Apple’s iPhone Duo, Meta’s Muse AI Agent, Anthropic Researcher Quits Over AI Doom | Diet TBPN

0:00Well, Apple has announced the iPhone Duo, their foldable phone, separately. Big question. Right away. How is this going to impact screen time? Does your screen time go twice as fast? Yeah. Because you're actually locked in on two screens. Should you do pixel-adjusted screen time too? If you're watching a laptop versus an Apple watch, if I spend an hour in Apple Watch, is that like 15 minutes on the laptop? On the triple monitor setup? Yeah. You're getting triple the screen time? The AirPods with the cameras. They didn't do that. They didn't do that. They haven't announced those. I don't think they're going to. Not yet. But when that comes, that could potentially help you add to your screen time by tracking screens out in the real world that you're seeing. True. And aren't getting picked up. True. Eventually, it's going to be 24-7 screen time. Everyone's looking at a screen. Everywhere. There's our screen everywhere. You're looking at the windshield of your car. That's the screen. Can we pull up some real pictures of the Duo? Here it is. Here it is. So, in this video, there is no crease.

1:01I'm sure the YouTube tech reviewers will be hunting in all different lighting for creases. But it feels like Apple waited long enough to avoid a crease whatsoever. So you will get no crease in your eyes. That is crazy. Sit in there. Boom. It's cool. I think this is going to sell like hawk eggs. I think people are ready to spend. It's going to be like 2 grand, maybe 3 grand when you max it out. I think the Apple buyer, the Apple fanboy, is ready for something that actually is a flex beyond. Like a slight upgrade. You paid 30% more for the pro. This says you pulled out the big one. Yes. You dropped two. Well, and that's been the thing. The relative to how much value you get out of a phone. Yeah, you've got a phone. The phones have always been incredibly cheap. Yeah. Even the highest price. Yeah, you spend more time on your phone than you do in your car. And your car is 10 times the price of your phone always. Like, if not more. And so, I think this will sell very well. It will be interesting to see if any new apps come from this. If people need to redesign stuff. Like, we're having Mikey from Suno on the show later today.

2:03And Suno has an app that's really full featured for iPhone. You can make songs. You can scroll a feed of other people's songs. But you do have to pop over to desktop if you want to get into their composer and actually deconstruct the song. And shift around different pieces of the song. And then you get a sort of garage band interface. Even using a lot of normal iPhone apps on iPads. It usually just doesn't feel quite right. Scrolling. So, I think there'll be a couple UI UX opportunities, challenges. Both interesting little bezel there where you can see the screen is curved. But it's on a blocked out, squared off edge there in the center. Two cameras in the back, one on the front. Leaving room for the iPhone Duo Pro with five cameras or something like that. Yeah, really shows that the phone seems to be at least the iPhone is certainly in its final form. This feels like the biggest step forward in a long time.

3:05And yet it does absolutely nothing new for you. A rave review. Until the new smartphone. No, it's like new paper. It's full of it. It's moderately exciting because we're all, it's moderately exciting because everyone's addicted to their phone. It's like cool, new screen. But it does nothing new for you. It doesn't move humanity forward anyway at all. Jordi, you're going to be able to watch two reels at once. And they're both going to be vertical. You think so? Yeah, what do you mean? From the demo that I saw, it looked like you put the video up top and then I messaged her. Well, that's because that was the horizontal video. I don't think you'll be able to open two copies of Instagram at the same time. No, I think it'll be more like the iPad OS where you can have different windows. So you think you'll be able to do YouTube shorts and Instagram reels side by side? Ideally, hopefully. Ideally. Brainwrought, final boss over here once to do it. And then you can have the third one on the back. It's exciting to see John Turner's get a big win. Like early.

