Viral TIKTOK Atheist REACTION: Dr. Jeremiah Johnston

With Venmo Stash, a toggle on one hand and ordering a ride in the other means your stack

and cash back.

With Venmo Stash, get up to 5% cash back when you pick a bundle of your favorite brands.

Our more cash when you do more with Stash.

Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply match $100 cash back per month, see terms of

Venmo.me slash stash terms.

You've been there, settling in for an evening of TV only to waste half the night scrolling.

Enter Fire TV, entertainment with zero effort required.

Fire TV serves up personalized recommendations from across all your apps.

Not sure what to watch?

Just tell Alexa Plus what you're in the mood for and she'll pull up the perfect recommendation.

Problem solved.

Stop the scroll, start the show.

Find what you're looking for with Fire TV.

Subscriptions may be required.

Gay Crack Head.

I am very, very pleased to be joined once again by one of the great guests we've ever had

on our shows.

Jeremiah Johnston, who is famous in the Michael Knowles show universe for his excellent

explication of the Shroud of Tour.

If you haven't seen it yet, if you're one of the few people who hasn't seen it yet, you

have to go somewhere stop me in the street the other day.

They say, Jeremiah Johnston interview with Shroud of Tour and so anyway, he's back.

We are going to analyze with Jeremiah's great expertise, woke religion tiptocks.

But before we get to that very, very important work, you've brought some goodies.

I have.

What?

Have you brought all the way from Rome?

I need you to hold Codex Vape Vaticanus B.

Will, am I able to hold this?

I will.

I physically hit his 16 pounds.

I want you to open it like you're opening your Bible.

This is a fact similarly that was issued by Pope John Paul II.

He signed it Christmas Day 1999.

These are very hard to come by.

So this is, it is an exact fact similarly, 739 leaves.

This is the entire Greek Bible, Michael.

So the Codex, the Codex Vape Vaticanus for people who don't know is one of the oldest Greek

manuscripts of the Bible.

If not, the oldest.

It might be the single old.

This is five years after the Council of Nicaea, 325, so I dated it to 330, remember my

area of expertise is Paleography and Codicology.

The fascination that there is no difference, truly.

It's 98% text stable, meaning the Bible you open at Mass literally matches this with

a 98% accuracy.

When I was an atheist, I used to say to Christians, I say, well, no, look, how do we even know?

I mean, it's been so many years, so many transitions.

How do we really know?

It's a great question.

We're reading.

It's nothing to do, perhaps.

But then I actually looked into it.

No, it's pretty much the exact same thing.

Exactly.

Literally.

You can't get this on Amazon.

You can't or eBay.

No.

And, you know, I have to kill you if I told you I got it.

Yeah, I know.

Who, what sort of underground networks of the Vatican, or you can't confirm or deny, but

I'm with the Brotherhood?

This is magnificent.

I love that phrase that the nearest relative to Christianity is archaeology.

Evidence.

Evidence.

I've often described it to people.

They say, well, how do you distinguish Christianity from other religions?

I say other religions really begin in poetry or philosophy or a crazy vision or a crazy

vision.

But in terms of literary genres, Christianity begins in journalism because the Bible is

journalistic accounts.

It's a text-based religion.

It's amazing.

Okay.

This is unbelievable.

What else do we have?

Okay, Michael.

Brother, I need you to hold something.

I don't know if you remember, but all four gospels.

First tell me what you're holding.

I'm holding a paradise.

A pair of dice.

Now, these are not any dice.

These are first century Roman dice.

This is the real thing.

I'm not saying they're the ones that were gambled in front of Jesus.

Yes.

But these are two that.

They're made of bone.

This is not a recreation.

No, this is an artifact.

Yeah, I just acquired this, again, through my antiquities dealer.

On you can see the punched.

So these are made of bone.

All four gospels record the fact that the executioners were so desensitized to the fact

that the author of life is dying before them and they begin to gamble for his close.

These are made of bone.

They're stamped.

Romans love to gamble.

So tell me what you're thinking right now.

Have you ever held for centuries Roman dice?

And you know, I love dice.

I actually, I don't want to tell tales at a school, my step brother and I, we would roll

C-Lo at bars.

Oh, yeah, I love it.

I love it.

We'd roll dice forever.

This puts you in the world of Jesus, though.

What's really striking to me is that dice 2,000 years ago, they're a little smaller, otherwise

they look exactly.

And they're made of bone.

And they're made of bone.

We were in the drive-through.

One of my triplets said, Dad, they stink really bad.

I was like, son, they're 2,000 years old.

Yeah.

Can I?

Yes, please.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Roll them 2.

No.

Roll 9?

Yeah, 9.

There we go.

There you go.

Three to the third.

So there it is.

So these are the kind of artifacts that I bring out in the Jesus' discoveries because I want

people to know that if we cannot believe that Jesus died in Rose again based on the evidence

outside the Bible, we shouldn't believe that Caesar crossed the Rubicon.

