US Half Champs Chaos, USATF Indoor Surprises, and the Enhanced Games Debate

0:00Hello, relay community. This is Lindsay Heine and today on the episode we've got Peter Bromka and Erica Kemp. That's your regular three these days here on the podcast. Hey, we want to thank Nuges Nutrition for supporting this episode of relay. This is a brand we love and we know that you will love if you give it a try. Nuges have the best taste and they are the nutrition for your runs or activity that you have been looking for. Fuel up with carbs, electrolytes and have the best flavor ever. They've got electric watermelon, sour, energy juice, lemon, zinger, blue raspberry blast, caffeinated strawberry lemonade. These were all created to fit a need. Page foot who is a dietitian, she couldn't find the right fuel. So she created it herself and they come in an easy to open package. These are quick digesting carbs. Nuges are made with a blend of glucose and

1:01fructose designed for rapid absorption and quick energy that help keep you moving. They've got essential electrolytes with 150 milligrams of sodium, 50 milligrams of potassium per serving and Nuges will help you replenish electrolytes that are lost through sweat, helping you reach your goals. So fuel up and have fun with nuges. Go to nugesnutrition.com and use the code relay one five for 15% off your order. That's relay one five for 15% off your order. And when you support a sponsor of this podcast, you're directly supporting this show and you're supporting your own running because you're going to love nuges. Nugesnutrition.com use the code relay one five for 15% off your order. Welcome back to relay. Man, what an eventful weekend. Lindsay, you were out in Napa, Erica, you were at the US half marathon championship. And we received a lot of DM saying they couldn't wait for us to come on and break down my weekend long run. So I just want everyone

2:06to know it was like it was a good run. I don't know why everyone was like, can't wait for relay this week. I didn't have that much eventful of a weekend until I opened up my phone on Sunday morning. Erica, bring us on the scene. Oh, boy, we're just diving right in. Okay, so at Atlanta, Georgia, the year is 2026. Here we go. Here we go. It's actually a gorgeous day. Perfect racing conditions. It is sunny. It is not windy. It's in the high 40s getting up to the low 50s. Like you could not ask for better race conditions vibes are high. It's a great field race starts perfectly. No issues. Everyone's doing great. Then come the hills race starts to spread out a little bit. It gets a little more strong out as it goes on. And then the way that course kind of runs is there are some pretty steep hills on the front side, but you're still making

3:06your way essentially just down for eight miles. And then at eight miles, you're at the lowest possible point in the course. And then it's like five miles to the finish with some really, really hard climbs around like miles 10 and 11, especially. Not for the faint of heart. I was a little faint of heart that day. So like the drama in the front did not impact me directly. But yeah, so like I a decent day, I was like, I'm getting ready for Boston, but I knew I wasn't like peak half marathon shape, but it was like a great effort out on the course. And like it's always fun to like go do those things and like see my friends. But so I'm having like a decent day, not the best, not the worst. I come through the finish like on this gorgeous day. And like the last I had seen of the front was probably somewhere around like mile 10. So we're like less than three miles to the finish. And I can start to see the top three getting strung out a little bit. I can like see a little bit of the lead car. And then I see Jess and then I see space. And I'm like,

4:10she looks great. I knew she was ready for this weekend. So like I come through the finish ready to like congratulate her on winning because like that's what I'm thinking happened because she looked so good. I was like, there's no way she's not going to win this. And then I finish and I'm just like literally looking around. And it's like super weird because like usually the like top three for men and women are like hanging out in the finished area doing media and they have their flags. But I just like see volunteers like holding the flags. And then there's like the men like off having a normal day. But like it was just like very strange. And then I'm like looking around. And a few seconds later, I turn around and like there's Jess and Emma and and it didn't hit me at first like why that was like so strange and why like literally no one is separating and why they all look so upset. So I like asked someone standing like in the finish. I was like, Oh, like how do they do? Like did Jess win? And they were like, they went off course. And you're like, what on earth does

5:10that mean? It's like they followed a lead vehicle off course. And like they ended up running like almost an extra thousand meters like. Yeah. They went like because they were also flying like right. They were kicking it in. It's like past mile 12 and a half marathon. And like so they ran a lot of extra and ended up they went from like one, two, and three to like nine, 12, and 13 in like it was insane. So then obviously they come through the finish. It's super awkward because obviously like they're super super upset. But like everyone else seeing what has happened is also super upset on their behalf because like yeah, we all knew those three were going to win. They were a minute ahead of the entire field with less than two miles to go. Like no one is going to drop a four 20 mile and beat them. Like it was just like it wasn't like a close race. Time will tell if you can count this as a as a silver lining. But the fact that there were three had that had separated in the final mile and feeling better about it than if it was like

6:12no, that was the people and your life. Well, just the races of scratch. This is like I think that's why it's so frustrating that there's like it's so weird now and like there's not a clear path to like resolve it because every single person in that race was like we all ran that race and everyone did their best. And it was very clear who was on the podium that day. And then something insane happened. And now like everyone's kind of stuck in this weird limbo. And yeah, I've just never been out of finish where I mean, everyone was upset because like even like Molly born, handled it like with such grace. But at the same time, it's like she's like I like I didn't win this. And this is so awkward because like I had to you know what I mean, they're holding the tape for her and like yeah, yeah. And like she is the reigning US marathon champion. And she did have a great race in Atlanta as well. But like it's so awkward. And then like, you know, now she's like in the post as like the champion. And like obviously like there are a lot of people who are like

7:13huge fans of that top three that like went off course. So then like you're just kind of getting caught in the crosshairs of like, you know, that's our champion. And like it's like it's not her fault. Like the top like Annie and Carrie and Molly all had great days. And like nothing against them. But like it's just so tough that it was so obvious who the podium was. And that's something so crazy happened because that's like the one thing you don't think is going to happen. Like you put so much trust in those lead vehicles. And like I don't know what every other race they tell you explicitly like where a vehicle will turn off sometimes. If like they can't make it down the course. Like hey, the cars can't drive down the street or go over the bridge. So like do not follow it. Make sure you like you go straight instead of like turning left or like if there's things like that that are to be expected, it's always very clearly communicated. So like I don't know what happened. Like I don't know why that turn was made or like if you know what I mean, there was just

