About this episode
Get every episode summarized
Each time dc publishes, we email you a written briefing from the transcript — the topics, who appeared, and any specific claims, with the ad reads skipped.
Email me new episodesFree for 3 shows. No card needed.
Hosts & guests
Transcript ready
266 searchable segments. Every word is indexed and playable.
Full transcript
dc — Houthis seize Yemen Red Sea port city. Machine-transcribed; use the interactive transcript above to jump the player to any line.
Hello there, you're welcome to news hour from the BBC World Service coming to life from the BBC Studios in Central London with me Sean Lay. And we begin this news hour in Yemen. The sounds of missiles being fired on the port city of Mocha where the Iranian-backed Houthis have just taken control. The owners of freighters struggling to pass through the state of Humurs because of the on-off on-again fighting between Iran and the United States have increasingly looked to alternative routes for their goods to travel through the Gulf. On Thursday one of those other options became much more difficult. Mocha in Yemen, which had been in government hands, fell to the Houthi who dominate much of the north of the country. This woman lives in the city. We used to live in safety and stability but now the Houthis have entered our city. We are devastated and our children have been left homeless.
We have nothing to eat and nowhere to go. The roads are blocked in front of us and we don't know how we're supposed to manage. We used to live in peace and security. Now the Houthis have come and shattered all of that. Another resident shared her fears. The takeover came without warning. Panic spread throughout the area, forcing people to flee amid the stressing scenes of injured people lying in the streets with no one there to help them. The struggle for control of Yemen stretches back more than a decade. The Houthi sees Sanaa, the capital in 2014. What followed was an eight-year war with Saudi Arabia which intervened in support of the Yemeni government. A truce was eventually agreed in 2022. But peace never followed. The Houthis romantically escalated the conflict this week with attacks on Saudi Arabian oil facilities to its re-ad retaliated. Mocha is some way to the north of Babel Mandep, a major global choke point between Yemen, on the Arabian Peninsula and Djibouti and Eritrea in the Horn of Africa.
Ships can use it to cross from the Red Sea to the Gulf of Aden and the Indian Ocean beyond. It's that to which the Houthi are now reportedly turning their attention. Earlier I spoke to Nal al-Makafi, the BBC senior international investigations correspondent. She is Yemeni herself and has covered the country extensively. I asked her why the conflict had escalated so suddenly. I think really the immediate trigger is the wider regional war that we've been seeing. That's why there's been a collapse of this relative calm in Yemen that has been since the 2022 truce. In the last year, the Houthis have increasingly tied their military campaign to the confrontation involving Iran, the US and Saudi Arabia. They've really involved themselves in this global war. We saw that in July they declared what they described as a naval blockade on Saudi shipping. In the last couple of weeks, they've really stepped up missile and drone attacks on Saudi Arabia as well as a ground defensive along this coast that we're talking about.
It's really clear that their apparent objective is to put pressure on Saudi Arabia and to push further towards Babel Mendeb and to help Iran to give it great leverage at a time where it's in complete control of the state of Hamuz. So that makes Babel Mendeb incredibly important. If Iran's in control of the state of Hamuz and its friends are in control of Babel Mendeb, it gives it great leverage in that negotiating table with the United States. It's not about Yemen and the conflict in Yemen anymore. It's become a part of a much wider regional confrontation. And potentially, therefore, that makes it much more dangerous? Exactly. It means that it's no longer about trying to mediate between the different warring factions in Yemen, that the Houthis have bigger ambitions and maybe more support.
So, yeah, I think it does make it a lot more dangerous. Just one thing we should just be clear about is the extent of the Houthis control in Yemen. Do they have effective control of the country or are they still a regional force within Yemen? The Houthis are in control of the most populated parts of Yemen. They're in control of the capital, Sannar, most of the north and the northwest, and also the Hadeh-a-Provence, which is along the Red Sea coast. What's changed now is that they're pushing much further south into territory that has been held for a very long time by the Yemeni government. Military sources are saying that they've taken over Al-Mahra and they are advancing further south. Right now, the government forces are finding places to reposition towards the Bab, which is, you know, it's directly on the straight. And I think to make it simpler for our audiences, you know, the Houthis have long control the north and most of that Red Sea coast, but what's significant today is that they're pushing into territory that's much closer to Bab el-Mandab itself and could mean that they could have complete control of it in the next few days.
