Gus Grillasca on Rare Pepes, Bitcoin Banknote Art & Creative Engineering | Bitcoin Art Podcast w/ Asanoha Ep. 1

that we are live on both Twitter and Noster

and I really appreciate your patience.

I have been beating my head against the wall,

trying to figure out how to make this streaming situation

work out without caving in and KYC into one

of the plug and play platforms, such as Riverside,

which it seems to be is what most people use,

probably because of how difficult this has been.

So thank you for your patience.

How are you doing today?

I'm going to make a couple quick little announcements.

And then I'm just going to ask you some questions

about Bitcoin, Bitcoin art, and your journey

as a Bitcoin artist.

This is the Bitcoin art podcast presented

by Bitcoin Art Magazine.

And I would like to shout out all of our sponsors.

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Thank you to all of our sponsors.

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and Bitcoin art magazine who have ordered

copies of the magazine and or fine art book.

And last but not least, most importantly,

thank you to all of the artists that

are creating beautiful art out there

that have allowed this to be possible

and have allowed me to help facilitate bringing to life

this whole entire project.

So today on the show, we have Gus Grulaska.

And Gus, you're going to have to tell me

how I pronounce your last name correctly.

I mean, that's correct.

Originally, it goes Grulaska, the way you said it.

Here in Mexico, in some places in the Spanish world,

they call it Griaska because the double L sounds like a G.

But now, that's actually correct the way you said it.

OK, I'm going to say Grulaska then and not trying

and trying not to butcher it too much

by trying to pronounce it in Spanish.

Cool, right on.

So Gus is featured in the Genesis Edition

of Bitcoin Art magazine.

If you haven't picked up your copy of the magazine,

head over to bitcoinartmagazine.com

and grab a copy of the magazine.

And sweet.

Yeah, cool, man.

So how have you been?

How's it going?

And what are you up to right now?

Do you, are you working on any new art projects?

I don't know, give me a little check-in.

Yeah, I mean, I'm always doing new designs

and exploring new techniques basically

because I just like to keep trying new stuff,

new materials, new media.

That's what keeps me going.

So this year, I mean, it's kind of a surprise.

I don't want to say too much.

But I've been working in designs with Mossikes

and like a new series that I've been preparing

since the end of last year.

Hopefully I'm going to have some new pieces

by the end of the month so I can start

sharing in social media.

And as always, I'm just, I like to draw.

So I keep drawing on paper and on wood

in different like plywood and digital.

I make a lot of the signs in digital with the tablet.

So once I start getting a design that I like,

I just keep working on it and try to take it to the new step,

to a new level to bring it to the public.

And that's when I usually incorporate new materials

like acrylic or try to paint it on a canvas.

So that's what I've been doing.

This is my, in a very broad sense,

this is my general creative process

that I've been doing for the past several years.

Awesome.

And how long have you been making Bitcoin art for?

And then tell me how long have you been making art

in general for?

OK, so if we consider drawing, like being an illustrator,

if we consider that I've been doing art since,

since as long as I can remember, since I was a little kid,

I've always liked to draw.

And not just draw, in general, plastic,

any media that it's physical media,

even sculptures and all the kinds of designs

on different materials, I've been doing that forever.

I'm actually an engineer as a professional career.

It's, I'm a chemical engineer.

So for the most part of my yearly adult life,

I was working as an engineer in different fields.

I worked in the pharmaceutical industry,

in the recycling industry, in the petrochemical industry.

But I've always, always have a foot on the art world

because I just like to keep being creative.

And it wasn't until two.

I mean, I started learning about Bitcoin in 2014 and 2015.

But in 2016, I came across the rare Pepe community.

And that's when I really, I realized

that I could thrive with my creative process in this industry.

Because before 2016, I was trying to get more involved

in the Bitcoin community and just like living behind my career

because I, for a lot of different reasons,

personal reasons and professional reasons,

I wanted to shift to something more internet focused.

So I wanted to, to, to, I was living in Europe.

I was looking for a way to come back to Mexico.

I was born in Mexico.

But I was like, I beat by that time by 2014.

I was almost a decade, I was almost for a decade.

Living in, in Europe.

And I was already used to those wages, you know?

And coming back to Mexico, we, I mean,

it represented a big hit to my, to my, to,

yeah, to, to my economy in general.

I just didn't see myself starting from scratch

and sending CVs to, to start from, from, from the bottom, you know?

And, and I already have a company there in Europe.

And I, I just couldn't afford to start from scratch.

But then, when I, when I learned about Bitcoin,

I realized that this, this industry and this ecosystem,

I was just so passionate about it.

I mean, like, like so many of us,

it just blew our, blew up my mind,

just learned about this technology,

to learn about the potential, the ideology,

all that techy stuff and the nerdy stuff

that we could develop in this industry.

So I just tried more and more to move into this direction.

But I didn't knew exactly what was my role in this industry.

So I tried like getting involved in podcasts

or organizing meetups, trying to get involved in, in software development

with, with a small team of, of friends that I put together.

And it wasn't until 2016, with the rare paper community,

that it was the birth of the, of the rare paper phenomena,

that I realized that I could actually develop my creative side,

my artistic side and sell art for BTC.

And I started doing that at the end of 2016.

And I believe that since then, I have,

I mean, my activity in that direction had just increased.

That's, that's awesome.

So RarePepase was really the entry point for you

and to Bitcoin art.

Yes.

And you're, and you're a RarePepae OG.

So you've, you've been around since the real, the real,

the, the real RarePepase.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I was very early,

very early into the, into the RarePepae community.

I think one month or two months after the, the directory launched.

I, I came across the, the directory in a Bitcoin meetup in, in Toronto.

And I mean, just, just, it was a fortune thing that some friend of mine

showed me the, the directory and, and from there,

I start minting and, and doing designs, paper designs.

Of course, everything related to Bitcoin in one way or another.

And, and from there, I, I've just been more and more active

in different areas of, of, of art related to Bitcoin.

That's awesome.

That what, tell me a little bit, what do you feel,

how do you feel about Pepe's right now as of today?

Do you feel like they're, they're still going strong and the,

and the community, I think, is still quite strong, yes?

But do you, like, do you feel like there's, you know,

with fake rares?

And then I think they are doing the commons.

What is that, what is that, what it is they're doing?

Yeah, there are common, there are several different directories.

Okay.

The, I mean, the, the industry has grown so much that it's,

there's always a little bit of everything.

