Did Tinder Cause BLM & Me Too? Could it Lead to Males & Females Speciating?

Did hookup culture and swipe apps like Tinder create the massive political and cultural divide between young men and women? In this Based Camp episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins break down shocking new polling data showing young women are far more negative toward men than vice versa, explore how Tinder supercharged resentment and radicalization, and discuss everything from MeToo to artificial wombs and potential speciation between the sexes.

They cover:• The timeline correlation between Tinder’s rise and women shifting hard left• Why short-term mating markets destroy long-term relationship prospects• Male vs female responsibility in modern dating chaos• The anime that predicted male/female civilizations splitting• Practical advice for men seeking real partners and why “high value” looksmaxxing can backfire

A raw, data-heavy, and unfiltered conversation on one of the biggest societal fractures of our time.Based Camp - Did Hookup Culture Cause Anti-Male Extremism_

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] So 2015 is when Tinder launched. Oh, and about two years later is really when it started to pick up, . The thing that really made hookup culture run out of control was the technology introduction of swipe based dating, which made hookup culture something that could run at scale.

And that’s when women who were eights and below suddenly had access to these higher quality men on their lazy nights and started to believe that this was the type of man who eventually would become their boyfriend or marry them.

And this is where the resentment really starts.

Malcolm Collins: you listen, you can’t see good graph. I mean, it is, it is striking. Like as soon as Tinder gets popular bam, women explode.

You get me too. You get BLM you get huge rates of, of additional liberal tendencies in the female voting pool, particular in the single [00:01:00] female voting pool.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we’re gonna be talking about an interesting question and an interesting theory. The theory coming from Simone is, did hookup culture create the current and continually growing divide between young men and young women?

And we’ll be going over a bunch of stats that signify this divide. Because it’s, it’s way bigger than you would imagine. And then the second I wanna go over comes from an anime I was watching recently.

Simone Collins: Oh no. Only

Malcolm Collins: because I was on a leaflet stream and somebody on the leaflet comment, they go seeing leaflet and Malcolm Talks makes me not as afraid that we’re gonna end up with an X future.

And I was like, I haven’t heard of this anime. So I went to look it up and watch it and it’s old and not very good. But it is an interesting concept, which is. After artificial wombs are developed

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Because already with humanity one of the thought experiments I often [00:02:00] have is like, wouldn’t it be cool if like crow mags continue to exist today?

So like, we could talk with and converse with a human with like a completely different sociological physiological perspective on reality. Right? Yeah. Or

Simone Collins: Neander falls. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. We, we, we basically. Have that, which is human females. Right. Because

Simone Collins: gone

Malcolm Collins: human females are probably more different from human males than Neanderthal males are from human males and Neanderthal females.

Were from human females. Like as hominids, we’re quite different from each other. In terms of our, our sociological perspectives, the way we would want government, the wor the way we would want the prisons in so many different ways. We’re very, very, very different from each other. Scale,

Simone Collins: you know, structure and Yeah.

Muscle mass.

Malcolm Collins: People have different roles. Yeah. And it asks it, it sort of takes this, this guess is that, well, once we have artificial wounds, the core political divide, which we’re kind of seeing already, is going to be between men and women. And eventually they split into different civilizations. One [00:03:00] is a descendant civilization of males and other is a descendant civilization of females.

Hmm.

And obviously the, the very fun thing is how they mythologize why the other was so bad, like all of the cruel ways that women used to treat men. And it’s like a list of like men’s rights grievances. Like did you know that men died at like 98% the rate of women when they worked together? Did you know that?

Like, and it says, what, what would those two differing societies be like? And honestly and I, I, I want to talk with you. Do you think that happens? Because I hadn’t actually thought through how strong the political wins may be for a divide between men and women. We’re already seeing people in both camps talking about wanting to do it right.

Like Sandman, who we’ve had on the show has talked about doing that himself, you know,

Simone Collins: having a bunch of guys. Yeah, actually,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, a bunch of guys. We talked to other guys who were doing it. Even

Simone Collins: when I was in Austin, there [00:04:00] were people like talking about it. Like, well, I wish I could just do this. And I’m like, oh, actually you can, I’ll share the Google doc with you.

Of that, that other guy who,

Malcolm Collins: oh, yeah, you should put that Google

Simone Collins: document, if you remember, shared his guide to getting a surrogate and just doing it on your own, on a budget. I

Malcolm Collins: mean, a bunch of women have talked about wanting to do this to the extent that there’s been a number of instances where women have, like when they, with their lesbian partner, whatever, accidentally conceived a male child, like wanted to sue the clinic when they found out they couldn’t have an abortion, they said it felt like

Simone Collins: there’s also a couple there’s a, a, a prominent case of a gay couple having done this too,

Malcolm Collins: to have only gay kid, only male kids, I mean.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So, well, I mean, this is like a thing on Tumblr. Like, let’s just create what, what do we even need men for? What do they, we can have birth without them. Right. You know.

Simone Collins: Well, but same, same with gay couples, you know, and if they’re doing it without women and they just wanna have a boy kid.

Yeah. And

Malcolm Collins: people can be like, well, you at least need like sperm or eggs. And it’s like, not anymore. Like IVG [00:05:00] technology is getting pretty good at this point. Yeah. We’ve helped fund it with our foundation.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So we’re maybe 10 years away from IVG just being you know, an easy way to, that, that means being able to create sperm and egg cells from other types of cells in your body.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But to be, to be clear, a a lot of this is couched in for context, a new polling that was conducted for the new statements in new statesmen in the uk in, in early in this year that found that young women, especially in the 25 to 30 range, are way more negative on men than young men are toward women.

So, as much as I cited this, this example of a gay couple suing because they didn’t have the boy they hoped for and selected. This is more about female hate and, and female pushing away. No, I, I could see reactive male speci should of just being like, I’m gonna throw my hands up and wash my hands with a situation.

But what people have been discussing a lot online is this new statesman polling. I’m gonna, in the show notes link to an [00:06:00] archive link, so not paywall of the actual polling results. But some highlights of it are that about 72% of young men report a favorable view of young women. So most, right? But only around 7% report an unfavorable view that, again, this is a very friendly approach, but then women under 30, only half report a favorable view of men.

And one fifth, like 21% versus 7% for men. Have a favorable view, and among women under 25, only about 35% express a positive view of men at all. And just about 11% describe their view as very positive.

Malcolm Collins: Wow. So only one in four women under 25

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Has a positive view of men. Wow.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And young women are three times as likely to hold a negative view of men as young men are, to hold a negative view of women, put other ways.

And then 40% of young women say men don’t share their understanding of consent in relationships. So only 25% say [00:07:00] the same amount about women, which makes sense. Young women are twice as likely as young men to say they don’t want children. Something we’ve discussed at length, and this shows up in a lot of polling.

So 15% of women versus 8% of men. And among white women under 30 it’s 20%. And young one in four young women say it partners different political views as a red flag. So God forbid we consider alternate views, which is actually,

Malcolm Collins: hold on, hold on, hold on. Simone. Yeah. Would you have said that back when you were a progressive?

