Would you rather four day Tests, or a third innings? | Wagon Wheel

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2:02There's a fire inside you. You can't ignore. You've got competition to outrun, momentum to build on, and your own high standards to meet. Stop now. Not a chance. At Capella University, we help you catch what you're chasing, because you've always had the drive. Now go earn the degree. Capella University, what can't you do? Visit Capella.edu to learn more. Welcome, Wagon Wheel. The show where we answer your questions on crickets. If you're awesome. If you don't, no one answers them. Sometimes you might ask them and they still not, right? Not be answered. That's just the way they sing. I'm Jared Kimber. I run this little show. And the best way to ask questions are if you're watching it online, you can obviously leave Superchats in. And if not, the other way of doing it is to support us on Patreon, good areas, podcasts. And you can contact support us there

3:05and then ask a couple of questions a week if you want to like quite a few people have this week, actually looking at it. Including AK, who says, has any five-year period in Test Cricky, has been he also ingrates per year's once is the back half of the night. Sachin Lara McGraw warned me really. With warned Donald Pollock was in right there. Greatest five years ever, if the test cricket talent was. Fantastic question. I'm trying to think, where would you put, what would the next one be? 2015 to 2020 say, what would that be? It's boomerous sneak into that, I suppose it doesn't. See, they've Ashwin, today, which are Vera Smith Williamson, Root, Anderson, Stain misses out on that. Yeah, so I suppose it just depends where you kind of go all the time, greats. But that's a pretty decent collection as well.

4:05I'm sure of missing names in there too. I mean, Robota plays in that. Oh no, maybe he doesn't. 15, 20. We play a little bit in that era too. Have I missed out anyone else? Yeah, so maybe it's not as remarkable, okay, when you look at it from that perspective, but I don't know, it seems pretty cool. I can't think of any others in history. They just wouldn't have been enough cricketers. I suppose peak is their tricky one there because you would have had what? Greenwich, Richards, Lloyd, Gavaskar, Mean Dad, Kapoldev, both of them, Immron Khan, Richard Hadley, all pretty close to peaking at similar times I would have thought as well. Was that 78 to 83? So it seems like there's a couple of periods. Maybe the Sachin Lama, McGraw, Warren Murley one is just they're all top five. So maybe that's the difference or close to the top five. James says, does the continued selection

5:06of Lava Shane showed the Bailey really doesn't rate McSweeney? I've not told to anyone over there. I never got the feeling that they didn't rate McSweeney. I think it was more to do with the fact that they know what Lava Shane can do, James. And he has done it before. I think Bailey probably respects senior professionals more than he does young up and coming players. But if you actually ask me why this has happened, I would say that it's because they thought Marnas had come back. And so they're like, well, we have to get him back in the side. And then the second thing might be that they think of McSweeney more as a further down the order, especially after what happened last time. Yeah, I mean, anyone who's picked to be number three at the moment, we're probably gonna fail, right? James says, who is the third best Aussie quick behind Lily and McGraw? Do I think Lily is the second best Australian quick? I don't think I'd be as, I don't think I'd be pardoned upon

6:08as quick to say that, James, as you have been with Alan Davidson and Pat Cummins out there. I mean, I'd have to go deeper. I don't know, yeah, it's because I haven't started that book yet. But I'd have to go a bit deeper to have a look at it. I think Lily is incredibly important to the game of cricket by mechanically, professionally. The skills that he passed on to other bowlers in multiple countries, right? So I think he's really, really important to cricket. In a way that maybe Pat Cummins will never be. Not to mention that I think Lily was also really important to Australia culturally. Again, in a way that I don't, this is not like Cummins or Davidson's fault, but I don't see how either of them could be in their periods of time. I think if you just go pound for pound though, I'm not sure I just get, I pick these two as just straight shot one and two. What did Alan Davidson average? 20, 21? Is low, isn't it? It's really low. Ali says, can we make more sport? Can we make sports about teams rather than investment vehicles?

7:10Is that just romanticism for an amateur era? Really important to know, Ali, that during the amateur era, I mean, the amateur era is a complete shame. Anyone who tries to sell you the amateur era is just talking shit to you, really, Ali. WG Grace was the most famous amateur of all time and he was paid more than the professionals. He had kickbacks on his kickbacks, made a great living off of cricket. And they charged more for games that he was in. There was really no amateur era as such from that perspective. And what amateur era really does is it allows for people of means to play sport, while other people have to go out and get jobs. So there's no, I have no romanticism for the amateur era. I think it kept a lot of average leap and even below that talented rich people in national cricket teams and first class cricket teams

8:11that didn't deserve to be there. The investment vehicles is, I actually think if anything, maybe the business world was a little bit slow on sport, you look at what sport has become, probably in the last 75 years, it's World War II. And I think it probably took the business people a little bit longer to work it out than it did. I think once the Americans worked out cable TV and then with everything that has come after that, the internet, and everything else, it just kind of makes sense that sport is going to be that side of things. But there are issues with it being an investment vehicle, there are issues with it being an amateur, there are issues with it being run by governments, there are issues with it being run by private individuals, there's issues with it being run as a not-for-profit, there's issues that have been run for profit. Sport is outside of politics, perhaps one of the few things that does sort of cross over boundaries effortlessly all the time.

