The Jewish Social Technology That (Used To) Mitigate Antisemitism Was Inverted

In this spicy Based Camp episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins tackle a sensitive but urgent topic: why Jews must stop defending bad actors within their communities — and why failing to do so is fueling rising antisemitism in America.

With 24% of young Americans now endorsing antisemitic tropes (vs. just 5% of those in their 80s), the Collinses examine welfare fraud in Orthodox Jewish communities, the ADL’s deplatforming of critics like Tyler Olivier, the Chabad-linked push to pardon a $33M healthcare fraudster whose actions killed elderly patients, and the collapse of historic Jewish self-policing institutions (kehillot and beit din) that once prevented exactly this problem.

They argue that protecting bad actors creates massive negative externalities, damages alliances with the new right, and threatens the long-term survival of Jewish communities — especially as ultra-Orthodox populations grow rapidly. A blunt, data-driven conversation about group accountability, cultural self-preservation, and why every community (Jewish, Somali, or otherwise) must police its worst members.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. Today is going to be a spicy conversation and it’s going to piss off a lot of people, but it is one that needs to be had right now in America. We, we mentioned this on another episode, but Jews need to be paying attention to this.

24% of young people in America today endorse anti-Jewish tropes, right? Like are what you would be seen as antisemitic. Oh, oh, no. If you go to people in the, their eighties, it’s around 5%. Oh. So it’s one in four versus one in 20. This is a massive generational change.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: And I would point out here that the sentiment against Jews among use higher than it is against groups like blacks in the United States.

Now where it is 17% have anti-black resentment in the United States where it’s 24% anti-Jewish resentment.

Simone Collins: That’s so [00:01:00] funny because I grew up on like seventies, eighties, and nineties content that pretty heavily made fun of Jews. Like, I’m thinking about Mel Brooks Films, the Princess Bride all these shows that would have like a ton of like, seen

Malcolm Collins: it as safe because nobody actually, when I used to, ‘cause

Simone Collins: no one believed it.

No one

Malcolm Collins: edgy fake humor, like racist humor. I would make racist jokes about Inuits. That was like the core commun Eskimos, you know, they, you know, make Oh

Simone Collins: right.

Malcolm Collins: Make, make fun of their fake kisses. They don’t even know how to love, you know, like, everybody thinks Eskimo jokes are funny because nobody is aware of Eskimo discrimination.

At least if you’re in the United States, like it’s not something that you are around or you see. So it comes across as funny. Sure. The idea of Jews being actually discriminated against in the eighties and the nineties was actually comical. It, it was,

Simone Collins: right. So we, we, we could make fun of them because we knew that they were [00:02:00] fine and they weren’t.

Doing anything

Malcolm Collins: sauce. It was so comical that when Jewish directors and producers were making the Star Wars prequels, they literally made this character

Simone Collins: Oh God, yes. No,

Speaker 14: My trick don’t work on, I make only money.

Simone Collins: and

Malcolm Collins: thought nothing of it. Yes. Alright. They didn’t think this could one day be a problem for our community. And the, the problem, like the thing that makes this entire conversation so dangerous for the Jewish community long term, like when I’m projecting what happens long term with Judaism

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Is that somebody comes out there and says, Hey it looks like antisemitism is exploding right now. And then the obvious next question is, is why. Right? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: And then the obvious next question is. Okay. Is it entirely due to some sort of external social contagion that has nothing to do with Jewish communities?

Simone Collins: Which could be possible, or

Malcolm Collins: it [00:03:00] could be possible, but that’s actually much worse for Jewish communities, if that’s true, because it’s much harder to change the behavior of people other than yourself, than in

Simone Collins: yourself.

Yeah, it’s preferable. And I, I’m, I’m giving the example because after I brought up a bunch of theories around why there’s so much Indian immigrant hate one person wrote to us, and I, I’m gonna try to put an episode together about it, but they wrote to us and shared fairly abundant evidence indicating that a lot of the.

Indian immigrant hate is actually AstroTurf by Muslim Indians and Pakistanis who just really freaking hate Hindi Indians. And

that and

Malcolm Collins: Canadians

Simone Collins: that like, even, like, not even so, I mean, there is some job resentment, but like, not nearly to the level that you see online.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Simone Collins: But like, that’s, that’s an example of something that could be at least in large part external and not caused by internal activity.

‘cause you know, like there’s a very large immigrant community here that is Indian and [00:04:00] there’s not. There’s not a lot of like hate a about it, people like

Malcolm Collins: them. There is not I, but I can, yeah. I, and I can say this very concretely. So we live outside of Philadelphia. Mm-hmm. We live in a majority Indian neighborhood.

Our neighborhood is 70% Indian. Mm-hmm. And I have not seen any anti-Indian sentiment amongst any of my neighbors, any of the, the friends at Octavian school.

Simone Collins: Well, and keep in mind, I ran for office in our, in our area. Right. I attended a ton of conservative Republican events. I knocked doors on the houses of hundreds of Republicans who lived here.

Only once. Only once. ‘cause I will say that there was one time when one person said one thing and they’re just like, well, I don’t like all these kids running around in the streets. And that was it. It was, oh, God forbid that these people actually are happy and have children that run in the streets like I would want my kids to do.

And this is like a safe

Malcolm Collins: place. And keep in mind that you might be like, well, you don’t participate with the edgy conservative groups. No, we participate with the edgy. We, we are like friends with the people who ran a lot of [00:05:00] the Trump campaign stuff. Mm-hmm. And, and as we’re known as like rightwing influencers, we get and edgy rightwing influencers, we get invented to the edgy parties where people make.

You know, racialist jokes and stuff like that. Even, even just to be educated,

Simone Collins: anyone wanted to say something about resenting Indian immigrants in our Indian immigrant heavy community? They would’ve told me immediately because all of the like, attacks made against me were like, look at this evil, racist woman.

So they would’ve told me ‘cause they would’ve thought that, like the, the, the rumors were true. So I just wanna, I wanna illustrate that anyway. So, but this does not seem to be something, one thing where the Jew hate is endogenous or It does

Malcolm Collins: seem to be, but the, the side point I wanted to make to the Indian comments, I do think that there is actual Indian resentment talking to the United States.

I just don’t think it’s in our region very

Simone Collins: much. Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And it’s important and, and especially in Canada, there are actual communities where it is normal, but Canada’s getting a completely different type of Indian immigrant than we’re getting here.

Simone Collins: Well, and I’ll, I’ll add that it’s, I think especially among tech workers where they [00:06:00] see that.

People are actually just hiring

Malcolm Collins: Indians

Simone Collins: Non Yeah. They’re firing qualified American citizens and hiring, honestly less qualified Indian immigrants. There is obvious resentment, but yeah, the pocket,

Malcolm Collins: we need regulations around that. That’s a whole other thing that we can get to in another video where you could go watch the video where she crashes out about Indians because she goes on a 30 minute rant about all of the valid complaints people have about Indians.

But in this episode, we’re talking about you, Simone, just to, just to, great. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Just out of the frying pan into the fire. Let’s go.

Malcolm Collins: If we often talk about the trans community, right? And I’m like, basically in the group that has ended up becoming the new right. Many of, or the majority of whom used to be leftists.

We sort of originally approached the trans thesis was the idea of, okay, we can give this community some additional rights so they can do their weird, whatever thing that they want to [00:07:00] do. And so long as they don’t abuse those additional rights it’s fine. Right? And, and of course, if they did abuse those additional rights that would be punished within the community first and most aggressively,

Simone Collins: right?

‘cause that would threaten their sovereignty and rights and acceptance.

Malcolm Collins: Exactly. And when we saw that the opposite was happening, that the community kept from the most institutional levels, from the highest levels of the community, protecting their worse actors and going out of their way to protect their worse actors it then creates a situation where the, any, any community that’s abutting them has to attack the entire community to deal with the negative externality of that community’s worst actors.

If I’m going to word this a different way, okay. Let’s suppose we’re not talking about trans people or Jewish people here. We’re talking about blurbs and TURs. Okay. Either two [00:08:00] groups and some blurbs, sometimes grape. Little TURs. Okay? And so a turb mob comes over to the blurbs, right? And they’ve all got pitchforks.

And they say, that man right there, great. One of our children. And we can prove it. And then the blurb leader comes out and says if you wanna pull him out of our community and put him in a prison, you need to go through all of us and put us all in prison. Now, if I’m a blurb who’s not that particular elected leader, I am likely like the evilest person in that room right now, the person I am most terrified of is that leader, right?

It’s not even the mob, because that leader is turning me and the entire community into grist over something that obviously, if somebody in our community is acting like a bad actor and we are preventing them from being punished. [00:09:00] We, we make our entire community an a negative externality to anyone we’re around.

And recently, on multiple occasions, the Jewish community has done this in spades. And when I say in spades, I mean to an attempt that he is so egregious that I would ask. And like I, I know we have Jewish friends, I’m gonna, I’m gonna put together a plan to stop this because Jews used to have cultural institutions that were entirely designed to stop exactly this phenomenon.

Okay. But these cultural institutions basically failed in the, I wanna say 1600 or 17 hundreds. Oh. What happened after the 15 hundreds for Jews? Oh, is that when Pogrom started picking up? All I’m saying is there, wait,

Simone Collins: what existed before then that stopped this? What, what is this magical dance?