When I first met you,

Simone Collins: I really liked. Talking with people who are different. When I, when I found ‘em on ok. Keep, that was kind of a selling point. Okay. But maybe I was weird. I would’ve thought that it was normative because I thought, you know, women love enemies to lovers. They love a bad guy. They love novelty, they love new views.

Malcolm Collins: Well, we all saw the, the Ice Romance books pop off.

Simone Collins: So, so yeah. That, that is, I actually find that very surprising. Like, why, why would women be so into enemies to lovers and, [00:08:00] and like to view men as these like, ooh, like powerful age, agentic, whatever. And, and leftist views broadly, which is what women, women are holding on average.

Like I don’t think this is young conservative women saying that they wouldn’t date a progressive

Malcolm Collins: male

Simone Collins: partner.

Malcolm Collins: I think what’s really interesting here is a few things. So one is obviously this changes the framing when people are like in cells or like angry young men or, or the problem in society, it’s very clear that angry young women are astronomically more of a problem in society than angry young men.

Yeah. Men’s reaction is mostly. I don’t want to deal with this. Right. Like these, these harpies are nightmarish. Have you ever had to interact with one?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And they are, they are. You know, I, yeah.

Simone Collins: I mean, the old saying, women can’t live with them, can’t live without ‘em, but increasingly you can live without them.

And will that allow for speciation, is your question?

Malcolm Collins: Yes. No. No mandate speciation. So, yeah. I, I, I also wanna point

Simone Collins: out people. We also found, though, I just wanna say that women also, 74% said the same about disagreements on social [00:09:00] justice. So it’s not just politics, it’s also social justice. And also they’re more likely than men to rule out partners just over immigration views.

Alone. Like, not like, oh, you’re a republic. Even if you’re a progressive man who believes in social justice, but then you, you know, you’re like, you know, maybe we should curtail immigration. Nope, you’re out. So anyway, it, it just, it check out the survey, there’s a ton more. And also women have way more negative views, for example, on economics.

They’re more pessimistic on life in general. They honestly sound like bummers to be around.

Malcolm Collins: Well also I, I note on your enemies to lover thing, which I do think is right. I think women honestly go for that. It’s, you can date with a strategy like that without as much trouble as you would imagine. Yeah. The a a lot of male dating advice is really messed up.

And this is in part because of hookup culture. So we’re gonna go into that conversation a little.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Are still sort of red pill cued around what women are looking [00:10:00] for. And it’s something that I had pointed out before. But I, I, I want to point it out again because I, I, it’s like really important that guys gr this because I was watching a home math video and I really respect home math.

I think he’s a, a great

Simone Collins: same home math is

Malcolm Collins: awesome. But he was going over the studies that show oh, well, you know, these guys who say that you don’t really need to work out, you don’t really need to be buffed. There’s better things to invest your time in. In terms of securing a, a partner of the opposite gender they’re, they’re wrong about this, right?

Like, look at these studies. And so he goes over a number of studies and then he, he mentions a line that he sees a sort of a throwaway line, but it misses the entire point. He’s like, well. Of course the studies found that women really prefer you know, buff guys when they’re looking for a short-term partner, but not so much when they’re looking for a long-term partner.

But he is like, but of course, because we’re all downstream of the red pill community, you want to be the short-term partner, right? Like, you want to be the sex [00:11:00] boy, right?

Simone Collins: No. No.

Malcolm Collins: And it’s like, that’s not what anyone in our community wants. Oh, we’re looking for a long-term partner, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And so, the men so frequently q to what women are looking for in short-term partners, because it’s something that’s very easy to test.

Like I go to a club, I go to a night ball, I’m surfing on apps. Am are, are women like flocking to me, right? And the answer is, is yes. If you’re buffer, they are. But that can, once you go above certain levels, actually lead you to problem securing a partner. If, if we look in the manosphere sort of wider influencer space, right.

And this is I think a good way to like sanity test ideas in your head. Yeah. Be like, okay, of the influencers I know who have X body type or y body type. Mm-hmm. How has, so in that video home as your picture that looks Oh he in real life, [00:12:00] home as apparently quite a, a buff very muscular looking guy.

Simone Collins: All that illustrating, you know, really, so it works you out?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay. So like, let’s think of like buff. Manosphere, you’ve got home math.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You’ve got Chris Williamson. You’ve got I’m thinking Ry Nationalists. Yeah. Did, did any of these guys have kids or even a spouse?

Speaker: Sorry, forgot a few Here. You also have Andrew Huberman, Myron Gaines, and , bronze Age pervert.

Malcolm Collins: And then, oh, Weasley, little Malcolm here.

How did I, how did I end up with, with five and counting kids?

Speaker 7: Who else in the new right intellectual influencer space has a wife and kids? Uh, well, we have pictures of traditional masculinity like Curtis Jarvin and Ed Dutton. I.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, the point I’m making is it’s very important to not invest. The hard parts of life in the wrong area. If I was to spend a [00:13:00] portion of my day, for example, exercising that would be time I’m not spending building.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Or, or, or writing,

Simone Collins: building wealth, building a family, finding a wife, et cetera.

Yeah. Well, and and more broadly, you know, the advice that you get from anyone is going to get you where they are broadly, you know, if it works. Yeah. In the best case scenario. So,

Malcolm Collins: by the way, the thing that I’ve built recently that I’m quite excited about, I, I’ll try to get this episode, I’ll get it live for this episode.

I’ll get it live for this episode is on reality fabricator we’re building, this is in conjunction with Leaflet who’s providing me, like, advice on this, a card game. And what the game will do is it’ll be like playing actual, like yugi. So like in, in, in like the anime, right? We’re like, cards have like abilities, but like if a dragon is like breathing flame, right?

Well that has the effects that a dragon breathing flame would have. It doesn’t have like numbered effects. It doesn’t have a health bar or [00:14:00] something like that.

Simone Collins: Right, right.

Malcolm Collins: And so you play your cards onto a deck and you give actions like in words like, I want the card to do XI want the card to do y knowing what the environment is.

Mm-hmm. And then an AI runs to decide you did this, your opponent did this. Obviously we have an AI opponent you can work with or you can go with human opponents. And. Then based on what happens based on both of your choices, changes the individual elements of that scene. So the images on the cards get changed based on what happened to them.

The environment

Simone Collins: that’s so funny

Malcolm Collins: gets changed. The,

Simone Collins: it’s like if this were Pokemon and they were Pokemon cards, like Pikachu would look all beat up and stuff.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Pikachu would look all beat up after he hit. Right. Like that’s the idea.

Simone Collins: That’s great thing. Yeah. That’s great. I love that.

Malcolm Collins: By the way, you can turn off the feature that constantly changes the images to save money.

If you’re like, I don’t like, that’s a little too, you don’t need

Simone Collins: that. Yeah.

Speaker: Holy, raw,

Speaker 2: real [00:15:00] monsters.

Actually, they’re just super advanced holograms created for the sole purpose of enriching the experience of a children’s card game.

Speaker: Okay. Seriously, you’ve got to be kidding me. Who wastes all their money on something like that.

