(09/04) Defense attorney Lou Shapiro reacts to Clancy mistrial

0:00This is an I heart podcast guaranteed human. Can't find am six 40 you're listening to the John Cobalt podcast on the I heart radio. And we are going to talk in just a moment, Lucia Pirro. He's an attorney, defense attorney here in Southern California. The Lindsey Clancy murder trial is over and she's neither guilty nor not guilty. It was a hung jury 11 to one in favor of not guilty by reasons of insanity. But one heroic juror, a man stood up to the mob and said, no, she's guilty. She murdered her three children. Five, three and eight months, exercise band around their little necks, strangled all three of them face down on the floor in the basement. First sent her husband out to do errands, then did the murders and then realizing what she had done.

1:03She threw herself out a window after trying to cut her neck and wrists. And she didn't kill herself. She didn't paralyze herself for the rest of her life with spinal injury. But the number of crazed women out in the street screaming for her. And the defense attorney also crazed very angry with this one juror stood up, claiming he didn't understand or refuse to consider reasonable doubt. Well, maybe it reasonable doubt. Oh, wait, wait, maybe he didn't have reasonable doubt. Yes. I mean, I did understand if you don't have to have reasonable doubt. And what's the reasonable doubt? Nobody disputed that she she strangled them. Let's get Lucia Pira on. Lu, how are you? Hey, good to be back with you, man. Thanks for saving me for the big ones. Yeah.

2:03No, this is this is a heavy one. I this one makes me crazy. Well, tell me what you thought of the verdict here. And then we'll get to some of the details. What was your overall reaction? Me and you are very much alike. And I'll tell you this. When you first heard about this case, when it started out, you hear a woman killed her three kids. You think right away, there's no way she's getting out of this. Come on. Like no way, right? But then as the trial went, the court public opinion, and you hear the experts and you start hearing this sort of wave of like, no, no, there's more to the story. She didn't just kill her kids, but she was diagnosed with postpartum psychosis. And people started talking about what that is and how common it is and what it can do to somebody. And then he's, if you learn in the trial that she committed, you know, attempted suicide, through herself herself out of window is paralyzed from the waist down. You start looking at now, you start looking at her on on TV, right? Or watching on video, saying, looking at this person with

3:05the pills on the table and you start feeling bad for her. I didn't. And then what happened? Sorry. I did not. I don't know. She's, she terrifies me. You know what I saw? I saw crazy eyes. And I saw a woman who murdered, willfully murdered. She wasn't overtaken by some supernatural force. This is not like some horror movie. This is her making a decision because she center has been out. And then she tried to kill herself afterwards. That's obvious knowledge that what she did was horrifically wrong. Why am I wrong? Right. So, well, so the, because here's why you're not necessarily wrong. It's a subjective test. That's why it's difficult for two people to agree on this because two people can look at this and another person could say, well, maybe she didn't appreciate the difference between right and wrong throughout that entire time. That it was a different person. That's what her

4:08attorney argued. The person sitting in court now was not the person who did all these things. The internet searches and sending their husband out. That was a different person. There was a second wife. I love all this rhetoric from the attorneys. It wasn't another woman. There wasn't a second wife there. It wasn't an operation. It was hard. It was the same woman. It was mom. It was her, but the law allows fraudulent on this issue. And clearly, you had 11 jurors who said, I don't think she knew the difference between right and wrong when she did all this. And I remember, they're sitting in the room for seven weeks looking at this woman in a wheelchair who can't move from the waist down, who's crying in the middle of testimony. That's irrelevant. It's a lot. That's irrelevant. Yeah. This she hurled herself out the window. Because she knew what she did was wrong. And she was ashamed and mortified by it. All right. Look, that's what there is a lot of people who agree with you as well. But as you can see,

5:12if you were to poll your, call your friends or family around the dinner table tonight and start talking about it, you'll get different points to do because it's a subjective test. Not objective is do you think as a jurors sitting there that she knew the difference between right and wrong. If you don't think she did, it's not guilty by reason of insanity. That's how we got 11 of them. But is there some kind of mass psychosis, some mass frenzy among the nine women? Like do they have their own mental illness? Because I'm seeing hundreds of women dressed in pink cheering on this child killer, this triple child killer. And I'm thinking that is some kind of mass contagion. This is like social madness. This is Salem witch trial stuff. And that could happen in the room. And after after seven weeks, could they all have fed off each other's insanity and created like an alternate reality, like a reverse mob. Usually the mob whips themselves into a frenzy to kill a bad guy here. They whip themselves in the frenzy to protect this woman.