4:05Like first thing as the CEO, first major, you know, Apple event. And it's an entirely new product, the foldable phone, something that's been rumored for years. They didn't team up just to do a minor interview. Mac Mini, for example. Exactly. Yeah, it's exciting that he got to come out strong with this. Yeah. And it's also less of a risk than the Apple Vision Pro. If they'd thrown him there, then he'd be remembered. Oh, his first thing was sort of a flop. Yeah, I think this is going to be a hit. Even the salesman. I think it's going to sell very well. I think a lot of people are going to buy him for a variety of reasons. But I think it's just a good way to kick off a really strong decade-long run. Hopefully four decades. Couldn't make it to 95 in the seat. But Ternis, I think he got it what it takes. I want to see Ternis running this place. So you're 100% getting to do it? Yeah, I think I'll get it. I'll need to feel how it feels my hand. But at one point, I was considering carrying an iPad Mini

5:06as my daily driver, because I was like, so they come with Wi-Fi. Six, eight. Six, eight. Six, eight. So I have big pockets. And so I would actually fit in my pocket. And I don't like the phone feature of the phone. I don't like getting phone calls. So you lose that because it doesn't have cellular connections. So it doesn't have a foot, so you can never call me. And it's not like you need a phone number for anything else besides calls, like logging into pretty much any service. Yeah, you can do two-factor on an actual authentication app. I think you can get by. You might need to have a Mac Mini hooked up somewhere that has a phone number attached to it that can route you to factor codes or something. But it did seem doable. Or you know, you just check your phone, their actual phone, with the phone number at home later. But every day, you just have this iPad Mini that you pull out. And it has a cellular connection. I don't know that it can actually get phone calls. But it has a cellular connection. So you can get data while you're out and about.

6:06So you can be out in the world and scroll real data. What else do you need? You don't need to make a phone. Big data. Yeah, I mean, it really comes down to look. The phone is lighter than her. It's not lighter. It's not thinner. It is probably faster. It's bigger. This is the opposite of your meme. Typically they come out and they say, it's lighter than her faster than the thinner or faster. Fit thinner or faster. 12 times. It's the best iPhone ever. This is actually a different direction. This is a good one. Is this a response to your joke? Here's something. Yeah. Would you rather search, work, and iMessage, or be able to get the duo? Search, work, and iMessage? What do you want? Search, and iMessage. Yeah. Oh, you want that to work. Yeah. Personally, I would be excited about functional features of the core software that I use with the iPhone. Among, you know, many other things. But Kate over on X says, mentally ready for my iPhone to start being slow, laggy, and having a bad battery. You have that to look forward to.

7:06Absolutely. So did they also updated, like, the normal iPhone? Is that right? Did you watch a little bit of the earlier keynote? Yeah, I mean, there was a little bit of the thinner. That one is thinner, lighter, faster, better, stronger, all the different things. They updated Apple and Tulled and Spongebob. Oh, yeah. There was like, have they haven't launched it yet? I thought this was the launch of the series. Like, it's actually going to go out now. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. This was in the launch video. And also the old iPhone or not the old iPhone, but the new normal iPhone, 18, they were like, oh, the battery is like much better. So all those things that Jordi, they like said about the new iPhone. I don't know. It'll be interesting. I'm excited to get it in hand to see how it works. I don't... It might be too much to open that thing up. I'm thinking like, it's pretty easy just to like... No, for you, it's great. It's great because you're such a newspaper guy. I do like a newspaper. Put your feet up on the desk and fold your phone open. I'm scrolling. Yeah. Something that might make sense. I don't know. I was reflecting on Steve Jobs.

8:06I saw a viral video about Steve Jobs predicting ChatshipyT in 1985. And the video is incredible because he arrives to this talk. He's giving a talk at a university on the future. It's just Steve Jobs, the future of 1985. And he arrives on a helicopter with an entourage. And they all get out of this helicopter and they go into this. It's amazing. It's amazing. I'm really... But more of a... Where is it? King in the castle. King in the castle. Because the video kind of takes place in the castle. Because you got to watch Steve Jobs in 1985. Predict modern AI pretty well. And I read this. I became immensely jealous. And... I think I would have enjoyed that a great deal. And... So Paz, he's... The lead in to this. He's saying, I'll just read the transcript. He says, did you know that Alexander the Great's Tudor for 14 years was Aristotle.