Malcolm Collins: So there are multiple Jewish institutions that when a Jew [00:10:00] would scam or go out of their way to hurt non-Jews that were living alongside the Jewish community mm-hmm. The Jewish community would heavily financially punish them, shun them, and expel them. Wow. And, and that is very, very useful thing to do.

Speaker 3: To give an idea of how severe these were. , We have recordings of Jews for minor, and note this wasn’t just for major things. It’s noted that for even minor scams or misrepresentations to gentiles, , something was applied to them. It’s a Jew word. I don’t know what it means exactly. , Jews will know it, but it meant that that person’s kids were not even considered marryable.

So it didn’t just apply to you, it applied to your entire genetic line.

Speaker 7: So just with some research in front of me here, , these institutions were called

Keala and Bit din, , or in English communal councils and rabbinic courts. , They were specifically active between.

[00:11:00] 1017 50 ce. , And if you do an analysis, so you look for pogroms, this is mass Jewish killings, pre 1750. , You do have some and some that were, were very large. , Like the Commensally uprising, however. , If you just on average look at pogroms per year and how severe those Prague groms were during that period, and then contrast it with the period after these institutions had collapsed, , you see enormously more like it’s an order of magnitude more in terms of violence and frequency that you had pogroms after these institutions had collapsed.

So, , just an AI’s thoughts on this. , Pre 1750 violence was often tied to existential crises, plagues, crusades, uprising with fewer, but sometimes larger single events. EEG, kaminsky’s rivaled or exceeded many later waves in raw death Hold. Post 1750s saw more frequent repeated [00:12:00] waves of pogroms, hundreds per wave.

And this, , you know, culminating with the Holocaust, right? So these institutions actually appeared to serve their role. They appeared to significantly reduce. Antisemitism and the Jewish community has ever since they collapsed, been demonstrably, I think weakened in their ability to operate.

And the reason I put so much , emphasis on you used to have this technology is Judaism as a religion. If they want to adopt something, they can’t just go up and be like, I have a new idea about how we should do something. If they can say, here’s how we used to do it. Look at the pogroms per year when we did this.

Look at the pogroms per year after we did this. , That can be pretty persuasive because you have both a mathematical, a historic, and a religious argument for reinstituting. These, .

Malcolm Collins: But today you have an instance where the two of the big instances that we’re gonna go over that are really emblematic of this is major YouTube streamer ends up covering a [00:13:00] community of,

Simone Collins: Orthodox Jews living, I think somewhere in New York City.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Tyler Olivier, like would videos. This guy goes along. He goes to various groups that are doing bad things, immigration fraud throwing poo at each other in India, which is just like a cultural festival.

Simone Collins: And even just general crime in New York that is not specific to a, a group.

Malcolm Collins: Right. But the point is, is that he has targeted other specific sub ethnic groups in the past four things that are a, a group doing a local traditional festival around like feces throwing is far more racially inflammatory because that’s a, just a traditional festival that’s really only hurting that community potentially.

Then

Simone Collins: it’s

Malcolm Collins: strict giving their

Simone Collins: immune system. It looked fine.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Welfare fraud by Orthodox Jewish communities in New Jersey. Right? Like this, the, the fraud that he was pointing out has been historically documented. It’s been documented in multiple Orthodox Jewish communities. It is even [00:14:00] in this case, extremely well documented.

Like this is not a going out there and promoting some sort of stereotype or something like this. This community is acting as genuine bad actors in a way that is hurting the quality of life. Like our economic system. The people around them are suffering because of the way that this community is abusing the US tax system and welfare system.

And we’ll go into other instances of this, but in this instance, what was so wild about this is the a DL, you do not get more mainstream of a Jewish organization. Then the A DL?

Simone Collins: No, this was news to me. I didn’t think the Anti-Defamation League was Jewish per se. I thought they were just broadly progressive,

Or not.

Malcolm Collins: I’ve always thought of them as a predominantly Jewish organization.

Simone Collins: Really.

Malcolm Collins: What’s the, what’s the other Jewish organization? Let’s see if they also went out against him.

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I don’t know of any big Jewish [00:15:00] nonprofits aside from, I don’t know, whoever, whatever foundation made the Holocaust museums possible or whatever foundations.

I didn’t think there were like Jewish led charities that had big leading names.

Malcolm Collins: It’s the a DL

Simone Collins: Really? It’s just known for being Jewish.

Malcolm Collins: The mainstream Jewish, quote unquote protection nonprofit is the Anti-Defamation league, the A DL.

Simone Collins: Okay, so that’s like the main organization, famous for fighting antisemitism explicitly.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. The mission, the official mission of the A DL is to stop the defamation of Jewish people. Oh. And secure justice and fair treatment for all.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay. I didn’t know, sorry.

Malcolm Collins: So the A DL comes out okay.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Attacks him and he is immediately de platformed. From, from platforms like Patreon in me

Simone Collins: after having, yeah.

He’s posted things that are inflammatory. So it’s not like this was just too [00:16:00] spicy for people. Wow.

Malcolm Collins: No, it was, it was that the Jewish community, when he spotted real fraud went out and, and, and this is now, if you are a Jewish person, the Jews at the A DL that did this, they are an existential threat to the Jewish community.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Because they, they have now said is, as long as Jews have cultural and political power in the United States, we will not allow you to punish or even notice or talk about bad actors within our community. But this wasn’t the only instance recently. Another egregious instance is there was $33 million of healthcare fraud by an Orthodox Jewish individual.

Obviously like we freak out when the Somalians do this, like Trump and the administration should be freaking out when an Orthodox Jew does this,

Simone Collins: right? It doesn’t matter who you are. Any, any form of especially fraud using people’s taxpayer money,

Malcolm Collins: this fraud was killing people. [00:17:00] Old people were dying because of this fraud.

This is like on record, okay? This guy was a monster, and that is not disputed even by the organizations that attempted to defend him. But a large organization that we’ll be going into

Speaker 4: Note, not a fringe or extremist Jewish organization either. This is the mainstream CHABAD Jewish organization for protecting Jewish prisoners.

Malcolm Collins: that’s entire purpose is to fight for freedom for Orthodox Jewish individuals. Convince the Trump administration to give this person a pardon.

Not because they do not think that his actions led to people’s deaths, not because they do not think that he stole from the American taxpayer through fraud, but because he’s an Orthodox Jew.

Simone Collins: Wow,

Malcolm Collins: this is really existentially bad for the Jewish community.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that is bad. I had no idea. [00:18:00] That’s terrible.

Malcolm Collins: That is. That’s really,

Simone Collins: really bad.

Malcolm Collins: That’s terrible.

Speaker 8: If you are wondering how they could conceivably signal that this was an okay thing to do. The core argument that the administration made, , when releasing him is that he didn’t personally, financially benefit from his fraud. That it was mostly to keep a failing business alive, which is factually untrue.

He stole, we know he stole at least $5 million personally as a ghost salary. I think the argument is that he had to pay it back in fines or something after he was caught, but it’s like, yeah, but he intended to steal it. Right. , And, , there’s still people fighting for money from this, so No, it’s not that everyone has been reimbursed or anything like that, uh, but that most of the fraud was done to try to protect a failing business that had overextended.

, But that doesn’t, , if you have a. Failing business, especially a hospital that’s caring for elderly and in affirmed individuals. And you, because of the way that you are conducting fraud, to try to keep that alive [00:19:00] are leading to people’s deaths. And for people suffering, at a large scale, , you need to let that fail.

Like not being able to let your business fail in committing fraud at this scale is not, , an ethical thing to do. Especially while stealing to the tune of $5 million from the failing company exacerbating the problems like this. This picture of somebody who just let things get a bit out of hands doesn’t work when you consider the 5 million that he stole during this process that’s on record.

,

Speaker 8: And people are like, oh, he had a external accounting group that was handling the fraud on his behalf. I mean, it’s shown in court records. He knew and he pleaded guilty to knowing the fraud was happening. , But in addition to that, like I, I’m actually okay, like if, if somebody was like, look, if employees were doing this, he just then wanted to protect their jobs.

Okay, fine.

I have helped cover for my own employees moral Laughes in the past as a boss. It’s something that just happens and [00:20:00] comes up, and if that was what he was going through, then I would understand. But that doesn’t explain the $5 million that he took out in ghost salaries, and that’s what we know of. That’s the fraud. We were able to prove $5 million, , that requires active action on his behalf. Not an external accounting firm or anything like that, like I’m trying here. Okay. But this was just a bad actor who didn’t care about the lives that he destroyed.

And people are like, well, he’s old. He would’ve died in prison. Good, good. , This is why we have a prison system, right? I want the Somalians who do this stuff going to prison. I want Jews who do this stuff to go outta prison. I, it shouldn’t matter what community someone is from. And the simple effing optics of this, that habad an organization that is staffed by otherwise saying intelligent people, knowing the sentiment in America right now against the Jewish people growing in negativity, knowing.

What a hot button [00:21:00] issue because of the Somalian fraud stuff that we’re dealing with because of Nick Shirley’s reporting fraud of exactly this type is that they would go out of their way to almost pathologically attempt to free, an obvious bad actor and do it successfully. Did no one in the organization stop to ask what are the optics of this?

. And I think that, well, apparently not. , And. That was because there was no institution for causing or creating any sort of reward mechanism for asking that, because it doesn’t matter to them if they do an action that on the whole hurts the Jewish people, if it helps their status within their circles of Jewish society, which this did and reinstating these old courts would allow that.

