War Was the Easy Part | Eduardo Garduno

0:00Hey guys, welcome to the teamhouse. My name is Jack Murphy and I'm here with today's guest, Eduardo Garduño. He is a ranger that served in second ranger battalion, was a mortar guy, 11 Charlie, did deployment staff, Gainist Dance, Syria, Iraq. I just read your unpublished memoir, Eduardo, and it's a pretty compelling story. You had a pretty wild upbringing. And a pretty tough transition, I think, out of the military, into the police force, into the private sector. So we'll talk about all this stuff during the interview, but Eduardo, thank you for joining us and being well in the share your story. Yeah, happy to be here. Just tell my point of view and it helps people along the way, helps them get the resources they need and that's all I'm really excited for. Yeah, that's great. So let's start at the beginning. Tell us a little bit about your family and what your upbringing was like.

1:00Yeah, it was on paper. It's a lot worse than what it sounds, but as a kid, it's what I was used to. My dad was an immigrant from Mexico at five years old. He was working fields and he had the mentality through his whole career of landscaping and just that Mexican mentality of, I'm going to be the provider. I'm going to do everything in my power to work six days a week and just that mentality really left a lot of open doors for me just to do whatever I wanted as a kid. Both parents always said, work, my wife did your typical housekeeping and my dad did landscaping and between the two of them, they were too busy working to actually take care of me. So I was just left alone to my own devices and unfortunately I was surrounded with all the wrong people. So I just leaned into that. You had a big family too, right? A lot of brothers and sisters. Yeah, it was kind of, there's such a huge age gap that only my older brothers, the one, like my older brother, my first sister are really the only ones that I really consider

2:04brothers. The rest are more like an uncle, they're so young. Oh, I got a good tip. They're like 10 years old right now. It's like, yeah, they're brother, but I don't really know them like that. The only person I really know is my brother who I grew up with and he wasn't exactly your typical role model. Yeah, I mean, in your book, what really came through, I thought was interesting, was like, how hard a worker your dad was. And like, he was like really just like grindstone all day. And trying to do the best he possibly could for the family, but at the same time, it sounded like he had his own misgivings too at certain points. Yeah, I think alcohol was his biggest coping mechanism. He drank until the age of 41 and that was most of my childhood, unfortunately. And then it was just a lot of him drinking, me realizing we're poor and we don't have food. And you know, he has $20. What's he going to spend it on? Alcohol or buying us more food or buying this shoes, buying his clothes?

3:07Well, it was alcohol. I saw that and I just didn't agree with it. It made me angry a lot of the time. So it was just, I took the good and the bad, you know? Yes, I learned a lot of good lessons on how to work, you know, at the age of like 10, he was, I was already doing landscaping all the way up until 18 where I was like, I don't want to do landscaping for the rest of my life. I'm going to do something else. And, you know, you work a bit of a trouble maker in school, right? You get sent to the principal's office quite a bit. Yeah, I feel like it's a common theme for a special operation. Yeah, I just, it was the lack of attention I was getting at home, you know, looking at, looking back at it and now it's obvious that I wasn't getting that attention at home. So I looked pretty at school and unfortunately, though, the way I got the attention was, I'd have to be louder than everyone else. I'd have to be more disruptive. And it worked. I got the attention I was looking for. It just wasn't in the best manners.

4:09And could you describe a little bit like as you started to hit your teenage years, you know, where you guys were living, you're out in California as I recall and your older brother got mixed up and some really bad stuff as you guys, you know, grew up. Yeah, I was starting to begin, you know, elementary, like really young age, like the first thing I remember is like five years old, you know. I had a, we lived in Section A housing and for whatever reason, kid brain, you know, I didn't think clearly and the first real memory I have of my father is there's a ball stuck on a roof or an airplane. I don't remember what it was. I just remember not a roof on the tree. And I remember wanting to get it. So I went inside and my dad had all this landscaping equipment because he did landscaping on the side and there was some rope. So I grabbed the rope and being a five year old kid, I don't know how to tie a ranger school with knots yet. I haven't been there yet. But I get, I somehow I get the, get it over a branch. So I get it and even it out and in my kid logic brain, I was like, I'm going to tie it

5:12around my neck and pull myself up, you know, to go get this airplane. It's like some buggy bunny logic. Yeah. Yeah. So I get around my neck. It's not tighter, and it is just like your typical one, one loop knot and I'm going to pull in and then I see my dad running out screaming at me. And for the first time, I saw a motion in his eyes, you know, I saw him like actually scared and like sad and he ran, he grabbed the rope. He's just not, I was expecting him to scream at me, you know, I was doing something wrong in my mind. And he just looks at me, he just hugs me, he doesn't say anything, he just hugs me and he starts cheering up, but he's not saying anything. And after a little while, like a minute or two pass and he's still hugging me and he finally clears his throat, he's like, what are you doing? It's like, I wanted the ball or the airplane arm, remember what it was, but I wanted to grab it, he's like, why didn't you just ask me? And like he just goes back inside, grabs a ladder and gets it down and plays with me for a little bit. But that's like one of the core memories, like that's like the first thing I remember

6:13from my childhood was my dad being an actual father figure, which in today's world, it's really hard to come by. Sure, absolutely. But from there, it's just a lot of the same, you know, my dad's shrinking, I'm bringing him beers. I come to realize the more beers I'm bringing them, the more generous he is with money. And it was, it was your typical, you know, they drink a case, they go to the liquor store and they, they get more beer. And I have a vivid memory of, I was a reason behind them getting a, my uncle losing his vehicle and getting a driving without a license ticket. And this was young. I was probably like, if I had a guest like six, seven years old, really young. They're going to liquor store. I know if I go, they're going to buy me chips or something because they're drunk and they're a little more friendly after they had a couple beers. So we're driving and my dad would always put the seatbelt on me. It was just a booster seat. He put the seatbelt on me and I brought a toy with me.

7:15It was just a little plastic toy I remember what it was. And I dropped it. So I leaned down, picked it up and when I'm up, we're pulling over. I was like, this isn't the beer store. And I look back and the red and blue lights are flashing. And my dad's just called for me, oh, it's okay. You know, it's probably just, it's nothing serious. Probably just a tell, whatever. He'll talk to us and we'll get going. And as the officer, officer approaches the window, he's telling my dad the reason for the, or my uncle was the one driving. My dad was passionate. He's telling me the reason for the stop was because I didn't have a seatbelt on. And I was like, but I did have a seatbelt on. I just reached out and grabbed the toy. It was just, I pulled it off and leaned down. Right. And, and the officer was like, yeah, well, I still have problem cause, blah, blah, blah. And they went the whole back and forth. He's like, I know you guys have been drinking. I could smell it. I'm going to cut you guys a break. I know because my uncle didn't have a license because he was an immigrant. He's like, I'm going to cut you guys a break. I'm going to tow the car and then just ride you to take it and then you guys could just

8:16walk and me as a kid, you know, I don't know. But I thought this was all my fault. And I carried that guilt for way too long. I'm talking like recently, like the last two years I finally was able to let some of that go. But we, he lets us go and we still walk to the beer store. We still go and get alcohol. And at that point, I don't want anything, you know, I'm just, I'm just so guilty that I lost my uncle's car and got him a ticket. And obviously they told me, you know, it was your fault because, you know, they stopped, they stopped us because of you. So I carried that guilt. And then just from there that hatred towards police officers really grew. And in my mind, it was just, it was just like he didn't take the time to actually like listen. And it was just like, okay, yeah, he's cut us a break. But in the long run, I actually believe it was doing more, more bad than good, you know, creating that divide of just like lower income people were, they were always like in that

9:16neighborhood. So it was obviously why, you know, I do, I did it too as a police officer later in life, you know, lower income people, you're going to have more crime. It's just factually correct. But early, that early on is when I started to lean towards of like helping people and what was the best way I could do it? And I leaned into like Gandhi, you know, be the change you want to see in the world. And I just despised cops from that one incident. I have a couple more incidents down the road, but that's where it started. From there, a lot of the same, you know, growing up as a kid, not having enough money, clothes, shoes, whatever. And it was just normal. I didn't care. I got my hand-me-downs from my older brother who was big until, you know, your oversized triple A shirt, sticky pads. And that was my hand-me-downs. I didn't have a choice. I didn't get to pick what clothes I got. It was up to me. You know, I'd want clothes that fit. Personally, that's just my style. But I got a lot of this, uh, tickeys, you know, your generic fans, you know, whenever

10:17you think of a gang shirt, that's what I was wearing. And that's like, I still have this lickback hair. Like, California gangster, I think, like, in those days, the flannel shirt with the top button. Oh, I couldn't afford the flannel shirt, so I just had the triple A. But that's how I would dress. And it wasn't by choice, you know, it was by hand-me-downs. And from there, we, that was one section A housing. And then we upgraded to another section A housing. We were on a weightless for a little bit. And this is like a, the Stowe Elementary School, like, uh, fourth, fifth grade, uh, uh, no, 9-11 arrow was when we moved over to these new apartments. And it was nice. Like, I didn't know what, like, a house was yet. I didn't know people can have pools, so like, going from, like, terrible section A housing to nicer section A housing, because this was newly built. And my parents were on the weightless, and they got in somehow. And we moved to this new section A housing.

11:18And it's nice there. They have, like, a computer science lab where it's like this room where you go and, like, do activities. They have apple trees. They have, like, open field of grass. You could play soccer and, like, all the neighborhood kids would just go outside and meet up there, because there was nothing else to do. But when we moved there, it was, it was better. But the biggest issue was the people all surrounded with, you know, it was a lot of people that were left alone, home alone with no real role models, because everyone's working. So you just hang out with the neighborhood kids that are up to no good, you know, breaking windows, throwing water balloons, just just getting into your typical trouble. It was at this apartment. I had a very memorable experience. I was still a kid, so, like, I was interrupted by my surroundings. Yeah. Once I was, like, in third grade. That's just around the guest. I was young. And it was Halloween.

12:19And believe it or not, we were the kids that took your boy, but we were respectful. We left the bowl. We took all the candy and they just dumped into the pillowcase and they kept walking. But as we were doing this, we're going looking for all the nice neighborhoods, the big houses, you know, that don't bother to stand up the door and hand out candy. So we're just grabbing bowls and we're making our lap and we make it down to like 13th Street. It's getting territory owned by some West Sideers, you know, local game stuff. I didn't know any of this. I knew I wanted candy. I knew my pillowcase was almost full. It's almost time to go home. But as we're walking there, it's me, my brother, a cousin, and then just one of our friends that, a neighborhood of friends, that for whatever reason, his parents oblivious to the world didn't understand that a Diablo mask represented the opposing gang. And as we're walking here, we started hitting your typical gang whistle, you know, and we're

13:20looking around and there's these two, in my mind, they were dressed up as gangsters. It was too female. I was dressed up as gangsters. And they grabbed like my cousin's pillowcase full of candy and they're like, give me this. We're taking it. And my cousin's like, no, she's a little kid, you know, fighting back. He was younger than me at the time. And he was just fighting back, pulling on the pillowcase. He's like, let go, you fucking weeny. And little did he know, he was like a church going kid. He didn't really understand insult at the time. So he said the worst possible thing. Oh, we need to, a West Sideers, like saying the end word to a black person. Oh, really? So, yeah, so it's that serious. It's like the worst thing you'd possibly say. And when he said that, they let go. And we're like, sweet, let's go, let's run. So he started running and then they do their gang whistle. And it's just like a mob starts forming. Like people are like coming out of the woodworks, I don't know where. Like there's people sitting on porches and they start chasing us and like, well, I didn't know as a kid, I didn't want to get hurt, so I just kept running.

14:20And I remember running. And at some point, I remember seeing my friend from school, his name was Mark. And he's on a bike passing us. And we just look at each other very confused because he was chasing me, but I was running with my friends. And he didn't know why we were running. And I didn't know why they were chasing. But I was so fast that I just kept on running. I didn't look back. And then I ran all the way home and I looked back every now and then and they were all still behind me. So I just kept on running. And somehow for whatever reason, they didn't catch any of us. Like there was people with bats and stuff and like just screaming every slur you could possibly think of. And we're going to get you. We're going to hurt you. If you're going to catch me, I would drop this candy and keep running if you guys get close. But somehow, we might just keep our candy and we made it all the way home. And later in life, I found out why they were chasing us. You know, my brother explained it to me. But at the time, I didn't know. Like I was just a kid. You know, I was in the sand at the time. I was into causing chaos yet. But that was very memorable for me. That's when the shift started changing.

15:21Oh, wait, the world's actually dangerous. People actually hurt you out here. And then, in elementary school years is where I learned like there was this boxer guy, the same guy on the bike, his name was Mark. And everyone left him alone for whatever reason. And then we were friends. So I asked him, I was like, why don't people mess with you? And he just explained he's like, yeah, man, I will be the share of them. I was like, oh, sweet. I was like, how? He's like, I've been boxing forever. I was like, well, you might have I say I've been boxing with you. And he's like, no, go ahead. I was like, all right, I've been boxing. How long have we been boxing for? He's like, bro, I've been boxing since I was like two years old. I was like, me too. In reality, I haven't been boxing at all whatsoever. I just, it was building a persona. And from there, like people just stop messing with me knowing that I had him as a friend. Because it was essentially protection. No one wanted to mess with the guy who's best friends with a boxer.

16:23That was elementary. No one really picked on me then. It wasn't until middle school where I started to develop. I had to hurt people first before I got hurt. It's terrible logic. I understand that now, but as a kid, you know, I truly believe that. And that's really where I started getting in trouble a lot more. Where I have a lot of like fights and stuff, just, just childhood fights. And I was very analytical about it. I was not picking a fight unless I knew I can win. And I studied people's foot movement there, stance. And what I did is I just punch you as hard as I can my first punch. And then just bomb rush you until you gave up or until you were separated. Because most fights in the school only last like 30 seconds. Right. Until they get separated. So I knew if I hit you first, you're throwing off your game. And I could just punch you as many times as I want. And then someone's going to separate us eventually. So I just kept that mentality. You know, I got into two fights. And for what our reason, we never got caught. It was one was in a bathroom. And this was my first fight.

17:24It was in a bathroom where the floor was way too wet. There was way too many people in this bathroom. And we're just dancing at this point. No one's getting hurt. We're throwing punches. And we're just like catching each other with hugs. And at the end of it, we just hug it out. We're like, all right, bro, it's over. We got our emotions out. We're cool again. We're friends again. And I was like, man, that didn't really have the effect I wanted. It didn't build the persona of, leave me alone. So I decided to pick another fight. And this one's kind of rough, because it was a close friend of mine. And I picked the fight on purpose. I knew what I was doing. I knew if I'd bullied him enough sooner or later, he'd want to fight me. And I knew I could be his ass because I was bigger than him. And he wasn't a fighter. So after picking on him, just messing pushing him in the hallway, you're very generic textbook, bully, slapping the books out of his head just because I could. He finally had a knife. He's like, you know what? I'm a fighter after school. I was like, sure, pick a day.

18:25And being a bad kid, I had his attention that day. And luckily, I had a friend, his name was Carlos. And I was like, hey, bro, can you sign me in? And you're at the attention. He's like, oh, yeah, I got you. I was like, sweet. I have my alibi. And we just did this for each other, because we both were bad kids. And he didn't want to go home, because he went home to an abusive house. And he's like, I'd rather just cause trouble at school and stay at school. So I don't have to deal with it as much. So he signs me into the attention. So I had my alibi in my mind. Little bit, I know they have cameras everywhere. As a kid, you're not thinking about these things. So we pick our spot. And it's way too many people. They're security. They know it's going down. But we get there early enough to where it's like a two-minute fight. And the first thing I do is like, I was like, you don't want to fight me. I'm going to hurt you. I'm just going to start talking shit to get in their head. And the whole time before we even start fighting, I'm just going, you're going to lose this. And I'm sorry, man. You're just going to cry afterwards. And he's doubting himself at this point.

19:27He's not as confident as me. I just knew if I was the first to hit, in my mind, you know, it's like, I've got to get my first punch in. So there's all this back and forth banter. And finally, someone was like, I was just fine. I was like, sweet. I was like, you ready? He's like, yeah. So I run Superman punch of as hard as I could. And he's up in a corner in like a cutoff section, under some stairs in my middle school. And I just start blom rushing him. And he's like going fetal position, trying to cover his face. And I'm punching him in his face as hard as I can. And I don't, I heard someone say, like, chill or stop. And I couldn't, like, I just let the rage control me. I just kept going. And at this point, I'm punching him as hard as I can. And it wasn't until someone said security that I finally stopped. And I took off running. You're not catching me. You're not catching me fighting. So I ran.

20:27And I just kept running. I ran all the way home. It was like three miles. I get home. I turned on the TV. I pretend like nothing happened way for my parents to get home. And the next day, I get called into the office. And they call my mom. They call my parents. My mom's the only one that drives my dad still to this day doesn't drive because he was an alcoholic. And in his mind, he told us, if I'm going to be an alcoholic, I'm never going to drive because I want to stay here. I don't want to have a DUI. I don't want to crash and kill someone. But my mom shows up to the principal's office. And she's full attorney mode at this point. I told her my side of the story. I told her my lie. She believed it. I was like, I was in detention. I don't know what they're talking about. If you look at the time, I was at detention the whole time. And then I just walked home with my friends. And my friend was like, yeah, yeah, we were at detention together. They didn't believe a word we said. They saw the video. They saw me running. And their parents, they go back and forth.

21:29And they agree on suspension. I was like, there's two day suspension. I was like, sweet. I don't have to go to school. I didn't want to go to school anyways. I hate going to school. I don't learn anything. I'm not paying attention. That was my first suspension. And the next one was a lot more personal to me. And to this day, I still believe I'm 100% in the right. My friend, his name was Saul. And good friends growing up, childhood friends, we elementary middle school. I knew him very well. We were very close friends. And one day, I hear from my parents that one of my friends got ran over on 13th Street. And it was a hit and run. And he was struggling. It's really bad. And to a kid, I don't believe it. I was like, I'm going to see him at school tomorrow. And then this is all going to be cleared up. And it was in until a week later that he showed up. And he's in a wheelchair immobilized from the neck down. Absolutely paralyzed.

22:29And it's the talk of the school. Everyone's talking about it. And I vividly remember going to science class. And I'm behind this one kid talking to his friend about the incident. And he said, and I quote, he fucking deserved it. Oh, really? I was like, I was like, hey, bud, what'd you say? And he repeated it. So I punched him as hard as I could. I didn't even think about it. This was just reaction. I punched him as hard as I could in his face. And this was like walking into a classroom where the science teacher was right there. And he felt to the ground started crying. I stepped over him and just went to my seat and sat down. And I was just so mad. That was like the only way I can calm down is if I go sit down or else I'm going to go back and hurt him some more. But I had already did what I wanted, because he was on the ground crying. I was like, he learned his lesson. And this one, this one I was on paper. Yeah, I was wrong. But morally in my mind, I thought I did everything.

23:33I didn't sell my integrity for like I didn't sit there and do nothing. Because in my mind, if I would have sat there and just listened and let him disrespect my friend like that, who is now immobilizing and a wheelchair from the neck down and you're insulting him. But I got, I went back to the principals office. They know me at this point. I'm the troublemaker always speaking out of class at a turn, flirting with the girls. Very generic high school bully. And at this time, it's a white family. You know, I'm going to be a higher income, higher class. And they want to press charges. And they want to throw the book at me. And my mom, again, she comes in here at turn. He was like, yeah, but what he said was wrong. And my son just reacted to what he said. If he never said that, my son would have never punched him in his face. He deserved it. And I'm being super nosy. I'm in the hallway. And I can hear all this conversation. I remember it because I was there. I listened to my mom. She's just go back and forth with the principal.

24:35And she's screaming at him. She does not care. I'm her little baby boy. And in her mind, I'm innocent, even though I was in the greatest role model. But she's going back and forth. And finally, they agree on a week's suspension and anger management classes. So I didn't have a say in it. I did it. I went home for a week. And I was like, sick. I get to just be home and eat the limited food there is and watch TV. I wasn't super poor to where there was no food. It was just tortillas, rice, and beans, very generic low-income stuff. So there was food. It just wasn't what I wanted. So what I would do is I'd go to the bonds. It's just like your supermarket store, like giant or whatever. I don't know your East Coast. I don't know what's up there. But it's just a more super-wide. I was like a CVS or shopwright, something like that. So I just go in there and steal. And at one point, the manager saw me.