Yeah.

The evidence is that strong.

Right.

And there's pictures throughout.

This was a labor of love doing this book because there's photographs throughout it.

I got all the permissions from all the archaeologists that help us really understand how these bring

us closer to Jesus.

That's the whole point.

It's not to be smarter.

I wanted the book to bring, like, do you feel closer to Jesus now that you've held dice?

Right.

And it's like, wow.

You know, we were talking a little bit earlier because I've been, I've had a lot of conversations

with friends about this.

I, a friend of mine has given me quite a number of holy relics, first class relics.

Amazing.

The bone of martyrs or, you know, amazing.

It's funny.

I was telling a Christian friend of mine, I mentioned this to him, and he recoiled.

He said, oh, I don't really like, I don't like the why.

There is a certain strain that has been around since antiquity of iconoclast or a kind of

Christianity that says, no, no, we should only focus on spiritual things, not physical

things.

And I get it.

You don't want to be idolatrous in any way, but, you know, Christianity is an incarnational

faith.

Totally.

So for me, right?

Right.

I examine whatever, even, you know, even a facsimile of this 1700 year old Bible.

It speaks to the fact that, you know, we're soul, we're spirit, and body.

That's right.

I can feel, you know, like people touched the hem of Christ's garment and were healed.

That's right.

Okay.

What else do we have?

I know.

I want you to hold this.

Good.

Jesus, in Matthew 19 says, it's easier for a rich man to go through the eye of a needle.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle.

Thank you.

And for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

You're holding a Roman needle, and you can imagine him holding that.

That is a first century Roman needle.

That is not a replica.

I got one more quick one.

Okay.

All right.

I need you to hold.

Now, this is brand new.

I did not have this for Michael Ann.

Yeah.

I need you to hold an actual crucifixion, though.

You held a replica before.

This was unearthed in Jerusalem.

I know it's first century because of the square shaft.

Put it against your wrist, and just get the feel.

So, and I want to ask you a question.

Do you notice how it's bent?

Yeah.

It's bent because it was used so many times.

They would reuse crucifixion nails on all of their prisoners.

So can you imagine, there's DNA on this, there's rust.

And the reason that it's bent, Michael, is they would want to minimize movement, but

maximize torment.

So they would adjust the nails while the victim was being crucified.

Here's the faith lesson.

Even the nails that put our Lord and Savior on the cross had probably been used on others

that deserved death, and yet he didn't.

That it never occurred to me, you know, all of the indignity of the cross.

Right.

And to thank.

Which is meant to use the nail.

A used nail.

Four of them.

You somehow always have the greatest goodie bag.

I have what you gave me.

I have that displayed in my office.

Right.

Whenever I walk into my office, there's a lot more to say first, though, go to hello.com

slash knolls.

Can it be?

Yes.

We're deep in land, walking steadily toward Holy Week, the cross and the resurrection.

This is not a season for the half-hearted lenses of summons to conversion, to strip away

what dulls the soul and return to God with sincerity.

This time of year demands movement, prayer, fasting, and self-gift, and our sponsor,

hello, helps you do that.

Do not drift through land, live it.

Such prayer.

Hello, can help you build daily habit that makes room for God's voice.

They have meditations on the passions, scripture, reflections, and the secret music.

Real prayer that draws you out of noise and into encounter.

Next, fasting.

Yes, from food.

But more often from what's poisoning your interior life.

Gossip, constant scrolling, cynicism, complaint.

Fasting is not punishment, it's clarity.

Freeze the heart and make space for grace, finally give.

Real charity always costs something.

Love for patience when you'd rather be sharp, mercy where you've been hurt, love when

it's undeserved.

Download hello today.

I love hello.

It's a wonderful app, spend intentional time in prayer, and meditate on God's love for

you.

You can get three months free at hello.com slash no's.

Wow.

We got more than a show.

Okay.

All right.

So, without further ado, I want to just talk about this whole day.

Yeah.

Let's engage others here, specifically heretics through woke TikToks.

Maga versus Jesus round 16.

Maga says real Christian support Trump.

But the Bible says those who say they love God that hate their neighbor are lying.

You cannot follow Jesus Christ while actively supporting politicians or policies that hurt

your neighbor, you know, like cutting their food aid or their health care.

Wrong.

Prove.

Maga says, we must protect Christian power.

But the Bible says my power is made perfect in weakness.

Christianity isn't about accumulating power.

That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the religion.

Instead what the gospel is about is creating peace through the presence of justice besides

Christian power is really just about propping up people who are already wealthy and powerful,

usually straight white men.

Maga says, destroy the people who oppose us.

But Jesus says, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.

More than the error is the cringe that bothers me.

It's so powerfully lame.

But would you like to take any particular aspect of his argument?

First I'm Maga.

I've never said any of those things that he claims to have said.