And I think that this is , really important for individual like. The Jews who are hearing this and want to yell at me for this right now, these individuals did not ask, how is this action going [00:22:00] to reflect on the way that broader Jews are treated within society? , Antisemitism more broadly, , the.

Question in their head is, how does this affect my standing within my circle of Jewish society? , And that’s really bad that that’s the case, but it can be fixed.

Speaker 10: Also another externality that Jews should think of when they’re thinking about the importance of building a system to address these issues is how something like this affects non-Jews who defend the Jewish community. , When we saw Charlie Kirk near the end, say something like, I’m thinking about turning against the Jewish community, or having Candace Owens gone on.

Because I am sick of after I do X, Y, or Z to defend them, then this comes out after me. Then I get accused of X, Y, or Z. . I, I think that like there isn’t an internal thinking of, we have people, we, Jews have people [00:23:00] outside the Jewish community like Simone and I are often accused of being overly pro jewish. , We’re, I mean, the reason we’re proje is because we’re pro strengths and Jews are out competing other groups in many fields, right?

Like, we like groups that do well and are technologically and economically productive, especially high fertility groups. Like there is a. Existential reason we are pro jewish,, which is very instrumental if they weren’t those things. Then we would be anti-Jewish. , , , it’s not like for some biblical reason or something like that, or even because I like individual Jewish people.

, There’s a lot of groups where I have a lot of friends from that group. But I still think in aggregate that group, , is, , an economic and technological drain on the global world, but. The point I’m making here is take somebody like Simone and I’m, , who get flack.

You know, we do burn some of our credibility, , when we are seen as defending Jewish interests. , And. Then we see something like this happen. Mainstream [00:24:00] organizations like the A DL and Habad, , going out of their way to, , protect bad actors within Jewish communities instead of working to address in themselves.

, Because then people who have heard me defend Jewish things in the past, they come to, they go, Malcolm, you see this is proof that you’re wrong about. Helping the Jews, defending the Jews, seeing the Jews as a group that we can have as good actors in American society. , And it makes me look stupid and it makes me and all of the other non-Jewish people who defend the Jewish community less likely to do it in the future.

The externalities from actions like this are manifold.

Speaker 12: And for those viewers on the other side who hold a more anti-Semitic sentiment and are upset at us for always coming off as overly , philio, semetic, keep in mind. We are willing to criticize. We have a number of episodes that are quite critical of Jewish community and history. , Our support for the [00:25:00] Jewish community, as we have said, is instrumental to my goals for civilization.

And if actions of that community make it look like that is no longer the case. Then my opinion changes if portions of that community grow fast. Because there are definitely portions of the Jewish community that, , are extremely low technology, extremely hostile to outsiders and very high fertility. If those portions end up becoming the dominant Jewish population or controlling Jewish institutions, , didn’t.

Obviously I would not continue to take actions that are as supportive to the wider Jewish people. , I’m not like a, you know, whatever, who was it? Ted Cruz or whatever, who’s like, oh yeah, I’ll support Israel for whatever, because the Bible told me to. I’m like, no, it’s useful for my goals as things are right now, but if things change, then it may no longer be useful to my goals.

Malcolm Collins: And so many Jews are gonna go because every time we do a video like this, they come into the comments [00:26:00] and they say something like, because they feel like this is a normal thing to say. When somebody says something like this or brings up topics like this, that I am being anti-Semitic by saying this stuff, you are the problem.

You are the reason why Now 25% of young people have decided that they are anti-Semitic. Okay? Because the dominant culture, like different cultures react to injustices in different ways. But the dominant culture, especially within the right in the United States. When they see somebody calling out genuine bad action, and then another person attempting them to, attempting to silence them by saying something like, you are being racist, or you’re being transphobic, or you’re being homophobic, or you’re being anti-Semitic because Wokes use that for so long.

So we developed cultural technologies against that, right? Like, this is one of the core things that has changed within the new right, is people can no longer go to us and say, oh, you like anime? That’s nerdy. I’m like, suck it. Or you, you, that’s degenerate. Or that’s a against a

like people are like, oh, how do, how do you police behavior without being able to [00:27:00] shame people for this, this, or that? It’s like, we do not allow that at always in our communities anymore. Mm-hmm. Because Wokes then grabbed that social technology and realized they could use it, right? They could reclassify what these categories were and they could use it.

And that a better way to promote good actions is through modeling it. Right? Like in the way I treat my wife, in the way I live, in the way I’m having kids, in the way I try to interact with others. I try to model good behavior and that is how we, because we were like, oh, how could you ever have good behavior unless you shame de degeneracy?

And it’s like, look, I understand that that used to work when we were more culturally uniform, but Wokes figured out how to use that. And so we haven’t been using that as a cultural technology for a while. In fact, we’ve been reflexively being like, Ew, what a loser. Like anybody who attempts to shame people along these categories, Jews are, because it worked for them for a long time, still reflexively attempting to use this social technology.

And what they do not see is it is isolating them. From the one group [00:28:00] and from the, the wider, like of of, of the groups in the United States, the group that is most open to one allying with Israel and helping Jews within the United States is the new. Right. Just like without, like Wokes, when you see Jewish students running from people on campus and locking themselves in the library because they’re afraid of being beaten up.

Mm-hmm. These are leftists who are doing this. You, you are aware of this, like the leftists regularly host rallies in the United States where they say from the river to the sea, they, they want you exterminated. Right? Like this is not, you have one group you can go to, right. That you can farm an alliance with and is open to that alliance.

Right. And that group is the wider new right coalition, but we’re also not effing stupid one, you come to us with this. Oh, you’re being antisemitic when clearly what I’m saying is not antisemitic. This is factual evidence. Or clearly, you know what Tyler Olivier. was saying when he made his video is not antisemitic.

Right? This was [00:29:00] like clear evidence Right. Of this stuff. And, and Jews know this stuff is happening. No, they’re not f*****g stupid Jews know about the fraud in or orthodox Jewish communities.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Right. And you can be like, well we have trauma because of a genocide.

And it’s like a lot of groups have had genocides against them. Okay. None of those groups come to me and attack us for saying, oh, you’re anti, ‘cause we attack all the groups on this, this, we have anti Quaker videos, we have anti-Catholic videos, and the only group that regularly reflexively freaks out and it is this reflexive freakout

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That is causing the drift even within the right. And if you look at the political breakdown, you can see the anti-Semitic sentiment is growing in the right at the same rate. It’s growing in the left. Right. But ideologically we’re not mulching in the streets saying from the river to the seas yet.

Right. Is to be aware where we are with you. I think Jews, because they are [00:30:00] used to perceiving themselves as having an alliance with the left, which is just not going to work going into the future.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: They listen to leftist criticism about stuff like Gaza, about stuff like the war in Iran. When I don’t care about this stuff, you’re helping us with this f*****g good.

Like, I kill him, whatever. Right. Like, yeah, you, I, I feel like the woman from south Park

Speaker 2: Really? That’s great! You mean you don’t mind? No! I hate

Malcolm Collins: Gaza,

Speaker 2: you go right

Speaker: ahead and plow down this whole f*****g thing! That’s swell!

Malcolm Collins: That’s the way I feel about all of that. But when you set up communities in the United States and actively scam our tax system and kill our elderly people, and then when our justice system attempts to do it things, or when our citizen reporters attempt to do the, the just thing and attack them.

Then how, how can I say that this is Toler. This is no longer a minority Jewish position. This is not a minority. Like the [00:31:00] people on the right will sometimes be like, oh, they randomly bombed some old church in whatever country. It’s like, yeah, it was in a fricking Muslim majority country. They were like, no Christians there anymore.

Whatever. Right? Like, I do not care about that. That that population had already wiped out the Christian population there. So, I’m wondering where all the Christians went over the past 20 years. Maybe I’m okay with them being bombed a little bit. Or they’ll be like, oh, look at this video of Jews spitting on Christians.

It’s like, and I can find videos of Christians spitting on Jews, right? Like, there’s plenty of Christians who hate Jews. That doesn’t mean that our two people cannot be allied with each other. But the very centers of Jewish power acting in this way that does prevent a meaningful alliance as well as Jews in stuff like the comments under this video saying, this is anti-Semitic to say.

That does prevent a durable alliance

Speaker 5: And don’t give me, oh, this is a woke Jews problem. We are discussing two organizations that have done this recently. One of them is the A DL. Okay. Maybe the A DL, but the other is a Habad [00:32:00] charity. Okay. If you are unfamiliar with who the Habad are, they are an Orthodox Jewish group. Okay. They’re, I think, the most mainstream sort of accepted by wider society, Orthodox Jewish group.

I.

Malcolm Collins: because the first people who should be going after the people who, who go into the comments and be like, this anti-Semitic, should be other Jews, right? Because that hurts the Jewish community. That is the person who says, when you come after bad actors and obvious bad actors, documented bad actors, I’m going to defend them.

Simone Collins: Well, so if I, my impression of when I, I think about comments I’ve heard from Jewish friends about groups like these is, they’re like, oh, that’s this subgroup. You know, they’re not mine. And I think there is this problem of Jewish communities being very sort of disconnected and balkanized to a certain extent and, and not centrally governed, of course.[00:33:00]

So it’s not like there’s some Vatican that could be like, we disavow this, this is wrong. It’s more like, well, there’s this, they’re this set that’s entirely sovereign and we have no control over them. I mean, I, I guess what you’re saying is

Malcolm Collins: right, and this is, this is you, you know, how you deal with that.