8:16a miscommunication. And they were just like, okay, like I'm out. And like it wasn't communicated to the athletes. So they accidentally like followed them. And then it's like they found that the course wasn't properly marked. And like it was a bit confusing. So like that did violate like USATF rules. But even though it violated the rules, they can't it's not like a big enough violation. Or like it's there's not enough to like overturn the results. Or like any it was like it messed up. So confused. Like how do they how does the course which so I have a question for you. Wendy, where are you? Where are you in this journey? Okay, well, I'm wondering for Erica because you obviously weren't following the lead vehicle. So like that's not an issue to you. But where that happened on the course. Can you think back to where that was? And like did it feel confusing to you? Of course, you were just following the runners in front of you, not a vehicle. Yeah. Um, I mean, I feel like that's tough to say because when there are other people in front of you, it's like just don't

9:19even think twice about it. But if you're literally the first person and there's nobody else in front of you other than the vehicle, you wouldn't know. I sent you the video. There's a video. I know I've watched that video like three times and I'm like, what? Like because when with that vehicle turns and just turns like, it's almost like is she wondering what's going on? Or she just assuming, I mean, we'd have to have Jess on to actually know for sure. But and then also like, first of all, we have to just say like Jess is post. If that's not like the most Jess, like sweetest kindness, the highest amount of character you could ever have with how she reacted because she even gave empathy to whoever the driver was of that vehicle. She's like, they feel terrible, you know, when I'm just like, man, everybody needs to just like get out of pin and take notes about how to handle a really unfortunate situation because she just that was textbook. Okay, silver lining number two. Jess McLean is super fit. And I'm here for it. We got

10:21a couple of miles. We got 48 days till Boston. But of all people, Jess, it's just like so many missed just near missed podiums and she was about to win the whole damn thing. Just heartbreaking, truly. Why did the car not stop and say, no, that's what I'm wondering. I don't think anyone's spoken to the driver on what happened. That's also like, there's only so many of those questions that you can and really should ask to like the literal people involved because like, keep in mind, that was a really upsetting morning. And like, it's fun to like talk about it. And like, it's gotten a ton of press like literally internationally. But like, there are real people who had like, were affected on this day. Like to miss opportunities, missed moments, thousands of dollars in prize money. Like, emotionally taxing experience. So like, I do want to be a little careful on how much we like really go into those types of things.

11:23Because there are real human beings. That's like for sure. Oh, for sure. I was trying to think if it was the NBA, like the NBA will make calls about a game. And then on Monday, like the next morning or the day after or the NFL is on Monday morning, they'll like announce maybe like a change of not the call on the day because the game has been played. But the my understanding is you might change the outcomes of like, you know, a penalty that could lead to a suspension or like the official office weighs in. And that's where I was feeling Erica, you don't have to comment on the SATF, but I was feeling like a lack of clarity. They're like, by May, we should figure this out because we don't have to announce it. And you're like, okay, that's not good enough. And then I mean, I was sitting on the couch taking it all in and I turned to my wife Julia and I'm like, this happened. This is crazy. And she's like, yeah, but don't they just like, cut it up and like, all agree? Well, that would make some sense or there should be some protocol for this. And so then

12:27you start to be like, don't don't give me like, there are official rules and dada dada and we can't find a way to make it work. How many people does this have to filter through before a decision is made? Is the question. I thought, did you guys see Josh Cox's post about the whole situation? Yeah. He did you know, no, no, I'll, I'll read it really nice. He just like, he states how, you know, some comments on it, but I didn't think it was profound in any manner. I mean, I just, I think it's important that people like him stand up. He says, our agency had the second and third place finishers at the USATF half marathon championships. Kerry Ellwood and Annie wrote and filled respectively. I'm gutted for the athletes affected by the on-course mishap and for the Atlantic track club, I understand the precarious position this place is USATF given their published selection criteria for the world athletic road running championships and Copenhagen this September. He kind of explains more. But then he says earlier today, I had

13:29conversations with both Kerry and Annie, both athletes prefer that the rightful team of Jess McLeod and McGreys Hurley and Edna Courgott be named to the team representing the stars and stripes as it was a foregone conclusion that they had the team spots locked up given their lead and proximity to the finish. Yeah. With USATF, they, they have these things like, well, it can only roll down through the top five and you're like, says, who says you make an exception, make an exception. And I, I imagine, you know, they started making exceptions left and right in messing with teams. We would feel like the system had fallen apart. But this is, this is extenuating circumstances. Yeah. And these things, sadly, these things do happen. So which comes to my third or fourth silver lining, which as I feel like people are going to take these courses very seriously in the future. I mean, I don't know, Eric, I haven't run that race. When you have an official US championship that has like 25 plus turns in it, like, you're inviting

14:30the potential for some chaos. I mean, it's downtown LA. I don't, or Atlanta. I don't know what the options are, but it's by your own doing. So let's take it really seriously. Yeah. I mean, it is like a bit like absurd to expect everyone. Keep in mind that like, you don't also have access to the course map. And like, you would probably have to like study study study study. The like satellite map of the Atlanta city streets and then memorize, like 27 turns to a city maybe been to once or twice, but definitely have never run those streets. Like, there's probably a handful of people on the planet that have the capacity to like memorize that. Like, this is road racing. It is not orienting. Also, we're literally not allowed to have like tech. So it's not like anyone can flip out their phone and like use Google Maps. Like, are we supposed to like, save it to our watch? Because that also doesn't work super well. There's a weird thing with the biggest races in the world have so many people like Chicago,