Every premise is wrong.

Ultimately, all what we just saw was a 101 heretical example of doing what's called

ice of Jesus.

Let me take a text out of context.

Let me put a gay looking, a woke perspective on it and let me do heresy.

Son, have you ever been in heresy lately since then unacceptable?

Jesus said, I've come to bring the sword.

He said that to follow him was to hate your mother, Luke 14, you've got to hate which

is a Greek idiom of preference.

Your mother, your father, your brother, sister, meaning you've got to put me first.

This is what I'm tired of.

I am tired of people that twist scripture.

There's a special place in hell for people that do that.

Then they pervert the gospel.

It is beyond the pale that anyone would actually listen to that, but unfortunately so many

people listen to that kind of terrible preaching.

That person is committing spiritual adultery right now.

They are in apostate and they are committing spiritual adultery.

They should have a big A on there.

The first one that came to mind, it was the first or second example where he's having

this imaginary conversation with a man of person that doesn't really resemble a real

man of person, but then he says, well, you can't be a Christian when you're harming your

neighbors.

The Republicans who want to cut food stamps, which they don't even actually want to do that.

Exactly.

Let's just say you can make an argument to reform welfare programs, but you say, okay,

man, but your side is calling for the wholesale slaughter of babies in the world, which is

not only...

And to be euthanized, by the way.

Yeah, that's right.

And to be euthanized.

Elderly people, sick people, even young people.

Not only can you point to much of scripture that would argue against that, but also we

just know, because Christianity has a lot of archeological evidence and documentary evidence,

we know that abortion has been explicitly prohibited by the church since the apostolic

age, at least.

The D.D.

Okay.

Second century, if not earlier.

And again, what is ridiculous about this is to use scripture, this person's demonic,

to use scripture, to try to say that Christianity doesn't care about people.

Christianity invented hospitals.

But you know, if you and I were sick in the first century, we'd go to the Temple of

the Esclapias, have to pay for healing.

Jesus healed people for free.

And guess what?

Modern health care comes out of the cut and thrust of the Christian movement.

Yeah.

In fact, the word hospital.

Yes.

We get low.

And it's hospitaler.

I don't know if you know this.

I was just a wef at the World Economic Forum, speaking in Davos.

I don't know if you know this.

Speaking of demons, do we have a question?

Yes, you do.

Jesus' name.

Yeah, yeah.

And I made it clear to all those individuals, the event horizon of free enterprise,

love, forgiving debts, loving your neighbor, being generous.

That event horizon comes from one moment.

And I said, it's not Marxism.

It's not socialism.

It's not wokeism.

You can see that me say this.

It's the resurrection of Jesus Christ in this amazing syndicate called the church.

I'm sure you had raucous applause for the World Economic Forum.

I have people staring at me cross-eyed.

Who is this?

We've never heard of before.

What have you to do with us?

Yes.

That's my response.

Okay.

Next one.

Jesus, walk around with a mouthful of scripture and I'll just go home, thank goodness.

Don't tell me what you believe.

Show me how you treat other people and I'll tell you what you believe.

Jesus didn't tell us to love our churches.

He didn't tell us to love our doctrines and our creeds.

He didn't even tell us to love our scriptures.

He told us to love our neighbors.

And there was no exception to that commandment.

Love thy neighbor, regardless of race, class, gender, sexual orientation or immigration

status.

One of my favorite theologians, Barbara Brown Taylor, once wrote, the only clear line

I draw these days is this.

When my religion tries to come between me and my neighbor, I will choose my neighbor.

Jesus never commanded me to love my religion.

He literally did, but yeah.

You know what's interesting?

Not once in the entire Bible does Jesus ask us to worship Him?

Oh my goodness.

All he asks is that we follow Him.

Well, oh my goodness.

Okay.

Just one before you go off.

He says, you know, Jesus told us to love our neighbors.

He doesn't tell us anything about loving our religion.

Religion, to quote our good friend, St. Thomas Aquinas, is a habit of virtue that implies

the will to give to God what he deserves.

That's right.

But before our Lord tells us to love our neighbor, the more important commandment that he gives

is actually to love God above all things.

Jesus replied, love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and

with all your mind.

It's a, the line he uses is a clever political line.

My opponents have a mouthful of scripture and a heartful of hate.

And yet, when I, it's a good turn of phrase, but I think it applies much more to him than

to his opponents.

This guy, I guess you would have to, you look at all the things he promotes, using scripture

so sacrilegiously, he promotes slaughtering infants, mutilating little kids, he refers to

God as LGBT, awful sorts of sacrilegian blasphemy.

And I guess the question I would have to say is, when you hear what he says and stands

for, does James Talleriko sound more like Christ or the Antichrist?

The Antichrist.

It's not even close.

I want at James, I would debate him any place, any time, any day of the week with two hands

tied behind my back, blindfolded because he twists scripture.