9:13And so any part of whatever's happening in society or elsewhere is always going to come into class or be assisted by or however you want to look at by sport. These things are just, they're so melded together, there's not much you can do about it. That's why when people say you need to take the public politics out of sport, you can't. Sport is a partly political act and has always been a partly political act, right? And it was almost framed around that. In the ancient times, you would support your generals or your best war heroes. And now we support our captains and coaches and our best athletes. To what this says, what made Dennis Lee so effective a bowling coach? And this may sound blasphemous, is he overrated a test bowler? Sorry. Yeah, I don't, how do we suddenly become the Dennis Lee show? I actually just, I stopped there to Google

10:14whether he passed away and I missed it. What made him such an effective bowling coach? And this may sound, yeah, is he overrated a test bowl? Is he overrated with a very interesting? But I feel there's something missing. I think if you put in the World Series cricket period, Joana, which is probably, actually, I'd have to have a look at it because I haven't. I forgot World Series cricket. I would assume he, I think a lot of his, I know what we do say, he's reputation is sort of bound up and that. So let's have a look here. It's another 67 wickets. So what is that getting past 400 at that point? Off the top of my head. Although he averaged just 26 in those, but they were so, we had been quite highly scoring series. In my car, an average is 20. Most of the other guys, and this is, Garnas 24, Croftes 28, Holdings 23, Any Robertses 24.

11:16Yeah, I think it goes back to the previous answer. I do think there is an element of that. But you have to know the full story of Denis Leigh to understand why he's so important. I've had this argument with New Zealanders before. Richard Hadley, when he wasn't sure what to do, we'd think what would Denis Leigh do, right? Denis Leigh became the first truly professional baller who understood physiotherapy, fitness, biomechanics, skills and everything else. And he did that because cricket Australia left him in his own. I actually have another video coming out about this very, very soon. And yeah, so he did all of these different things. And so he probably took bowling to a completely different level. He is almost like the world's coach. So when you say why was he so effective as a bowling coach, kind of that, right? It's kind of the, he had the ability before anyone else really did this. And fast bowling coaching wasn't really that big of a thing. You run in your bowl fast or you kept the seam up, like it was a pretty simple art. Coming into his era.

12:17And I think he was inspired by people like West Hall. I'm not sure who the other balls were, but certainly. If you look at early Denis Leigh, there's a bit of West Hall in him. I kind of see it as Truman Hall. And then it explodes after those three guys, right? And there is a definite, the difference between Truman and West Hall who both genius bowlers is, they didn't get injured at a really young age and have to rebuild themselves. So Denis Leigh becomes such a great coach because the first person he had to coach was himself after his natural athleticism was broke his body. But I do think with these bowling record, I think it's kind of fair to have those conversations. I think I do think he was a great baller, but I can understand a people who just look at averages, maybe look at it a little bit differently. But I think if you look at the overall package, I understand also why so many people speak for him the way they do. And I'm talking specifically bowlers of his era.

13:18PJ says, what are some examples of batting and bowling techniques that change the most from international debut to retirement? Has your man laugh at the craziest technique when he played in the under 19 blockup? I'm watching Shane Williams debut, I think so we're considering how he's actually and runner ended. I mean, it's pretty common for bowlers, PJ, I'd say what? Kim R. Roach, after the accident, is maybe one of the most obvious ones. But they tell me that Len Hutton who lost about an inch of reach of his arm in the war didn't change his batting all that much. You certainly have, I mean Steve War was completely different when he started to win. He ended. So those are some of the ones that instantly come to mind. But yeah, injury plays a part, like Sean Pollock's a different bowler. I don't know if his technique is massively different, but it's certainly a different bowler from the beginning to the end. So I think there's a lot of fast bowls you probably go through that. I think with worn as well, although you're right, I do think by the time he even played a test, he was certainly starting or within the first 10, 15 test,

14:19he was refining it. But D.R.S coming in, I think actually changes the way that Shane Womboles, I mean, Bryce McGain, after a warning passed away, did a video about that. And we talked about that a little bit. I do think the back half of his career is very different bowls than he is in the first half. Try to think. I mean, there's probably a lot of guys who are attacking baddies when they're young who become defensive or more solid baddies when they're old. I think that's a fairly standard trope of batting as well. So how long, if ever, till we see Keeper standing up to fast bowls at T20 cricket, I could see this developing in a baseball star communication for cutters and belts, especially through the middle overs to stop baddies when you're out. So there's a really important thing to be noted here. There is a reason why we don't see as much information passed between bowls and keepers as you do between pitches and baddies in baseball. And the reason is that there was a non-strike there. It's a top of the gloves as well. But I remember an older player sort of suggesting it

15:22and all the younger players going, non-strike is just watch for that all the time now. They see anything that happens more than once. Even if they don't use it that game, they'll use it for other games. It's not worth it. I still think teams do it a little bit, but you'll never get it like baseball in that way. Will we see Keepers come up to fast bowls and T20 cricket? Yes. Having said that one day cricket has not become as coming down the wicket, right? As Tess cricket did. There is a reason why the keepers have come up and Tess cricket. It's because of the sort of Dara Mitchell, Joe Rue, Barbara Asam guys who were batting one, two meters out of their crease. And it's because of that sort of more, I don't know, I'll leave Pope kind of guys who were taking a step and a half as the ball was coming down. We're not really seeing that as much in limited overs. We did. And then we did actually see would keepers start to come up with the stump a little bit more back in the 90s at times. I don't know if we really, you know,

16:22the ball doesn't do as much. And people like to use their crease and the width of the pitch a bit more in limited overs cricket at the moment. But if they start to use the crease a lot, I could see Keepers coming up there. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. Hurts says, how teified, anglicized, not sure of the adjective. Are you after moving to the UK in all these years? In other words, how different good areas, conboxes will be, say, if you were operating from down under all these years. I don't drink tea. I don't really know much. It wasn't until the whole Meghan Markle thing that I actually worked out, which one of the royals was which, which one of the boys? And I still don't, I wouldn't know any of the cousins or anything. I know a bit about politics. So I suppose I learned a little bit about the UK through that. I wouldn't say that the big change for me has been being anglicized. I would say the big change for me is that up until 2003, I'd never been out of the country

