What JP Miller Told Officers About Mica's Mental Health

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1:01This is Hidden Tillers Live with Tony Brusky and Robin Drake. Let's continue on in the weeks before her death, Micah Miller called 911 several times regarding GPS trackers on her car and stolen belongings 14 times. Meanwhile, JP filed a mental health pickup order telling police she was bipolar and offer medications. JP really proactively told police that Micah was bipolar, schizophrenic, and having an episode to explain away her cries for help. Now, it's not to say that there could have been actual mental health problems going on there. That could have existed, but when you look at the environment, she was angry. I wonder what was exacerbating that. How common is it for a narcissist or a sociopath, abusers like this to intentionally terrorize a victim in private,

2:03only to use that trauma, that trauma response when they're out there. Hey, everybody, this isn't right or they're reacting to label them as crazy or unstable to authorities or friends or family or anybody looking in to make sure that nobody truly sees what's going on. And disturbingly, how successful are they typically in telling that tale? I think there's a lot of this. It's probably under reported, but this, you know, it would be I was watching this, of course, thinking, boy, I'd love to look at all her medical records and what they documented in the hospital. You know, because you wonder bipolar disorder is a pretty serious diagnosis. And one of the videos that apparently he had recorded, she did sound psychotic in what she was saying, but can trauma drive a person into a state like this when it's ongoing trauma they feel trapped? I think there's evidence that that can happen and it may look psychotic and may look like bipolar disorder,

3:08but it can certainly be, you know, severe anxiety, depression, feeling trapped, hyper vigilance, and you know, for her to not submit to him meant that she was refusing to follow God or to love God. And so that's quite a double bind to be in and could that exacerbate maybe somebody who had existing vulnerabilities? And I think she had vulnerabilities. And so there could have been, you know, an underlying mood disorder, bipolar condition, and the stress of this marriage triggered it and managed to manifest. Shivon, could it also because what's another interesting facet of this, not just her medical history, mental health history, which again we've been covering so much of and learning so much about because of Lindsey Clancy tragically, but he was really telling her so much because like part of what I picked up also was every time he's having an interaction with someone including the congregation,

4:12he's always focused on his actions. It's like a bad 911 call when the perpetrator calls it in. He can always tell because they're not worried about the victim, they're worried about what their role was and what they were doing, so they're creating their own alibi. He did that a lot throughout this. But part of that narrative, he kept preaching everyone else. He was also preaching her. So how can that also affect her own mental health? If he's telling her she's bipolar and she's suggestible and he's the pastor, so I have to listen to him. I mean, he's telling her what she has to submit to sexually. Was it five times a day? This was the creepiest shit I've ever heard. I'm saying, yeah. Could that also play into her? Can someone basically become bipolar or at least exasperated if someone continually tells you you are? Because he was doing that as well. I would call it more a chronic PTSD response. That is where we've been talking a lot about mental hospitals and how good of a job do these programs do.

5:16I think if she was in a really good program where they spent enough time assessing her and really got into what is your lifestyle like? What are these symptoms like? How is this all correlated? That that could have been picked up. What? There's really more of a trauma response going on here than bipolar. But it's really hard to know and it's hard to know what the quality of care that she got was, unfortunately. It'd be really interesting to see when he goes to trial because again, I know he's not being charged with a death or anything. But I'll be interesting to see what kind of searches they do on his computers and Google searches and things like that. It'd be really interesting because of all these things that it looks like he was doing intentionally. Did he research them? Was he thinking about them? I mean, I'd be very curious on all these different aspects because he seemed to be doing things pretty intuitively that would take that normal human beings wouldn't think of or even think of how to doing yet. He seemed to be pretty fluid with it. Yeah, somebody mentioned gaslighting off the chart. Yeah, exactly. Manipulating.

6:16Another good definition. There's a person who's doing this level of gaslighting in bullshit. Does he actually, did he want her back truly or did he want to destroy her? What was the ultimate goal at the end of the day exactly what happened? I'm going to make life so hellish for her with the GPS trackers on the car posting the, the new photos of her online tracking her in a real time telling everybody she's got this and that and oh my gosh, it's just such a sad horrible story is the ultimate goal. I'm going to drive her so mad she's going to go to the woods and do this or is it I'm going to get to her so much that she's only going to turn back to me because I provide such a lovely home to live with in such a great partnership that she clearly will come back. I mean, is it a little above? Do you think he even knows what the hell the goal is at the end of the day? I've been, he's just flailing in his, his, his, the, the, the, the, look at me and here's what I want.