Simone Collins: I still love that. I wanna see my, okay. I don’t wanna see Pikachu beat up, but. I, I wanna see pickup troop

Speaker 8: Sadly about the only element that’s not working very well right now, at least the last time I tested, was the image redraw feature. So, , I hope to have that done by the end of the week, but we’re stuck in DC right now, so we’re not getting as much done as normal.

Malcolm Collins: and I’ll eventually make that part of the feature. Like obviously I’ve been working on, the big thing we were working on was agents recently was making them cost a lot less and now there’s a video telling you how to use the agents.

It’s like the top agent card if you wanna use agents, so you can watch that because they, they’d rack up costs way too quickly the way they were structured before. And so I came up with a number of options you can use to really specialize your task with an agent and cut down their cost.

Speaker 9: They also have a vibe coding mode, which basically means they create [00:16:00] either a task list and work until the end of the task list is done. Or they just work until they don’t make a tool or an action call, uh, like typical vibe coding software does, which also has them just not run as long and rack up the same cost.

Malcolm Collins: What else? Yeah, but yeah, building constantly, right?

Like women, like guys who. Do stuff and have missions.

Simone Collins: Well, let’s talk about this thesis on sort of the, the trigger of this divide, because I think it’s, it’s interesting and I’m kinda like, Ooh, I see, I see, I see where this is going. So on X ray, a, k, a at dystopian, GF wrote. Casual sex is unironically a huge part of why so many women have become politically radicalized.

If you ask a random woman why she hates men, 95% chance, it boils down to sexual grievance accumulated from embarrassing experiences like the op. In other words, women are the real incel in spirit. I witnessed this myself in college. One too many bad situation ships and they begin to [00:17:00] carry this feeling of being a piece of meat everywhere, projecting it onto society, despite there being zero material evidence of structural misogyny in the west.

The bitter irony is that hookup and situationship culture is a byproduct of feminism. They fought for the ability to be treated like pieces of meat to be equal to men and sexual. The way men are with each other. But the attainment of this freedom has done nothing but foment an even deeper hatred for their of their father’s civilization.

And she posted this in response to someone sharing a screenshot from a post hookup story a woman posted on TikTok. The caption that Ope had put was situationship. Breakups are so crazy because why did this man just tell me the only person he wants to be with is his ex? And then immediately make me eggs on toast.

He nutted in me like 10 minutes after this, what God’s name is happening. Which is just gross. And then MOA Bible on X chipped in, . Women will post this beep and then wonder why the entire planet and every major [00:18:00] religion has imposed strict social re restrictions on their sovereignty since the dawn of time in every place humans have ever lived.

Also the shadow band wrote, let’s at least sympathize here. The man does not need to do this to her. Just because a girl is willing to put out doesn’t mean you have to take her up on the offer to which Ray responded. I do tend to think that vol cells, like in like voluntary incel are the most noble of men.

And I’ll link in the show notes to the discourse, but I’m like, oh my God, is this true? Like, is the political polarization that we’re seeing between men and women. Something that really accelerated after hookup culture.

Malcolm Collins: We’ll talk about male responsibility in this.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: In truth, I think men have near zero responsibility in this, and I’ll explain why.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Suppose you say

Simone Collins: what they can’t help themselves.

Malcolm Collins: Suppose you say men should be vol cells. Right? And the vast majority of men decide to be vol cells, [00:19:00] right? Okay. So you, you get out there and 75% of men are like, yeah, I’m gonna be V cells.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like, I’m not going to sleep with you. I will be a gentleman.

I will ask to be your boyfriend. I will meet your parents.

Malcolm Collins: The problem is, is that the men who don’t sign up for that, right? Mm-hmm. So easy for them to get sex now because of this huge arbitrage that’s been created.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Women who are open to sleeping around are just going to have such a big audience because they can sleep with one girl one night, one girl the next night, one girl the night after that.

Right.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The, the amount of women sleeping around does not actually decrease dramatically if you increase the number of all cells unless you can get to total So prohibition.

Simone Collins: That’s true. Basically. Yeah. 1, 1, 1 or two bad actors can cover a lot of ground. A lot of ground.

Malcolm Collins: Exactly. Yeah. So this is fundamentally like the woman is not thinking about the, the pattern.

Like the guy has told her, I have no interest in committing to you, and then she sleeps [00:20:00] with him, right. And she’s like, well, he’s not being actively unpleasant to me, so I guess I’m gonna sleep with him. Right. Like obviously this causes externalities right to, to structure society this way. And the core obviously we haven’t gone to this yet, but you know, any of our audience who has watched our previous videos on this notes, the core challenge this creates is because all of the women are chasing after so few men, this is just statistically true.

And I’m, I’m really perplexed when women are like, well, that’s a, a sexist talking point. And I’m like. Maybe Really? Okay, here’s a chart of a hundred men that, you know, how many of them are you willing to sleep with, right? Yeah. You know, like, they’re like, well, these two, and I’m like, you see, that’s the f*****g problem, right?

Mm-hmm. So, or they might have who, who, who’s, who, who else are people sleeping with? Right? You know, that women have a phenomenon where they will find somebody more attractive the more other people sleep with them, by the way another thing, if you’re thinking of the like. I’m like, guys, you are wrong.

About who? [00:21:00] Women actually like go after in, in a meaningful context.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which YouTuber recently had a major scandal where it turned out he was sleeping was tons of women this Waso the one they tried to cancel.

Simone Collins: Oh, that guy who failed to be canceled. Yeah. Whose girlfriend like, came out in defense of him despite the fact that she had been cheated on multiple times.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That is ultimate. But this is what I’m talking about. Right. You know? Yeah. You’re not, you’re not getting these other influencers this that’s happening to them. No, it’s, it’s little Twinky Sexo or whatever his name is. But. It’s like his belief women over, I was thinking about doing an episode in that one because everyone after that, like basically defended him and they’re like, Hey, a guy should be able to cheat.

Like, what are you talking about?

Simone Collins: What was most fun to watch is just all the guys covering him, being like, oh my God. Like he did it guys. He pulled it off. What a moment for men.

Malcolm Collins: Amazing. The, the woman who I, I attacked him came off as so f*****g [00:22:00] petty. She was like, she’s like, well, I went to Vegas to a hotel room with him.

Mm-hmm. And we stayed up late watching a horror movie together. And then we hooked up and had sex and it’s like. Hold on, but she’s like, but that’s not why I went, that’s not what my intention. I was like, wait, you went alone with him to Vegas to watch horror movies in a shared hotel room? That is consent.

Okay. I’m sorry. Like they say, 40% of women have a different idea of consent than what men have. Why the F else did you go there? What else did you think was supposed to happen, you think he wanted to fly? Do do, do you think that he was supposed to think that that’s what you wanted was to just watch horror movies?

Especially when you didn’t actively deny consent or tell him, I’m not interested in Sex

Simone Collins: Well and went forward with it.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that was,

Simone Collins: that’s a key part

Malcolm Collins: of Absolutely. [00:23:00] Affluent multiple times. By the way, first giving him head then having sex with him head isn’t something that you can easily accidentally do.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s not like she slipped in the shower.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Come on. People. Like, I think that that was the other thing where people were like, that she thought that this was some big, like reveal on him is so egregious. It shows such a sense of entitlement, right? Like I wanted a famous guy to commit to me who is al already in a relationship and I will achieve this by getting him to sleep with me.