Simone Collins: How,

Malcolm Collins: There, there, so there’s really a few solutions to this from the perspective of Jewish populations. Okay. Solution number one, it’s create genuine group differentiation. If somebody was to go to me because I regularly do this on air, criticize the Vatican, and they were to say, well, you’re a Christian, like, how do you criticize the Vatican?

Or how do you criticize like this Protestant sect or that Protestant sect? It’s like, I’m not that sect. I don’t like that sect. I think that sect is an act like, and, and people do not confuse me with those sex.

Simone Collins: Do you not think that Jewish friends of ours have done that? To be like, that’s

Malcolm Collins: absolutely not.

Absolutely not.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: This is, this is a huge problem that Jews have. And there is a way around it, but [00:34:00] it is a huge problem when in like suppose. A Unitarian Universalist, a a a branch of Christianity mm-hmm. Acts as some super bad actor as they often do. Yeah. Pushes some woe nonsense. Right. And nobody would think of comparing us techno puritans or like evangelical Protestants.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: We,

Malcolm Collins: because we would say that group is heretical. That group is not like us. That group is not one of us, and it wouldn’t make sense to compare us. Right. Whereas Jews, they fastidiously do not do this. They say, Hey, even if you don’t follow the practices of Judaism anymore, even if you left, even if you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you’re still Jewish.

If you are Matrilineally Jewish. Mm-hmm. This creates a major, major problem. And even worse, if you’re like two a Jew, right. Like. An Orthodox Jew, right, like a, a reformed Jew is still a Jew, right? To an evangelical Protestant, a Unitarian Universalist is [00:35:00] not a Christian. And this is why they don’t get blamed as much because the Jewish community themselves, like the people who are in this video who are going to be claiming, oh, Malcolm, you’re being anti-Semitic.

The vast majority of them are probably gonna be reformed Jews because those are the people who react this way the most. Yet they are protecting an Orthodox Jewish community. These two communities are not the same community. It is the active lack of being willing to split and internally criticize that is, is causing ultra orthodox Jews to be blamed for what woke Jews are doing in Hollywood.

Mm-hmm. That have like culturally very few similarities to them. And it’s what’s causing woke Jews in Hollywood to be blamed what Ultraorthodox Jews are doing in Israel. Right. Like, but I actually would not advise the Jewish community to remove this tendency was in Judaism. It has a number of positive externalities for the Jewish community, basically making it very [00:36:00] hard for them to permanently split and allowing them to recombine whenever they want.

You can look our video on why don’t Jews have guns? It goes really deep into Jewish culture and why it is particularly resilient. And this is, this is one of its big superpowers. And you couldn’t even do it if you were a Jew. Like even if you were a Jew and you, and you tried to create like a splinter group of Judaism, it’s just so embedded in the Jewish mindset that all Jews are Jews that it would eventually recombine.

And in the mind of the general public, it wouldn’t happen.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: There’s the second cultural strategy. How do most groups prevent this? How did Jews prevent this historically speaking?

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: Well, they have either. Cultural traditions or legislative bodies for punishing people within their communities so that they can, like if within the Jewish community there was some sort of a council or something like that, that could pass judgment on high profile individuals, like individuals within the [00:37:00] A DL offer some kind of exy communication or financial fines or some other punishment that shows we, the Jewish community, do not approve of this behavior.

We do not approve of defending these individuals or what these ultra Orthodox communities are doing.

Simone Collins: Mm.

Malcolm Collins: And keep in mind, how did my cultural tradition handle this historically, because this is actually well documented. How did backwood people handle historically when somebody in our culture was making themselves a pest to people of surrounding cultures?

Oh they typically tortured and killed them and left their body somewhere public. So everybody, oh

Simone Collins: God. Wait, what is it? The backwards people in America did this. Oh

Malcolm Collins: yeah. They would, I mean, this is what like the regulators were, right? Like,

Simone Collins: the regulators, is this some formal societal term?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. They would have basically groups of, of young men would get together.

If somebody had gone out and like griped a girl or something like that. And they would, torture them and, [00:38:00] and kill them and leave them hanging from a tree. And everyone would see and everyone would be like, I guess I’m not gonna do that again.

Speaker 6: And I think this is one of those places where you can see my cultural biases, where they may, , clash with some other cultural groups we have in the right wing coalition show. Like when the United Healthcare CEO was killed, my first reaction was, oh, well that’s good, right? Like the legal system didn’t work.

So, , you know, now we do step two. , I’d also note here that this idea of communities policing themselves. Is actually very normative. Most communities do the exact opposite of this instead of. Attempting to protect their own bad actors. They make a point of going out of their way to punish their own bad actors.

So take rather than a cultural community. Let’s talk about like the whiter YouTube streamer community. Right? We have a bad actor like Johnny Somalia, , and Johnny Somalia. Is going to high trust countries and going around and [00:39:00] effing with people and pretty much the entire streamer community has been on board with doing everything that we in the wider community could to get this guy locked up.

Okay. When he was arrested in Korea. The community donated a legal fund for his prosecution, alright? Sent people over there to help with that fund to help make sure he saw jail time, right? This is what Jews should be doing when a Jew acts like a bad actor. Not the exact opposite.

Malcolm Collins: Now I’m not saying that this, that that Jews need to go as hard.

Jews didn’t do that historically. They did the Jewish version of that, which is taking away someone’s money. Which I have avatar. I have to wait to actually actually yes, that is historically how these Jewish cohorts worked.

Simone Collins: But no, you’re, you’re just, you must be describing though Jewish communities who are living in close [00:40:00] proximity, you know, like a, an insular Jewish community and that that is still what exists now.

I think the problem is that an entire Jewish community is being criticized for, for exploiting the US government essentially. No,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no,

Simone Collins: no. For leveraging open loopholes.

Malcolm Collins: Welfare, welfare fraud is rampant among ultra orthodox Jews in the United States. Both welfare and housing Fraud is, Uhhuh is very widely reported.

It’s very rampant bad acting.

Simone Collins: Okay. Can I, can I steal, man, this, can I steal, man? This.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, go.

Simone Collins: Like, they’re only having the most Jewish response, right? What is Judaism? But like, okay, here’s the law, right? And then they’re like, great, okay. How am I gonna work around this? Oh, I’ll just put like a piece of metal thread around things or, or golden thread.

Or I will you know, switch the, around this, this lampshade to work this way. Or, oh, I’m not allowed to let my hair. Show. Well then I’ll just wear a wig over my hair. And then that’s gonna be fine.

Malcolm Collins: Totally [00:41:00] understand what you’re saying.

Simone Collins: I totally understand. And so what, what they’re doing with the welfare fraud here is they’re like, oh, so the government has these rules.

Okay, so the government’s giving this money to these organizations. Well, then I will run the organization and you’ll buy from it. And then we were all, and from it just leveraging laws and they just need to close these loopholes. Totally, totally. Only reason they exist, Simon, is they’re, they’re faulty.

Malcolm Collins: I know you, you’re saying this, but you’re not thinking in the wider cultural context.

Okay. I even promoted the idea of I’m okay if you can screw over the system and get away with screwing over the system, that is completely fine. Like culturally. Yeah. Shame

Simone Collins: on the system,

Malcolm Collins: shame on the system, but. If you get caught or shamed for exploiting the system. And then because this is, this is the system working as it’s supposed to.

The guy who got arrested, the Jewish guy who got arrested mm-hmm. That was the system working as intended. The guy, the, the community that was being shamed by the YouTuber. That was the system working as expected.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But then when your community says, oh, we got caught, the system tried to [00:42:00] prevent our fraud, and then you attack the agents of the system that tried to shut you down, now you make it the entire community an existentially damaging thing to have operating within that system.

Simone Collins: That’s true. It it’s a bad strategic move. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It’s, it’s not a bad, it’s a, it’s a move that they can get around. So Judaism has like high councils of rabbis and stuff like that that they still use,

Simone Collins: that exist between

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: Among sects.

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: I,

Simone Collins: I didn’t know that. And what’s,

Malcolm Collins: what’s even more important is that these high rabbi councils and everything like that, the people who are going to listen to them the most are the ultra Orthodox Jews who have the biggest problem with these sorts of frauds.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: So if they said, look, antisemitism’s exploding right now, and where antisemitism matters most is in the right, because the rights, the community that is looking like it’s allying was Israel over [00:43:00] Europe. Mm-hmm. It looks like it’s the long-term natural ally for the Jewish people. If it’s exploding within our community because of like an existential thing that there just doesn’t like Jews, what would you do if there was a subpopulation living within Jewish communities regularly screwing you over?

And when you tried to do anything about it, they rounded the doors and tried to prevent you from doing anything about it. It’s like. Yeah, I’m pretty sure we know what you would do, right? Yeah. It’s not, ‘cause we’ve seen it, it’s not good before.

Simone Collins: Good. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You deal with it and I respect you for dealing with it, but know that I hold myself to those same standards, right.

And you would want allies that held themselves to those same standards. And this isn’t, again, Jews used to do this, which we’re gonna go over in a second. This isn’t even like, like you as a Jew could say, let’s go to one of these councils and promote the creation of some Jewish body mint for handling Exactly.