17:26by, I can't remember what it was, but not long after joining CrickMfo, I traveled so much that I had to end my passport really because my passport wasn't, I'm standing just struggling to get the stamps on and I cut with countries had complained to me about it. So I would say it's probably more of that. I mean, you could argue none of this happens anyway, Hertz. If I don't leave Australia, yeah, I wouldn't have got those opportunities if I worked for CrickMfo in Australia and I wouldn't have got the job in CrickMfo in Australia. Maybe I would have got British job if I'd stuck around, but I don't think I would have. I think there was, the fact that I was, as random as I was, you know, my career was and the way that people looked at me early on, the fact that I was accepted in the English press box probably played a big part in getting some of the opportunities considering the kind of wacky stuff I was doing, right? I think that makes it. So I probably have to move to England

18:28to make any of this happen or, you know, at least spend, I think there was a possibility at one stage when I worked for CrickMfo and also with the ABC of doing six months at Australia, six months in England. That's the most I would have been able to do if I'd stay back in Australia. So I don't know how different I would be. Australia meat is really weird and insular. I think it does a lot of things right, but like Australia had a version of Netflix, Australia had a version of, was it the players Tribune or whatever it was, players choice, I can't remember even which ones which anymore. Australia had a version of the athletic, you know, I think I probably eventually get sucked in to like one of those two kind of last things. If I had stayed in and so my career would have developed differently. I think my advantage is that I'm Australian who understands English media, lots of different, you know, cricket cultures,

19:29media's, so multiple countries at once, Americans bought media as well. So it allows me to instead of just going, oh, that let's be like the athletic, well, I don't want to be like the athletic, I want to be better than the athletic. And I think this is what the athletic hasn't done, or this is what the Lofton network hasn't done, or you know, this is what code sports haven't done, or whatever that may be. And then try and put things together in that way. And that comes from working in cricket as much as it, and I still would have been coming to England quite a bit even if I was a cricket rider. So I'm not sure I wouldn't have picked those things up. So to answer your question, I have no idea. Crick-a-boards actually make watching their games almost impossible. I spend almost as much time trying to find where I can view it as I do actually following the action. That is why I use NordVPN. They let me find all the cricket I want to watch while protecting me from the nasty side of the internet. Nord will free your cricket matches, grab your exclusive NordVPN deal by going to NordVPN, Fordslash Good Air is to get a huge discount

20:32of your NordVPN plan, plus four additional months on top. It's completely risk-free with Nord's 30-day moneyback guarantee. Watch every match with NordVPN. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Haley Bailey. Okay, I need to tell you about something. I just got YouTube Premium. It's got tons of awesome features like offline downloads so I can download my favorite videos before I travel and watch them whenever I don't have Wi-Fi. Because we all know airplane Wi-Fi is the worst. I get to add free, I get back room play, and there's like a ton more in there. You should try it. If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Try it now for two months free at youtube.com slash premium. Trial eligibility varies, terms apply, cancel anytime. That's a mouthful. Yes, it's Angus Maximus. This partner has one pound of a pound of hot. She'll see cooked to water Angus speed. It's more expensive than a quarter pounder. The panel is closed. And for only $5.99, even regular juice can afford it.

21:32Like that guy. Give me that big old burger. Yeah. The whole Angus Maximus, only $5.99 is whole senior. A bill for a limited time of participating restaurants, tax on included, not valid for use within a combo or in combination with any other offer or discount. Mubs says who would win a test plate in true English condition between an old time Mitchell's 11 and an old time Muhammad's 11 and old time Mitchell's 11 and an old time Muhammad's 11. I'll go to Muhammad's. Because I think they match the monsoon, right? Trying to think of their badding. I think they match the monsoon. Yeah, I'll go to Muhammad's. But I don't know if I, it's a fantastically good question. I have no idea if I had to answer it. Because I'd have to go, I'd have to build the teams of my head. And that would take a while. Like, are there a live Mitchell's? I'm sure there are a live Mitchell's. Hayden says, you have a time machine and you can travel back to cover any series giving it the full combo street mate. But get on the pick one. What are you picking?

22:35That's a really fantastic question. I suppose body line is quite high up. What else would I have wanted to cover? World two is cricket. Neuriginal one with Kerry Packer. I think would have been fascinating. 2001 Australia, I suppose. 1901, was it 1901? And then you know two ashes is another interesting one. If I had to pick one, I think it's body line. I just think it's really important to what cricket has become. Yeah, I think it's body line. Sam says, do you think that scored numbers for international tournament should be bigger? I know there's a financial consideration of what would be your ideal score size numbers. So I've done a piece on this. I think the number I have rested on at the moment is 18. I'm pretty happy 18. Test cricket, I've got teams often take more than, you know, like 15 players. So I don't really understand. And it would get rid of that sort of player. I mean, it's so weird actually, if you think of ICC events now,

23:37because you have this situation where someone gets injured and the replacements in the squad don't always get the gig because someone else comes in. And the reason being is, you don't have a replacement for the type of player who's just got injured. So you end up with the biggest squad anyway? I don't know, it just, just have a bigger squad. I know a lot of people say with this it'll affect the smaller teams. And look it might. But it also, there are situations where I think it could help the smaller teams. When they have overlaps at the same position, they also can't use them, right? And they, they're overlaps are more important than anyone else's. I would have thought if you happen to be like, Scotland used to be where you had two international quality left arm fingerspinners. For however random that Scotland might have ended up with them. And they can't really take hams in the squad because the chances are then, you know, they did the exact right team to play against like a bunch of round handers on a wicket that spins. But you also want him to play when that, if that situation happens, right? Just don't see why they wouldn't have done that.