6:19Yeah, I don't think Reddington would have kept you on the jury. But I'll tell you one thing that maybe some of your frustrations should go towards a prosecution. Here's why I think they overplayed their hand. Their theory that she fabricated the suicide attempt. I don't think played well with the jury, right? They could have argued that she, her suicide attempt was real because of your reason because she felt so guilty for what she did. But that's not what they argued. They argued this always won't be cover up. She wanted to kill the kids. And then she made some light scratches on her neck and on her wrist and then tried to fly down the wall out of the window, not, but then it went away, it went awry on her. It didn't go the way she planned it. So that's why she's paralyzed. That wasn't the, that wasn't the right play. She should have embraced the fact like what you're saying. That would have probably been something that landed a little bit better with the jury. But who knows? They were sitting there in that room and we weren't. I think when you sit in that room, it's a lot different than watching replays

7:22and hearing reports and so forth. There's a clip here. I want to, I'm playing 30 seconds. And it's the Plymouth County DA Tim Cruz, the prosecutor being asked by a reporter about the sensitivity of the prosecution. Play the clip. Would you cut one? Yeah, I'm not going to stand out here and listen to this. Yeah, Cruz, you had 11 jurors that didn't necessarily believe your case. Where do you say those people who felt that the whole prosecution was sensitive? Where's what? In sensitive. In sensitive is killing three children. In sensitive is ignoring those facts. We have an obligation to stand up for those people and see justice and make sure that it's authentic justice and make sure they get justice. So if people don't, can't understand that, I don't know how I can answer that question. To me, we're in an alternate universe where everything is inside out and upside down. In sensitive is Cruz laying out the case, which was true. Nobody was denying that she did it. She didn't deny it. The defense attorney didn't deny it. It's insensitive to point out that

8:25she murdered the kids. And this is from journalists. What kind of insanity is this here? Look, it depends if you want to look at the cause or the effect. The effect everybody will agree is horrific. And you have to, the victims here clearly are those three kids who are no longer with us. But if you just look at the effect and not the cause, that's not the whole story. And the other side is what caused this. And I think that's where there's more of a dispute in terms of how we got to this point. The crime is about what you do. When did the crime become about why you did it? It's what you do. I don't care why she did it. Whether she had a mental illness or not. All that matters is those three kids are dead. This is like this is the stuff Oprah started. Well, of course, it's an it's awful. I mean, nobody can even put this tragedy into context. You

9:25can't even begin to explain it. But the law is pretty clear that you have to have an act and a mental state at the same time to have a conviction. And the act is there. What you're saying is correct. The act of killing was there, but was the mental state there. That's where there's more of an issue in a dispute. And that's why the 11 to 1 for not guilty by reason and San is yeah. I talked with Royal Oaks, the ABC analyst a lot about this insanity stuff. We've been talking recently about the Nick Reiner case. But isn't that when you really have a psychotic break where you don't realize that you're actually choking children. You think you're choking a stuffed animal or you're stabbing a pumpkin and not an actual human being where you're you're you're think you're being chased by by by demons. It would even completely lost touch with the with the material world. And now you're in some kind of sick fantasy zone. That wasn't her. Well, okay. So the key point that the defense made on this issue, I think, was what mother kills

10:25her own three kids. The fact that a mother killed her own three kids, the way she did only can be explained by someone who is not in the right state of mind. And I think a lot of people can identify with that versus to someone killing somebody else or a stranger or a friend or someone that they're not really, but a mother to kill her own kids. The default response is something must have not been right with her at that time because that's not the way society works. That's not our natural way. So I think that also was a big advantage when we might be overlooking and can be distinguished from other cases that you're rightfully bringing up. All right. Listen, it's good having you on again. Thank you. Lucia Piro defense attorney. Thanks for taking the time. Hey, always fun debating with you. All right. We will now go on to the moist line in just minutes. You're listening to John Cobalt on demand from KFI AM640. We get the moist line coming up right now. 877 moist 86. You want to get on next week 877 moist 86. We have the talk back feature and you could have fun like