7:17Me, me, me, me, me, but never really quite understanding where the next, you know, Lily Patties jumping to is. Yeah, I think it can go both ways. Good, good, good question. There's obviously a need for power and control and entitlement he wanted to own her. I mean, she had his name tattooed on her body early on. Yeah, she belonged to him in her wedding vows. She said something like I wrote it down 100% of what I am I give to you. And then in his, his sermons were a wife must respect and honor. And so I think he liked, you know, apparently for quite some time, he succeeded in feeling like he owned her. And I think he kind of got a high from that. And so he, I'm just guessing, but I think he had a strong attachment to her and wanted her back. But if he couldn't make it work as it was not working near the end, then I think it really was about I'm just going to go after her and try to do what I can to destroy.

8:25Yeah, I wrote down their wedding vow when they said it. She said she will give 100% to him in all areas, even to make his dreams come true. His response, I won't try to best that. So, so Shavon say he's unchecked and this continues, he continues. He's on a, he's an arc. He's an arc. He's got a life arc on this. Where does it go if he's unchecked? Because all I can, and I'm asking is this guy like this, then eventually say, you know what? This whole one wife thing just really is ensued me. I need more. I mean, does someone like this escalate into trying to get into FLDS or something like that? Because I mean, in other words, would he ever be satiated in any way? I think, you know, we see a pattern, right? And future behavior we can guess is based on past behavior. He really wants to be a preacher. He loves being in front of people. Apparently, even after what is it? Solid rock, the solid rock.

9:31Yeah, solid rock. Sort of went defonked. He started a new one again, and he's got another wife. But we know he's so sexually compulsive. He's not going to be faithful to her. And this weird behavior is going to keep coming out. So my guess is he's just going to keep repeating repeating repeating. He likes having a woman under his thumb. And yeah, that's my best guess. This is just pure conjecture, but the new wife Susie, I believe Susie Skinner, I think. I mean, take, I mean, take Micah out of the equation to a certain extent. I mean, just just observing John Paul's behavior in general. I mean, who the hell is looking at this man going, I got to get me some of him. Like he seems like quite the catch. I mean, it's just just the, the, the life arc. I mean, just, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't understand what on Earth is going through anyone's mind,

10:34a rational thinking human beings mind to be like, this is my partner. I should stay with him. And maybe that's the answer. It's not a rational thought. It's not rational. Look at Sam Bateman. Sam Bateman got all those, got all those wives. I know. I know. I mean, that was under a, and again, I can understand Bateman even more because it's more of a cult dynamic. And these people don't really know a world outside of, you know, that closed off community. These are people who live in the rest of the world. And, and see the rest of the world. This is, it's not like Susie hasn't had another life. I mean, her, you know, quadriplegic husband dies in the pool under weird circumstances. I mean, I don't know. The whole damn thing is weird. And you're in your pastor steals your wife. Everybody looks at this like, oh, it's love. I mean, or that's what they expect people to think. I mean, again, is it really Shivan when you look at like someone like Susie and people that are still going to what's left of his church? Are these people who are just, they're way too close to the sun. They can't see it. I mean, what, I mean, at some point, are you just kind of kind of go, well, you know, the ones who got out, got out. These are the ones who, they're, they're too injured mentally to ever really see the light here.

11:50And unless someone intervenes, they're going to be another victim of his or they're just going to find the next charismatic, a cook that comes along. Yeah, those are the, the women that I think, you know, when you look at who could, you make an impact here with some kind of therapy. Those are the women that I think you could work with. It's like because my guess is there's something in their past that has really impaired their judgment when it comes to what is love, what, what is a healthy relationship. They don't know. They don't know. And they're going to, you know, and being with a man like this, certainly, which we saw with Micah, you start to lose your mind after a while. You become anxious, depressed, hyper vigilant. You get trauma symptoms. His sexual behavior alone would cause some unhealthy responses in a partner. And so those are the folks I would like to sit down with and really explore what is the attraction here and what is in your background that would make you feel like you're worthy of someone like this because there's something there.