24:41James said, would you rather, four day tests or a third innings? With three innings all round has become more important as do spinners and areas where we're seeing short tests on green tops. Our third innings. With three innings already. Well, four day tests are probably, I can't, I can't imagine we'll see three innings. Four days tests make a lot of sense from a scheduling perspective. Far more than five day tests do. We can fit more over in the day. Obviously there's other issues with getting those over. We've done a podcast about that recently. With me, Robin and Baram. But yeah, I can't say the three innings just would get spiraling. And what if you do have a flat pitch? I don't really see the point of that. I think test cricket has fundamentally changed. And I think that the four of the four day tests as it currently stands makes the most sense as long as there is still the ability for the extra overs. I don't think it would be, you'd be able to do it on four, 90 over days

25:44or 82 over days or whatever we have. PJ says, if has ever been me and Craig Bratho were opening it back into that, what brand of paint would you choose to watch, or I would try instead? You know, I always enjoyed watching Craig Bratho, right? There was some, I was lucky enough to be tipped off when he was quite young coming through by a friend. This was a definite international cricket are coming. And I remember going back and I can't remember the agency he was with, but he was with one of the big sports agencies. And they put like clips online of him. And there were like all these clips from him available. So very early on, I saw him bat. And he was exactly the same then as he was when he played international cricket. So I had no problem. I see you be mead. Yeah, I don't know if I have as strong opinions on him, but no, I'm okay. I mean, some bad guys are gonna bat defensively. Right. I think the ones that probably frustrate me more are not that offensive bad is. It's probably the ones where,

26:44it's probably ones where there's something aesthetic about their batting that doesn't flow with me. I probably find that more uncomfortable than like a defensive player. And it says last week's, like, well, you mentioned how kits could be better, especially gloves and boxes. To add on that, what are the very obvious gaps in logistics to the cricket ecosystem that you would have expected to be filled by now, but still lag by the time. So cricket grows, small auxiliary industries around it will also grow at what do you see coming up? Yeah, so I think the boxes are being fixed. I should do something on this, but I haven't had a chance to really go into it. But I believe we're getting closer to boxes. Gloves certainly seem like something that we could come up with a better alternative. I also wonder, like, you know what cricket is to be like an offensing costume or maybe, you know, something like that. But is there something sort of more, like what a combat soldier might wear or like what a baseball catcher might wear that kind of moves and makes more sense that gives players more flexibility and movement?

27:44Like, you watch young kids play and you realize how much when they first put the kid on, it actually does change your physicality and everything. So I wonder if there's stuff to be done there. Helmets, when you're playing spin and helmets when you're feeling close, do not seem to me to be designed for purpose. Because it's hard to look up. So that's another sort of easy one. I still don't think we could keep it, should wear helmets. I think was it Peter McLaughlin, who wore the hockey mask, or the baseball mask, whatever his one was, makes more sense to me than the helmet. Even wiki keeping gloves, I wonder if there's, wiki keeping gloves to me, there's something missing with them. I've never been quite, be able to, there's something with the rubber on them that I understand that you want the extra, you want the ball to stick. But I think you want more of a, I think you need more flexibility maybe is what I'm talking about there. Wiki keeping gloves get really stiff.

28:47Those are ones I can think of anyway. And I'll say, how does wobble ball, wobble seam effect length? Steve said in a week more interview, the balls can hit the stump from back of the length. So, yeah, I think there are more ballers now. So traditionally, you would, you're not trying to hit the stumps. And, okay, let's, I can't do the full story, I know, but I try to do the full story. When cricket first started, we're bowling under arm and we're bowling directly at stumps every time, right? That basically sticks around for a long time, partly because bad is why I hit the ball to the legs on purpose. Then you get Victor Trumpa come in and that's kind of the first time we hear stories about people bowling outside of stumps on purpose, right? At that stage, from that period, so from Trumpa through to the wobble ball, more or less we were trying to nick players off. It's a little bit different with seam in Asia, but even then got lots of slips in Asia, right? It's very rare to not, even with a new ball, not have, not have slips in place. So you're still trying to do that.

29:48At that, at that stage, bowling is very different. And then the period that Steve Smith comes into is sort of at the back end of the West Indies inspired. So they swing bowling was fuller and then everyone bowled a back of a length delivery, a little bit more. And so when Steve Smith came in, it would have been not just outside of stump, but slightly above off stump, sort of glamourically ambros type liner legs, right? Close enough to off stump, that you always feel uncomfortable. No, not a position that you can really drive and hoping that it can jack back. If it keeps a little bit low, you still get an LBW chance. Bowlers have moved that up a little bit, but lots of different weird things have happened to bowling because of the wobble ball and also because of limited overs cricket and everything else. Angles, so before people would bowl close to stumps, down they bow wider. It used to be that you never wanted your arm to go let pass the perpendicular to it, Scott Bowler and Justin Bieber does. We now have a lot of bowlers who do things like that. We have a lot more bowlers who bowl with a lower arm

30:51at times as well. And so there are probably more mixture of lengths being bold than anything else. It'd be interesting, I would assume that the wobble ball specifically has to be bowl fuller in order to hit the stumps. So it probably feels like team, so we did this a while back. It might have been on talk sport or on good areas where I explained this. It used to be that four to six meters was considered a full length. Six to eight was considered a good length, right? That's no longer the case. It is, those two, they've actually moved a little bit and I would say a good length now is probably five to seven, right? And so full is even fuller than that, right? The reason I'm bringing this up is to Steve Smith, it probably feels like people are still bowling back of a length, but actually that one meter and maybe the best video I've explained this is the one on your Shant Sharma. That one meter that Shant Sharma changes his length, changes everything. And so what Steve Smith probably thinks

31:52is back of a length now is actually one meter fuller than it would have been when he started his career. I've tried to pack a lot into that head, so hopefully it makes some sense. Heard says, have you watched Promo out right, bowling, incredible leg breaks and he notes, I'm a mechanics favorite, women's balls to swing into Ruddner, just wondering if the same makes right arm legs been more natural to women, although I haven't seen many women or spinners, just a whole load of left arm twickers. So I'll answer the second one first. One of the reasons we see so many left arm fingerspinners in women's cricket is because they are shorter and they can bowl that almost can't re-emprogue, I don't know, Darren Lehman, Sanoshia Sariya, like ball, and it's very hard to get up and under them. It's why we see them specifically at the death a lot of times, right? It makes sense and it sort of skids in and it's hard for you to sort of launch it. The balls are slightly smaller, but a lot of the left arm fingerspinners that you see,