Yeah.

I, I firmly believe that the idea of digital collectibles

is never going to go away.

It's just too powerful.

It's too powerful for creators to, to just keep,

keep that idea running, too big to fail.

But, but the, the brand, the NFT brand,

at the end of 2021 made, made a lot of harm to, to the idea.

So, let me elaborate a little more.

So the idea of having digital collectibles

goes back to Hal Fini at the beginning of the 90s.

So, I mean, that, that idea of having a digital good

outside of, of Bitcoin itself,

it's been in, in the forum since, for decades now.

And I think it's just like, it's, it's common sense.

It, it, it, it's just, it, it just brings to the table

a lot of possibilities for, for everyone

to exchange goods in, in cyberspace.

But then, of course, during the pandemic, like, we started

doing the rare papers in 2016, after a couple of years

of people experimenting with the idea of tokens.

And, and the, and these tokens, these collectibles

start growing, growing, since 2016, 17, 18.

But the product was not finished, in my opinion.

It was under construction.

When the pandemic came along, it just like the idea was,

there was so much demand for these products

that it blew every expectation.

Everyone started doing NFTs.

And most of them were, were crap,

were just like very deficient products,

very, very bad quality products.

And that brought, brought down, eventually brought down

the, the big bubble of 2021.

And I think that, that industry in particular,

the digital collectible industry,

haven't recovered from that big bubble in 2021.

And the brand NFT, as a, yeah, as a brand, I would say,

made a lot of harm to the idea of having a digital collectible,

because everyone associates now NFT to, to a scam.

Yeah, just, just something not, not,

something that is a scammy, basically, right?

So that's, that's a problem.

But I believe that the idea of owning a digital collectible

is too powerful.

That's not going to go away.

And going back to your question, specifically about rare

papers, that's a super strong community,

because that's a real, that's a real project driven

by, by, by the people, by the community.

That, that have became cliche ever since.

But, but this is that, this is the, the, the,

the one that is true to that, to that idea.

Like it just, it just keeps going, that, that community

doesn't need sponsors, doesn't need marketing,

doesn't need VCs throwing money to pump the brand.

Just, it just works because it's a powerful meme,

and it's a powerful idea behind it.

So, I think it's, it's, it's just going to grow.

Obviously, compared to other pump and dump schemes,

sometimes it seems that is not growing,

or sometimes for some, some people believe that it's shrinking,

that it's dying.

But that's because other projects grow so fast,

that it overshadows the, the growth of these organic

communities.

But, but, but the fact is that, is been growing ever since,

every year is bigger and bigger.

So, I'm bullish on it.

Yeah, yeah, I hear everything you're saying,

and it is, I think it's, it's tragic in a lot of ways,

how the, you know, the VC funded influencer pump and dump,

and FTs kind of cycle that, that we went through,

that happened, and that's still happening in certain ways.

It's kind of unfortunate for like artists that are,

that, you know, actually have conviction and passion

about the art they're creating, you know,

utilizing NFTs or tokens as a way to spread their art

and fund their art, you know?

And so, it's, it's really, it's interesting.

It'll be interesting to see how it all unfolds

and what happens in the coming years with it.

Because I mean, it's, it did.

It got, it got really bad there.

I think that, you know, selling a digital print

in a lot of ways is similar to selling a physical print.

And, you know, there's also, there's also stuff

with like video game skins and, and video game characters

that like, there's been digital collectibles

for, for a long time in, you know,

most major video games, but they're, they're, you know,

siloed or sandboxed to that, that game or that platform.

And, and, you know, so there's definitely like,

there's definitely demand for it.

And, you know, it's unfortunate.

Yeah, it's just unfortunate that the,

the, like the real pump and dump hype kind of element

of it that came through and gave it,

gave a lot of other stuff that maybe was, you know,

from actual genuine intentions, a bad, a bad game and stuff.

Yeah, because it's true that possibilities for these applications

for this idea are, are countless.

But we, we have just been flooded with bullshit.

So, so it's, it's really hard, even for us,

that we are, we are very deep into this idea.

Sometimes it's so, so hard to, to discern which projects are

valuable. So, I mean, that this industry in particular,

the crypto collectible industry, it just needs,

needs time to mature and, and, and to condense into what's

really valuable. And I'm, I'm positive that, that very

valuable stuff are going to come out of this.

Yeah, no, it's, it'll be interesting to see how it all

unfolds. Hey, can you see my, you can see this,

yeah, my screen right now that I'm sharing. Yeah. Cool.

Let's talk a little bit about these, just these art pieces that

are right on here. Maybe let's just start with this first one.

So, 2024 cyber hornet. I think I remember this piece.

This is on wood, yes. Yes. So, in that particular series,

I was, I was doing the science on paper, but I mean, so part of

the restrictions that I have for, for some of these collections is

that I want to take them to, to the United States or sometimes to

other, to other forums around the world. And there's always a

trade off. If you do it on paper, then you need to take a frame,

or you need to frame it on site. So, you know, there's always a

hustle, when it comes to choosing the materials and the medium,

and the way you want to show your artwork at a specific event.