11:29these people. Let's roll. Thanks for calling the moist line. I'm so excited to hear from you. It's a bad time. There is a movie called the Sultan's B. It has got Bautomer in it and it is about meth in the desert in California in trailer parks. John is a good way to put the garbage and toxic. All the homeless wacky people. Hey, breaking news. What's the say? A Trump has decided to maybe increase or no longer be called. Can it be called Donald Duck? The more you're going to see a company that's dating and damages, the more they raise our rates and you see it. It's already been happening. The reason our rates are slightly the pace that he's wildfires that they've got. I don't know if they agree that they're responsible but holding a month's distance financially is possible to afford to expand. Only gets passed on to the consumer. Respectfully, John, I think California jumped the shark. If you do the recall, if you have spent your prep do it, if you should have fought in that a court case against the rigging of the

12:34whole election. We are not going to become communists in Los Angeles, California. I heard you guys talking about the crazy homeless guy who was robbing a bank the other day and I always thought that was a normal day in Los Angeles but I don't know. Don't you think that Newsom should refund us taxpayers for his salary because he's never ever here. He's out running around everywhere else and he's not doing his job. So I say he has to refund his salary into the pool and then split it up. What do you think? Given Newscom is a rodeo clown, I think the cartels are funding the politicians here in California. I think they're funneling money in like crazy. I don't know how they're doing it but why else would you allow all the criminals to get away with all the bulls that they get away with? And you forget about the citizens that are literally supposed to be voting for you. Come on, Deborah. You say you're about to eat your strong beer or parasites. They take big肩 and they take a story to go.

13:41This whole pyrr estipate regarding removing most of the pyrr's out of California for sale reminds me of the actual oil embargo of 1973. The oil embargo put out all of the small independent oil companies out of business. This is what's happened in California with the pyrr companies and the big ones like Bridgestone and Michelin. Yeah, they're going to survive. This is the really sad day for Californians. Every time I get drunk, I got a coat for a street vendor food, you know. When you're drunk, it's something to do, man. You got to go for the street vendor with other, it's convenient. It's right there. It's close. It's amazing. In Yuma, they have carved out spots where actually it's fun on a Friday night where people go and there's like eight or nine different trucks all in one like parking space or whatever not in front of any restaurants. That's what should be done here. It's cool to eat your dinner. The same thing. Your retirement is based on what you

14:41make the last three years. So when you do all your overtime, you come up with all this extra money. Also, and you're didn't pay no off all the time you've ever got paid for. I am a truck driver and I am a trainer and I've seen it happen at Schippers where these drivers come in and use their cell phones that translate from whatever language they're speaking to English. And I've watched two Schippers refuse to load these guys truck and they get all upset. I've been trucking for 20 years and it's a nightmare out there. Complete nightmare. I'm going to be getting out of it due to the fact of all the illegal immigrants that are behind the wheel that I have to deal with at the truck stop. It's even worse at the truck stop. I heard you talking about my wine seller with a 5000 model capacity. I can't book down there. I know that you think that you're joking on me but I've got all my

15:44books down there. I've got green eggs and ham and canned that and the green. So I got a lot of good books down there. I'm going to go reach up right now. Thank you for leaving your message. That's incentably making fun of it. Dislexing. We have another round of voice line callers coming up in about about 20 minutes from now. And we're going to talk about Karen Bass being summoned to Washington DC. We got the latest on that to explain where all the homeless buddy went. You're listening to John Cobalt on demand from KFI AM640 John Cobalt show on demand. We did a lot on the Lindsey Clancy nonsense in the first hour. We had Roy Lokes on the legal analyst and then Tracy Park came on in the second hour because she was appalled that Nithya Rahman had come to the Palisades claiming she wants to help. First time she'd been to the Palisades since the fire never showed up before never expressed any

16:45interest never helped anyone do anything in regards to the Palisades fire. And now she's showing up running for mayor telling everybody what's gone wrong. Whoa. Nasey was Tracy was hot. So you should listen to that hour as well on the podcast. John Cobalt show on demand and it's be around all weekend. You can enjoy it. Now next week we are going to have Tim Birchett on. He's a Republican Congresswoman, a congressman from Tennessee, chair of the subcommittee on delivering government efficiency. And they're looking at Karen Bass and they're looking at a billion dollars of federal tax money that was wasted with no benefit. There's nobody disputing this. They allocated the money. Karen Bass took the money. The money has disappeared and we have more