I want to say something to everyone watching.

This is a fact.

You can look this up with open doors, which is an international religious freedom network.

President Donald J. Trump is the most pro-religious freedom president of all time out of any

sitting president.

Nobody has been for more, and that's not just Christianity.

That's religious freedom.

He spoke at the UN when no other sitting president would.

And my pastor, Jack Ramms, it's on the religious freedom commission there in Texas.

And I can tell you this, everything that that man just said is false.

That's kind of like the line of Joe Pesci in my guess and be.

Everything that guy just said is BS.

I agree.

I agree.

Next one.

Are you an atheist?

For all practical purposes, yes.

Nobody can actually say for certain that anything doesn't exist.

But I'm an atheist in the same way as I'm an A-lepricornist and an A-fairyist and an A-pick-unicornist.

So you're not 100% sure God doesn't exist, but you're sure enough to make it practically?

I'm as sure as you are sure that fairies and leprechauns don't exist.

And do you see an equivalence between the idea of God and the idea of a fairy and a leprechaum?

The evidence for both is equally poor.

Oh my gosh.

This was 20 years ago.

This was what passed in the, not among intellectuals, but among kind of polite, yuppie society.

This was what the smart people believed.

Right.

And I tell you, it got me when I was a teenager.

That was kind of stuff really got me.

It took me away from the church, helped take me away from the church for 10 years.

Is there a flaw in his argument?

That was at the height of what was called new atheism, the forehorsement of the new atheist

movement.

Everything he said is a flaw.

The evidence that we have for God is unimpeachable.

The evidence that we have for the resurrection of Jesus Christ, as we've already said, is

unimpeachable.

It is a historical fact that Jesus rose from the grave on April 5, 8033.

We know that date with certainty.

The resurrection and the crucifixion are the best established fact of the ancient world.

So for him to compare God and the evidence for God with the tooth fairy or leprechauns,

the thing that drives me crazy, because Richard Dawkins is supposed to be intelligent and

is, I guess, educated in his field of study, which is not biblical studies.

No, no, it's evolutionary biology.

Yeah.

Topic for another time.

But it just, that statement, well, I don't believe in God because you don't believe

in leprechauns.

Oh, you know, which is reddit here, fedora tipping, atheism is, I remember Alvin Plantingger,

the Calvinist philosopher.

He was asked what he thought of the new atheists.

He said, I think they're far inferior to the old atheists, like Bertrand Russell.

Yeah.

At least Bertrand Russell was somewhat logical, and Bertrand Russell said he couldn't

find a flaw in the ontological argument for God.

What Dawkins seems blithely unaware of is that one, this question of the supposed attention

between faith and reason is one that has been taken up over the centuries, and that

the arguments for God's existence generally rest on natural reason.

Right.

So much so that the Catholic Church declares in the first Vatican Council that the existence

of God, not necessarily the resurrection, the person of Christ, the Trinity, the mysteries,

but the mere existence of God can be known with certainty strictly from human reason in

light of the created world.

You know, St. Thomas Aquinas famously has his five ways, his most famous, and his favorite

one rests on empirical evidence, observing change and motion in the world, but there are

many, many other arguments.

You just think...

Teleological argument.

Design.

The ontological argument.

All of it.

Cosmology.

Yeah.

Purpose.

Meaning.

And I want to say something.

My heart does go out to Richard.

I have a book called Unimaginable what the world would be like without Christianity in

part two, I studied these atheists.

And without getting into terrible detail, he had some serious childhood trauma, serious.

And when you look at the new atheists, most of them have broken relationships with their

dads.

Well, you know, Hitchens was public about this.

Right.

I mean, his mother called him, he missed the call, and then she stuck her head in an oven.

Exactly.

You know, I...

Right.

And they, same with Bart Airman, a problem of an experience of evil suffering and pain.

So, I don't want you to think that he doesn't believe in God for an intellectual reason.

It's an emotional reason.

Well, that's a good point.

Just crazy to say, you know, well, you know, I just didn't know proof of it.

You're not even...

You're putting yourself out there as the great debunker of Christianity.

You're not engaging with the most basic arguments of the question that is supposedly at hand.

Okay, next one.

When there are signs of physical maturity, it becomes permissible for the husband in

Islamic law to have marital relationships or consummate the relation with his bride.

And this is the example of the prophet, Peace be upon him.

You know what, Prokosh is puberty is?

Starting puberty unusually early.

Like, is there anything in Islam that prevents you from, you know, man marrying a five-year-old

that started Prokosh's puberty?

You can arrange a marriage, even as an infant, but that doesn't mean that sex is allowed.

But a man have a marriage to a five-year-old, consummate it if she started Prokosh's puberty.

If she starts showing signs of physical maturity, then yes, that's permissible, as I said,

principle.

Is that age four?

If there are signs.

Three.

So, this is something that becomes biologically impossible because Prokosh's puberty...