32:54they're probably not like traditional ripping the ball finger spin, it's probably more, almost like cutting the ball finger spin. Depending on the players, Sophia Kostinovici is not one of those, and there's a couple of others, but there's a lot that sort of just, I'm almost a Rolex, I think it's the wrong way of doing it, but it's more like they are. So they're almost bowling finger spin at times with their wrist more than the sort of more traditional finger way of making it spin. wrist spin is really tough to be able to master when you get taller, so it does make some sense that the women would have out of adage because they don't have the gross spurts that men do. So one of the big problems with young legspinners in men's cricket has always been the gross spur because you go from like five foot two, where you just have this beautiful loop up and at a nice pace, and then you're like six foot tall and it all goes to shit. Completely ruined my bowling for like two years, and I never, it was like a long time later when I discovered that I couldn't bowl the way that I did when I was a kid, and actually just needed to rebuild my bowling completely

33:55that I made more sense. So I can understand why there are advantages to wrist spin, but because there's so many fingerspinners around and they have an advantage of, well, maybe they're two way each other out. I've seen a little bit of primal, right? One thing I would say is I'm still learning about biomechanics and women's legspin. I think it's Sarah Glenn was the one that sort of, I was gonna say taught me, but not like she told me about it, but she was the one where I was like, biomechanics don't make any sense, but as you say before, the in swing compared to out swing also comes from biomechanics and women's biomechanics are slightly different because their bodies are slightly different. So I don't know if the biomechanics that I would take for someone like, right, would actually make sense, and so it's probably, I'm probably gonna need another five or six legs of spinners before I kind of get there. Ali says, is it too late to save and make international cricket the primary cricket? Yes. If it's not too late, when will it be too late? It's too late. I made a big documentary around 2015. All right. I would argue it was maybe already too late then,

34:58but that was a chance to at least frame the conversation. The ICC saw the film as a kind of attack on them, whereas the other way to see it is, this is our last chance to actually be relevant, and they didn't do that. So maybe it was just in 2008 anyway, but I do think there was a period between 2008 and 2016 where there are lots of things that could have been done. Before the IPL becomes what it is now and what it was probably gonna become, you could have had some big ball we grown up conversations and as men tend to do, they didn't do any of that. We should have had a proper league for Test Cricket before we did and we still don't have a proper league for it. We should have phased off international T20s a little bit and made that the franchise format. I mean, bylactials more than anything. And with one day is either get rid of the bylactials of one day's or make it a proper league so that you have to qualify for the World Cup

35:59by playing them and there's a reason for them to exist. Give the IPL a two month window, a three month window, not just give them a de facto window because you haven't done anything because you're too afraid to give them a window. They could have also been conversations about how teams were compensated for international players playing in the IPL or any of the major leagues really. There were lots of different conversations that could have been had around that time. And they were almost pretty pathetic if we're being honest. The people involved either, I've said this before, there's elements of corruption, there's elements of incompetence, there's elements of just the wrong people who are in charge at the wrong time. Indy says, is a fastball a court and bold one of the most difficult skill executions in the sport? Fantastic question, Indy, yes. I think all court and bold are at 55%.

37:03So it's the lowest catch percentage on the field is court and bold. I don't even know what second it might be short leg. But yeah, it's so hard to catch the ball when you're bowling. And the numbers I've seen, that's the 55% includes the spinners. So I can only imagine what it does. I would say that it's probably let maybe 35% to 40% of court and bolds from seeing bowling are taken. The problem is that it's the only fielding position where your head is not still. So you can feel like I've fielded it all the weird positions, short leg and silly point and leg slip. They're a galley, they're all dangerous and difficult in different ways. You know, there are unpredictable parts of fielding in all those positions, but you keep your head still. With bowling, your head isn't still and you're moving and it probably is dropping off on an angle at best.

38:05Your body is also weighted towards one side, not the other. And I think if you have a look at it, I don't know if depth perception is the right term, but like velocity perception, maybe he is the best one. Have a look at me times, fast bowlers, think the ball is coming back at them really fast and they panic and they kind of clutch at it and they drop it and we all go, oh, that was easy. I don't think that's a mistake. I do think though, Indy, and I've been saying this for a very long time, it's so rare for me to go to a cricket ground and see bowlers practicing court and bold. There's a very cool way of doing it. My coach did it for me years ago and it really does help you and then you get into a pattern and after a while, you only need to take one or two. But it's incredible to me how often I will see players warm up for the T20 games and one day games and they don't even take one or two. But basically what you do is you bowl your ball through the crease and the coach sits there with a tennis ball and a tennis racket and wax a ball back at you in different speeds. You can do that over a period of time

39:06so it becomes part of your natural sort of ability to get ready and then you just need a couple of freshness. I never dropped a catch of my own bowling until I was like 16. Drop one and drop left three in a row. I completely lost the ability to take a catch off my own bowling. My coaches have done that and ever since, my rate's gone back up right now. It's a lot easier for me because I'm a spinner but I always felt it was more about the pattern. I think if I got a court in bowl now, I'd be more likely to drop it because I think that pattern is dropped off again. Drone this says, we do rank Dirk Underwood among all time spinners. Reading about him feels like he was the type of baller who had the potential to end up 400-tests but his persona and politics got in the way. Was it his master or the cutter that made him so effective on rain pictures? So I think Dirk Randall is very much one of those last cricketers who was gifted by the uncovered wickets. So I don't know. I would have assumed a little bit like Colin Miller that he was probably a combination of an offspinner

