Weekly Review With Clay and Buck H2 - The Case for Flock Cameras

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Podcast on it, a little post show podcast. I don't think we've talked. Do you want, can we talk flock cameras here actually? I would like to do this because I think we're going to have some passionate views on it. And I think that there are very... This is, it's nice isn't it? When you have a discussion or debate about something where there are pros and cons and reasonable people can disagree. Women can have penises and should play or and men should be able to play against women in sports is not in fact a reasonable discussion to be having with people.

1:05And because it is not based in reason you can't make any progress in the debate of the discussion as Clay has found out with his still un... claimed... Unrequited. Unrequited and unclamed $10 million offer to have the high school... Did you even go to eighth grade? You naughty man. I've now taken it down to... I could, if I have to pick an eighth grade team that the eighth grade boys would beat the WMBA champions. Average WMBA team buck makes $7 million for the entire season. That's everybody on the team combined. I'm offering them $10 million to beat an eighth grade boys team and crickets. That's crazy. That is a debate though where you don't have reasonable stuff going on. You have feelings, dogma, orthodoxy. Flot cameras, I want to separate that. Flot cameras and data centers. There's totally reasonable stuff going on when people like, well, hear my concerns, hear what's going on.

2:11It feels like we're having an old school policy discussion where you weren't dealing with race communist lunatics who live in some alternate reality. So let's do this because Clay, not only is there a good faith back and forth over the flock cameras, people on the right conservatives disagree. I was surprised in fact to see that Governor Ron DeSantis, who we have said extremely, and I think well deserved, positive things about on this program many times over stretching back to COVID all the way to the way he has been governor of Florida to today. He is opposed to flock cameras in Florida and has signed something that they're going to be taking them off. I think it's a, I want to get the specifics right but like state highways or something they're going to be limiting it somehow. But here's where I come down on this clay and some people are going to get mad at me. So this is why it's probably why the long preamble about good faith debates and the family can disagree.

3:12And ever it could still be, I think that whenever we try to ban or severely restrict the use of an extremely useful technology, it always ends up just pushing it for a work around and it fails in some way. I see that certainly with the data centers debate, but to me that's more of a how we do it debate, not a do we do it debate data centers are happening. It's just you where do you want them? How do you, how do you want the regulations to be? There's no, there's no over won't be data centers. So flock cameras feels a little more like some states are leaning toward a lot of people are saying they just don't want these things out there. I understand the concerns, but to me the benefits outweigh the cons and I'll pass this to you now Clay, the benefits outweigh the cons and the problem is I see it is abuse and you just need to have strict rules of the road, pardon the expression, rules of the road for flock cameras.

4:15On public highways and everything else, the usage of that data. Because to me that's really the issue, but I got to tell you, I think I am, I might get lambasted lamb based it online for this one because people really do not like these flock cameras. So my take on them and I love that you had the preamble. So you're like, now I might be saying something controversial here, but remember I like you and you're all very kind. And so my take on it is similar to all technology, which is I want to see how the interplay of flock cameras is applied by the courts when it comes to the fourth amendment. And I know that everybody kind of sometimes we talk a lot about the first amendment and we certainly talk about a lot about the second amendment and then we just had a Supreme Court decision about hey the equal rights, equal protection clauses that were put in place after the Civil War and what's the implication and how are slaves incorporated compared to others who have come to our country.

5:23All these different things, I think a lot of times we forget to talk about the fourth and essentially the fourth deals with what is and is not considered to be an unreasonable search. And the analogy I always like to use here, Buck and I may have shared this on the show before is when I took crime law back in Vanderbilt law school in the day with a great criminal law professor. He's a legend at Vanderbilt law school. He taught generations of lawyers guy named Don Hall. Don Hall said so much of a fourth amendment law when it comes to how do you apply and determine what isn't is not a constitutional search has to do with trying to teach police officers what they can and can't do in very complex dynamics situations. And he would illustrate this for young lawyers this way. He would say at some point during your course, he would say everybody stand up and back away from your computer screens.