I have a study on how to go to Jerusalem in 11 months.

Well, that's something that the parents would not...

See, the thing about Islamic marriage is that parents are involved at these ages.

Yikes.

Everything...

I've read the Quran so you don't have to, by the way.

The thing he just said is endorsed by the Islamic Trilogy, which of course is the Quran,

Syra, Sunnah, Hadith, and there are four specific Ayahs that actually endorse what he just said in the Quran.

So, I want to make sure that people understand this is not an aberrant form of Islam.

If they actually read the Quran, they would see that sex slavery is not a bad thing.

It's funny because I remember I read the Quran at 14.

I don't think I made it all the way through, but I read a lot of it at 14.

Because everyone at the time, this is 2004, was saying that Islam is a religion of peace.

And I said, you know, it means submission.

Yeah, and I'm just looking around the world. I said, that doesn't...

I don't really buy that.

Right.

So, let me read it, and I was disabused of that popular discussion.

But I read it, and then I read it a little bit about the origins of Islam.

And what's interesting about it is it clearly begins as a Christian heresy.

It seems to be heavily associated with various ancient heresies, including Nestorianism and others.

Yes.

And you have this thought, especially reading my main man, Dante.

Dante, curiously, puts Muhammad with the Sismatics.

Yes.

So, as if Islam is just a sism from a break off of Christianity, which I kind of think it is.

You think, what if instead of encountering heretical monks or encountering heretical versions of Christianity around the Arabian world?

What if Muhammad had been exposed to an Orthodox guy, a guy who really believed the real religion?

He could have been, you know, all hypothetical.

But he could...

You could have a world in which Muhammad was a great figure of Christianity.

And where Arabia was Christian, where Islam didn't exist.

And it could have happened, you know, what it could have showed up.

But it is amazing.

Sometimes people, to tie it all back around to these ideas,

they'll say, you know, it's so crazy, and the Middle Ages are antiquity.

The church was so harsh on the heretics.

You know, you read Thomas Poinus on the heretics.

Yeah.

It's pretty tough.

Well, so is Jude.

He had 36 descriptors for him in the book of Jude.

Great point.

Why?

It's just, you know, in our free speech kind of era, we say, what's so bad about these bad ideas flowing around?

Well, the fruit of a bad idea, is that?

Bad ideas have body counts.

They have bought, wow.

And Islam, I would encourage people to check out my debate with Anyat Bunga Walla,

who is publicly supportive of Osama bin Laden after 9-11,

and Adnan Rashid, a Hades scholar.

And I just mopped the floor with them,

because all I did was keep quoting the Quran back to them.

What they're saying, the kefir, you and I are the kefir.

Yeah.

We're the infidel.

And you can do anything you want to the infidel.

And if you go inside the dome of the rock,

you will see, incised on the ceiling of the dome of the rock,

they believe that Islam is the culmination of Judaism and Christianity.

Right, right.

Period.

Yeah.

And it's curious, too, because the Jews are famous for infamous for denying the resurrection.

Everybody knows that.

But the Muslims deny the crucifixion.

Surah 4, ayah 157.

They crucified him not.

They crucified him not.

And then I think of, I think it's Philippians 318.

I might be getting it, I'm Catholic, so we don't do a chapter in verse 1.

But I think it's somewhere around there where St. Paul writes, he says,

there are many who are walking now, and I tell you even weeping,

who deny the cross of Christ.

That's right.

It's very interesting.

Yes.

Yeah, denying the resurrection is one thing, bad in itself,

but to deny the crucifixion.

An error in some ways worse, because it's on the cross in which Christ conquered death.

Right.

And it flies in the face of all the evidence.

I mean, I know atheists who will tell you the best established fact of the ancient world

is Jesus' death by Roman crucifixion.

Eson 14, 8033.

I'm going to say it on blue in the face.

It's April 3rd, which incidentally this year on Good Friday is April 3rd,

the very day that he was crucified.

And 8033.

That's ominous.

There are a lot of other sons out there.

I'm sort of waiting for the trumpets.

Yes, okay.

But I want people to know this is not an aberrant.

This is a text-based religion.

Islam is the greatest threat to Christianity around the world,

and they have grand designs, and they have the money to pay for it.

That good.

Are you a plusa-shange plusa-lamim shows?

Is this been going on for about 14 years?

Yeah.

Next one.

If you are Protestant, atheist, Muslim, or any religion that is not Roman Catholicism,

you will not go to heaven.

Oh, okay.

According to who?

I must have missed that part of the Bible.

In 1302, Pope Bonifesta 8th.

Ah, the Pope.

Okay.

So your Pope that you claim is enough.

Bonifesta is a controversial one.

Is the only way to salvation.

Okay.

An exact message is then reaffirmed by Pope Eugene IV.

Oh, it's reaffirmed by another Pope.

Okay.

Oh, must be true.