25:38And I was stealing kid brain stuff. I was like, I'm hungry. I'm going to steal some candy. I'm going to steal the biggest chocolate bar because that's going to fill me up the most with nuts in it. The big Hershey's with the nuts. And I was like, yeah, that's going to give me the most amount of fulfillment. So one day she catches me. She's like, why do you always come in here and steal just chocolate bars? And I was like, because I'm hungry. And she's like, oh, why don't you steal actual food? And I was like, why would I do that? I was like, I'm hungry. I'm going to eat the chocolate. That's what I want to eat. And she's like, I know you come in here and steal. I know that every time you walk in, I don't care enough. I don't get paid enough to stop you. But if you want food, just take the actual food. It's more beneficial. And she's like, I'm going to look the other way. But you do you essentially is what she told me. And unfortunately, I was like, OK, I could just take whatever I want now. So I went back and just started taking random magazines like that I didn't need.

26:39And just all this gum that I wasn't supposed to have in school. And it was just routine at that point. I'd go in there in the morning, grab a gum. And sometimes I pay for it just even at the scales a little bit if I had money from helping my dad out. But a lot of times I just take it because it was free. And there was no consequences to my actions. I've heavily remembered buying gum one time. And the principal to the schools behind me is like, you're not supposed to have that. I was like, I was like, and you're not supposed to talk to me outside of school. Fuck off. And he just looked at me confused. He's like, why is so disrespectful? I was like, you disrespecting me first. Don't talk to me. But just the ego part of it. That middle school age is where I really developed that. I have to be bigger and better and stronger. And I have to prove myself. Hey guys, this episode is sponsored by Cash App. I use it. I love it.

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30:47Some exclusions apply, see site for details. Well, isn't there one incident where your buddy stole something too and he was like pretty dumb about it and he got both of you caught? Yeah. Yeah, this was, I wanna say it was like right before I went to high school, so eighth grade. And we're at the shopping mall and I know shopping malls are way more secure like your generic no camera stores. At this point, I was very seasoned in the art of stealing. I've done it enough times to where you just walk past a grab and slip in your pocket that you don't make eye contact with them, they don't make eye contact with you, they're not gonna notice. So I went in there with, I had money, I had $20. I went in there for headphones. I wanted to be able to listen to music on this old super old computer that was a hand me down to us. It was just that childhood age of playing video games and stuff and I was like, I just wanted to listen to music. And I asked my dad, I was like, yeah, you can have $20.

31:48I wanted to buy some headphones. He's like, yeah, sure. Here you go. And cool. I'm gonna go to the mall tomorrow and let him know where I am and all that. And to be able to put my friends, we decided to go together. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go to the mall. I just go to the US one and come. Like, oh yeah, sure. I just wanna buy some headphones and that's it, I'm not really looking for shopping around. When we get there, we're all hungry. We're kids, we don't think about, we're not planning for being hungry and stuff. And my friends like, oh, he ordered some food and he's like, oh man, I'm sure you can have a barrel of 10 bucks. I was like, sure, here's the 20. And then I didn't have enough money for the headphones I had. I had $10 left because he spent $10 on my dollars and I was like, fuck it, I'm gonna steal it. Who's gonna stop me? And in my mind, I came up with my whole plan. I'm a slip into my pocket. This place usually has the higher end security where they'll wait for you outside to justify you break the plane of stealing. You have to cross the barrier of the door.

32:50So I knew that. I knew that if there was people outside, they were waiting for us and I was gonna run. But we get in there and that was my plan before I even buy into the store. Was if there's someone outside waiting for us, I'm gonna take off running and they can only chase me to the end of the mall property. They can't chase me past that because I was very analytical. I went into their rules and regulations. So I knew what the boundaries were. And I told my friend that and he's like, oh, okay, sweet. This is gonna be my first time stealing. I was like, okay. I was like, I'm very good at this. Just don't be obvious. I was like, we'll split up and you go steal whatever you want and I'll go steal whatever I want. And I walked around, found some headphones. It was $19.99, $19.99. It's important for down the road. And my friend, he found like a game that he wanted to steal and he super obvious. Immediately read flag. I knew that they were onto us because he was like ducking in allies.

33:51He was looking around. He was making eye contact with the cashier. And I see the security doing his little routine of walking passes without trying to look obvious. And I was like, they're onto us bro. We're gonna have to run when we get out. And for whatever reason when we get to the door, I'm ready to run. I'm already like leaning towards, I'm getting in my running phase. And at this time, I was fast. I was fast kid. I was running like five minute miles. And as soon as I see the two securities, there's two massive white pillars on the entrance to Sears. That's where we were stealing from in the mall. And the two dudes come around the side and I looked at my friend and I was like, let's run. And he's like, he grabs me by the wrist. And he's like, how about we stay? And by that point, the two dudes are already grabbing us. And I was like, I like the run plan better myself. Yeah, they're not gonna chase us that far. And if they chase us, we're faster. We're gonna get away. Like it was too fat to carry guards. You know, they're gonna get tired before we do.

34:52We were young kids that had infinite amount of energy. But they grabbed us and I was like, and they're walking us back to their little security office. I was like, why didn't you run man? And he was like, honestly, I got scared. And he was like, I panic, I froze. I was like, whatever. Now we're stuck here. They call the cops, the cops show up. They call our parents. His mom is looking at me like I'm the criminal. I was like, she was like, glaring at me. I was like, he's the reason we got caught. It wasn't enough to me. If it was up to me, we'd be home. But then my mom shows up after his parents show up and his parents take him and he gets whatever charges. We got our separate ways after this. I don't talk to him after that. But when my mom shows up, police are there and I'm catching their charge because what I stole had a value of $20 and like 19 cents or like whatever taxes was. And for it to be an actual crime, you had to break the plane of $20. So if they would have charged me for the 1999 cent value,

35:53they could have I wouldn't have had to go to the things I had to do community service. I had to do juvenile court. But it was all because it was with taxes, it was over $20. And I just found that so hypocritical. But I get my talking to, I get home, I get spanked, very generic childhood trauma stuff. And then I had to go do this jury duty. I had no idea what a court system is at this age. I walk in, I'm wearing your oversized white T-shirt, Dicky pants, looking the way your typical gangster looks and it was a jury of white people. Every one of them was white. I was like, I'm guilty. I don't know. Whatever the max punishment is, I'm going to get it. And they go through the whole trial. They let me speak my piece and I was like, yeah, yeah, I stole it. I was there. I wasn't trying to avoid the question. I was like, well, I was like, and but I stole it because I used the money that I had to buy for it.

36:55You know, I bought my friend food and didn't care. There was no reason. I got max, max, max time, max community service, max amount of jury duty. And it was like just juvenile jury duty. I don't remember how many times. I want to say between five and 10. But every time I'd go in there, I'd just argue with them. And it was because it was people like me. People that looked exactly like me were the ones being tried. And the jury would be like, oh, yeah, he's guilty. I was like, yeah, but why are we giving them the max amount? Why are we recommending the max amount of time? You know, he's already having to spend time. His parents have to bring him here. Why are we saying that he's guilty before we get all the facts? And I don't really understand the whole court to sum at this time. It was just very generic kid brain. I relate to this person. We should let him go. Like there was no more logic. Like, yeah, there was the charges and all that. And it was like very petty stuff, you know, stole candy bar.

37:55They pushed someone and they got charged for assault, stuff like that. And I was like, it's not that serious. I punch people in their faces and I didn't catch a charge. And like, yeah, well, that's wrong. Blah blah blah. And I did my jury duty. And like the first two times, I was super argumentative. I was like, I'm not agreeing with this. I'm it's going to be a hung jury. But I say there's so long that eventually, I had to submit, you know, I had to give in to whatever the group wanted. And then after those two times, I'm like, all right, I'll just shut the fuck up and listen. I'm just going to go with the flow. I'm just going to drag the style I get to go home sooner if I don't argue with them. So I did that. And then I had a community service where I lived to wear the computer room, rec room, whatever you want to call it. And there was a volunteer lady. That was super chill. She would open the place up when she didn't have to. She stayed there longer for us, you know, really cared about. Like she wasn't paid to do it. She just volunteered. And unfortunately, she was too nice. I took advantage of the situation.

38:55I asked her, you know, I was like, I got community service. I explained the whole story. She's like, oh, no, that's totally reasonable. Give me your paper. I'll sign off on all your hours. I had like, I want to say it was like 50 hours of community service. And she just signed them off. She's like, make sure you put separate dates on it, though, that way they know you came on separate days. And don't turn it in until like a week later. Damn, it's a professional. Has it together? Oh, yeah. She gave me the whole structure, the whole layout. She's like, just wait till this day. And then you'll turn it in that way. They can see that you did this amount of hours every day. I was like, OK. And she's like, don't worry about it. You don't have to clean up in here. You just come in here and have fun. We'd go in there and play like Roonscape. I don't know if you're familiar with the game. No, I don't think I've played it. But I've heard of it. World Warcraft was similar, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Generic video game. Go in there and play with my friends for like, it was supposed to be open for half an hour and every time she'd leave it open, all parts of an hour, minimum an hour. And she was like, I just care about you guys, you know? You guys need those outlets to be creative.

39:57Kids would go in there and make crafts. Some kids would just go in there just to talk to her because you know, I was a parent that listened. And most of us in the situations don't have that. But I get that community service done with. And that was the last of my trouble making in middle school. But then we move on to high school. And I'm still this eagle-tisticle. I'll let you ask questions if you want. No, no, I mean, yeah. It sounds like when you got in the high school, like the legal problems really began, especially with your older brother. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it wasn't towards, so I went to two high schools. We lived in Section A. And earlier on, I was still a trouble maker, you know? Just seeking that attention, arguing with teachers, failing school on purpose. Because I just didn't want to. I didn't care to prove myself with grades. I just wanted to do bare minimum. I didn't want to do homework at home. I did all my homework in the next class.

40:59And I didn't want to spend energy and time on things I didn't care about. I knew for a fact I was never going to go to college, just because sitting in a classroom was so boring to me. But the biggest place where I'd get, where I'd like to have too much freedom is like math class, because I'm really good at math. And I could finish the work really quick, because that's what they'd ask me. And then I could just go and start flirting with girls, start messing with my friends, et cetera. And that would give me a trouble a lot. I'll get to what you're asking, but there's a couple of stories in here that I remember vividly. So I learned this fancy trick where the arrow of YouTube taught me. If you tie a fishing line, people can't see that. And I hone these skills in in middle school. I tie just 50 pound test of fishing line. I was a fisherman growing up, so there was fishing line laying around.

42:00So I did one strand. And I thought it would stab. I thought if someone ran into it, it'd catch it. And the line would snap. And I tested it with people walking on the street next to the Sanctuary Housing. And some people clipped it. They did your generic bump into it. And it was like, oh, duck under it, whatever. And it wasn't until I felt bad on this one. It was this spike or mind you, he's in the wrong. He's driving on the sidewalk. It wasn't my fault, 100%. He's driving on the sidewalk. And he's cucking. He's going as fast as he can. And he didn't see the zip line, obviously. And it catches him, closes the lines, and by the neck, falls backwards. And I'm hiding on the roof of our two-story section A housing. I just climb on the side of a porch and get up top. So that was my vantage point. That's where I did most of my misbehaving,

43:00which is because no one can find me up there. And there was so many ways to get off that if someone came from one way, you could get off the other side. But I'm sitting up there and I see this guy get closed line. And then I was like, oh, shit, that actually worked. And I got to school. And I was like, hey, guys, I got some fishing line. Where do you guys want to put it up to trip people? And being casual, we didn't think this through. We're like, well, we always hang out with friends. So we won't be suspicious of where we're in the same spot. So let's put it somewhere where we can see it from our hangout spot. And he's like, OK, I was like, well, the stairs would probably be a good choice. There's the railing there, which is tight. So the railing will clip someone's legs and they'll fall and they'll be funny. Unfortunately, it was the principal that was our next victim. He's walking with his coffee. He has his binder. He has his computer. He's all happy saying good morning to everyone. And he's looking around, talking to the kids. He does not see the zipline or the fishing line. And he clips it, face plans onto a step, like face first, coffee goes everywhere, his papers

44:05go everywhere. And we just walk away. We didn't want any part of it. We left. They did their investigation. They couldn't figure out who it was. The cameras weren't clear enough for them to see us in that spot. But I got away with it. So I was like, I'm going to keep doing this. This is fun and entertaining to me. I had built up resentment towards the principal because I get random backpack checks. I get it. I know what I knew what I looked like. Yeah, I'd random backpack check myself if I'm being completely honest. But it was just one of their policies. You know, oh, we're free to check everyone's backpack. But we only check Hispanic backfacts because I had a lot of white friends. And I was like, how many times has your backpack been checked, brother? He's like, none. I was like, you're carrying weed most of the time. How's your backpack never checked? He's like, he's like, because I'm white. He's called white privilege. I was like, I'm white too then. I was like, how do I get this privilege? We just went back and forth and we were close friends.

45:07So that's how we bantered. I was like, man, this is bullshit. I'm always being targeted just because of my skin color. So it just gave me more reason to hit back in a way. And my way, at this time, I started to learn that. I hurt you way more with my words than actions. And it wasn't, it was really bad on one of my math teachers. And this one actually feel bad about. This was like the 10th grade. And my math teacher, you know, she cared way too much about me. And I didn't care. You know, I'd go in there and just cost me a ham. I'd give me a hand out, you know, it takes half an hour to do this. I'd do it in the like five. I'd turn it in, just being super cocky. I'm done. I was like, what do you want me to do now? And she's like, just go sit in your desk and be quiet. Go draw or something. I was like, I'm bored. What else can I do? And she's like, just go do your desk, please.

46:07I got paperwork to grade and stuff. And I'd go back to my desk and immediately start flirting with girls and distracting people. And she's like, can you go outside? I was like, I can if you want me to. She's like, go outside. I was like, all right. She got there and talked to me. I was like, all right, I'll show for the rest of the rest of today. And this was a common occurrence. You know, I do my paperwork. I start throwing stuff at people. Start getting my pencil stuck on the ceiling. Just anything to keep my mind busy. And she just put up for it with it too much. And eventually, like, I can't keep doing this with you. I'm sending you to the principal's office. And you're just going to keep getting in trouble. I was like, I don't care. I live in the principal's office. I know him by a column by his first name. She sent me to a principal's office the first time. And I'm sitting there a little nervous. And like the attendance ladies, there's two of them at the front desk and they're talking to me. Like, what are you doing here? I don't know. I was talking back like I always do.

47:09And they're like, why do you think you do that? I was like, I don't know. I don't care either. I was like, it's entertaining. You know me. I get bored. And they're like, oh, you just don't get enough attention at home. And I took offense to it. I was like, well, this is why you're fat and ugly. And like just immediately counter insult. Just because if you're going to hurt me, I'm going to hurt you right back. And they both looked at me sideways. They're like, the mouth on this is like, what's wrong with him? And the principal calls me and he's like, oh, yeah. It's you again. You know, you got to stop speaking out in class. You get the tension. And then from there, we're going to have to suspend you. Love, love, love. And then eventually you're probably going to get expelled if you keep book this attitude. And I was like, oh, you're just being racist. In my mind, if I made it a race thing, they'd leave me alone. I didn't work. But I tried. I was like, you're just doing this because I'm Mexican. And he's like, no, I'm doing this because you're doing this. And this is the outcome. You know, you knowingly disrupt the class.

48:11And this is the punishment. I was like, nah, this is just because I'm Mexican. And you hate Mexicans. He's like, go back to your next period. They just helped me there for that period. And I kept doing it. I didn't stop. You know, it was too entertaining for me. And it gave me the attention I was seeking. It wasn't until one day. I was having a bad day. I'm leaving Hawaii. And the teacher wants to be her level head itself and wants to talk to me. And I was like, can you send me to the office today? I really don't want to argue with you. And she's like, what's the matter? Let's go outside and talk about it. I was like, and at this point, she's super pregnant. She's like eight months pregnant. And she just keeps trying to talk me down. I was like, please, just send me to the office. I am going to say something really stupid and you're going to regret it. Not me. You are going to regret it. And she's like, I promise you, there's nothing you can say that can hurt me blah, blah, blah. And I look her in her eyes and I tell her, send me to the principal's office before your fucking baby dies. And that was just like the me the thing I could think of

49:13at the time. And she breaks down, starts crying. I was like, fuck, I'm in trouble already. I'm just going to start walking to the principal's office. I walked myself in there knowing that that was Dalcom. So I'm sitting there. I get to the office. They're like, what are you doing here? I was like, I'm going to be in trouble soon. Just wait. And the two attendants lady know me at this point. And it takes a while for security to locate me, even though I was just sitting there waiting for them. Principal talks to the teacher and he explains to me. He's like, you really hurt her. She was crying for a really long time. And I just didn't care. I gave you the warning. I told you exactly what I was going to do. And you just ignored me. So you deserved it. And it wasn't until later, I didn't get in trouble for this. That was the crazy part. I didn't get to spend it. I didn't get expelled. I got one day of detention. And detention was entertaining for me because I'd get to hang out with my friends that were all there with me. But there was really a major consequence of that. It was a verbal talk into it. And at this point, I had been talking to you

50:14too many times to, for me to care, you know? I got into trouble. And I was already on the defensive. So I just tuned it out. But that time, they would call home a lot of the times. And I would just run home and answer the phone and just pretend like I was my mom or dad. And that's how I got away with a lot of the things I got away with was they'd be talking to me. And I'd just talk in Spanish. And they wouldn't know the difference. I could make my voice deeper in Spanish. They don't know that my dad, who is always working, and they'd send letters. And I just forged the letters because who's going to know? I was my dad signature. And my brother was my mom signature because he could get it more accurate. So like anytime they'd send disciplinary stuff, they're like, oh, you have to get assigned by your parents. Like, OK. I was so egotistical. One time they gave me a letter, I turned it in the same day. Like, I hadn't even gone home yet to get it signed. I signed it and turned it back in. They're like, how'd you get to sign? I was like, oh, my mom stopped by to sign that. I called her and they're like, OK, thank you.

51:15I like straight to your face. But it just, in my mind, it just made it so easy to lie to people and just to lie people, lie to people to get what I wanted, just to be left alone. And it was at this time that my brother started getting into selling drugs, so getting stuff like that. And for me, it was a positive. We finally had money. I was able to, at this time, my parents were looking from moving on from Section A since they had that extra income of drug money. And they're looking at houses. We're going to our houses. And in my mind, it didn't seem real. I was like, there's no way we can afford this house. We've been to our whole lives. We live in Section A. I knew members, so I asked them about the finances. So I understood that it wasn't feasible. And at the time, rent was cheap in California. It was like 1,200 books, 1,300 books. And more expensive houses, bigger houses were 2,000 dollars,

52:17which is crazy to think about. And I'm talking like Escondito, California, if you like San Diego County for generic speaking. But we look at a couple houses. And there were around 150K. And that was very generic. It's a fixer upper. It has a couple problems. And then we look at this really nice house. It's like 210K. It was way more than they could afford. But they had the drug money. And they wanted the nicest things. This house had a pool. It had your picket fence. They had garden space. They had everything we never had as any of us ever had. My parents, us as kids. And they jump. They get the new home owner feeling. They jump at it. They put them bit in. They over bit on it. They get the house. And for a while, everything's working out since they have that income from my brother.

53:18He's financially paying for pretty much everything at this point. New truck. Is that how it works? Yeah, yeah. And it's works until it doesn't. So we move into this house. I had to switch schools because it's a new district. And I switched schools. And for whatever reason, no longer causing chaos as much. I'm more leveled out. I got all that out of the way. When we switched, I was more into chasing girls. And just trying to get laid essentially. But when we move there, it's way nicer. You got your super friendly neighbors that wave at you. And I was like, why did these people so nice around you? I just didn't understand that people were friendlier. If you move to a nicer place. But my brother kept selling. And all good things come to end eventually.

54:20He gets caught. First time he gets caught, it's a lot. It's pounds of crystal, pounds of marijuana. And he's smart, dude. And he put money aside for attorneys and all that. He goes to jail. I want to say it was like two months. It wasn't a very long time. He gets out immediately. And California's a three strike rule where you could get in trouble three times. And then on the third time, you're pretty much doing life. So he's like, oh, I got another chance. I'm going to keep selling. And then if I get caught again, that's my second strike. And then after that, I'll stop. And they're onto him. You know, they're tapping his phones. And your phone's getting too hot. Obviously, someone's listening to it. There's random cars sitting outside our house. Unmarked police cars, the evolve cars. It says police on the back of it, the police interceptors. Like, can you at least be a little more discreet? We know you're here. I'd go up to them and knock. And just being super nosy. And they wouldn't roll down their windows. They just drive off.