The Yemeni government council issued a plea on Thursday. It said the protection of Yemen's coasts and the restoration of state control over its territory, ports and waters is a joint Yemeni Egyptian Arab and international interest. Is anybody listening to that? Is anybody going to come to their aid? It's a very important point because for the last couple of days, I've been speaking to, you know, some of the commanders that are fighting on that front line in Bab el-Mandab. And I think, you know, historically in the last couple of years, Darqsala, who is the main commander in charge of that front line, has been supported and supplied weapons by the United Arab Emirates. But in the last year or so, the UAE pulled its forces and pulled its support from Yemen. And that has been, you know, a huge blow to Darqsala, who is now trying to get that same support from the Saudi coalition. And when I've been speaking to these contacts, they've been saying, you know, we're not being given the kind of support that we need to maintain this front line and to, you know, undertake a major offensive against the Houthis.
In what is a critical time for Yemen and for the region as a whole. And so it seems like there are statements being made by the government, but there's a huge question as to how much support the fighters on the ground were getting to kind of push the Houthis on that front line. What would a continuation of war mean for ordinary Yemenis? How difficult has it been for them in recent years? You see that you said there's been a period of relative calm since the 2022 truth, but presumably not a great improvement in living standards or in security. No, you know, the humanitarian situation has been deteriorating over the last couple of years. Of course, you know, when the fighting is on a pause or when the situation is calm, it means that aid agencies can do more work, especially in southern Yemen, in areas that are controlled by the government. The Houthis and areas they control have made it incredibly difficult for NGOs to do their work. But at least, you know, life keeps going. At least people don't have to fear the strikes that are coming down from the air.
But if this kind of erupts into all that war, the kind that we saw in 2016 and 2017, it will be catastrophic for the ordinary Yemeni on the ground. Because not only are they, you know, struggling to make ends meet, struggling to work to feed their families, but they also have to be protecting their families from the strikes coming down from the air. That's the BBC Senior International Investigations Correspondence, now will amigabhi. Well, Adam Barron is a Yemen-focused fellow at New America Research Organization in Washington, given the exchanges between Saudi forces this week and the Houthi in Western Yemen in support in the Saudi case of the pro-government forces. I asked him why Saudi Arabia had become actively involved. I mean, I think there's two elements. One, both which are rooted in geography. One, you know, Yemen is Saudi Arabia's southern neighbor. And as more than one official from the region is told me, you can't use your neighbors.
So there's that sense that Yemen, as far as many people in the region, particularly in Riyadh are concerned, instability in Yemen has the risk of leading to instability in Saudi Arabia to some extent. And I would say, you know, the events of the past got years, but also we exterminate this. That Yemen's national security in Saudi Arabia is national security are broadly linked. On the second level, I work, you know, the trade routes are extremely significant. Babel Mendeb is where a significant amount of trade passes, a significant amount of oil passes. And, you know, Yemen's Red Sea coast, the oil that's passing through Yemen's Red Sea coast has become even more important as, you know, on the other side of the Arabian Peninsula. The streets of Formals have been blocked since the start of the US and Israeli war with Iran. Saudi Arabia has been diversifying, hasn't it? I mean, it's reportedly been using an Egyptian pipeline to transit oil to the Mediterranean. Is it now having to think more seriously about alternatives given the security situation, given the deteriorating situation and the rapid advance, the Houthis appear to be making this week?
I would say it's, you know, it's too soon to tell how whether this is going to be a new permanent situation. Obviously, there's the potential of pushback, et cetera. But at the same time, even if the Houthis are eventually pushed back or stopped where they are now, it does attest to the broader instability of these areas. At this point, you have the two key maritime choke points on either side of the Arabian Peninsula, you know, straight of Formals being blocked by the Iranians. And now, Babylon and Abbas are even increasing risk of being blocked further by the Houthis, you know, in Iran, aligned, aligned armed group. So, yes, I would imagine, you know, not just the Saudi, there's a lot of people in the region who are looking at how to potentially diversify. All that question then, is there time for Saudi Arabia to intervene effectively to stop the Houthi reaching Babylon and Abbas? I mean, that's the million dollar question, right? A lot of the Yemenis I've been speaking to over the past few hours, days, have been speaking, you know, frustrated, expecting the Saudis to intervene.