6:27Everybody in the whole classroom stand up, block away, walk away from your computer screens and then he would say how nervous are you that I'm going to walk around now and see what every single one of you is doing on your computer screen right now. In your opinion law students would that be a fair and constitutional or unreasonable and unconstitutional search and gets people nervous because it puts it actually into your own world. What are expectations and how are they being applied here and so buck I want to know what governments are doing with the data that they can get from flat cameras because I think a lot of people don't realize that these things that we have in our hands right now. You are often telling on yourself way more with your cell phone than you are with anything they can do from a flat camera in other words they'll do a search you know this I don't think a lot of people know this buck.

7:30If they know that a murder happened on X block at X time let's say it murder happened at 2 a.m. on a street corner in Washington DC. They can pull and it's not a very populated part of the city and they know there's not that many people they can pull every cell phone that was in that network that was peeing off that area station and they can narrow it automatically down to hey if your cell phone was on there's only 20 cell phones that were on in this area. Your every time you pull your phone out and turn it on giving the government a vast amount of information so I don't buy in buck to this idea that a lot of people have that the flat cameras are in some way creating a dynamic as it pertains to technology that does not already exist with your cell phones very often if that makes sense so so dissent is specifically has cited and. It's it's like he anticipated that people like you and me and we hadn't discussed this before seems like we're pretty aligned on on our view on this one.

8:34DeSantis referenced how this would have been used during covid against me so he's getting right into my wheelhouse and your real house right away yeah this would have been used to see if people were traveling who weren't supposed to and maybe would have used a lockdown. I think that that first of all that gets my attention and I think that that's valid I'm not I'm not dismissing this or saying I don't have a concern with that to but to me that again goes into this is the abuse of a technology not the day to day frontline use of that technology yeah there's something that is different about that. And so to me the guard rails are very important to have with this because remember this is this is about knowing where your car is I mean they're tracking your car via license plate in real time everywhere you go and that data is stored for a period of time some places play have limited for example how long that information is stored some places are making changes about this I think that that's all valid and good but to me a ban on flock cameras I

9:42mean I'll put it to you this way what I want to be the mayor of which really the county commissioners that kind of run Miami date but what I want to be the let's just say the the head honcho of Miami day county who signed off on something that let's a ban flock cameras within city limits and then I have to explain to some mother whose four year old was kidnapped and we had and we had a description of the car and the license plate why we weren't able to bring back her kid in an hour. Yeah I would think too I wouldn't want to be in that all because people are concerned about about you know government overreach I I'm concerned about government overreach but what are we really talking about here this is your this is the movement of your vehicle on public roads there's video cameras this is like saying I don't think we should have video cameras in public by the same thing video cameras are picking you up if you're in any populated area they're picking you up dozens of times. The day watching that's what I was going to go to secondarily which is the most important part I think you're already on camera everywhere all the time all the time.

10:51So and so this idea what when you hit on I think is important you know we had that shooting outside of the high school football game that I went to and nobody knows who did it the 16 year old who was murdered so far nobody has been able to be captured if you can have cameras that are constantly turned on in high crime. In high crime venues to me that's a no brainer and I would like to drive down violent crime everywhere and you and I are a little bit unique I think because of what we do I already presume that as soon as I leave my house there is someone paying attention to something that I'm doing all day long every day and that's actually have the not just the expectation of no privacy in public I have the same way I have the expectation of invasion of the public public at all times the moment that I leave my home I I look I just I think a lot of people are not aware what you just said buck every time you go to the grocery store you're on camera every time you go to Walmart you're on camera every time you go to the bank you're on camera I don't think most people realize how easily it is to track what you are doing I'm not committing any crimes and so I am not going to do it.

12:07And so I am not worried about this now I also understand the people out there who say okay Clay you saw what happened during covid I think the best argument against them is actually what Ron DeSantis governor a Florida said which is at some point in time they will track you over this if we have another pandemic. That's why I live in Tennessee. I don't think I was with Marsha Blackburn this morning. She's gonna be the next governor of Tennessee. I don't think she's gonna do that here. I think if you're in a blue state, I would be concerned about all of my freedoms in a blue state, and that's why I live in a red state. But flock, if I lived in New York City, flock cameras to me would be 760 third most important thing that I'm worried about in New York City right now with mom Donnie as mayor. It wouldn't even be in my top echelon because I think in general in New York City, they would be used to typically catch people who are committing violent crimes.