And it’s like, no, it doesn’t work that way. Right? The one place where I think in this scenario that’s been created where I think guys are extremely culpable, is this is guys that signal that they want more serious or more long-term relationships than they actually want. And I think that this is something that, like as men, if we are going to [00:24:00] socially punish a behavior, is the easy behavior to socially punish.

And that should be socially punished and seen as extremely bad because I have seen many women who do actually want long-term relationships get screwed over by guys who don’t want long-term relationships signaling that they do want long-term relationships to gain access to these women. And then people can be like, well then the woman just shouldn’t put out in any way.

And it’s like, okay, you can say that, but a lot of guys, even guys who are actually interested in long-term relationships just won’t seriously date them then.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, continue is where you were going with this.

Simone Collins: I sent you two graphs on, whatsApp that you can include in this episode if you so please.

They show the political ideology divide as it grows over time between men and women. One starts at 1975.

Malcolm Collins: Wow. After 2015, women went off the deep end with liberal

Simone Collins: well, so two. So 2015 is when [00:25:00] Tinder launched. Oh, and about two years later is really when it started to pick up, which you can really actually see on the graph.

Like two years later and it’s like young and it, what’s clear is that throughout history, like starting in the 1960s, you know, there was the sexual revolution. Definitely morays around sexuality and dating got looser and looser and looser over time. But the thing that really I think made hookup culture run out of control was the technology introduction of swipe based dating, which made hookup culture something that could run at scale.

It made it very, very possible for lazy eights, nines and tens to access as many women as they wanted. Like that’s when the unlimited women on tap apps came out, basically.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: And that’s when women who were eights and below suddenly had access to these higher quality [00:26:00] men on their lazy nights and started to believe that this was the type of man who eventually would become their boyfriend or marry them.

And this is where the resentment really starts. I think that hookup culture was not a, as much of a problem and certainly didn’t breed resentment and then ferment political pol polarization before. Women had this experience of being jilted by men who never expected to invest in them as people from the GetGo.

And then when swipe based dating happened suddenly that that was facilitated. Yeah. Well,

Malcolm Collins: so it’s really clear here. Mm-hmm. You. Have to understand how bad, so Simone said that these apps are women on demand for high value men.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And they really are women on demand for high value men. Mm-hmm. It is just a constant flow for as many women as they want whenever they feel like it.

And that leads them to treat these women incredibly poorly. [00:27:00] Mm-hmm. It’s like those old northern factory guys, and they’d be like, but your employees could die in these conditions. And it’s like, well, you know, I’ve got 10 other people. Right. Yeah. You want someone to care about you be a slave. Right.

And again, this is sort of what we’re dealing with here. Which, and I have said this in other videos. Men owning their wives gave the women more value. Like it, it caused them to become protected by those men in the same way that in many times in the north, factory workers were treated worse than slaves because at least you had a reason to keep the slave alive.

Mm-hmm. But a better. Dynamic here is property ownership in communist countries versus capitalist countries. Mm. In capitalist countries properties are generally very well up kept. Like you drive through a neighborhood, you’re going to see a bunch of nice houses. In fact, the only place where you really see super rundown houses is government housing, where people do not own it.

You go to communist countries, [00:28:00] typically everything’s falling apart. Yeah. And the reason is, is because if you don’t own the property you’re living in, then you don’t benefit from maintaining it or invest.

Simone Collins: You only stand to lose. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You only stand to lose. And it’s the same as a partner, a man who doesn’t.

Own his women or wife. Right. And he was just going through, lots of them actually stands to lose from attempting to invest in improving her, whereas,

Simone Collins: right. Because then he’s almost cing himself. You know, he’s improving some woman that eventually some other man is gonna end up

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah.

Simone Collins: With, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

And these women have shown that that’s the way that they act, right? Mm-hmm. And now I’d also say do not take an overly harsh approach to women over this, which is to say that women are just behaving in relation to their biology in the same way that men are, right? Like, women are one far more communalist in their ideology than men are.

And so if they’re in a community that all tells them something. It is. Way, way, way psychologically [00:29:00] harder for them to break out of that. Mm-hmm. So when everyone around them is telling you you know, oh, just sleep around, you know, it’s, it’s no big deal. Get married in your thirties, whatever that.

The a a woman is, is gonna have a fairly hard time. And the biggest thing that’s told to them is all women are beautiful. You know, do not judge yourself by reality is basically what that statement is. Do not judge your, you, you deserve whatever you want. It’s like, do not you, you, it’s such a freaking bizarre ideology that’s spread, but it is absolutely commonplace among female circles.

And then that your value on the sexual marketplace is the same as your value on the, on the marriage marketplace. Now, they won’t even allow you to have concepts like a sexual marketplace or marriage marketplace. They’re like that. So dehumanizing. What do you mean street market value? What do you mean?

Whatever. But if you don’t understand these concepts as a woman you fundamentally won’t understand that the guys you can get to sleep with you on a swipe app are [00:30:00] not the guys who are going to marry you. And the other concept that is heavily shamed in these communities, but is absolutely true. Is that you will be heavily penalized in the marriage marketplace by men based on the number of partners you had before you find

Simone Collins: Oh, for sure.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And, and that in fact, you are even more penalized in the marriage marketplace for past sexual partners than you are on the sexual marketplace for past sexual partners. Oh,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I shouldn’t be, and it’s like, well, I’m sorry honey. You are right. Like, that’s just the data, right? Like, that’s just the reality.

Because in the same way,

Simone Collins: and it makes a lot of sense intuitively actually, I mean, the entire reason why marriage was first established as a concept was about securing paternity and property rights. It was about making sure that the female partner was not sleeping with other people, and that the entire community knew that was the point of the, like ceremony.

Yeah. It was like, by the way. [00:31:00] No, no one sleep with her. Okay. Do we all agree that no one slept with her before and I I’m the only one to sleep with her after? Like, that was the entire point. Like it was so simple. Yes, it was about property rights and it was about like, promiscuity just I, I think it’s underrated.

Under, under understood or misunderstood and underrated.

Malcolm Collins: The, the, the, the where, where I’m going with this is, women obey their biology just as men do. And women’s biology tells them, try to secure the highest value partner that you can. Yeah. Right? Like, and it’s, and then this is more than even males feel this, right?

Like, for women, it is absolutely important. I secure a a, a high value partner where high value is status or earning et cetera, right? Mm-hmm. And so, when they do not see that they are hurting themselves by being on the sexual marketplace, when they do not see that these relationships have no real chance at becoming stable long-term relationships they, they are, are they, like they, they don’t know how that this is happening to them.

[00:32:00] They don’t see this happening to them, and they suffer for this. You see the psychological health of women way lower than the psychological health of men right now, right? Like, especially progressive women who have fully adopted into these ideals. And and I’ve met many women who. Went into this culture and then came out of it and they’re like, it just effed up my life so much.

But like, how was I supposed to know there was a nobody in these communities? Like the effect of outsource community is one place where this really happens to women telling me like, actually there’s huge externalities to the choices that you’re making right now that are going to make your long-term life really hard.