So, what I try to do with this particular series is, I made some

drawings on paper on a really nice paper, actually, on a

thick cotton paper. But then I caught them and used them as

stencils on plywood. And I painted on top of that with a

acrylic. So, I like to always use as many tools as I can. So,

for this particular one that we are seeing, I was doing cyber

hornet designs for the Icarus cards, probably you're familiar

with those. Yeah. So, I made the last year, this was two

years ago in 2014, 2024. I mean, I made three designs for Icarus

cards. So, I made several bulls, cyber bulls and a cyber whale

and cyber hornets. So, this is one of the, one of the cyber

hornets. And I cut it on paper. But in order to bring it to this

one, I sold it in Nashville. So, I remember it there. Okay,

yeah, cool. Yeah. I really liked it. I wanted to give it

like a street art touch. What I didn't want to just bring a

roll paper and try to put it on a frame there. So, I came with

the idea of putting it on good. So, this is a piece of wood. I

burned it a little bit to give it this dark, dark aspect. And

then I used different acrylic colors to give some lights. And

I just caught the hand drawing design and put it there. And then

at the end, I always put a little bit ofarnish on top. So, I

think it worked really well. People loved it. And I have several

of these. I have the whale that I sold it in in Salvador, also

in 2024 and a bull and some papers. So, I like that series. This

is just like a sneak peak of of those artworks. No, that's

awesome. I love the ingenuity of, so you say, so you said it

is, it's a drawing on paper. But then you cut the paper out. And

then adhesive, there's some kind and then varnished over on

the wood. I love that ingenuity because I totally feel you on

the struggle of always, like I've shipped rolled canvases to an

event and then had to like frame them. And then I ordered

framing bars or bought framing bars there. And then like

hand stretched the canvas like, you know, in an Airbnb for the

event. And then I've I've flown with, you know, framed in a

acrylic, frames, you know, paper and stuff. And so all of the

different, the different struggles and kind of trying to figure

out how to how to get it, you know, from one place to another is

always so interesting. It's always evolving my, my, I mean,

the way I'm trying to present, I mean, I've seen, I see some

artists around us that they have this, so this clear way of

presenting their work every time. And I just like admire them

because I don't know if I'm going to get to a point where I am

satisfied with the way you're always presenting my work and just

stick to that. I don't know if I'm going to be able to get

there because I'm always chair, I'm always experimenting. As you

said, like, I sometimes I get a frame, I change the glass

for, for just acrylic acrylic. Yeah. So to prevent to prevent it

from breaking or or having issues at the airport. And yeah, I'm

just experimenting all the time. I tried a lot of different ways

of presenting there. I can feel miserable time. I mean, working a lot

on an artwork and then it just looks terrible on the wall because

I don't know, is not a nice frame or is is not stretched enough so it

looks lame. So, I mean, I guess if you see that as a learning

process, it's good because we are just we are all in this

industry, right? Yeah, absolutely. I recently have done some of my

first pieces on wood and was was excited to kind of find on.

I like how you I like the I like the plywood technique,

just the the strength of that, the tensile strength, because I

kind of did the like obvious route and went to the like you know,

the like framed wood artist panel. But then it's like the surface is so thin

that you know, like I had I ordered some panels and they weren't

of acceptable quality and they were kind of warped. And so I did then find

ones that were with a stronger wood a bass wood from ampersand. And those

seemed to be like a higher quality artists wood panel.

But the plot just a straight sheet of plywood I feel like is probably your

strongest, your strongest option that you know, if it gets tossed around in

luggage or the mail or something, it's you know, the least chance of it

getting damaged or breaking, you know, or getting a whole punch through it.

Sure, yeah, yeah, so I've recently changed to using thinner pieces of plywood

and just adding, how do you say Bastidor in the brace on the back?

Yeah, brace on the back exactly. Yeah. So I think that's the so far is the best

surface, the best platform for me that has the equilibrium between

strength and not being too heavy because you don't want to, you know,

like travel with heavy stuff because it's just more expensive and it

makes everything more complicated. So you want something that is light but

is resilient and that's what I found so far that is the best.

But I'm still experimenting all the time. Yeah, yeah, no, it's so it's fun, it's

almost it's almost just materials of that you can use like mediums for

making art are almost like they all have like an art form in and of

themselves and just learning to work with or coming up with a new method of

displaying artwork is like the whole is a is a whole art form in itself.

Tell me a little bit about your bank note. Yeah, this I think we've got this

one's featured in the Genesis edition of Bitcoin or magazine and tell me a

little bit how you made this what what kind of materials you used

and maybe a little bit behind the inspiration or. So my my series of

bank notes started in 2017 I think I made the first

design the first attempt. So I have since I was a child I have always had

my ear the the crafting of the designs in the in the

bank notes in the in the paper we see just like I mean

nowadays he's just like so bad right because

money is just getting so so cheap that they don't even put the the effort in

hiring good artists to to make the designs anymore. They just do it with

Photoshop and it looks lame but but back in the day I mean they just had

they just had the best designs like it's incredible the

the work of the penmanship that that we're doing the the cross-catching

all the all the all the very talented illustrators

doing the designs on the bank notes so I love to go into museums

and just look at that that style of of illustration is is some of my favorites

and so I always had the idea since since the year my early days in Bitcoin

I always had the idea of of doing some sort of of of that kind of

of art incorporated into my artwork so in 2017

I I made a first attempt to make a Bitcoin bank note which is a little

similar to the other one the one in the right the Bitcoin

Bagnot the one of Miami the black and white yeah it's a little bit

similar to that one this is this is every year I'm trying to publish a new

so in 2018 I took to I brought to Miami by first Bitcoin bank note design

and I just loved it I mean it was pretty much like this one that we are seeing

like the idea of Satoshi Nakamoto the face of Dorian you know

representing Satoshi Nakamoto of course and with some memes around him

related to the blockchain and some other elements

and I just love the idea and I said okay I'm going to try to stick to

to this series this is something that I love so I'm going to keep doing it every

year I'm going to publish a new design and that's what I've been doing

but then I I realized that I enjoyed a little bit almost as much or maybe more

I enjoyed just just criticizing the the current

fiat standard the fiat system so instead of just making

happy Bitcoin Bagnots and you know like happy happy art and

and bullish art I start doing a little bit more dark and you know critical of

the system I like to to take out all this all

all these darkness that we perceive in the in the legacy system in the banking

system so I I I realized that I could

explore those ideas through my bank notes and make realistic bank notes of

banking system and the fiat system so since I think 2020 to or 2022

I started all instead of just doing Bitcoin Bagnots just focus on Bitcoin

I put a little touch a little something else and and also

to prevent myself from moving too far away from the Bitcoin narrative

sometimes I put augmented reality in these designs

so if if anyone has a archive or an app like like that

what one of those apps you can actually see on top of these designs

the the Bitcoin bank note that comes on top so so I invite our listeners and

the the people buying the Bitcoin art magazine to try with your archive app

just one of these designs and you'll see the the Bitcoin bank note popping up

so that's that's the main idea behind this this series and I tried to do a

different one every year last year was called the final battle this year I'm

working in in something related to the federal federal reserve and I that's

my way of of getting out all these conspiracy ideas all these

toxicity that we feel the coming from from this corrupt system

and and putting them out there and people loved it I get really good

reception from from the public with these designs

let people come and say I mean it it looks as it is I'm exaggerating but not

really you look at this design and every element in there is part of the

mainstream narrative like they're pushing UFOs and aliens and all these

narratives that a few years ago would sound completely crazy now you can you

can you can you can they are part of the propaganda machine

yeah absolutely love the you got the reptilian general up here in the corner

business man alien I I absolutely love this this one actually was bought by by the Bitcoin

magazine and they have it at the Bitcoin art museum in Nashville and Nashville which shout out

to them I think they it looks like they're kind of taking a little bit of a more initiative on

that and I think they're kind of officializing it more I think I saw there they've named it

the Bitcoin museum and art gallery I believe or be mag for short yeah I mean tell me

you have done a great work in in helping this company to grow yeah no absolutely and

and they've got an amazing collection curated over there have you been over there?