55:21But I was just doing to piss them off at that point. And eventually, they get enough evidence to get a search warrant. They do what is known as a knocking and announce. They're going to get consent from the homeowner. Yeah. Which is super valuable. You guys find a technical look around here. So this is where it gets super shady. Just from a police standpoint, you know, I did a, just for context, four years in Ranger Regiment. And four years as a police officer. But looking back now, they had a full SWAT team. Unmarked. No, there was no police in uniform. Everyone was just in civilian coasts with clothes with their vets on and badges. And I was with my brother, my cousin. We were in my room. He was a converted garage. And it had a sliding door that backed up to the pool.

56:24And I see just random people showing up to our back door, which wasn't an uncommon occurrence because my brother sold drugs from there. So random people showing up was normal. But these people had guns. And that wasn't normal. But I thought we were getting like robbed or something. But then I see the badges. And they're knocking on the door, you know, let us in, police. So my brother opens the door. They do police call outs. You know, they grab all of us. They take us to our front lawn. And at the same time, when I'm walking past, I look to my left. And the other officers are probably walking in and talking to my parents. And I just overhear them say, you know, well, you have to sign this or else you could get deported. And that's all I heard. And so we get thrown on our front porch, our front grass, and they're keeping us face down in the dirt. And mind you, I'm just a kid. I am not that I was still in high school. Sorry, my head sucks.

57:24It's all right. But they put us face first in the grass. And we're there for a really long time, half an hour to an hour. Them just like keeping us there. I get up and just this Chris Cross applesauce. And one guy comes back outside. He's like, oh, no, you got to get back on the ground. I was like, why? He's like, oh, it's just, it's a control thing. I was like, OK, so I get back on the ground. And I'm sitting there. The whole time, I'm just mad. I was like, there's no reason they should be in our house right now. And then they bring our money to dad out. And I'm just asking them questions in Spanish. I was like, why'd you let them in? They go, they try and support us. They said, I didn't give them consent to search the house. They were going to arrest me and take me back to Mexico. I was like, well, knowing what I know now, that's illegal. You can't do that. But at the time, we didn't know better. We just knew what we were told. And they'd tear up our house, absolutely destroy it, putting holes in walls, undoing ceiling tiles,

58:27and digging random holes. And the one that hurts me personally the most is they dug up one of my dad's trees that was from Mexico. He brought over the seed. It was his childhood tree. This is a fruit he grew up on. And they dug it out. And he tried to replant it. And then it ended up dying. How do you put a value on something like that? You don't. There was way too much emotional value to that. But they tore up the house, which whatever. We can fake holes in walls. We can put the stuff. We can put the clothes back into all the drawers and stuff. They searched everything. And my brother was smart. He didn't keep drugs inside the house. He was smarter than that. He kept it outside. But they didn't find the actual stash. They found like an ape ball of crystal meth. And they're like, oh, he was all probation at the time. They're like, oh, you're lucky. We're just going to catch you a verbal warning. We're not going to charge you with it. And looking back now is because they

59:28didn't have enough legal standing for what they did. But I didn't know that at the time. And I was just so angry as a kid. I started looking into laws and stuff. I started reading case law at this young age. It's just from that incident. I was like, there's no way this should happen to people. We moved here. I am an American. I was born in America. I should not be treated like this. It's just inhumane in my mind. So I started looking into it. And I called the local police department. I was like, hey, on this day, I just want to know who rated our house. And they're like, what are you talking about? There was no police calls in that area. Try the sheriff's office. OK, so I call over to the sheriff's office. Yeah, we don't have any incidents at your address, period. And they're like, try state police. OK, so I tried state police. And the same thing. They're like, oh, yeah, no. We haven't responded to any calls there. We haven't done any work.

1:00:29There's like, well, then who the fuck rated us? No one apparently. I had never figured it out. I went back, again, even after being a cop trying to get just because I remember the date, or I asked my parents for the date, or whatever. And it didn't exist. They didn't give them many paperwork. They didn't give them copies of anything. They just took the drugs and left. And they left them with a verbal warning, cutting him a break. But from there on, it's just like cops are meat for no reason. At this point, I've been terry stopped. And I have been frisk for no reason. I've out ran a couple cops just because I wasn't doing anything illegal. I just thought it was entertaining when they told me, hey, stop. And I ran. Like, what are you going to do? Chase me and you be catch me. You're going to search me and I might have nothing on me. I don't care. I was looking into laws at this point. So I was just so mad where I wanted to catch them and allow you. I wanted to hurt them the same way they hurt me.

1:01:32But I chill out. I get through school. And it wasn't until my high school year that I actually started trying. And I was bad. I was failing so many classes. I was way too much into girls. Like, you know, I was too busy flirting with girls to pay attention. Or I just wouldn't do the homework. I wouldn't do the assignments. Or if I did them, I was purposely missing stuff. I remember taking a math test and I was like, I'm going to get 0% on it. I told the teacher that. And she was like, no, you're not. She's like, that's impossible. You can guess on every one of them. And you'll still get like 25%. I was like, watch. And she gives me the test. And I go out on my way to purposely choose every wrong answer. And on a white piece of paper, I'm putting the correct answers just because I don't know. I thought it was funny. And I handed in. And I leave. The next day, she holds me after class.

1:02:33She's like, why'd you get 0%? I was like, I told you I would. I was like, I'm a man in my word. I do what I was going to say. And she's like, you can get them all right, can't you? And I reached out my backpack. I gave her the piece of paper. I was like, yeah, here they are. And she's like, why? Why'd you do that? I was like, I don't know. I thought it was funny. And she's like, I'm going to give you 100% on it. But don't do that again. After that, I felt the respect. It was mutual. At that point, it was like, there's something for me shouldn't have to. So I didn't feel the need to lash out as much. It was there where I learned that there's actually some people that actually have your best interest at heart. Not everyone's out to get me. As I listen to these stories, I can see that you were the perfect candidate for either the Marine Corps or the Ranger Regiment. It was going to be one of the two. Yeah. And it was at this time where all the ROTC nerds are talking.

1:03:33And they're like, oh, I'm going to do these cool things overseas. I'm going to go join the infantry, what I know now. But in my mind, I was very illiterate. I didn't pay attention to school. I heard infirmary. And I thought infirmary was infantry. I didn't know the difference. I didn't care, too. I didn't ask these guys about what they were signing up for. I had friends that were in ROTC. And they just talked about the military. It's this life saver. So once I got graduation day, I grind. I make up like 10 classes on my last years. I had zero period. And I had to stay after school. I did online classes at home just so I could barely graduate. I graduated with a solid two point something. It was not good. But then I started doing landscaping for like a month with my dad. And I hate it. I don't want to do it. I don't want to be in the sun. This is hard work. I don't like this hard labor stuff. So in my mind, the only thing I could think of was,

1:04:36well, everyone talks about the military. It's this super cool thing. So that's when I started training. I was running marathons every other day. I was running like 13 miles just casually. Because in my mind, if I'm going to be in the military, I have to be the best. And I would just run until I was exhausted. And then I'd have to get back. And someone, one of my like Jim's teachers told me this, if you never walk, it never gets hard. So even if you're just slowly jogging, I was like, well, then I'm just never going to walk. I'm just going to pretend like I'm just moving my arms a lot. I'm moving at the pace of a walk. But in my mind, I'm jogging. And I just kept that mentality at any time I ran. And I always shoot for a faster score. I do a landmark. And I'd be like, all right, let's see how long it takes me. I left the house at this time. Let's see how fast I could be back. And that's how I would challenge myself. And I was like, well, this is getting easy. I need to go further.

1:05:37It started with one or two miles. I'd run out a mile, come back a mile. And I'd look it up on Google Maps just to see the distance. So I knew you had to run two miles for the BTSS. So I'm going to be very fast at the two miles. But I'm still going to run more that way. If I have to, I'll be ready for it. Just trying to be over-prepared because I asked some former military uncle. He's like, oh, yeah, just be a good runner. If you can run, you'll be OK. So it wasn't until two or three months after high school where it was like, I have this path of I can go start a business with my father. And I can run it. I know I can. I am smart enough to do that. But that's not what I want to do. I want to get out of this small town. This is not where I want to be. And it was a lot to do with the way my parents raised me. Ever since a kid, they're telling me, you hit 18. You've got to get out of the house. We can't feed you, et cetera. I was like, OK, I'll leave. I'll find my way out.

1:06:38And that's the only path I saw. So I go to the Marine Station. And unfortunately, on this day, I had a very hot day after. I was in a hurry. And I go into Marine Station. And these guys are very egoistic. They're like, are you even good enough to be a Marine? I was like, yeah, what do you need me to do? Do some do X amount of pushups. It's like, OK, I can do that. I've been practicing for this. I could do 100 pushups in whatever a lot of time it was, a two minutes or whatever. And I did them. And I go, well, I bet you can't do pullups. I do like 20 pullups. And I'm staring them down the whole time. I was like, this is light work. They're like, oh, yeah, you got what it takes to be a Marine. Just get on this computer and take this ass map or take this test. And I didn't know. I didn't know that test was going to determine what jobs I had available. I had a date. I had to be somewhere. So I chose C for every one of them. And they're like, OK, you felt that miserably. It was just like a mock test where they got the answers right away.

1:07:39And they're like, you need to come back. You need to study and come back when you're ready or prepared. We recommend going to library, checking out an ass-wab book. It's like, whatever. I'm going on my date. So I go meet up with my girlfriend at the time and whatever. Didn't think I'd do any of it. The next day I go back, I was like, well, I'll redo the ass-wab. And I go in there and I was like, what job am I going to get? And they're like, well, it's not up to you. We go based off the needs of the Marine, or the needs of the Navy. And I was like, what's that mean? Well, you can recommend to be X, Y, and Z, but at the end of the day, it's the Marine that's going to determine where you end up. I was like, I don't want that. I want to do what I sign up for. So I walk out. And I walk right next to the Army recruiting. And on this day, I didn't have any to wear to be. So I took my time. I talked to the recruiter. And they're talking way too much. I stopped listening after so many words. And I do the ass-wab. And he comes back with a binder, like literally this big.

1:08:40I scored like a 111 on the GT. And he's like, you have so many jobs available for you. Like, what are you trying to do? And I was like, I don't know, man. I just want to have a future for after the military. And the military sets you up for that. And he's like, oh, well, if you want the 88-micro, this nuclear something, I don't even remember what the title was. I just remember hearing nuclear. I was like, what do you do? He's like, well, the truck driver, you just drive trucks, but it's kind of dangerous. You know, you could get shot at and stuff. I was like, I don't want that. I want to shot that. And he's like, well, you scored hide in the, I was like, what about a firmerie? And at the time, I had more of an accident. And he automatically assumed I said infantry. I thought I was going to be a medic. And he's talking about, he's like, oh, yeah, infantry. We have this thing called an option 40. And he's like, I was like, what's that? He's like, oh, you get to do airborne. And he keeps talking out here airborne. I was like, ooh, jumping out of plain sounds. That's awesome. That's all I needed to hear.

1:09:41I didn't hear anything else he said. He explained what a Ranger was. I was like, and at the end of it, once I was done daydreaming, I asked someone, I was like, were you a Ranger? He's like, oh, no, me, I could never. I was like, I could do it. I'll take that one. So I get an option 40, Ranger assessment selection. But it changed from rip from your generation. But I get that. And I didn't know what I was signing up for. It wasn't until you do your PT test and you get to talk to other people that are in the recruitment process. And they're asking me, I was like, what's your sign up for? I was like, infirmary. They're like, you're a medic? I was like, I think so. I was like, I got an option 40. What's that mean? And they explained it. They explained it a little better. I still didn't really understand. I just knew that I wanted to jump out of airplanes because it sounded cool. But I just didn't really carry. I was like, they're like, oh, you signed up for infantry, bro. I was like, what's that? What's the difference between that and the medic? They're like, you get to deploy. You get to go to all these cool places. I was like, sick.

1:10:41I was like, that sounds even better than what I signed up for. So this is whole time, I'm asking PT test just because I'm holding myself to the highest standard. They're like, oh, you only need to get whatever 80% and I was like, well, why would I do that when I could get 100%. Not knowing some people are just not capable of reaching that standard and just ego-tistical. So every time I go there, I'm the first one to run back after the two miles. I'm staring the recruiter in this space, be like, yeah, this is light work. I could do this all day and they do their little hazing sessions. I was like, this is cute. Is this what the military is like? This is gonna be easy. The whole time, they're like, you're not gonna make it. You're not gonna make it past basic. I was like, watch me. And they're supposed to ship out. Haven't told anyone. No one knows about this. No one knows I signed up for the military. No one knows I've been going to the PT test. I haven't told anyone because it was around this time that I got my heart broken by my, at the time, girlfriend.

1:11:44I was like, you know what, I hate this place. I never want to come back here ever again. So it just all lined up to where on the day I shipped out to MEPs, I asked my mom and dad, I was like, can you just give me a ride to recruiting station? And they're like, why? They're like, you wanna join the military? I was like, I'll tell you when we get there. So we get there and they pull up to very front under no parking zone. I was like, I had some bags with me. I was like, oh, I'm gonna do something. I'll tell you when I get there. I had my bags packed and everything. I was ready to go. And once I got out the car, I looked at my mom and my dad and I was like, I'm leaving for the military today. And they just start breaking down crying. They're like, why are you leaving us? We need you here. We need the support. Cause like I was doing like landscaping, you know, I was helping with my brothers and sisters and stuff. I was like, you guys told me, I had to get out 18. I'm just doing exactly what you guys told me. I leave today. I leave today and I'm not coming back until I get leave. And I did. I got on the maps and I had another girlfriend.

1:12:50This one broke my heart. It was a military girlfriend. She was also enlisting at the same time. And it was just that young dumb love where like, like for two months we were talking and we'd go on dates and stuff. And we're like, oh, we'll send each other's letters. You know, we'll keep in touch. We'll make this work, et cetera. So we get to basic training and I don't know. If you have any questions, I'll let you shoot. No, I mean, you write in the your memoir that is unpublished thus far. I mean, you write about some very like common typical experiences that I think like we all had when we joined the military. You talk about the bus ride from the airport to Fort Benning and it's definitely quiet. Everyone pretends and they're not afraid of what's about to happen. And 30th AG, the holding facility before you go to basic. Why don't you finish the story about your army girlfriend and then we'll jump forward to it, RAS.

1:13:52Yeah, so this one heard me. So I don't know how you, if you know how letters work, they take a really long time to get to the person. And if you break up with someone, you're still sending a couple more letters before they've broken up with you. So we send like two or three letters back and forth that were like positive and in basic training, she found someone else and I get the dear John letter. And at this one, I had sent like a letter like once a week. So there was like six or seven, there was a couple letters that were like still like, I love you, you know, we're gonna work it out. We're gonna figure this out. And once I get that letter, you know, I go full rage mode, all caps. I was like, I hate you, you're a terrible person. You're the reason. It just fueled the rage I already had inside of me. It was just more motivation for me. And it was just like, well, I had to prove her wrong too now. Like it just gave me more fuel. But basic is where I learned what option 40 was, you know, at the time, someone who finally explained it to me,

1:14:54I finally took the time to actually listen. And it was like, oh, you get to go do airborne. And most people felt that I was like, that couldn't be me. I've never felt anything in my life. Just very egotistical. And I explain to me, you do airborne. You go to a range assessment selection. And then you get to the range of regiment. I was like, when do I become a ranger? They're like, well, once you pass the assessment selection, I was like, cool. I was like, how long is that? They told me that time I was sweet. So what, it's just a time thing. I just stay here and wait. Cool. And I do. I pass, I think I was like honor grad in basic training. I get a piece of paper for it. It's not that impressive. But I get that in like the PT award. I had like a 320 something. I maxed just about every PT test, except one, where they haze this right before the PT test. And I still got like, I still passed.

1:15:56But it was like, in my mind, I failed because I didn't max it. Even though we were like destroyed the day before, and like right before we took the test. And I was just so ego-tistical. You know how like you get the paste guy, the instructor who's pacing you on the run? I'd run next to him. And I didn't know you could pass them. I didn't know you could pass the paceman until like a couple of months in. Because I would just run right behind him. Because I didn't want to get into trouble by passing them. And one day, once I finally get comfortable in the environment, I'm talking to him. Well, he's dying. He's like trying his hardest to run as fast as he can. And I was like, do you mind if I go ahead? Go ahead. And he just looks at me. He's like, you can run faster. I was like, yeah, I've been running at your pace this whole time. And he's like, yeah, go ahead. So I just take off in like a sprint. And that's when like I actually started like trying harder than like, because I was told just be a gray man. Like, you know, just just blend into the back. And I was like, why would I do that? If I want to be the best, I got to be better than the guy in front of me.

1:16:57And it was always a competition between me and my good friend. Also ended up being a morgue. Short little guy did track and feel this whole life. And he was just fast. He was like four foot nothing and quake for no reason. I was like, you should not be able to run this quick. Your legs are not as long as mine. But it was always between him and I on who was running faster. But I just kept that mentality of, you know, this sucks. But there's someone hurting more, you know. Just looking back and seeing everyone else struggle fueled me as messed up as that sounds. But just seeing someone suffer more than me, it was like, oh, they're going to quit before me. I'm not quitting today. I'll wait for them to quit. And sometimes they'd quit. And a lot of times they wouldn't. And it's like, well, if they're not quitting, I'm not quitting either. I'll quit till that person quits. And if that person quits, I'll be like, I'll quit till that person quits, you know, someone in my mind who was weaker than me. But that got me through Airborne School. Airborne school was honestly not that hard. The thing I hated most was being in a harness and having to pee so bad that like,

1:17:59you're just holding it for so long. And then you get in trouble for when you land it immediately just pee in. It's like, I had to pee for like eight hours. What do you want for me? But that's like the most memorable thing. And just like the constant running and cadence is like, this is not hard, you know. I've been preparing for this run scenario this whole time. But what I saw is fear got people the most. You know, people were quitting before they even started. And it's like, why? It's not even hard yet. You must have seen that at Wrathb also, right? That, you know, even before you start the course, there are people just like standing in formation and they, VW, you know, but there's just fear of the unknown really. Yeah. And I mean, you were there. You held your bags over your head and someone came out there and screamed at you and they said they'd be right back and they lied to you. They were not right back. You stand there for hours, just waiting for them to come back and just like, I don't care.

1:19:04Like they'd say, like, keep it off your head. I'm putting it on my head. I don't care. You're not, you're not checking in on me. I'm going to do whatever I can to make this as easy as possible. I just remember they would, they would put us in the front leaning rest on that basketball court when it was like blazing hot in the summer. So your hands are getting all burned and you're like doing this, pushing out. Oh, and then the instructor will come and they'll see you squirm and like, okay, you get in the iron chair. And did this day, like when I go to like a CrossFit gym or something and they have you do the iron chair. It's like a fucking exercise. I'm like, this is bullshit. Torture. This is what this is. This was a corrective measure in the military. What the hell is this? Yeah. Well, got me through it was like just focusing on something else that hurt. Like when you're like in that front leaning rest, like for us, it was on the rocks and like the rocks start hurting. So I just like shifted my hands like back and forth just to like hurt someone else. And I was like, all right, this doesn't hurt as much anymore. Let me focus on something else that's hurting.

1:20:05But for that mentality is really what I would focus on when I was struggling, you know, it's like, what else is hurting? What's hurting less? It just helped me get my mind off the one thing that was party. It was in Airboard School that I learned that I could just fake it. I could just fake be tired. So I'd be there just shaking and then they'd come relieve me. They'd make me do another exercise. I was like, well, I'm just going to do that until I get bored of it. And then I'm going to fake that too. So I just did that until like once I would never be fully exhausted. Because you know, then they push you past that. So like I was like, I'm always going to have something in reserves. They're never going to know the whole story. But but that that helped me a lot in the for whatever reason I was never caught. And I guess I was just that convincing on my shaking like, I can't do it anymore. But I was never caught on it. So I just kept doing it. But like, Rasp was in that heart for me because of that. Because I was cheating. I was not going 100% every time because I didn't see the purpose behind it. Because if I went I wouldn't 100% like the first week.

1:21:06And I was like, why am I doing this to myself? They're not they're not watching me. You know, there's other people in the front leading resposition that are just laying on the ground. I was like, I'ma join them. They seem way more comfortable than what we're doing. But yeah, that got to Rasp very. I personally didn't think it was hard. And it was just because I was cutting corners everywhere. I saw corners, you know, that obviously there's some things where you just have to do on obstacle courses, PT test. At the time, I was running like a 30 minute 5 miles. So I was very quick on my feet. And you know, you get to the end of it. And you get to put in your picks on where you want to go. I put first bet, second bet, third bet in that organ. I wanted to go to the beach. I did not want to go to Washington State where I rained all the time. That's all I ever heard was like, oh, it rains all the time there. You know, suicide rate is super high. I was like, I don't want that. That sounds like a terrible time. And then third bet, you know, it's really close to the fact flagpole.