40:06and an offcutter baller. I think Jim Leaker might have been another one of those as well and those kinds of ballers specifically, I think were very, very much. Do I say Dirk Randall, Dirk Underwood? So many Dirk's. I think I said Dirk Underwood. I think those kinds of ballers are just absolutely fantastic in that era but I think what you have to do is you would have to go through, says I'm looking now, 297 wickets at 25. I mean, it's a ridiculous record. You would have to go through how many times he took the wickets when there wasn't any assistance and there was any assistance because I think Jim Leaker both have these great records but there's actually a lot of old English vingerspinners with those kinds of records. And going back, you know, you know, Lion, the goat nickname comes from him going past two trombles, right? So Strainwickets used to be like that as well. Shalom, no shalom. South African wickets,

41:07if I remember with South Africa correctly, I could be wrong here. Someone might need to grow me. They had matting pictures and they went from matting to uncovered before they went to covered. And that was the period they had lots of fingerspinners as well. I've gotten there, did they have a hue? Said who you feel? So there's a lot of Western fingerspinners with really, really good bowling averages. And I do think the uncovered wickets play a big part. So you'd have to go through with someone like him and just make sure that that wasn't all of it. I think he was probably better than that. And I think because he was so quick, you know, him and Lakeup, headly verity is probably another one. I actually think there was a bit of a combo element to them. I would be so fascinating to see these kind of bowl. It's a real shame that spin in England and, you know, and I suppose mostly in England or the New Zealand might play a part here as well, I sort of disappeared because the kind of spinners they made were more suited

42:09for modern Asian pictures, right? Then certainly then Australia ever made. I may have a look at some of the records of some of the Australian spinners have gone over there. They really struggle because those that they don't create the kind of spinners that are needed for those environments, maybe outside of Bill O'Reilly, right? So I think that would be absolutely fantastic. But yes, I do think that he's, I'm very, very underrated. And I've talked about him and Lakeup quite a bit before. And I think part of the reason they're underrated is there isn't another bowl after him. So once he's last test, yeah, his last test is 82. So we didn't get enough to see of him. We didn't get to see him enough outside of the covered wicked era. Now, if you look at his record, and this just tells you how much things have changed, by the way, he played 42 tests in England and took 145 records at 24. He did very well in New Zealand, and I don't know if those were uncovered or not. He did very well against an early Sri Lanka team,

43:11so we can kind of bat that away a little bit. And did very well in India. But in Australia and the West Indies, where I'm pretty sure he had covered Wickets to Bowl on. He averaged 31 and 62 across 18 test matches in total. All right. Also, Pakistan. I think would have been covered with Wickets, but I'm not sure, but there's not a lot of rain in Pakistan. He averaged 38. So we know he would have been great in India. He was actually great in India. We know he was great in England. How much does that translate with him? I think that's a tricky one. Fantastic player, though. Mob says, who's the best combination of cricket and journalists as opposed to just a commentator who records? I'm thinking Beno to Bishop. Richie Beno. Yeah. I mean, if Ian Bishop has a full career, then I think you can really compare the two. But it doesn't. And Richie Beno's career is really, really good. Not just with Bat and Ball, but also Capitzi.

44:12Also making the game more interesting when he played it. And then Ian Bishop would have to have another 20 years of career to catch out with Beno. He could surpass him. I don't know if it would be the voice of cricket, because I don't think that's how cricket works anymore. But Richie Beno did so much work. And he did it in TV and a written, I don't think he did any radio, or if he did it was early radio as well. Whereas Bishop is pretty much TV, although podcasts and everything else might, it's not just TV anymore, is it? Sam says, is your spinner that comes to mind that is was particularly adept at cleaning up the tire? I have one spinner in mind, and I'm pretty sure I did this video a long time ago. He was the best cleaner up of tires of any non-seem bowler by a distance. I think I had him down as if you look at his record

45:14versus the top order compared to the lower order. He was okay versus the top order, but he wasn't really a massive plus and against the lower order, he was so good that you could almost say he should play in any game to mop up the tire. There's a reason why he didn't play a lot of games. It should shoot me kill. Should shoot me kill is the one that I've looked at before. The two best players I've ever seen against the tire, show back to Aaron Shoot Me Kill. We don't surprise anyone. What does the tire not like pace and risk fit? Ian says, inspired by a recent video I watched, is there my correlation between hockey goalkeeping skills and cricket catching? So Ian's talking about Rob Barron's video here where Rob Barron obviously, if you haven't seen it, it's really fascinating where we got Robby to put in for his motions of catching a ball. So Rob was, I almost, I don't know, he'd have to explain it, but not far away from an Olympic level hockey goalkeeper.

46:19And not very good at cricket, self-described, and I've seen him play like he can hold a bat, but yeah, he's not a cricketer, right? But if you're watching him in that video, he's no doubt that he has an above average catching. Now, is that hockey goalkeeping or was he already really good at that Hanoi coordination that makes sense of moving his hands where he needs to be, which is very different than batting or tennis or anything else? Or is there something else going on? So I don't know, but it is fascinating, but there's no doubt that Rob Barron can catch and was a hockey goalkeeper. Of those two things I can confirm. All right, we'll have a quick break here. And when we come back from the break, we will be talking about whatever you want me to. Brian Lara used pot plants to work on his placement. John Wright glued his glove to his back, Sachin Tendulka, dug up practice pitches. Tattenda Tybo cut the top off his back. Claire Taylor used a hockey grip. Stice Miss was from tennis.