yeah yeah nice I went to to Nashville in that event that Trump attended

okay it was 2024 yeah and yeah I have the chance to visit the headquarters and the museum and

yeah the collection is amazing they come amazing they have three of my pieces there and I'm

I'm honored to be amazing yeah so tell me a little bit about or I mean I guess I don't know

if you've done them all differently but what what tools are you using to create these notes and

then what what material is it done on or printed on like the one that like say this one that is

over at the Bitcoin magazine museum art museum gallery yeah so my strategy with this series is

I I start designing on digital on my tablet okay and then once I have a general design that

it's I'm satisfied with but that is just it's still sketch yeah but it's already good enough

for me then I print it on canvas okay and then I paint with acrylic on top so I finish the work

with acrylic okay top of the print on canvas so I end up with acrylic on canvas basically

and and a few of the elements you'll see that will be very hard to to paint by hand that's why

it's a mix between print and handmade brush painting with acrylic and then that's a one of one

and I usually sell it on an auction and then I make posters out of it smaller of course like just

prints yeah and once the original is sold I usually make smaller versions in a poster format

sometimes also print on canvas but it's just it's just a print in a smaller size so I I'm looking

forward to make a small show at some point with all the designs together I just haven't put

I haven't find a place to do it but maybe in one of these events so yeah I was going to ask you

is do you have any prints of any of these still available and if so where would someone be able to

get one I mean the idea is to make an e-commerce on my website eventually which I had already

but last year I had to start my website from scratch for I made a big mistake not renewing

the original host and then I lost everything so I started from scratch and I mean that's good

because it's gonna give me the chance to do it better but the idea is just to contact me through

my website and and we can make a deal directly with me I still have I don't know if I still have

posters of the slave money but definitely I have the fiat standard I still have posters of that one

and I have posters of some others so I need to put them up in the website but yeah I do I do have

some still awesome so if anybody wants one just reach out to you through the contact form on your

website and you can send them some pictures of what you still have available and you and I'm

you you said you'd like to do a gallery sometime with all of the posters from the whole series

I'm assuming you're saving some of them maybe some of the exactly the number 21's are the good

numbers and exactly I try to save at least one of each to make a full show sooner rather than later

awesome um I think that'll be really cool even if it's even if it's just even just the photographs

of that you know being able to having them online just being able to show I love um you know

it's it's I feel like it's one of those you know kind of beautiful things with artwork and series

of artwork where you cannot like it's just the proof of work of like doing multiple designs of

something especially so detailed such as these and then being able to show them all at once is so

is so impressive and just just really awesome so I look forward to whenever you figure out a good

place to do that and yeah for just you doing it and hopefully I can see it in person but like I

said even just getting to see a photograph of them all by you know side by side would be amazing so

yeah thanks man cool okay you got to tell me about this Pepe credit we have Pepe credit featured

in the Genesis edition of Bitcoin art magazine yeah that one is in a full full page in the

magazine and I really like this design I'm I'm really happy that that you guys liked it too

this one came so the original token is from I forgot the exact deer what I think is from

back in 2017 or something okay the Pepe credit and

it went into the directory of the fake errors I believe a couple of years ago or three years ago

and then I just refined this design to put it on that on that directory and the way I did it is

just like digital handmade design for the most part then the Gilosh design and the background I

I used a design that I work with polymetric okay and so he's doing these designs like

several of them he he have shared with me so we can I could try in different

bagnots so the the Gilosh this part part of the Gilosh design on the background not everything but

just like a little bit part of the frame I work it out with with polymetric and yeah basically

everything else is just handmade by me and but it's it's drawn in a in a nap that it's called

fresco by Adobe that allows you to draw directly on vectors so this this this original design is

vectorized so I can just printed the size of a building if I want to that's so that's awesome yeah

I'm gonna have to check out this app you speak of because I like to do stuff and I like to work

with vectors I do a lot of stuff in Adobe Illustrator and yeah it's it's it's like working with

Illustrator but but but you can draw yeah that's amazing I'm gonna have to check that out

so I did it when with fresco the whole the whole design awesome awesome and then are there any

did you ever do any are there any prints of this available yeah yeah I think maybe I have a

couple left but yeah this is I made a series of lithographies on cotton paper for this one

and I sold them most of them I sold them in 2020 I think it was that where was this

papers in Paris I think it was in 2023 so I that's where I sold most of those I'm sure that I

might have one maybe or two left but not too many so and yeah the lithographies look great

people love them I imagine they're beautiful they're really nice yeah and I print them in two

different colors of paper so one is just white but the other one is ivory I call it ivory

and that one looks amazing too because it's like looks a little bit vintage so I love the way it looks

beautiful you you should see if you have any left and then sign a copy of Bitcoin art magazine

and then maybe auction the print with the magazine and you know take some photos of the of the art

in the magazine next to the print you know definitely yeah yeah that's a great idea I will

so let me let me know when you do that and I will you know push it out to all of our channels

and promote it so I really want to I want to try and do that more in upcoming issues but also

for the just you know for this current Genesis edition you know see like some of the art is a lot

of the arts past art artists have made but some of them still have a print or two I think a couple

people still have an original but a lot of it sold or a lot of the you know a lot of the art in the

magazine like if there's prints like most of them are already sold so I think there might some

cool opportunities for the artists to like pair them with a magazine and auction it off so I'm

yeah I'll do that yeah cool cool okay tell me tell me a little bit about this here we've got

Dorian Nakamoto with the Bitcoin cigar yeah so I did I draw this one for Miami Satoshi Montana

for one of the Miami events there were like I don't know three consecutive years I believe

that the Bitcoin magazine hosted the event in Miami so for one of those I made this one I also

printed a series of lithographies for this design which has been also very well

received by the public well I mean I think it's self-evident it's just like Satoshi Nakamoto being

these boss like Mafia boss burning the dollars with the cigar and I used it for the for the central

image of one of the banknotes I think is the one on top on the top on the right yeah so I