That being said, the Houthis stated reason for the attacks they launched on southern Saudi Arabia a few days ago was due to the Saudi intervention. You know, and in the Saudis are providing support to Yemeni forces, but clearly it hasn't been enough to turn the tide yet. I think there is a potential that you could see some sort of movements in that direction. But in some sense, you have to wonder, wonder how much time has passed. That being said, obviously not just for the Saudis, you had extremely strong, I would say, unprecedentedly strong statements coming from both the German and British foreign ministry is condemning the Houthi takeover of Mokha. So, I think this is something that a lot of countries, a lot of key powers are really looking at with a great degree of anxiety. Is it possible that the Houthis simply have a price that they are finding governing even their part of Yemen difficult, they don't have the resources, they don't have access to any of the money from the sale of Yemeni oil, that they really just want to cut a deal.
And this is a way of getting people back to the negotiating table. I would frame it as a means of increasing their leverage, getting more of bubble, getting more of the Red Sea coast increasing bubble, and gives the Houthis a greater degree of exercising leverage, yes, in order to get control of the oil revenue in order to get potential, the lifting of restrictions on airports and ports. That's Adam Barron from the research organization in New America, speaking to NewsR from Beirut. Coming up, a new book explodes some of the myths surrounding the so-called wellness industry. I interviewed one of the scientists who had run some of the huge trials, giving Vitamin D supplements to large populations to see if it would benefit their health, and large populations with low levels of Vitamin D. He spent 20 years doing this, and when I interviewed him, he was really heartbroken, and he said, you know what, we've reached the end of the road, the jury is in, Vitamin D does not do all these different things.
More on that interview in a half an hour's time, Armean headlines fears about inflation on both sides of the Atlantic, forced the European Central Bank to raise rates and increase the likelihood the US Federal Reserve will do likewise. On the Secretary-General of the ruling Fatter Party in the Palestinian Interior, he says legislative elections scheduled for November will not now take place. There's been no vote for 20 years. I'm Sean Lane, you're listening to NewsR. The death of one of Uganda's traditional kings last month has had an unexpected coda. His mother says she and other members of the royal family are being held in the palace against their will. King Oyo, who's ascended the throne of the Turo King that when he was three and reigned for 31 years, died while being treated for cancer in the United States. He left behind him, and right-rolls snarl up over who should succeed. Just yesterday a selection committee declared for Prince Edward, Rikidi, Kiji and Angoma, a local news presenter, but that decision was denounced by the late King Oyo's sister, who said evil vultures were conspiring against her and the Queen mother.
I just want to tell you as my brother, my brother's sister, that information isn't incorrect, because my brother never left those instructions at all. So we just want to refute all that information, and it is very unfortunate that we have not even buried my brother yet, and they bring all this confusion and all this turmoil. We can't even mourn my brother in peace. That's Princess Ruth Comontale, while Canary Magumi is a journalist in New Zankut, NBS television in Uganda, and I asked him how leaders are traditionally chosen in the Turo Kingdom. Turo Kingdom tradition of choosing kings is really hereditary, and most times at least for the last number of I think more than 40 years or 50, we've seen kings live behind wheels on whose should succeed them, and also take over the throne. Most times, so he's been there sons or their cousins or their nephews, so it's always someone related to them. But most times, first choice is their son.
Right, and now in this case, the late King sister is saying that he did leave a will, and he had a son, but it's a son nobody seems to know anything about. Absolutely, no one seems to know anything about the son, not even a picture has surfaced. We don't know how old the son is, we don't know how he looks like, no one has actually had a glimpse of the son, and I think that's what is causing controversy. So that is also becoming a big problem, because if the son indeed was in was was around us, people had seen him, maybe the tension would have been lesser. Right, it's clear you're an embarrassing situation for the royal family. Is it also potentially unnerving for the government? I know that the different royal families and the different clans don't have any political power in Uganda, presumably they still have some influence. Well, government indeed still has influence because at the end of the day, the kingdom does not exist in the vacuum, it exists in a country, which is a republic of Uganda.
So at the end of the day, the meditations will be carried out, but at the end of the day, as much as they want to follow the will, the will, which is of course under the will's act, which is in the constitution, they still have to follow the law of the republic. And government has also sent in a representative from one of the ministries where the culture institutions do fall, which is the Ministry of Gender, Labor and Social Development, to be able to witness what is going on and report back. But at the end of the day, according to now what government is saying, they need, they're waiting on to a response from the president. Meanwhile, the old king can't be buried until there's a new king. That's a bit awkward, isn't it? Yes, and that king is going to be buried on Saturday. So that means they have tonight and tomorrow, we're able to find a new king and that king has before and before the burial. Canary Magume on the crisis of the succession of King Oyo. September is a very busy month for cinema. The Toronto Film Festival is getting underway Thursday evening. The Venice Film Festival has just ended.
