Amma Marfo and Heated Rivalry - EP 865

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Hey Rangers, it's me Jackie Cation and it is another year of the Dark Forest, what the heck right?

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But let's get into the show.

Rangers, guess what?

I'm in Vermont and the woman who is featuring for me who has been on the program before about celebrity crushes is back.

And it's, it's a, I'm a Marfo.

I'm a Marfo is at I'm a Marfo dot com slash comedy for the website.

It'll be the notes and at I'm a Marfo on Instagram and YouTube.

And she has a special coming out in fall called fidget spinster.

Get it?

Anyway, the, if you like a fidget spinner and she does that, but that's not going to be her door to him.

But one day she will meet Aldrin Cournejo and they will go, what are you working on?

Anyway, what are you spinning?

Welcome to the program again.

Thank you for having me back.

I do love yapping at you, which I feel last time was I had a crush on this person.

And you were like, I don't know who that is.

Well, at least two of them are like, yes, you do.

And then we got through it and we got there.

So right.

Well, and that's it.

Right.

I mean, I have, it is, it is a great misfortune that I don't have that photographic memory that politicians,

that the best politicians have where they remember everyone.

I can't even, I mean, I lose cousins.

So I don't, I don't see them off.

But here's a scoop.

We're talking hockey because you like hockey, but then there's also that TV show that's about hockey and kissing.

Yeah.

So I watched the first episode of that show last night.

You did.

Okay.

I did.

He did rivalry.

And guess what?

It's great.

Isn't it?

I didn't know if it was, I thought I didn't know.

I've seen too many terrible, like where the gay people are killed at the end, or it's somehow shamed.

But this is shamed in a way that's so romance novel shamed.

Where you're just like, no, nobody cares about that.

It's like, because in romance novels, she's always like, I'm too smart.

I'm not supposed to tell anyone.

And you're like, nope, he's going to like that.

And this one has that vibe that he and I've only watched episode one.

So good for them.

Yeah.

And it's funny and it's sweet.

It's very sweet.

We came to this yesterday.

We were talking a little bit about TV shows.

We were watching.

So Jackie, myself and Madeline are wonderful open up his local here.

And you would mention, you said there were a couple shows you watching.

You said, and I haven't watched heated rivalry and Madeline.

And I just kind of opened our mouths to unload.

Because that is a thing that happens when you talk to women.

I haven't done the full math, but I'm going to say comfortably women

between the ages of 28 and 59 with HBO Max subscription.

Is it open their mouths to monologue about why you should watch it?

So we decided, let's make this a conversation.

But you're already one six to the way in.

So wonderful.

I'm excited.

And that's great.

And, but let's start with hockey itself.

Because that is a program that you enjoy.

That is a sporting event.

It is.

I don't, I think the only one I've done is hockey masks of goalies.

Which is fascinating.

It's a fascinating conversation.

Because they get to decorate.

Right.

And they get to decorate their own hockey mask.

Because they're the ones that are willing to be the goalies.

Is that why?

I would imagine it's just like you're going to get.

You're going to get hit toward a bunch.

You want to do a craft before.

And they're like, I would like to do a craft before.

Or talk to a person who does a craft to like express myself.

Now, did you grow up liking hockey?

Have you always kind of liked hockey or?

I have.

So both of my parents are from West Africa.

They're from Ghana and they moved to Canada in the east.

Oh, that one.

That might.

Yeah.

So my sister and I were born in Canada.

This is something that most people do not know about me,

but find out during an Olympic year when I don't root for the US.

And they're like, well, why is that?

Anyway.

So we followed hockey our whole lives, but grew up in Tampa, Florida,

which has a hockey team.

They founded that hockey team.

They founded that hockey team.

The year we moved there, they were not good for a long time.

And then the time I went to high school, they started to get good.

So they ended up winning the Stanley Cup for the first time.

The year I left to go to call it.

They're following them from like terrible to amazing.

They're now regularly in contention.

Go bolts.

So this is something I come by very honestly.

Okay.

The whole time very big into Olympic hockey.

Now that we have professional women's hockey, also very into that.

And I have to say that growing up, there was a hockey team in Milwaukee that I liked.

That I never watched, but I like they're called the ad rules.

Okay.

Yeah.

And now they don't exist anymore.

But I accidentally saw a hockey match one time.

And I've seen several things by accident.

Let me just say that I've been dragged to things.

I saw a martina never to Lovah and Chrissy ever play exhibition tennis.

I saw my Davis.

My dad saw my Davis and like brought it up in my 20s.

Just like, you know, I saw Miles Davis once and I was like,

if it were me, I would tell people that once a week, like, how is that possible?

My stepmother accidentally saw Malcolm X speak.

What?

I was like, how come that didn't come up?

Well, because she went to a dance in the 60s of the early 60s was a church dance.

And they were tricking young people in listening to Malcolm X.

They were like, I want to be a political, but you're going to want a party because you're 18.

And it was an unsegregated, it was a mixed dance.

So she didn't tell her parents.

Okay.

And so she went and then Malcolm X spoke.

And then they danced.

I love everything about that story.

Right.

It's amazing, right?

And so Nancy Kay should for the win.

Me, I still like trumpet, but I still don't enjoy an extended solo.

More than fairs.

More than fairs.

More than fairs.

But I love a good trumpet solo if it's not extended.

And it doesn't seem like it's never going to fucking end.

But I, it's not that I, I'm going to have somebody on to explain jazz to me.

But right now hockey is being explained to me.

Yes.

And so Tampa bolts.

Tampa Bay Lightning.

Oh, lightning.

Tampa Bay Lightning.

Oh, the bolts.

Yes, we go.

Let's go.

It's easier in chance.

Yes.

But yes, Tampa is the lightning capital of the world.

More strikes there than anywhere else on the earth.

So they also have two cigar factory museums.

They do.

Not fact from where the lightning play in fact.

Oh, there you go.

So how many people are on a hockey team?

So on the ice at any given point, there are five players.

So three centers or right wing left wing in a center.

Two defensemen.

And then a goalie.

So you should have five plus the goalie at any given point.

If there are more than that, you get a too many men on the ice penalty.

Somebody has to sit out for two minutes.

You could also have situations where there are fewer.

So if a penalty is assessed against the other team,

that team's part of their penalty loses a person for two minutes,

five minutes or ten minutes, depending upon the nature of the infraction.

Right.

Ten minutes.

Are you actually, did you knock a tooth out?

How did?

What happened?

Ten minute misconduct.

Ten minute misconduct is usually like a major fight

or if a fighting incident like draws blood.

Usually that's the distinction between two, five and ten.

Like if someone bleeding, do we have to check for teeth?

That sort of thing.

What?

So.

Has it become less violent?

Because it's traditionally known as a very violent sport.

But I feel like it's got less violent in the in the last 20 odd years or whatever.

So it has.

It has because I think we're aware of CTE risks.

Hockey doesn't have as many CTE incidences as something like the fall or boxing.

But it does have some because it is a sport that you are smashing people.

A lot of people.

Yeah.

Things like that.

So there's a little bit less fighting incentivized,

but it is kind of seen as an honorable kind of thing.

Like if someone takes a shot at someone else in your team,

it's not mindless pugilism.

It is, I am standing up for my friend.

Don't do that to my friend.

So there's an element of honor to it.

