Flabbott Elementary (w/thecaptainbara, becca, merrily_overfed, moanappetite, & caseyallensears)

Hello and welcome back to Thicc Radio, the award-winning podcast where we talk about gaining

feedism and everything plus size. I'm James. And I'm Tim. And I'm Kathy. So let's get into it.

All right you all. So we have with us today a series of guests and we're going to let them

introduce themselves. Hi I'm Becca. I am a high school Spanish teacher and I am a feedie.

Hi I'm Tyler. We're merely overfed online and I'm a university professor. I teach marine biology

and evolutionary biology. Hi I'm Mona Patete on all socials. I also call Richie. I am a middle

school special education teacher and I am a gainer. Hi my name is Casey. I am a school administrator

in Washington D.C. I'm loosely identified as a casual builder. Well listen everyone welcome to

the round table conversation. I think we're going to have a lot of fun today. It's a funny

when we were talking about this episode way back at the inception of the podcast and Tim will

reference this from time to time. We will say oh we're not going to have stuff to talk about forever

already. And then I sat down and was like wrong and then started to like pull these concepts out of

my ass where I was like we should have this conversation we should talk about this. And actually fat

education was one of those initial topics and it's just kind of been sitting with us for a time

where we were like it's now the moment who do we want to talk to about this. So we were actually

quite excited to get to sit down with a couple of y'all to to chinwag about the experiences of

plus-sizedness in the conversation around education. So welcome to today's education conference.

We're glad to have you here. Please help yourself to teen biscuits. They're free on the side.

Please everyone make sure you take a look at your programs and make sure you go to the correct room

for your seating assignment. But listen we're here to chat. So to get started everyone shared with

us a bit about what they do in the education space and how they perhaps identify within the

community. Let's open it up. In each of y'all's experiences how do you find that fat is addressed

in education as a topic and point of discussion? In my experience it really isn't addressed and

it's really not talked about like among professionals like among my colleagues it's just like oh

they're they're a colleague and thank god they're an adult and they're breathing in the classroom

so like that I feel like it's more of like that's where we are that's where we are in the US

public education system it's like you're an adult you have a bunch of letters after your name

that says you can teach the thing good luck and so body size is not talked about which is

I view it as a positive thing it's just you're just another person. I think for me on the secondary

level I do have one middle school class as well it's not coming up as much amongst my colleagues

but it does come up a lot with like students there's a lot of jokes there's a lot of commentary

on people's bodies about big back about you know oh she's so fat or whatever so I do have to have

a lot of conversations with students around that but on a professional level it doesn't really

come up as much unless I bring it into conversation yeah I would I would second that I think there's

a perception that gainers get approached all the time about how fat they are and that doesn't happen

often in any place I mean but also especially not at work that that would be like horrifying if

someone approached me about my weight at work so I don't I just don't think that really most people

are polite and socially aware enough to just not bring it up in a work setting. I would say from

a school administrator standpoint I spent a lot of my time really combating the toxicity of

diet culture amongst my staff and making sure that isn't getting passed along to my students

and I would say I'm often the person bringing up the combo that calories are not bad things

right like we don't all have the same view of what we want our bodies to be and we shouldn't

imply that that same desire is true for all of our staff and for all of our students.

It's so funny Tyler when you said that you know you'd be horrified if somebody brought up

like your weight and work and like so since working in a school I haven't had that happen but when

I was working in nursing homes I would have a janitor sometimes call me out on it and one day I

came to work and the janitor was like you put on some weight haven't you and I was like you know

like I talked about this at a previous episode how at the time I was like oh fuck yeah it's

actually working but at the same token it's like it's so awkward when it happens in the workplace

and this is someone that you're going to be seeing for the next eight hours but to go back to

something that Becca was talking about you know about like among her among your colleagues when

you're encountering older colleagues you know people that have been teaching for 30 or 40 or even

50 years by this point and they're kind of do they seem kind of set in their ways or do they

seem like open to new methods of teaching or new conversations to be had around weight body types

a self-confidence self-image things like that. I've reached the point in my life where I just

don't dance around it as much so if we're sitting and somebody brings out like a tray of cookies

and a lot of my older colleagues are like oh I'm so bad I can't have that I will definitely say well

I'm gonna have four you should probably have one I just don't play into it but they are setting

their ways it's very like oh there's there's no healthy options today in the cafeteria I

I need to make sure I've been so bad I need to this and I just don't tolerate it I don't I don't know

why they like dance around it with me because I'm like you call them fat so I don't understand why

you're so afraid of getting fat and it's like clearly I am so well and you bring up something

very important back though which is like it's significant to in some cases to leave by example right

sometimes the situation doesn't seem as grave if an adult in the room doesn't address it as

something dire or scary right it helps put other adults in the room at ease right definitely