There is a tiny theological loophole that might change that.

Oh, cool.

There's a loophole.

Is it also in the Bible?

According to Catechism 847 and Lumen Gentian 16.

Wait.

Real quick.

Noah, why should we believe you in the Catholic Church?

We have 2000 years of church history to back up our theology.

So you say 2000 years validates Eos v.

But the Roman Catholic Church today isn't the same church as before.

And didn't Paul have to write letters to the early church

because they were getting corrupted?

Y'all submit to Jesus Christ, amen.

Okay.

Well, we might have to...

I actually don't know that we actually have different views on this.

The claims that the debunker is making are...

He's getting it stuff, which is that the early church,

they all disagreed.

Right.

Paul had to write and correct them.

And actually what I love about the apparent dispute between Paul and Peter and Acts,

what I love about it is Paul is much more of a theologian than Peter.

Right.

Paul is, in many ways, he's like more the active player than Peter is.

And yet, he brings these questions to Peter because the role of the Pope is misunderstood.

The Pope is not some wizard.

No.

The Pope is not necessarily...

We've had good theologians.

Absolutely.

The Bratzinger.

The Bratzinger.

Yes.

We've had very good theologians.

But not always.

Sometimes the Pope is just a guy...

Who's a white socks fan?

Who's a white socks fan?

Yes.

Sometimes the Pope is a guy who has to keep things together.

There's a famous phrase attributed to Augustine,

which drives from his teaching though he didn't literally say this,

which is Rome has spoken the matter has settled.

But one of the calls of the church is that the church be unified.

Right.

So there is a teaching, which is extra ecclesiom nulla solus,

outside of the church there's no salvation, which in principle,

I think every Christian would agree with,

because the church is the mystical body of Christ,

and some would kind of disagree over the nature of the body.

And to the point of the Catholic in the first video,

he says, well, because of the Second Vatican Council,

there is an understanding that, you know,

basically not all of the Protestants are necessarily damn to hell.

Or the Eastern Orthodoxy.

Yeah.

That's because of goodwill, because of all sorts of reasons.

So the debunker's problem is the one that gives me issue here,

because he's blithely writing off 2,000 years of church history.

Absolutely.

And a visible church.

I mean, hello.

Yeah.

In favor of a kind of pure private judgment of Scripture,

that I think is Protestantism gone much too far.

Absolutely.

Without a doubt.

And it's where many people are, especially in the online church age,

they're too godly to be part of a church.

Remember, no perfect church exists.

And I want to remind people, Acts 11 and Acts 15,

two Jerusalem councils were held as early as the Book of Acts,

and Brother James of Jesus hosted them.

There were disagreements, healthy disagreements.

What is the gospel?

Oh, we need to take care of the widows and the poor.

That's a big thing.

We need to flee sexual immorality.

So these kind of healthy debates are great,

but Michael, the reason I love you in your show,

is you actually get beyond the sound bites and you get into substance.

Yes.

We cannot be educated by that.

We cannot be educated by a sound bite.

Yeah.

We believe in the unified church.

And the gospel says in Romans 10-9,

my nine-year-old triple, it's just memorized this.

If you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead,

and you proclaim that Jesus is Lord,

you will be saved.

So that's if you're a Catholic, if you're an Eastern Orthodox,

if you are a Protestant, if you're an atheist right now.

Well, don't you want to let the Eastern Orthodox?

Yes, absolutely.

Any Romans 10-9?

No.

Romans 10-9, I believe they're believers in all of the,

I believe in the unified church.

There is an power of the gospel.

There's a very interesting conversation to be had on the

sacramental aspect.

Absolutely.

And you, being a Protestant,

have maybe more than any Protestant friend of mine.

And I have many of them who yell at me all the time.

But you have a keen appreciation,

of the sacramental, of the physical.

Yes.

Because it's an act of worship,

and it brings you close to Jesus,

and you understand it in its context.

Yeah.

Okay, that's all right.

Let's see if those TikTokers want to react to our reaction,

to the guys' reaction, to the first reaction.

Excellent.

What is the difference between Orthodox and Catholicism?

So, theologically, there are a number of differences,

but I'll tell you why we claim to be the original church.

We were one church until the year 1054,

where the great schism took place.

And of course, for a couple hundred years before that,

things had started to split up a little bit.

The Roman Catholic Church, historically,

can claim to be part of that original church,

but theologically, they changed.

In the Roman Catholic Church,

they have changed an apple,

one thing, the infallibility of the Pope.

We don't believe that the Pope is infallible.

We believe that when Christ spoke to Peter and said,

I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven,

he was actually talking to all the disciples,

who are his successor.

And we, the clergy of the Orthodox Church,

are the successors of the apostles.

Through ordination, you might think ordination wasn't in the Bible,

but it was.

It's called the Greek keretonia,

which means the laying on of hands,

and that's how you see it.

Okay, I thought he was hit in filio.