Oh, wait.

So like if somebody, but if somebody crashes somebody into the board.

So there are teammates might be like too hard.

Not okay.

Sometimes.

Is that one of the reasons why they might get into a pushing match,

which is what it seems to be.

Okay.

And there are teams who have a person who ostensibly is good at hockey.

And most of them are, but their job is more or less to be the person that fights

when that happens.

This person is called a forester.

Oh, sure.

Yes.

And for sure.

And for sure.

Yes.

The Tampa Bay Lightning has a wonderful enforcer right now in Eric Ternack.

He just played for the Slovakian Olympic team.

Okay.

But yeah, he is the one most likely to fight.

They also have Emil Lilleberg, who I don't think scored a goal last season,

but he hit a bunch of people.

So that was fun.

Yeah.

And they keep up with those stats.

Actually, I think he's out right now because he got some manner of facial fracture.

And they're just like, Hey, you can't play until your face heals.

And he's like there.

So.

Are there any other roles on a hockey team that don't entirely covered by a hockey?

Like there's the punching person.

Yeah.

I mean, they have captains.

They have assistant captains.

Okay.

And then I really like it.

Because it's also a sport that has a lot of volunteer work built in.

So I know our team works a lot with the like children's youth, youth youth.

So there's a lot of youth hockey programs.

A friend of mine who still lives in Tampa has two kids.

Well, she has four kids.

There are a lot of kids in that house.

But two of them played junior hockey coached by former lightning players.

And sometimes current lightning players will go as well.

Years ago, she and I did a they did like a women's hockey camp,

where you would go and like learn skills on the ice.

You would meet people in the main office and a couple of the players came down

and like hung out with us and did drills.

So that was really fun and exciting.

Like I can't overstate you how exciting it is that everybody else is into hockey now.

Because I know I get to talk about all this.

I just had to sit on it and wait for someone to ask.

So yeah, the fact that wait, is there.

So the women.

So I don't know where you want to go with this conversation.

But I kind of want to go lateral into the Olympics.

Let's talk about it.

Because there was, I didn't know that there was a women's Olympic hockey team.

Has there always been, I mean, not always, but for the last several years.

I'd probably say the last 20 to 25 years.

Okay.

So for the last at least four, at least four Olympics.

Yeah.

Okay.

And our, we seem to be good.

We are.

We're quite good.

And it historically was sourced from college hockey because there wasn't a professional women's league.

Now within the past three years, we do have now professional women's hockey league.

There are six teams so far.

Okay.

So they're now able to pull from professional hockey in a way that they couldn't previously.

Now by comparison, the men's team has gone back and forth between allowing NHL players to play and not.

So sometimes it is like all college players or players that play overseas.

But the players that are on NHL teams can't and they didn't take a break.

They came back for this Olympics.

So this was in a little bit with NHL players so they too could pull from professional leagues.

Okay.

And is it arbitrary?

Does it feel arbitrary?

Like what you know they're doing it?

To me, it feels arbitrary.

Like sometimes they're just like, we'd rather not.

And then sometimes they're like, actually this time it's okay.

I said, we're going to see more where it's okay.

And they're able to play it around it.

But yeah, some, some Olympics they just haven't wanted to.

Okay.

I didn't see either of those or the Paralympic hockey, but I understand that's done on sleds or.

I think it's I did see I saw like wheelchair soccer at the Paralympics the summer and that was amazing.

Just the upper body strength is of course an extraordinary.

But have you watched any of the Paralympics hockey?

I have.

I have watched sled hockey and in fact the US and Canada are playing the well the men's because there is not women's

Harrah hockey.

Yeah, they're petitioning for it.

We're hoping for next Olympics.

But for the Olympics right now, it is just men.

Although it is technically a co-ed quoted sport.

So there are teams with women on it.

Like the Japanese sled hockey team does have a lot.

Okay.

But at this time most of the teams do not.

They're allowed.

Right.

But many don't.

Yes, it is so they're on sleds.

And you're essentially you have two sticks.

And you're essentially kind of like doing a combination of propelling yourself with the sticks on the ice but also shooting and advancing the puck towards the goal.

It's fascinating to watch.

It's super athletic.

There's so much like actual hockey in it.

Like I think you would think a lot of people kind of assume that Paralympics is like a paired down version of it.

No, there are penalties.

There are fights.

Like it's the same thing they're just.

Right.

Right.

While we're compelling.

Right.

It is wildly compelling.

It's just it's the same sport but slightly different.

But so is every sport.

When different people play it.

And that's why I used to go as hard for the Paralympics as you do for the Olympics.

I wish they were concurrent.

I really do.

Because I bet you the right the the the the the Olympians who are not Paralympians would go and watch the Paralympians.

Yeah.

The parent and vice versa.

And they would just they would cheer each other on.

And it would be.

You know, talk about it.

Talk about it.

You know, I would I'm tearing up thinking of it.

Come on.

Yeah.

Sell it.

Let everybody let everybody watch everybody.

I will say one thing I suspect is happening.

Is that I know in some instances you have to modify the field of play.

So as an example, the hockey.

You might not be the room.

Yeah.

The hockey was in the same arena for the Olympics as it was for the Paralympics.

But they have to adapt it a little bit.

So the way that you go into the bench and the penalty area, for example.

There are clear doors.

Because you're lower the ground.

So you have to be able to see in and out in a way that you wouldn't because you can't get on a bench if you are in a sled.

And they don't want to have to do that.

Right.

And then there are other pieces of it that they kind of have to adapt.

So what I suspect they're thinking is we can't run them at the same time because we wouldn't be able to switch them back and forth.

Right.

So I think they have like the bridge industry.

Yeah.

To adapt the venues in a way that Paralympians could use.

Right.

And the snowboard was the same.

They had to they had to love a lot of different feet.

Playing field.

Yeah.

It would.

Yeah, I'd love for them to figure it out.

Anyway, so.

So do they play to a certain number?

Do they play by time?

Like they it's not ping pong.

They don't play to 20, right?

Right.

They play by time.

So it is for.

Typical.

Not.

Not typical.

So we'll say for Olympic hockey.

NHL hockey.

PWH.

It is three 20 minute periods.

Okay.

So I'm talking is three 15 minute periods.

Okay.

Yeah.

So it.

Yeah.

So it's three periods.

Three periods.

And then if it is tied at the end, then you can go into overtime.

And then potentially a shootout as well.

Okay.

So is overtime done.

Like in two minute eight or two five and 10 minute increments or whatever.

And then it's just one one for like sort of like soccer where.

One person tries to get a goal.

Another person tries to get a goal.

So it's 20.

It's usually 20 minute overtime periods.

And then it's so that's the like when you score it's done.

What they've done and they've changed rules about this a little bit.

And Olympic rules are a little bit different from NHL or PWHL rules is then when you get to a shootout,

there are five rounds initially.

Of each team trying to score into the other and then three of five wins.

If it ends up being.

Okay.

Then you can keep going until somebody does it.

Does one.

Yeah.

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Okay.

So, um, who's your favorite team?

Is it the Tampa?

It is the Tampa Bay Lightning.

Okay.

And, um,

how many games a year do they play?

Is it a lot like baseball or not a lot like football?

It's in between.

So the NHL season is 82.

81 games.

81 games.

That's a lot of games.