47:20Dean Jones would call Phantom Runs and Victor Trumpa turned the nets into a war zone to survive. The best batters in the world do whatever they have to to make runs. We have told their stories in our new book, The Art of Batting. And I get to add free videos, background play, and so much more. YouTube Premium is like YouTube got some extra gains. Try YouTube Premium for two months free at youtube.com slash premium. Trial eligibility varies, terms apply, cancel anytime. Yes, it's Angus Maximus. This partner has one pound of a pound of hot. She'll see cooked to water, Angus speed. It's more fish than a quarter pounder. The battle is closed. And for only $5.99 even regular juice can afford it. Like that guy. Give me that big old burger.

48:21Yeah. The whole Angus Maximus only $5.99 is cold senior. A bill for a limited time of participating restaurants. Tax not included, not valid for use within a combo or in combination with any other offer or discount. All right, welcome back. Anna says, first time you're coded in human history, there are more, there are more 65 year olds than five year olds. So it's great for test cricket, but not good for the future. For sports. Oh my God, okay, that's a fun fact that I didn't know. All right, here's my question. Is it just that people grew up with test cricket? And that is why it appeals to them more than the other format? Or is it that there is something about as you get older, you understand and appreciate the nuance and, I know what's the other word you would use. Multi layers and slowness of test cricket. So I think that's the only way to answer that question, right? Because if it's just, if it's the second one, and test cricket is in a great place as we age as a society.

49:23If it's the first one, then all these people are going to grow up. Look, my first love was domestic white ball cricket when the bush rangers, like that was, that was literally how I got into professional cricket. And now I'm just paying most of my time talking about test cricket. So there, I do you think there is an element of you movie on, which is what I never thought that the boards, the boards said that, but they never kind of brought it together so that test T20 cricket could be helped by test cricket. Because they were just making so much money off T20 cricket that they never did. But I can understand why there are elements so that that would happen. And I've says, if the ICC actually develops one ball, how would you develop that? And in O304, Bordeaux-Grabasca, India practice with SG Bulls in Australia, they cook a ball because the BCCI couldn't afford it, how it impacts preparation. I believe, hard to believe they couldn't afford it. Especially because they would have already had a contract with Cucumbera, right? But when the Cucumbera balls are quite expensive, but are they 120 US dollars, 140 US dollars? I don't know what they would have been back then. But yeah, you don't want to practice with a different ball.

50:25If at all possible, bowling and batting, but just to feel of it in your hand, anyone who's ever played club cricket will know that, like, maybe for like a new see-me, who just does the same thing every single time. But if you do anything else, the ball feeling different in your hand is a huge issue. I don't think the ICC should develop one ball. I think they should develop three balls, right? Or four balls, or whatever that may be. Because I don't think you can develop one ball. I think they should own the three companies and develop the best balls for each location. I would never be in a situation where I would say that one ball would be able to do it because the lacquer needed for a ball in England is very different than the lacquer needed for a ball in Australia. Lacker in the subcontinent is different again. Hardness, seam, all these different things react differently to every country. So I actually want to go the other way. I want to develop multiple balls, but out of one general think tank or company. I don't have says, as a freelance cell right now, I'll face here, I'll try and say your question again

51:27in English. I don't have as a freelancer right now, facing a difficult time with getting work, a payment as a freelance yourself. How do you handle it as you have done it longer? Yeah, I've said this before. I found it as a freelance harder to balance late payments than I did with finding work. Because in your head you have done that job and even though it's not in your account, you're like, okay, but it'll be in my account in six to eight weeks, right? And having worked in cricket, you know, I recently just had a major organization take about a year to pay me and another one, maybe actually two major organizations took a year to pay me. It's right for cross cricket and has been pretty much my entire career. Finding the work is tough enough as it is, not getting paid on time is a disgrace. It's really not that hard guys, like press the button. And I get it for companies like, you know, when we were, you know, good areas or con box if you're a startup, there's also like, there's some companies that I've worked for that have like really tricky freelance systems that maybe aren't as updated as they want to be.

52:28But quite often it's just, it's not even that. It's just that no one has pressed the button to pay you and you can't get to the person. Maybe the best job you can be is freelancers work out the actual person who presses the button. So many major companies now use interns, by the way. And they fuck it up all the time. And I've, I mean, one of the reasons I did I did honor with the business and setting it up the way I did is I was sick and tired of freelance work. Partly because it just started to disappear and I didn't see a future in it. I think before lockdown, I was fine at getting freelance work because I would say in the media in general, people have underused or underutilized their talent. And I think in lockdown, they realized, wait a minute, we've got really talented people here. Why are we spending all this money on freelance? And so it didn't really work. But yeah, it's, I think freelance has disappeared during my career to an almost terminal point at the moment. Uday says, your Indian cricket all format Mount Rushmore.

53:31This is a great question, Uday. But I have actually answered it on a podcast that we'll be coming out soon. So I can't tell you what it will be. I think Bayram and I did it and we had, do we have the same team? Or do we have this three players out of four? I think we had a slightly different team between the two of us. Not team, I'm out in, I rush more. But yeah, we've done a whole series of these on, I think the top 10 teams, and we run our time, we couldn't do the rest. We wanted to do an associate one and a woman's one and a couple of other ones as well. But it's a series that we'll come back with. So we've actually got some other ideas as well of what to do. But yeah, I think it's, I don't know if anyone would be massively surprised at mine, but maybe they will. Is the 1987, 88 West Indies versus Pakistan the best first versus second series. There must be some pretty good South African ones in there too. Was 13, 14, one versus two in South Africa?