17:46homeless people. In this case we're talking about a billion dollars that went to the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority. Lassa. Witches or which was run jointly by the county and the city. And Karen Bass is deeply involved with Lassa. She had her good friend, the Licia Adams Kellham, running Lassa until the Licia Adams Kellham was caught giving her husband's non-profit a two million dollar contract and then lying about it. And then having to admit that yeah, I'm sorry, I must have been inadvertently put in front of me. Total scam. No, when you're right, when you're the chair of Lassa, you're not supposed to be or were the CEO of Lassa, you're not supposed to be handling your husband's non-profit a two million dollar contract. But this is basses is a hiring standard. You put the Licia Adams Kellham's up next to a Janice Kenone, as they

18:52had at the DW page or in the fire. You see what I'm talking about here. So Karen Bass is now running around saying that Lassa is really dysfunctional. I mean, it just really needs a makeover. It's really not doing well. And yeah, there has been theft. And I'm thinking, whoa, whoa, whoa, Lassa is dysfunctional. Well, what do you know? Lassa has 10 commissioners on the board. Five of them appointed by Karen Bass. One of them is Karen Bass. Five appointed by the LA County Board of Supervisors. Five appointed by the mayor of Los Angeles. So it's dysfunctional. And she's responsible for half of the commissioners. And she's one of them. What do you say here?

19:56The current chair of Lassa is Stephanie Graves appointed by Karen Bass. Oh, what do you know? So Karen Bass appointed the woman who became the chair and Karen Bass appointed several other people or reappointed them. Stephanie Graves, Tanisha Saunders, Wendy Grewel, who was inherited from Garcetti, but bass kept her on. Then five other from the county, but the county is withdrawing its participation with Lassa. It takes a lot of like Nithia Raman had a lot of goll going to the palace aides and saying, Oh, what's happened here? This is terrible because she did nothing. Tracey Park said, even behind the scenes, she never expressed any interest. Even at the public, city council meetings, the committee meetings, no interest, no help, no nothing. And now she's going in as a

20:56savior of the palace aides and bass is saying, Oh, yeah, Lassa, that's really screwed up over there. Lassa is you. You are Lassa. Shameless, but back to Tim Berchard. Again, Republican, Tennessee, Congressman. And it's the subcommittee on delivering government efficiency. And he would like Karen Bass delivered on September 15th. There's going to be hearing at 11 in the morning. And they want her to explain where the billion dollars went. So you know the history, the housing and urban development agency announced recently, it was suspending Lassa from applying for and spending federal funds because of all the fraud and the mismanagement. There's been a number of audits. The audits show money's been stolen, it's disappeared. And since Lassa suspended, it could not have submitted an application for another

22:01$240 million in federal funding. So the funding machine is frozen. And Berchard pointed out some of the some of the fraud, which was reported on LA Times had one, the 1736 Family Crisis Center. I've told you about this lady, Carol Edelcliffe, $1.6 million. She gave herself in two years running the Family Crisis Center. She lives in Hawaii. Claimed a lot of it was accrued vacation time. I never took a vacation. I was working every day. She was working every day from Hawaii. You talk about golf. They all have golf. Bass claiming that Lassa is dysfunctional when she's one of the women running the place, ramen claiming that she can't believe what happened to the

23:02palisades when she never showed up for a year and a half. This Carol Edelcliffe saying, I never took a vacation. It was accrued vacation. I was entitled to it. He lived in Hawaii. Off our tax money. Run some homelessness nonsense. So Tim Berchard is asked fast to turn over a huge collection of documents covering seven years of correspondence between her office and Lassa about the federal tax money. Seven years of communication regarding the management of Lassa between the mayor's office and the city council. September 14th is the deadline. September 15th is the hearing. May I remind you the last time she was requested to talk about missing tax money for homelessness was when a federal judge, David Carter, who is overseeing a lawsuit

24:03from a group of business leaders and activists, they want to know what happened to $2 billion. That bass was responsible for. And again, bass hired 15 attorneys. If you don't believe me, you can look it up. It was 11 attorneys from a private law firm here in Los Angeles and four more were taxpayer paid city attorneys. And the 15 attorneys their job was to create enough interference so that she wouldn't have to testify in court in this civil case. And by dragging it out, the plaintiffs decided to drop their demand that bass testify. And the judge went along with it. But it was only because it was going to delay the case extraordinarily while they fought the claims of 15 different lawyers. So she has never spoken publicly about what happened to the two billion. She wouldn't explain it. She wouldn't account for it. There is no accounting for it. There's no