I have a question if people are kind of this are you seeing that the demographic of folks in your

schools is changing towards being more capable of handling this conversation I see it like I'm one of

the big-ish people in my building and it's like it's not even really talked about and into like

Becca's like line of like I'll have four cookies like I'm not gonna be the one that like is

first in line because I'm like I'm gonna let someone else do that because social pressure and

anxiety it's like oh my god all eyes are on me it's once like 102 people go then I'm gonna go load

up my plate because I'm like a free food I'm a teacher god knows I need the free food be dinner or

lunch whatever it may be I might I didn't have to back anything so yeah you better but I'm

loading up but having those conversations it doesn't happen unless it's like me correcting the

students saying hmm let's be nice here I think there are a lot of younger people that are headed

into teaching and into education and I see that there's a lot more there are more progressive views

overall as people like move in but I still think fat phobia is one of those that doesn't really

it's like a level of progressive that's really hit and miss so I do have some colleagues that are

very progressive in that way where they're like nobody shame and like eat what you want or you look

amazing in that and then others that still really have that like fat phobia ingrained in them so

it's interesting that generationally I don't feel that it's like moving in that direction

instead of like progressive in other ways like socially progressive I think we still have a long

way to go with fat phobia that sort of speaks to my experience in schools as well where I would say

that a lot of our younger educators especially as they come into the field are really gung ho on

by a body positivity but then some of those more internalized biases will come up especially as

we're we're talking about eating as it happens in front of kids and in front of colleagues that's

where I would most likely see that people maybe unintentionally undercut some of what they're

vocally espousing we know I so I don't interact with students in that way like where they eat

I don't see them so for students it wouldn't I don't consider that to be the type of relationship

we have I do have students in my lab who I again would never talk to them like seriously about it

unless there was like a harm situation happening but I like if we go to a lot hunter something I'd

always make little like crack little things about myself I'm like well I'm the big guy so I'll take

the rest or whatever you know like that's that I talk about myself and how I'm comfortable with

myself but that's that's the extent of it and then for colleagues this is my anecdotal experience

but a lot of academic departments have a lot of thin people there are not a lot of fat people in

academic departments at universities and so being bigger you kind of do stick out like among my

department and no one has I like never ever experienced anything hostile in any way fat phobic

outwardly but there are a lot of like assumptions made so like if I'm walking with someone we'll take

the stairs and I'm like winded and going up the stairs things like that where it's just like not

thought about and campus is large and you have to walk across campus and I'm like barely keeping

up and someone's trying to talk to me and I'm like holy we gotta take a break you know things like

that where I'm like it's just assumed that your capable as capable as a small thin person is

physically with so that that I notice more and more as I grow home so I don't think there's ever

ever been any like outwardly fat phobic anything like that but we also don't really talk about it

but there are assumptions made you know going back when you when you were talking about then I'm like huh

you're right I think definitely I noticed in in that spaying you were just talking I'm like from

my time as a university student I'm like I think I'm fairly certain the the bigger professors that

I had were in the arts and humanities side of thing as compared to the STEM and science side of

things so it was like my English my history professors that were so it was like the not academically

at like at physically active like we so we don't associate English or history as like an active

science as compared to you say you do like what marine biology yeah so I don't know I mean

there's fieldwork so there is like ableist you know you have to be able to go into an

intertidal rocky zone that's slippery and you have to be able to have balance and so that like

that kind of thing is you have to have the ability to do that so that selects for a certain type

of people I think who are like like getting dirty and being very active in that kind of way and

so that can be a chat like I don't currently I do not do fieldwork I send people out to do it for me

because it's just dangerous it's you know you can slip and break your leg on a rock and those rocky

intertitles and it can be tough so yeah that's another aspect of it is fieldwork which I I just don't

do fieldwork now you know something I'm curious about for those of us that identify as gainers and

feedies you know we often talk about fat discrimination when it comes to being hired how you know

wherever you guys have been in your gaming journeys have you experienced any fat phobia you know

it regards being hired into a position like and not that I think that you would be explicitly made

aware of it but things that you could like obviously infer it was for that reason I got hired

during covid and on a camera I look thinner than I am so like in this like headshot so I can

definitely see the reactions of being digital and then in person where I see like eyes widen

because I'm bigger than I I sometimes look from here up so I have experience that I think that

they legally know that they can't discriminate against me and they've already made the hiring

choice but I do question whether or not I would get that position even though I'm very qualified