I had lithographies of that one too awesome and then and then these are this is also digital drawing

did you did you and let me ask you the like the the cross hatching is did you do that all by hand

or is that using a tool no no no it's all by hand oh that's amazing man I'm not as like I'm still

working on perfecting my technique because of course like compared to the great masters is not

that perfect but yeah I mean I I'm working on it I really enjoy doing that technique so I'm

looking forward to improve it's it's I know that nowadays there are several tools and they are

getting better and better but for instance if you do that with AI nowadays the problem that you

have is that you will have a small png image you know whereas if you do it by hand with a tool

that I just described the fresco up for instance yeah you will have a design that you can

print the size that you want yeah so that's what I'm working with I'm trying to do this kind of

technique by hand with with one of these apps so we can have the design there and we can print it

any size we want in any media oh that's awesome no it's it's very beautiful work it's far

better than any cross hatching I've ever done so yeah I am both both of these no I've played around

with like some tools and Photoshop for it a little bit but that's the extent of my experience with

that I love it so also like halftone stuff indelible I think is making some cool halftone

pieces recently has been screen printing cool right on hey I'm going to plug your website here I

realized I may have not plugged it yet so Gus Gralaska.com that's g us g r i l l a s c a.com and you

can also find Gus Gralaska on Twitter or I guess x fine but yeah I'm gonna I'm still calling it

Twitter you can find yeah I refuse to call it hey I mean yeah it's just weird it's just

creating more confusion yeah Gus that's at Gus Gralaska on Twitter that's g us g r i l l a s c a

and you're also on instagram at instagram.com slash Gus Gralaska. I need to I'm also a noster I need to

update my website to put my my profile there I just I think I haven't been able to to get my name

in my noster profile or something that's what that's what was keeping me from publishing it but you

can find me there too like Gus Gralaska everywhere yeah I was able to find you on primal by searching

in the search bar but the noster one's a little tricky what I've ended up what I've just done is

if I if you pay for primal app they give you like a vanity URL so it's like primal.net slash

osanella and so that's just what I've done for the ease of it so I know there's that and then I

think it's also the nippo 5 identifier can give you like if you search for someone's like I think

it's like osanella at nosterplebs.com you'll pop up so there's a couple ways to do it but it is

a little bit tricky getting the name or getting something clickable and it not just be the n pub

so you might be able to let me check something real quick if we go to primal

and then if we go to your page and primal

we might be able to just grab the URL let's see if I can okay so cool so you it looks like you can

if you open up your website on primal or your if you open up your noster page on primal and then

I think if you just copy the URL it's like primal.net slash p slash n profile and then I think

that's just your n pub so you could use that to make like a clickable link but you know you're

not going to really use the URL like as a as a human readable version so but to add a little icon

down here which you definitely should because I was looking yesterday to post for this episode

on noster and was like dang where's his where's his noster and then I was like does he have one

and then I found you on there but um yeah I think I find it here on primal yeah I'm gonna do that I'm

gonna add uh yeah cool right on man well I appreciate you taking the time with me here today

and um oh there's a cool video on here should we play this video uh I think it's a little bit too

long okay it's um it's a it's an interview of some guys that I have collaborated here in Mexico

it shows uh I invite the people that are listening to to watch it later it's it's like 15 minutes

longer okay it's more than 10 minutes long um but it's cool because you can see my studio you can

see where I work kind of the things that I do in general so uh it's a cool video it's just I think

it's a little bit too long for this interview okay I won't play it right now but I'm gonna go and watch

it uh after this and I I also encourage anybody listening to go to gaskrelaska.com and at the

bottom of the about page or at the bottom of the bitcoin page there is a there is a there is a video

that you can check out Gus's studio and learn a little bit more about him so yeah right on man

well I really appreciate you I appreciate everything you're doing and I I'm really stoked and honored

that we got to have you in the magazine here the Genesis Edition and it's it's nice getting to do

these episodes because I get to talk to all the artists a little bit longer and get to learn a

little bit about you because I at the conferences it's always so kind of busy and stressful I feel

like I never really got to hang out with um you know hang out with the other artists as much as I

would like to so yeah conferences are crazy man but this is a great space I mean I'm I'm really

thankful that you're doing this I mean all the work for the magazine in general but the especially

this this podcast getting out there exposure to the to the artists is it's an amazing contribution

so thank you very much it's amazing man yeah I'm honored and I appreciate the kind of words

you were you know I think right now this is the only so that we're I'm doing the bitcoin art

podcast and then we're also doing the whole entire universe which is hosted by Onik Malcolm

and so I think right now these are the only two active regular audio gallery podcast events

happening for bitcoin art right so because art of freedom stop which you were helping with

art of freedom for a while right yeah I tried to help them keep it running for a little while

but both flow and rebel I think right now they they they have personal

things that are keeping them from running the show so they haven't updated the public

into when would be a good time for them to restart the show so I'm also waiting if they if they

want help from me I'm I'm gonna be willing to do so to help with the show but yeah I was just

helping a little bit to to put out a few shows that were already programmed but yeah hopefully they

will put it back live go go back to to host the show because it was a great show but they we

don't have like as far as I know we don't have a date right now to start again to start again

yeah huge huge respect to you guys and them and big shout out to art of freedom because they

went for a pretty long time I think almost the whole year they did like every Monday and so they

they did a had a really strong push so I am you know I'm the more the better I figure you know

and as far as it's cool Bitcoin art I feel like it's kind of got the same game theory as Bitcoin

where like it there's it there there is competition obviously is anything but it's healthy and

it's good and like the more competition there is the better it is for everybody so it's like the

more Bitcoin art podcasts we've got going the more Bitcoin art galleries that are happening the

better for all of us so I just think that's great and yeah I hope I do hope they start up again

and there's also shout out to Clay you know who had the Bitcoin muse he was doing like a year or two

ago and he did a bunch of great episodes I think it's just the bitcoin muse calm but he stopped

doing them and I haven't heard from him in a while so I don't know I don't know what's going on

with that but yeah man it's it's it's it's uh it's really cool just seeing the space evolving

and you know I think that that we're still super early to Bitcoin art all and all even though

sometimes it doesn't feel like it maybe it being a Bitcoin artist you know our feels great

we get to patience but but we are going to I think we are in the in the right direction

the yeah this community is great I every every every year I see an improvement in the quality

of the art and the artist that come to to the live events so I'm excited to what's like in the

direction about the direction this this community is going so hopefully we get more attention we

we get more exposure we get better sales but regardless as you said I think is probably the same

the same game theory theory as Bitcoin in the long term so yeah we're here for the for the

uh uh long term yeah so so yeah we're not in a rush yeah where where where it's it's low

low time preference right low time preference yeah cool right on man well um yeah I'm gonna do