Yeah, yeah.

But he did.

He was feeding from the father and the son.

Okay, can I take this one for a second, Michael?

So, Eastern Orthodoxy, and again,

there are two things I appreciate about Eastern Orthodox,

and there are seven reasons I'm not an Eastern Orthodox.

I actually just gave a talk on this on YouTube.

I love their churches, their cruciform, their worshipful,

and I love the fact that one third of our 5,800 Greek New Testament

fragments are protected right now by the Greek Orthodox Church

in many persecuted lands.

Mount Athos alone has over 1,000 Greek manuscripts.

And so, let me say that for any Eastern Orthodox Greek,

or Orthodox who's watching, I appreciate that.

Here comes the butt.

But, here's the butt.

There's actually seven reasons I'm not a Greek Orthodox.

But the main one is, they don't have any theology.

They don't agree with each other.

It's all goes back to what their local bishop,

and do you know that the Eastern Orthodox Church, Michael,

has become one of the greatest persecutors of Christians

in the world?

Are you aware of this?

I'm not.

Because it becomes a state religion.

Yeah.

So, you go to places like we have ministries where we go to Romania,

and we go to other places where they believe

you don't even have to have an act of faith to be an Eastern Orthodox.

I could baptize you Eastern Orthodox if we live in Romania.

You never have to express faith in Jesus of any kind

and your Greek Orthodox and your good.

So, then we're going to persecute anyone who tries to give you the gospel,

even in prison you for trying to lead you to a personal relationship.

That is factual.

So, they've gone from being persecuted themselves.

You know, you look at the Bolshevik revolution,

you look at all of it,

and now they're one of the greatest persecutors

of non-Eastern Orthodox Christians.

And that's one of the biggest reasons I'm not an Eastern Orthodox.

Yeah, it's funny because...

Beyond the fact they have no theology that's unified.

Yeah, this is one of the issues.

I got in trouble recently.

Because?

I know, occasionally I do.

And I got in trouble because I made this claim.

I said, you know, the Eastern Orthodox,

they've flirted with every heresy.

But it was actually misinterpreted,

because as much as I would like to be chauvinistic

in my religious views,

and kind of mock the Eastern Orthodox,

I really have a great deal of respect for you.

Absolutely.

I love the liturgy is great.

I love the icons.

They don't have chairs in their churches.

Yeah, no, I actually like that.

You know why I like it?

I like it because...

Look, I don't want it to be too Islamic-ready.

Yeah.

But I like the idea that one is kneeling or smoothing.

Yes.

You know, I actually...

I think pews are too modern, okay?

But all of that...

There we disagree.

Yeah.

I mean, it's like...

I'll sit.

Like, I'm not above sin.

Jesus sat when he taught the Bible just so you know.

We could have a nice lounge.

Yeah, he sat the whole...

Every time he taught, he sat.

Yeah, okay.

Well, look, that gives me a justification.

Yeah, Rabbi Jesus.

Don't forget that.

But I...

The East...

Maybe just...

It was a geographical fact.

A lot of heresies came in there.

Sometimes there'd be ecumenical councils.

The Eastern bishops, they would...

And this is before the greats...

This is before the greats.

It's clear.

Seven ecumenical councils.

Yeah, and they...

So, they would...

They'd go in, they'd go back home, they'd disagree with the councils.

There were all these issues.

Then it became fused with the state.

So, you had a kind of Cesaro papers and...

Totally.

Well, very interesting, speaking of that previous video.

One of the great battles in the Middle Ages was between Dante and Boniface III.

Yes.

Boniface III was claiming a lot of temporal power.

Dante said, no, there's actually a distinction between the temporal and the spiritual power.

The temporal power should be illuminated by the spiritual power.

It's a synmonarchia, but they're distinct.

Monarchia, which was then put on the index of prohibited books,

but then taken off the index by, I think, it was Leo XIII,

who was an inspiration for Leo XIV, the current Pope.

All sorts of interesting reasons as to why that happened.

But because of that, I do think the East has been subjected to a lot of bad political pressures,

including Islam.

Absolutely.

We even mentioned Islam.

And so, it's a labor...

What happens at St. Catharines right now?

Yes.

Yes.

And I love the Eastern Orthodox guy.

He says, look, when Jesus is talking to Peter and he says,

here are the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven,

I read that as he's talking to all the apostles.

It was kind of funny, because the way he himself raised it was,

when he's talking to Peter, he said, all right, well, he's talking to Peter.

Maybe he's talking to Peter.

And the Eastern Orthodox can point out all of the problems and difficulties

and struggles that have happened in their Catholic Church.

Very few people are more sensitive to that than I am.

I know, trust me, I could give you 100 more.

But this is something we see in the ancient world,

is that our Lord wants unity, I think, among the churches.

Absolutely.

