Inside the Clippers Fallout with Joe House + Shi Davidi on Vladdy's Big Night

0:00The Famous show sports and five nine in the fan Ben and a stand-alone friend Chesky so our next guest I expected to be talking about the upcoming NFL season and and we'll do some some of that as well The patriots and see Hawks opening up NFL week one next week, but then rich guy got got spanked by the NBA commissioner and we want to talk to a guy who has Many rich guy friends is a rich guy himself. It's lesser degree than Steve Balmer, but it's Joe House of the Ringer. Good morning Joe Not a rich guy Yeah, not a happy guy not rich, but certainly, you know Here's the the life rule boys always stay close to the river of money The rule that co-I letter certainly understand he shared that I mean what do you make of what is essentially the death penalty?

1:01It is equivalent to the Joe Smith penalty handed out all those decades ago the five first round picks obviously The fine is bigger, but inflation also Steve Balmer the richest owner in the NBA Can you believe that the NBA came down this hard on the Clippers? I cannot it is an unmitigated catastrophe and the true victims of this otherwise victimless crime are People who want to pay to go to see professional basketball and root for the Clippers. Yeah, what do you tell those fans? The problem with this entire machinery is That you can't really truly punish the team without punishing the fans What do you tell those folks for the next five seven eight years? Is the compelling reason to spend Exorbited amounts of money to go watch professional basketball with the Clippers to do Clippers fans now have to all compete with

2:07Lakers fans for tickets or or is the idea that the team is gonna suck so They'll be a depressed market, but I mean what do you tell you the season ticket holders? It's crazy to me No, it's a tough sell no no doubt about it very tough sell for That fan base or the people that are gonna you know fork over money to attend these games that that's a team that over the next Ugh, maybe at least half decade if not longer than that You're talking about being in a really difficult spot and having a hard time replenishing the talent on their roster Joe from from Adam Silver's perspective Why was it ultimately so important to lay down a punishment of this magnitude and how does it how does it impact his reputation and his perception Around the NBA Yes, so clearly the league Um was pissed Something happened over the course of of this year in terms of the investigation by that by the league and

3:13Communication that must have occurred that where the league feels like it was it was dupes or you know, let us try and they made a big point Of saying that this is not the first time Under the ballmer regime that this kind of circumvention has occurred and that's why we're seeing this kind of death penalty penalty You know, there was a reference to Some assistance they offered deandre Jordan. So ballmer acquired the team of 2014 and 2015 They did some kind of deal involving deandre Jordan off court deal It was it was small, but they pointed to that you know a dozen years ago as a as a motivating factor in You know the this penalty that they've issued and Yes, there are lots and lots and lots of of emails email traffic over the last over that that that the entirety of coise career there

4:13Where they were putting them in touch with sponsors um, and you know, it seemed like lots of of coordination to ensure that that coise Off the the court coffers were being filled but the the problem for lay people like us is What is where is the where do you draw the line between a team facilitating coordinating Um on behalf of its you know most important players off court deals and and what what is sort Cal salary cap circumvention where is that line well the the team Circle the whole bunch of the deals the clippers did Clearly on coise behalf and said this is the line and it's in you cross it Yeah, clearly and and they they had enough Emails or text exchanges to to believe that they had the smoking gun, but None of this happens without Pablo Torres podcasts like you got to think that the league as much as they don't want this stuff happening

5:18Understanding that maybe it happens to a degree, but turning a blind eye like they This doesn't make the NBA any more attractive to anybody that nobody's looking at at at at nobody's watching more NBA games because this is happening Obviously the league would prefer that this whole mess had never happened to begin with I I I can't help but go back to the initial podcast even in the the walk-toe lifting report They dimension that it's the impetus for everything like none of this it feels like happens with without Pablo Torres first podcast I completely agree and now that this You know stone has been turned over I don't see how the league can ignore Circumstances like Jalen Brunson going to the next leaving the Dallas fabric after his father was hired by the guy on next The year prior and a grain to a contract that's a hundred billion dollars under market seems like there could be something there

6:25I wonder what those emails look like It's also very curious that Kevin Durant during his time with the Golden State Warriors Made investment after investment that is returning to him 15x 16x 22x all with these startup tech companies Maybe he was very active in the Bay Area going around to vc's you know these Looking at startup with his investment team or maybe You know the smart investors behind the Warriors were having communications who knows who can say but those stones better be turned over Yeah, I think I mean that's it's a great point I mentioned this earlier too and in part of why in addition to the punishment itself why the Clippers why Steve Balmer would be so Up in arms so angry with this ruling is the idea that well look at all these there are examples Historically of the NBA kind of turning a blind eye to a variety of different issues