13:08And I think we need to catch more people committing violent crimes, not less. And I wanna give police the authority. That's where the fourth amendment comes in to make sure that the searches that are occurring are reasonable and not unreasonable. And that's why my start is I still wanna see how this is applied within the context of the overall court and fourth amendment rights. You were a high school debate nerd too, right? Didn't you work on the debate? No, I did not. I saw in was one of the best high school debaters in the country shout out. He just finished high school debate, top eight I think in the nation. But he did it obsessively. So I'm familiar with it through him. What was the style that he did? I did Lincoln Douglas. That was the big one when I was in high school in New York. Everyone was, you did Lincoln Douglas or extemp, extemp, extempraneous speaking. Yeah, he did. He did the one where you talk super fast. And I think it's policy. Policy. Yeah. Lincoln Douglas is the other. So he did policy. Lincoln Douglas, this reminds me of, this would be an excellent resolution for a high level.

14:09Good debate topic. Lincoln Douglas high school debate, you know, showdown. So because like I said, there really is, I understand when DeSantis said the COVID stuff, I was like, I could already envision the whole thing. They are tracking you. They are, how much are you driving? Why are you in your car? I get all that. So there's certainly things to be addressed with this. Mr. Clay. Yeah, I want to tell you about good ranchers. A lot of you heard earlier this week on Monday, Ben Spell, he was here in studio with us talking about the challenges of producing meat in America. And he said something staggering that I didn't know and I think a lot of you still have not gotten used to. 85% of the meat you buy is coming in from out of country. You don't know how it was produced. You don't know the quality. You don't really know what you are buying. And if you're in the United States and you think to yourself, you know what? I want to buy good American based products that are coming right off of American forms. That's exactly what good ranchers was designed to do.

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16:12to family and friends. Clay and Buck owning the airwaves. Welcome back in. Clay and Buck. My apologies. I was excited to jump in. Buck, you were just sharing with me during the commercial break. President Trump continues to rename different areas of the map and the latest is in the Middle East and we now have the straight of Trump instead of the straight of her moves. Saying that he is in complete control of everything and I do think that that is going to be interesting to see how all of it continues to play out. But what a it's kind of amazing. I didn't think people I expected that some places would rename the Gulf of America. I am surprised that several of the maps have now renamed the Lake Ontario as Lake America and that they've gone ahead and changed it on the map.

17:14I still think one of our caller suggestions of Lake Dolly would have been a masterstroke by Trump because I think if he had renamed the Lake after Dolly Parton, it would have been hard for people to fight back very aggressively against it. But the Lake of America now we have the straight of Trump. I straight of straight of Trump, I feel like they're not going to accept this in Tehran. I'm just gonna go ahead on a limb here and tell you the bullet. Like change all the maps. I don't think that's going to happen. I think they're going to keep calling it the straight of Hormuz. So we shall see. But his he hasn't lost a step but it comes to trolling. That is for sure. And we will get into more of that and more of everything here on the fantastic play and buck show and play. Why don't we get into the next read for buck which is going to be rapid radios.

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19:15And look, a lot of our law enforcement that have used it at the local and county level, you know, I think are using it to focus on criminal. I don't think it's their intent to do to do general surveillance. But I will tell you, if we had all this around the country when COVID happened, you absolutely would have saw those turned on people who were outside of lockdown orders in California that were, oh, you're going to, you didn't take your, your vacs. You can't go here. You can't track. I mean, you had a majority of Democrats that thought people that didn't take the MNRA COVID shot should be detained by law enforcement authorities, not allowed to go to shores like they're like really, really crazy stuff. Clay, that hits home. I get it. And I respect that. And he's right to raise it as an issue. But I also feel like you're looking at something and saying, you know, well, what about when the bad people do the bad things