I'll do another little a little another little shout out kind of chill plug thing here and then um

let's I got a couple more questions to ask you but also if you want to just share anything I think

you said you're working on some stuff but you're not gonna say too much I don't want to say too much

because uh well I mean for several reasons but especially because um I say I'm still trying to

figure out part of the medium that I'm using so uh maybe I'm gonna save sauce the the details

for later but just uh uh it would be enough to say that I'm working with uh some vintage

designs uh really that that combined pixel art and physical media and uh and really cool gaming

themes so uh I'm I'm very excited on the way it's looking but I still need to work on how I'm

gonna present it um and that's that's as far as I want to go all right I I I appreciate the

little tidbits and I won't pry you for more although I want to um so right on all right I'm gonna

I'm gonna do a little shout out here this is the bitcoin art podcast featuring Gus Rulaska you

can find Gus's work at Gus Grulaska.com and there is a contact page there and you should go follow

him on twitter and instagram and noster as well he's gonna put his noster link on the website but for

now you can search in primal or probably dumbest just Gus Grulaska and this is January 15th and

just the beginning of the year but we're looking forward to doing many more episodes uh audio

galleries throughout this year and into the next and into forever and onwards so you can keep track

of upcoming episodes at the bitcoin art podcast at bitcoinartpodcast.com and we are presented

by bitcoin art magazine a huge shout out to all of our sponsors who have sponsored bitcoin art

magazine shout out to everybody who's purchased a magazine all of our patrons and last but not

least possibly probably definitely most importantly shout out to all of the artists featured in the

magazine thank you for trusting me to display your artwork in a elegant and classy way which is

what I tried to do and I hope I have done um we are I can certify that you achieved that goal

did did we do a good job yeah it looks great my brother has a new tutorial house

okay yeah I was just I'm excited to bring the my my just freshly arrived magazines to his office

just to take a look at at the quality of the printing and everything and I mean I'll share with

you his feedback but I'm sure like it's looking amazing so I'm really proud to show it to him

amazing please please do give me that give me his on asking for a very honest opinion and then

relay it back to me because I I need all of the constructive criticism I can get to make it

bigger and better for the next one so yeah please yeah yeah give me his honest opinion

I can take the tough uh you know the tough editor editor in chief stick so yeah

yeah cool right on yeah I'm gonna here I'm gonna actually I'll show a magazine on camera now

that we're doing these on video we can do a little sneak peeks of the magazine this is

the gold foil cover copy there are only 210 of these and we've got the title and the edition

and the artwork on the back in gold foil and then we have a standard issue magazine of which is

also limited edition it's a limited edition of 1700 and 20 and we've got the same art on the back

but it's black on black I don't know if you can see that and we'll do like a real quick little flip

through we've got over 70 pages of full page art and it's 152 pages total so it's a it's a proper

hefty magazine it's more of a journal I would I would say it's in all reality is more of a journal

or a catalog so um right on Gus man I it we're coming up on almost an hour here I think that's

right on the nose I'm down to keep chatting a little bit I also want to respect your time so

you know if you want to go or close it out you just let me know I'm good if you have any more

questions I'm good otherwise let me know and we can start wrapping it up all right how about

well let's run it another 15 30 minutes true sweet um cool right on so I guess tell me I think

I think we mentioned it in the little mic check call but I don't think we talked about it on the air

if we did let me know but do you have any conferences or events or art galleries that your work

will be showing at in the upcoming or near future that people could see your work in person

well I mean I haven't confirmed anything yet this this time around I'm I'm being a little bit

more picky because I'm at that now I'm congratulations thank you this was this my my baby just

she just made the one year mark and it takes a lot of time so I'm I'm gonna be a little bit more

more selective on the events that I attend and also because I'm as always I'm running a little

bit late on my development on my on my crafting so I'm I'm waiting for this month to try to

to progress a little bit more in this new series that I'm doing and as soon as I'm comfortable with

the result I'm gonna try to book at least a couple of events this year much likely Vegas

but I'm still not a hundred percent confirmed but much likely I would like to attend that event

because it is the the biggest one and and the one that most of my artists friends gathered around

every year so I really enjoyed hanging out with you guys and and maybe I've been looking forward to

attend the events in in Texas because being based right now here in Mexico City it seems

convenient for me to just take the car and drive to Texas so I'm gonna look forward to attend

their this year or maybe the next one as soon as I have work to show there I'm gonna try to contact

the guys and see what I can do so that that's basically the plan every year usually not every year

but usually for the most part I'm invited sometimes to events in Miami and events in New York

so if I don't if I if I don't make it to these events that I just mentioned maybe I'll go to

New York or or Miami just to just to keep showing showing my face somewhere but that's my plan

like it's not thing confirmed yet but I'm definitely try to to keep attending live events because

that's that's for me that that's one of the nicest parts of this industry of this ecosystem of

artists to to meet in in in in person in real life and to have a beer and talk you know

in in real in the real world I really enjoyed that so I'm looking forward to keep doing

awesome and the and what what will you be announcing like what events you would be at I'm I imagine

and so if someone's following you on Twitter they'll be able to you know you're gonna you know

which ones you'll make it to exactly yeah usually once I'm confirmed I start posting

awesome a few a few a few videos or hints in my social

awesome well I hope to see you at at least one event this year and get to hang out a little bit

um because that would just be great and then also I'm I'm gonna try I guess I have a

couple questions about your well I was gonna say I'm gonna try and make it down to Mexico this year

or so yeah I want to try and get some surfing in somewhere so I'll hit you up if I'm anywhere near

near the city and see what you see what you've got going on so yeah or I mean

regardless if you come through the city let let me know I mean I okay I know a lot of people

here so maybe I can help you out in in any way I super appreciate that I will let you know when