And then there's Telluride, held in America's Rocky Mountains. A new one on new? Well, it's been a haven for film buffs for more than 50 years. The BBC's Tom Brook has returned from attending this showcase for new movies, which has a pretty impressive track record in premiering films which go on to achieve Oscar success. Tom, over to you. In the beautiful elevated surroundings of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado, the four day long Telluride Film Festival routinely spotlights significant new cinema and brings top names in filmmaking into a very relaxed atmosphere. And movie fans travel from far and wide for a festival that's seriously committed to cinema. It's so late back, there's no paparazzi, there's no awards. It's just about the art of film. The approachability and the proximity of some of the stars. The landscape, also the program is great every single year. Several films got people talking in Telluride among them ink directed by Danny Boyle. It's the story of Rupert Murdoff's impact on tabloid journalism in late 1960s Britain.
We want our readers to feel alive when they wait for their paper in the morning. In 2008, Telluride launched Danny Boyle's slumdog millionaire. It then went on to win eight Oscars. He were here with slumdog, how did you feel to be back again? It's such a privilege to be in Telluride. It's something you never take advantage of, it's amazing, we're very lucky. To be back is a very, very different film obviously, but I hope it's as interesting to people as whoops out with slumdog, yeah. Hello, part of you're right. For me, the Telluride Film, with the best performances, came in the world premiere of Tender Loving Care. What it said to be the final film of veterans celebrated UK filmmaker, Mike Lee. So, as you love life, it's the story of a family and those near orbit and how they deal with the vagaries of life. 83 year old Mike Lee couldn't be in Telluride, but he sent the opening night audience a video message. We made it with Telluride Audience. And the Telluride Audience were prompted to let Mike Lee know just how much they appreciated him.
It's time to be here. Act to Marion Bailey, who plays the character of Birdie in Tender Loving Care, was there and she introduced the film. I think it's about love. I think it's about all kinds of love between family, friends and the wider community and society. It's about people looking after each other. Come on, Harold! The late Scottish actor Ian Chanson, who starred in Charitz of Fire in 1981, was the subject of the film Elsonore, launched at Telluride. At the Andrew Scott's very moving portrayal of Chanson in 1989, as a man determined to prevail playing Hamlet on stage despite suffering from AIDS, was the talk of the festival and fueled Oscar speculation. But it's not just well-raught feature films that are populating festival season this year. The harsh realities of the outside world are also being brought to audiences with a number of powerful documentaries.
Here in Telluride, I saw a film called Rehersals for Revolution. It's a remarkable insight into Iran and what's been taking place in that country over the last four decades. The material was edited together by Arash Ashtiani, who thinks the film provides a portrait of Iran quite different from that found in traditional news journalism. It goes beyond the news. It goes to the life of the people, to their dreams. We have to keep the hope in the worst situation. And that's the best recipe for now, because I think it's not a very good situation back in Iran. I don't have anything to deceive you on, of course I'm not deceiving you. But the documentary that became a real Telluride event was a surprise screening of you can see everything in which Elizabeth Holmes, the now imprisoned founder of a medical testing company convicted of fraud, gave filmmakers extraordinary access before going to jail. Okay. Festival goers were captivated by the documentary's intense unsettling interview sequences.
Okay, good chat. As the festival wound down, the consensus was that Telluride once again did what it nearly always does, deliver some compelling cinema, and identify films and performances that will go on to get recognition just as a ward season is gathering momentum. Tom Brooks at Telluride Film Festival. Welcome back to News Hour. Let's head to the Philippines now where fire broke out on board a ferry heading from Manila, the capital, to Quran, a destination popular with tourists on Thursday. What you can hear there are the voices of the Coast Guard rescuers as they approach the burning ship, which is engulfed in flames in the darkness about 100 meters ahead of them.
At least five people have died and 86 are still missing as the rescue operation was continuing. Well, Karen Lemmer, pure chief of the Royces News Agency in Manila, spoke to NewsHouse James Menendez about those rescue efforts. It's been paused for tonight. I was just on the phone a while ago with the Philippine Coast Guard just checked the status of the search and rescue operation. So they're temporarily stopping the rescue, but at the sign of the first daylight tomorrow, they're going to resume the search and hopefully they'd be able to enter the vessel where they fear that some people are still trapped. They told us that it's been very difficult to conduct a search given that the vessel has been charged. It's very hot. If you've seen some of the images, you can see thick smoke billowing from the vessel inside. But as they were saying that hopefully they could get a window and hopefully enter the vessel tomorrow morning.