9:08When Alexander the Great had a question, he would just go to Aristotle. I think we can play the clip from the beginning now. Who Alexander the Great's Tudor was for about 14 years? Aristotle. And I read this. I became immensely jealous. And... I think I would have enjoyed that a great deal. And... And... Through the miracle of the printed page, I can at least read what Aristotle wrote without an intermediary. And maybe if there's a professor, they can add to that. But at least I can go directly to the source material. And that is, of course, the foundation upon which our western civilization is built. Losing the printing process. But I can't ask Aristotle a question. I mean, I can't, I won't get an answer. And so... My... Perfect. My time's out. My mom is that, in our lifetimes, we can make a tool of a new kind, of an interactive kind. And so my hope is someday, when the next Aristotle is alive,

10:12we can capture the underlying world view of that Aristotle in a computer. And someday, some student will be able to not only read the words Aristotle wrote, but ask Aristotle a question. And get an answer. And that's what I hope that we can do. So crazy that he's just like, we gotta... We gotta compress all the data down and be able to give it a conversational interface. Large language models with a simple interface that anyone can use. It's a crazy, crazy prediction 40, 40 something years ago. Steve Jobs is probably the most famous techno optimist, the most successful techno optimist. The bicycle for the mind, quote, that one continues to hit constantly. But, you can see his excitement every time he gives a keynote. He'll just be on stage like Giddily testing GarageBand. But his delivery there, too, is something really, really special. I mean, you notice that, right? Where he asks a hypothetical question, then, you know, well, I could ask,

11:15but I wouldn't get an answer. And he kind of like lets the laugh line, kind of land and lets the audience. He is basically the Mark Gurman of CEOs. Mark Gurman is the goat. Yes. Journalist. And the greatest, you know, founder CEOs ever. Yeah, it's just, it's just, it's a really, really cool timing. I think I tried to took you that long to come. Because I thought you were talking about Mark Gurman's comedic timing, which is fantastic, but Mark Gurman's delivery of Apple. Truly, he truly has Apple intelligence and his delivery service. That's true. That's true. So, yeah. I mean, you can see Ben Thompson's called this out a few times. But when Steve Jobs introduces GarageBand, he is just so excited about this product. You can see him in this one video, introducing GarageBand 1.0 with John Mayer, which is really cool. He has John Mayer come out and just like plays some stuff on the guitar. And then, and he's just like chilling there on this computer on this stool,

12:20using this tool. And just doing a live demo. And if you scroll forward about halfway, you'll see John Mayer comes in and plays some songs. Totally, and there you go. It's a British invasion. He's just having fun. And so, you know, with the power of modern LLM, like you can ask, you can ask, you know, an AI version of Steve Jobs, what would he think about AI? I did. And I think the answer is somewhat interesting. He said, probably yes, with very strong opinions about what makes A.I. worth using. That's speculation, but his own words give us a surprisingly good basis for it. In 1985, Jobs Imagine Computers capturing a thinker's underlying ideas so that a student could interact with them. You could actually ask Aristotle a question. He was already enthusiastic about something resembling a central promise of conversational AI. But his enthusiasm would come with three demands in this hypothetical Steve Jobs analysis.

13:25One, you got to give people new abilities, learning, designing, composing, building, would probably excite him most. Two, you have to make it effortless. I'd expect him to push for AI that understands what you want with minimal instruction. And three, you have to make something excellent. I suspect he'd value A.I.'s ability to help someone realize an original vision much more. And then it's ability to produce enormous quantities of generic content. He would be anti-slop, but pro-A.I. Aristotle also had an interesting AI take in this imagined LLM version of Aristotle. He'd care more about what AI does to our character than how intelligent becomes. The conclusion of this is Aristotle would favor AI as an instrument of human fulfill of flourishing, while resisting the idea that a life requiring less human effort is automatically a better life. You must continue to create, you must continue to work, you will be unsatisfied if the creates more than you consume. Yeah, exactly. It seems pretty clear that Steve Jobs would be excited about AI or some form of AI,

14:29but what would the reaction to that be in the modern era? Because I tend to think that there would have been the natural cycle of reaction because of there's a whole host of things, political polarization, economic stagnation, wealth inequality, negativity bias, and social media. There's so many different incentives that the desire, the impetus to tear someone down is unavoidable. And so I think we would be in this weird era where a lot of people would be excited about that particular vision for AI, and yet there would still be viral videos complaining about the latest Steve Jobs keynote. What do you think? Because you've called for the Steve Jobs of AI, someone who's an optimist, someone who talks about empowering humanity, focus on human flourishing, agrees with the Aristotelian philosophy around AI. But what would the actual reaction be? Is it actually a panacea or would it fall by the wayside?