This kind of thing. Right. And I’m gonna note this is actually existential for Judaism [00:44:00] to survive. And

Simone Collins: people say it’s, it’s a, I I totally get what you’re saying. I just don’t really know how to navigate around it. If, for example, so here’s this community, like what, I guess what you want the rest of, of all the Jewish communities to do is be like, oh.

We’re not with them. We condemn their actions. They should not do this. It’s wrong. And of course, certainly not censor anyone who’s bringing to light what they’re doing.

Malcolm Collins: You know, what they need to do is they need to. Be punishing and have a system for punishing, but also just in their own lives, socially punish the individuals who attempt to use the antisemitism card when something is clearly not antisemitism.

Simone Collins: Okay. That’s fair. I, I, I, because I was like, I don’t know how you think this, this community for example, that was

Malcolm Collins: No, no. The bigger problem than this community mm-hmm. Than the fraud of this community is the individuals who are trying to stop the system from working as it’s supposed to.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They are the people who [00:45:00] got spent millions of dollars getting Trump to pardon a guy who had killed people.

Right. Yeah. They are the people for a type of fraud that everyone on the right is pissed off about right now. Yeah. You can’t just let a guy sit in jail for doing fraud. Like, why, why is that such a problem? Right? Yeah. Like, they’re not even denying that he did it.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And let’s go over, because I wanna go over like what the a DL is saying here.

The point I’m making, it’s the bigger problem isn’t the individual bad actors, it’s the larger community level organizations like the a DL, the meta conversation protect the bad actors from the system working as intended,

Simone Collins: right? Yeah. And honestly, it goes against at least my like, stereotypical outsider take of Jewish law.

Like if the game is work within the rules to your best advantage, you know, make the rules work for you, but then, you know, you get caught, then you, you, you lost the game. You need to be better at playing the system. They weren’t good enough. They got caught. Was your

Malcolm Collins: hand in, [00:46:00] in,

Simone Collins: in, so like, my bad, I’m gonna have to try again.

And, and the, the reaction isn’t. Oh no, definitely don’t catch me. Like that’s not how it works you to follow the rules. That’s the whole point. You follow the rules.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and and the thing is, and the reason I keep pointing out is that Judaism used to have systems for dealing with this.

Simone Collins: I

Malcolm Collins: see. Is this is the law of Judaism.

It just, these institutions collapsed a few centuries ago. Mm-hmm. Right? Like that doesn’t mean. That they are not historically accurate Judaism, right? Mm-hmm. And because of that, if you are a stickler Orthodox Jew, and we have a lot of Orthodox Jewish fans of this, you can work your way up. And I’m, we have a number of Orthodox fans who are Jewish Orthodox Jews, who are in positions of authority with, within these communities, do something about this, like advocate for recreating one of these institutions.

Because if you don’t, and the reason I said that this is so existential for Judaism is it is not just existential for Judaism working alongside [00:47:00] right wing culture in the United States. It is existential for Judaism because we are your best long-term ally, right? Like we created the state of Israel basically, and we funded it up until this point and we regularly help you guys out, right?

Like it is really stupid to piss us off. But in addition to all of that. If you cannot deal with this, Israel itself is going to collapse.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Because right now, ultra orthodox communities in Israel scam the state of Israel. Right. And, and Oh

Simone Collins: yeah. And that, that is a huge problem within the state of Israel itself.

For sure.

Malcolm Collins: And they are using that to out breeded their more economically and technologically conductive.

Simone Collins: That’s a really, I didn’t even think about that. Yeah. That’s like, and already known in existing and very serious problem that does eventually need to be dealt with within the own Jewish community.

That’s that. Oh, huh. And,

Malcolm Collins: and worse than that, not only are they economically and technologically unproductive, [00:48:00] but they don’t even fight in your wars. Mm-hmm. They said you are economically and technologically productive people to die, to defend. Your land, they are scamming you. That is in any other country we would call that a scam.

Okay. Now you can say, well, you know, it’s not technically a scam because they’re following all the rules. That thinking like Simone said, like it’s you, like follow in any other system we’d be calling a group that was doing that, scamming the system. We’d be like, this seems like a problem. They’re a negative externality on society.

They disproportionately are involved in scams and welfare and living off the state and they don’t even fight in wards for us. Like what are we even doing here? Right. That community, because of their birth rates, is eventually going to make Israel irrelevant, right? Like Israel with its bright futures, Jews with their bright futures because of this homeland of Israel that they’ve been able to sort of create as a fortress nation.

It has that bright future because of its [00:49:00] technologically and economically productive high fertility population. But if that population is drowned out in a democracy because it is a democracy in Israel by a population that doesn’t share their values that’s existentially threatening. And note here, I’m not talking about all Hawaii Jews, all ultra orthodox Jews.

Many are sane and understand the problem but it is a, a, a, a good chunk of them. And if you could create a religious institution that was designed with exactly these two issues in mind, how do we prevent this one population in Israel from eventually tanking the state, state with the understanding that it’s in that population’s best interest as well.

Like I’ve even talked to Jews in this population, just about the math that they are well aware of, of how effed they are when they become the majority of Jews in Israel. Like, they’re like, oh, well, it’s good for this reason and good for this reason, but obviously we’re going to have major military problems when that happens.

We’re gonna have major economic problems when that happens. And, and they’re like, and then we will reform [00:50:00] parts of the system, but they’re not stupid. Okay. Looking ahead and being like, okay, maybe it worked. Like even if I’m only thinking from a proje perspective, I literally don’t care about how IF over outsiders or anything like that.

Even if, I only think from Proje perspective, even if I’m only thinking from a proje perspective from one of these ultra orthodox communities that is living off of welfare.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Right. I still care about the future of the Jewish people

Simone Collins: and I Well, do you think so? Is this an issue of

Malcolm Collins: percent of antisemitism in youth?

I could. This is a f*****g problem, right? Especially among your best and longest term allies.

Simone Collins: Well, so is is, could this be then that the A DL. Isn’t actually trying to like advocate for or fight for Jewish safety or protection, but rather they, they’re experiencing mission creep and they’re just blindly and without any bigger picture, just reflexively going [00:51:00] after anyone who’s say Jew bad.

And then they just like,

Malcolm Collins: well, if that is the case, that there needs to be some institutional Jewish system to punish them. Okay. As people, not even as an organization, as individuals,

Simone Collins: like all the donors to the AD L who are Jewish need to say, Hey, knock it off. This is

Malcolm Collins: making No, no, no, no, no. That’s not, that’s too hard to do.

What you need is an external Jewish legal body. Jews love legal bodies. That is meant to hunt down these types of anti-Jewish crimes, ag crimes that lead to the Jewish community being less secure, that are being performed. By individuals at organizations like the adl. Mm-hmm. And publicly be able to say, this individual is committing these acts, which are demonstrably dangerous to the Jewish community at large.

And that they shouldn’t face x, y, and Z punishment for it to be on good terms with the Jewish community going forwards, likely fines or something like that. So let’s go over like what the A DL said, just so you understand [00:52:00] how they tried to frame this.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: I’m in frame, interested frame. They said it was anti-Semitic to frame some Orthodox Jewish communities as welfare, ECT addicted, welfare addicted.

Simone Collins: But they are like, it seems like there are, it’s well known that many, many Orthodox Jewish communities are kind of like literally built around leveraging welfare systems because they can. I don’t blame anyone for like, to a certain extent, if, if the system is that broken where you can exploit it that much, then it’s, you know,

Malcolm Collins: on the system Yeah.

Mean overall Jews still pay more into the tax system than they disproportionately take out because there’s so many rich Jews. Mm-hmm. So like, there’s still useful to have around. They then said that, oh, using tropes about Jewish insularity greed slash money or dual loyalty, like, go back to Israel comments in the video is, but they are, they were demonstrably exhibiting.

Greed and dual loyalty in the video and [00:53:00] these Orthodox Jewish communities going back to Israel and committing fraud against other Jews, would demonstrably fix the problem in, in the United States of this being a legitimate grievance. Mm-hmm. Right. Like the, these are not that, that’s one of the coolest things about Israel.

You know, Jews have a place they can go if there being a problem now. Right. Other Jews even have a way to be like, okay, if this community is becoming too much of a problem in the United States and causing too many issues, then we can relocate them back to Israel, where at least they’re only causing these negative externalities among other Jews.

If people are wondering why I am so existentially interested in, that’s what this video is, is me trying my best to come up with a solution to prevent what I see as extreme rates of antisemitism.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And I wanna highlight just what you pointed out at the very beginning, just the proportion of young people today who actively harbor.

anti-Semitic views because of this stuff that is happening now, and it’s only going to get worse. And definitely this is the sign to take action. I, I get that.

Malcolm Collins: By the way, you’re, you’re looking for other instances if you’re like, well, this is [00:54:00] just one case. There’s a crazy case. Have you heard about the East Ramo Central School District in Rockland County, New York?

Simone Collins: That’s the one that he, that that guy went to visit, isn’t it?

Malcolm Collins: Mm. This wasn’t the one that he got in trouble for,. No, this was the one where an ultra orthodox population grew rapidly due to high birth rates. And their synagogue had them all vote in the local elections. And they ended up, even though they were a minority population, having control of the local school board and when I say they were a minority, the, the local school district was 91 to 95% black or Latino, and served 9,000 students.

