-shirts. We have old people be known hats. Look at that. Head to show rugby shirt.

1:05:58We got new tumblers, new sweatshirts and everything, including. There you go. All the stuff. But see that. Check this one out. I'm going to wear this one this week. And then it seems like people want people are asking about this one. And this is, you know, the arrest photo. This is not a mug shop. But that's where they're making it look like. So we have something including this hat. Just so you know. See the hats as lemon lie. It's very subtle. And we have the black version of this as well. Okay, so go check it out. Be informed about being inundated. We're going to see back here. We're going to talk about Jasmine Crockett and Chris Brown. And what is going on? How did you feel about that? That's also going around social media and the zeitgeist. What is Jasmine Crockett doing? Do you agree with it? Her giving a commendation. So to speak to Chris Bount. Also people don't mention she did the same thing for us. Or over the weekend. How do you feel about that? Okay. So be informed about being inundated until I see you back here at 5 p.m. Eastern time here on the down the down the down the down the down the down the down the down until then turn the TV off. Thanks for watching everybody. I appreciate you. Make sure you like, subscribe and turn on notifications so you don't miss anything.

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