15:35Tokyo, New York, where they just close off both sides with big mental fencing. And you really couldn't take a wrong turn because they have committed so many resources. You would have to really try to go off course. Yeah. Like, you're, you're, you're harcoring a little bit. Whereas a lot of races, yeah, I mean, people always get mad at the Portland marathon because people are always going the wrong way with the Portland marathon, which I totally think their anger is justified. And yet the more I've gotten to realize that, like, why isn't that problem fixed by now if it's happened so many times important? That's something we should ask the head of the Portland marathon. But it also is like, when people are drawing courses that smaller races, they're like, well, they end up drawing these like donuts where, you know, the course goes to the east and then around and then it crosses. They come up with these solutions that you're like, yeah, it would cost a lot of money to close off both sides with fencing the entire time, which they do at the majors. This is the majors also have like a different level of budget. Yeah. And so then you look at the

16:35Atlanta map and you're like, okay, I mean, I guess it was both like, how could this happen? Then you look at the Atlanta map, you're like, I could see how this could happen. Yeah. You know, nothing. It's so like so, so strange. Strange. You're not going to forget it. It was by far the weirdest finish line I've ever seen. Because like, well, everyone's upset. Yeah. I think not finished. So strange. Yeah. No. I think that the other piece that comes out of this is that it shows how strong and like connected the professional women's running scene is. Every single person that I that I can see with my eyes and ears is just supportive of one another in this situation. Like I've seen nothing but like uplifting comments and support and I just seems

17:37like everybody really loves each other. Do you feel those vibes, Erica? Yeah. But I think it's like a deep place of just like respect because like they're great athletes and you like hate to see like bad things happen to good people. And there are a lot of very good people in US women's running, especially like in the front. So it's like you, you know, you're happy for their wins. You like feel for their losses, but we can all respect like a well-earned victory. And like those three undoubtedly earn that podium on Sunday and then didn't get it. And that's just like one of the most heartbreaking scenarios you could ever imagine. Because you're just like, you did everything you were supposed to do. Like you raised so well, you trained so hard. Like they're very easy people to cheer for. And then come to find out they didn't get their moment. And they might be denied prize money in the opportunity for this team because of like just a quick, like a wacky mistake, which is like,

18:37is that enough to like derail this like moment for you? Like that sucks. And like you just like hate to see it happen. It's just like not controversial in like that sense. Like at all, which is what makes it so like frustrating. Yeah. I posted like, this is a ridiculous statement from the USAGF that cities we posted and like 400 people have liked my comment. Because I'm like, there's no humanity in this comment. There's no like, we feel deeply for the athletes affected. And we are going to figure out how to make this right. They're just like per rule 275. And you're like, maybe they think in that moment, they're just officiating. But again, I don't think USAGF understands like the NFL or NBA, like you are presiding over the pro sport here. Like talk about it, like the fans care. And they sometimes do stuff that's like, we're just, we just called balls and strikes and we walk off the field. And you're like, no, because it makes us as fans, I don't know,

19:42feels as a pro to be like, well, maybe I shouldn't care about this. Like you're acting like it doesn't matter. Like I shouldn't. I mean, I feel like everyone has their own individual beef with their federation, which is like just a common experience around the globe as an athlete. You know, you're a pro. But no, it's like I can like almost under, I don't want to understand them. But I can see from a professional standpoint, why you would want to like strictly adhere to statements in criteria that you've already published, because you're like trying to save face and like maintain some sense of like trust in like good faith. But I think there are moments like this one where the best thing you can do to retain that trust in good faith is to, you know, use your power to like do the right thing, because it's like if you want people to trust this bot like governing body that they will take care of their athletes and like put the best teams together to compete on the world stage, then it's like do it, like do your thing. Yes. Maybe you wrote

20:47that six months ago, but also you can rewrite it tomorrow. Like and also you don't have to rewrite it forever. Like we're talking about one thing. So I think that's the like frustrating part is you're like, oh, my hands are tied. And it's like you're tying your own hands. Like you're tying your own hands on your hands, just like exactly. Exactly. And running races get let off course. Like this is not part of the rulebook anywhere. It's never been part of the rulebook. Like I've I've personally been a part of like three or to five races that have been let off course. So if they're not efficient, you have a lot. A lot of you women are racing Boston. Like how do you know like who like when you get on the line? Like who's in there for a fitness test? Who's in there to like try to win it? Who's in there to like be like, this is specifically a workout to Boston. Yeah. What does that start line feel like knowing that you're all in like probably more marathon shape? You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, you don't really ask. What are you doing today? Yeah.

21:56I don't know. I just feel like you go out and like everyone has their own goals for the days, their own race plan, their own purpose for being on that start line. So yeah, I feel like it'd be really weird if we were like chit chatting about like what we were there for and like what we were trying to do. Well, you've never been an amateur runner. Amateur runners are like sandbaggers like crazy. Because there's like literally thousands of people around you. So you need to know like if the person next to you is going to walk the first mile or not so you don't get like trampled. But when there's only like 40 of you and like you at least like I've been around long enough that I know a bunch of these people pretty well. So I can like roughly guess like oh, sure. Who's always ready to go regardless of like what they're training for. Who maybe has just come off an injury who just got sick. Like do you have like a rough idea? But at the same time like it doesn't change like what you're trying to do that day. Yeah. Yeah. I mean we're normally just like

23:02normal people on the start line. We were entertained by the intros that some of us got. Oh, fun. They always sometimes they're really good and really like tight and like they're like they actually do hype you up and sometimes they say like the weirdest stuff or like the way they phrase things you're like that was almost insulting. Why would you bring that up? Like I'm you know what I mean? Like it's super weird. I remember Molly Borns was really funny because they started good with like raining US marathon champ and then said something weird about like and we'll see something and it's like that didn't feel very positive towards the end. And then racist was really funny because she's from Georgia. So like when they announced her they announced her as like this high school like state champ or whatever to start. As we go back in the archives like M&K is relevant today. Right. Like stuff like that is like super funny. And I guess that's probably the last thing we're thinking of before they send us off is like why would you put that in my intro? You're like today I need to rewrite