They then began to cut. All of the extracurricular and athletic activities. They then reduced kindergarten from full day to half day ended summer school, cut business electives and professional development by 75%. They then tried to sell a school building to a Jewish Yeshiva at under the cost

Simone Collins: of that

Malcolm Collins: building.

Oh

Simone Collins: no, that’s terrible. That’s not a good look. That’s [00:55:00] not gonna make you friends. That’s really not gonna make you friends. Oh gosh,

Malcolm Collins: no. This is one of the things where we need to be able to talk about this, like they’re playing within in the rules of the system. But part of the way the system works is when somebody is playing within the rules, but being a bad actor, that they are able to be called out by citizen journalists.

If elements of the Jewish community attempt to stop citizen journalism,

Simone Collins: that’s not playing by the rules. Yeah’s

Malcolm Collins: existentially bad because now that person is saying. To target these individuals, you have to go through all of us. And all of us means a lot of Jews that want nothing to do with this and for those Jews, the bad actor that they need to target.

And this is very important and very difficult than the way Jews typically react to. This is not like the worst actor here. The person who is most dangerous to the overall Jewish community is not the people doing this fraud. It is not the people taking control of the [00:56:00] school districts. It is not the people selling the school dis buildings to Yeshivas.

It is the people trying to shut down the system from operating as it’s intended to. It’s the a DL. The a DL is at a, a level of magnitude, existentially worse for the Jewish community because they are the ones who makes this a problem for every Jew instead of just these Jews. Okay. The case I was talking about earlier of the, was the case of Philip Ethermore, a Miami Beach nursing home who did $33 million in fraud. Yeah. Really bad.

Simone Collins: That’s impressive.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Okay. How in what, sorry. Keep going.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, if you wanna go into it what he did and, and no, Trump didn’t fully pardon him, but he shouldn’t have done anything for this guy. It’s good for the Jewish community that this guy faced punishment, right? Yes. Yes. That this guy [00:57:00] faced punishment before the Somalians did.

Jews could go like, look, our community isn’t receiving special treatment.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Don’t then advocate explicitly for special treatment.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Right?

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Prosecutors described him as driven by almost unbounded greed. So what really got me more than him, because again, I don’t really care what he did, he did something bad.

The citizen, the system caught him like Somalians do something bad. The system catches him uhhuh. It’s when they then try to say, and now you have to arrest every Somalian if you want to arrest these Somalians, that it becomes existentially unworkable. Right. And alliance was the group becomes existentially unworkable.

Simone Collins: Correct.

Malcolm Collins: So specifically what happened is the organization is the Alpha Institute, a Habad Litic affiliated 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit, founded in 1981 by Rabbi Shalom Lisker at the direct action of Leav Rebe. Its core mission is to provide religious, spiritual, educational and advocacy for support for [00:58:00] Jewish inmates in the United States, of which there are roughly 85,000.

This is really, really, really bad, right? If you are an organization that is doing something like this, you need to be asking their motto is, no one alone, no one forgotten, right? Like, we don’t leave our troops behind. We don’t let our people face jail time. You need to be asking as an organization, like before you go after and try to free a guy like this, you need to be saying, okay, but did he actually hurt people?

Did he actually do something bad? Because if he actually did, and I now say you can’t jail any Jew unless you jail all Jews, you now are a much bigger threat to the wider Jewish community than this guy was. And again, this is about thinking. And, and Jews can be like, oh, well because of our traumas, we reflexively attempt to do X, Y, and Z.

I understand that. Okay. [00:59:00] But the problem is, is this pattern of behavior. Ha And other groups don’t do this. Catholics don’t try to get people outta prison just ‘cause they’re Catholics. Okay. Yeah. The, the Protestants,

I

Simone Collins: thought when, when you described the organization, I figured it was like, well, we will, you know.

Provide you with visitors while you’re in jail, serving time, you know, like build community for you or maybe like go in and provide education to people in jail and just do good PR for Jews in jail, but not like, get you out. That, that surprises me that that’s

Malcolm Collins: what they do. Yeah. The core reason that this group did this, right?

Or, or they say they did this. Okay. Is his father Morris Semus, an orthodox rabbi and nursing home magnate, donated 65,000, $65,000 to Alpha over several years starting after his indictment, by the way, so. To work on his case. But the family has long supported Habad causes. [01:00:00] And Jared Kushner, who oversaw much of the clemency, has longstanding personal ties within these habad networks.

Mm-hmm. Now, Habad people who I have met have generally been pretty smart and forward thinking. They should have known how this was going to look, given how mad the right is right now over Somali stuff, they are anyone involved in this an existential threat to the Jewish community? They, they weren’t able to think for two seconds.

How mad is the American right, right now about the Somali case? How are they gonna feel about this case?

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Right. And they didn’t feel that way. They didn’t have a fear about this because there’s no Jewish institutional organization or anything that could have come out and been like hey guys, do not do this right now.

This is going to damage, could, could this, could this come damage to the Jewish community?

Simone Collins: What if Jewish organizations never

Malcolm Collins: felt like they had the, the to, to go into the [01:01:00] final thing here, which is, okay, how Jews historically handled this stuff, how they should handle this stuff in the future,

Simone Collins: though, I, I do wanna ask what if, what if Jewish organizations like these never thought they had allies on the right

Malcolm Collins: or left?

And, and a note here when I’m like, when I was talking about like Jews being like, oh, well, you know, historically we had this stuff and we just don’t have it anymore. And, and, you know, trauma, sorry. But you say stuff like, oh, trauma in our community, like we can’t not do it, blah, blah, blah.

I’m like, look, I understand it’s hard to to create institutions to change your culture, but Jews have done it before you can do it again. And if you look at the rise and the speed of the rise of antisemitism, it is existential that you find a way to do it. This is not me ragging on the Jewish community.

This is me saying Jews are useful allies for many reasons to me and my personal agenda. But you are also from the position of populations like [01:02:00] this fertility rate was in Israel and this phenomenon in the United States and the rise of antisemitism in the US at an existential risk. Right now, if this continues a 25% antisemitism rate, that could be 50, 60%.

Oh yeah. And if it continues to rise at this rate in like 20 years, like you don’t have time to deal with this. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You have people marching through American streets saying from the river to the sea, you need the other side. That doesn’t mind that stuff still in your camp. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Now to to note here you had organizations like the Kelly organized Jewish councils and rabbinical courts bit din, which actively provided and policed economic crimes against Gentiles.

The motivation was practical self-preservation. If you committed fraud against Christian or a Christian government, obviously that could trigger pogroms or expulsions or even collective punishments. Yeah. Examples includes, so this is how they [01:03:00] did it. Fines or Sherman and shaming, repeated or notorious fraud.

Dishonest business practices, counterfeiting or overcharging non-Jews could result in monetary fines paid to the victim or the community. Public shaming or full serum, a social and religious ban that was devastating. No one could do business with you, marry your kids, et cetera. Nice Jewish legal codes and communal records from the period show that this was done precisely to deter action against their group.

And DIC and medieval enforcement that tel food and later codes, EG maimonide and shall arch record bit din handled cases of theft and fraud from gentiles stealing even trivial amounts from non-Jews as a Torah level. Theft In practice, communities would impose severely strict penalty penalties on Jews who performed.

Even trivial fraud or misrepresentation against Gentiles. And they did this [01:04:00] not because they wanted to protect Gentiles, but because they wanted to protect Jews.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, because they, they think even

Malcolm Collins: news at

Simone Collins: that

Malcolm Collins: point

Simone Collins: did a lot

Malcolm Collins: of, why Malcolm, can you not hear me? To break down? A large part of this had to do with the the Jewish, tite levy thing, and he basically destroyed the Jewish community for like a century. If you’re not in the Jewish, like Judaism almost died like at the end of this period. And the rabbinic circles sort of lost a lot of their institutional power and things began to fall apart. And a number of these organizations essentially weren’t even able to pay the taxes that they owed to like the government because the government was supposed to be handling stuff from them.

And so they essentially fell apart. And that’s, that’s bad when you still have Jewish organizations who attempt to protect every Jew. Any final thoughts? Simone?

Simone Collins: I don’t think you can hear me.

Malcolm Collins: You’re muted, by the way.

Simone Collins: I’m not muted. That’s the

Malcolm Collins: problem. You’re muted still. You’re still

Simone Collins: I know. I’m not muted.

I’m, I’m actually not

Malcolm Collins: muted. I can’t hear anything. Can’t hear anything.

Simone Collins: I [01:05:00] know, I know. Can’t

Malcolm Collins: hear anything.

Simone Collins: I think it’s are, are you

Malcolm Collins: unable to unmute? I, it’s okay. Is there’s sun in the

Simone Collins: Look. I. Muted. I’m not

Malcolm Collins: muted. Okay. Still can’t hear you.

Simone Collins: It’s, it’s a, it’s a mic problem.

Malcolm Collins: Do you think you’re unmuted? Can you hear me?

Simone Collins: I know I can hear you. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Come in here and give your final thoughts.

Simone Collins: Well, I think actually I can be heard, so

Malcolm Collins: I can, I have no idea what you’re saying. You are completely muted.

Simone Collins: I’ll call you, I’ll call you. Hold on.

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: So I, my mic is being picked up in the recording. You just can’t hear me for whatever reason from your computer, so, okay.