15:29Like all other attempts at positivity seem to have fallen by the wayside? I've come around to the technology itself being fundamentally scary, even though it's very cool. And then you factor that in with certain actors that are trying to position it as even more scary, maybe it is inherently. And I think even if we still had Steve with us, so it would still be a mess, and he might be nicely counter-positioned, but it doesn't stop other people from, you know. Maybe not. Poisoning. Maybe not, maybe not. Poisoning the discourse. What do these p-dume would be? Over under 10%. 1%. Probably. He seems like a 1% guy. He's the 1%. Wall Street Journal, they didn't talk about math. It made it to the digital version, didn't make it into the paper. Navier Stokes did not make the paper edition of the Wall Street Journal, but Meta and their new personal A.A. agent did, it's right here.

16:29Meta launches the absolute state of traditional media. Hey, this is Meta. Probably it's more profitable as a business perspective, right? What are you going to do, sell math theories? Navier Stokes was a $1 million price. You don't think Alex Wang can pull a million bucks on this? This could be a trillion dollar price. They haven't monetized it yet, but they got to put ads in this thing. And will they do agent to commerce? What will they do? We were very excited talking to SuperNator yesterday about AGI for small businesses, for folks who run ads on Meta. I still love that idea, but they're going in a different direction. They're doing personal, super intelligence. Zach's been talking about this for a year at least. He's put out a lengthy blog post about how he wants A.I. to diffuse, how he wants everyone to have A.I. And now everyone does, with the Meta Muse app that's a separate app that you get that will book restaurants for you.

17:31The Wall Street Journal has a little bit of a story here. Meta platforms is betting that making A.I. agents easy to use will get mainstream consumers to start adopting them in their daily lives. The company on Tuesday announced a new personal A.I. agent that can buy goods online. I think they partner with Stripe on Link. So I don't know if that just means that when Link is enabled on a particular checkout, it'll be a little bit smoother. Or if it's like it's going to try and steer you towards things that are linked. I can respond to emails. So do you have to link it to your Gmail, I guess, to get that working? And complete other tasks, users authorize you to do for them. The agent called Muse is accessible via dedicated app. Users operate the agent by conversing with it like a typical chatbot and can choose their own names for it. I saw some really funny ones. Tyler called his mark. I saw someone else that's...

18:31Someone gave it a really funny name. Like they said, you can pick one. And then the name of the agent was just you can pick one or something like that. A bunch of funny hallucinations always happens with these products. Everyone's going to have fun with them. The new tool is met as latest attempt to monetize its massive A.I. investments, which are expected to top $130 billion this year. The A.I. agent is free to access for most of what people need and has two tiers of subscription plans for power users. $100 a month and $20 a month. Anthropic and OpenAI have quickly built multi-billion-dollar businesses around agents capable of performing complex computer tasks. But most of that usage is driven by software coding or other business applications, consumer adoption of technology lags behind offering metapult and other companies potential for catching up. The fact that we've given such a powerful technology in a package that is going to be really digestible for the product is one of the things that will set us apart from lots of other agentic products. Meta's A.I. chief Alex Wang said in an interview.

19:32Ben Thompson was raving about the fact that it gives you a pretty powerful VM, eight gigs of memory and eight gigs of storage that is yours, sequestered, and they're also implementing a lot of the security features that they have done with WhatsApp where there's end to end encryption. Yeah, they got Moxie pulled into it. Apparently. It's really cool. Moxie is a legend. So great on the recruiting front. Everyone loves Signal and great team there. Yeah, the question is how it sounds like if they're actually giving every user computer. VM, but yeah, it's like virtualized. But yeah, but the cost is going to probably be pretty significant. So the VM most likely spins up when you use it and then take it down when you're not using it. So the actual compute hours that are associated to anyone but a power user. And of course, very quickly you can wind up spending $20 or $100 and that's enough to just pay for a virtual machine.