24:08at another bullet point above. It's like entertaining because like some of them try to spice it up and like build some tension of like let's see what they can do but you're also like the last thing someone said to me before the race went off was like are they going to have a good day and you're like old shit. I don't know. Yeah. So but it's fun. It's entertaining. Were you at the press conference? I saw pictures of you Emma Grace and Molly others. Yes. How does that work? Like how do they decide who's at the press conference? Couldn't tell you. But they asked you and you're there. Yeah. I did not volunteer. I don't think I've talked about this with you on relay. I am to put it nicely of mixed opinion about like the pre-race press conferences where they're like stick a microphone in a house training been going. How are you saying for tomorrow? I'm like when I see those now on YouTube I'm like those are two minutes of my life I could just say right now. Like what are you going to say? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. That's funny. I mean

25:09fine. I've done them before and they're always like pretty similar but I mean Carrie Tulipson hosted that one and Carrie's great because she actually asked more like personal questions versus the like how is training been going? How do you have you run? Like it's a little bit more like why this race or like what do you like about this city or something that's just like a little less boring and like repetitive. We said that we would recap the half marathon champion. I didn't realize it was going to be international news but that was wild. Yeah that was wild. One for the evening. It's also interesting to like see it kind of take on a life of its own so quickly once it like hits like mainstream media because then the story gets like super condensed and like we were saying earlier like gets dramatized a little bit so it's like track star robbed of victory and like it gets wild which like yeah but also like

26:10damn like what do they think is happening over here? Like it was like a tragic mistake and like nothing like no conspiracies or anything are happening but it is like wild to see a running story get that much like attention. You would love to see like positive stories take on that kind of like right life in the mainstream media but like it's okay. It's not the worst story to make it to the mainstream so like I'll live with it. Yeah no that's such a good point. Yeah let's pick up some of these really exciting stories. I mean when Kira broke the American record I remember that got picked up on mainstream but it's interesting because I don't remember when Emily Susan broke the American record at really getting picked up like as heavily on mainstream. Maybe it was because Kira was like she left the sport for 10 years. She's a mom. Yeah. She's a bit older to start her pro marathon career totally versus like Emily we were just like waiting for to happen because she's right she's been a reality. Totally. What's crazy though is that

27:14with all of that and I was immersed in Napa Valley marathon weekend myself but like I feel like indoor champs. I'm like you know I have people texting me about Emily McCoy and I'm like thinking I'm just so out of the loop like I wasn't even focused on that at all so I don't know if you guys have comments. Wait the indoor champs. Erica's like I was pretty busy too. I was waiting for our track correspondent Lindsay Hine. Yeah. Like the whole details. Paging in from Staten Island I was saying that my life is all about going in with low expectations and I did not think much about indoor champs and then they were a there's some fun races. B they put them on NBC sports YouTube like pretty quickly so that's pretty nice. Women's 15 totally absurd like just you know three people like crashing across the finish and yeah really fun. Who's number three was it was it Nikki Gracie

28:22and who's number three. Lindsay Butler who was the double pass you know you're coming down you're like I can see the finish and then two champions come by either side like a cartoon character scene and it's always that thing like again track is so the margins are so small that like it's a weird part of our sport that Gracie like is like falling to the line and it was kind of like arms up almost victorious and then finally turns her head and it's like oh there's Nikki whoops okay like and then you know quickly congratulations yeah Nikki in patented form left it till the kick but then in this case I think probably tried to keep it even more exciting or something like that and just came flying through it the very very final last second so Nikki did a great job of getting their hands up to signify the 10th championship like I don't know so if we for those going home what do you mean the 10th championship like I think it's like their 10th title yeah 10th

29:24title yeah like 1500 like in a while that was it yeah that's where I was losing track was a seven or 10 it was a 1500 meter titles just straight wow it's like a fun little side quest like the team goes to Poland and they like there will be a world championship we're not like so I mean last time Nikki was out worlds they were silver so yeah there we go should be pretty exciting wait Elindy were you hearing about the 3k on Sunday you're getting the scratches that Emily was looking quite strong you're like man oh man yeah I'm just getting text messages that she won for 3000 yeah um I have a correspondent also in Atlanta uh Kara oh Kara she said she told you that um I coach her she's like I I saw Erica yeah after I finished she's so sweet she's very very heavily involved in like just the Atlanta running community and so she was super excited to be

30:27able to be a volunteer for the half champs but she was actually my onsite correspondent I was getting ready I think I was getting ready for to go MC Napa because you know I'm like three hours behind and she texted me about like they went off course and at first I read it and I was like huh and then I realized like oh wait wait this is like a massive deal like this is huge and then I I'm also getting text from her about indoors all weekend too so I have people on the ground when I'm not paying attention apparently indoors is fun it's like a little appetizer um it feels like in a good way in a fun way like the best athletes outdoors typically win like there's upsets and such but there's enough space on the track that you're like man they ran the race in that person one whereas Indy you often do I think and I've finished watching a race like oh well I mean okay that's who won um but like you know people there's just not enough they all want to be in the same

31:31square foot you know like you know Cole Hawker wins the 3k and a thrilling victory on Saturday and then comes back for the 15 of which he's the Olympic champion and just kind of gets jammed up maybe he's tired gets pushed out the side and finishes like and he's like yeah wow that wouldn't didn't work out well for me I don't know if you've seen our resident high schooler Cooper looked in house what I am obsessed with is I want to see I would love someone to put him on a treadmill and get some force readings on just like how much force he transfers into the ground because the dude just looks like he's like some people look fast he just looks like he's like I was like barely touching the ground he just is sort of like springing off the ground and he's going just the youth well it's unprecedented youth because he's the U-20 world record holder so I mean it's pretty I don't know it just it's a funny way he just looks like why is everyone working so hard behind me this is first national title and it's just like well yeah I mean if