1:22:08They're very by the book, you know, and there's like, I don't want that either. And you know, first bet usually, they're the chill ones. Everyone's talking good about it. I was like, I want to be first bet. But unfortunately, every mortar went to second bet. Every all the guys I knew, we all ended up going to second bet. And it was pretty cool because it was a group of like eight of us. It was a big group of mortars that went together. And I don't know if you got questions to them. Yeah, I mean, I'm just going to regiment. So yeah, tell us about what it was like showing up at regiment. And especially like being a new guy in mortar section, I think is a particularly horrifying as I recall. It was not pretty. I thought I made it at this point. You know, I thought people were going to show the fuck out for once. And no, I get there. I get there and you know, I have this big black double bag that has all my personal belongings. You know, I picked up a lot of things along the way because I didn't have money before. And now I did. So I had this massive like suitcase style bag.

1:23:10And I had two other double bags. And we got dropped off at the front headquarters. The main building reception essentially. And we're just standing there in per-age rest waiting for whoever. I don't know who. And I vividly remember just standing there. Like, he's like, all these guys look so angry. Who pissed these guys off? Everyone I looked at would just mean mug me. And naturally, I'm a happy person. So I try to smile at them. And they're like, they'd just be like, what the fuck are you looking at? I was like, oh shit, I'm not allowed to smile here. So I just stop smiling. And it's like, all right, they don't want me to smile. And it was at that time someone said tab check. And I had no idea what a tab check was. So I started looking around. And I was like, I don't see a tab anywhere. And the guys started doing push-ups. I was like, OK. So I started doing push-ups, normal level push-ups. And he's like, have you been arranged to school? I was like, I don't think so. No. He's like, elevate your fucking feet. I was like, OK. So I put them on my bag. And he's like, have you been a man?

1:24:11That's not high enough. I was like, what do you want me to do? There's nothing else around. So there's a decorative mortar tube out front. So I put my feet on that. And he starts screaming at me again. He's like, that's not high enough. Put them higher. So I was like, well, there's nothing else to put my feet on. So I'm just going to put them against the wall and work my way up. And at this point, I'm pretty much doing like straight vertical push-ups. And I kept going until everyone else stopped. And he's like, how many did you do? I was like, I don't know. I wasn't counting. He's like, just supposed to do 25. And one for the airborne ranger in the sky. I was like, OK. I was like, do you want me to start over? And he's like, no, just recover. Don't look at me. I was like, OK. So I go back to parade rest. And I was like, that guy was mean. I don't like that guy. Turns out it was one of the mortar team leaders. But I didn't know that at the time. And one of the mortar guys, you get your typical hazing ritual. Get screened that. Grab your bags. Get to the barracks.

1:25:13Unpack your shit. And then meet back up at Regiment and get your hazing ritual out of the way. For whatever reason, they decided against it. I don't know why. They're just like, oh, we're busy today. We're not going to do it today. We'll do it tomorrow. I was like, OK, what do you want me to do? They're like, oh, just check in tomorrow. I was like, sweet. I get a day off. But the next day wasn't so nice. They were mean to me, believe it or not. I can also see you being a bit of a leadership challenge also, bringing some of your criminal mastermind skills to a Ranger battalion. Yeah. I always like the challenge of like, egoing people. I am going to outperform you. I don't care how big or how strong you think you are. I'm going to try to outrun you. I am going to outpace you. And I've definitely remember going on a gas mass run. And I am trying my fucking hardest. Like, I cannot breathe with this gas mask on. And one of my team leaders that I know is slower than me.

1:26:15I know for a fact I am faster than him, just based off PT test. I am faster than by a lot. I was running like 11 minute two miles. And he's not struggling. And I'm so confused for the longest time. We would run around the airfield, which was five miles. And he did it like it was nothing. And I was dying. I was right behind him. But I was hurting. I was gasping for air. And I was struggling. And I just couldn't understand how he did it. Well, come to find out. Here's later, when he got out the military, he hollowed out his canister. So he could breathe normally. And meanwhile, breathing through a filter. And I was like, no wonder you were so much faster than me. I'm over here fighting for my life. And you're just casually jogging. But I handed that down to the next guy. And so he can use it on the next generation. But yeah, I was always just egoing everyone. It was just like, you can try to hurt me. But there's nothing. I know it's going to end at some point. And you're going to get bored before I do.

1:27:17And my leadership learned real quick that it didn't work for me. They put me with more of father figures instead of people that were going to train you, corrective action you. Because I was very smart. You told me how to do something. I'd memorize it. I'd go back to my barracks room and study it. That way, I don't make the same mistake twice. And I very rarely got in trouble because of that. I studied Max Dissences, Ranges, all that. Because you get quizzed on it. Airborne Ranger in the sky was something that kind of I didn't understand. They made me pick one. And then they're like, remember these facts about it. And obviously I'm autistic. So I remembered exactly what they told me. That I remember the name, remember what beer he likes. And remember his family. I was like, OK, that's easy. I can remember that. I really remembered it just by you telling me it. And that was it. And I was questioned a couple of times. And then after that, it just fell off. And I was blessed in the sense where I never lost anyone

1:28:19close, super close to me. Yeah, I lost a couple of people on you. But I never got to experience luckily that part of it, where you lost your best friend or whatever. And I just didn't understand why that tradition fell off. And like from in my generation, even I, when I became a teen leader, we didn't really enforce it. You know, you had to have an airborne engine of the sky. You didn't actually push up for him, but that was pretty much it. It might have been because the war was kind of bleeding off. And thankfully, I mean, it's a good thing. We weren't losing as many people. Yeah, I honestly don't know. But I think that's one thing where like you forget the history part of it. It just repeats itself. Yeah, I mean, I agree. When I first got to battalion, my airborne Ranger in the sky was Roy Brown, who was a Ranger that died in Panama in 89. Yeah, I had a, I forget the rank, but he

1:29:20was a mortar in first battalion, Lance. But I didn't know much about him. What are my squad leaders? Was the first battalion guy that knew him personally. And I try to pride just because you can only find so much information online. And I'd go out drinking with my squad leader. And I go out to his house, work on cars, do man stuff, get drunk and work on cars. But he'd never talk about it. I asked him, you know, was like, can you tell me more? Like, I'm actually curious. I want to know what kind of person he was. He's like, no, man, it hurts so much to talk about. He's like, I just avoid it to be honest. I was like, all right, I won't ask you again. And it was like, well, why aren't we talking about it? If it hurts you that much, obviously you need help. But that was the mentality. And it's crazy to me because I didn't start drinking until after Ranger School. If you want to, I'll cover Ranger School. I mean, didn't you go, you got the point to Afghanistan first, didn't you? Correct.

1:30:20Tell us about what year did you get the point to Afghanistan? I want to say, it was very early on 2014, I believe. Sorry, I wrote them on my flag, so I wouldn't forget. These is the flag. Afghanistan in 2015. 2015, cool. OK, so where in Afghanistan did you get the point and what was sort of the mission at that time? Yeah, it was a gentleman's deployment. I don't know if you know where Scorpion is. But it was a training mission more than anything. Like, we were just training the partner forces. We spun up for QRF a couple of times, but we didn't actually get to do anything. This is when you guys were working with the KKA. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Just for time wise, you know, you fly into Erbil and from there, you get a briefing, you know? No, you flew into Kabul or Bagram.

1:31:23Kabul. Sorry, I'll blend in together. I know they do. But we flew there and then you know, you're there for a couple of days. And that was the first time we got mortared, you know? And I got to CR2D2 on steroids in action. I forget what the actual name is. The CRAM. I think it's what it's called. Oh, yeah, yeah. But we're there. And all these sirens are going off. And they briefed us already. You got to go to one of the shelters. Have you heard these sirens? And me being the noise, the noise you kid I was, you know, I was like, I don't want to go to a shelter. I want to see the round explode. So I stayed outside the bunker waiting for this round to explode. And all I hear is the CRAM, R2D2, is what it, because he looks like R2D2. I just see the tracer around, you know, the, the air and it shoots around out of the sky. And I was like, that was cool. What was it? And I asked my PL. He explained it to me. He's like, yeah, there's like a bunch of rounds in between those tracers. So it's just chewing a wall lead at the mortarounds. I was like, that's cool. We can't die here then.

1:32:24If we have that thing protecting us, like I truly believe like there was no way in the world where there was no world where we actually lost, because we trained so hard. But we get our briefing to go to wherever. And this is where I start seeing some of like the shaders side of stuff. We're a convoy. We're attached to just a platoon of infantrymen, you know? And I was, as a mortar, you know, you're always with the weapons squad. And we're in the Humvee. And we're test firing the Pity cows before we leave the base. And I remember seeing the antenna getting shot off. I was there. I saw the sparks hit the antenna. And they shot it. It was just dangling. And I guess no one else saw it or no one else wanted to admit it. I don't know, I truly don't. But we do our convoy and we take contact. We take contact, I truly don't know.

1:33:25Someone said we got shot at, I don't believe it. But one of our windows, and not the vehicle I was in, was one of the other vehicles took around to a window. And that antenna was part of their evidence they used to get their CIPs. And I was talking to my team leader and he was like, we can put in for it. But personally, I'm not going to, you know, I don't agree with that. I want to earn it, you know, if I get a CIP, I want it to be something that I did, you know, something that was respectful, respectable. So we did, we didn't put in for CIPs at deployment. And the PL, you know, all the nerds got their CIPs based off, you know, being mortared in a safe base and taking contact. But like, we didn't shoot back. We didn't, we didn't do much. There was, it was a very boring deployment. Like, honestly, I thought I was going to be kicking indoors, you know, I was going to be dropped in rounds on people's heads. That's what I signed up for. That's what I was, that's what I've been training to do.

1:34:27And, you know, they talked it up to where, you know, your QRF, you might get spun up at some point and you might have to do, you might have to drop rounds. I was a 60 team at that time. I was just an ammo bearer, you know. Do you want a real quick, just explain for people watching this if they're not familiar that you guys have the 60, the 81 and the 120 and kind of like what those systems are? Yeah. So the 60 meter and mortar system, you could just Google it, look at a picture. There's two versions of it. There's a handheld version and it has a way more limited range. And I want to say it's like 1300. Don't quote me on the numbers, but it's not that far. And that's just handheld. That's because if you shoot a higher charge, you're going to break your hand. So then there's a conventional version, which is just more weight they have to carry. It has a bipod and a base plate that are bigger and support the recoil of the rounds with a heavier charge. A charge is just like the gun powder makes the round go further.

1:35:28But that's what I was on the 60 team for that deployment. And then there's what's called an 81 millimeter mortar system. The millimeters is the size of the round. So 60 millimeter at 81 and 120's are the three the US uses. And I've been a part of all of them. But for this deployment, I was just an ammo bearer for a 60 team. And we just trained. We trained the partner forces. We got to watch some tanks shoot other tanks, like just in training scenarios. We got spun up for QRF. We got on the plane and we flew around. And we never touched ground. So it was more of just the piece, piece formation. We went on runs. We climbed mountains. It was honestly, for military, that was some of the best times I had was. I was left to my advice as no one was micromanaging me. No one was screaming at me. I got to talk to ODA teams, other operators that were working out in the gym.

1:36:30And what they did sounded cool too. I was like, that sounds like more fun. And ODA teams, I don't know what they call themselves now, but they were going by Gables Tho and at the time. They'd be walking through. I was like, those guys are so cool. They don't have to wear anything. What do they do? They're contractors. I was like, what's that? And they explained contractors versus Delta. And there's like, which one's which? They're like, we don't know. I was like, what do you mean you don't know? Don't they work for us? Yes and no. They kind of just do their own thing. I was like, well, that looks like fun. I want to do that instead. But at the point of it, I got to do a lot of just working now and just practicing. You get unlimited ammo and you get to just be there. You get to enjoy the time you're there, especially on deployment where it's just maintaining peace rather than being the front-line. We were QRF. They never really needed us because we never got spun up.

1:37:31And when you got home, you're a little bit salty right now. And they sent you off to Ranger School. Yeah. And I was the only mortar that deployed that year. There was only one slot for deployment. And they picked me probably because I was one of the try-hards. I was always trying to prove everyone else that I was trying to prove it more to myself than I'm better than everyone else. But in turn, prove to everyone else that I'm better than them. But yeah, my team later told me I was going to go to Ranger School when I got back. He's like, he's going to make it happen. I was like, OK. I was like, I don't want to go. But can you just talk and give me some advice? He's like, yeah. Quit tomorrow. I was like, what do you mean quit tomorrow? He's like, well, whenever you feel like quitting, just tell yourself you'll quit tomorrow. And then when you wake up tomorrow, tell yourself the same thing. I was like, that doesn't make sense. He's like, no, no. You'll understand when you get there. I was like, whatever. So I run into a lot of problems because of my mouth.

1:38:35And at the time, I didn't know. I had a lot of things that I wasn't like, I didn't know. I had a lot of issues I haven't dealt with. Like sleep apnea, PTSD, anxiety, depression. There wasn't a label for it yet. I was just very young. And I go to pre-Ranger. And while I'm there, you know, I'm still being myself. Ego through the fucking roof. The challenging people is like, I've literally remember getting into arguments with the first bat mortars. Me being a little bit more salty, you know, I deployed and they were undeploied. It's like, you guys don't know what you're talking about. I'm better than you. You know, second bat's the best bat. Just your generic, egotistical arguments. And I took it a step further. You know, I called them out. And I was like, we're at cold range. And for those of you that don't know, it's just a suck fest. They make you walk forever. You do push-ups. You set up a triangle where you just, you're essentially camping on steroids.

1:39:35And they're hurting your feelings the whole time. But when I'm out there, I had enough. You know, I'm mad that I'm here. I'm mad that these guys are poking me all the time. And finally, I go to this kid and I was like, if you want to fight me, bro, I'll meet you at the patrol base afterwards. Like, like, full ego. Like, I'm ready to throw hands with this. And he didn't show up. He didn't want to fight. I don't say no, remember that part too clearly. Show up at the PV tonight is a pretty good line, though. Yeah, I don't remember. But what I do remember is that my squad after Pierce hated me because of it. Just because I was always trying to ego everyone, talking shit to everyone. And one thing that did me in was I had sleep. I couldn't sleep. I slept so heavily that I couldn't be working up for one of my night shifts. And finally, I woke up and they're like, bro, you had fire guard. I was like, why didn't you wake me up?

1:40:35Like, we tried. You wouldn't wake up. I was like, well, I'll just go do it now, then. And I stayed up with the next group. And they're like, well, you didn't do it with your actual group. So, you know, your piece of shit because of it. I was like, whatever, man, I don't care. Your words can't hurt me. Your bitch fuck you. But then I get I get peered out. We go to Pierce and I'm bottom of the totem pole. And I'm making my argument at this point, you know, I'm very copperane because I've been studying, like, just laws and stuff, the rules and regulations. I had them all memorized. And it was a losing argument for me. There was no world where I won that just because they had that evidence of, you know, you're trying to fight people. You're arguing with instructors. You're missing time hacks by sleeping in. And it was like, I couldn't wake up. It wasn't like they're like, oh, you woke up and then you just rolled over. It's like, I don't know what to tell you, man. I don't remember that. And I've heavily remembered talking to the douchebag in charge.

1:41:38And we're having a one-on-one. He's like, he's just going off on me. He's like, oh, you're a piece of shit. You're not made for regimen. You're never going to be a ranger. You're going to go straight back. You're going to be a nobody. I was like, OK. I was like, what are my options? He's like, it's not up to you. It's up to your command sergeant major. You're lucky he's in town. I'm going to talk to him tonight. I was like, OK, I'll go back to the barracks and hang out. So like, that class left, you know, it was just me and the anti-barics all by myself, fucking miserable. So lonely and there, it's just contemplating life. It's like, how did I fail this? You know, I studied patrol bases. I studied tactics. I studied for a ranger school. I memorized the whole fucking book. And like, down to the snares, I studied it so hard just because I wanted to be that prepared. But he talks to my command sergeant major. And he comes in my lonely barracks where I'm just by myself sitting on my bunk. And like, the rest of the bunks are completely empty. It is so quiet in there. And you know, I stand up, go to parade to rest. And I was just like, how's it going to command sergeant major?

1:42:40And he's like, sit down. Just talk to me. And I tell him exactly what happened. He's like, that's why they want to send you back. I was like, yeah, what do they tell you? I was like, what's your side? And so he's like, it's a lot more different than what you said. But I think you should have another chance. You're just going to stay here and recycle. And this was pre-ranger. This was the even ranger school. I had lost, I lost 20 pounds already from that pre-ranger class. And so I had to do it again. I had to do pre-ranger again. And I want to name drop this. Asshole is so bad. But the guy in charge, I won't name drop him. Because I should let it go. I don't want to. I'm not ready to let it go yet. Just because I'm still mad about it. But he put me in charge. I was the platoon leader. I was the guy that was getting in trouble. I was the dude that had to stand there while the rest of the class sky haze just to build that resentment. But I just got my head down. I sucked it off. I was like, there's no winning these arguments.

1:43:42I just have to do exactly what they ask of me. And the second time is always easier, just because you know exactly what's going to happen. So I do. I keep my head down. I help people where I can. It's like, I really did this. This is what we're going to do. These are the objectives we're hitting tonight. I know exactly what we're doing. We should have approached this way in this way. This was when leadership changed. And I was in leadership roles. It was like, I know the best way to hit this because I don't have done it. And I'm graduating that time. Go to, unfortunately, go to Ranger School. And at this point, you know, I lost like 25 pounds. It is insane. You send me to go to Ranger School. And then you start me before I get starved. It makes zero sense in my mind. But I'll let you ask the question. Yeah. I'm not here to throw any shade because I had an extended deployment at Ranger School myself. I was at Vons Platoon out there at Camp Darby long enough. I thought they were going to rename it Murphy's Platoon. You had an extended stay in Ranger School as well, didn't you?

1:44:46Sure did. Yeah, it didn't stop from you there. So you get to Darby. And I'm still like, you know what's it's like going on. I'm still trying to do like the most. I'm asking like, what do you guys need for me? My problem was I wasn't asking the correctly. I was more of like, you're wrong. And here's why. And you talk to a fresh PL who's fresh out of eyeball again. They've never been talked to the way I'm talking to them ever. Yeah. Childhood military career. No one is as raw as a Ranger from Regiment. And it's just like, you're wrong. You got to do it this way. Or else we're going to walk through a swamp. We don't have to walk through. And they're like, no, you just do the terrain model. That's what you guys want me to do. That's what I'll do. I'll go build a terrain model. I'll go play with sand. Sure. And that's where they put me a lot of times was the terrain model, just because they don't want to listen to me in the planning phase. Unless I was in the leadership role. But it was for good intentions. It was like, I don't want to suck more.

1:45:47I don't want to go through a river when there's a bridge. And they're like, yeah, no, but they're going to be expecting that. I was like, I don't care. Well, we'll fight them back, whatever. And they're like, no, we got to go through the hardest part. That way they don't expect it. And even the casual would be like, you don't have to do that. You don't have to make this hard. They're like, you don't have to make this harder. Believe it or not, we have to go through the river too. But he's like, yeah, he's going to do it. So I ended up getting peered out again. And this time I'm sitting in front of the first sergeant. And I've done this before. I'm experienced. I'm wetted down. I know exactly what I need to say to not get in trouble. And I was just putting out my counter argument. I was like, first sergeant, respectfully, these people are a bunch of bitches. I heard their emotions. And that's the reason I got peered out. And he just stared at me for a second. And he looks at the four officers then and there. And he's like, what is your guys' side? And they all go through. And they're like, yeah, well, he screams at us. He's always trying to take control of everything.

1:46:50And he doesn't respect the rank structure. There is no rank structure. Yeah, exactly. He's like, stop. He's like, everyone is equal here. You guys are all fucking nobody. He looks at me. He's like, get the fuck out of here. Go back. You're going to the next phase. I was like, sick. And I don't know. When you peer out, there's two groups. There's three groups. The people recycling, the people that quit, and the people going to the next phase. And everyone is expecting me to go to the recycling group. So I started walking towards them. And then I did a half-right phase and then walked to the boys. And they were all just happy to see me. They're like, oh, yes. We thought you got peered out. I thought that was the end for you. And that's the only phase I made. I made a straight through. I get to mountains. Yeah, mountains. It wasn't even in my fault. Mountains was just, it was raining way too much. It was freezing in the morning where just leaping bag

1:47:52is crusted over. And then it rained on my graduate patrols. So I ended up just failing patrols. So it was in mountains where I had an in-grow tonal massive. It was hurt. I was my socks were bleeding through and stuff. And I went for, I want to say it was two weeks before I actually asked for help. And just because it hurts so bad, I couldn't endure the pain anymore. And I finally asked the medic, I was like, can you take a look at my tonal it hurts? And he's like, sure. And he takes my sock off. It's all bloody and stuff. And he's like, you have an in-grow tonal. You know that, right? Yeah, I know. I just don't want to get recycled. Because they're not going to recycle you. They're going to cut it out and send you right back. I was like, yeah, but it's going to, I have to go back to base. And I'm probably going to get recycled. I don't want to get recycled. I'd rather just suck it up for this phase. And he's like, no, you can't. I have to send you back. So they send me back and they cut it out. It's literally the size of a quarter ingrown into my foot.