I'm coming down then all right yes awesome hey so a while or at the beginning of our conversation

you had spoken a little bit about your um your fiat job or your pre Bitcoin art job um did you

say you do mechanical engineering or chemical engineering chemical engineering okay you gotta I

didn't want to interrupt you then and I wanted to talk about your artwork but can you tell me a

little bit about chemical engineering what is chemical engineering yeah well I um when I went

out high school I was just I mean I didn't exactly I didn't know where where to to start my

professional career and that seemed like a good like a broad and interesting field which it is

like I I don't regret it was it was really hard uh to go through college because it's a tough

it's a tough career like uh they don't they don't make it easy for you to go through this through

through through chemical engineering like you you really need to put the work so I had like a

really hard time going through college but I'm super proud that I make it through uh so much so

that by the end of my my bachelor um studies uh I I fell in love with biochemistry so biochemistry is

basically the story of everything that it's alive from human beings to bacteria to whales like

everything that it's alive and all the chemistry involved is super interesting it is just like

the first time that I had a lecture on biochemistry it just blew my mind I I I thought okay this is

what I want to do for for the rest of my life and then I I I start working when I went out of college

I start working a little bit on the petrochemical industry which was super boring I hated it

uh but then I made a master's on biochemistry in Barcelona in Europe and uh and I stayed there

for 10 years I living there and I I developed a company there of recycling cellulose which is a

biopolymer and uh so I I love that field it's it's I was very very passionate about that field for

the first 15 years of my adult life uh it's just that at some point I realized that working

as a chemist you always need to in one way or another you need to work for the man

like you need to even if you work into the private sector for the pharmaceutical industry let's say

uh you just have an endless number of of bosses on top of you you'll never have autonomy sovereignty

you will be really really hard for you to to take into an independent line of research for instance

which by by they were like to be honest I did like me and a small group of of students

and and one of my professors are back in 20 it was uh 2010 we we made a spin-off

from the university and we made it we made it into a startup okay we developed our own company

recycling some cellulose uh waste some cellulose material with that biochemical process so

it was I mean we actually did our own line of research independent from from the university

independent from not independent from the government because we got a big loan from the government

in order to start and and being an entrepreneur in Europe is just suicide it doesn't make

any sense so uh just to just to get your first foot on on on on the field you need to get in so much

depth to to comply to so with so much regulation it just doesn't make any sense but we did it anyway

and and we were very proud of the project and and to my knowledge that project still is still

open running I saw my my share of the company in 2016 and but Bitcoin with all of that good good

well done it was a great it was a great move one of the decisions that I've made but yeah I realized

that I was trapped in a system that it it was very limiting for my personal growth so I was

stuck to these one place so for instance right now I live in Mexico City but I can take a plane

and go to anywhere I want at any moment I can take my car and drive to get to the United States if I

want to like my only limitation is the places that are dangerous you know like I don't want to go

but I I have the freedom to do whatever I want right now back then I was stuck to to one place to

one wage and I wanted to break away from that because I wanted to travel more I wanted to have

a little bit more freedom I wanted I wanted to come back to to Mexico but not earn make in Mexican

pesos that is like a shit coin of a shit coin so all of those factors together eventually put

me in the right direction that I'm I've been working for the for several years now and I'm

I'm not just doing art I have always been a teacher and I like to make workshops and and and give

private consultants so I nowadays I'm relatively well known in Mexico as a Bitcoiner

it's not that I'm famous or anything but at least the community knows me and I'm honest people

know I'm honest I've never been involved in any scam or any scandal like this so so I'm I think

I'm a reliable reference in my community for people to to learn more about this technology so

I I've been capitalizing that for several years now I have clients I have a student groups

sometimes in my studio I organize workshops so I've been active in that in that in that regard to

not just doing art but also working a lot in in what we could call financial engineering right it's

like yeah it's finance but it's also related to technology and and all these decentralized

protocols are popping up every day so I try to to stay updated on on what's happening in the

industry and I have clients that that pay me for for for helping them understand and navigate

these these new finance reality financially yeah that's absolutely amazing man that is um

that's just that's just a testament to Bitcoin freeing your time and freeing yourself through Bitcoin

in so many ways yeah 100% you're you're and to anybody listening who's who's not there yet um

you know you can you can make your work Bitcoin and you can be successful with it and it is very

possible and it's very possibly the best work you could do on this earth so man that's the the

chemical engineering stuff is absolutely fascinating to me though I totally hear you I can't

imagine the amount of regulations in that field of being of you know like you're saying on just

you know especially trying to do anything entrepreneurially and just the amount of money you

must need to just get through the red tape from the you know governmental organizations and the

monopolization on it of the bigger of bigger companies um I guess I won't name any but you know

some of the big biotech companies out there that just have a death grip on on so much of this stuff

all the way from you know you know genetically modified food crops to pesticides and herbicides

and um you know different kinds of polymer and production and manufacturing and everything

and all of it so it's it's it's yeah very very fascinating though it's super it's super

exciting like so so one of the the most interesting project that I was ever involved I was I

for a for a few months I work in a in a in an institute in in Austria at the at the

Polytechnic University of grads which is a very very powerful institute the the encymology

institute of research in proteins so enzymes are proteins that make that that have a catalytic

function function so basically these are proteins that make chemical reactions so they are like

some of some of these proteins are called molecular motors because they they they are like an

engine they're they're doing stuff it's it's crazy like the the world at that level the reality

at that level is just is it looks like it's out of science fiction book and and and the research that

this institute uh so one of the things that always blew my mind is the general public is so

unaware of how advanced the the chemical sciences are because it's it's impossible to to access

that knowledge without having that prerequisite of of studying the basics yeah like just the way

of any regular chemical test works it had so much brain power put on it like so many people

for generations have thought in this so ingenious methods physical chemical methods of of just

assessing the purity of a substance of how how to to know if if if a reaction is is going

the proper way is being efficient or is not being efficient like the amount of work and human

genius that that they need they have invested in these practices it's it's amazing right so you

go one of these institutes like Austria which I I'm I'm very proud of being able to work there for

a short time because it was super a super competent team of of researchers and and they just make

a lot of molecular engineering like genetic engineering to modify bacteria in order to to make

their reactions more efficient and then in that way you can you can just like make all the processes

fermentation in general like the best example is beer right a beer is just like fermenting a crop

and we've been doing that we have been doing it for for thousands of years but now with with

genetic engineer you can understand it better and maybe you can enhance it but not in a bad way

you know because like it's so corrupted some of these institutes are so corrupted that we

immediately think about genetic engineering as something apocalyptic which could be but yeah but

at the same time the sign behind it is it's incredibly powerful and and it can be used for good

so the problem is that most of the research is captured by the big farmer and they are the ones

with the money so they are the ones setting guidelines into where most of the research is is going