There's a lot of games.

I believe there are like 18 football games.

Yep.

Yep.

Something like fantasy for both.

And one of them took significantly more of my time.

80.

80 games where they're on the ice.

Mm-hmm.

And the games are at least there's 60 minutes.

They're at least.

And then there are intermissions for like clearing the ice and stuff like that.

And then it's like a stoppage of play game.

So it's 20, but the clock stops and starts.

So it.

You're there for a bit.

You're there for a bit.

But yeah, 81 games between October and roughly April May.

And then play off.

So if you go further, you go further.

And is the the Super Bowl that called the Stanley Cup?

It is.

Yeah.

And that's the name of the trophy that you get.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So it's done in brackets and that all of a sudden you're playing for the Stanley Cup.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

Okay.

And.

What is the best game you ever saw?

I don't know who are your favorite teams and players and and and moves and what do you got?

Yeah.

So I will say I have considerable recency bias because last month I went to the stadium series.

So most games in the NHL and the PWHL are played indoors.

The NHL does a handful of games that they play outdoors.

The winter classic being won and then they have what's called the stadium series.

There are two to three additional games that are outdoors.

They're in places that typically don't host hot.

So I went to Tampa in the beginning of February to see the Bruins play the lightning at Raymond James, where we normally play football.

Okay.

So it's an outdoor game.

And it was very exciting because we can't we sport.

Yeah.

I know.

So it was very cold that we get, which I did not expect.

Okay.

Like so it's working.

Well, I was I was watching just a regular game the Thursday before I had to leave.

And our local newsman, ABC Action News is Dennis Phillips was on the con course with the host.

And he was like, we're predicting snow this weekend and I did not think I would ever have to say that.

So it was quite cold.

Like by the time we got to the game, it was 41 when it started and like 3635 when it ended.

Wow.

Which as someone who wanted to pack shorts was not happy about it.

And I let everyone know who I ran into.

I wanted to pack shorts to go watch an outdoor hockey game.

Anyway, how was that game?

So it was very excited because lightning scored first, but then the Bruins scored five unanswered goals.

So there was a period where it was five one, but we came back.

We ended up winning six five in a shootout.

So it was a lot of hockey, which if you don't like being cold outside, as I do, was both exciting.

And deeply uncomfortable.

But we got through it.

And then the other thing about that, which I talk a little bit about in a set that I have now about hockey, is that we saw a goalie fight.

This does not happen very often.

So yeah.

So Jeremy Swamon and Andre Vasilevsky fought.

Okay.

And which are that ones on the what Bruins and ones on the.

Jeremy Swamon is the goalie for the Boston Bruins, Andre Vasilevsky is the goalie for the Tampa Bay Lightning.

And they came to center ice and they fought partway through the second period.

Literally, they had to run at each other from across the hockey field, hockey skating rink, whatever.

It was their ship talking as they skated towards each.

I see you.

I suspect the problem.

Exactly.

Like it very much is like a.

Hey, hey.

And then the other person has to be like.

Okay.

And then they get to the center and they fight.

And in that same way for any reason that you would fight, it's the kind of thing that like changes the energy of the game fires people up.

And again, they never do this.

So I think about how many of the lightning players said like in interviews that are like, yeah, once we saw that, like we got fired up and we're like.

We can't let him have fought for nothing.

And that momentum brought them from so far behind against the one in a shootout.

And we have any idea what the fight was about.

It might not have been about anything.

Some fights are about nothing.

Sometimes it's just, I think we need a change of momentum and the two players that fight are just like we're going to be the ones to do it.

Wait, does it feel like?

No, I don't mean to belittle the sport of hockey.

Does it feel like wrestling?

Sometimes it does.

Like it might be drugs.

And sometimes it does.

Yes.

Okay, we're just like this.

We need to change the narrative of the game.

And we're going to do that by doing something weird.

Yeah.

Like to go least fighting.

Yeah.

Because what on earth?

They can't even see each other.

Yeah.

And like they can't talk to each other.

It's very far.

And even if they were to yell at each other, there's so much going on.

They wouldn't hear it.

Most times they're not that.

Yeah.

But some are.

Some very much are just like we need a momentum shift.

We're going to do it.

Right.

Okay.

Now.

And.

Are there other hockey movies and shows that I have not seen?

I've seen the cutting edge.

Which is.

It's a little bit of hockey movie.

Right.

There's a hockey guy who becomes a figure skater.

And when the hockey games at the Olympics happen this year, I wanted.

And especially the women's hockey.

I was like, what if there was a movie where there was a hockey player

who had to become a figure skater?

Mm-hmm.

But it was a woman.

Or some of the women figure skaters had to become hockey players

because there was they were they were out of teammates.

So like if you want to write this movie.

Oh, yes.

No.

I want someone else to write this movie.

And for me to get paid with a story idea.

But because Alyssa Liu.

Yeah.

From Oakland, California.

Let's say someone is like, we just need one more player.

And she's like, I'm a figure skater, not a hockey player.

And then all of a sudden they're like, here's some pads.

You could do this.

And then how great would it be if she were, I don't know,

slide around and doing like figure skating stuff.

Yeah.

On a hockey, on the hockey field.

And then maybe she falls in love with another lady.

I'm imagining like a really compelling mini series

where somehow she's doing both.

It's like that two dates to the dance where she's on the physical team

and the hockey team at the same time

and has to like make it to both.

And then somehow her final for both is scheduled the same day.

And then she has to like make a decision

and there's a big reveal.

And whoever she's dating like finds out

and is like, I'm still in love with you anyway.

Right.

Like it's somehow negative,

which is a classic romantic movie trope where you're like,

no, again, nobody cares about that.

That wouldn't be a thing.

Did you make both events?

Did you win both of them?

Probably.

So, yeah, it's.

Yeah.

So, but what, so if there's a,

as opposed to the cutting edge, are there other hockey movies?

Wait, ducks.

Yeah, mighty ducks.

So there are three mighty ducks, two of which I think are worth your time.

Third one.

Third one's okay,

but like the first two are really where it's at.

So the mighty ducks absolutely.

And in fact, the second one has a kid that's on that US junior team

that was a figure skater and may kind of like convert him into being a hockey player.

He does great.

Okay.

Miracle.

If you're into like a historic one.

Oh, right.

I was at a high school event.

Called the Persian market.

Very sensitive.

Anyway, it did not.

I do not believe it made it into the into the 90s.

But in 1980, we were there.

My stepmother in the education was come up twice now.

She was for health for her exercise.

She was in a belly dance trip.

In 1980.

And she danced.

At the Persian market.

Her, her troop heard her and these two other women.

And, um, and I was in the audience.

And I was standing by these two guys.

They're like, who's the little blonde?

And I said, that is my mother.

And they stopped talking.

Anyway, so, uh, but so in 1980.

I've digressed again.

It's a classic door for a moment.

I guess what I'm talking with Amma Marfo.

Feel free to go to AmmaMarfo.com slash comedy.

Instagram.

It's on the Marfo YouTube.

It's on a Marfo.

And you're going to be at the Traverse City Comedy Festival.

In, in April, I believe.

Yeah.

And fidget spinster coming out this fall.

So follow the Instagram.

And then you'll find out about it as it happens.

Uh, let's get back to the fact that.

Um, so we got a miracle is, is the one where the US team beat the Russian team.