54:34That was a cracking series. The problem is that those two countries that don't have a lot of cricket media. So I'd have to go back and hit the books. Try to remember what the school loan was. Here we go. There's a three test series. So West Indies won the last one by two wickets. I mean, it's a hell of a way to come back. They were chasing 260 odd and they got them eight wickets down, which is pretty, pretty cool. There's not that much video footage of this series either. Is there, I think, I was looking for it when I was writing my book, Pakistan won the other test easily. Oh, Pakistan held on for the draw. That's right. Yeah, it's a pretty good one. 13, 14 if that was one, but there must be an Australian South Africa series, I would have thought. And there's certainly been a story and ashes series where, you know, I suppose before rankings, maybe, but where they were the two best themes. There must be one in like the late 50s, early 60s

55:35when both teams are strong, right? Idiots of answers. What should a bad of this era need to do to go past Bradman average 80 or more than averaging a particular number? Would there be no more trade videos? No, we're definitely doing more trade videos. To go past Bradman in this era, well, in this era, it probably would be 80, right? Because the batting averages are so low from everyone. I've always said that for me, it's less about averaging 99.94 and it's more about what are the second, third, fourth and fifth best artists averaging at that time. And in Bradman's case, like he was massively ahead of everyone else, you would have to be 20 runs probably averaging more than anyone else, which I don't even think Steve Smith got near, right? And we're all pretty excited by his peak as well. So I think that's what you would have to do. Karen says, ever wonder which region is the, ever wonder which region is the undersibita cradle of cricket legends and why the answer is Mumbai? Let's talk about the magic of cricket culture. I don't think it is Mumbai though, is it? It's probably Barbados.

56:37If, especially if you factor in how many people live in, in Barbados, it, I mean, what's the, what's the population of Barbados today? I mean, we're talking about like a street in Mumbai, probably has more people than Barbados. Barbados has 282,000 people. Let's have a look. Bayesian cricketers. Let's do the top 15. All right, so we have, oh, actually, this is the Barbados 11. So 280,000 people now. So it was probably less than that. Gordon Greenwich is opening the banning with Desmondaine. So Gordon Greenwich is top 35 best batter of all time, roughly, so top my head. Desmondaine's probably about a top 75, top 80. These, Everton weeks is banning at first drop in this side. He averaged 58.6 into his cricket. Frank Whirl is banning up for, he averaged 49.48 and I would argue with a better play than Everton weeks. Clyde Wallcott also averaged 56 and he's banning up five.

57:38Garfield Sobers is at six. Jason Holder is at seven. Malcolm Marshall at eight. Wes Hall at nine. Joe Gunner at 10 and Kim R. Roach. There's not a lot of filler in that list, right? Like how would that compare to, I don't know, an all-time Victorian team? Where what are they in Victoria, maybe four, five million people? An all-time, Delhi team? Where there's what? Well, let's say on average 15 million people, like I know it's like way more than that, but it didn't always have that many people as it has now. Like that would crush those teams, right? What's the New South Wales team? Best 11 from New South Wales. So New South Wales, why can't I find that? I know they've got an 11. Ah, here we go, here we go. Arthur Morris and Mark Taylor. So probably not quite as strong as the West Indies, up there. Brad Minnet III, Steve Smith at four,

58:39doesn't bowl like Frank Whirl does. Steve War at five, Alan Boderat VI, Adam Gilchrist at seven, Ray Limel, Bill O'Reilly, Pat Cummins, Glimmagarr is the bowling attack. Alan Davidson doesn't make this team. By the way, they've got Michael Clark as 12, man. Absolutely not. I think if you look the second 11, if you look at the second 11 of New South Wales, it's pretty full on as well. And so what is Mumbai? I love it just for fun. Must have some fun players in there. So it's Kovaska and Merchant. So I'm happy to say, well, I mean, Kovaska I've got us top 10. So I think that that beats both of the other two opening combinations. I mean, Merchant's a bit tricky to judge, but I'm happy to go there. Ben Sarkar at three, it's not Bradmin, right? It's probably not Weeks either. And Tadulkar at four. He's not Steve Smith in that area, but he's not Tadulkar.

59:40And Frank Marlis-Greet, but he's knowing you that. Ajit Waddhaka at five. I think the other two teams have much stronger number five. Polly Umrega at six. But the bowling is Ajit Aga, sorry, for who can, Janiyam, I missed him. Ajit Aga, Sabash Gopter, Sehir Khan and Padmaka Shavaka. This is a good team. Barbados team is still ridiculous. And considering the difference of sizes between Sydney, Mumbai and Barbados or New South Wales, Mumbai and Barbados. Pretty, there's something going on there. But yeah, they're all very good at cricket, all of these places. All right, and last question is, Aditiya says, in 2029, what attributes of a cricket analyst would excite you? What do you not like in them today? I still think there's a bit of one number hunting in analysts of today. I think there's a lot, I think you use a bunch of different bits of information

1:00:40to get a better idea of someone. And I think a lot of other people are like, I've come up with this number and it's awesome. So that's probably the thing that has not as good for me. And in 2029, what are we now, 2026? So what's that three years away? Just took this more of them. Not being funny, but there should be more accessible by ball data, well, whole guy data for everyone. So if people had more access to whole guy data, I think cricket would move forward exponentially in the next three, by 2029. There are so many smart people in cricket, or people who just are cricket fans, people who do other things, I can manage, right? Give them the new information and we can move cricket forward, we can move it beyond, he's lost half the art. If we can move it, we can move it in different directions. That's probably, so I don't know if it's analysis as much as the access.

1:01:42I think the people are already there. Let's make it so that people don't have to spend all their time getting the data, cleaning the data, and very little time actually using the data. All right, that is me done for today. No, it's not. He can't say it's had sent super chats that have been deleted. I do not know how to deal with those. I'm sorry, my man. I didn't delete any super chats. It might be a stream yard issue. Sorry, the first one I got was from Anav. So not 100% sure. Maybe the team can find them for another day, but sometimes stream yard does do weird things with super chats and comments, and that's just where we are. I have a limited amount of skills. I don't even have that many. It's left I have less than a limited amount of skills. Anyway, I'm Jared Kim, but this has been the Waggon Wheel. I will see you again soon for more wagons and wheels. Thank you for listening to this podcast on the Compact Network. There is an ad free version of this you can find

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