1:48:53And they're like, they're like, you were just walking with this? I was like, yeah, it fucking hurts. And they're like, you know, you didn't have to? I was like, no. I thought if I came over here, I'd get kicked out. They sent me right back. They're like, I get back to the groove. And it wasn't the big deal I made it out to be. They bandaged me up. They gave me like things to keep it from getting effective. So I just had to apply that. But like, I was just sucking for the love of the sport at that point. There was no reason behind it. But yeah, I ended up failing mountains in. That was the first time, you know? I actually got to refit. And I didn't know that you could just eat as much as you want. So in these refit phases, I was grabbing everything. You know, I was stacking to my plate as high as I could. And they're like, doesn't it hurt your stomach? I was like, yeah, but I'm going to need it for the next phase. And like, you know, when you recycle, you have a million times more energy than anyone else. Because you've been getting fed. You know, you didn't go through Darby.

1:49:54You didn't have that. You didn't have that reset. So the second time I go through mountains, I'm just way more aware of everything going on. And I got lucky where we did a lot of patrols that we've done before. I did this ambush. I know exactly how the layout is. So we're going to do exactly how I say or else, we're going to fail this miserably. And luckily, this studio group listened a little more. And they were a lot more respectful. Because it wasn't LT heavy. It was a lot of enlisted guys. So they were more willing to listen. And this where I met a good friend that I lost contact with. He was a command sergeant major. He was 50 years old and J Sock. He was like, what are you doing this for? I was like, no one want. Yeah, he was super old and like, he struggled a lot. And we were Ranger buddies. We were always next to each other just by design, I guess. And I saw him struggling. And I was like, I was like, well, hurts. He's like, bro, everything.

1:50:54I'm old, you know? This is important for me. I was like, how can I help you? He's like, honestly, if you take the ropes and the machine gun, when I have it, I really appreciate it. I was like, of course, man. Like, I'll do anything to make this easier for you. And that's what I did. I took the machine gun from him. I took his ropes. I took the special equipment every time he had it. And he loved me for it. It's just that mutual respect part of it. And he's like, when we get out of here, if you ever need a favor, I work for the legal side of the military. You ever need a favor? You got one. I was like, I don't know. That's a friend you need at Wardo. Yeah, definitely with the way I was going. But I met him there and we get through mountains. And then we get split up. We go to different platoons. So I didn't see him again after that. And I graduated that phase just because I did the same objective that I felt. So I had already gone over it in my head so many times. It was like, what could I have done better?

1:51:55And obviously, don't go through the water. Set up, don't set up an ambush from the low ground. Obviously, don't shoot uphill. Go around, take the high ground. Just very generic. I was way too tired to come up with an actual plan. But it's like a time, I think I've not peered out again just because I was the new guy. But they didn't care. It was more of a, you got peered out because you're the imported. You didn't grow up with these group of people. And I get to swamps and believe it or not, I recycled swamps. I recycled swamps because during one of my patrols, someone lost their nods in the water. And it was because it wasn't tied down. It wasn't even my fault. It wasn't up to me. Your response was over everything the patrol does or fails to do. Yeah, sure was.

1:52:57So that's the reason I recycled that phase. That phase was, honestly, cool. I like the talent show they did where you got to go look at snakes and stuff. Oh, yeah, they probably throw the snake at you. Yeah. Yeah. But at that point, I lived there. I'd been there for at this point close to eight months from pre-ranger to that point. I'd been there for eight months. I was starving. I was super skinny. I was, I think I had lost like 50 pounds by that phase. And, oh, no, I didn't even, it was part of the reason that I recycled was the nods. And then I got peered out. So I went to another board. I don't even know if it was the nods I got me that, I don't even think that was my patrol. But I know that I got in trouble for that for whatever reason. It was like, OK, I think he was in my squad when he lost his nods. But it wasn't my great patrol. That's what it was. But I ended up getting peered out that phase too. And it was a lot of the same.

1:53:59It was the way I talked to people. Like, you're going to listen because I am right. And you are wrong. And this is why I got here that way. So I got here that way. You think I'd learn, but I didn't. And at this point, the first sergeant that's sitting there, he knows my background. He knows I've been there for way too long. He sees me. He's like, brother, you're starving. You are not going to be able to make it through this next phase. You're not going to be able to recycle again. This is it. You either pass swamps or you're done. I was like, well, I can only do the best I can. So I'll stay. He's like, you should go home. A lot of people make it to this point. And unfortunately, it's not for everyone. You just hang up the hat. You struggle enough. You prove to yourself that you could do it. I was like, no, I didn't. I need the badge. And he's like, well, I know at the end of the day, you're going to stay. But I actually believe you should go home.

1:55:01I was like, I'm not doing it. But he's like, but if you felt this phase again, you're done. I can't recycle you again. I was like, all right, good enough for me. And I'm walking out. I'm bawling, man. I didn't want to recycle again, especially for peers. It's like helping, trying to help the best I could. And unfortunately, it was just the way I talked to people that got me in trouble. But at the recycle, I did it again. And this time, I'm being way more strategic. I was like, well, I'm going to make two to three friends. I'm up here the highest at this point. We're going to do the peer triangle. And peer triangle, which means where in Ranger school, you make two or three friends. You guys peer each other number one. It's like a great thing from first to last. And if you're first on two or three of your friends, you can never be at the bottom. And that's just the scheme that people do while they're there. And I thought I did it. I did the phase again.

1:56:02It was easy because I'd done it before. I made sure everyone's thing was tied down double-naughted. I checked every single one of them. I wasn't even the platoon leader. I was just checking them because I was traumatized. But no one lost knots, surprisingly. I made it through. And then I got peered out again. So at this point, I'm defeated. I'm done. I have nothing left. And there wasn't even a peer border. It was just me and the first sergeant. And I was like, you don't have to explain it to me. I was like, I know I'm done. If I'm in this office, I shouldn't be in here. And if I'm in here, there's something wrong. He just looks at me and starts laughing. He's like, no, I knew you were going to peer out. He's like, you're good, man. Go get your tab. Get the fuck out of here. Bro, I start bawling. Yeah, two to join. If they didn't give you your tab,

1:57:02they wouldn't have to deal with you coming back to the school at some point. I mean, it's like, Jesus, get them out of here. Yeah. So this is where graduation happens. And at this point, one of my biggest motivators was to prove that guy wrong that told me I wouldn't amount to anything in the peer barrier. Yeah. And he comes up to me and he's like, oh, I knew you could do it. I always had it in you. I believed in you. And I just looked at him. And I was like, can I get in the van and go home? I don't want to talk to you. Just trying to be as respectful as I can. Because I know if I say something dumb, it's going to get back to my leadership. But at some point, I slipped up. And I don't remember what I said. I just remember I insulted him because I would just hurt so bad by him doubting me. It was something along the lines of like, why the fuck you lying? You didn't believe in me. You told me I wouldn't amount to shit. Yeah, here I am. I proved you wrong. And now you're my friend. Fuck you. It was something along those lines.

1:58:03It wasn't that word for word. It was that disrespectful, but it wasn't that. But I get my tab. I get to fly back finally, start, got a new chip on my shoulder. Now he goes even higher through the roof. No one could even look in my direction without getting tapped. I am hurting everyone because I can now. You got questions? Pain in stills memory. Hello, everyone. If you're here in this, you are not a member of the Patreon. You can get your hands on ad free episodes that come out early. And you can ask us questions. Maybe we'll answer them. You can also watch the Teamhouse podcast completely ad free and early. And you can also watch it live as we interview our guests. And it's the best way to support the channel. So if you can, if you're open to it, you can go to patreon.com slash the teamhouse. That link is in the description. We appreciate the supporters. And we hope you would consider being one. So it's patreon.com slash the teamhouse.

1:59:05Thanks, guys. Back from Ranger School, freshly minted tab. You're going to be a mortar team leader now. And they deploy you to Syria. Yeah, we do a training cycle. I do a training cycle as a team leader. Very generic. I mean, you've heard it hundreds of times. So I won't go over it. I was a bully. I came up with this fun you 500 Fridays. Every Friday, I will tab check you until you do 500 push-ups. And it got to a point where I wasn't even tab checking them anymore. I was like, you guys keep each other accountable. Let me know when you guys done 500 push-ups. And if you guys do them early, you could go home. Like if it's a lot, I'll send you home. I don't care. But I was a bully. And it was because that's what I grew up with. That's what I knew. Like I took these guys on runs just because I was fast. I knew that that was my domain. I could outrun you. You might be able to outlive me, but I can outrun you all day long. I am not going to give up before you.

2:00:06And one of my first privates actually broke them. I ran them to so hard that his liver gave out. I don't know how. It was in my fall. I was perfectly fine. I was drinking water. I guess he wasn't. But he ended up getting hospitalized. And they gave me a new private. I didn't know why his liver gave out. But he ended up recovering. I ended up deploying with him to Iraq. But that was down the road. But we get deployed to Syria. And this is new and exciting. We haven't been at war for a really long time. No one knows what it's going to be like. And even for me, I was excited to go back and actually get to do what I signed up for. And this deployment, it's fun, but super traumatizing. At the same time. I get to finally do the things I signed up for. We deployed with every weapon system, 60s, 80 ones, and 120s. We didn't use the 80 ones at all. We mostly used the 120s.

2:01:07And the 60s, the team guys would take those and use them on super secret squirrel missions, where they just leave us at the base and go disappear for a little bit. But that deployment was nice. We get to undisclosed location, one of the bases. And it is super nice there. I was not expecting to have running water. I was not expecting to have a team room. There's alcohol and there's everything you could ever ask for. There's a private chef. And it's like, what is this? This is not deployment. And we're there for a couple of days just getting fitted, getting the local uniforms, all that stuff. Just getting situated with the layout of the battlefield. And what our role is there. And we test our other weapons. We outfit our vehicles, up armored range rovers that are way too heavy. So they blew tires all the time.

2:02:09But first convoy, we drive for a really long time. And we're rocking a convoy of way too many vehicles. And I was like, this is scary. Like we're in the up armored range rovers, I think they are. I don't know what to do. But they may have been. Yeah, but we're in those. And the first time we go out, we blow a tire. And we have run flats. And we do a tactical tire change. It's like, well, we're just sitting ducks out here, aren't we? And you want to these tractor trailers could be a v-bit. And we all just die. And I was like, well, I guess if that happens, you know, it's out of my control. But we drive somewhere for like two hours. And that's when the first time we actually get to drop rounds on people. Well, what we did is we'd sit back and we give the village a two day notice of, we're going to bomb the shed of this place. Get out.

2:03:09If you're not ISIS, we're going to bomb it. And they had refugee camps set up. So they had somewhere to go where there was food and water and shelter. After the two days, that's when we start dropping mortar rounds. And we were dropping over 100 a day. We had a truck outfitted for just carrying our mortar rounds. And the person that drove it as a- Those 120s are like that, right? Yeah, they're massive. I don't remember weights because it's so long ago. I got out in 2018. But they're heavy. But we were dropping close to 100 rounds a day. And it didn't feel real. It was no different to me than just training. Because I wasn't watching where the rounds were going. And we had ISR. But it just felt like a video game for so long. And we kept doing it. We'd go out for, I want to say it was five days out, two days back, something along those lines. And it wasn't until halfway through the deployment where it finally got real to me at some point,

2:04:09after doing it for so long, going through the villages, seeing all the destruction and stuff. Because we bombed the village, sent a partner force in, and then we'd go in behind them. Once they deemed it was safe. And obviously, there's still random IDs and all that stuff. Still people hiding in the tunnel shooting at us. But we were very blessed in the sense where we never saw direct contact, other than like BVIDs. And it was at such a distance that it didn't seem like there's a whole thing. That was intentional. But you guys were providing a lot of indirect fire because they didn't want American soldiers like an indirect combat. Yeah. Yeah. Like the notable thing for me was we were dropping rounds and then after we went into the village, there's the backspray of an RPG. And you just see the silhouette of a body. So in my mind, what I pictured is a mortar around landed.

2:05:10This guy got scared, pulled aimed our PG down and pulled the trigger. And then that's why he blew himself up right there. And it was like, oh, shit. I actually have some part in this. And it was in the same village that some five-year-old kid just screaming at the top of his lungs at me. And at the time, my little brother was the same age. And I just see my little brother in this kid, brown little kid, angry at the world. And I was always with the interpreter, just because I was the only brown dude. And I guess he gravitated towards me. But we would bullshit a lot. And the kid screaming at me. And I try to ask the dude, what's he saying? But it's so loud, like driving and all that. He didn't really hear me. So I wait till we get back to the base. And I finally talked to him. I was like, you remember that little shit at the corner? What was he screaming at me? And he was like, oh, just your generic propaganda. I said, bullshit. He's going to kill your family. I was like, what do you mean? He's going to kill my family when I do to him. And he's like, bro, you killed his dad last night

2:06:12when you were dropping mortar rounds. I was like, me? I was like, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, no, that's what he was saying at least. I was like, oh, this is real. Yeah. And at that time, we had ISR where I got to watch as my rounds that I dropped were lighting up a compound. And there was three or four people running out. And as they were running out, the mortar rounds were striking right where they were. And they just vanished. There was nothing left. And it was like, oh, this is real. This is not a game. And from there, I lost the purpose. I lost the reason in this, too. Why were we doing it? I started being more analytical about it. Given the same situation from their point of view, I'd probably be doing the same thing. But at the end of the day, I still had a job to do. So I kept doing my job. And that's slowly, that's where I saw the shift. That deployment was where I started to realize a lot of what

2:07:15we were doing. Yes, we're hoping. But we're also hurting a lot of people. Yeah, it's sad in the sense that, I mean, it's one thing, if someone is ideologically aligned with ISIS, at least I'm not going to lose any sleep over that. But there were people, as you know, ISIS would come into the village, they'd saw the old man's head off, and be like, hey, if you don't join up with us, this is what's going to happen to you. And so you have a lot of like 15-year-old kids press ganged into joining ISIS. And that's sad. That does bother me. Yeah. And I was just very nosy in the sense where I just gravitated to the Kurds. And I would take the interpreter with me, and I'd be like, can you translate? I just want to ask some questions. And I just asked very probing questions of like, why'd you join this side? And like, why have you been fighting so long? And the Kurds did this thing where they'd fight to align, and then they wouldn't want to fight past that. That was their boundary. That's their land. They don't want to push into any territory.

2:08:15And I was like, why? Well, why do we stop here? Is like, we go a little bit further. That's where they're stronghold, you know? But they would explain it. And they're like, bro, we've been at war a whole life. We don't know anything else. We were born into this. We've been fighting since forever. We don't know another option. It's like, that's sad. You were born into war. Your son's going to be born into war. And this is just a never ending cycle. But I had a couple of close calls as well. We were there. We had a beaver that got really close. And I was facing the opposite way that from where it was coming, pulling security. And me being the nosy self, I was like, I told my buddy, who was a man in a machine gun. I was like, I'm a good luck. And I peaked my head over the berm. And at this point, everyone's lighting up. You got a 50 cow on it. You got a bunch of people shooting at it with small arms.

2:09:16And someone grabs a javelin. And this is the first time I see a javelin do what it's supposed to do. And I'm just being nosy. I'm just peeking over. Just trying to be involved, but trying to see what's happening. And I see this javelin. Absolutely wrecked this car. Just absolutely turned it to scrap pedal. And we drive past it. So I actually got to see the aftermath of it. And there was nothing left. It was just like, there's a tire. There was no engine. I was like, that car was moving. There has to be an engine somewhere. It was gone. And it was just so crazy that the level of explosion that created just from one javelin. It was at that same base where, because we'd set up essentially patrol bases as we went, set up a triangle. And we'd defend that while we're shooting mortarounds. And it was at that same place that me and my buddy were just sitting there bullshitting, because that's what you do. And there's nothing going on. We hear a round whiz ride past me. It's like the rounds here, my buddy's right here.

2:10:20Barely the round is two feet away. My buddy's another two feet away. And we're both stunned. We don't know what just happened. My reaction time was faster, where I knew that we got shot at. So I got down and got to the ground. And my buddy was frozen. He just stood there. I threw my kid on. And I told the team leader, I was like, I think we just got shot at. And at this point, my buddy's catching up. He's like, yeah, we got shot at by someone. And then the team leader verifies. He's talking to the partner forces. And coming to find out, one of the partner forces was shooting at a vehicle. And as the vehicle drove between where we were, he just kept shooting. So he was shooting at us. It was the partner forces shooting at us. And I was just lucky. Now I just two steps to the right. That's my face. I wasn't wearing a helmet. I wasn't wearing any protective gear. But that instant is what just accepted death. I was just like, if it's going to happen,

2:11:21it's going to happen. I have no control over it. We got mortared a couple times where it was super close. That's how I got my combat infantry badge on paper. This was down the road on, I want to say, like three quarters of the way through the deployment were sitting at a fob. And at this point, it's routine. There's nothing new. We're finding targets on ISR. We're leveling them out with mortars. And it's just casual. It's not even a stressful job anymore. It's like, here's your target. I'm sure you've seen the videos that I post. I'm having a good time while I'm there. But while we're at this place, we get the first incoming round. And at this point, I've never heard. I've never been on the opposite end of mortars or artillery. So I didn't know what it sounded like. And to me, it just sounded like an air asset flying overhead way too low, like the whistling sound. And it impacts it super far away.

2:12:22It's like 500 meters away. And it's like, OK, that was close. Where's that coming from? So we just started lobbing rounds in where we thought it was. We were laid on a position already. So we just started dropping rounds. And we're not being accurate. We're just dropping rounds wherever they go. Because we don't know for sure if that's it. So we're going to send some probing rounds. And hopefully, we scare them enough to make them stop. But they shoot another round. And this one's scary. It's close. The whistling sound was way shorter. And it impacted probably like 50 meters away. And for whatever reason, we were all just super lucky that wherever someone was standing, there was no shrapnel. It just hit the berm perfectly. And you saw the sparks. You saw the dust kicked up in the air. And that's when we decided this place. So we're panicking. Our base plate is dug in. You just don't pick it up. It's 130 pounds.

2:13:22And it's buried in a Syrian dirt, which is concrete. So we had a grab recall that lifted up. But it's like a two-man job. And everyone's panicking. We have stuff everywhere. We have our sleeping systems laid out. Like, we're over here camping. We're not out. Or we're over here having a good time. So we started displacing. And then we're just grabbing everything as fast as possible. And at one point, I look around. And I'm down a man. It's me, just for reference. It's me and two other Rangers and our platoon sergeant. And me and the other two Rangers are struggling. We're trying to force this base plate out. We're digging it out. I look up and I'm trying to find our platoon sergeants. Like, why isn't he helping us? And come to find out, he was stunned. He froze. He stayed in the passenger seat and couldn't move. And I went up to him. You know, I hit him on the helmet. Like, can you fucking help us, please?

2:14:23And he just couldn't hear me. He kept his eyes forward and he just couldn't move. And luckily, we displaced fast enough before another round landed. And we left that area. But that's when I started to lose respect for the platoon sergeant who was an important, he wasn't born and raised regimen guy. And that disdain grew. We took our artillery a couple other places like in villages. It just hit buildings around us. It wasn't that serious. I was nosing. And when they were trying to sniper targets, I was on binos just being like, I had no business watching it. But I was trying just to see just because there's nothing else to do when you're deployed. But stuff like that. And then another memorable incident for that platoon sergeant was we're doing shifts on the infrared. I forget what it's called.

2:15:23It's just a camera that's an infrared. I'm pulling security on 180 degrees of an area. We just cycled off of it because we were trained on it. And we do either one or two hour shifts. And I thought it was sleep one night. So I accidentally did the shift of another person. So it was me. It was a team guy. And then it was the platoon sergeant. So I accidentally did the team guy's shift. And oh no, I did the platoon sergeant shift. And it was the team guy's next. But in my mind, it was like, well, I'll just go wake up the platoon sergeant because he's next on the list. And I go to his tent. I was like, hey, bro, I accidentally stayed up too long. I didn't want to admit that I fell asleep. So I just lied to him. I was like, I stayed up too long. It's your turn and pull shift. And he looks at his watch. And he's like, you did my shift. Can you just go wake up the next guy? I was like, no, I want to go to bed, man.