25:05paperwork. The judge, Judge Carter was shocked at the lack of accountability for all this money. And when she was finally cornered, the wall of lawyers appeared to protect her. Now, she really going to go to wash. She's not being subpoenaed. They're playing nice right now. Of course, she doesn't want to go. Well, there's a campaign going on. She knows what's happened. She knows all the money has been wasted, been stolen. She knows it goes to a lot of nonprofits, nonprofits in turn contribute to her campaign and all the other criminals in the LA City Council. She knows what's going on. We'll have more next week on that. And we have round two of the boys line coming up in moments. You're listening to John Cobalt on demand from KFI AM640. Round two of the boys slide here on KFI. John Cobalt show. Let's go.

26:06Hey, John, thanks for calling the boys line. I'm so excited to hear from you. It's about time. Isn't it funny how the people that dreamed the loudest about inclusiveness at the top of their lung in West Hollywood? They can't talk to a person that's lesbian, that just has some different views. What happened to the inclusiveness? I guess only if you allow them to say what they want to say, right? The only protection Gavin Newsom needs is probably depends because he's so full. I think we should put together a fund to send the people who love communism to go see what life is like in Cuba. I hear you raging about MacArthur Park and all those other areas and bottom line, nobody cares what they look like. If they cared, there would be an uprising and things would get fixed. But there's not because nobody really cares. I'm so excited for election night. I'm going to have a phone with popcorn and something to drink and I'm going to toast whoever wins. I'm hoping it's

27:11nifty around me. I'm hoping. But care and basket we just as fine too because the next day at LA, what a glorious day it will be. There'll be fires raging, street cobras on every corner, bombs and trance, moving into city hall, mass hysteria. Hey, young, you think go bass? Probably that goes 15 lawyers along with her, the working tents so she can take the fifth. For the woman in Brentwood with a little girl, Macoo Dog, who was being terrorized by a woman threatening to kill her to anyone in that circumstance lie. If they are looking for a threat, more than a threat than lie. Why should we be the only one following the law when those above us will not? Our government, there never is any accountability. Everybody points the finger at someone else and keeps stealing money. Why the hell does governor News White get to do that?

28:17Or does she get the power? She can't spend taxpayer money like that. She would have never elected. Unbelievable California. Wake up. David and Groose, you got him out of hand. You know, he needs care definitely. You know, if you will want her to die. What do you bet that the overtime for the CHP officers will be included in the bill that News Women's got to sign? Patty Poppy, PG need just sucks. I lived in Southern California and with edits and I thought they were horrible but PG need. She's worthless. She's not worth $17 million in compensation. She should be paying $17 million because she's horrible. So now that they got Cameron Bath, when is the FBI going to write Scott Wiener's home because somebody who defends child fitters that much should be investigated. God, Cobelle, I swear to God, the shuffling, the papers. I can just take sure you. So pissed. I can't believe you're not like throwing pens against the law. Or do you do that off the air?

29:21But I swear to goodness, no way. That comes across shuffling out the papers. Thanks. Thank you for leaving your message. Please hang up. On YouTube or X you can watch it. Thank you. That's two rounds of the Moist line. And for next Friday, you could get loaded all weekend and call in 877 Moist 86, 877 Moist 86. Eric really likes. Excuse me, editing the calls after a long, drunken weekend. Talkback feature is another way to do it. Oh, just one note, since it is a long weekend, you'll have some time. I keep telling you about the crews that we're going to have on October of 2027. It's going to go from Rome to Athens, Mediterranean crews, Italian ports, Malta, Tunisia, Greek islands. It's terrific. It's the Alora, is the ship, Oceana cruises. And I want you to come. And if you have already contacted travel

30:25store, then put your deposit down and you'll get on board ship credit. So you want to do that now as soon as possible. If you haven't looked into it yet, John Covell crews dot com. Read it this weekend. Think about it. Call book it. It's going to be a lot of fun. We are done. Podcast will be released in a few minutes. Conway is on the radio next. And closure has the news now. Live in the KFI 24 hour newsroom. Hey, you've been listening to the John Covell show podcast. You can always hear the show live on KFI AM640 from 1 to 4 p.m. every Monday through Friday. And of course, anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.