The weather is pretty bad as well, isn't it? Exactly. So it's not helping as well. Especially last night when they started when they got the report about the fire. We can see also from video and even the Coast Guard officials saying the rescuers, the waters are very, it's not helpful. The waves are quite strong, but today they said that waters have moderated a bit and the recent images that we've seen, at least midday today, we've seen a bit of calming of the waters, but I think there's a bit of rain if I'm not mistaken. So that's really hampering rescue efforts. Yeah, I'm just looking at one of the pictures of the boat now. It looks like it's almost being completely destroyed by the fire. Exactly. Is there any information about how it started? What caused it? Yeah, in fact, that's one of the questions we've been asking disaster officials, but as of tonight, no answers have been given. They promised that they're going to knock a comprehensive investigation, but one thing they noted during the press conference is afternoon is that the vessel actually passed safety assessments fast, pre departure assessments.
We're supposed to have enough life vests as well. So in that area, that's so far the answer that was given, but I'm sure there's plenty of questions being asked, especially by the families of those victims and hopefully we'll get more clarity and piece together, which actually happened in the very. Karen Lemma, Reuters Bureau Chief of Manila, talking to the BBC's James Menendez, just to say it's about an hour until sunrise in the Philippines, when as we say we expect that operation for recovery and detached defences of Ivers to resume. This is the news hour. I'm Sean Lay in London and on this half of the program, we're going to be talking about the situation in the United States facing President Trump, Mr. Trump's announcement on the first night of the Republican midterm convention.
The delivery adult US citizen would receive $5,000 if his Republican party wins both houses in November's congressional elections is still making headlines on Thursday. He's been accused of trying to bribe American voters with their own money, assuming that is it's the taxpayer who'll pick up the tab. This convention is a thirst or reflection of a belief among party leaders that playing Trump is playing the Trump card in any election, even though he's not on the ballot papers in November. So he's headlining the event again on Thursday evening. News hour caught up with Steve Bannon, who was the Trump campaign manager when he won his first presidential election and subsequently served as White House Chief Strategist. I asked Steve Bannon first about one of the day's events, the commemoration marking the first anniversary of the killing of Charlie Kirk, whose organization, Turning Point USA, was key in helping Donald Trump win over young voters. What is Steve Bannon missed this last year about Charlie Kirk?
He's more than a friend. He was a colleague. I gave him his first job when I ran Breitbart and then later we picked his show up his podcast on our channel or never fact he followed me for five years every day on TV. So I don't call it a murder. It was assassination. The country is very divided right now and is very divided on some fundamental issues. I would say half the nation is commemorating the memory of Charlie Kirk as a murder and a to our cause and a saint, a secular saint. Half the nation is marking and ridiculing this, including Hassan's piker who's got a song out that kind of, you know, mocks the memory and the death of Charlie Kirk. Let's talk about what his loss meant for the movement because in a sense it's it's an important time to have somebody like Charlie Kirk with the perspective of the passage of a year. How big a loss do you think he has been for the movement? Town like this comes along once in a generation and you just can't replace it. So the reality is it kind of we are where we are now. I will say some of his messages trying to be modeled you know Charlie was very adamantly opposed to a regime change conflict with Iran and for America's involvement. I know that because I went back to the White House a couple of days before the bombing that ended the 12-day war and really worked in coordinate with Charlie about making sure voices were heard.
The talk to President Trump and put the facts in front of President Trump that showed that you know it would be a very big misstep for America to get involved in Israel's regime change war. But you can never replace an individual like Charlie Kirk. I want to come to the war if I may, but just before that and he was a he was a motivator as well as an organizer, particularly young men to support the president. There's quite a lot of polling suggesting that young men have to some extent sourdont Donald Trump in the last year or so. Last month some 32% of men aged 18 to 29 approved of the president's performance down from 43% in February 2025. I think in the election you ought 46% a male voters in that age group. Should the White has to be worried by that? Listen, if you get back to Trump basic populist nationalist policies will be fine. When you get off populist nationalist policies you should be concerned. And part of that is the forever war and now the president's goal objective of making sure the Persians can't get a nuclear weapon. I think people support.