2:16:25I'm tired. And he's like, oh no, he should be over here. He should be inside this building on three doors down, whatever. So I was like, sure, whatever. I'll go wake him up instead. So I go over there. And there's no one in there. So I go back to the platoon sergeant. It's like, I can't find him. You want to go look for him and ask him, or can you just pull the shift? I want to go back to bed. He's like, oh no, actually, he's in this room. And so I go looking for him. And I don't, I can't find him. I don't know who he's talking about. I don't know where he's sleeping. Like there's a bunch of random dude sleeping everywhere. So it's hard to tell how hard to pinpoint the dude you're looking for. So I just go do another shift. Like I do six hours straight. And at this point, I'm exhausted. I haven't slept. And the sun's coming up. And that was the last shift of the night. I just lost more respect because instead of just getting up and doing his shift and giving the other guy a break, or even doing what he wanted, getting up and waking up to do it. Because we knew where the next dude's slept because you had to point out, you talked to the person that you were waking up.

2:17:26And they're like, all right, I'll be right here. So you knew where he was. I didn't know. I was exhausted. I was so tired to comprehend. And there was just too many people sleeping next to each other where I'd look at undernaught. And I was like, I don't know if that's him. But I ended up just doing like six hours. And I was just exhausted. We did a couple of fire missions. And I just ended up passing out on the chair. And they're like, what's wrong? I was like, I'm tired. I haven't slept. And they're like, oh, yeah, that's normal. That along with the overpressure, you're just going to lose gaps in your memory. And I was like, OK, I didn't do anything. And I just, I was just so mad about the principle behind it, the integrity part of it. So I told the team, the guy in charge of the team, the Delta guy. And he explained to him what happened. He's like, that's not right. I'm going to talk to him. So he talks to him and he gets the same story. And he talks to me again. He's like, so we got the dilemma.

2:18:28You know, we could send them back the only problem. It's going to look really bad for us because we're sending back an import, an import blin tune sergeant based on a team leader's word. And it's just not going to look at for anyone. He's like, I recommend like just ignore him. We'll give you guys the fire missions and he could just be like safety checks. We'll just rework it that way. And then from there on out, it was just me and my two friends doing most of the work. And he was just supervising, give him a title so he'd feel important. But after that, you know, it was a lot easier. We started doing a lot more reckless things because we were in control and we shouldn't have been. We allegedly, allegedly reach past the max distance on the 120's just because we were barely outside of range. Max range is like 7200 meters on the 120's. Well, the tube goes a little further down.

2:19:28Let's see if we can force it down. So I told my buddy and he's like, okay, yeah, we could try that. So we drop it in there normally and it's moving so slow. You can hear it going down the tube. It's the bottom. You hear the dink and like it has like a three second delay before it goes off. Like I thought we just misfired, but it goes off. And we wait for this flash and the team guys like, that was really close. Can you send it a little further? I was like, we can try. I was like, hey, bro, this time throw it down the tube and then move your hands real quick. So we crank it down in another two turns and he throws it down the tube and. He's like, yeah, that look good. That hit the target. Meanwhile, me and my buddy was like, that was the dumbest thing we could have ever done. Why did we do that? I was like, I don't know. It sounded like a good idea in my head. But for whatever reason it worked out, we just got lucky in that situation. Because like we were running a gun.

2:20:28We were one of 120 and the other two guys were running their own 120 gun. So we were really separated. So like if we had a misfire, they'd have to stop what they're doing. They'd have to come and we'd have to be a whole thing. Yeah, yeah. That would suck. Yeah, but we're not lucky. And then you re-deployed back to the United States and the last one was to Iraq, right? Yeah. So I re-deployed to or I got back to the States and this is when I met my wife and. That's when the shift started, you know, this whole time I thought I wanted to go SF. I wanted to go Delta and at the time I was a corporal, I believe. And I thought, or I was a fresh sergeant or one of the two. And I reached out because. But that deployment, they're like, oh, you should try out, you know, for for the team. I was like, okay, sure. I got nothing to lose. It sounds like a good time. You know, you guys are nice to me. You guys go by first names. You I'm not getting disrespect that I'm not getting screened at. You guys just tell me what to do. And if I do it right, it's a it's a good job.

2:21:31And if I do it wrong, it's like this is what you could have done better. Instead of like, you know, you're always wrong. So it's like that I like that environment, environment, a whole lot better. So like, yeah, just just just try out, you know, you can name drop us if you want. But it's like in my mind, it's like, now I want to do it myself, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't need a handout from anyone. So I talked to the recruiter and he's like, well, you need to meet this criteria. You don't have one NCO, NCOER. And I was like, I was like, yeah, but I deployed with them, you know, it's like. It filled out for me. He was like, yeah, that's not how this works. You know, you have to meet the textbook standard of having one year as a sergeant. I was like, well, it's either it's either this or I'm getting out, you know, I'm not really enlisting for a maybe or for a try out, you know, and they're like, well, I, you know, there's nothing we can do. There's nothing you could talk about. So I forgot about it. You know, I didn't really carry, you know, I still had time. I saw another deployment. I saw I was still scheduled for a training cycle deployment.

2:22:33So at this time, you know, a lot more wars ramping up. We got the Sierra deployments and the Iraq deployments actually a new deployment for us at the time, were only two, one other Ranger weapons squad and mortar team leader had deployed there. And it was attached to Delta while we were there. It was just the training department of forces again. And I thought it was going to be a lot like Afghanistan when we get there. We do our show for us, you know, let's show them that we actually know what we're doing, because I'm just a kid, bro, I'm 22 years old, you know, I don't know much of anything. I know how to ego people and that's about it. But luckily we had a weapon squad leader who's a little more seasoned, you know, a couple more deployments. He was a e6 about to be e7. And he's like, yeah, this is what we're going to do. We're, I was a press sergeant just for reference. He's like, yeah, we're going to get there and we're going to show him how efficient we are with our weapons, pods and our mortars.

2:23:33That way they respect us. I was like, okay, sounds good, man. How are we getting there? We driving or we're flying in. He's like, we're walking. I was like, why? It's like to show that we can do it. I was like, okay, sounds like I guess. I don't know. He's like, I was like, how far are we walking? It's like, it's like 12k. I was like, with a combat load. He's like, yeah, I was like, oh, that doesn't sound as fun anymore, you know, because we were rocking the conventional mortar. Yeah, yeah. You know, by extra weight. And me, I always ego to the point where I needed more rounds than the combat load. So like normally they're like, take 12 rounds. I was like, we're taking like 20 fuck it. We're going to show these guys how strong we are. And we do it. We get there. We lay on a target. We light it up. It's very efficient. At this point, you know, the the Kurdish team leader, he's impressed, you know, he's never seen that level of efficiency, that level of speed.

2:24:36And just the level of weight that we were carrying, he was actually astonished. He's like, how heavy is that? And I had my private do the math on the rounds and stuff, the way of the bipod and all that. And I gave it to him. He's like, he has walked with that the whole time. I was like, you watched us. You were there. And he just starts laughing. He's like, no, no, I respect it. I think we'll get along just fine. And you know, we do training missions. And I didn't know that this was going to be like, we actually got to do other things other than just training. Like in my mind, I thought I was going back to Afghanistan and it was just going to be a chill, chill with the boys thing. But we did get to go out into the city, you know, just pick up some high value targets and. So like, so amania and Kirk cook. Yeah. Yeah. And I honestly don't remember what cities were going into. I just remember that I wasn't having as much fun as I wanted to because I was just pulling security. And every now and then they'd let me into a building is like, I want to do the building part. I don't want to say, you know, covering X, Y and D sector, so fire, you know, but it is

2:25:40what it is. You know, bottom of the total poll, you got all these top two guys and Rangers are just the lowest because we have the privates. So we were mostly just pulling security for them. And it wasn't too crazy. I had this one incident where this vehicle is just driving at us way too fast. So we're lane prone and we have the weapon squad laid in on it and my buddies on it or my private on it with his laser. And I just stand up and shine my white light at him and he gets way too close. We let him way too close. We should probably lit him up. But in my mind, I just pictured like an Uber driver that was lost and saw like a strobing light and got confused. So I didn't shoot and he finally realized that there was a bunch of dudes with guns pointing at him and he backed up slowly and left. But that was like the only close call that we really had other than like, you know, generic like vehicles like one thing that I was really sad about was.

2:26:41Oh, it wasn't even this deployment. The previous deployment, I was the mini gun gunner and I did so much training for that and I never got to use it. I got to test fire at one time and I'm still salty about that. I wanted to light up a car or something, but on this deployment, I was a 50 cow gunner. And it was just a lot of the same, you know, scanning and analyzing. It becomes routine at some point. It's no longer like a stressful situation. It just becomes what it is. But we did get in trouble while we were there and it's because, you know, we're a bunch of alcoholics with egos. And me, I don't care like what you're ranked is I don't care what you've done. If you talk to me respectfully, I'm going to return that same energy. And one night we're playing poker and one of the team guys is just way too drunk and talking shit. And we're just going back and forth trying to see who's done more and we're just like

2:27:43dropping kill, Cowan and etc. And he's like, oh, bullshit, you didn't do any of that. And this is where I get one positive influence. One of the team guys was like, bro, you should just go to bed. You're not going to win this argument. I was like, you know what, you're right. I was like, thank you for having me. I'll see you guys tomorrow. So I leave. And the way this place was set up was it was Americans, French, a bunch of different nations were all compounded together. And I believe it was the French or Canadians that ended up throwing a party just to like hang out and talk and we got in trouble here. And it was mostly because of our private sky, little too drunk. And me, I get drunk, but I still want to have some level of control. You know, I still want to be able to react to something if something happened. You know, I'm not I'm not blacking out in this situation. So I'm sitting there drinking way too much like everyone else.

2:28:45And I'm watching my private just because, you know, he's my responsibility. And he's too drunk. He's bumping into people knocking drinks out of people's hands, not like on purpose. Just like bumping into them. So I let it go on for a little bit. And then finally I decide, you know, that's enough, you know, you bumped into, you dropped some guy's drink. You know, he was upset about it. So I'm just going to tell you to go home. So I go up to him and I was like, hey, bud, you should go to the fuck home right now. And he's like, he argued with me. He's like, why? I was like, because I fucking said so. And he continues to argue with me. And he's like, well, I'm off duty. You know, I'm not working right now. I was like, I was like, bitch, you're always working. You're in the military. I'm going to make your life hell if you don't go home. And at this point, I'm screaming at him. I'm full rage vote because like, I'm the sergeant. You're a fucking private without a tab. So like, obviously, there's some level of respect there.

2:29:49And one of the team guys over here is us arguing. He's like, yeah, this is getting too escalated. Everyone should just go home. And like everyone does, you know, everyone goes back to their respective compounds. And I knew we were in trouble. I knew that wasn't going to go over well. So I started drinking water. I started chugging like canteens of water, knowing what's coming in the morning. And I wake up early in the morning, I go to the gym. Why? I don't know, because that was my routine. And in the gym, I was like, fuck, I need to go check in. See what they want us to do. And I go check in with the weapons squad leader. And I tell them what happened. I tell them the truth because I have nothing to hide. And he's like, you know what we're going to do, right? I was like, I know what you want to do. I was like, you're going to haze this until someone throws up. I don't want to do it. He's like, you know, we're going to do it. I was like, yeah, I know we're going to do it. I don't want to. So whenever six, we waited until everyone else was awake.

2:30:54So they can see us suffer, although the other team guys and although the compounds. But sunlight comes up and we're out there formation with our canteens, like a bunch of privates. And we're like, we're going to walk this airfield until someone throws up. So we walk it. We do a lap. And at this point, we're a fucking spectacle. Everyone's out there with Bino's just watching us. And the airfield or the compound to walk all around it was like six miles or something crazy. So we do our first lap. And I'm tired. I don't want to keep doing this anymore. It's me and the weapons squad guy. We're walking in the front and all the privates are behind us. I was like, how long are we going, Brad? And I'm fucking exhausted. I'm going to throw up soon. He's like, no, someone else is going to throw up before you just hold it. We're just going. And finally, like two and a half laps in, someone finally throws up. And I was like, can we go home, please? My legs hurt. And like just a one-on-one conversation. And he's like, yeah, we're done after that.

2:31:55I'm tired too, man. He's like, but don't show it. I'm tough when we get back to the privates. So we get back to the privates. We're like, all right. Do you guys learn your fucking lesson? All right, let's go back. Go get ready for the day. We had to run back and get all our equipment and get ready for the training cycle. But it was just like, it was a learning lesson. It's like, you can only show so much. Even like, to me, he was super. I had so much respect for him just because he had actual deployments where he was not in no weapons slot. He was on the line team and he actually got to kick indoors. It was just a respect thing for me that, whatever he said, I respected him enough to where I was going to do it, no matter if I agreed or didn't agree with him. But we do it. And then the team guys are like, you guys are fucking nuts. You guys are fucking insane. We had some choice words for you. But we let it go after watching you guys struggle.

2:32:56And I was like, sweet. We accomplished exactly what we wanted to. And it blew over after that. They're like, all right, they punished themselves. We don't have to punish them. I can imagine on these sorts of like train advise assist type deployments that like Ranger private you kind of got to keep them busy. Like give them something to do, you know, or bad things happen. Yeah, you said no. But I think with a little direction and like a little bit of freedom, you know, like this is where I started letting go control a little bit where I wanted him to max a PT test. And to me, it was just so easy to max a PT test, you know, you can max a PT test. What's wrong? You can't do 80 push ups. Do push ups until you could do 80 push ups. It's not a complex structure. You can't run fast. Well, run more. And he was right on the line. He was like a 95% there. And it was just like just do the other 5% you know, you got to work towards it. It's not just going to happen by itself.

2:33:56But you know, this is where I gave him freedom. It's like you're going to do whatever you want. And if you can pass a PT test at the end of the month, I'm going to keep leaving you alone. And that's where I learned like another form of leadership, you know, I don't have to be the one that that has his hand been to excellence. Like I don't have to be like leading by example in a sense every time, you know, I could just let go of some of the control and expect him to do it. And he did, you know, he was maxing PT test by then the deployment. But you know, they're so simple. Like you just tell them what you want to accomplish. And a lot of times they'll do it real quick, you know. You don't have to micromanage them. And I did that for way too long, you know. It's like, I don't want your negative outcome to be a reflection of me. Therefore, I have to be involved in it. And it was just bad logic, you know. Yeah, no, there's definitely something to that. It depends on the soldier, right? How much supervision they need?

2:35:00Yeah, 100%. He was just more of an adult, you know, where you can tell him to do something and he'd do it. And I just had too many bad experiences. My first private was not the brightest. He had a good heart. But he just, he had in the wrong places, you know. You can tell him to remember this or he had no street smart. It's what it came down to, you know. He was very book smart. Well, as soon as you know something stressful happened, he like shut down and like mess up whatever or he'd overshoot. He put in the wrong numbers. Just very basic like put in stressful situation. He couldn't handle it. So that's where I got a lot of why like, oh, I have to be, I have to be double checking everything. I have to be micro managing. And it was just because that was my first experience with a private. So talk to us a little bit about coming home and transitioning out of the military. It wasn't great. Alcohol was keeping me alive for way too long.

2:36:04It started after that, Afghanistan deployment actually, you know. We get back in, I'm feeling these new emotions, I've never felt before. You know, anxiety, depression. And I didn't know what it was. I just knew I didn't like it. So I go to one of my team leaders. And I start talking to him and I didn't drink at this point. And he's like, well, you know, I've dealt with a lot of things and it was someone I respected. You know, someone who had a couple deployments. And he's like, he was, he was wasted at this point. He'd been drinking for way too long. And he's like, he has me a beer. He's like, your problems will go away at the bottom of his beer. I was like, sweet. So I truck it. I was like, well, this is the cure. Well, he wouldn't lie to me. So I truck it real quick. And I still feel like shit. It didn't solve anything. And I tell him, I was like, hey, man, I don't think that fix it. He's like, oh, it's just drink another one. And if that doesn't fix it, just keep going until it does. So we just get wasted.

2:37:05And that's where like the alcoholism really started, you know. It started with you drink way too much when you were around certain people, but you surround yourself with the right people and you have moderation. And the thing that saved me was probably my wife, you know, when I was around her, you know, I was in drinking to get blacked out drunk. I was drinking for a good time. And I met her after the Sierra deployment. And it was rough being separated on the Iraq deployment. I'd call her every night and we keep in touch. We were married right before that deployment. And that's what carried me over. It's knowing I had something to go back to, you know, for the longest time, I just wanted to die. That was one of the biggest reasons I joined the military. It was easier to die on her, on her belief, you know, in my mind, that was the easiest way to go. I die overseas and my family gets a paycheck

2:38:06and I get my problem solved. And it was that mentality that really did me in, you know, after the military, alcoholism and that mentality were, I was drinking and then I was like, well, what do I do now? How else can I go honorably? Well, I'm gonna be a cop and then I'm gonna join a SWAT team. And that's gonna solve my problems. Not knowing that I had to deal with the underlying issue that I figured out later in life, but after the military, my son is born the same month I get out. So to be completely honest with you, I lied a lot. So I got out the military, I smoked weed. I thought that would solve my problems, you know, I thought that would cure the anxiety. That would help me sleep. And to be in a police department, you can't smoke weed within two years. So I was gonna lie in the polygraph. I had to, there was no way I could pass the polygraph it was completely honest. So I applied to every agency within like 50 miles

2:39:10where my wife's hometown was Baltimore, York area. And I just kept applying for a year and it was just a slow process of, you know, you gotta go try out, you gotta go do this. And this whole time, I'm trying to raise my son, the best I can, you know. I'm gonna stay at home, dad, my wife is going through postpartum. So she decided to go back to work and I was like, yeah, I'm not working so I'll watch my son, you know. I'll enjoy that part of it. And I truly did, you know, I bonded with him. We, I'd have him on my chest while I'm playing video games and he's just napping. And it was a good time, you know, it gave me purpose again. And then after, I got out March 2018 and I was hired as a cop on December of that same year and then my wife decided to stop working so she could take care of the kid. And we swap roles. And same thing, man, my mouth got me in trouble a lot.

2:40:12I didn't stop being myself and that transition from being told, you know, your God's gift to earth, you cannot die, you are unstoppable to... Well, you're just a cop, you're human. You should be nice to people. You can't talk to people this way. That transition was really hard for me. And the police academy, you know, I was egoing everyone, every instructor I ran into, it was like, brother, you're fucking fat, you cannot talk to me this way. Like, I will outrun you like, and I wasn't saying that like that direct but that's what I was thinking in my head, you know, it's like, I will outperform you in any task that you decide. So I just be speaking out, making jokes, talking shit, the norm, the typical military banter. And I was lucky that there was like a marine guy there and another guy who was just very bromontality, you know, like he was all about it. It was like, yeah, fuck these people, they're all dumb, you know, they don't know better. We're better than them.

2:41:12We're gonna run and if... So let me give you the first experience of getting hired by a police department. So I apply, you do your tests, you, it's like the equivalent of an ASPAB, pass that. Then you get scheduled for an interview. Pass the interview, do a polygraph. And I was blessed in the sense where allegedly, there was polygraphs overseas, so I practice. So I knew how to beat them. And it just goes to show how bullshit they are. If I could smoke weed and then... So I smoked weed on in March, and then December's when I was hired. So that was not two years. But I just told myself that it was one time, you know, it doesn't count. And I just told myself enough times, myself that enough times to where I believed it. And I passed the polygraph for whatever reason. I guess I was just honest with myself

2:42:16and there was ways to work around the polygraph. But I passed that and then you go into this limbo phase for a little bit where you're hired on but the police academy doesn't start. So you just go in and do admin BS. And this is where I started to grow the disdain for cops even more, you know. The reason I joined a cop, the reason I wanted to be a cop was, I wanted to see a change, you know. I wanted people to have way more positive interactions than they had negatives. So that was my mentality going into it, you know. I've had so many bad experiences. I don't think I've ever had a good experience with a cop at that point. So it was like, if I could give you a warning, that's what I was gonna do. But I get there and that mentality doesn't seem to be the norm, you know. There's a recruitment officer there and I'm just egoing her because I know I can outperform their PT test and she's like, no, there's no way, you know.