32:33you can look like that you're gonna win the race it wasn't super fast but it's a you know four lap into a race so it doesn't have to be I will say I don't know if you saw any of the no-aliles content anywhere nope oh no he didn't win he did not win he didn't make the team either did he and no he got or did he get sex sir wait didn't he get there because they only take two for indoors oh yeah um yeah Jordan Anthony young gun who trains with no-aliles Trayvon Bremel and then no-aliles I just if I was a director I would call cut and I'd be like Noah and he'd just say the lines I can meet him like I just need you to say that again like you actually like I didn't like he just trash talks but in a way that I just don't believe he believes you know he's like you can borrow the belt but I'm man and I'm like I just don't I think you're a nice guy who's like

33:38I was gonna say he's a nice guy he's just such a nice guy and I think someone's like hey no you could say this stuff after the race and like he just sells it like he he knows the controversy will sell but I'm like he just I just think he's like a sweetheart you're saying you think he's saying these tough lines but doesn't actually mean them yeah he put out a real like the day before being like I have the belt like you're coming through the night has like default personality yeah as like a human but it but it's just his delivery of these lines some people they're like you know there's a lot of talk online sometimes you'll see a video and they're like well he's actually a nice guy he just kind of comes off like a jerk in these videos and Noah is like trying to act like a hard-ass and he just seems like a sweet oh well I hope he is I mean I think he seems like a nice person and he has good people around him and he has you know like his moms there his in

34:40the videos not these videos but like his girlfriends you know he's not some lone wolf that like you're like this person is lethal you're like he seems like a charming man but like when you're the expected person to win and two other people beat you don't you say like the people the two people that showed up best today won and that is what it is well Lindsay you're not going to make any money with controversy yeah anyways I was like oh it's early season like he's more of a long sprinter it's okay but I do have a moral question for you guys as fans of the sport um do we are we going to watch the enhanced games oh or is that like I just kind of like I don't really care about it and I think it's weird if you want to do it I mean it's super weird to do it but it's happening and like I know giving them your ship is like bad but yeah for being honest

35:44I do want to see Fred Curley I know I know he's just such like an anomaly of a human being and I'm like I'm so sad he's like deviated onto this like diabolical side quest but yeah it makes you feel when someone signs up for it are you like and you're overwhelmed especially like for him because like I remember like watching him back in college like absolutely demolished the four and then as a pro just like yeah for no reason be like you know what I'm gonna crush the hundred and like everyone can like get out of my way and then he followed through on that and it was like literally uncharted territory like no one had done something that bold no 400 runner just was like going up to the 100 meter guys it was like this is my crown because that's just like unheard of and then to like fall from grace and then do this is like absolutely insane but I'm still obsessed with his like ranch life and like

36:49just like I don't know they're he's so interesting but I wish he lives on a ranch he like rides horses and does ranch things oh but wait so okay we want I will I wanted to support him until he did this enhanced game stuff okay but question is is when someone is signing up for the enhanced games do we does that taint their previous career or most of the people who signed up have been banned he's like one of the like three people who signed up without a history of doping okay I just wanted to warn that he's not doping he's just doing this now he's going to just for this who are the other do you guys know who the other people are that haven't you always do this Lindsey you always see that's not an important question you always like like if we don't know why would our listeners know yeah yeah like Lindsey's always like can you pull a random fact that you should maybe know it is serious with no but I can't the people who have never been popped

37:54oh freaking people right now Fred Curly has plenty of controversy on his name oh he does okay Erica I'm for those viewing at home I have my friend Curly framed photo that I purchased oh no it's not hanging on the wall it's not hanging currently because I'm not here to litigate domestic disputes but yeah if you get arrested for domestic violence you you don't get to be behind me on the wall um there I I'm more disappointed I don't have a new if you'd ask me this question like a year ago I had an interim point of view which was people can dope all they want but if they don't have a elite like world class mechanics and explosiveness it's just not going to be thing it's just gonna be like oh look this guy was 11 he was a 10 six runner and now he's a 10 two and you're like whatever yeah and then they started recruiting some of the world's best and so now I'm like I don't know how to feel because I it would be lying if I look to you it says like I'm

38:57definitely looking away and I won't be checking the results like yeah you know it's like oh watching like through your hands like it's a scary movie exactly it's totally like a scary movie you're like I don't I want to know how it turns out but I don't know if I want to see it there's no grand slam this spring so like yeah but also are you gonna watch I'm just uninterested because I think it's like I don't I don't miss this I don't care what you can do with things that aren't legal to use to put into your body like you know what I mean like at this point is he's not taking them he's just like literally suspended right now like via like water like he's there being a suspension so he can't compete normally so this is him finding a route to compete he just happens to be competing against a lot of people who do have a history of oh so he's not enhancing for the enhanced games according to himself I mean yeah and just like you can come test me whenever you want oh I mean I actually get three where where about failures who knows yeah

40:02three whereabouts failures depending on who you talk to is either can happen or the most egregious failure I mean I you every time you think about a whereabouts failure Erica in general I mean it takes three to get suspended one I would never think twice okay just because like it's a mistake like literally you were just like not home when you were supposed to be home slept your mind you didn't update your thing it's whatever to you should be on high alert because they drop one every 12 months so if you had two already like you were sitting on two whereabouts failures for the next 12 months you in theory would have them accounted for like clockwork because you don't want a third one and it's like you know if you get a third one you're going to be suspended so like it seems like a pretty high I always been curious there's no app like how quality oh there's no app that's like the frustrating part because people are like