Malcolm Collins: I’ll just let you talk then.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I agree with you that this is really important to address and I really hope that something can be done, but I feel like maybe things have gotten balkanized to the point where Jewish communities feel like they, they can’t actually control this.

Maybe I’m wrong.

Malcolm Collins: I think you’re wrong. I [01:06:00] think from what I’ve seen Jewish communities can adapt. They’re not stupid. They at least realize the problem of growing antisemitism. Mm-hmm. And Jewish communities cannot control, or they can try to, but it’s increasingly not working because unfortunately they’re using the tools that the wokes adopted.

And now the woke tools work in reverse. They, they cannot control the actions of people outside their community, especially when they are genuinely becoming. A threat to those external communities, right? So

Simone Collins: basically if, if a critical mass of influential Jewish leaders recognize that this is an existential threat to all Jewish communities and that every time something like this gets planned, threatened, whatever, pulled that immediately, they all collectively descend upon this person and are like, this is not cool.

Undo right now we’re

Malcolm Collins: gonna cut you off with some form of actual punishment that is agreed upon wide scale through like inter rabbinic courts. That, [01:07:00] that, and, and again, the core thing that needs to be punished is not the fraud itself, it’s the defense of the fraud.

Simone Collins: Yeah. No, I, I agree with you and it’s, it’s really bizarre.

Again, why was this, why was this terminated? Why did it ever end?

Malcolm Collins: The courts

Simone Collins: people just got disorganized?

Malcolm Collins: No, no, but basically they were too organized to the extent that they were in charge of like tax collection from the Jewish people. Oh. On behalf of the governments that they were part of. And some of them got like shut down when they can no longer had the authority to collect those taxes anymore.

So they basically became too bureaucratic and they broke.

Simone Collins: Okay, so yeah, basically a new practice has to be getting and a new, A new precedent and it would be better if it was a lightweight, reflexive reaction to defensive bad actors instead of some complicated, larger governing body. Per my, yeah, per my view then.

Malcolm Collins: Okay.

Simone Collins: Wow. I mean, I didn’t know how egregious some of those cases were and [01:08:00] I fully welcome anyone. I mean, I think that many cases of welfare fraud could be construed as like white cat hacking. They’re hacking the system, they’re showing vulnerable. Absolutely. And

Malcolm Collins: again, I’m not, the key

Simone Collins: thing to make it white hat is when the vulnerability is exposed, the vulnerability gets fixed.

You caught me. We’re good. Cat and mouse game continues. But like the whole point of a cat and mouse game. Is it when the cat finds a mouse, cat eats mouse mouse gone.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. You don’t then say, as the mouse, you have to eat all the mice if you want to eat this one mouse, because now you are a problem for all mice.

Simone Collins: Well, I feel like the metaphor falls falls apart at that point. I, I see what you’re saying. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I think that that maybe, you know, as much as we didn’t really talk about it, this issue also extends to the Somali community. I think that, for example, Elman oar, sorry, Elman. Han Omar. Yeah. It was, was a huge problem

Malcolm Collins: for the Somali

Simone Collins: community, but I don’t care about, ‘cause like, they need to be like, [01:09:00] we, we disavow this, this is disgusting, but like, I think this, this, but your advice applies to all communities.

You know, any community that’s like,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. I mean obviously Aidan’s a Somali community, the, the, the Somalians who defend the obvious Somalian fraudsters need to be punished more like as a cultural strategy for survival more than the fraudsters themselves.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: That, yeah,

Simone Collins: because the fraudsters, it’s easy to like write off anyone who did bad thing and, and be rid of them.

But the ones who tried to defend that are the ones that put everyone at risk. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: I guess it’s not too dissimilar from the covenant of the sons of men the AI alignment proposition you present, which is basically we attack anything that becomes an existential threat to all of our ability to be free to exist.

And this is a micro version of it. When you see someone is posing an existential threat, all bets are off. We drop what we’re doing, we stop them and then we can move forward once [01:10:00] that threat has been dealt with. And that’s what you’re seeing here and that’s why you pay so much attention to it because you are uniquely attuned to existential threats arising.

And now you see it arising like you didn’t care about it when it was Somalians. ‘cause what investment do we have in that community? But when you see it, this happening with, I don’t care what happens to the

Malcolm Collins: Somalians, like

Simone Collins: Somalians, I mean, we don’t have an association. We have no investment, we have no like interest.

We don’t feel like they’re gonna take to the stars. And, and you know, whatever. They don’t seem to be very involved with anyone who’s not their own community.

Malcolm Collins: They’re not, are, they’re not culturally aligned with me. I have no cultural similarities to them. I have a lot of cultural similarities to Jews.

Yeah. Like obviously I, and, and Jews produce a lot of technology and economic benefits for the United States and have a lot of military strengths, which is useful for our future plans if we stay allies. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I get it. The, so like, obviously I care what happens to the Jew. I Somalians are doing this too, but like I just said, I’m like, okay, well then get rid of all the Somalians, right?

Like if they’re, if they’re gonna defend this, like, and, and at the rates that they’re [01:11:00] doing it at like this, but the, it’s a little different from the Somalians. So the Somalians, it, it looks like within some Somalian communities it is the majority of the Somalian, it was something like 65% were on welfare or something like that.

Within Jewish communities, it is actually an extreme minority that are these types of I Orthodox Jews.

Simone Collins: I disagree because they’re like some cities where the entire way of life is built upon this kind of economic

Malcolm Collins: system.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So you’re wrong about that. I think it, it may be even worse in some of these, in some of these cities where, because like literally the entire economy runs off of those dynamics, which is why I was like.

Maybe this is an issue. Like we can’t, you can’t be like, well knock it off guys. ‘cause it, it’s literally like, like, what, what do you want them to do? Like, they, they literally will do this to the death, I guess. ‘cause like they, they have no other way of making money now. They all have like nine kids. What are you gonna do?

Like,

Malcolm Collins: right. But I mean, we, we, we, we’ve, we’ve, and I, and I point out here [01:12:00] when a, a Jews who’s watching this has been like, what do you mean your people just go out and shoot someone when they’re one of your own people and they’re screwing people over. What about the healthcare? CEO? That was a white guy.

Mm-hmm. Right? Like he, he, the guy who shot him was a white guy. That’s the American way. Right? Like the people know in our video, I was not against that. I was like, yeah, this guy’s applying extra. Yeah.

Simone Collins: I guess that’s, that’s a very salient example of that form of justice. Yeah. That was at least. I don’t know.

It was an, an Italian right. Kid. And then a, I don’t know what the United Healthcare,

Malcolm Collins: well, I mean, adopted American culture. Right. You know, I think that this, this that, that when somebody from our community is effing over our community and outsiders deal with it,

Simone Collins: I guess we could say that, that their shared culture was relatively affluent, educated American.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The guy who did it was a affluent, educated, wealthy like [01:13:00] kid who went to like boarding school and stuff like that, as far as I remember, like same basic cultural group. But it was that group policing itself.

Simone Collins: Well, and the future is gonna be self-policing because government based policing is not gonna

Malcolm Collins: happen.

Well, and yeah, and, and because groups that don’t police themselves, everyone is going to hate them, right? Like as, as people begin to see people more as groups, right? Like, as your individual identity of your community gets larger people are going to, like I will say right now within the techno puritan community, that is how we should police as extremely aggressively as possible.

Simone Collins: And it’s not just about policing, it’s also about your reputation as a culture and as we’ll say possibly even like a techno fiefdom, right? Like in the future, let’s say if many mainstream governments fall apart, different contingents and groups are going to, like Venetian City states, trade with each other, engage in business with each other or not, like isolate each other from each other.

And if [01:14:00] your community builds a reputation for exploitation. You will not be able to do trade. Like everyone’s gonna wanna work with the Mormons. Everyone dunks on the Mormons, but they’re all gonna wanna work with the Mormons.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: that’s a

Malcolm Collins: good point.

Simone Collins: And I think the problem with building reputations like these is people are in the future when everyone just runs off of cultural stereotypes and reputations be like, well, I’m not gonna work with the Jews.

Whereas in the past when you, there was this policing system that you described, it was like, well sure I go to the Jews to get like money lending services and these other things because they’re trustworthy for that. They self-police. Like I can, I can predict that they will provide the service as as expected.

And I think that that’s the thing is you have to think about what cultural stereotypes you are going to cultivate for your group in a post world police environment. Because that’s what we’re entering with demographic collapse. Right,

Malcolm Collins: exactly. Okay. And it, and it can be done. That’s, that’s the other thing, just throwing up your hands and being like, no, Jews could [01:15:00] never fix this problem.

You used to self-police, you used to have. Institutional solutions.

Simone Collins: Well, and and they, this was when they operated in a system of no work police. Higher

Malcolm Collins: threat.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Higher threat. Different groups needing to interact with each other and trade with each other and, and, and yeah. Interact in a low trust environment.

We’re, we’re entering a very low trust future, meaning that you need to cultivate high trust, and if you defend bad actors, that’s destroying it. So I, now I get the bigger picture even more. And I mm-hmm. Appreciate you covering this even though we’re totally getting in trouble for this.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, because it is, it’s there, there are the bad actors out there and they are pervasive within Jewish communities.

But we are signaling this, not because we want to hurt these communities, but because we’re trying to shock them into like, you, you actually, if somebody as Philio, Semitic as me is like, this is actually a problem, guys, then it’s actually a problem.