2:43:17You're gonna, you should just be, you should just try to pass it. I was like, I'm gonna max it. What's the max? I don't need to know what the minimum standard is. I don't care about the minimum. I'm gonna do the best. And like, I guess that ego didn't, didn't vibe with her. And she's like, oh, you're just here fully yourself. Blah, blah, blah. I was like, I'm just gonna let my action speak louder than my words. And she's like, okay, let's go for a run. I was like, okay, you coming with me? I was like, oh, no, I have a bad hip. I'll follow you in the patrol car. I was like, if you're scared, just say that. And at this point, you know, she's like, all right, let's do a mock PT test. I was like, okay. I was like, what do you want me to do? And she's like, oh, what's this do push ups so you can do something super low? It's like 50 push ups to max it. So I'm starting her down as I'm doing this push ups and I get to 50 and then I just start counting. I go all the way up to like 80, 90. And I was like, you want me to keep going? And she's like, no, do the sit ups now. And I'm just staring her down the whole time. And I understand how bad it sounds now,

2:44:18but at the time, you know, it's like, you challenged me. So I'm gonna prove my point now. But from that point, you know, that's a stained groove. So when I got to the academy, it's so sad to me, you know, she recruited me. She was the one that was looking out for me in the sense and I was cool with one of the instructors who was also a military vet, you know, we exchanged stories we talked, you know, he was all about the ego part of it. Oh, everyone's tired. Let's do some more push ups. This is easy, you know, because they make you do cadence and I was the one doing cadence. It's just because I knew them. And he's like, I love your mentality. You come in here and you're just happy. He's like, yeah, I got nothing to lose. This is entertainment for me. And he's like, yeah, but like, you're gonna get in trouble. I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, yeah, you're captain, she stopped by and she asked if there's things that you're doing that are not in line with police values. I was like, what do you mean?

2:45:19He's like, she's fishing, bro. In simple terms, she wants to write you up and she just wants to start the paper trail. I was like, you're not allowed to tell me that are you? He's like, I didn't tell you anything. I was like, okay, sweet. I was like, so what's coming? He's like, oh, well, she came in here looking for a rule in fraction and a rule in fraction is the same as the California three strikes. You get three rule in fractions in your out. And the burbage behind it was, although the totality or although there's no one thing you did that violates that constitutes a rule in fraction, the totality of the circumstances, everything combined is a reason you're in the room. You're just sort of overall an asshole. It's kind of the gist. And I agree with him. I wasn't going to deny it, but the fact that they stretched it, and they had this thing where you could take it to trial and then you could argue with them and all that.

2:46:20And I like to be a thorn in people's side. So I was like, I'm going to take it to trial. I'm going to argue with you in court. And I'll start it to the strike. I was like, what are the odds I win this? He's like zero percent, bro. There's no world where you win this argument. But it's bullshit. He's like, I agree. But you're not going to win it. I was like, what do you recommend I do? He's like, bro, just keep your head down. Stop talking. I was like, fine. I'll stop egoing. And then so that's what I did. I just cut my head down and then in time to ask me a question. I'll be like, I'd still have the ego. I'd be like, can I answer this? Am I allowed to talk now? And they're like, yeah, answer the question. I'll answer whatever question there was. It wasn't hard for me. Once I graduated, I was supposed to be awarded every award, the defensive tactics award, the shooting award, the PT award, and the academic award. And I was talking to the instructor that day before they gave the awards out.

2:47:21And he's like, you're not going to like this. I was like, what bullshit do you have for me now? And he's like, you know how I told you you're getting every award? They changed the criteria. So you only get two of them. I was like sick. And I actually have them right here. I don't know, box or what the job is. I don't know, it's in the box somewhere. But I got the KT award and the top gun award. But it wasn't even the fact that I only got those two awards. It was the fact that they were going to give me all four of them. But then they decided to like change the criteria because they didn't want one person getting all four awards. And it was like, what are we doing here? You guys are changing stuff. And they did it with an obstacle course too. They pushed the start line further back for me and my buddy that they knew where we were going to beat the score. So they made the start line further back.

2:48:22And then they didn't tell us that we absolutely crushed this still because it was like the obstacle course, very generic. It was super easy obstacle course, like a kindergarten obstacle course compared to what we've been through. And I egoed them. They're like, oh, you have to stay with your partner. I was like, I'm going to race you brother. And he's like, you're going to lose. I was like, there's no way I'm going to lose. I'm going to win this. And me and my buddy, we raised and I combat dope through windows. Like I was pulling all the stops. And we absolutely crushed it. We beat it by like 30 seconds. And they wouldn't tell us what our score was until like my buddy went back one day for like training. And he's like, you know, we're the highest ranked on that obstacle course. I was like, they told us we lost. Yeah, I saw the award. It's on a wall. You guys, we did the best. I was like, well, why didn't they tell us? He's like, you know why didn't tell us they hate us? I was like, yeah, you're right. But I didn't graduate. Like I didn't even care about the words, honestly. Like for me, it's just another, like I already know,

2:49:25like I could do it. It was just like it's unnecessary. Like I don't know. I wasn't there for the award, you know. What did what did you think about the police department when you got there? And like how did that job kind of like combined with some of the transition or PTSD issues that you were dealing with on the on the back end? Yeah. I think it gave it like a easier offer. And to that makes sense, you know, like you go from trauma, the highest level of trauma and then here's different level of trauma. But everyone, like you felt comfortable in the sense where everyone was experiencing the same levels of trauma. No one was dealing it. Everyone's coping with alcohol. Very few people are actually talking about their emotions. And you could do that for a while. You could do it. It works until it doesn't. But getting there, you know, you quickly realizes that the reason that that police department specifically is the way it is is because that's just how they're

2:50:30trained, you know. They don't want you to be proactive. It's actually the opposite. You get in trouble. You get talking to and I just didn't care, you know. My goal was to do the 44 agencies traffic tickets by myself. And I accomplished that close to every time, every month. That was my goal every time. I'm going to go stop as many people as I can and I'm just going to give them warnings. And I'd get pulled into the office like, what are you doing? I was like, giving warnings, why? And they're like, you should write citations. I was like, what for? They're like, well, it looks bad that you're just giving warnings. You know, your ratio is off. I was like, well, in my mind, if I'm going to be speeding everywhere I go and I stop someone for speeding, why would I write them a ticket? It doesn't make sense. They're like, yeah, but like we need to write more tickets that way it evens out and stuff. I was like, sure, send it to me in the email and then I'll do it because they don't want the paper trail part of it. They wanted the talking to you and then you just do it. Yeah, yeah.

2:51:30Because there are no quotas. Legal since the 80s. Yeah, yeah. Believe it or not, I looked into it. But every argument I went into, I'd get the factual evidence first, you know, I wasn't going into an argument that I knew I couldn't win. And if I was, I was just going in there to piss people off for fun. But they slowly started forcing me out by writing me up for bullshit. So the first time, other than like, I didn't even mention it, the role and fraction of the academy, my own captain wrote in a section where she was like, I too have also spoken with Officer Garduno and he has shown signs of disrespect, etc. And subordination was the terminology. That's part of it. And then the next time I got rid of, we were, I was on, I was on night shift when I got there just because they hated me, obviously. And so I was forced onto night shift and I was not sleeping. I was getting like three or four hours and I was waking up to my son, you know, he's

2:52:35a baby. So he's crying. So like, I was not getting to sleep. I needed. So I was just surviving all caffeine. But like, the less sleep I got, the more attitude I had just because I didn't have the tolerance for it. And one night we get new recruits and they're on night shift. And for whatever reason, I know that this one officer has a DUI, a previous DUI back in the day. And I just look at him and smile and I was like, Hey, brother, you get to be on the other side of a DUI tonight. And I just laugh and walk away. Nothing about it. This is a very generic, typical conversation I have with people like, I didn't even think it was that harsh. I've said way meter things to other people. And I walk away. I go do my job on like most of the agency. I go out and start patrolling, stopping cars, trying to arrest people. And probably like a week later, I get pulled into an office and it's the captain, the patrol captain is like, you know what you said last time? I was like, what are you talking about? It's like, well, do you remember like making remarks towards another officer?

2:53:40I was like, what are you asking me? Do I talk to other officers? I knew exactly why I was there, but I was just playing with him. And he's like, well, at this point, he's like stumbling over his words. He's like, well, what I'm trying to ask is, have you been disrespectful to other officers? I was like, define disrespectful. And we went back and forth. I was like, can you just tell me the quote that you want me to say? And he's like, well, you said to another officer, he gets to be on the other side of a DUI. I was like, I don't remember. I don't remember if I said that or not. I was like, am I going to trouble for this? If so, I want my attorney president because police have an FOP. And that's when he like closes book. He's like, no, no, no, you're not getting in trouble. I just need to talk to you about this. Worst case scenario is just a written reprimand. And then it disappears. And it was like, well, that doesn't sound that bad. I don't care. You give me the written reprimand. I don't want to get a attorney involved. So I get the written reprimand. And I actually felt bad because I thought I heard this grown man's feelings with a joke.

2:54:45So I go back to him and I was like, hey, man, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend you. He's like, what are you talking about? I was like, the joke. I just got pulled into the office. He's like, I got pulled into the office. I told him I didn't care. I thought it was funny. I was like, and who wrote who snitch on me? And I went to my lieutenant. I just wanted to know why I got in trouble. And I was like, hey, how do you mind just looking into this? I got rid of it for a joke I made. I want to know why. He's like, I'm fine, sure. You're always about drama. Can you just do your job? Just joking. I was like, I do the most traffic stats out of anyone here. I don't want to hear it. And he goes, he goes, ask around and come to find out. It was another officer got offended on his behalf. But it gets worse. They decided to write me up when they were at a bar drinking, talking about the incident. And that was the time that they decided he should get in trouble for this. And it was like, yeah, maybe I shouldn't have said that.

2:55:47But at the same time, it's not that deep. Yeah, that was the first sign. Yeah. That was the first sign that I was like, OK, I am slowly not going to be liked here. I made a lot of mistakes just because I didn't know better. And I knew better a lot of the times. I just didn't want to get in trouble or didn't want to deal with the consequences. And I say mistakes. It was a lot of like integrity mistakes on my behalf where I was in arresting police officers when I should have. And one really, it bothers me to this day that I should have taken this guy to jail. So where I worked in Westminster City, there's a bar downtown where there's a one way. And if you're drunk, you're going the wrong way on the one way every time. I don't care if I don't care. It's a bar. It's a one way. You should go the one way. But I'm sitting there across the street just hanging out. I don't even want to do anything. I'm tired. I just want to observe the crowds and just have the presence there because a lot of times, if you're there,

2:56:47people don't like that. They don't get into fights, stuff like that. But I see this car pulling out the wrong way. I don't know the one way. I'm fine. I'll go stop him. So I run to my car. I light him up. And he pulls over right away. And he has the audacity to just hold his badge up to the window. So I knock on his window and I was like, you want to roll the window down, buddy? And he was like, can't you see I'm a cop? I'm one of you. You can just let me go. I was like, you're going to roll the window down, or I'm going to break it and drag you out. And he's like, oh, you're one of them cops. I was like, can I see your license registration and proof of insurance? And I'm just smiling at the whole time he's mad. He has his gun very, very obviously displayed in the center console. And he gets a paperwork. He has it to me. He's still pissy about it. I was like, you keep talking. You're going to talk yourself into Joe. And he's like, oh, you wouldn't do that. Then we'd have like a turf war essentially. I was like, what are you even saying? Like, you know you shouldn't be driving.

2:57:48I'm going to go run you and then I'll go from there. So I go run him Baltimore City cop. And I want to take him to Joe so bad, just because of his attitude. So I call out that I'm on field sobriety. And anytime you call out, you're on field sobriety. Another officer comes for backup just for safety reasons. And it's the supervisor. And I'm talking to him. I was like, I want to take him to jail. And he's like, nah, you should in. It's going to look bad. You know, how about you just let him park his car and then tell him to get a ride home? I was like, but I want to take him to jail. I don't like his attitude. He's like, he's like, just do it, man. I don't want it to paperwork, you know, because if you rest the cop, they got to reach out to the agency. They got to submit the gun. They got to transfer. It's a whole logistical nightmare. It ties him up for a really long time. So I was like, fine, I'll go let him park in the library. That's a one way too. You can only go one way in this library as well.

2:58:49So I was like, I'm going to let you park in this parking lot. I'm going to go sit on the other end of the one way. And I see you drive out. I'm going to take you to jail. And so I drove his car to the parking lot because I didn't want him driving. I was like, get her right home or else you're going to end up in jail. And he's still pissy with me. He's like, oh, I'm going to go talk to him. I was drinking with my captain. He's not going to stand for this. It's like, talk to whoever the fuck you want. I don't care. And I just leave at that point. I drive up. It's like a you turn library. It's like, it's a one way this way. So he parked in on the one side and not just waiting on the other side. So I waited there. And two minutes later, I see the same car pulling out. I was like, there's no way. There's no way this guy has the fucking ego to pull out again. So I lighted up again. I don't care who it is. I told you not to drive that car. I should have towed it. But I light them up again.

2:59:50And it's the same fucking dude driving. I was like, you're going to jail. Hop out. You're doing feel so bloody. And I started doing feel so bloody. And he's wasted. I could have told you from the moment I spoke to him, just from the smell of the car that he was drunk. And I started doing feel so bloody until my supervisor shows up. And he's like, what are you doing? I'm taking the gel. I don't care. I'm fucking over it. And he's like, slow down. Come talk to me. So I hand cuff on my put them in the back of my car. And I go talk to my super, super visors. He's like, think about what you're about to do. You pulled them over. There's a record of you pulling them over. And then you let them go. And then you pulled them over again five minutes later. And then you arrested them. How are you going to explain that to the court? I was like, I don't know. I'll tell the truth, I guess. It's like, that's going to look really bad on your integrity part. I was like, I was like, what would you have me do? It's like, just let me handle it. I was like, fine.

3:00:50Can you tow his car, Elise? Can I tow his car? Can I do something to hurt him? I take his keys and chuck them in the woods. He's like, just let me handle it. I was like, fine, whatever. And I just forget about it. I let it go because that was my first encounter that I actually wanted to arrest a cop. And I didn't. And I talked to him later. I was like, whatever happened to him. I was like, oh, his wife came picked up his car. And they're super thankful. They called him. It's like, yeah, but I sold my integrity. I didn't want to do any of that. I was like, in the future, if I want to arrest a cop, should I just arrest him from the beginning? He's like, that's up to you, man. I'm just going to tell you the consequences. I was like, what do you mean consequences? It's a cop. You should go to jail if he's do you on. He's like, yeah, that's what shit happened. But in reality, what's going to happen is every officer in this county is going to hate you because you're arresting our friends, essentially. And that was just the cop mentality at the time. I don't know if it's shifted. I doubt it. No, no, you got to think positively. It's definitely for the better. It definitely doesn't happen anymore.

3:01:53I'm sure. This was 20. Yeah. And there was a lot of mistakes that I made like that were. It was just so blatantly obvious. You're doing 100 miles in a posted 60. And you're drunk. And you're coming from a police gathering. And you expect me just to let you go? No. Give me your keys. I'm going to chuck them in the lake. Because someone told me I could do that. So that's what I started doing. I was just chucked people's keys into random places. And so I got in trouble for it. Someone complained about it. And I got pulled into the office. They're like, have you been chucking people's keys into the tree lines? I was like, yeah. They're like, why? I don't know someone said I could. I got the green light. They said I couldn't take them to jail. So you know, you punish them by making them walk home. And they're like, stop doing that. You can get in trouble. I was like, why? I was like, it's either that or I take them to jail. I'd rather take them to jail. But I don't want to be like no one as the cop who's arresting other cops. And shortly after that, I got in trouble again.

3:02:57And it was this one's still so annoying to me. So I am downtown. It's like one or two in the morning. And I'm bullshitting with one of my friends as most cops do. You go meet up and you just talk about all the incident and two have. And that's just how they decompress. And we're just talking. And I was like, I see a car. And I was like, that dude's 100% drunk. I see them like two blocks away. He's crossing center line. And his headlights are off. I was like, you want it? He's like, no, this is your sector. You pull them over. I was like, I don't want to do a DUI tonight. I was like, fine, I'll do it. So I follow him. I follow him for half a mile just to get more evidence. It's just like for me, it's like if I got you crossing the center line seven times. And you forgot to stop at a stop sign. It's just more reason. It's just more probable cause. So you finally get to this warehouse parking lot. I light them up and it's suspicious to me. He still has his foot on the brake. And it's very rare that you pull over someone

3:03:59and they keep their foot on the brake unless they plan on leaving. So this whole time, I'm just thinking to myself, what does this guy think? You know, like why is he still think? Like he hasn't let off the brake. He's probably still in drive. I'm just gonna stay here for a little bit. TV tries to take off and he didn't do anything until. I was like, you know, I call down my stop. You know, very generic police talk. Vehicle description, they didn't have a vehicle tag. So I didn't call out tag. Gave, gave, make and model and location. And after that, I kick my door open. I don't even, I don't even sit up. I don't even get out of my patrol car cause I know there's something weird about this. I kicked the door open and that's when he takes off. So I put it, I was still in drive. I, I stepped on the gas and follow him. And my door closes by itself with the momentum. But I start following him and this is my first pursuit. I don't know what a pursuit is. I've read the textbook. I know I have certain things I have to call out. And I started calling stuff out, you know,

3:05:00I'm heading this direction. This is the vehicle description. This is the vehicle speed. We're heading to this intersection. And this agency hasn't had a pursuit in a really long time. So it was new and exciting for everyone. So you have all these officers calling in route. Meanwhile, I can't talk on the radio because everyone else is like coming up with like blocking positions, you know, I'm gonna set up over here to set up spikes or whatever. And the whole time, I'm just trying to get like relay the information that I need to like, uh, I had to call out weather conditions. I had to call out weather conditions. We are directly under the sun now. Yeah, that's what I got written up for. It's failure to call out weather conditions, vehicle tag, and then traffic, traffic data. There was no traffic. It was two in the morning. Me and him were the only cars on the road. But that's what I got written up for. But I'm chasing this guy. We get to this intersection.

3:06:00It's a busier one. And he wants to turn left, I guess, but he decided to lay and he just spun out. But he just did a like a half circle and he regained control and then started heading down this road where I know this road is, it's a sharp turn. I know you cannot go that fast. So I started letting him get some distance on me because I know he's not gonna be able to make that turn at that speed. And he doesn't. He gets a median barrier. He rolls the car, flips it twice. And he's just stuck there. The car's rolled over and I just drive up to him and wait for him to crawl out. And it's one of the locals, I know him. It's one of the local crackheads. One of the bad boys and I was like, what are you doing? He's like, you call me. I'm drunk. I have some dope on me. This car is not mine. He's like, you're gonna throw the book at me. I was like, probably I kind of have to. Why should we run? He's like, I don't know, I got scared. I was like, it's on my car.

3:07:02I was like, is this stolen? He's like, kind of. I was like, what do you mean kind of? It's either stolen or isn't. And he's just talking to me. And since he rolled the car, I had to take him to the hospital. And I'm just bullshitting with him. I don't, it's not that serious for me. I had my moment of fun, but now I could go back to just talking to the dude. Because he was a kid. He was like, 18, 19, just had a rough childhood. I've talked to him before. I've asked him about why he's on the street. I've responded to overdoses involving that person. So I'm talking to him and he's like, yeah, man, I just don't have very many options. So I was a crack baby very early on. Like my mom hated me. I got abused. I was like, well, that makes sense. I see why you are in the situation you are. He's like, and we get to the hospital. And he's like, are you going to charge me with a dope that I'm hiding? I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, I know I'm going to jail. And I have dope somewhere hidden on me. Are you going to charge me with it?

3:08:02I was like, how much is it? He's like, oh, it's just a pipe. It's nothing crazy. I was like, I don't know. I hit you with a misimeter charge if you give it to me. He's like, all right, that's better than the fella. And he was to take it to jail. I was like, all right, whatever. So he gives it to me, hands it over. And it's very casual conversation. I'm not mad at him. I'm not. It's not a big deal. So I take him to jail. I book him and I do all my paperwork at a nice submit and then I go home because it took me all day to do all that paperwork between a vehicle rolling over and I just wanted it to be like a finished product when I submitted it. And I submit it. And then the next day, I have so much red tape on it. I was like, what do you mean? I've written police reports for a while now. I've never had one that was this scrutinized. And then I, yeah, well, it's because the pursuit policy is going to change after that pursuit. We're no longer allowed to change for DUIs.

3:09:03I was like, because of the pursuit I had. But yeah, it's too much liability for the police department. I was like, OK, whatever. I was like, I made my corrections, whatever they recommended on the police report just to make it sound more professional, cover their asses. And I didn't think anything of it. A month later, I get pulled into an office. And the crazy part is I was getting high fives, good jobs, the whole time up until this point. I could pull it into an office. And they're like, you remember that pursuit you had? I was like, the one that was within policy? Yeah, why? And they're like, yeah, well, the policy is change. And we're not going to write you up because of the policy change. But we kind of are. I was like, what are you saying? They're like, well, we scrub the tapes. We listen to the dispatch recordings. And you fell to call out vehicle tag, weather conditions, and traffic. I was like, yeah, because there was no airtime.