41:03we wish we had an app I will literally share my location with you I always have my phone on me like this could be so simple and we could never have whereabouts failures but it's still this like portal on like a website so it is like a bit old school tech wise but like it's part of your job so it's like I'm gonna complain about it because like if you're like I'm gonna go to you're in Boston or wherever you are I'm gonna go to Raleigh for the weekend you just have to go log I'm gonna be in Raleigh North Carolina Saturday through Sunday yeah okay it's like anything Pro Runner should know the course why didn't they memorize the course and you're like well it's like a 30 turn course or like Pro Runner should just update their whereabouts but then I've heard stories of like you know you know maybe you also like what I did over to that girl's house after the party and you know maybe now you're not sleeping you said you were sleeping and now we have a problem yeah what do you up to you're being fishy we're just like one time itself is like not I mean it's not difficult to use but at the same time like there's like two factor authentic

42:06you know like whatever so it has to send you a text to like verify so you can log in and then sometimes it like bugs out on my phone and send any my computer but I don't have my computer so I have to use someone else's computer and now it's a new device and now it thinks I'm like freaking out but it's fine in theory you get three strikes so like right you don't strike till you have like multiple I'm imagining they're like somewhere like yeah no she said she liked me she just said it wasn't worth updating her whereabouts yeah she didn't like me at the computer we can do an honorable mention for the men's have marathon championships yes the hookah boys they all look so happy there's like that one plus one plus one equals five when they're all from the same brand like you know these men are I mean they're doing well but I will say as a fan I just interviewed Ethan Shuley from who qualified and like I want to put some of these guys

43:12like in that box where you're like okay Wesley like you qualified for the trials but like what if you just went ham on a race you know like what if you risk really blowing up because you know some of these men have run some good times but I'm like I want their names out there in the stratosphere with some risky risky running and honorable mentions speaking of Ethan who ran was it Osaka or something different yeah yeah Osaka um Casey Klinger eight minute baby yeah just a few months after in Tokyo a little bit of a tough day view in Chicago ran it back in borderline his second home country oh yeah I know I was like is he giving this interview in Japanese like well yeah really I was like what is the AI am I watching and I'm like no he's doing this how did his mission in Japan and then him and his brother by chance also did their missions in Japan so like okay the Klinger men all speak Japanese all right wow so like it was really cool for him to like

44:21you know sneaked over to Tokyo and like ball out wow um Ethan on your interview with him Peter I noticed you you guys brought up rant to Japan every single time I get acupuncture the guy who does my acupuncture is trying to convince me to get on board with this rant of the Japan what is that on board ball if I wait what would you have to do he just wants me to like pay attention he wants me to watch his content like he's he's so invested in this guy and he's like have you seen this guy are you watching this stuff yet and I'm like yeah yeah yeah I did look it's 24 we're at the US marathon trials like two days before and we do this big group run and these people come up to me I'm standing next to my co-calfuzzi and they're just like spouting off like oh and then this and then this and then Mike and then blah blah blah I'm like oh that's awesome like when did you start running and they're like oh like um you know late pandemic like 21-22 I'm like you've been running for two years and you are so far in the weeds that you are like talking about the

45:24controversy I don't even remember what the controversy's worked out and I that's cool I said this to Mike and he's like a little bit after he's like oh yeah man YouTube will radicalize you like he's like you got the people who go health you got the people go politics and then he's like some of these people on my they're just all about the you know the trajectory of these different people so yeah like Lindsay these YouTubers will have these rapid fans like how could you not know about this person I'm like totally it sounds like I should but just fill me in you know that's exactly it I mean like every single time I'm like right anyway so anyway I did text him that interview I was like take this brand of Japan you should listen to this episode you think it's even like bashful I'm like it's cool you do YouTube and he was like whoa whoa whoa like I barely do you like yeah he's quiet about it and I'm like I'm sorry like I'm just trying that well he was like I think he doesn't put a lot of effort into his YouTube so he's like didn't want to be like yeah he's in film school he needs to like sell it he's like that for my best work

46:29I thought it was a really interesting episode though but yeah a lot of I guess the Miranda Japan guy is British but yes yeah it's it's surprising that you've got two sub to ten American marathoners you can just fluently speak Japanese yeah I'm not about it kind of random really yeah it's exciting though that cuz Casey seemed to marathon is hard he ran Chicago what did he run what did he run Tokyo 216 oh in Tokyo like 208 wow that's huge yeah that's really exciting um sorry you asked me about Napa and my kids started screaming but I'll just say sorry if you're gonna mention that two-aid is now the like yeah the price of entry yeah no no I agree yeah I mean I remember in I remember early on in my podcasting years like you know it's been oh it's been a decade now um that it was a massive deal the year in Chicago when like multiple American men broke 210 and so yeah I agree like and now that would be multiple American

47:34men breaking 208 for sure um no uh Napa Valley marathon it was such a good weekend it was beautiful um we did have an Olympic trials qualifier Abigail Shoemaker nice so that was really exciting also huge course record there she ran 235 maybe 35 or something like that I know I'm like that was a really impressive run I mean I know yeah because it was actually I would say maybe felt a tad bit toasty like it was fine but it wasn't it was probably like a tiny bit warm um especially for the people running you know slower marathon times and the course has some rollers on it it's not like totally flat or anything it's beautiful the the courses beautiful um absolutely yeah that's exciting it's always exciting when there's a course record there was a course record last year too so maybe it's maybe it's um on the up and up on people coming out and trying to run really fast

48:34but there's always like there's always a good amount of pretty speedy people there but I mean she ran 237 at CIM yeah so she was trying to OTQ yeah yes but it's just I if I had a friend run 237 CIM I'd be like man would you pick an apple settling and then she's like not just gonna go nap and hit it and you're like okay but like what's the point but what was the 237 like you know what I mean like was she in shape for 235 and like she got sick or something like that you know like who knows why she can't be just sort of male in that first one or set the bar low yeah yeah yeah I want to get all the bonuses um and no it's true it's just an impressive impressive run but it's a quick turnaround I think it's a cool course I think it's a very cool event and I never run it but because I'm close by in Oregon every year or so friends will be like it can be fast we got to go and I'm like yeah come on down be sure it's be sure it's fast