There's not to diminish the role and the responsibility of the other bishops,

but yeah, if your point is it's hard and slow-going and problematic

to have a unified church and these guys in Rome, they mess things up sometimes

and, gee, you don't say, tell me something I don't know.

Nevertheless, we want, you know, when we recite the creed

that even without the Filioque clause, which should be in the creed,

and anyway, we say at the end, what do we say?

I believe.

I believe.

I believe.

Yes, we believe in one holy Catholic in Apostolic Church.

Absolutely.

And we'll get the Eastern back at some point.

Okay, next one.

Realistically, we have no way of actually knowing who this belonged to.

Oh, my gosh.

And random guy.

It's not like we have a sample of Jesus's DNA to compare it with,

but what we do find from a close examination of the blood is that it's not blood.

It's just die made from red ochre and vermilion.

Bloodstain pattern analysis shows that the stains don't make any sense

and are unrealistic for a crucifixion.

The shroud's fabric was made from a herringbone weave.

One far more complex than any type of fabric we see used in burials during the first century.

Radio carbon dating methods from three independent sources

place the actual age of the shroud between 1260 and 1390.

The same time when it first went on display at a French church.

Based on these facts, we can be supremely confident

that the shroud of turn is a fraud.

But even if it were real, it wouldn't prove anything.

Okay, well, did he convince you?

Were you wrong?

This is a hold my Diet Coke moment, if you don't mind.

Okay, the blood samples were done by two Jewish hematologist, Helen Adler.

It's type A, B, blood.

It's human blood.

It's type A, B, blood.

And we can even distinguish the post-mortem blood

from its separation from the serum where Jesus is pierced through the rib five and six.

So again, Barry Schwartz, who is the documenting photographer of the shroud of turn, who was a Jew,

for 17 years, even after he took the photograph.

Do you know what caused him to go from being skeptical?

Even though he was the documenting photographer, it was the blood.

He said the blood put it beyond no doubt.

Six percent of the world's population is type A, B, blood.

Okay, period.

So much has happened since we talked about the shroud last time.

I told you that the British Museum suppressed the raw data of the carbon dating of the shroud for 27 years.

And Tristan, my buddy, just did a book on it.

Thirdly, I just met with Bruno Barbaris.

And by the way, the irony of his last name is not lost on me.

I write about that in the Jesus discoveries.

He took all of the factors, and I actually have a picture of it in my book that is so fun,

because actually, his fact, Bruno Barbaris is a mathematician at the University of Turin.

And he put a mathematical equation to all of the aspects of the shroud, the crucified man,

and how they match up with what Scripture says about how Jesus was crucified.

He said there is a one in 200 billion chance it's anyone other than Jesus from the Bible.

Having said all that, it's not a forgery.

I want you to hold something cool.

I didn't have this last time.

All right.

We're looking right here at a Roman solidus.

That is from Justinian II, late seventh century.

And what is the first thing that you think of when you see the face on that coin?

It looks like Jesus.

The face of the shroud.

This is the first coin that ever had the face of Christ on it.

So it was a very bold move.

What year is this from?

This is from the late 600th seventh century.

Wow.

So by the way, 700 years before the supposed carbon dating, what's the source material if the shroud didn't exist?

You remember sketch artists in a criminal defense?

You know, they would sketch a criminal.

This is like four times what's accepted in the court of law to match the shroud of turn.

And I want to say something else that is so important.

Wax is dating.

Wide angle x-ray scattering has showed that the shroud is, in fact, 2000 years old.

There's actually five different ways that we date the shroud that I write about in my book.

The shroud is the greatest gospel evangelism tool I've ever seen, Michael.

This is, you know, it takes a lot to really impress me.

Let's go.

This is cool.

Well, I had to elevate my game from last time.

Yeah, and you did a good job last time.

So, too.

Wow.

All right.

What are you going to do next time you come?

Dude.

What are you going to bring?

I'm just getting started.

Are you going to have to bring the Dead Sea Scrolls?

I have them.

I can do that.

I can do that.

I can bring the great Isaiah scroll.

It's all in here.

The book.

The book is Jesus Discoveries.

Go get it.

Get it right now.

Let's go.

Jeremiah Johnston.

You're a scholar in a gentleman.

That was fabulous.

Is that all right?

Okay.

I mean, how long?

I mean, how is it?

This, this Augustus one.

Insane.

Well, no, Augustus is right here.

Yeah.

Jackson Hewitt has a great tax prep deal, $149 or less.

Missing out is like ignoring the check engine light in your car.

You regret it.

Seriously, the price is only $149 or less, no matter how complicated.

So don't wait.

Like, when you get a password expires today alert, or you're shopping online, and there's

only one item left.

It's like your taxes are in the cart.

Just complete the purchase.

Hurry.

This deal for $149 or less is like your phone at 1%.

It's about to power down.

Limited time offer for new clients on federal returns participating locations only.

In terms of Jackson Hewitt.com, slash $149.