20:17with it? Reminds me a little bit of why they're saying, Ben, you know, you ban guns or something. It's like, well, think of all the bad things that happen with people having firearms. Okay, but that doesn't mean all the good people shouldn't have guns. And in this case, taking that tool away from law enforcement, to your point also, they can track your phone. So they should just have the same stand, you know, they should have a similar standards. I have to look at what it is in different places for phone triangulation tracking and for tracking your car down. For much of this, the fact that he used COVID as an example is I think a good one. I think increasingly in a high tech world, the state you choose to call home is going to dictate a great deal when it comes to the personal freedoms that you have. And I trust red states. It's why I mean, I'm not just paying lip service to this. Every company that I own a substantial stake in or that I own

21:19is based in Tennessee, Florida or Texas. All of my personal assets are in red states. All of my banking companies are based in red states right now. I just after COVID, I don't trust blue states. And I certainly don't trust blue cities inside of blue states. And but you mentioned guns. I flagged this because I thought it was super interesting. You know, we don't hear anything about guns anymore. Really, when it comes to trying to restrict guns, everything else, there's actually an opinion piece yesterday in the New York Times. And the headline is something has changed about the US and guns. And I was flagging this because I thought, hey, we should mention this on air because I do think it's significant. We're going to hit an all time record low in murders this year. All time record low, never in any of the lives of people listening right now, has there been a lower murder rate?

22:20Never has there been more guns on the street than are on the street right now. Remember for a long time, the argument on the left was that guns kill people, right? They would put not focus on the individuals. And suddenly the rhetoric has changed. Buck, here is something that I flagged. And I'm going to be honest with you, my wife is in this group between 2021 and 2024, 11.2 million Americans bought a gun for the first time. These numbers kind of floored me, Buck. I don't know if you've heard these. Half of those buyers were women. That's a record scratch. My wife is in this group. A fifth were black and another fifth were Hispanic. And the overall reason why people have own guns is now for personal protection. So it used to be the average gun owner said, I have a gun because for hunting reasons,

23:21things like that. Now it overwhelmed me. That's what the media said. People actually had guns as a defense against tyranny. But yes, people had them for hunting too. But the data according to this and the data could be wrong is that the up until the late 90s, people bought guns primarily for hunting or for sport. This is what the article says in 2023. However, the most recent year for which statistics are available more than 70% of gun owners said the major reason for their owning a gun was protection. So I do think that that represents a substantial growth. And I think a lot of people out there are surprised. Half of all gun buyers now are women. Buck, I know a lot of women who are carrying guns in their purses, in their personal body on a regular basis. That was not the case 20 years ago in a substantial way. I don't think. I will tell you, I think that people have seen for a while now, certainly the BLM riots

24:24come to mind, but they've seen the reality of relying on law enforcement for your personal protection, which is cops do a great job. Overwhelmingly, I'm not putting, I'm not attacking law enforcement at all. You know, we're big law enforcement supporters here. But even a cop will tell you, even your local sheriff will tell you that they can't be ever at all times. And ultimately your safety is in your hands. And with the proliferation, I think, clay of videos showing violent assault incidents all over social media, notably on X. It used to be that the media have this thing of, we're going to not show a lot of this, and we're going to not talk about it because we don't want people to get the wrong idea about who's doing it. That was a thing for a long time. Now you can just see a lot of the assaults and all the things that happen, including that there's video, I think it's body camera footage, although there's also a handheld cell phone footage of a terrible incident that just happened, it was a murder, just happened in Times Square.

25:24And I was actually going through New York at that time, visiting my family and not far from where the stabbing happened. A day like Times Square, some truly lunatic, I mean, just a devious maniac with two knives. And I would note also, for anyone who thinks that a knife is not, this woman was small, pudgy, and weak looking. And she was able to stab one guy in the gut, get away from him, and within about 20 seconds, she stabbed a female, a beautiful young woman, just celebrated two years of marriage, has a, I think an eight-month-old baby at home, stabbed her to death, no reason, just right up to her knives and stabbed her to death. If somebody gets a clear shot on you with a kitchen knife, it's pretty much game over. Very likely you're going to, if they get you in a, in a vital place, you're going to die. And so the cops then killed this, killed the woman who did the murder, because she ran