I'm very good at what I do I think I I sometimes wonder if I've missed out on opportunities because

of that it's definitely something that's crossed my mind yeah it's hard to know if if you what you

didn't get something if that could be a factor like I don't who knows but in the places I've been

hired it is I don't think it has been a factor I don't think they're pretty attention to that really

there are problems with academic hiring in the university system overall but like they really

pay attention to your research and your teaching really and how you do as a presenter communicator

and so other than that you know I remember interviewing for this job and it was the first time I

had really worn like dress clothes after gaining a substantial amount of weight and so I I felt

very exposed like my belly was kind of hanging over my waistband and that was the first time I

had been in an interview setting where that was happening and it was kind of exciting I liked it

of course but it was also you know I was like are people going to notice this and the answer is

always they don't if they do they don't really they don't say anything I think there's a pre-gainer

fear of people really paying attention to you in these settings in your weight and I think people

either don't care or at least don't bring it up it's not something that happens to you when you're

in those settings and there may be instances where it has happened to people but again it's like

kind of hard to prove yeah yeah nuanced and like I get like you know what if it's you know because

I'm still a little bit confused when it comes to charter schools like it seems like you don't

have to have any qualifications whatsoever so it seems like if the CEO or think it thought that

you were good looking enough they might desire you based on that you know but I know that the like

you know public school still has like things that they have to answer for I can talk to that from

the charter perspective it's a little different depending on the state depending on the district

and depending on what your individual charter will allow where I've worked with chargers and I've

been with three different networks it is pretty lucy juicy and what will be allowed however I can

also talk as a hiring manager currently which is just that look the the hiring pool is not super

strong at the moment for educators obviously with my own biases the size of them wouldn't be a

discriminatory factor I would believe towards however having discriminatory factors at all when

your hiring pool is extremely limited I I just don't know how people would be able to justify

that decision at this time when it's hard to get teachers in the classroom period it's all very

interesting to hear about because frankly I'm gonna just be honest about this the most amount of

insight I have into the educators experience is watching episodes of Abbott Elementary you know

people do that thing where it's like which golden girl are you for me like which character from Abbott

Elementary are you I'm very much a shimenti okay like I'm teaching them kids how to gamble and

I'm teaching them how to fucking like get away with some bullshit like that that would be very

much of my approach in the classroom but like unfortunately that's I mean I'm right there with you

like I I am I'm a nurse in the school so like I'm confined to the clinic for the most part but

like I'm making friends with the teachers and like especially the ones in which I have to go into

their classrooms often like Richie I know you're a sped teacher and like my students are the sped

students like I in my school I'm responsible for their health care and their well-being you know

so like I'm getting to know how the the world of education is run and it's it's it's it's been

interesting I have such a great relationship with my students and and they do talk about it they

talk about like they're like their feelings about their bodies and stuff with me and you know

and sometimes that puts me in a weird position because I don't like commenting on any of their bodies

I don't like to comment on students if they do anything to change their look or anything even though

I want to be affirming sometimes being affirming can embarrass them so you know I kind of like

invite them in to have the conversations with me and they're talking about it all the time

they're they're constantly aware of their bodies like more so than I was when I was a teenager

and I was thinking about it all the time there's a lot of stuff on like social media and

you know just different diets and things like that that they're always trying or I don't understand

how this person's thin because they eat like garbage and but there's just a lot of misconceptions

about food and weight and appearance and belonging that I have those conversations all the time with

my students yeah in the middle school world like that that's when what you're talking about

is starting to emerge like those viewpoints and those perspectives and that

concept of self-image is just starting to emerge and then we send them off to you guys we like

have fun good luck so I mean a lot of it is like what I like to do is when I when I hear students

doing student things it's a lot of redirecting and saying hmm what let's let's work on

rephrasing that sentence right there there's a lot of things I never thought I would have to say as

as a combination of words that I do say I'm in pieces so I get it yeah stop goon maxing the

laboo-boo and and whatever the fuck kids are saying I was just gonna say like I know that I'm old

and we all know that I'm old but like I never feel older than when I hear these kids fire off with

something like six seven or skippity toilet or and I'm like I don't know what the hell these kids are

talking about I think that's good you know I'm like you guys can have your thing I'm never going

to be a part of it it's not for me I'm like no but as long as it's appropriate for school then

that's all I care about oh Casey says here we don't talk about gooning in front of the guests like

the superintendent yeah you know like that's that's I feel like that's good that's that's good

courtesy for the future like you know I think if you get to work in a workspace where people talk

about stuff cool but you know sometimes things are reliability and that's and that's real challenging