49:38come for the vibes of too yeah no I mean it definitely seems worth doing yeah your your friend too I am like trying to like she's my friend now too just oriented was there oh yeah how to go it was good yeah I got to interview her and Shannon Robbery at the expo and really just got to know them we hung out quite a bit was really fun I asked Shannon lots of like not on record like not on recording like lots of career questions too and I was like see I think you're kind of like um people people are curious because you know she did run with the organ project uh she was coached by Alberto for a little bit um and so I'm like people are curious about you because you haven't like really made the podcast rounds too much and um so yeah I'm I'm excited I told her and Jess I'm airing the episode we recorded um this Friday and I'll have another but then I was

50:39like you know because I want to have them on to help them promote their book and everything but I was like I actually want to interview you guys separately because for Shannon I want to do like a real career focused interview like I do with other pros not just like focused on a book promo I want like I want you know the interview so did you say to her like now that you're on Olympic medalist I'm willing to have you on my side yeah no I've I've tried to have her on before she just I mean Shannon um she wasn't I don't know if you guys paid attention to this at all but she's not necessarily been someone that's like out in the media you know on social media a lot so she's just kind of like seem to me like doing her thing running really hard doing mom stuff like not really making the rounds like some athletes do. I'll be interested to see I'm sure it could be a nice conversation I think talking about the organ project is like playing with fire like no I mean and it's like what is she willing to talk about

51:42what's the downside yeah it's like well she's she's a three-time Olympian though and she also meddled now she's got the medal in like what's known to be like possibly the dirtiest race of all in big history I mean she plays six in that race and ended up with a medal so um yeah I mean I just I think she should be a fascinating interview she's also like very smart she went to do like I don't know I think she you don't have to sell us we'll we'll listen we're excited to interview her as like I feel like it'll it will be like a very classic interview like I want the whole story you know three-time Olympian and yeah she's been someone that I've always wanted to have on and just it's never worked out so anyway yeah the whole weekend was good at blistering pace they are the race management team that puts on Napa Valley Big Sur they also do a lot of logistics for Chicago in New York um she Michelle LaSalle she is like amazing their team is like legit also just like fun

52:50and easy to work with Erica you're gonna have like a tour of fun events when like the events are not I think you're gonna maybe have it part of your running career yeah running life maybe not career where you like I really want to hit that race because it just seems like a good old time oh for sure I mean like yeah not that I'm like rushing retirement but like no I'm not pushing it because they're like very fun but we have you thought of any like oh when when this is all done I want to hit that up um the wine marathon in France where you like actually stop at the different wineries because like fun what a every quality yeah which is like it's like you're going on a wine tour and doing a run like yes sign me up but like things like that or like just things in like fun cities that like you can make a whole weekend out of it because I'm huge fan of the like destination races because like why not it gives you a purpose but also you get to see somewhere new so there's all

53:53sorts of stuff I mean does going down and winning the run Disney hat I just all that so that's so random too I was like wait is that does maybe just like go down there and like set and have seen course record just to like be annoying she's like the only one down there like not in a costume you know I feel like everybody runs those races and costumes and she's like at her Brooks I mean I'm sure there's like a cool like Guinness World Record for that like I would need to look it up but there's got to be a sick Guinness World Record for a half marathon in like a duck costume or something yeah yeah yeah totally yeah you gotta do actually I should look this up because I know that the men's records got pretty aggressive like Yuki Kouchi ran like 70 and a panda costume so you're like right some of these might be playing that's the level of commitment I'm looking for yes okay it's like full effort in an obscene costume okay I've heard that thermodynamics on that stuff really matter like I mean I was that seem comfortable jogging get very warm apparently

54:59I mean those suits are insane oh my gosh no figure out but leave it to yeah this could be part of deserts we don't need we need to pitch it to her um it needs to be part of the no because imagine me like if you were so to shine this is my you sure yeah we need the air first feature then no one how does about this yeah we don't need we don't need people like does trying to break their records we need these records to wait for air cut it feels like a Scooby-Doo thing like if you wore some sort of mask and you're like who is that woman just flying down the road I mean that's the dream yeah you're like oh it was the pro marathon air from yes I like this okay so have have we read anything can I can we do can we wrap up our like as long as we don't say consumed yeah no ingest ingest ingest oh yeah you make a face like I said the word moist like a lot of people don't like that word you're acting like the word ingest is like gross

56:04they go there was just something about the way you said the whole sentence just like it was just it didn't hit it made us all uncomfortable okay well um I finally started the book the correspondent after a million people have recommended it and I wanted to wait because I had read theo of golden and I was like I feel like they might have similar vibes and I need like you know just something different in between so I did that and I finally started the correspondent anytime I have a trip I get a lot of reading done because there's a lot of airplane time and it is so precious I think I'm like 60% through and I love it highly recommend I love I love the main character civil I just she she has made me literally laugh out loud multiple times in the book and it's gonna make you want to write letters like handwritten letters to people you love or don't get a talk

57:05I mean honestly like this book is for the good I seriously in the middle of reading it I texted my so my grandma passed away like 10 years ago and her best friend who was like is like a second grandma to me she's still alive she's like 83 I think and I like I need to text Margaret right now you know I'm reading this book and so I texted her and I'm like hey how are you and ask her a few questions and I'm like I'm reading the correspondent you would love this book and so I think the book is just so good because it reminds you to like not just think about the people you know in all these different places in your life but actually reach out to them so um highly recommend it I don't know what's gonna end I'm hoping it's not ending in some like horribly sad way but um yeah I recommend the correspondent that's it's like everybody's reading it yes lovely um nothing I have been catching up on the newest season of my strange addiction