20:35You can go and rent a true virtual machine to host your website and digital ocean for $20. So Kaz, the CEO of Open Door, went to Axon said posted a screenshot of him asking Meta AI in WhatsApp. And he said, please make WhatsApp the main interface for these things Alex Wang, please. And he just says, how do I use Muse? And Meta AI responds, Muse is a free AI assistant from Anthropic. You can use it on the web on mobile or through their API. Yeah. Go to claw.ai, create an account, log in. So I'm looking at this post. I'm trying to find why is nobody talking about how Meta AI thinks that Muse is a product from Anthropic and is telling people to go log in there. That is weird that it would hallucinate that Muse is from Anthropic because there's not even any connection between those. It's not like Anthropic ever had a product called Muse that I know of. Very odd. But Meta AI of course is running an older LLM. And then I believe you get you still get thrown into a LLM model. I think when you're on Instagram, if you wind up in an LLM chat.

21:36And so there's going to need to be unification around all of these different products. And they're going to need to eventually talk to all the same models. But of course, there's like scaling and all sorts of different issues that you need. Because some of these products that they've gotten to scale are pretty significant. Even if they're not like the most talked about when you are a hyper-scaler with billions of users and you've vended LLM into something like you've deployed that at scale. It's doing a lot. And it's like the new Gemini 3.7 Flash, bunch of great reviews, great benchmarks on things. But they can't just stuff that Google search on day one. They have to actually scale it up. The question I have is does this seem like this was something they were working on prior to instinct gaining traction or is this an instinct clone? I saw one post that was saying that rumor that they tried to buy it would make sense. Our for Rock says there's a rumor going around that meta and others made a 10 figure offer for instinct.

22:40That's a crazy valuation for one year old company, something like that. Instinct turned it down. Now meta has launched news. And that's literally what the post is. Now meta has launched news and now the timeline is reacting. It'll be a big deal. Sounds familiar. Yes, meta was able to win stories. How did they do that? They didn't win by launching a Snapchat clone as a separate app. They won by putting it in Instagram, which already had the install base. And so if mues works its way into Instagram, which a lot of people do use, it'll probably get a lot of adoption. The separate app, it's a little bit trickier. Now the threads playbook worked. They routed a lot of people to their threads shows up on Instagram. It has an advertising surface area. It's pulled over. What are they at? A couple hundred million. Hundreds of millions. M.I.U.s and again it's hard to fully understand the value of that because they're counting somebody who clicked through clickbait on Instagram.

23:42Yeah, there's that. And then also, they say they're a political bus. There's a robust like real community of pure threads users. The other thing that I think about is like meta has the advantage of being able to when you open all their apps, just put a huge billboard, they make add inventory just for themselves. Yeah, with the red ants, the specs where you open around, that's facts. Sorry, sorry. Sorry. Just a little, a little slip there. But when you opened Instagram in Q4, it's like buy some of our, you know, classes. Right. And so I would expect, I don't think they're going to do that until M.U.s has like, Yeah, they'll get the free adopters on and figure out all the kinks and stuff. Growing Daniel, coming in. John Schew says meta has been working on M.U.s for almost a year now. You have to believe that that's true. The man of acquisition ties into that, the zuck messaging around personal super intelligence. I mean, even when we interviewed him a year ago, we were asking about, Oh, am I going to be able to use your AI to actually buy, if I see a pair of shoes, while I'd be able to just buy it.

24:42And he was kind of like, I'm not ready to announce that yet. But it was very clear that that's where this was going. So I don't think it's an instant clone. I think it will compete with instinct. And I think it's tricky because instinct is pretty early. And they are going up against a big company that's been investing and has a lot of resources to go after this very, very hard at the same time. Consumers come to meta to be entertained. M.U.s feels like a product for productivity. And I'm not sure that people will put them in the same buckets. It's very unclear. At the same time, people do a lot of shopping on Instagram, basically, just scrolling. Really? Oh, for sure. Not actually checking. Are you joking? Come on. I think this was the best thing. No, no, no. It's like the most dominant shopping app of the time that the business isn't as... But particularly, people will go there and not just search things, but just casually scroll and linger over things so that they get retargeted. Visit websites and then have the ads come to them.