And it never happened before.

So I do remember it was a big deal.

Yeah.

Yes.

So, yeah.

Um, so that's the other movie.

That's it.

The ducks and miracles.

There are, there are others.

But those are the ones I think I enjoy the most.

Um, and then in terms of TV.

It's actually very elegant segue into where we're going next.

Because we're talking about here to rivalry.

But it does have two predecessors that.

That are important to the telling of this story of heated rivalry success.

So.

Yeah.

He did rivalry is a show.

It's a Canadian show.

Uh, originally commissioned by a Canadian network called Crave.

Now, Jacob Tierney, who is the creator, writer and primary director for.

He did rivalry did two shows previously with Crave and another collaborator that had hockey involved in them.

So the first really.

Yes.

So the first hockey.

He, he, he does.

He's Canadian.

Maybe that's it.

Yeah.

Or at least he likes telling stories about it.

So the first is Letter Kenny, which many folks may be familiar with.

It's streaming on Hulu.

It is a Crave show.

But they're.

It's basically about clicks of folks that are in Letter Kenny, Ontario.

And one of those clicks is the hockey player.

So there are two hockey players that are kind of part of that ensemble cast.

Riley and Jonesy.

And.

And is that.

Are all of these fiction?

No.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

These are fiction.

Letter Kenny.

Okay.

So Riley and Jonesy are kind of part of this ensemble.

So you get a sense of like how they play hockey, how they treat it, how it's essential to their personalities relative to everybody else on the show.

And then within that part of the story, there is a referee and player on their.

It's like junior lead team, essentially named Shorsey.

You never see Shorsey's face.

You just hear him talk.

Sometimes he's on the ice as a hockey player.

Sometimes he is refereeing.

And he's just this oyster's character that's like chirping, which is like talking smack to the other teams.

And then around season five or six of Letter Kenny, he gets a spin off.

So there is a second show called Shorsey, spin off of Letter Kenny, also available on Hulu.

Okay.

Narratively, they're so different from each other.

Letter Kenny is very fast writing.

Like I think about it as in a lot of ways, really similar to 30 Rock, like high joke volume.

A lot of just like quickly back and forth.

Shorsey's a little bit more narrative driven.

So you will follow a story over the course of the season.

It's about this team that he pulls together to kind of turn around the fortunes of a losing minor league hockey team in such a reontario.

And while Jacob does not, he's not credited as creator of it.

He directed a lot of it and had a really big role in that show.

Okay.

So both of those things he did and root to making heated rivalry.

So when you watch heated rivalry, knowing that he also did those, totally they're incredibly different.

But when you think about the experiences he has about staging hockey as a sport and like finding ways to bring humor into an otherwise really beautiful story.

You can see it's like this is Jacob turnie at his highest level of performance is bringing along everything he learned along the way.

So both letter Kenny and Shorsey, if you have not watched them, but who is like it did to me saying you would like these, you probably would give them a chance.

I think you'll really like it.

Okay.

And and then but heated rivalry is based on a book.

Right?

Or a series of books or something?

It's a series of books.

So there is a Canadian writer named Rachel Reed and she is a big hockey fan.

Like she just loves hockey is an enthusiast and Nova Scotia and felt some kind of way about the nature of the NHL and like the types of things that they are dealing with but not talking about.

So things like the fact that there are no real active openly gay players.

The fact that they kind of tend to sweep under the rug instances of sexual assaults or domestic violence and things like that.

So she's writing.

So she's writing a story and a series of stories.

There are six books right now.

We're getting a seventh.

Next year.

That basically just goes into what is it like to exist in this world.

In this profession.

Right.

Being gay not being able to talk about it.

And he did write any of the other kind of big.

The other books kind of about the other big issues that that are not dealt with in the heart.

Yeah.

Some of the other ones will come.

Listen.

She amazing.

Fantastic.

And.

And so.

Okay.

So heated rivalries.

The first one.

Yes.

So heat rivalry is.

It's.

It's the show.

It is the second book in the series.

And then.

Okay.

Episode three, which you have not yet gotten to is based on the first book.

Called Game Changer.

So it takes a little bit of a departure.

This is not a bottle episode.

There's a whole separate conversation to be discussed about a bottle episode versus a departure episode.

It's a departure.

But it does come back around to influence the main characters later in the season.

Okay.

You might be like, why do we get pulled away?

It'll come back around.

Stick with it.

Of course.

I know that there's two books are covered in.

In this first season.

Yes.

Okay.

Which is sort of like what.

Uh, they're doing with Bridgerton and sort of like what they're doing with Richard.

Yeah.

Where they're taking the books and they're like, we're just going to pull something from this one and something.

And they do it with Marvel all the time.

But there are 10,000 comic books.

So.

Yes.

You're not going to run out of story.

Uh, but with a book where there's only six books.

Um, and I mean, he didn't know nobody knew that they were, it was going to be this, this big, right?

Or did, did they know?

No, they did not know.

Uh, so Crave commissioned this series.

And it wasn't even a given that the US was going to get it.

Uh, but then folks who really enjoyed the books.

Kind of saw on TikTok, saw on social media.

Hey, Canada's getting this show that is based on these books that we love so much.

Where is it for us?

So HBO then ended up getting a distribution deal.

And that's going to be important at a moment, a distribution deal to bring the show to HBO Max.

They did.

We're not involved in making it.

They just gave it an, uh, a means for an American audience to watch it.

Genuinely within two months of when we ended up seeing it.

So a lot of people were caught on the back foot because it wasn't expected that the American audience was going to get to see it at all.

It was going to be just a Canadian show.

Um, so no, no one was ready.

And it, um, it caused a lot of problems in a lot of different ways.

Why?

Why would it, I mean, you would think that that would just be a, a windfall.

Everyone would just be like, thank you.

Uh, yes.

Let me give you my money is because it's, if it's that popular, if it's that huge, everybody's got to be like, now I want to.

Yeah.

Why, why was there any sort of controversy or trouble with HBO?

Jackie, would you believe it was because they underestimated women?

Oh, wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

Uh, yes.

Why, why would you ever make television for women?

Uh, you're making it for 18 to 34 year old men.

Um, exactly.

It turns out, yeah, uh, to quote, loosely, the owner of the comedy club in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

You know why I book all different kinds of comics, Jackie?

Everybody has a job and I want all of their money.

And, uh, and so everybody wants to see whatever they want to see.

And I want to provide that for them so that they could buy drinks at my comedy club.

And I believe that is the way to think about it.

But I think they thought it would be this thing that they released fairly quietly.

And what seemed like a small pocket of folks on the internet would get the thing that they wanted.

And instead it exploded.

And everybody that watched it really loved it, which they should.

It is beautifully made television.

And they started telling.

Hopefully the story is adorable.

Yeah.

It is.

It is.

I mean, the thing is, is okay.

So I, I can see why do you remember that movie that there was, it was the first ever gay romantic comedy.

Uh, movie it with two men.

And I brand them had a bit part in it.

I can't remember.

It was called bros or something.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

And, um, it was almost this.

Because you know, you know, like the whole, I am, uh, not the straightest lady in the world, but pretty straight.

And, um, I, and I like romance novels.

So you would think that I would not be, this is not my point, right?

This is not the thing that I would want to watch.

But it turns out it's so well done.