Simone Collins: Yeah. [01:16:00]

Malcolm Collins: And it’s not like a problem that like you can scratch your chin about and be like, that’s a very interesting problem.

It’s like, if you care about the future of the Jewish people, you care about finding a solution to this problem.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, I’m gonna go get the kids and make dinner. And

Malcolm Collins: what am I doing?

Simone Collins: If we were make your Burmese chicken. Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Burmese McChicken.

Simone Collins: If ever we were criticized for being the weird husband and wife who speak to each other in different rooms.

It’s just highlighted now by the fact that we’re like, I’m talking on a phone. Hello.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my

gosh.

Simone Collins: This is so bad. I don’t work out your mic. Because I’m seeing, and

Malcolm Collins: it’s not of my mic problem, it’s clearly a stream yard problem because Stream yard’s Picking up my mic. Fine.

Simone Collins: I I see that stream yard’s picking gum.

Your mic. And do you see that it’s picking up my mic because it is

Malcolm Collins: no,

Simone Collins: the green dots be moving.

Malcolm Collins: We’ll figure it out. I love you so much, Simone.

Simone Collins: I love you too.

Malcolm Collins: You’re amazing. And I actually would not at all be surprised given the number [01:17:00] of Habad because that seems to be the organization that would be best able to fix this.

Jews that watch our show that one of them is gonna be like, yeah, reviving one of those institutions is probably a pretty good idea. Like, let’s get on that. Because, you know, if you, if you bring that idea to the right people with the right packaging and you’re able to set something like that up, that’s also a path to power for you and institutional power for you, right?

Like, it’s, it’s not a bad play. It’s not like a cross that you have to die on. It’s a very useful thing to set up. I

Simone Collins: know. It’s just, you know. Politicking be politicy. It’s not that easy, but this is an existential threat to your point, so I get it. Anyway,

Malcolm Collins: yeah,

Simone Collins: the kids are being All right. Love you suspiciously quiet, so, all right.

Bye

bye.

Simone Collins: I cannot, I still though, I, I can’t get over Torsten Seeing [01:18:00] Wannabe by the Spice Girls a music video of it, you know, like, you know, the OG music video and then coming up to me and being like, mommy, this is a song about friendship.

Malcolm Collins: He said that.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: This is a song about friendship,

Simone Collins: song about friendship.

Malcolm Collins: If you be my lover, you gotta get with my friends. Yeah. Which is also,

Simone Collins: it is like, it really is a song about friendship. It’s true.

Malcolm Collins: It is a song about friendship. Yeah. Yeah. I I,

Simone Collins: no one’s gonna meet the, that’s that specification for being your

Malcolm Collins: love. What’s funny is, is that it is still true for like, progressive culture.

Like, you wanna have sex with someone, you gotta have sex with their friends. Like, that’s the way those communities work these days.

Simone Collins: Oh God. Yeah. If you, the Polly Reed of wanna be Girls. Yeah. They’re all, they’re all all

Malcolm Collins: Polly. If you wanna be my love No,

Simone Collins: that’s like, that’s like the Dallas Poly community that we knew.

Yeah. Where it was just this like matriarchy where they would switch out studs.

Malcolm Collins: No, no. That was, she’s talking about this was really interesting. So, like. As Simone and I had mentioned like earlier when we were more progressive [01:19:00] we were like technically open to sleeping with other people. We just didn’t really indulge in it.

But we like hung out with these communities and so we were very familiar with the various poly communities in the areas where we lived. There’s

Simone Collins: some

Malcolm Collins: of

Simone Collins: those fun people, like typically if you meet someone who’s poly, they’re probably also. Pretty smart in doing some interesting work. I don’t know what to

Malcolm Collins: say.

Some of them, I mean, this is, this is the ones who we met who were like that keep in mind that we sort of filter who we meet. And it depends on the area. The poly people I’ve met in like San Francisco and like Portland and stuff, they’ve all like total burnouts, a lot of them. I

Simone Collins: don’t know, as far as I know, the people I know in, in the Bay Area who are poly are some of the smartest and highest achieving people, so,

Malcolm Collins: oh.

So I also know some smart ones and stuff like that, but they’re not on the typical poly dating scene, whereas the poly dating scene in Dallas was actually more like smart high agency people, was really good jobs.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But it was incredibly interesting because it was basically run by a cabal of very attractive women who just [01:20:00] controlled, who was invited to the parties, who got to do what, who, you know and they would just like, and, and I think that that’s one of the reason why.

So high, high status. Mm-hmm. Because these women, they approached it very much with sort of like a backwoods because, you know, Texas is, is part of, specifically Dallas is often seen as the capital of the greater Appalachian region, even though it’s not in the Appalachians because it’s the largest city and economic hub that’s in that cultural region.

And they approached it very sort of ruthlessly and economically, which is really interesting, where they’re like, well, we are hot women. We can control access to sex. If other hot women decide to become polley in the Dallas area, they basically join our cabal and we will use this cabal to ensure that only really competent, successful, and attractive guys are sleeping with anyone in the poly space.

Simone Collins: Yeah, actually that’s, that’s a really good point, is all the guys we met that were in that space. We’re very pro-social, whereas you often get a lot of bad [01:21:00] actor dudes. Not, not universally obviously, but there are more bad actor dudes in other poly circles who are just exploitative and, and messed up and like manipulative.

And these guys were just like, just. Kind of nice. We can,

Malcolm Collins: dynamics are entirely different. You look at the polys scene in, in San Francisco, and it’s like super toxic because it’s basically a bunch of like effective altruists. Watch our episode on the ea to who pipeline who attempt to groom young women who first enter the movement with like logic.

Like, well, it gives me pleasure and it gives you pleasure. How could it be wrong? Right. And it begins to look cool to these young women and they get into it and then older women in the space come up to them and they’re like, Hey I think this guy is using you. And then they’re like, oh, this older woman’s just trying to make guard.

You know, like, and because that’s what the guys will say, or something like that. Yes. They

Simone Collins: won’t listen. Yeah. Even

Malcolm Collins: when they try to protect each other, the guys have moved up in this community through some other means, like they’ve gotten high level positions and like that’s some effective altru org, so it’s hard to kick them out or something like that.

And so it creates [01:22:00] this dynamic where you get bad actors all over the place and because the community isn’t ruthless about expelling people. Yeah. And. Dine if a guy tried to say, because most of the guys in the Dine are like, finance bros and stuff like that. Tried to say something like oh, well she’s just mate guarding this, you know.

Attractive woman who’s higher status than you in the community telling you not to get with me. That woman would then be like, okay, now you guy who just said that, like it goes through the Whisper network really fast, you’re not invited.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It was kind of like the Bachelor, you know, you get handed Rose or something.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And everyone knows not to engage with you. So it’s weird that in this one scenario, like matriarchy seems to keep the entire system stable.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It was so cool. It was so weird

Malcolm Collins: and cool. Matriarchy and hyper gamy, keeping a system stable in a non-traditional structure. Okay. Whatever.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That was fascinating.

I wonder if it’s still stable or if it’s basically collapsed at this point. It says,

Simone Collins: I know, I know. Well, some of the people in it that, that I, we, we had known had moved away, you know, moved to other [01:23:00] cities and gone on to become parents and stuff. So I, I doubt that they’re still that involved in it. But

Malcolm Collins: yeah,

Simone Collins: I don’t know.

And I, I think I got the impression when we were hanging in that circle too, that there were a lot of really new entrants who were just young and kind of having that experience. For a while and you kind of get through it. Like maybe for some people being poly, is this postgraduate equivalent of being briefly lesbian in college?

You know, and then you kind of get it outta your system and move on and enter committed relationships. I don’t know. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, hold on. I need to ask a question, but you can keep talking.

Simone Collins: I also love watching our kids dance too. Gangnam style. That is just God tier entertainment so good. But yeah, I’m trying to think if there’s anything that I haven’t told you yet about my trip to Austin.

I, [01:24:00] I do have to say I really like the network of people there. You know, like I wish I could just tap into that social network all the time. I. That and like hang around Light Haven in Berkeley. I think it would be lovely. But I don’t want to fly out to these places and I don’t want to live in either of those places.

So this is the price we pay. It’s just us and the chickens over here, and that’s okay.

Malcolm Collins: All right.

Speaker 11: We’re just about to head back from Austin where we filmed a round table, uh, with Chris Williamson and two other demographers, line Stone and well documentarian Steven Shaw and I can’t wait to get back and get home to the kids. It was good to be in Austin, but I really like our home in Valley Forge.

It’s pretty great there and. Travel just isn’t as [01:25:00] fun as it used to be. I don’t know. The appeal has worn off, so I’m glad I was able to make it out. I’m glad I was able to do it all for one backpack for the, the two of us because you got a lot of stuff, all the formula, all the diapers. There’s a lot there.

Um, and the elevator in our hotel broke. This morning, so there was hauling this car seat down 11 floors, which was not my favorite moment. Yeah, it was not the best, but that’s over. And the round table, which was supposed to go for two hours, I think went for four. So hopefully that means it went well. Who knows?

But, uh, it was really, really fun to have that conversation. Um, and I love that we get to do work that has us talking with really interesting, fun people and that yields opportunities like these, um, [01:26:00] ‘cause it’s a, it’s a perk. It’s, it’s not comfortable, but it’s interesting.

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