But most people believe the president that that was taking care of in the end of the 12-day war. So there's been a lot of consternation not just among young people, but that you know it's across the board. It's a big issue with Magover all. Yeah. That being said with the young people it's actually I think the immigration policies the nomass deportations. I mean we have a lot of work to do. The inflation numbers out. So if we go back and stick to populist nationalist policies will be fine. The president made quite an eye catching announcement. Everyone's talking about it today really any speech on Wednesday that pledge to pay every American $5,000 if the Republicans win the midterm. Should we believe it? With $40 trillion in debt and $2 trillion deficits every year I strongly believe that if there's excess of tariff money that that should go back to pay down the debt and you know you're going to talk about $5,000 cash payments which are just never going to happen. Right. I mean because the doge payments have happened did they and the tariff payments we were told would happen didn't I mean just wonder if that's just part of the theater.
Part of the circus that exists around all Trump. Part of that keeps it something that's not a certain lesson. He's a unique in American history as far as a political figure because he didn't come up through politics. You can see with the convention I can tell one thing to the to the haters of which I include BBC of the mega movement the vibe and the energy coming out of this convention is going to be quite extraordinary. We are going to have we have a very tough path ahead of us but it's going to come down to about 20 seats in the house is going to come down to a handful of seats in the Senate and a couple of governorship. We are strongly believe right now that we will hold the house by our cedar to as I see it. Oh yes, it's going to be very tough. Don't give me a but this is this election and I'm so glad the president we have advocated for the beginning for president Trump to take charge here and put himself on the ballot. The reason is the Democrats in the DSA have very smartly and they are running a very smart campaign. They've nationalized this election around Donald Trump well if they're going to do it the advisors around president Trump continue to have this like it's a persuasion election this is not a persuasion election this is all about turn out fine but as he left it too late.
No because it's a handful of it's like 20 to 25 house seats of those over half he won overwhelmingly in 24 so you have to win about half of those seats to hold the house and I'm saying hold the house by one or two. One or two seats and in holding the house remember you're not going to have a massive legislative program I'm talking about just hanging on so that the house does not turn into an impeachment machine but that's what I was going to ask you because that's the risk isn't it if you don't succeed in the way you hope and at the moment the polls just and of course they are only polls they're not votes but they suggest a similar outcome to 2018 I mean that would be a pretty miserable last couple of years. Sean if they win by even a seat or two the White House will become Fort Apache it'll be an onslaught every day from every different direction they're going to come after the White House the administration and the Maga movement they'll be open political warfare if the Democrats take the house and like it says the White House will be Fort Apache.
Right and you've made that point very clearly I want to ask you about the war within the context of the foreign policy challenges America faces you've been very clear you're opposed to this war continuing how do you think it's going to end I mean we heard the presence say yesterday oh lend us as the midterm elections are over really. I have adamantly opposed this war from the beginning the good news I think is that we've now turned to economic warfare which we should done in the first place we're going to enforce secondary sanctions Scott best to go destroy their country anyway trades with Iran. Yes and by by the way banks to deal with them and not just in England but but in Europe China is the big one and she's coming at the end of September this is all about China's support of it so Scott best since the safe pair of hands. He's in charge of the economic warfare I think the kinetic part I hope is behind us I'm an advocate of America first and hemispheric defense you know we've got enough from the Arctic to Latin America in the western Pacific to deal with it's time the Middle East has been a side show in the Israel greater Israel project is a side show to a side show I'm a strong advocate that we just you know
We're hands of the whole mess and focus on those areas we need to think Donald Trump is prepared to do that because in a sense his pride is now on the line isn't it I think President Trump is a realist a very practical person look he's been trying to get to peace in Ukraine he's been trying to get to peace with the peace board in Gaza he wants some sort of accommodation with the with the Persian regime he says this over and over again you know President Trump some man of peace and so I hope well he wants to peace prize doesn't it's not a good thing to do that. Once the peace prize doesn't he's been quite honest about that well I happen to believe a big advocate that he sure got it on Wednesdays news hour I spoke to Jeffrey Hinton man often described to the Godfather of AI he's really concerned about some of the developments in artificial intelligence right now I know you are too one of the things he said to me though was maybe the United States and China could work together on this to try to control this new technology to ensure that it isn't a threat to the future of humanity what do you think? I would love to have the thought that we could have some sort of Geneva convention something about AI it's impossible all these tech oligarchs that are trying to put up data centers in the United States these oligarchs in the venture capital firms they work with are the ones that have built the Chinese ecosystem for AI they are bald face liars you cannot reach an accommodation to my point of view with the Chinese America has to stop selling advantage chips and we have to take all the Chinese students out of American universities many of these people are in a simple way.