26:27at them with knives. And then sure enough, you had the, oh, but couldn't the cop, they tried to taser first, didn't work. So even with that, they're going, do they really have to shoot her? Yes. We did not have to wait and see if another person was killed by this vicious lunatic in broad daylight in Times Square, in the largest city in America, Clay, I'd talk about all this one, because it's an incident that people should be aware of, but also Times Square has a gun free zone. Yeah. Explicitly a gun free zone, meaning that no person there, unless they are willing to risk years in prison, the only people allowed to be in Times Square with a firearm or police. I, you know, if, I'm going to tell you this right now, if this sort of thing happens in Miami, I know that I am likely. I'm going to carry my brother is carrying most of my friends care. Like, it's a different situation. We see some maniac running around with a knife that maniacs getting dropped by one of us.

27:31It is a different world now. People understand because they can see the truth of protecting themselves and the reality. Yeah, law enforcement can show up when they've already, when people have already been murdered, there's blood everywhere. And maybe they finish off the shooter or the stabber. Couple of things. The guy, I believe it was an Idaho who started shooting when the guy was at the fast food restaurant. Yeah. And was able to hopefully make that a much less successful attack. I would add in the wake of the Lindsey Clancy discussion for all the women out there saying she's stressed her hormones are out of whack. Should the woman in Times Square who was walking around with a knife who stabbed that young mom to death should she be charged with first degree murder and go away for the rest of her life, even though she might be crazy. Yes. My answer is yes. Again, are you being consistent in the way that you're applying the law? She's dead, but you would have, you would have charged her with first degree murder. Yeah. The cops shot. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Sorry.

28:32Yeah. I'm glad the cops shot her. By the way, if you guys were with the guy, people were saying they, they objected to that. Oh, I remember. I saw it. And I sit here and I go, what did, but this is, there's like something, the, I don't know if the elevator doesn't go to the top floor with a lot of these people online. I don't know if they don't, they just can't process this. A person with a knife who is running at you who refuses commands to stop can easily kill you. Yes. And this person had just killed somebody. Completely innocent person. Let me add this one more detail, by the way, on the guns. I bet the percentage of Jewish people with guns has skyrocketed in the last two and a half years because the article was written from the perspective. My father looks like the last guy who'd ever want a gun. This isn't the New York Times, by the way. He's Jewish and immigrant, a politically liberal city dweller. He didn't grow up around guns. He needed, believed America needed stricter gun control laws, but during BLM, he suddenly

29:37said, I got to get myself a gun. And in the wake of what happened on October 7th, there's a lot of Jewish moms out there. I guarantee you and dads who never know when your synagogue might be attacked. We know specifically people who have made this choice themselves that you have trained. Yes. I would say that joke among my neighbors is that buck is trained more people than the IDF in the last couple of years. Like I've been taking a lot of Jewish friends in South Florida out for their first time at the range. That's something that I can certainly handle the instruction on. I'm actually an NRA pistol instructor. So I can take people out there or NRA certified. So I can take people out there and have, give them a kind of 101 pistol day. I find it one very gratifying and they certainly do too. A lot of them have gone out and they now conceal carry. They have firearms in the home. It just makes people one taken to their own hands, their safety and security. And I think two just raises their awareness as well that the stuff happens.

30:41Nobody would have thought, Clay, I'm two degrees removed from, meaning I know someone who knew the woman who worked for Blackstone, which is a very well known private equity firm. She was a young executive there of women. And she was shot by that maniac who just ran into the lobby. I forget when this was maybe a year ago. Do you remember this? It was right on park Avenue in Manhattan, lower, you know, kind of down in the 50s, ran into the lobby and just started shooting people and actually shot the cop. There was an off duty cop who was there that the guy shot first and then he just went around that he had no nobody else can help you if there's not a cop there. And somebody has a gun or a knife in New York. That's the reality. You're on your own. And by the way, they disarm you. That's the point about Clay, the gun free zone. There are still shootings in Times Square, just not of law-abiding citizens defending themselves. Well done, New York, well done, mom, donnie, you know, they disarmed the law abiding.