In the same way that like as a kid, everybody warns you about getting tattoos. Nobody was warning them against this. The other thing that is not, I had mentioned this in another video and I was very interested in the comments on this where I noted that, while body count matters a lot to men mm-hmm.

Interracial body count seems to matter significantly more than body count. Eeg sleeping with somebody of a different ethnic group. [00:33:00] And I was wondering, I was like, is that a unique to white men thing or is this something that other ethnicities have? And somebody in the comments was like, actually, you see this a lot in Asian communities where if an Asian woman has slept with white men, that that’s considered worse than if she has been promiscuous with Asian men.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. That’s interesting. Yeah. And we, we brought this up on another episode and someone even wrote in, ‘cause you and I just didn’t really, we couldn’t empathize with it. And they were like, yeah, I, I, I can’t control it. But it is definitely a feeling of disgust. So I feel like maybe there’s something genetic and inbuilt that some people have where if they know that someone is the product of some form of mixed heritage.

Marriage or pairing or no.

No.

Malcolm Collins: They

Simone Collins: sell.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, that is not what I said. I wanna be very clear about this. Oh,

Simone Collins: okay.

Malcolm Collins: Women are typically not penalized for being mixed race. They are penalized for sleeping with somebody of a different race. Okay. In the statistics you actually see being mixed race [00:34:00] helps you as a female.

So we pointed this out in the episode where we reviewed different

Yeah.

Simone Collins: From attractiveness, it’s better to either marry your second or third cousin or to be mixed race.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Well, not just that, but the white men on average rate, Asian white women. So women that are birthed from Asian white matches as hotter on average than.

Fully white women.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

And we have plenty of people who’ve written to us agreeing to that point.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that’s obviously true. I like, even though I’m not drawn to,

Simone Collins: there are also people though who find that a major turnoff and who’ve also written to us to attest to it. So just pointing that out.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I, I’m just saying like, I, I’m just searching myself, right. Like. I think that they are objectively hotter, but I’m not interested in them as a, a like marriage match. Like there’s a certain look on a female that like, well

Simone Collins: think it depends on what you’re, you’re optimizing for.

You’re optimizing for a very specific cultural trope and other people are optimizing for hotness. So it depends on your equation.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I am, [00:35:00] I You

Simone Collins: didn’t optimize for hotness. I’m s sorry.

Malcolm Collins: Noted. This was like the, one of the key most important things I’m always optimizing for is no makeup.

Obviously she wears makeup now because like we have a conservative fan base and you’re supposed to do that, but like,

Simone Collins: because your mom taught me to Yeah. In,

Malcolm Collins: no, in terms of what I think is hot, it’s no makeup.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I found that really gross on women. And, and I, I don’t know, like I and Simone has noted this where I’m like, what?

I think X person is really hot. Like Pearl Davis. I was like, I think Pearl Davis is pretty hot and a lot of people don’t. And Simone goes, Malcolm is because she doesn’t wear much makeup.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And that’s why our fans do not, but I, I, I wonder if this is a genetic thing with me or if it’s a learned

Simone Collins: thing.

So this is, I think this is what most men don’t get about makeup. There are two types of makeup. There’s a makeup that women wear for other women, which is when you can tell it’s there like red lipstick and visible eye stuff and contouring. It’s makeup. You can tell it’s. And then there’s the other type of makeup, which men call no makeup, which is the type of makeup that women put on [00:36:00] that is undetectable to the untrained eye.

It makes to make you look better. That makes women not look ill. And when they don’t wear it, they look sick suddenly. And you’re like, oh God, are you okay? And it’s like, no, you’ve just only ever seen this woman in makeup and you haven’t realized it. ‘cause you don’t know what to look for because you’re dude.

And I think men don’t realize that like, I like women without makeup. No, you like women with makeup. You just don’t like women with makeup for women. You like women with makeup for men. Alright, just, okay. End of end of that.

Malcolm Collins: But, but what I’ll note on these two charts that I think is really interesting, especially the second chart that you shared mm-hmm.

Is it Tinder didn’t make men more conservative, it made women more progressive.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. That’s the thing. That’s the thing is, is I really do think that there’s something to raise. On X’s point, which is that this started to just subtly and cumulatively over time build this resentment, which then I think snowballed into things like Me Too.

For example me Too was actually founded hashtag Me Too in 2006 by the activist Tarana Burke to support [00:37:00] survivors of sexual violence. But it didn’t gain global or viral momentum until October of 2017 after Alyssa Milano encouraged survivors to use the hashtag following Harvey Weinstein’s sexual abuse

Malcolm Collins: survivors.

EG The guy I wanted didn’t want me back.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But the key thing, remember Tinder launched in September of 2015, but did not pick up until two years later. That is exactly what, when Me Too went viral.

Malcolm Collins: You are just feel like right.

Simone Collins: Coincidence? I don’t know. But I think

Malcolm Collins: there’s women really because you know, the, the joke about women in responsibility, they feel very deeply when they thought that they were getting with a guy and that it was gonna be a relationship and he just didn’t want them for that. They feel incredibly used and like it’s not their responsibility. They’re not responsible for failing to win that guy. The guy is responsible for failing to choose them.

And I think our society unfortunately has reinforced this, especially with hotter [00:38:00] girls. Like because with hotter girls. They have lived in a society where everyone around them affirms them, like female friends, affirm them in whatever emotional state because they’re just supposed to, and the ones that don’t, then all the girls gang up on them and then males affirm them to get sex.

Right. Like, they don’t have a reason. There was recently a, a, a viral phenomenon with a woman being like, I switched from a female psychologist to an old white male psychologist, and the sessions have been so much more useful because he calls me out on my bs.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You know,

Simone Collins: oh no,

Malcolm Collins: having

Simone Collins: a white, that’s, that’s actually very emotionally mature of this woman also like.

Correction. Tinder launched in 2012 and then got popular in 20 14, 20 15. Yeah. Which is what would, would be, I think, pretty explanatory for enough time, for resentment to accumulate by 2017 when me, me too went viral. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: but no, you listen, you can’t see good graph. I mean, it is, it is striking. Like as soon as Tinder gets popular bam, women explode.

You get me too. You get BLM you get huge rates of, [00:39:00] of additional liberal tendencies in the female voting pool, particular in the single female voting pool. By the way, something I wanna do a separate episode on, which would be really exciting. Yeah,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Is note on the other graph, this is Malcolm welcoming, noticing something on a graph and being like, I wanna figure this out.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So looking at the first graph you sent me

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Look, in the 1970s. What was going on then? Why did the female dating population go so left in the 1970s

Simone Collins: that was at the tail end of the sexual revolution, and the 1980s was when things kind of clamped down again. And you had this era of like baroque more traditionalism.

I think. I mean, just going off of

Malcolm Collins: So you think it’s the exact same phenomenon, women, because as, as I

Simone Collins: think that, yeah, I think there was a backlash to sexual freedom that would, that saw its peak in the early seventies. And then I think really started to plummet again in the eighties as people went a little bit more traditional and [00:40:00] gender divergent.

Malcolm Collins: As ho math has said, society is constantly a battle of women wanting to be sluttier and men trying to keep them from acting sluttier.