12:56You know, there are a course of control laws in certain states and hopefully that expands further as time goes on. A lot of people are looking at this doc. There's some insinuation in there of like, well, it's weird where the gun landed and we can give that a little bit. But at the end of the day, this, and I've examined this case for years, it truly, I mean, it does not look like he actually killed her, like bang, bang with the gun or anything like that. By all accounts, I mean, she's on to, I mean, it's pretty well documented. It looks like she offed herself. I think that's an established fact in this case. It still doesn't make it any better. It's how she got there, though. I mean, not physically. She appears to have driven herself. She's on camera. But mentally, how, how she got there. We've seen cases where a teen has suggested to another teen who wanted to end their life, go ahead and do it. They've been charged, you know, I believe it's an accessory to the murder or something of that nature.

13:59When you don't necessarily have exactly that, you don't necessarily have, I mean, as far as we know in the record, him saying, yeah, go do this to yourself. But just the torturous behavior that leads someone there of like, I have no choice. I'm better off dead, which seems to be kind of what she was thinking at the moment. How do we, is that something we can ever truly go after because it seems this sort of torturous behavior that people do to each other. I mean, this is what we see on camera. This is what's documented. But I think a lot of us throughout our lives could look at people we've known or known and go, yeah, they've done that to people or they've been a victim of that. And it's just, it seems to be how life works for a lot of people. Should there be, should that be something that is looked at closer? Should there be penalties for really, really horrible behavior that leads people down some of these paths? I sure vote, I sure vote for that. How can we, and I know that there are lots of gray areas with how do you define coercive control? I mean, I call it a longstanding pattern of deceit, entitlement, exploitation, lack of empathy.

15:06And certainly this case fit all of those things. You've got the monitoring devices, the razor blades and the tires, the threats, the 50 phone calls in a day, trying to harass her. We need better ways to intervene in that because that kind of thing, I think, for a vulnerable person who's been told she's not mentally well and to what degree was that this treatment that she was getting or, you know, was there an underlying mental health condition, we can't be sure. But we need to do a better job of, you know, I think police officers, they're not social workers. And, and can we embed more social worker? I mean, this is just my random idea. I don't know if anybody would think it was possible. But who, when there's this kind of complaint going on, can a social worker who's affiliated with the police department go out and spend time with the victim and really try to way through what is the evidence here? What are your options and then get the law enforcement system to intervene sooner and to do more?

16:22And, you know, if he had spent a bit of time in jail for some of this behavior, it might have put a stop to it. And that's a big problem here because Micah made over a dozen 911 calls begging for help. Yes. But police frequently, I mean, they're operating by the law here. I'm not trying to fault the police here. No. But police frequently treated the stolen property and the complaints and that as a civil matter because they were married. It's almost like if they weren't married, if they were strangers and he was during this tour, there's more they could have done. But because she said I do, it was almost a free ticket to, you know, this insanity and to abuse essentially. I mean, how often do is this a factor in these cases where because they're married, there's less the law can do about it? I think traditionally it's been a factor and it probably varies from place to place, from police department to police department, from city to county.

17:22How tuned in are they to this stuff? And certainly they need more training. But even if you train police officers well, I think most of them are well meaning when they go out on these cases, but they're limited by what the law says they can do. And I still think you need a mental health person to come out and spend time with the person who's making the reports of the stocking. We've got to take stocking behavior seriously, that kind of monitoring because it can lead to a lethal outcome. And the most dangerous time in a coercive controlling relationship like this, which we can just say an abusive relationship, is when the victim is trying to leave. And that's when it escalates and that's when it can get crazy and we need to do a better job of protecting victims. Yeah, they definitely weren't doing that when she put in for the protective order and there was a lay on that, I believe. And so Tony, what's the case? I kind of slipped in my mind because we've been so focused on this one. We covered it the other day where the death of Tupac.

18:27Yeah, so that charge was he didn't pull the trigger, but since he's in the car, he's able to be charged with murder. What was the statute he was actually charged under that? Because I wonder if there's any parallel you could do, the receipt is part of it, but not part of it. That's part of a conspiracy charge. I mean, this wouldn't be technically conspiracy because it's totally different. I know it is, but I'm so with you because there should be some sort of culpability for this mental torture. Which is essentially what the federal charge is, it seems to be reaching as far as they're going to be. As far as they can reach because for whatever reason, it doesn't appear that any local authorities have exercised their reach of what they can do to him. So the fact that it's talking is been talking. And talking, yeah, I mean, essentially it's a stocking charge. It's just to kind of. It can be bigger. Yeah, I mean, that's that's where it's at right now. Not to say it couldn't get bigger, but a lot of times charges start somewhere and then kind of escalate from there in terms of investigation.