But it doesn't matter. It's a lot of the other front you. Every Chinese person is not not at all not at all the Chinese that we feel the chat look Hinton's smart he's saying hey can you reach a rep can you reach an agreement like a Geneva agreement with the Chinese Communist Party they've never fulfilled any agreement they've ever signed as we've seen over the last couple of days who should control the AI. So you can control it. Right now we have to have some guardrails I have a bit of strong because you're you're belief in freedom. Well listen you we had freedom in this country in the 1950s and 1960s and we had an atomic energy commission that was created after the atomic in hydrogen bomb to have some modicum of regulations remember every major industry in the United States has some modicum of government regulation. And I'm a deconstruct the administrative state guy but I'm not an anarchist oligarchs hate me more than anybody because I'm arguing this from the right that we need to have some rational guardrails to this we can't let these these acceleration us are the worst people on earth why will we possibly allow them to set their own rules and regulation which are no rules and regulations.
Can I take you back finally to the economy when you look at the economy 41% of Americans saying they are concerned or very concerned about buying groceries they've endured the highest inflation since April 2023 was in May of this year 4.2% the trend is downwards is going down but people aren't feeling it has the white has got the tone right or does it appear to Americans right now to be tone deaf on this issue. The inflation numbers this morning were not particularly great and I think there has to be a big focus on this this is driven mainly by government spending and we are on unsustainable pay 40 trillion to trade to train a year is unsustainable it's coming up in the 10 year treasury people's lives are getting more expensive because the credit card their student loans their house loans on the 10 year treasury gets close to 5% you've got a problem and isn't that ultimately the most damning criticism of the current administration 40 trillion of debt not just down to the Trump administration by any means successive administrations but for all the promises that were made during the doge period at the beginning of this second term the president has become distracted he's more interested in foreign policy he's much more interested in you know trial for large isn't naming buildings after
the new bullroom in the white house and his legacy and his identity then he is about the day to day pressures that the American people at all kinds of levels I could I could I could not disagree with you more let me tell you why president Trump has been not only focused on particularly and let's forget those because you know I think Elon Musk is a dangerous clown what we have in the United States because of Congress remember our Constitution is Congress particularly the house that the Democrats can stop any type of spending cuts and this is what we have we have not cut federal spending we have about five and a half trillion dollars we take in of all sources and cash we put out of we spend about seven and a half trillion dollars that two trillion dollars that seven and a half trillion has not come down a penny Steve Bannon in Dallas I'm sure laying your listening to news how drug stores and pharmacies contain not just medicines but the tools of the global wellness industry
supplements promising all sorts of benefits often at considerable cost better sleep less in digestion reducing the symptoms of menopause add to that the proliferation of services private blood tests tailored nutritional programs wearable fitness monitors I could go on it's the subject of a new book by one of the UK's best known broadcasting doctors doctors and van Tulligan a public health professional an academic who makes award-winning medical programs for children as well as a popular podcast along with his brother when use as James Melendez spoke to doctors and he asked him what wellness means to him wellness does have a really buzz word he slightly obnoxious quality in many ways but that is because of the kind of wellness industrial complex that's selling us lots of dodgy stuff but the core idea of wellness I'm really in favor of so one of the big distinctions I was trying to make was between health care which is a highly regulated industry that uses evidence-based practices to try and chase down very measurable things whether it's your cholesterol your blood pressure whether or not you have a cancer or an illness that's the practice of health care and it's very regulated and then wellness is everything about your body your experience of being you how you feel whether you have a glow whether your skin and body feels good I think that's really important so that's what I was trying to do right in the book was chased down who to trust and what the solutions are and did you set
out to do this because you feared that people were being sold a tap when it comes to some of these supplements or did you have an open mind when you began I'm 48 I've got small children at my knees hurt I'm as tired as everyone else I have the brain fog you know I'd had some major health problems in my 40s so I was really focused on health and wellness and I was finding the wellness industry very seductive so that was what drew me in and I knew it couldn't all work because it's you know one person was say fibers important and the other person was saying no no you need to worry about glucose or magnesium so I knew it was contradictory but I believed surely they couldn't all be making it up and some of it must work it felt very persuasive you cover a lot of ground in the book and we can't talk about all the sort of supplements that there are out there but let's deal with some of some of the main ones and some of the ones that I found particularly striking we're going to talk about vitamin D because you devote a whole chapter to that and it's definitely something that people people think about I know lots of people who take it particularly in a country in the in the northern hemisphere but people worry about not getting enough light and so on in the winter should we be taking it is it worth it