And we have, they have built this thing where, you know, love is love.

This thing where they, if you ever try to watch Will and Grace again, uh, it's painful.

But it was a stepping stone.

Yeah.

To having people acknowledge that gay people were people.

Exactly.

You know, it's just like they do that with the black community.

You know, you know, and women and gays and everybody that is in a straight white guy, we have to slowly introduce to straight white guys, I guess.

And the rest of us who have to read, who have to learn it because we all grew up not thinking like I didn't, I didn't know anyway.

So that whatever.

So, uh, but to find out that so when I saw heated rivalry last night, the first episode, I was like,

Oh, I'll give it a shot.

It's, uh, because I like historical romances too.

And I usually like sys hat, you know, that's what it is.

That's my jam.

So, uh, but we started their charming.

It's got that same tension between any two people that are attracted to each other.

The chemistry is really good between these two young men, but they're funny about it.

It's like, we play hockey.

We can't tell anyone.

And, but they're.

And one of the young men is such a dick.

That he's just like, yeah, no, we can't tell anybody.

Anyway, I'm going to kiss your face off.

And then they kiss each other's faces off.

And then there's, there's, there's penis action.

You don't see, you see butts.

You don't see dicks.

I don't know if you see dicks later in the season.

You want me to tell you?

Sure.

I don't care.

Full frontal.

Is there full frontal boy stuff?

There isn't.

Uh, but there's a lot of implied bits and mouths.

Lot of.

So much.

So much.

Even in the first episode.

It's just, yeah, it's, there's blow jobs.

So there's blow jobs.

Well, and blow jobs.

Not well.

And, uh, it's a learning curve.

I don't know if you know this about our whole sex rangers.

But anyway, uh, yeah, be patient with yourselves.

It takes some practice.

Yeah, practice makes perfect.

And you know what's fun?

Practice.

Ding, ding.

Anyway, so they underestimated the women.

They did.

They did.

I think that they thought it was going to be a fairly small group of

folks that watched it.

And again, I think straight women are getting a great deal out of it,

which, fun fact, if you take out the dynamic, like the power

of the social of heterosexual relationships and just let people

fall in love.

Still interesting.

It's great.

Still interesting.

So a lot of straight women are getting involved with it.

A lot of gay men are really connecting with it because the books were

initially marketed to them.

So they weren't necessarily reading them.

Um, and then there is actually Catherine van Aaron dog or a wonderful

article.

I think you can get through Vulture, but it's technically a New York

Magazine piece about the genre of straight men reacting to

the heat of rivalry on TikTok and Instagram.

Um, it's a genre.

It is.

Like they're having an experience as well.

Like they're going in not unlike you did, Jackie, being like,

there's no way I'm going to get anything out of this.

And then the further into the season they go, they're really

emotionally invested.

They're kind of asking questions of themselves.

And I think, frankly, they thought like, oh, if this is for women,

then men won't watch it.

And more and more men are watching it.

Some with their partners, some with their friends.

And it's starting a lot of conversations.

I've had multiple conversations with bartenders.

And it just happens to come up like, I'm wearing a heat of rivalry

shirt, a friend's wearing a heat of rivalry shirt.

And like their female coworker would be like, I've been trying to

tell them to watch this show.

And I was like, bring them over here.

Yeah.

And I was the pitch.

So I thought there was one young man I remember.

He was like, I don't really read.

I don't really watch TV, but he's very into video games.

So I was like, what video games do you like?

And we talked about Fallout.

And I was like, what do you like about Fallout?

And he was like the expansive storytelling and like the

relationships with the characters.

And I was like, all right.

So you will get some of that in here.

And I think it's also just like a really interesting conversation

about masculinity.

I was a film minor in college.

And it happened the way that the schedule laid out that

half of my classes were about masculinity and film.

I've watched all the propaganda.

You cannot explain the Godfather to me.

I bring two papers on it.

So to see a message, you know, you than me.

Yeah, they're just like, let me tell you why.

And I was like, you can't tell me shit.

I got an A in both those classes.

I have four older brothers and they will not stop talking to me

about the Godfather and the King of Comedy.

And both of you guys could take a flying leap.

And they weren't made for me.

And I don't like a movie where at the end,

I finally watched the first Godfather.

And at the end of it, I was like, oh, I don't need to see

any more of this.

He's lying to her.

This relationship isn't going to work out.

At the very end of it, he said, don't know.

I'm not going to be that guy.

And then that guy, if you say guy,

then two seconds later.

And I'm like, oh, I don't need to see this.

I get it.

I did have to watch them.

But I got academic credit for it.

So it's fine.

And they're well done.

Beautiful movie movies.

But all of this is to say, I've seen the propaganda

about what men think they're supposed to be

because of the movies that have been made.

So to now see what Jacob Tierney's been able to create.

And not just with heated rivalry.

I think Letter Kenny and Shorzy both also interrogate

masculinity in some really interesting ways.

And like their idea on the show of what good men are

is like a beautiful step forward.

Right.

So I think that's also been really valuable in this conversation.

Like men can be different.

And I think you should consider it.

So that's been really nice to see.

So that's also been a really big part of its explosive growth.

But so one piece that we talked a little bit about yesterday.

I'm also a bookseller part-time.

And we're going to bookstores.

Right.

And the publishers were not prepared for the outsized demand

of these books once the show got so popular.

Because they didn't think that they were going to have to sell

to the American market so that all of the sudden people

are like, there are books.

I want to read them.

And they didn't have any.

So for about a month, I was fielding phone calls

left, right in the center.

We didn't have any.

And we didn't have access to any.

So then when folks kind of got them,

it was this huge opportunity for folks to be like,

they're finally here.

Or we have two copies literally whoever comes in and gets them,

come get them.

You cannot place hold.

You cannot order online.

Just come get it.

It's since the ship has since righted itself.

But it's so rare.

And sometimes it's happening.

The same thing happened with Bridgerton.

Yes.

The same thing happened with Bridgerton.

I remember there were toys for one of the Star Wars

where this happened.

I can't remember which one it was.

But essentially there was like a female toy and then folks

were like, we want it.

Whoever was a merchandising was like, well, we didn't think

they'd want the girl one.

So then they had to figure all that out.

It was right.

It was right.

Yes.

It was right.

So there weren't any right toys because they were like,

people are going to want a toy of the girl.

I can't.

My fury, the fact that there is no scarlet Johansson,

black widow, merch, except for knockoff stuff,

is maddening.

My jacket that I'm wearing is an Ameri,

the gene jacket I'm wearing and my special and last night

is an American son, this jacket.

And it's a character that nobody knows what the hell I'm wearing.

And when I wear my Captain Marvel jacket,

they're like, good Wonder Woman jacket.

I was like, I enjoy Wonder Woman.

But I don't think you understand.

That's not what this is.

This is a Captain Marvel jacket.

And I also have.

And anyway, so, yes.

So the underestimating of

women who want merch or people who want to read a book

that was targeted towards.

Like, because I heard about it's,

it's an entire genre.

There's hockey porn or hockey romance thing.

And being a bookseller,

a lot of it gets recommended to me.

So I read a lot of it.

And typically.

That's great.

You're a good sport.

I don't read everything that's been recommended to me.

I try to be, I'm like,

let me see if I like it.

And in the odd case.