I will never forget being a teenager and like I don't know the conversations that other people

were having but just like teenage boys disgusting absolutely vile creatures

the memories the thing is boys the the big difference in any of you correct me if I'm wrong

boys are just dumb you correct them and then they just it's over they're done girls are vindictive

and hold grudges you're faster for tobacco for this one is that is that correct in your experience or would

you like to Japanese that at all I sometimes think that the boys are meaner like I think that they

kind of hang on to stuff they need a lot more redirecting for me and I think that the the

conversations I have to have with the boys are a lot more direct and a lot more I have to explain

it multiple different ways and I think a lot of girls are conditioned to just be quiet and

agreeable whereas like I get a lot more pushback from the boys that in my personal anecdotal experience

what yeah tie I know you mentioned that in you know high-read write some more professionals more

respectful there's protocol but I have you had to have any hard conversations about bodies or

body image with with anybody in your experience it stands out or do you feel pretty safe by the

time like do you think things are kind of safer by the time you get to higher ed I think there's

like ribbons of how close I am to certain students here so like someone was in my class I barely

speak to them unless they come find me like in office hours or things like that so I'm I really

basically have no relationship with those students unless they make an effort to know me and they

are off you know in their subordinates and fraternities and who knows what body image stuff is

happening over there and they have but this college has a lot of counseling and a lot of centers

to deal with student mental health because it's a huge crisis in in young people everywhere you know

right and so that that is the thing that I personally am not really involved in however if you

have a student like a grad student who's on your committee or who's in my lab then you get into

a lot more personal stuff and always they you get a lot of students coming into your office and

crying about something and you have to have tissues ready and be your kind of a counselor in that

way I've never had one specifically about body image but I have had like romantic things with

students and not me I mean like them and stuff conflicts with other advisors and stuff like that

so that that I would say isn't impossible that a student would someday come to me and talk about

something like that I think possible yes has it happened yet no and that would probably be more

in the grad student level where they are feel more comfortable with you and are kind of more

involved and personally know you better with colleagues I don't think you know academics are

pretty tight-lipped so everyone's kind of got their own stresses that they

hold tight and don't don't share at work I feel like so within within colleagues there are a few

that I'm like friends with that maybe out of work we might talk about other more personal stuff but

at work that doesn't really happen yeah that's good it's good to have that side of the of the

equation account it for I do feel like we should ask probably the an obvious question with an

obvious answer but you know this is why we have these conversations to to put it out there on

to the airwaves so the people understand that fantasy in reality are not the same thing

Tyler you teach people who are of an age to consent to sexualized scenarios but you are a

teacher how often do you do the gain of fantasy roleplay shit with students never never but why all

the gain of porn says it happens all the fucking time yeah and everybody who DMs me and finds out

that I'm a professor the first thing they say is oh that professor like how many gainer fantasies

are set in college yeah I mean yes in college students and you know it's it's and not all of them

some of them are 17 so not all of them are of age but also they know that's a no thank you very

much for answering that point once again I feel like we have to ask that question

not because I should also mention let me see one more thing in this college town that I'm in

we have one gay bar and it's 18 plus it's so all the student well if you want to go to the gay bar

it is a student bar so luckily they have different levels so the top level is kind of where the

older bears side kind of hangs out but you know you're surrounded by students in a gay bar setting

which is undertones or overtones of a sexual setting and so you really have to have very

strong boundaries and like not if you're gonna go at all which some professors I know do not go

because this is it's too too much yeah KC is telling us this is a true nightmare and I would agree

yeah yeah you can I mean you get used to in a college town you're just around the students all

the times if you kind of get used to it it was kind of jarring when I first got here

running at high school it's so interesting because I think there's a lot of pressure to model

ideal behavior or whatever you envision ideal behavior to be and I mean like I can think of

responsible drinking as an adult even as you mentioned like being in a bar but being

around my high school students that's just not even a conversation I would I wouldn't step into

that willingly and they'll say absolutely had to and it's so easy to avoid being in that scenario

I've I've had a high school student use a fake ID and I ran into them at a bar and I was like

I know you're not 21 and I left like immediately I just didn't want to be anywhere near that

but yeah that's the only incidents I have with that the students otherwise it's they'll talk about

like going out and stuff and it's just we're in two different worlds I have students at this

point who are in their 30s and it is still uncomfortable for me to see them as one

kind of adults because I will always think of them as high school sophomores that's so interesting

that you've oh my gosh but yeah I mean look if you'd be framing that question right like it's an

obvious question but an obvious answer but once again we come to the point of a lot of people will

engage with this topic through the pure lens of fantasy because they hear a key word professor

and their mind clues into the nutty professor right and they go oh I know how that movie turns out

let me just taut along down this path and it's I think very important to remember that ironically

you used to apply this conversation to teachers when you were a student because you see the

bit school and you only see them at school and then because you live in your local town you see

a teacher in the wild and there's a part of you that goes oh yeah you are like a full adult

human who lives a life and you don't just like go into a cubby hole at school and nap until school