vitamin D is a helpful place to begin asking about supplements because it is it is the one where the doctors and scientists were not skeptical there are lots of grumpy doctors talking about the wellness industry but this is a place where everyone was like it should work we want it to work and I interviewed one of the scientists who had run some of the huge trials giving vitamin D supplements to large populations to see if it would benefit their health and large populations with low levels of vitamin D he spent 20 years doing this and when I interviewed him he was really heartbroken and he said you know what we've reached the end of the road the jury is in vitamin D does not do all these different things this is not a grouchy doctor but we have spent a billion dollars trialing vitamin D over the last couple of decades and the results are in that yes a small dose in the winter months will stop you getting severe health problems from vitamin D deficiency but the bigger doses which are so common on the high street and they're expensive and they're marketed as sort of the pro dose the max dose the ultra dose those doses are associated with harm and they will not give you the benefits it is not the miracle thing we hope to would be
let's talk about the menopause I mean talking about a huge a huge market and supplements that cost a lot of money and obviously marketed to half the population how effective are they and just and just tell us how it fits in with some of the problems that or some of the worries that have been associated rightly or wrongly with HRT so in the late 90s the women's health initiative is a big study of HRT which is a very popular drug 80% of postmenopause women are taking HRT at that time and basically they publish a big increased risk of cancer and this is very very poorly communicated and it means that HRT prescriptions plummet and people go straight to the supplement aisle because menopause is really really difficult and the wellness industry is offering you hundreds of different supplements and there are two big problems with these supplements the first is that some of the ingredients are dangerous so black co-hosh is one of the most common menopause supplement ingredients
our drug regulator in the UK is probably the best drug regulator in the world the MHRA and they say it should have a health warning on it because it is associated with liver failure we do not put a health warning on black co-hosh supplements in the UK there's no legal requirement to do it so that's the first problem the second problem is that they don't work in general that all the research says menopause supplements are not helpful and actually HRT is much safer than you think on that point though I mean I found it particularly striking the way as you say that it was it was communicated that the risk of developing cancer and communicated in the press I just wonder whether the press has a role to play in in the way it addresses some of these things we're bombarded every day with claims about various ingredients various things that we could be drinking eating taking and the way that the statistics in the minute plays it is is that a problem as a doctor I would love to blame the journalist and not the doctors I feel like that would be great but it was the scientist and the doctors that stopped the trial early and that communicated with the journalists and if you buy the way of thinking about it is if you buy a lottery ticket in the UK
your odds of winning the lottery are about one in 50 million if you buy two lottery tickets you double your chances of winning the lottery and doubling your chances sounds like a really good thing to do but your chance is still one in 25 million it's you're still not going to win the lottery well that was very similar to the breast cancer risk so your breast cancer risk increased by 26% which is devastating headline it makes it sound like a quarter of people are going to get breast cancer in fact that is a 20% increase of a very small risk so it's so relative to the and in fact the trial was designed to include a population of people who were probably slightly at higher risk and HRT is valuable as a bridge through the menopause symptoms so most people are not exposed to that risk I'm not saying there's no risk these things are are very serious for people to consider but there are risks that we do take with other products all the time so is your overall conclusion that broadly we're wasting our money on supplements wellness is great and the place I get to in the book is that pursuing wellness is really important and the best way of doing that is not to buy these products
no matter how scientific they sound the supplements the wearable type they're testing they may do you harm and they won't do you good but there are loads of things you can do that will help you to lead an important life that's meaningful for you and the lovely place that I got to is my colleagues at UCL have got great research to say that engaging with the arts engaging with things you love that you find joyful and meaningful is good for you in lots of ways so that that can be join a choir learn a language learn an instrument I do pottery learn to knit expand your brain it will be good for your mind it will be good for your social world and it will be fun and cheap that's Dr. Zand Van Tullerkin talking to James Menendez about his book make me well the truth about the wellness industry supplements and personalized health that's our news hour or laptop goodbye
More episodes