Folks are just like,

normally the grievances,

there's not enough smell in this book.

I have gone back to so many folks who recommended a hockey book to me.

And I'm like,

there's not enough hockey in this book.

It is, it is not for a lack of,

it is not for a lack of desire on my part.

I assure you,

the sex drive is normal,

too excessive,

but there just isn't enough in a lot of those books.

And I think that this is a really nice balance.

And you could tell it's written by someone who knows hockey.

Another one I would recommend in that vein,

if you are interested,

is shoot your shot.

And is written by a woman named Lexi Laflour Brown.

Lexi Laflour Brown is acting

on kind of like book talk,

but her husband is a former NHL player.

He played for the Tampa Bay Lightning.

His name is JT Brown.

He was part of the first all black

wine of players.

Okay.

Replayers on the line.

So a right wing center

and a left wing.

All black.

First team to do it was the Tampa Bay Lightning.

And he was one of those three.

Because there aren't that many black hockey players.

No.

No, it's,

it's been a,

it's been a whitey magoo thing for the most of the time.

For quite some time.

Okay.

It's starting to shift.

But yeah.

Okay.

But yeah.

So her husband is a player.

He has played for a number of teams.

He's now a commentator

for the Seattle Cracket.

And her book is also quite good.

Okay.

But most of them is just like.

Smot.

And they do hockey.

But you don't really hear a whole lot about it.

And I'm like,

I would like someone to know about hockey

if they're going to do it.

I would.

Rachel does.

You're not what she does.

It's, it's,

it's the start of a romance novels I read.

I can't read the American ones

because I know too much about American history.

Yeah.

So it's mostly British ones

because I'm like,

yeah, do whatever you want.

Create a thousand dukes.

Because there aren't a thousand dukes.

But I don't care anymore.

And so.

But.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Okay.

So.

All right.

So the first two books of.

He did rivalry.

Yes.

The first books called He did rivalry.

And the day of the author who wrote is read, you said?

Rachel read.

Yeah.

So the first season of He did rivalry is based on.

He did rivalry,

which is the second book in the series.

And then the secondary couple in the show.

You haven't met them yet.

Scott and Kip.

Their story is in game changers,

which is the first one.

Okay.

Oh, that's the first one.

Yeah.

So the second season is based on the second Shane and Ilya book

in that series called the long game.

It's books.

Okay.

And then.

And then.

We're going to be getting a third Shane and Ilya book,

which we weren't previously,

but capitalism doing what it does.

We're getting more Shane and Ilya.

That book is.

We're hope.

Yeah.

At the moment.

It's called Unrivaled.

We were originally going to get it this September.

And then Rachel read.

Came out a couple of weeks ago and said.

I need more time for a couple of different reasons.

One, she did not be.

She did not expect to get swept up into kind of the media

firestorm popularity of this show.

She was highly involved with.

And it getting made, which I think is really lovely.

Oh, that's great.

And they brought her along for a lot of like the press

opportunities and things like that and her like it would

not happen without her, which I love.

But A.

She's very busy, but also B.

She deals with chronic illness.

She has Parkinson's and a lot of that is kind of

kind of hindering her ability to write both in terms of

time, but also just physically.

It's wearing on her a great deal.

So they wanted to crank something out.

And she has Parkinson's.

And then.

She started to crank something out.

And she has Parkinson's.

And she hadn't planned it.

So give her, give her the time.

Like, yeah, like it's, I think it's just, it's a hard time

from a time perspective, but also just she's like,

I need to be able to physically do it.

And I can't write.

Right.

Right.

And there's six books.

Why don't you just reread them?

Enjoy that.

You'd like yourself out.

Or reheat the rivalry, which is the online parlance

for watching the show.

It holds up.

I've reheated it like four or five times.

All right.

There you go.

And I, yeah.

And or read something else.

It'll be fine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The next book now is coming out in October of 27.

So you've got to be a kind of the same time that's fidget

spinster.

It might be the same time as fidget spinster.

What?

If I get it out in time.

Yes.

So that is, that's a push for me.

Everybody should go to your on the Marfo's Instagram.

And then you'll know, you'll know things.

Okay.

Yes, I'm just getting that out there.

I love that.

It's always so much.

Right.

Right.

Because you only have like 10 minutes left to talk to you about hockey.

So what else?

What else would you like to know?

Is there anything you're curious about?

Um.

Are there any gay hockey players?

No.

Openly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

NHL.

No.

Okay.

The ones we know are retired.

Oh.

Okay.

Or had left the league.

Okay.

There are minor league players.

Um.

There.

I think they're like a couple minor league players who, again,

after they retired, hockey is an interesting ecosystem because even after you retire,

you still stand the possibility of being very tied up in hockey.

So you can coach.

You can do commentary.

All right.

You can coach in the feeder leagues like the AHL or ECHL and a number of those other things.

So there's even, there's still reason to hide it.

Exactly.

Exactly.

So we're hoping that some of this, and some of the actors on the show have been really

open about like, if you liked this show and you like the world where you're allowed to

see this, the NHL should make an environment where it is okay for folks to be able to come

out.

And it's been very interesting to me because Gary Bettman, the commissioner of the NHL,

unpopular for any number of reasons.

And he's earned it.

But he got asked if he had watched you to rivalry.

And he was like, oh, yeah, we like, I've watched it.

We really love it.

And the league has not done a whole lot to integrate into it, which is probably good because

they are straight up the villain in the long game.

So the fact that he's very effusive about it lets me know that no one in his office has read

the books.

Or he's lied.

Or he has watched the TV show.

Yeah.

He's just like, of course, I've watched it.

Well, hey, buddy, what did you think about this?

And you know, because there's, I mean, and you alluded to it when we were talking to about

it last night about the Russian kid.

Yeah.

And his family issues.

The fact that his family keeps calling asking for money.

And his brother seems to be a real piece of work.

And I'm not, yeah, I'm not looking forward.

And, and so that's, that's fascinating to me.

Because, yeah, the fact that there is that it's a whole story.

Yeah.

So I'm very curious to see how the league will adapt to something like this because there was

a controversy with the league a couple years ago.

So they have an initiative called You Can Play.

Where theoretically, the league is open to folks who are queer.

They want them as fans.

They, again, in theory, want them as players.

And they had also introduced Pride tape for sticks.

So players tape their sticks.

It's a means of like protecting your hands and also kind of like giving friction to allow the puck to go where it needs to go.

And Pride tape is what it sounds like.

It is rainbow tape.

And they had had it in the league for a while.

Several players had used it.

They used it really prominently on Pride nights.

And then they banned it.

And there wasn't only a super clear reason why that was.

But a lot of fans kind of gotten an uproar.

A lot of players got an uproar.

And they ended up bringing it back.

To me, it really just felt like we didn't think anyone was going to notice.

We're so sorry.

Right.

Yeah.

And then even as all of this is happening, USA hockey, which is the governing body for things like the Olympics,

banned trans players.

While the uproar about,

he derivalry is happening.

But again, it was very under the radar that didn't expect folks to go.

So there's this real interesting incongruity between the opportunity to bring in so many of these fans that are now like,

I want to watch more hockey and the NHL and USA hockey being like,

we're going to make it look like we don't want to hear for sure.

And how many trans hockey players are there?

Three.

There aren't there aren't many.