the next day like it's remembering that people are far more than what we paint them to be so the irony

of that reflection think about teachers in this context let's also think about teachers in this

context right like they are adult humans who of course can do all of the things but we're talking

about them in teacher mode and so therefore we must remember that and should any of you feel some

inclined to either message these or other teachers you encounter in the Gena community let's make

sure that we keep those lines of conversation very clean and very clear because we're not

the business of crossing any boundaries you can boundaries just really quickly I have had students

make a couple comments on my body in a sexual way which is super super uncomfortable but especially

because like I am Latina and there's some like connotations there as well I worked in a school

where students like they're like how come like all the Spanish teachers got fat asses like

like and it's like well I was like it was part of our interview process and they're like what

and I'm like of course not what are you talking about you can't say that so they're using the

trope of you being a thick Latina against you perhaps oh wow yeah I've gotten that before and so

it really depends I've worked in public schools that are title one public schools where students

felt a little more comfortable commenting on my body and and then I've worked in other districts

where like it doesn't happen as much and so it is it is strange but I have had like comments like

that like people talking about the size of my ass or like if I'm kind of squeezing between

aisles and it's like yeah I'm thick so it is kind of awkward when that comes up especially like

students or minors and it makes me incredibly uncomfortable but I set really clear boundaries

I'm like we don't talk about each other's bodies and you know like I'm not your friend

that disappointed a lot of students they're like I thought we were friends and I said absolutely not

I'm in my 30s it's weird you should never have a friend in your 30s you were teaming I tell

yeah I tell my students and like I will be friendly but we are not friends like I will be nice to you

but we are do we hang out together outside of school no do I want to hang out with you even

here at school not really and then I go and sing I equally dislike all of you yeah you're all tied

for last place in my heart yeah you can only go up from rock bottom I've had patients that

want that set that thought that they were my friend the people that I've taken care of for 30 60

90 days whatever the oh I thought we were friends I'm like no you are the patient I am a nurse I

have a professional boundary to I'm not allowed to cross certain boundaries like and we're and if

I do we're talking about you know license revocation being fired and potentially jail time so like

I'm not trying to fuck with that but that's so interesting because like it kind of makes sense when

the student doesn't understand that line because like they are still a child right they're still

developing social skills etc etc and they just go well you're a human I see regularly so maybe

that's the relationship I'm developing here so I can understand that but like a doubly person is

is so interesting and I do want not necessarily I should qualify I should qualify that I'm not

necessarily talking about senior citizens I've taken care of because I've worked in a various other

capacities and so like some of the younger people who have been around my age like I've taken care

of people younger than me and people who were my age and those were the ones that tried to get

buried buddy buddy with me and I'm sure regardless I'm still qualifying here right like it makes

sense in the the education context like a child's brain is not developed maybe they don't understand

maybe they don't have enough real world experience to understand the difference between friend

acquaintance colleague etc for someone who was of an adult age I would find that surprising perhaps

that in some kind of you know power imbalanced context that they wouldn't necessarily understand

though I am curious to ask something because my aunt is an English teacher and she has been the

forever cool teacher in her school because she's the teacher who doesn't give a fuck and she's

a little bit mean to the students and I wonder if there's correlation here you know she I remember

once talking the story of like one of the kids who always gotten to fight and he decided to turn

in some homework a couple of months late as a loose stack of papers and he goes oh miss

where do I follow this and she held up the bin and said in the filing cabinet the rest of

course work like that's very funny to me and I feel like if I'd had a teacher like that I would

have been like oh you're a cool bitch that's fantastic like is there a correlation there in terms

of as you say you have these sperm boundaries but that like there are instances where the kids go

oh they have boundaries they're being cool therefore you're the cool teacher and now I want to

be your friend or or I want to connect with do you experience that or do you witness that as a

yes I have with all of my students I know the students that I can like lightly roast and they

enjoy it and students that like that's completely off limits it would embarrass them and I get

involved with the clubs and stuff around campus where they're used to having regular conversations

with me I'm the leader of like two affinity groups on campus the the Latinx one and also our

students invited me to be the because we don't have a trans teacher at our school so I also

like supervise the trans and gender nonconforming affinity group so we have like a lot of conversations

that are not academic and I think sometimes they just feel like because I joke around with them

because they tell me their stuff that were friends and I'm like do I ever tell you about my personal

problems I don't like that's not what a friendship is but I was like I love you and I care about you

so it is just kind of navigating that balance individual relationships you know change

and some are more comfortable with me than others what a couple of my students just call me