so it's it's very interesting it's that world is it's just is mind blowing yeah but at the same time

is dark so so it's a it's a hard combination yeah man wow no it's I have I have more questions some

some time when we hang out and have have a beer or something together I'm gonna have to ask you

some more questions about it but no that's it's just it's fascinating to me I love I love asking

people about stuff that they've studied or that they do or were that they do or that they have

they have done and uh yeah I um I never really went to very much school so I'm not the most um like the

depth in the level of which I can imagine you studied you know this stuff and other people are

studying it is it's just really impressive to me and and fascinating because I have the kind of

brain that I feel like I could have studied something like that if I had wanted to or if I had of

sometimes I wonder if maybe I should have but uh well that that but I don't I don't know all the

knowledge all the bits and so like when you talk about stuff like that I just I think of like the

level of of some of the people out there including yourself of like understanding like the processes

and all of the little details and parts and pieces that like put these different extremely

complex things together and that are that are you know like what are the just the you know and then

as far as you know biochemistry like the building blocks of like existence and like life itself

in so many different ways um and how it works together you know so well that that's the thing like

with this this is this is one of those fields that uh the gatekeepers are really strong

because all the knowledge is out there like we have the internet now so you can you can

learn as much as any college student with uh with I don't know with with an internet connection

and way more the problem is that in order to get into one of one of these labs you need the right

credentials and this is the bottleneck which prevents humanity from thriving because so I'll

give you a parallel example um I was involved in the industry of cosmetics of doing like body

lotion which is super simple to do I don't know if if you're familiar but in order to to to do like

an emotion like like mayonnaise or stuff like that like it is not that hard like if you want to

do body moisturizer you just need water and oil and you need to and those don't don't

mix naturally so you need something to make them mix and that's it and then you can you can create

your recipes and your formulas and not perfumes and anything you want and that's a huge industry

and I know people that are world experts on this that never went to college and they just

been experimenting with different substances with different natural oils with different

fragrances for they they have been experimenting with with with these for so many years

and they know way more than any of us like like I'm a I'm a trained chemist but I have never done

this this type of of recipes for years and years like like they do so but the fact that this is a

harmless or at least not so regulated industry in some countries like here for instance I know

that in the US and Europe everything is super regulated but but let's say in Mexico you can

you can get away a little bit more without complying with with regulators so you can you can do a

lot of stuff just by experimenting in your kitchen and you you will gain way more knowledge that

the vast majority of professionals just by researching the internet and doing your your experiments

whereas if you want to do a little bit of genetic engineering that was going to be really

complicated right yeah that you cannot understand it or or like that the knowledge is out there

is just that the gatekeepers of the industry are very strong you need the you need that that

university key card to the multi-billion dollar lack of exactly exactly and the only way they

give it to you is if you come and do their program yeah which is I feel like it's a good thing

and a bad thing a good thing because it stops you know I guess crazy people from experimenting

but a bad thing because somehow the sometimes it seems like the crazy people experimenting are the

ones who have the who are the gatekeepers and I'm going through the through this institution

sometimes it just sanitizes the research and they kill the creativity also so it's a little bit of

favorite yeah yeah oh that's it's a fascinating man right on well I'm happy that you

I'm happy that you I guess got it got out and got to where you are now and and have more freedom

in your life now yeah I you know kind of what you you know you're you're you're journey there

the bit a little bit that you've shared I'm gonna if it's okay with you read the the first page of

bitcoin art magazine the inside covers as a little short piece written by madex and it says

21 million there will be a future there is a fire that is your soul and all the forces of fiat

exist to extinguish it fiat once you subdued compliant exhausted but if you're holding this magazine

or if you're holding bitcoin you've either escaped or you're about to so thanks Satoshi not only

for bitcoin but for what it unlocks in you it will fund your dreams fuel your calling and free

your time in honor of our ancestors and the builders before us we forge a new world anchored in

truth built on bitcoin but your your your story just made me think of that as far as freeing your time

and how perfectly and beautifully amidst all of this darkness and and just suffering at times the

world seems to be pervaded with bitcoin really can free your time and let you you know spend it

doing things in ways that you know or maybe more enjoyable so you're thanks thank you man for

sharing some of your story I am yeah like I said I've got more questions from you but maybe let's

let's wrap this one up and let's just hang out in person sometime or let's just do another episode so

yeah man thank you very much for giving me the time and the chance of putting my work out there

in the magazine and and keep being part of this community because I'm really proud and I'm

very bullish of of the of the future of bitcoin and and bitcoin art so thank you for the work

that you're doing for all of us and I'm really happy to to collaborate with this kind of

podcast and an interview so anytime please let me know and definitely we're going to have that

beer next time and talk a little bit more about all the interesting stuff that we've been doing

amazing I love to hear it and yeah let me know if I'll send you the link and let's just schedule

another episode whenever you want and then also if you have any ideas for collaborative stuff with

you know on the podcast or with the magazine or anything you know just shoot me a DM so I am

maybe we could do some maybe we could do like a print your coordinated print drop or something

sometime yeah I'm gonna give ideas you know I'm gonna check out the lithographies that I have left

so we can make maybe that like like a special like yeah like a special edition for the magazine or

something that that would be amazing yeah let's let's DM about that and see what we can cook up

all right brother awesome right on I'll do a little a little outro and then I'll call it so

this is Gus Gralaska this is also Noah with with Gus Gralaska this is the bitcoin art podcast

presented by bitcoin art magazine and today we featured Gus Gralaska one of our Genesis edition

artists if you have not checked out his art or his website please do so go to Gus Gralaska.com and

make sure you're following him on x an Instagram and Noster and make sure you're following the bitcoin

art magazine we are on x at bitcoin art mag and we are on Noster you can go to primal.net slash

bitcoin art mag we also have a really awesome telegram group with over 500 members and the link

to our telegram group is in the bio of both our Twitter and Noster and I think you can also just go

to t.me slash bitcoin art mag or it might be t.me slash bitcoin art magazine but if you spend time

on telegram join our telegram group like I said we have over 500 members and huge shout out to

everybody who's been supporting this project I literally couldn't do it without you and thank you

thank you to all of the artists out there and all of the bitcoiners out there doing the good work

and pushing this whole ship forward so thank you all and thank you guys for spending the time

with me here today thanks esanola and thank you everyone thank you everyone for listening for

your time and your attention so see you next time awesome have a great day everybody