19:28I'm sure they're looking at all. I'd be very curious. We're talking earlier about the digital footprint. What exactly is he Google? Yeah, you know, like what is his end goal? Is it like drive someone to end themselves or what is he searching for and then following that playbook? So it'll be interesting on that one too is not just on the digital pattern, but also the purchase pattern. So he bought the tracking devices put on her car. What's the likelihood that's the only car he's ever tracked? You know, slim the nil. Right. So I think they're going to really discover a lot about the pattern in his life. And so you have one stocking charge you might wind up getting more. I think you'd find probably a lot of people. That's my that's my congestion control control control. Does does one of the big, I guess one ups that the JP knew that he had on everybody. And a lot of people exercise this whether they're a pastor or not is the Jesus card. The fact that he was a pastor. John Paul is his name.

20:28JP. You know, I see it in business a lot, especially here in the south where I live, you'll see crucifixes like worked into like signs, like Timmy's plumbing, and it's a crucifix for the tea or some shit like that. Those are usually the businesses I stay away from. Because I feel like when you're you're overtly using the cross as part of your marketing scheme, it seems to kind of go against most of what I think, you know, Jesus probably taught it. It wasn't like use my use what I died on as part of your marketing scheme to get more money. Like this doesn't seem like it's part of the Bible. Tony has a negative confirmation bias. I do have a negative confirmation bias because every person in every business I've ever worked with that does that. Has been slimy as shit and has really been some of the worst human beings I've ever worked with. And I'm sure there's probably lovely ones out there. But that's my negative confirmation bias. But it feels like people like that really use that to an extreme and they get a pass.

21:28They get a pass from so many people who are just like, well, he's a pastor. It's kind of cross. It's just like don't question that because they're afraid what that might reflect on on them. If they question the pastor, I'm thinking JP use that to advantage a lot here. Oh, a lot. Oh, a lot. It's so manipulative. And the issue about is church a safe place? Are you safe? You know, on so many levels with somebody who's broadcasting their Christianity. And I think there are. So I know we have a lot of viewers who are Christians. I get emails from folks. And I think there are healthy ways to be a Christian. And it can be a wonderful source of comfort for people. I don't want to knock it. People. People, it works very well for them. But there are toxic ways and a toxic person can take and pervert something.

22:28And to something that's scary and abusive. You know, one of the things I'm always thinking about when I talk with my clients and they're very religious is their faith helping them? Or is their faith diminishing them? In building shame within them? Is it building blind obedience? Is it causing problems? Is it causing anxiety and depression? And then they're in this bind because they start not being able to feel their feelings because that means they're disobeying God. If they acknowledge that maybe the pastor has done some bad things. But I can't criticize the pastor. I can't criticize the plumber with the bumper stickers all over his car. But there's a huge manipulative factor in that. If you're afraid to do something because of fear, that's what you should get away from. Yes. It's pretty simple.

23:28It's recognizing the signs and having a fear of speaking about it. It's like being on an airplane and seeing someone with a knife. But I don't want to disturb anybody. I want to disturb the stewardess or the captain or say, hey, this is over here. It's just going to be a fine flight. I'm not going to say anything because everybody's on the plane. We're all trying to get where we're going. The guy with the knife over here is. It's like saying, I'm not going to, I don't like American Airlines. Why? Because of 9-11. 9-11 hijackers were not employees of American Airlines. They hijacked the airplanes. And that's the thing. It's being able to recognize the people who are trying to hijack something that is good, that has a purpose, that does good things. And using it for their own twisted reasons. We need to be able to identify that sort of shit. And not just go along with it because we want to enjoy the flight. Well, sometimes some people don't. And they need to be called out for it. Your thoughts in the comments section on Substack in YouTube as we continue to break down.

24:31Death of a pastor's wife on Netflix right now. The story of John Paul Miller and Micah Miller. That's why Trade Pro's trust Fiber cement party backer board to keep tile firmly in place, resist cracking, and help block moisture. Chosen in over 40 million kitchens and bathrooms, party backer board, what the best build on. Shop now at participating Home Depot, Lowe's, and floor into core stores. For more information, visit JamesHearty.com slash HeartyBacker.