Simone Collins: That’s funny. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I don’t think that that’s what’s really happening. I mean, I think female behavior is not driven inherently by female sluttiness. It’s driven by a combination of factors that leads to an inevitable result in aggregate behavioral patterns.

The behavioral patterns are women are communalist in their ideology. Okay. Okay. So they adopt whatever ideology is most common in their environment, and it it, unless they have a strong man to protect them in having an alternative ideology. Mm-hmm. That’s typically the only time, like when women, I think the reason women become more conservative when they get married is they feel they have like a buffer or a protector to have and think different thoughts.

That’s the only way you got out of this. And I’ll do a separate episode at some point on how to convert a, a progressive woman.

Simone Collins: That would be [00:41:00] useful. Yeah. That’s, that’s because I think a lot of men are like, well, where do I find these conservative women? And you’ve said, well just find, you know, progressive women.

Find a progressive.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, what are you, what are you talking about? Where do I

Simone Collins: find, but then I think, you know, the, the obvious and intuitive male response is, look, look at the numbers. Like women are broadly progressive and they won’t consider even dating men who are conservative. And I think that’s kind of where the nuance is to be done.

No,

Malcolm Collins: no, no.

Simone Collins: Actually they will consider

Malcolm Collins: the same way a woman says, I’d rather meet a bear in the woods than a man.

Simone Collins: Exactly.

Malcolm Collins: They don’t actually effing mean that they’re signaling something. They’re signaling something to themselves and to the people around them.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They still hot conservative guys. They say it all the time.

They complain about it all the time. Right? Yeah. They don’t have any consistency in terms of these beliefs. So women believe what the aggregate opinion is, and women are also disproportionately affected by whatever the hottest guys that they believe they can gain access to are who are the hottest guys.

They believe they can gain access to. F**k [00:42:00] boys. Why are they boys? Well, because the guys who want longer term relationships don’t want women like this. They don’t date women like this. The guys like me who wanted to lock down partners, I mean, in reality, most guys who genuinely want a longer term relationship locked it down in their early twenties.

That’s like when you really have to get it locked in. And if you don’t lock it in in your twenties, then you end up wasting a lot of time on. It, it, it’s, it’s very interesting, like when we talk about something like exercise, the reason why I I talk about something like exercise is you can build this mindset of I’m gonna do X, then I’m gonna go out and do the, the, the thing of of getting a woman, right?

And it’s very easy to be like, okay, once I’ve reached X goal, then I’ll go get the woman. But getting the woman is the hard part, right? Like, X goal gives you like a 10% advantage on getting the woman right. But. It wastes way more than 10% of the time that you would’ve spent on getting the woman.

It’s like 50% of the time. And then you try to go out and get a [00:43:00] woman, you find out they’re, they’re all terrible or whatever, and then you give up again for a long period and then you, you, you go into a cycle again instead of just being like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I’m just going to make it work no matter what.

Right? Like I am going to so break the door off its hinges, it’s going, it’s going to happen. I am going to make this work. And that was like me, you know, like, red Pillars

Sorry, I say red pillars a few times here, but what I meant was the hookup artist community. I got the two confused in my head for, I mean, they’re adjacent to each other, so I, I forgive myself.

Malcolm Collins: would say like, if you could look at red pill strategy, they’d say that the strategy that I’ve advocated for, like how do you secure a partner, really high throughput, dating you know, being willing to cut somebody off really quickly if it’s clear it’s not a match.

Mm-hmm. And just moving, moving, moving. They’d say that’s cheating. Like red pillars actively advocate against that. ‘cause they go, well that lacks skill. You know, that’s just a numbers game. Right. And I’m. Well, you see, here’s the thing, right? Even you admit it works, it just means [00:44:00] they don’t need to play your stupid game anymore.

What they need to do is build social resilience, resilience to rejection, and the emotional skills to know how to start conversations with strangers. And I know today if guys are like, well, I’m just gonna go out and meet somebody at a whatever in public, 60% of relationships today begin online. The vast minority of relationships begin in public these days.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So,

Simone Collins: and yet so many of the young people that we meet now who are like, I wanna meet someone, or like, well, I just wanna meet them in person. That’s like the, the default. Oh, we’ve talked about this in other episodes that women interviewed for stories. Women polled say that they want to find someone offline.

So it’s

Malcolm Collins: they do. So there’s

Simone Collins: a weird mismatch.

Malcolm Collins: It’s not offline, you know. But, the, the, the, you know, leave a girl your number or something to do it. This is the important thing in terms of shooting your shot. Mm-hmm. Do it in a non-threatening way. It’s not that hard to be non-threatening in the way that you flirt with some, I guess it is hard for some people, right?

Like, [00:45:00]

Simone Collins: I think it scares

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The, the less attractive you are, especially if you’re unaware that you’re not particularly attractive, the worse it gets to, and, and this is the thing, you go out there and you leave a girl like your number and like a, I’d be open to chatting if you’re interested. You know, I’m new in town on her table or something like that.

Totally in offensive look, the girl might go on TikTok and attempt to shame you or something like that. Right. But the reality is, is you just gotta learn to tough that out.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because there were plenty of women who I’m sure attempted to shame me in the communities that I was in. I, I would move really hard on women.

But, you know, eventually it worked out with a wife. And the other thing that I You

Simone Collins: moved hard on you.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, you moved on me. She made, she was interested in me. Was that you and I feel like perfect matches to people. People are like, oh, wow, you guys seem like really well matched for each other.

You know, that is in part because of the [00:46:00] number of dates that we were going on. Right? Like, we didn’t just randomly end up as perfect matches for each other. Right. We ended up as perfect matches because I tried matching to everyone.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And I prolifically reached out to. Guys on OkCupid as well, which of course as a woman is, is very unusual and a very easy way to gain an advantage in dating markets.

If you’re a woman and you’re having trouble dating, shame on you because all you have to do is just, just spawn camp like it’s so easy. You, you, you just,

Malcolm Collins: Simone, I don’t, I don’t think you’d like that. Implicate. So, spawn camping has a very specific meaning in dating culture.

Simone Collins: Oh, it does.

Malcolm Collins: It means,

Simone Collins: what does it mean in dating culture?

Malcolm Collins: Extremely young people.

Simone Collins: Ew. Okay. Great. Thanks Malcolm. That’s wonderful. I’m glad that you told me that. Wonderful. Great. Well, so there’s also just the option that we speciate just give up. Just Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So

Simone Collins: should we, you know, children of your own sex

Malcolm Collins: With my family and my kids, I [00:47:00] will try to raise a culture of the next generation.

I think that many people in our wider community are gonna be doing this with their kids. Yeah. Where they had sane expectations around sexuality and dating. Mm-hmm. And it prevents them from spiraling out like this because parents are having these conversations with them.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But

Simone Collins: well arranged marriages, again, super underrated.

Unfortunately, that’s not something that we, you know, if you don’t have parents who are invested in your getting married and, and they’re not out gonna go out there and help you and, and really make things happen and, and work on networking. In, in conjunction with you, you don’t have that benefit. So either handle it yourself, do it, it’s gonna be hard, or go your own way.