Thia because like I'm that's on in Spanish and I was like okay like you can call me that but

they're still boundaries and to the boundaries thing it's like I have because I'm very I'm very

obviously I'm not straight and so I have and I work in a rural school it's like a suburban rural

area and so I have a lot of the students asking me the saying hey are you gay or are you in a

relationship I'm like state law prevents prohibits me from answering that question you and I'm not

even if it didn't I am not answering that question until you are graduated and you're over 18 and

you are no longer in this district public education system I'm like after that when you're an adult

when you're at least 19 or 20 come back and find me but like for now off limits also for the

relationship make an inference look at my hands make an inference put them skills to use I had a

slightly different experience I've only worked in Ruben Ed and I made it a pretty clear point

of making sure that my fairness is visible for students so that they have lesson folks they can

look up to and have some role models but I did want to circle back for a second on the idea that

we need to build those close relationships to students to know and navigate boundaries with

individual kids I know that the phrase building relationships is at this point um becoming kind

of a funny trope that we just expect that to solve all problems with behavior management with students

and obviously wrong but one of the things that you were highlighting is that when you do have really

strong relationships with your kids you know what buttons you can push you know where you can't

you know which kids are mature enough to handle play and like roasting you know which students

are doing that's just inappropriate and effective and ultimately is going to be detrimental to the

work that you need to do their development so overall how would you guys categorize your experiences

as a plus sized educator I mean have you experienced more highs than lows or what what's

then how long have you guys been doing and I don't remember if if we all said like if you all

said how long you could do your job this is my 11th year I would say it really depends there are

more moments where I'm aware of my body than others especially like in a high school setting if I'm

in a meeting and someone else's classroom like the desks are really snug and I can really feel

my body and I'm very aware of my body in those moments I feel like I'm on display sometimes I

had one incident so my pants ripped and I was like writing on the board and like the back of my

pants ripped and I didn't know and I like heard some giggling which like of course why wouldn't you

and it wasn't until like the end of the class I had like a girl come and she was like profe

you're you have like a hole in your pants and I was like oh my god thank you for telling me

but then I'm like oh are they gonna think like I'm splitting my pants because I'm so fat and

you know so there are times where I'm more self-conscious than others and you know being in front

of the room like standing there all the attentions on you writing on the board every time you turn

around I'm like I don't know what they're saying I don't know what their faces are doing

sometimes it's easier than others and I've gained a lot more confidence as I've gained more

confidence in myself and my practice but I would say yeah mostly like accommodations in a school

like the school is smaller and it's made for smaller people so sometimes I just feel very out of

place in that way in an accessibility context okay I have also split quite a number of pants but

that's from starting education as a 22 year old with a pretty active eating disorder at six one

and then getting into a bodybuilding world so yeah I split up onto pants the kids will lightly

poke fun at that and this is a place where I feel comfortable playing which is more so like

hey yeah that's what happens when bodies get bigger that's a natural consequence to which they

will say why don't you just buy more pants and the answer is I need you to go yell at your

legislators to fund education so mr. mr. Casey can buy new pants thank you I'm gonna go safety

attendees now what about the world of marine biology are there many opportunities to split your

pants Tyler has that happened to you very often or is it a wet suit that you'll split the

waiters the rubber waiters they do come in one size which is not one size so there is that no

I've never split my pants however when I started in grad school in postdoc it was I did some

teaching in every level and that was when I was thinner and then since then I've been

teaching on the bigger side for five-ish years and being here only two years and this is a giant

campus and so walking from my car where I have to park to my office is like a new struggle with my

shins and ankles that I am experiencing so I'm having to get new shoes and stuff just to be able to

get across campus because there's no parking that's close enough so there's things like that that are

new new phenomena for me on campus but other than that I mean there's there's spaces where

you know like I said there's like assumptions made so taking the stairs walking long distances instead

of driving or something like that is like common and kind of expected they're like you know

sucking up is kind of they that no one says that but I think that's what the they would be annoyed

to be having to accommodate something like that I'm in year five and think the good lord

I have not split pants because to Casey's point mama ain't got the money to constantly replenish

her closet so I'm very fortunate in that sense navigating I mean for all intents and purposes I

look fairly average I mean yeah I've got a belly but like it's not like a hindrance the only

hindrance my god is squawming but that's just because I'm out of shape and I don't work out but

the I I played off I I usually do an exactly like a sweet baby Jesus or Jesus Mary and Joseph as I'm

getting up or whatever like to bring the humor to like take away from the oh dear god I'm struggling

and it usually works yeah I mean I haven't had any major really even minor adverse issues

because of my size one thing I'm also noticing is when I pull like I don't use a laser pointer I like

to physically point when I physically point my stomach shows more so I'm like having to buy longer

clothes to shirts to teach in it's like that meme that's been coming up of that guy on the account

where it's like I'm this but I'm fat so it's like I'm weightlifting but I'm fat and it's him like