But one of them is actually,

and Harrison Brown,

he wrote a book called Let Us Play with a sister who's a journalist about the nature of trans individuals and sports.

Harrison was a minor league hockey player,

who has gotten a couple awards in the minor league hockey league,

and then ended up playing a bit role in he deriver later in the season.

So he's on the show.

And it's,

so the world of the show is inclusive of that.

And one would hope that like the wider leagues would be as well.

Well, did he make the team?

Like, is he, he's clearly a good enough hockey player?

Harrison, he made the, yeah,

to make the, to make the,

the men's junior league or the men's,

yeah, junior diversity team.

I mean,

So he won it pre-transition.

So he played.

Okay.

Pre-transition in one, two cups kind of announced that

he was trans and then delayed medical transition to play for another season and then they won again.

So has not gotten to do that post transition.

Oh, and again, that's just,

so she's so she wants to essentially try out for the women's team.

I don't know what the very person is still playing.

I'm not sure.

I think, I think he since like largely retired and now doing more like advocacy work and acting.

Okay.

But yeah, it's,

it's just one of those things where it's like,

Hey, I could have done this.

They would have.

Yeah, and things are like,

Nope.

You can't do this.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Okay.

It's, yeah.

There was in the Olympics episode from,

from about a year or so ago when the Summer Olympics came out.

I did an Olympics episode of the Dork Forest.

And I learned about the role of women throughout the Olympics,

because this woman had written a book,

name, gone,

dorked them still there.

Very much the dragon riders of Perrin.

I can remember the name of your dragon.

Anyway,

um,

but she was explaining that a lot of sports in the Olympics start out as Cohen.

Mm-hmm.

And then the woman wins.

Mm-hmm.

And then they split them into men's and women's.

And I was like,

are you giving me,

and she's like,

Oh, no, they're going to take their ball and go play alone.

Uh, they're going to be mad that a girl beat them.

And then they're going to go,

we're just going to have boys play now.

And then you go make a team with girls.

Well,

and there are a couple ways that that happens because they will either do that

or then police what constitutes female.

Uh, so there's a fantastic book called the other Olympians that talks a little bit about the history of trans athletes,

specifically in track and field,

but it applies to many other sports.

Um,

and they talk a little bit about that is the nature of kind of gender policing in sports,

which we still see,

but goes all the way back to the Genesis of the modern Olympics,

and they were doing it the whole time.

Germany was involved a bunch as you might expect.

The US was involved a lot as you might not expect,

but show it if you've read a book.

So,

and they're living in today.

Exactly.

So I can't believe they're doing that.

I was like,

it's baked into the process.

Like we love the Olympics for the page entry,

but wow,

there's a lot of shitty people involved in making it happen.

Uh,

it's like,

it's like FIFA,

you know,

I was like,

we're just trying to,

some people just want to watch and play soccer,

uh, football, right?

And, uh,

everybody else is like,

yeah, but how can you wear

Emirates on your jersey?

You know,

and we turned this into a cash cow.

And,

and then it turns into something else entirely.

So I don't really,

I don't really understand the world of professional sports,

except for at the level of

fandom, right?

Because I,

because I know that there is a great deal of business behind it.

There was some Lakers.

There was like some fake Lakers,

uh, TV show.

There was a TV show that was, uh,

supposedly about the,

uh,

the Lakers,

but it was called something else.

And it was a woman becomes the running point.

Running point.

Running point.

Yeah.

That sounds right.

Yeah.

And I watched like three or four episodes,

but, um,

sometimes I'm on the road and things just,

uh, yeah.

I lose them.

I did finish it.

I liked it.

Um,

well, good.

I used to pick up air these dinner so far.

I didn't expect to say

楚 Hanks was good in the show,

but I think they figured out the thing

that he's good at.

And built it around him.

And he did great.

Um.

They,

they,

eighths families.

I have a lot to say it.

But they're five minutes.

I will not take it on that.

They, um,

but yeah.

Chatlate, Chatlate strikes and is different

from some of the other Hanks,

um,

and then they're like, he's acting and I was like,

well, why's he doing that?

But then I was like, oh, they built this so he could succeed.

Actually, well done, everybody involved,

because I think he had had too much more than what he did.

Probably not gonna happen.

Billy Carter, little Billy Carter issue.

That's Jimmy Carter's brother.

A little, a little.

Like, they got the difference between Colin and Chet.

They're very different.

They're very different.

They are very different.

And I only know Colin.

I don't know Colin, but I only know that name

because he hosted something and introduced me

and was psyched about the name of this podcast,

the Dork Forest.

He was like, that's kind of the greatest name

of a podcast ever.

I was like, yeah, this.

Thanks.

Thanks, Colin.

Thanks, Colin, thanks.

Maybe I should put that on the website.

So I don't know that he would remember that.

So it would feel weird if he came to me and said,

when did I say that?

I was like, well, there was a weird theater event.

You had to introduce me and it was something

you said in passing that I've engraved in my brain

because your Tom Hanks's son.

Anyway, I have taken, I say go over.

What would you like?

So he did rivalry, a yes, books and TV show.

Yes, but not the audio books.

Not the audio books.

I've been told the narrators are not great.

OK, and I had several people be like,

I did not enjoy the audio book experience.

So I'm going to ask you to use the words where you can.

Yeah, you can.

And the thing is, is the books, they

look like they're about 220 to 280 pages.

And they work quickly.

They do.

So.

Right.

And I watched that first episode.

And if they don't move quickly, I would be very surprised.

So, and then if somebody wanted to start watching hockey,

would you recommend college or Olympics or professional?

You can go back and watch the Olympic replays

if you have access to a peacock account.

I think being able to start with like national sports is nice.

OK.

If you're team USA, you'll have to reckon with a couple of things.

Oh, we didn't talk about that.

You want to talk about that?

Sure, sure.

What, why were they like that?

Can you tell?

Besides the fact that they're 19-year-old douche-noses, I mean.

So, I looked into it a little bit

because I was very curious about this.

So, for those on the back, the, so the gold medal game

for the Olympics this year, Milano Cortina,

was between the US and Canada.

Being from Canada, in both cases, yes,

so the men and the women.

Yeah, the women played, I believe, the Saturday and one.

And it was this massive deal.

And it was really like, everybody was pleased and happy

and there was joy in the land.

Yeah, and it was a really just nice affirmation

of like investing in women's sports gets you beautiful results,

both in terms of just like high athletic achievement,

advancement of the sport and folks being interested in it.

So, the women won theirs first.

And then the men played the following day.

I believe it was the Sunday.

It was within two days.

It was the last day of the Olympic.

So, the US men ended up winning, which was difficult for me,

personally, so much so that I was like,

I have to take a sad hockey nap.

Not the first one I've taken in my life,

but this one, like, caught real bad.

Because you know those players better,

or the men's teams better?

I know the men's teams better, I mean.

Yeah, I've had longer to like get to know them

and some of them have played at multiple Olympics.

Very invested in both.

And yeah, it was just, I think the nature of it too,

was like, because it was like a shootout goal,

and it was like a very much a chance thing.

Right.

So, just like the nature of how the game ended

felt a little bit differently.

So, Team USA is celebrating,

and they did this beautiful thing

where there was a young man named Johnny Goodrow,

who was playing for Columbus,

and it was tragically killed,

along with his brother, in a car accident a couple years ago.