Have kids by yourself. And and

Malcolm Collins: so the question that I started with,

Simone Collins: yeah,

Malcolm Collins: is humanity, get a species eight.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: One, I think you’re right about this, and I think you found something really interesting here, how Tinder broke society.

Simone Collins: Well, what you pointed out, which is interesting and could provide some hope, and this is in against the speciation [00:48:00] argument, is as you saw, there was this great divide right after the sexual revolution exploded between men and women politically, but it healed.

And perhaps this was because women went from being incredibly sexually loose. When the sexual revolution exploded and there was some backlash and there were more, there’s a little more traditionalism in the eighties, perhaps. Maybe that will happen again.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my God. If, if this next generation, like if female females goes tread, like

Simone Collins: actually goes tread,

Malcolm Collins: what’s gonna be so funny is the millennial Whitman, the aging millennial slut women.

Oh no. How angry they’re gonna get about that. Yeah. Being shamed for young women for sleeping around, which we’re already seeing happen.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. They’re

Malcolm Collins: like, I’m 50 and I was out sleeping around and it’s like, whoa. Like woman, you’re 50 and you’re sleeping around. Like, that’s not something to brag about.

That does not make you look cool.

Simone Collins: That I think could really happen. It’s more likely to happen also with the rise of AI is women have a more difficult [00:49:00] time. Getting jobs that increasingly don’t exist anymore. And don’t have the aptitude required to engage in AI fueled entrepreneurialism or to go into trade roles that were historically dominated by men that are still going to maintain some relevance and strength over time.

So they’re going to turn to being a more traditional homemaker and wife as a career, which I think will also drive, even if this isn’t in, in backlash to hookup culture. I think it’s an economic driver that will make women naturally more sexually conservative and therefore also politically conservative.

‘cause I think it’s also very hard to engage in this level of political polarization. If you know a man and are friends with a man and don’t, you know, turn them into straw men and monsters that you never actually engage with.

Malcolm Collins: That’s a good point. Well, I I, I, I feel like you’re onto something with this one.

And I [00:50:00] appreciate that you know, you made the effort to find me that was really thoughtful of you, that you went out there and you actually tried dating and emailing people. ‘cause I had seen your profile and I was never gonna email it. I, I thought she appeared. Too arbitraged, right? Like it was all the nerd stuff.

She actually took pictures from the angles that made it look like she might be fat and trying to hide it. Which she was unaware of the angles, so she didn’t know. But I’d had to deal with that too many times.

Simone Collins: Were you actually catfished by rotund people a bunch of

Malcolm Collins: times? Oh, all the time. I actually say it was maybe a quarter of dates were significantly fatter than they made themselves look.

Simone Collins: Well, I guess female. What, 60% of American women are obese, correct. Or overweight at least.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and I’m, I am incredibly sensitive to weight in terms of looks. I think overweight women are very, very unattractive. I, I’d go further is to say, you know, how we talk about arousal to disgusted like pipeline of of systems.

I get a very strong disgusted response from obese people of both genders [00:51:00] actually.

Simone Collins: So had I not been aggressive we never would have connected because you thought I would catfish you. And to be clear, the reason why Malcolm went on a date with me, even though he thought that my profile may have indicated that I was fat, was he made me friend him on Facebook so that he could see all of the photos that other people had tagged me in.

That other people took. Yeah, because that’s a really easy way to tell, like you, you can’t trust a girl’s own photos of her because who knows how face tuned and angled they are. But when someone else, especially a female friend knowing meat blocking material would, would post a photo of them, which is going to be.

Less than flattering on average.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You met a girl later at a party who was like, oh yeah, we were talking on cu okay cubit, but you wouldn’t meet up with me ‘cause I wouldn’t share my Facebook. And I was like, and she wasn’t fat, but I was just like, no, wasn’t hard rule, you know, I do not wanna waste time.

This is what high throughput screening is about, right? Mm-hmm. And the, and the reason I was so aggressive about it was how frequently I was catfished.

Simone Collins: Yep. [00:52:00] Absolutely.

Malcolm Collins: And women, by the way in, in their defense, do not really understand that they’re catfishing a guy. They’re, they’re trying to show you the most flattering images of them that they have.

Right. Like, that seems like a natural thing to want to do.

Simone Collins: Especially imagine these also have like some level of body dysmorphia, like they don’t actually understand, or they’re not willing to even steer into the void and acknowledge that they look the way they actually look.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That they’re actually not very attractive.

Mm-hmm. Now. To the question of whether humanity will speciate I think we already know the answer. The answer is yes. Obviously, like, obviously there’s gonna be a group of humans that become an all male society. There’s gonna be a group of humans that become an all female society, and there’ll be a group of humans that stay in a society structured similar to the one today is likely what’s gonna happen.

Just I thought

Simone Collins: I, I just heard my take on. I think that we’re gonna self-correct. This will be, there will be a market correction

Malcolm Collins: because there’s always gonna be, the question is, is how big are these fringe groups going to be? Oh God. But I think, you know, could they be 10% of the population? [00:53:00] It depends on how good they are at breeding, how good they are at motivating the next generation coming into existence.

They might be significantly better than the mainstream population at breeding, right? Like they may just be able to have kids at a faster rate and motivate caring for kids at a higher rate because they’re not worried about caring about a romantic partner. They’re like the core loving relationship I am having access to in my life, because I wouldn’t even consider a.

A male partner or a female partner mm-hmm. Is the relationship I may have between me and my kids one day. The problem kind of with male female society is the core loving relationship that people are taught to, key to is the partnership they’re gonna have with their spouse, not the partnership they’re gonna have with their kids.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So, you may actually have a higher motivation to have kids in a all male and all female society. It just depends on how that, that ends up working out. But I would be very surprised if no group ends up doing this. What I can say is that if you have an all female society and the data is gonna show you this.

It’s not gonna be able to compete. Like if it ever gets to this stage like it does in this anime where they’re at war [00:54:00] with each other, obviously the all male society would just wipe the floor with the all female society. You can look at IQ distribution curves. You can look at aggressiveness scores, you can look at basically anything, right?

Like the chess champions, right? Like there is a reason why, like, it’s not just on like physical strings. Why? I think it’s like only like 10 out of the last thousand. If you, if you rank the top thousand players or women or something it’s, it’s not a lot. They women would be at a, let’s say, heavily leaned into genetic augmentation.

They’d be at a massive disadvantage. Mm-hmm. But anyway thoughts, Simone, final closing thoughts.

Simone Collins: This timeline’s weird. But yeah, I I just can’t believe that I, I grew up thinking that sexual promiscuity was fine and acceptable. But it’s still bizarre to me that now I, I favor prudishness. And this is also bizarre in light of the fact that you’re the only person I’ve ever had sex with despite, despite [00:55:00] having growing up thought that.

So I also feel very, very lucky to have been too autistic and

Malcolm Collins: want guys

Simone Collins: too disinterested in, in, in general promiscuous sex to like, have fallen for this because the average person, I think really would. And I guess it’s something we’re gonna have to very carefully address with our daughters.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Well, and our sons in terms of pushing through and how to convert women, so.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Love you, Simone.

Simone Collins: I love you too, Malcolm.