58:06and oh it's weird 2025 2026 it's gotten I mean it was weird when it came out like 10 years ago and I was like you've been watching this for a long time I mean well they haven't had a new season in a long time so like this is a big deal um the old seasons are unhinged but it's also just funny to watch what everyone was like in 2010 because I was like god we were so embarrassing and also just like technology was somehow so old because like we like didn't have like iPhones yet um but now like seeing all the weird addictions in like modern times is almost more unsettling because you're like there's one woman who she's like I'm 32 in Boston and I'm like you could have come across her in your daily life which is like terrifying um but the episode I watched most recently was uh the guy who's addicted to butter he's just like so convinced that butter is the key to

59:08health and longevity he like found it on some rabbit hole of the internet and he's just like they're just documenting his life with butter and and how like how much butter does he eat every day a few sticks yeah like a few sticks and does he eat it raw just like just like with nothing else just he'll just like take a bite of butter for snacks yes he must yeah he'll like freeze it he'll do charcuterie boards with just like cold butter on it he puts like a stick of butter in his eggs a stick of butter in the pan when he's cooking dinner and then a little more to finish it off he always carries a stick of butter with him for snacks like I have never seen ready to go this committed to butter but he's like he's I mean he looks fine and like they show old photos of him before this butter phase and like he looked less fit and he's like I felt terrible I looked terrible butter is so huge my life and you're like okay like it is like a natural

1:00:12food source but like did big butter set him up to this like is this meal like what is happening and then in every episode it's like the first half of the episode is like just introducing you to these people in their strange addiction and then the second half is them confessing to either a family member or a friend and like it never goes well because it's obviously like the strangest things so he had a friend come over and like made him his traditional butter dinner and his friend is like do you want me to poop myself like I'm not eating this so he's hides the butter addiction or like like he consumes a lot more than people notice so like when his friend is over for dinner he like showed him like the extent of his butter consumption and like his friend was like how much do you go through and he like told him and he was like bro that's not it this is not it and he was like have you been to a doctor and he's like yeah yeah funny enough like the last time I went to

1:01:13the doctor they said I had high cholesterol like go figure oh and his friend yeah that's not good and he was like it's fine and then they just put it like text on the screen that was like he has not reduced his butter consumption since filming it's like end of episode end of episode oh my gosh I feel like I remember you talking about my strange addiction like a long time ago that's why I said there's a lot of seasons yeah okay yeah but we're on a new one now so these are things I've never seen before okay does it change your view of the world like I think you then you go through the world being like seeing stuff being like oh I know there's people addicted to that there's people addicted to that I think yeah because like how can you possibly make this many seasons that are this interesting because it's like yeah I'm sure everyone has like a weird little thing that they do in their daily lives that like they don't think is weird but like maybe the general public is like hmm I don't do that every day or like you're a bit too attached to this thing but then you're like watch a show like that and you're like how does someone end up this way

1:02:16like literally how did we get from like point A to point B because it feels like we miss some steps or we didn't go to B we went to Z and now we're on like a different planet because you think this is like standard yeah and like this can't be standard because then like what planet am I on bright I mean that's interesting we this whole podcast we are obsessing a sport that is all about like oh you think that's pretty far people go way further than that way you know so yeah do you have a goodie that you ingested I was I viewed I'm late to the I was late to the heated rivalry party oh blue through six episodes I mean it shows you're like is it good oh ended with a tear running down my cheek oh it is quite good I have some thoughts that are not

1:03:19maybe I'm saving it okay I know I'm going to absolutely love it and I want to watch it all like in one weekend so I'm like saving it for like the right weekend I think what's the most appropriate family appropriate it's common I can make about this show yeah yeah I was just say this is their children listening people I'm saying on this show yeah I at one point paused and was just I don't see a lot of naked men who are that physically fit no I'm like I'm around men who are either like you know mostly naked if we're out in the summer running in short shorts but I'm like yeah you know Julia's not has not watched you yet and I just probably almost like look at these specimen and her friends are like so is he going to get in the gym and you know work on some of his muscles I'm like that's so funny I still want my mileage to be super high which would not I don't

1:04:19it's not neither or Peter oh yeah it's true these the hybrid athletes would say otherwise um yeah it was a very and then it coincided with one of the co-stars going on snl and getting to see the breath of his you know acting and his comedic expertise but um oh yeah I don't see that he was highly recommend it's not that long I was like given you know some shows you could the fan base gets so worked out because it's like 18 episodes and by the time they do that they're off in their own world whereas this was pretty quick you know Lindsey you should read the book oh I haven't but I guarantee the books even better so I should read that and then watch the show probably okay I forgot I yeah I think I did hear that there was a book okay Lindsey's like I'm gonna just give me all the book I'm gonna do it in like a day yeah it's a series they're just a book it is a series but the show is only based on like one of them book okay book one because I you know like I

1:05:22all the runner girls are into like fourth-wing aqatar like I can't tell you how many people have interviewed did you read any of those Erica yeah I mean I read aqatar when it like came out like when I was still in college um oh it's that I didn't realize it was it was a hole yeah I came out I just can't but I got really popular on TikTok like three years ago okay so it's been fun because then I can like talk to people about it yeah I'm here that like sit with my phone you don't wait yeah no I just like super fun with series though I'm like yeah but like like I said with the goal no needed like something different in between that and the correspondence so I'm like but then I feel like I'll be so best in the story I won't want to stray and I don't know I don't really quick read so it's like you can get through the series in three days really they're like they're very easy to read books okay which is why okay they're so so popular like it's not like a

1:06:25grind your brain doesn't hurt to get there yeah yeah you're not feeling tired your brain's not filling tired you're not learning anything. Yeah they're not easy there's more entertainment. Alright friends well thanks for being here and we'll see you next week on relay. thanks so much thanks so much so much so much so much so much so much so much so much to