31:43And just think about that. That mom is walking in Times Square in the middle part of the day and gets stabbed to death. I guarantee you the data is going to come out, Buck. What are the odds that the woman who's now dead, who did that stabbing? That is the killer. What are the odds that's the first time she's ever committed a violent criminal offense? Oh, I bet zero. Very, very. I mean, that she's not, yeah, has a long history of shouldn't have been on the street. I think it's very unlikely. Sure enough. To honor the 25th anniversary of 9-11, the Tunnel of the Towers Foundation has planned the most comprehensive commemoration in its history from May through September to the Foundation, steal across America tour is transporting a powerful symbol of reverence and resilience to communities across the country and authentic steel beam from the World Trade Center. If you're in Boston, in the Boston area this week, you can see it in person while it's on display in honor of the 343 members of the New York City Fire Department who made

32:43the ultimate sacrifice on 9-11. The foundation is delivering 343 mortgage free homes to heroes and their families while continuing their efforts to eradicate veteran homelessness. The 9-11 institutes educational curriculum reaching classrooms nationwide while firsthand accounts are being shared through the 9-11 speakers bureau and the foundations mobile exhibit traveling to communities across America throughout this historic year. Foundation is holding hundreds of runs, walks, climbs, golf outings, including the iconic tower climb and 5K events in New York City. Donate $11 a month to tunnel the towers and amplify your impact with a car or land donation. Go to t2t.org. That's t2t.org. Welcome back in, play and buck. We appreciate all of you hanging out with us. Guess what? Do you have a mortgage that is fine?

33:45You got a home with a ton of value that's built up. Do you have credit card debt? Do you have money that you would like to take out of that home if you do? Perfect 10 mortgage is the solution. These guys agree with us on everything. It's why they are on the program. They share your values. Unlike a lot of frankly, woke mortgage companies out there, you can choose a lot of different companies. What about perfect 10 mortgage? Perfect one zero mortgage. They will get you hooked up. And that's perfect one zero mortgage. Why perfect 10? You give them 10 minutes and in 10 days or less, they can close that mortgage. They can wipe out all your credit card debt, your personal debt and they can hook you up. Perfect one zero mortgage.com. We got a bunch of calls. Jeff in North Carolina. Let's start with you, Jeff. What you got for us? Guys, I'm wondering if this thing plays out to where she's found guilty by a reason of insanity. It does just a few short months, mental hospitals.

34:46She gets out. If she's approached by whoever for say a book bill or a movie deal or something like that, does her ex husband have a right to sue her to stop that or either to stop any monetary gain that she might be doing? She has, yeah, thanks for the call. She has a first amendment right to be able to publish her story and be paid for it. In theory, the children could file a wrongful death claim against their mother, their states, but then you, their minor. So effectively, I presume the father would be the beneficiary there, but he's divorced from her and in some way he is suing his spouse. The answer is yes. Would he do it? I don't know. We got into this sum buck with O.J. Simpson for those of you who remember when he was found libel civilly, she doesn't have any kind of substantial assets to my knowledge. In theory, O.J. I believe had to sell like the Heisman trophy.

35:47He had to sell a lot of his personal belongings, but you couldn't touch his pension from the NFL. Usually pensions are protected. Certain states have so called, you know, like home is a castle sort of protections where no matter what your home is worth. For instance, in Florida, it is unsalable from a creditor perspective. There's a lot of different ways that that can play out. The end result is the dollars are not hugely substantial. I do think you raise an interesting question with the go fund me. A reportedly she has gotten around a million dollars. I don't know what her lawyer situation is, how she's paying. That's an interesting question. Allie in South Dakota. You got 30 seconds. Hey, guys, I love your soul. I got to get a photo with Clay at Mount Rushmore, on July 3rd and it was the highlight of my summer. I just want to go back to AOC really quick. I am genuinely rooting for her to get the Democratic nomination because in AOC debate against JD Vance or Marko Rubio, the absolute must see TV.

36:51I agree with Allie there. Glad she has great taste. I had a phenomenal time at Mount Rushmore, met a lot of our listeners there.