Malcolm Collins: I am feeling, oh, my stomach is hurting so bad right now. And I think I realized why. Well, Dan, Dan

Simone Collins: sauce, you’re allergic to it.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, and I only had one soda today and most days I have like six or seven sodas. So

Simone Collins: you’re going through some kind of,

Malcolm Collins: so it could be a caffeine withdrawal.

Simone Collins: You sure. ‘cause every time you’ve made yourself Dan, Dan based dishes in the past you’ve had stomach problems.

Malcolm Collins: But I didn’t eat Dan Dan yesterday.

Simone Collins: Yeah, but you had it two days in a row before.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but I would’ve noticed that beforehand. [00:56:00]

Simone Collins: Hmm. Okay. I was thinking I should use the remaining ground meat that you got when I was in Austin today for your dinner. What would you like me to do with it?

Malcolm Collins: My stomach is far too

Simone Collins: queasy.

Oh, grilled cheese sandwiches.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, grilled cheese sandwiches would be great.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: I’ll

Simone Collins: do the,

Malcolm Collins: the.

Simone Collins: Should I be making just like hamburger patties with that for the kids? Like do you not want it again or should I save it tomorrow?

Malcolm Collins: No, I do want it. Just wait.

Simone Collins: Okay. We can only wait so many days with ground meat that’s fresh, but tomorrow will be fine though.

Just a note.

Malcolm Collins: I understand Simone.

Simone Collins: Mm. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: And yes, I got the statistics here.

Simone Collins: As do I. You want me to kick it off? Shall we go?

Malcolm Collins: Anything else today? Any news? Let’s see how the episode’s doing.

Simone Collins: The episode was, last time I checked, four out of 10. People liked it. People are like, well, obviously this is how it is.[00:57:00]

The nonprofits are

Malcolm Collins: terrible funded. The kk k

Simone Collins: everyone knew this. I love that. Alex Jones had called it once again

Malcolm Collins: the, wait, he had, he said that the KKK was funded by Democrats.

Simone Collins: No, I think he said the Southern Poverty Law Center funded the really bad protest. I’m forgetting what it was called. The Charlottesville Charlottesville protest.

Charlotte. Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Really? That’s a good call, by the way. The,

Simone Collins: the, the water’s turning. The frogs gay and Yeah, the Southern Poverty Law Center

Malcolm Collins: Oh no. Gets, gets it a Sandy Hook, uhoh. Oh. Is he gonna be

Simone Collins: right

Malcolm Collins: on that?

Simone Collins: I hope so. I mean, it’s one of those things where like, I really, I would love a world in which those like innocent children were not shot.

And killed. So I would love for that to be true. I would really like throw in all the other stuff. I’ll take that one. I, I really can’t stand children’s.

Malcolm Collins: I cannot believe that they were funding the KKK and actual Nazis

Simone Collins: [00:58:00] high ROI for fundraising.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: I, I just, I, I can’t imagine how much money they’re raising if the salaries of their leadership team, pretty large leadership team are like $250,000 plus, though I don’t know why their chief legal counsel was making over $250,000 a year and still walked them straight into this.

Disaster. You think they would’ve warned them?

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, I, I don’t think it, I don’t think it was a disaster. I think it was kind of the opposite until they were caught for it. If you remember the KKK and neo Nazi groups of the United States, as I pointed out when we were doing that episode, had basically gone extinct as of like 10 years ago.

Like, you’d see one of the rallies and it’d be like two or three old guys walking in a sad suburban town or something like that, and a bunch of people yelling at them.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And then they start funding it all, and now all of a sudden we’re getting like giant tiki torch marches and stuff like this, which allowed for them to create BLM, which got them tons of [00:59:00] money.

Right. They, they actually benefited enormously for the racial anxiety that they were able to create from this.

Simone Collins: No, they super did. Someone had posted a comment linking to two dudes talking on YouTube, who I guess are. Racist ‘cause they were going on about how like, wow, we’ve raised a lot of money for the Southern Poverty Law Center and like they’ve included photos of us in their fundraising documents and like, how much have we, why aren’t they paying?

Ow. Oh my God, it’s okay. You just have really sharp teeth. He put my finger, that child who was bit by Charlie

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Actually took it like really well. Considering how sharp baby’s teeth are

Malcolm Collins: and how little they care about using full power on

Simone Collins: a finger.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: They’re like, let’s go, let’s take this thing off.

Right?

Malcolm Collins: No, no. He’s looking around like, I don’t want that finger.

Simone Collins: You want it? He does. You [01:00:00] noodle.

Malcolm Collins: We got a one shot that women in our audience and the wanting babies.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Hey, there were not a lot of babies on YouTube before us. You know, like, I think

Simone Collins: there were lots of funny Fridays and all the other, like, Christian YouTubers like to talk about these horrible women who put their babies on, on the videos as they record, I think who’s the couple that’s famously deconstructing now.

And one had done all those sex courses. She used to have her baby on the video a lot.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah. God, what is her, what’s her name? Basically,

Simone Collins: no, not classically, Abby. It was, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: it wasn’t classically Abby. It was

Simone Collins: those two sisters who went on to,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Simone Collins: Married dudes.

Malcolm Collins: I know who you’re talking about.

People, the, the left used to love to profile them, and then they, and that’s all I know them from.

Simone Collins: Right? Well, I think she started the, the couple, they both started deconstructing and then it was like less interesting I think for people because they started questioning their faith and not being so hard line.

Which [01:01:00] I think is probably to their detriment. I don’t know. I, I don’t know.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, I will, I mean, maybe they still have a, a big audience somewhere out there.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

No, I wish the best for them, but they, they had a baby in their feed and she, you know, she would fuss with the baby just like I do. And I always think I’m, I, I just think of all the criticisms of her when I have texts.

You haven’t

Malcolm Collins: gotten much criticism for having our children in videos.

Simone Collins: Oh, very regularly. People complain about the, the noises, the baby noises. I just can’t watch it with the baby noises where.

Malcolm Collins: Reflexively be like, how dare you put kids in a video? How dare you put kids in a video? And like, we just don’t get that very much.

I think it’s because they’re, they’re like more mad at us for other things, so they just don’t care. I saw one video where somebody was like, oh, that kid heard you guys talk about sex on the podcast. He’s gonna get messed up. Right? Like, and I’m like, how, how do you think babies work? Right? Like,

Simone Collins: you know, [01:02:00] as has been discussed, and this is a conversation that’s kind of come up between me and so many people this week, people just don’t have exposure to babies anymore or children.

So they don’t understand them. They appear to believe that they understand full sentences. They don’t understand what it’s like to be around them. They’ve never held a baby. True. Most, you know, most people even who are very social, have not held a baby for like a year at least. Even if they’re around other people who around their age are probably having kids.

So, you know. It’s not great.

Don’t

Malcolm Collins: mess on the internet. Who just wanna criticize people?

Speaker 11: There’s the same top, there’s, there’s the dinosaur in there and there’s the beagle, the same beagle. There’s the whole culture. It’s the same little culture like this. There’s dinosaurs just being detected. You sound really excited. Yeah, we got some Mandarins classic books. More side than horse. And what about you?

Speaker 10: You got a panda bear? [01:03:00] Well.

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