And a lot of the young men on the US team

came up playing with him.

He would have been on that Olympic team

had he not gotten in that accident

and passed pretty maturely,

so they brought his jersey out as part of the celebration.

When they took the team photo, his jersey was in it,

and then they brought his kids into the photo.

And it was this very beautiful moment,

where it was just like men being cool,

and like standing up for their friend,

and making sure that a friend that should have been there

was included.

Wonderful moment.

And then within an hour, two hours of that happening,

they broke it.

We got locker room footage of FBI director,

Cash Patel, partying with them,

bringing President Donald Trump in on a FaceTime,

where Donald Trump essentially says,

and he's like, I would love to have you out at the White House,

and I guess I have to invite the women too,

and the men in the video, I'll just laugh.

And that magic is broken,

because there had been so much over the last several weeks

of the team supporting each other,

the women going to see the men,

the men going to see the women,

and there was this idea that they were treating each other

as equals, so then see in that private moment

when it was just them,

no one fight back against that.

It was immensely disappointing.

So they then had to deal with the fallout of that.

I talked to a lot of folks that were like,

why didn't anybody issue a statement or apologize?

To which I would say,

you don't actually want them to say they're sorry.

You want them to be sorry,

and most of them are not sorry.

So I'm glad that ones who didn't believe it,

at least they didn't do theater.

Yes, exactly.

I've seen many of them in commercials,

they're not actors,

and you don't want them to try.

So there was then a very,

what could have been like a contentious moment,

ended up working out really nicely on Saturday Night Live,

involving Conor's story,

who plays Ilya Rosenoff on SNL.

So we knew from like some press reports

that Quinn Hughes and his brother, Jack,

two of the brothers on the US team

who were kind of considered like the high level game clinchers

were gonna be on SNL.

And there were a lot of these calls for like,

what is Conor's story gonna do with that?

He is advocating for more inclusive NHL,

and now this has kind of happened on this episode.

He should refuse.

He should drop out to which I would say,

not his responsibility.

He has a moment.

His job.

Yeah.

Meteoric popularity wanted to do SNL,

got the opportunity to do so.

It's not.

He is an actor.

Exactly.

It's not for him to deal with.

So what ended up happening on that shows

in the opening monologue,

the men come out, he kind of like asked some questions,

they do some back and forth about like,

oh, we haven't watched the show,

and then asked some questions about hockey

that can also kind of be interpreted as a new window

about sex.

And he's like, well, yeah, we do that.

And it's like the notable one was like,

oh, I got my teeth knocked out.

It's like, did you?

And he's like, metaphorically, which is hilarious.

So then they're just like, oh, well,

he's like, oh, I would have loved it

if you watched the show.

And then two of the women come out,

Hillary Knight and Megan Keller.

And they're like, oh, we watched it.

So then you get to have a conversation with the women.

And the difference in crowd response

to when Quinn and Jack Hughes come out,

Tepid, I mean, you're excited

because it's like Olympic medalist,

but then the women come out and it blows the roof off.

Like, that's exactly what needed to happen.

And he got to engage with all four of them.

The women got the spotlight that they earned

and they said something to the effect of,

oh, well, we knew that we were coming

so we figured we'd bring the boys along too,

which again, massive response as should have happened.

So it ended up kind of showing them kind of like,

here's what you did.

Like, this is the recession that you created for yourself.

Apparently in the rehearsal,

there was like a more audible negative response

and they're like,

Quinn Hughes looked really disturbed by that.

Quinn Hughes just looks like that.

He always looks like he's been haunted.

He just has this middle stare, like a ghost is speaking to him.

And the jokes in Milano were just like,

it's Italian ghosts.

He can't understand them.

No wonder he looks good.

So I was like, why do you look like that?

I'm like, guys, it's just his face.

Anyway, we kind of got that moment of like,

yeah, no, this is the reception

that you created for yourselves

and it was really nice squad.

Right.

And it'd be cool if they'd learned from that,

but they are young white men.

So maybe that's probably not, although.

And I, because you know, they left to go eat McDonald's

over at McTrump.

So, although not everybody went,

including Jake Gensel from the Tampa Bay Lightning.

So, okay, yeah.

All right.

So some of the men's hockey players did not go?

Yeah.

So five, I think did not go to the White House

and then an additional several

did not go to the state of the union,

but did go to the visit.

There's, it's documented.

You can look it up if you'd like.

You could look it up if you need to know

who didn't and who didn't, whatever.

But all of this is to say,

if you are interested in hockey

and kind of want to get involved in it,

go back and watch the replays of the Olympic matches,

not just the ones at the U.S. is in,

any of the ones you'd like,

because there's wonderful hockey being played in Fulvakia

and Czechia and a number of other countries

have very strong teams.

Okay.

And then the advice that I have actually taken,

they make a lot of kids books that explain sports.

My niece who is almost two and thinks she can read,

but cannot actually has one on hockey.

She has one on basketball.

And like it explains it in a very granular way

that if you don't know anything about it,

it's ostensibly explaining it to a child,

but it's going to help you too.

So do not be afraid of that.

I read a series of books when I was in Australia,

when I came back from Australia,

because I really liked Australian rules football.

Yeah.

But I didn't understand how it went.

So I read, there's a series called Specky McGee,

and it's about a kid who wants to be an AFL pro,

but he is, and he's a really good jumper,

because he makes spectacular jumps.

That's why they call him Specky.

Okay.

Because Australia will shorten a word.

As well hockey players.

Yeah.

Yeah, everybody.

So everybody has a nickname.

And in fact, this is like my one major grievance about,

even rivalry is that they call the players by their full names.

I'm like, nobody's doing that.

Like no one's calling Hollander Hollander.

He is going to be Holly.

He will be Halls.

Maybe Shanner.

I feel like he'd probably be a Shanner.

They call Rose enough, Rose enough.

That's not going to happen.

He's going to be a Roser, or he's going to be a Holly.

Rosie, I think Rosie's probably the one for it.

But once I realized that, I was like, oh no.

Yeah, to fix this.

So, Jacob Chirney, Jacob Chirney,

and I know you're writing season two right now.

And the highly unlikely event that you were listening

to this podcast, I beg of you, use their nicknames.

It's very important.

You know this.

You know this.

You know this.

You know this.

I like Jonesy.

You know.

Rangers, this has been a delightful episode of The Dork Forest.

I hope you were delighted.

I was delighted.

I'm a Marfo.

Were you delighted?

So delighted.

I've been waiting for someone to let me app

about you to write a word for an hour.

What a pleasure.

It's at Marfo.

AMMA, M-A-R, so many amps.

AMMA, M-A-R-F-O, dot com slash comedy,

and at I'm a Marfo on Instagram and YouTube.

She's going to be a Traverse City Michigan in April

for their comedy festival next month,

and fidget spinster.

Look for it in the fall.

Thank you so much for doing the show.

And Rangers, you know the rules out there.

Take care of each other.

My hat, my hat, my hat.

They're dancing around my hat.

My hat, my hat, my hat.

Well, what do you think of that?

If it looks like a Mexican hat dance,

and it sounds like a Mexican hat dance,

it's most likely a Mexican hat dance.

So take off your hat and let's dance.

Yay!

Oh my god.

Why don't we just call that as the end of the show?