lifting weights but constantly pulling his shirt down all like he's shot in a drive fine like he's

already dead but then he has like pull the shirt down to cover his tummy and then go back to being dead

like yeah in my normal life I wouldn't care I don't care if my fellow is exposed that does

about I like that but like yeah in teaching setting I'm like I don't want my students like watching

my body in that way yeah yeah my partner also works in really childhood and educational and let me

just tell you that slacks are not meant to be sitting in wrist-cross applesauce oh yeah I could

imagine that would leave some problems wow is the solution elastic pants then yeah stretch fabrics

like stretch fabrics in the belief in God I don't know it's not great so the irony that they're

trying to band drag in schools but the drag rule of four-way stretch is again probably going to

be your best friend when it comes to clothing that you wear in schools as a fat educator there's a

lot to be said for for practical approaches and it oftentimes being an educational spaces is

somewhat of an active pursuit as such the attire we wear should reflect that right oh there was

not a single day in the classroom where I didn't get more than 12,000 steps in the same ring

my classroom is up like three flights of stairs and then like we don't have an elevator

and the copier is like on the first floor so I'm constantly like going up and down the stairs

all day and I'll do it and I'll have like little middle schoolers or high schoolers like coming up

the stairs to like come to my classroom and they're like and I was like my fat assets can get

up and down those stairs I don't see you out of breath no I think if I had to teach I would be a

diva and be like no a first floor classroom for me please ground floor actually or you could be

like me and be in a single story school with no stairs well I will say Australian schools are

usually single story bungalows like all fully detached like that's how it operates it's I think I

once went to a friend had a sibling that went to a different high school and there's had a second

story that was so fascinating to me I was like there are stairs what do you do with all these stairs

in this school you're just climbing and going up and going down what what what is in these

second story classrooms so fascinating well and you see James this is probably a functional thing

because in my high school we kept the middle schoolers in the basement and that was for everybody

else's protection valid I don't know if this is something that non-educators know but proximity is

such a powerful tool in terms of behavior management but that also means that you were just

constantly wanting to feed walking around the classroom what does that mean like proximity is

as as as a power thing like I mean obviously if it's a smaller classroom like you keep them

together you can watch them but are you talking like like tell me more what do you mean by that

is it one of the current classroom teachers want to take this one so I'm not admins planning

I love that that is rare on an admin side

I would love to have you as an administrator at my school it is like being actively a presence

is behavior management so like walking up and down the aisles like checking in on students

with group work I'm constantly moving around I hear 500 questions and a a block we do 80 minute

blocks I hear 500 questions and I'm constantly pulled in different directions I'm on my feet

all day I'm very active at work it's very physically demanding but yeah it keeps behavior

in line that you are an active presence and like I'm seeing you and you can't you know

dump each other's backpacks out or you know I'm here and I'm aware yeah and then in my world

so being in special ed one of the things is co-teaching so there's the two teachers so I'm always

with my with my counterpart all day so we are constantly like either one of us is always

standing and circulating and so in the other of us is either doing our small group or leading content

but one of us is always standing we found out that if we carry our iSAP removal forms with us

also students are usually oh god they're coming up they're one of them is coming over me I

better get my act together and for people who don't know iSAP is just class removal in school's

suspension and so we we carry that around but yeah nonverbal like classroom management is

huge so I am on my I swear by my underarmors shoes like they are god sands and stretchy pants

my jeans I have multiple wash colors so it's not looks like I'm wearing jeans but I'm wearing jeans

because they got stretchy they got a stretch fabric and I'm like I need mama needs that

now I do want to ask a question I'd mention the avid elementary before and I feel like it is

the most relevant piece regarding education in the zeitgeist so I do just want to put it out

that the teacher's magas like uh who do you identify with in the show like who are you in the

avid elementary cast miss you mentee bar brother I feel violently seen by the character Jacob and

as also a white dude who went to primarily wagons as a teacher in ergo I want to be the principal but

I know I'm not I probably miss tees I'm the nerdy what nerdy one who's excited to be there that's

wait I like that now now I need to know from from all of you all as teachers who do you think

the three of us are because I said I identify as a shimenti you may think of me in someone very very

different but I'd love to know who will we very respectfully Jane I can see you either as Mr. Johnson

the janitor or Greg or Gregory Gregory okay that's fine I can stand to be a Gregory that's fine

note Tim's miss I could have already told you Tim is Mr. Johnson how did I know it you know it's

like what I know I was happy that you got Mr. Johnson for fucking once like why I always

because you because you tell stories okay like oh also when you talk about because you love

yourself a screen diva's if you were teaching the children about so the creative they'd be like