3:10:05I was like, have you gone back and looked at how much free airtime there was because I did. There was two seconds where someone could have spoke. And it takes longer than two seconds to key up. So why am I getting ridden up for this? They're like, well, it's just the fact that you didn't call out like you were supposed to. You violated the policy. And that's when I got mad. That's when it was personal to me. It was no longer about right or wrong. It was like a personal attack towards me. And so I just was like, I need to talk to an attorney. I need to have attorney person. I'm not doing this with you today. And you're like, OK, no, we'll get you a attorney. We'll talk about it then. And that's when I started getting my foot out the door. I started looking at other agencies. And I just started documenting. I started documenting every policy they violated, every person there had a policy they violated. And I wrote about it. When I left, I had a couple of pages that I turned in. And it's crazy. So for a Westminster city, when you leave,

3:11:07if they know you're leaving, they're going to open an internal investigation on you so you cannot leave. So you cannot leave until the internal investigation is complete. And I know they're going to listen to this. So I want them to know that the work around is you go get hired by another agency. And the day you quit Westminster city is the day you get hired by the new agency. And that is the only way you could leave that agency if you're on bad terms with them. And that's exactly what I did. When I left, I left them a couple of pages of things that they did wrong. You're not allowed to have your personal dog in a police vehicle. The chief was doing that. I wrote about it. I put timestamps on it. They have the paperwork. There was just so many things like that that I documented because I was sick of being targeted on policies that were selectively enforced. It doesn't make sense. I would do that. Yeah. And it's just like the good old boys club, you know, you're out here trying to make a change.

3:12:08And for me, it was I just wanted to have, I just wanted people to have more positive interactions. If you pull up my traffic stats, you're going to see I wrote so many warnings. But then I switched over to a smaller agency. Manchester Police Department. And that leadership was so much better. Give me questions on what's my... Yeah, yeah. No, I just want to... We've been going for like three hours, three, 15. I just want to kind of move it to... You know, you decided in the end, you know, the police department wasn't really for you, moved into the private sector. Can you talk to us a little bit about, you know, recovery and the book that you're working on? Yeah, I'll wrap it up. Yeah, police, I realized that, you know, it was a bad loop, you know, I was doing... I was just avoiding all the emotions and stuff. And I was just trying to escape, you know, it was that police or military mentality

3:13:08of you got to keep moving. So when I got... When I was at Manchester for two years, I decided to go to California to go be a cop out there. And it was just a form of escape. And I flew out there, I did their course where you get certified to be a cop and they're stay... It wasn't hard, it was fairly easy for me. I don't know, it was very... By textbooks, so you just remember the stuff and it was easy. So I did that and then I moved out there and started applying to every agency I could find. And it wasn't... It was my first one, San Marcos Police Department or Chula Vista, one of those two, that I applied to and I got all the way up until the polygraph and in the polygraph room, I experienced a panic attack for the first time. And I didn't have a label for it. I just knew that my heart hurt. It felt like my chest was tightening and I just didn't know what it was at the time. And the polygraphers, like, well,

3:14:10you're showing signs of deception and then I was being completely honest with others. Honestly, I'm stressed out, I don't want to be here. This is a small room. I can't sit still a lot of the times. At the time, I was already diagnosed with PTSD and he put in my paperwork that I was being deceptive and my integrity is up for discussion and it essentially blacklisted me from ever being a police officer ever again. So every agency that I applied to had to contact that agency and they pretty much just said, he's gonna be dishonest. Even though I was a cop a couple months ago. But then I decided to be a truck driver, did that for like two years and a lot of the same. You know, just avoiding emotions, not facing them. And mind you, I've been doing whatever the VA recommended since 2018. So it wasn't until like a year ago where I reached my breaking point. You know, I was drinking away too much. I was brewing my own alcohol. I got to the point where I was drinking like five gallons a day

3:15:11and I was just numbing. I was numbing hard and I knew it. I knew I was avoiding something. I just didn't know how to deal with it. I was asking the VA, what can I do to make me feel better? And like, oh, you got to try all these different medications. And I went up and down all the medication routes from 2018 to last year. We got to a point where there was just like, we've tried mostly all the medications, you know. Maybe it's time to try something else. It's like, well, I've been trying therapy but I go every two months, what benefit does that have? Like, yeah, that's just the way the VA schedules it. I was like, well, can I go more? And like, well, you can. You just got to go to the community. I was like, well, how come no one ever told me this? And it's like, well, you didn't ask. I was like, I am brilliant as state of mind to survive. How am I going to ask for more help? Yeah. But right after Christmas, I reached my breaking point. I was just drinking too, too forget. I wasn't drinking to have a good time.

3:16:13I was just numbing as hard as possible. And I just reached the point where I was like, I'd rather just fucking die, man. Like, I'm so sick of living like this. Like, I have a wife and two kids. I know I have a reason to live, but I don't feel it. And I ended up just asking my wife, it's like, what should I do? Like, I don't know where to go from here. And she's like, you go check yourself into a cypher. I was like, what good is that going to do for me? They can't help me. And I was like, you know what? I'll try it. Just a detox off of alcohol or be done with it. And I check myself in a Lebanon VA Medical Center. It is the worst experience for me. I am so miserable there. I get there. I'm immediately scanning doors. I'm looking at my exits. I already know how to get out. I have to take one key card scanning and then I am out the door. I can run from here. And I get there and they give me a room.

3:17:17And it is so terrifying to me. At this point, I was way bigger than what I am now. I was like 50, 60 pounds heavier. I was using a C-PAP to sleep. And I asked them, I was like, can I have a C-PAP? I needed to sleep and they're like, well, did you bring it with you? No, I'm barely surviving. I want to kill myself. Why would I bring a C-PAP? And then I go, we can assign you one. You just won't be able to have a roommate. I was like, okay, I guess I won't have a roommate. Okay, we'll get back to you. And I guess they forgot or whatever. So I was just in a room by myself without my C-PAP. And for those of you that have never been to the cyborg, they check in on you every 15 minutes, whether you're awake or asleep. And believe it or not, for someone who can't sleep and suffers from PTSD, you're checking in on me every 15 minutes. I'm gonna wake up every 15 minutes. So like, I was there for,

3:18:19I want to say it was like a five days total, but the first two days were okay, because I was still running off like the previous sleep I had. But the longer I was there, I was just getting so angry because I couldn't sleep. And I mask really well. Like I can pretend like it's stuff doesn't bother me for a really long time until I start losing sleep. And then I can't hold it as long. You know, I feel like that's just like a normal human trait. But the longer I'm there, I just start wanting to outburst on people outrage. And I'm telling them I was like, can I go home? Like I didn't even feel withdrawals from the alcohol. I just want to go home. I want to be back in where I feel safe. Like you guys are putting me in a box in here. Like I already know how I can leave. I just have to hurt you and then I'll be out of here. And obviously that is not what you tell someone in a cypher. Because they ask me to like, how would you get out of here? Well, I would be the shed of you, take your key card and then walk out.

3:19:19And if I wanted to leave, like just like just knowing that I could and they're like, well, yeah, you don't have to hurt us. We would just give you the key card. We don't want to be hurt. But like talking to them. And since I went on the day after Christmas, there was no doctors there. So there was no one there to discharge me. And I knew going into it that I could leave whenever I want if I went in there voluntarily. So I told them that I was like, I checked myself in. In Pennsylvania, it's called a 201 versus a 301. A 201 is voluntarily and 301 is court mandated, police mandated, whatever. So I, I, I, 201 myself, I, I skipped a couple of pieces, but real fast, I drove myself to the York VA, flying 112. My truck doesn't go any faster. I talked to the guy there.

3:20:20I was like, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I just don't want to be here anymore. What do you recommend? And then he's like, oh, you should go check yourself into a hospital. And that's how I ended up in Lebanon. I ended up at a local hospital. I sat there for a night and I was miserable there because I was stuck next to someone screaming the whole night so I didn't sleep there. And then they transferred me to the Lebanon VA. And while I was there, say, you know, not sleeping, trying to leave because, you know, at this point, I'd been there three days and it lined up to New Year's. And they're like, well, no doctor's going to come in. They're on call, but they're not going to come in to come check you out. I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, I found a terribly came year. I can leave whenever I want. You get it. It's only a 72 hour hold. I am way past that. And they just kept me there until finally a doctor came in on, I think it was right after New Year's. And I was like, can I go home, please? I am tired of being here. Like, well, you have to start a medical regimen.

3:21:21I was like, I've been taking whatever meds you guys prescribed. Can I just leave? I'm tired of being here. And finally, they're like, yeah, well, here's some resources. There's this program. It's here in Lebanon. You go, it's therapy, you know, it's intensive therapy. You go to a place and you live there and you go to classes. I was like, I'll try it sure. So I started taking their medication, whatever they prescribed, you know, blindly, not really knowing that I was numbing the emotions instead of actually feeling them. And I go to the, I take like a couple days to gather myself, let my wife know, you know, I'm a go do this 30 day thing where it's 30 days I live there and it's therapy essentially. Intensive therapy. I was like, at this point, I'll try anything. So I get there and it's a bad experience in the sense where it's a group, it's a bunch of veterans, it's a group thing and I'm opening up about some of my trauma and I'm getting graphic because I don't care.

3:22:24I've lived it in my mind long enough to where it doesn't bother me. And they're like, oh, wait, wait, wait, no graphic details. It's like, what do you mean no graphic details? It's like, I am trying to express my thoughts and how I feel. And they're like, well, you're going to trigger other people. I was like, isn't that what I'm here for? How am I supposed to get through the problems if I don't talk about it? Yeah, you're supposed to do that on your one-on-one therapies, etc. I was like, well, what do you want me to do? They're like, well, just talk about it without getting into graphic details. I was like, I don't think I can. I was like, well, just wait until you're one-on-one sessions. And that mentality was like, well, then I guess I'll just shut the fuck up and not say anything. Right, right. Yeah, so like, I was there for 10 days and I was just like, I'm sick of this place. I'm not learning anything. I am away from my wife and kids. I am doing more harm than good. I'm leaving. You guys are wasted by time. You guys aren't helping me the way I believe that should be helped. So I get out of there and while talking about being there,

3:23:26they talk about a therapy called RTSMS. It's essentially where they hook up a wire electrical current next to your brain and stimulates the fear factor part of your brain. And they explain to me, I was like, I'll try it. I got nothing to lose at this point. And at this point, I stopped drinking. I'm still fluttering. You know, I'm still trying to find something to numb. And they tell me, you can't change your medication while you're doing this treatment. I was like, okay, I was like, what else can I change? They're like, you have to keep the same caffeine intake, same, keep the same routine no matter what. And at this time, I picked up medical marijuana. And I was using that to suppress a little bit just to keep me from being completely unstable. But I did that treatment. It's impossible. There is no way that someone who is not as strong willed as people like us would make every appointment and maintain the level of rigidity

3:24:29this that you need for you to drink coffee at the same time, you to keep the same routine. Like, I was going to these appointments and I was breaking down on my way there. I was going through tears. It was not easy because it was like a three hour drive every day, Monday to Friday for 35 days. I didn't believe in it. I didn't think of changing anything. It was until day 33 that I finally saw a change. I started feeling emotions a little bit brighter. I could actually remember incidents before I couldn't picture it. I couldn't see the whole picture. And it was just a little bit more clear on day 33. It started to feel a little bit more. But I still had like a mental blocks where I remember bits and pieces. And that's when I started writing. Like the main reason I started writing was I wanted my kids to know the life I had. And it's fucked up to say it was essentially a suicide note at one point. I wanted them to understand why I took my own life,

3:25:30which I never did obviously. But that's what it was. And through writing it, I got to realize why I am the way I am. It wasn't by luck or chance that I am this messed up. But I did the TMS and then I just leaned way too hard into medical marijuana, where I was smoking way too much that it was a medical medical marijuana and do psychosis. I ended up in another psych ward. And it was just because I was hearing voices like I was I was picturing things. Yeah, like I was it got to a point where I was listening into the song and the song was repeating the lyrics. No one man should have all this power. And in my mind, I written you where I where I would do it, you know, in the middle of the woods away from everyone. So I wouldn't bother anyone. And subconsciously I was walking there. And I guess something clicked on my way there where it was like stop.

3:26:30What are you doing? And I also had these headphones on and it was playing that song. No one managed to have all this power. And then when I get to the spot where I wanted to end my life, I something stops me and I was like, fuck it, just go to your room, go to bed. Do it tomorrow. That mentality, I ran to my bedroom. I took off the headphones. I disconnected everything. Like I was that paranoid where I thought like people can hear me through the CPAP. And I told my wife about it. I was like, there's something wrong. I need to go check myself in. And I did. I ended up in another psych ward. And it was the same thing, you know, I am caged up again. I am not sleeping. CPAP all over again. And here I am not nice about it. I am lashing out on anyone who is looking in my direction. Just because I am so sick of being treated like, like I have a problem and no one's listening. This time I came prepared. I took out the drawstrings out of my sweatpants. I brought my CPAP. I was, I dressed for the occasion.

3:27:32Dressed for the job he wanted to have. But I get there and they don't give me my CPAP. Because if you have a CPAP, you have to have a room to yourself. And they didn't have the staff, they didn't have the room, or the staff in for that. And I was like, I brought my CPAP. Can I just have it to sleep? But like I sleep better with it. And they're like, no, we don't have the room's worry. If you have a CPAP, you got to be in a room by yourself. I was like, you know what, whatever. It is fucking midnight. I just want to go to sleep. So they take me to a room and I have a roommate in there. And obviously I have trust issues. You know, I can't really sleep with someone sleeping next to me that has mental health problems. But I'm awake every 15 minutes all over again. And in the morning I go up to the nurse and I'm like, can I please just get my CPAP in a room to myself? Like I struggle from PTSD anxiety and depression. Like this is making my situation worse. Like yeah, no, you got to wait till the doctor gets here. Blah blah blah. I was like, can I please just go outside and touch some grass?

3:28:34Like I am tired of being cooped up in here. And like yeah, that's scheduled for this time. I was like, well, you gave me a plan for it with the rules and regulations. And on the pamphlet says if it's in line with my religion, I am allowed to touch grass. So fucking, I'm religious now. I need to go touch grass. And they did not like that. They're like, well, now you're just trying to play the system. I was like, I'm going to sue you guys if you guys don't let me touch grass. And so like fine, I will talk to the doctor. And I did a lot of back and forth with them. They're like, oh, you got to go to your classes. I was like, fine, I go to my classes. I was like, can I go touch grass now? They're like, no, I was like, I'm going to touch grass. Whether you guys want me to or not. Like I am going to get violated. You guys keep talking to me this way. And they're like, well, now you're high risk. We're going to switch it to a high risk unit. I was like, can I go fucking touch grass? Please. And they finally let me. They let me out there for, I shit you not. 30 seconds. And I get out there. I sit on the grass and I'm finally feeling grounded again.

3:29:36You know, I'm feeling less violent. And they come back out there like, all right, time's up. You got to get to your class. I was like, I'm going to hurt you if you keep talking to me like this. I could leave. I could jump this fence right now because it was outside. And I was like, I could jump this fence and just leave. I'm here voluntarily. I could have left whenever the fuck I wanted. And they're like, well, you're getting people worked up around here. We're going to switch it to a high risk unit. And I get over here and it's the same thing. It's just a bunch of people like me who are just like mad at the world. People are staring at me. You should not be staring at me. I am way too mad and sleep deprived for your bullshit. And I get there and there's one guy who's trying to establish dominance by eyeing me up and down. So I look at him. I was like, what the fuck are you looking at me for? You want to kiss me or what? And he's so confused by the statement. And he's just like, what'd you say? I was like, you heard me. And he's like, I wasn't I wasn't ready for that. I thought you were going to try to fight me. I was like, I thought you were going to try to fight me. And then we just talked it out and like we got over it.

3:30:37But I was stuck there. Like I was trying to leave for another day. And the same thing I asked for a pamphlet. And then I just started crossing off all their rules and regulations and how they violated them. And the whole time I'm telling them I was like, can I go home? Like I am I am over the psychosis stuff. Like it was just that in the moment, medical marijuana induced. And they're like, no, you got to talk to a doctor. I was like, please, you're wrong. I know you're wrong. I am 201. I am here by I'm voluntarily here. Please just let me go. And I go, you need a safety plan. You need someone to come pick you up. I was like, my wife will pick me up. Here's her number. Just call her. And I'm like, well, we can't do that without you. You're consent. I was like, I am giving it to you. They're like, well, you need to fill out the paperwork. And finally, they let me call her. And I call my wife. I was like, have they reached out to you? She's like, no, no one's talked to me. You're the first person that's spoken to me. I was like, I asked them to call you like three different times. They're like, yeah, I tried calling, but I needed a code. I was like, yeah, I asked them for the code they haven't gave it to me.

3:31:40And my wife is frustrated at this point. She's like, how do I get you out of there? I was like, I don't know. I've been trying to get out of here since I got here. Yeah, geez. So this is making the situation worse. They're like forcing me to classes. They're still not letting me touch grass. You know what I mean? I hate to say it at word, but I bet they were getting paid. The hospital was getting paid more money to have that bed. You were in occupied. And that's why they kept you there. I don't disagree with you. I don't know the logistics behind it. But I just know it's wrong. Like I know. I agree. Yeah. Even just for my mental sanity, like I was so close to like actually hurting someone just because I couldn't control myself anymore just from the sleep depriveness. And I had a lot of self-control where like for whatever reason you look at what my notes are, I was way more controlled than what I am saying. Just because I was masking so hard. Like I was holding it back because I knew that I would stay there longer if I hurt someone.

3:32:42You know, they wouldn't let me leave. And then at the end of it, they finally let me leave. I talked to the patient advocacy guy. And I was like, where the fuck have you been? I've been trying to talk to you for like three days now. And he's like, oh, I was on vacation. It was my days off, etc. Well, I kind of need to do. I don't need you anymore, but here's a book filled of all the mistakes this place is making. And they finally let me go. And my wife was like, yeah, I don't think I'll ever do that to you again. I'm sorry. I thought that was our best route. I was like, no, I needed it. But that wasn't our best route. And then after that, I did it. I just a rabbit. Oh, I did a outpatient for six weeks where it was all for the most part, it was virtual. And you just learn my coping mechanisms. You get to listen to other people's stories. And then you just relate. And then through that, I realize, you know, not everyone is like not everyone is out to get you a thing. You know, there's other people hurting. Even though they weren't in the military, they understand.

3:33:43The pain we've been through and they related a lot of the times. And for me, it was a lot of the childhood trauma that really weighed on me. It wasn't too much of the military stuff. It was a lot of, like I could talk about the military stuff all day long. But the childhood trauma is a lot of the stuff I couldn't remember. Doing that therapy helped me remember a lot of it. But And the book is tentatively called the demons within, right? Yeah, it's definitely one of those things where it's all in your brain, you know, the get in bad, like however you want to picture it, you know, whatever religion you subscribe to. It's just been, I read what you have so far that you know, you sent me prior to this interview. And I'm looking forward and hoping that you get it out there when you're ready. Yeah, it's just one of those things where I don't want to put out an unfinished product, you know. I want to have the, yeah, take your time. Yeah, but now things are, things are looking up, you know, I get to be a stay-at-home dad,

3:34:47you know, I get to spend time with my wife. I have a kid on the way. It's not all bad. I know, I know it sounds like I've been through hell probably because I have been. Yeah, but I made it on the other side of it and things are looking better. Oh, that's terrific. I'm glad to hear it. Is there anything you want to shout out before we go? Do you want to tell people about like your Instagram page or anything else out there that you'd like to direct people to? If you guys want to, you guys can have my Instagram. It's just my name. It's Wardo 200 scores, my last name is Arduña. But I'm sure they'll find it if they want to find it. Yeah, we'll put a link down the description of the podcast. But Eduardo, thank you for sharing your story, man. As you said, I mean, you kind of been through hell. I know it's a lot to talk about, but I am glad, and I'm glad that other people are going to get to hear your story. Yeah, no, I appreciate your time. I mean, I believe in what you're doing, and I truly believe the only way you heal is by talking about it. Yeah, for sure, man. And there's a lot of other people out there who will hear this, and you know, it reminds them

3:35:50that they're not alone. I agree. So for everyone else, thank you for joining us on the show tonight, and we'll see you next week. See you, brother. Take care.