25:45And so you could imagine that on the shopping side, that there's a lot of traction there. Yeah, a lot of excitement around this. Climbing the chart is currently M.U.s is number three on the charts. App Store after ESPN fantasy sports and more in chat, GPT. Growing Daniel came in with an absolutely brutal ratio. What is that? He quoted Zach's announcement with a screenshot of the exchange that Zach had with somebody during the early days of Facebook where he said, yes, so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard, just ask. I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, and student numbers. What? How do you manage that one? People just submitted it. I don't know why. They quote unquote, trust me, dumb Fs. Anyway, growing Daniel, never forgets. Obviously, Zach has grown up a lot since then. Who punched him in the nose? That's the question. That is the big person asking. Let me find the, you said me the image. Is this true? Yeah, so here's the thing.

26:45His nose is starting to look like this guy, Marab, who is a UFC champion. Marab has one of the most busted up noses in the UFC. And Marab was the UFC fighter that Zach was training with on that deck. Pull up this picture of Marab, and you can see their noses are starting to look quite similar. That's a really good sign that he's holding it in. Look at this. Zoom in there. He's pushing. Look, his nose is, Zach was like, give me one of them right now. Give me a nose like that right now. This tells me that Zach is going way harder and training that he lets on in the video. Totally, totally. Which I love to see. He's like, he's ready for that Elon fight. Yeah. He's like, there's a chance. I might catch Elon on a good day. He ups in. Yeah. I gotta be ready. All right. Let's talk about Doom. Doom. An anthropic researcher is quitting the artificial intelligence industry.

27:45Whoa. He didn't just quit the company quit the industry over fears that the lab and its competitors are racing to build systems that could spiral out of control and destroy humanity. This was not received well. A bunch of back and forth with another researcher chiming in saying that they have a p-dume of 10%, which is something that's come up years ago and we kind of went back and forth on. I went to with Jacob Coxson who said, I resigned from Anthropic today. I spent the last three years doing pre-training research at both OpenAI and Anthropic. Neither company is acting responsibly. They are racing straight to self-improving superintelligence and gambling with our lives. He is not happy with where things go and it got 100 million views and 600,000 likes. It's going straight on a Bernie Sanders billboard for sure. I worked on an actual thermonuclear weapons project, Martin Cassado from A16Z says, and the dissonance was less bizarre.

28:47So he's comparing it to what it was like working on very scary technology, very different than what's going on today. And Evan Hubinger who works on alignment science at Anthropic previously, Meary, OpenAI, Google, Ripple. He says, Jacob is correct here. We really do earnestly believe AI could kill all humans. I personally think it's above 10 percent within the next decade. I believe in Anthropic is trying its best, but we do not yet have a plan to solve alignment for superintelligence and are clearly not on track too. So everyone's sort of pushing for a slow down now, but then you go into the regulatory capture thing. I've been seeing what. Just fucking hamster. Bro got that pip. Yeah, a lot of people were like, are you giving back your ass? Equity, blah blah blah blah, yeah. A lot of people were just going back and forth on everything. Ryan Peterson sees it as a bull case. He says, I need to buy more stock in this company.

29:47I've never seen such a commitment to making money regardless of the consequences. Yeah, it is. It is. It's a different one. That dare says, if you publicly assign a greater than 10 percent probability to human extinction within a decade, you owe people a clear explanation of how you reach that number or plus what would change your mind. Yes. Yeah, so a lot of people were upset that this felt like a vibe prediction, very like unresearched. He did link, Evan did link to the anthropic risk report, which you can read in full. They have a reasonable scaling policy and they're talking about pacing the frontier, collaborating with other labs. I'm oddly optimistic that this will happen. Obviously, there's the Sam and Daria can't even hold hands on stage in that India conference. But AI has made strange bedfellows out of people. If you had said, oh yeah, in six months Elon Musk, the guy who's calling anthropic,

30:51mis-entthropic, will be doing a deal and bring in Shulto to watch rockets take off at Star Base. I would have been like, no way, no way can Elon Musk and Daria become friends. That just seems impossible. But the funniest outcome is the most likely to quote Elon again. Leaving in your whole heart that things are that serious and then just rage quitting and not leaning in and trying, do you really think that the rage quit method is? I don't know. I mean, some of these organizations are really big and if you're at a certain level, it can be very hard to actually get things done in a large organization. It's weird, weird time. Leave us five stars on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Send us for our newsletter at tbpn.com and we will see you tomorrow at 11am Pacific Sharp. That will be Thursday. 100, it will be 105 days until...