Mrs. Scott's a thousand years old like he just talks about these people that are long since dead like

it's called culture

teaching you some theatricality I feel like Tim has at least a Barbara rising

your Abbott what is your Abbott what is your Abbott horoscope well that's always comparing

me to he's always saying that I'm Barbara but like I don't know well it's because like if I'm

Melissa then you are definitely Barbara because like the two of them together like you can't

fuck with the old bitches you just can't be bothered and that is very much the two of us together

like that I would argue actually capy could be a good stand-in for Ava I might be the only

person on this call who hasn't seen Abbott element so you want literally disgusting and dead in my

eyes I'll very dare you I'll nod your education together yeah I'll nod and smile oh Ava would say

that scene the goods are there goodness but as our as our conversation draws to a close I wanted to

ask a question of our educators kind of in reflection of our conversation looking to the future

what would you like to see change about how plus-sizedness is handled or addressed in your

respective educational circles I think having had this conversation I think what is a

commonality is it's often just not brought up or not spoken about and so having I don't

necessarily want to be the one to take that charge where I'm like we got to talk about plus-sized

bodies in work or you know so having that administratively or structurally available as part of

discussions about if we're going to do renovation of a building or anything like that you know I think

would be great absolutely I think too just sort of there's a lot of like policies in place that

are supposed to be accommodating to different people and about discrimination and I would really

love to see fatness included in that instead of as a moral failing and I would really love morality

to like not be attached to fatness in in our conversations that would be my ideal world but

definitely accommodations like my school wanted me to buy shirts to wear and like they only

went up to an excel and I was like I wear like a 2x3x you know I would I would like to be a part

of this and it feels weird to have me like scrunch into this for work in my free time yes I'll do that

but not for work stuff for me I want I want I want to see something like on the student side for

like its social emotional skills like if we're all talking about mental health because I know that's

been brought up as well in this conversation but like having those conversations as really starting

I would say even in the elementary world or but for sure in like the 7th eighth grade world

through high school is like have those conversations of creating a holistic positive

positive self image so how do you do that and that's including what your body looks like and feels

like it how to be positive in that because while it's not necessarily talked about adult to

adult or colleague to colleague I think we all agreed or can agree that it's for sure talked

about students to student or students about students and so self image and then being building

up towards positive culture I think that folks in this sector as a whole are really

skilling up and interrogating their own internal biases however I think that interrogating

biases around fat phobia specifically is an area that we haven't caught up yet and I also really

challenged leaders to start thinking about that in the way that they structure their programs

their their dress codes handbooks all these structural things that it's so easy to have your

own biases meeting if they're not paid careful attention to you all I just want to say thank you

so much for today's conversation I think this has been really fun and it's also been really informative

and again I think important to really reframe the notion that fanaties not reality and that there

are deep conversations on what it means to talk around about fat because for many of us processing

ideas of shame around our desire to grow a lot of this starts in childhood and a lot of the

starts when we're in schools and we hear things from teachers from fellow students and so it's

very interesting to hear a snapshot about the state of things especially as it concerns people

who are out there working as teachers and doing incredible things in this world so thank you to

each of you for being teachers because frankly you'll do not get paid enough you'll don't get

thanked enough you'll don't get given enough holidays so at the very least here on thick radio allow

us to say thank you for being fabulous thank you for everything you've contributed today but now

it is time to ask where can the listeners find each of you online don't find me honestly I don't

want students to find me or anything like that but yeah that's it I'm in the win yeah non-students can

find me I'm most active on Instagram it merely overfed but I'm on all the boost guy and grammar as

well well I again non-students please for the love of God I can be found at moan apatite on

Instagram grammar non-students can find me at Casey's study on blue sky everybody else can find me

screaming in your local woods I actually don't mind sharing mine if it's like non-students

on I'm on Instagram at our ebc 68 are and any of their students you can look at the rest of us

maybe don't if you're underage please don't come anywhere near us but I mean if you're all

age have questions would like to know more um feel free to reach out to us at the thickredioachymel.com

if you have questions um and you know what if you are someone who happens to be underage listening

to this and is curious about the world of gaining to have some appreciation for the fact that there's

something that you can listen to that provides some context and education for what you may or

may not be experiencing right now so in that case uh go and listen to the back kind of log of

episodes and uh just do that until you uh become a legal age don't bother us otherwise but that's

a fine enough place to leave it for now here on thick radio uh thank you everyone so much for

you all time today please remember to like and subscribe radius five stars and leave us a good

review if you'd like this episode the podcast our guests or just us in general please share it

with your friends and encourage them to tune in you can find me on instagram and blue sky at stanem

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so until next time bye fats bye fats bye fats let's talk about it

thick radio is a Spotify podcast artwork media design editing and production by James

with original theme music by cymk