7:28Maybe not something of this magnitude or to this extreme but ultimately Yeah, with the reputation that exists is the Adam silver the NBA under Adam silver It's been a bit of a pushover and there hasn't been this iron fist that's been ruling over everything That I think that's what to me makes the timing really interesting in all of this and now You're essentially at war with the richest the wealthiest owner in the NBA and arguably in all the professional sports So how does I mean how did how do you think that Joe plays out here over the next handful of months and years when it comes to this relationship that Exist between the Clippers between Steve Balmer Adam silver and and the league like how do they how do they proceed from here? Well, it's a really weird Dynamic because The the narrative right now as it relates to owners in the NBA is not good They approved a sale to a guy who is engaged in in

8:34serial fraud with his Insurance companies in the form of LA acre LA Lakers owner Mark Walter They approved the sale of Mark Cuban to the family, you know, the with with the Vegas interest who arrived in Dallas and immediately Traded one of the most iconic popular players in the history of certainly Dallas, but you know a young player in the NBA an unprecedented trade the approved the sale of the Phoenix Suns Fragized to a guy who's mortgage empire seems to be built on pretty thin Reeds and is in financial trouble in his in his own right and they chose To poke a stick in the eye of one of the richest human beings on earth Who let me tell you he's not going to win any lawsuits against the NBA But what does he care he doesn't need to win all he needs to win is in the court of public opinion

9:35He needs to restore his reputation and there's no amount of money that that will prevent him from trying to jump in with some kind of lawsuit And embarrass the league. Do you really want to incentivize the richest one the richest guys in the world to embarrass your league? I think that's what we're looking at Yeah, totally it's and what adds complication to it is like if you were a clippers fan you would want your owner doing everything he could to make your team good on the court Which is what Steve bomber was doing? I'm not I'm not excusing him and and and and all the the the the the various doings With kawaii Leonard but and then he arrives like after the the most despise and despicable owner in pro sports is booted out of the league and he pays in A record sum for the clippers he builds them new building and and he has legitimate money, right? He he nobody's looking into the way he he made his money through Microsoft But why would he want to be an owner in this league? He's 70 now so by the time that they finally get the their next first round pick

10:38And of course they will have the raptors in what 20 29 and 2031 if this kawaii trade goes through but their own first round pick is going to be 2034 He's going to be almost 80 years old by then the and one of the funnest things about being a pro sports owner is showing up on At court side and being you know visibly seen and interacting with the players He's banned for a year like why would he want to be an owner in this league right now? It's a great point and maybe all of this is architecture To produce yet yet another sale in the NBA. I mean the valuations are right at an all-time pie I think ironically he's probably a hero to fans of the clippers You're you're right about his resume since he arrived all these done is build a stadium with his own money and try and make the team better By by any an all means necessary He wasn't successful. That's because of the clippers But he did try it wasn't like you know he was just sitting by idly They do have one of the very best coaches

11:39In coaching staff in the NBA and they have you know fried hearts it's a recruit talent to that team And you know this is the thing you know from the outset we were talking about I just don't know What your message is to the fans. It's such an f you to the fan Yeah, when the clippers officially divest themselves of koai Leonard in I don't know a few days a week whenever this trade gets Finalized it's gonna close the book on a very very forgettable era of clippers basketball They thought they were in going to be enjoying a golden era of clippers basketball and in the end it was It was an unmitigated disaster koai Leonard recruited you know maybe This some of the back behind the closed doors the the backroom dealings that transpired But then the demanding a trade for Paul George and there's five first round picks that go out the door there You lose sga and one ends up becoming jalen Williams and in the end Like 10 total first round picks for an era

12:41That resulted in one western conference finals appearance I mean when we reflect on this This seven year run with koai Leonard as a clipper Which also included of course Paul George as a clipper they came as a package deal Are we talking about one of the worst moves that we've ever seen in NBA history Joe is it on that level It makes the list because of this penalty. I mean it was going to always be noteworthy the annals of the league for sga became shaggyl to say Alexander back-to-back league mvp You know involved in in a trade because the clippers misjudged the the talent potential and and were misguided in the team building where you know they they wanted to accommodate koai However, they could I mean this is really the story of the accommodation of koai and what that price

13:45is Gonna turn out to be but you you have to Acknowledge. It's top five nothing will ever in the history of the league rival trading lucodonchich in my opinion. Okay fair enough But this is number two. Let's put this is number two and it's a bad number two one L.A. franchise Yeah, one L.A. franchise benefited the other was sunken by a Transaction look at that, eh? I mean they're both on the list just in different forms Well, and and on the other side of the ledger can we not talk about even going back to The injuries that the warrior suffered in the 2019 finals the raptors like let's also not get it twisted They would have done the Paul George trade that anybody in the league would have done what it took to get Kawai Leonard coming off that finals mvp run in 2019 but Because they weren't willing to do it or weren't willing to do the things that the clippers were or that he was always gonna go to L.A. Either way, and he was always going to the clippers because kawaii because Lawrence Frank had like season tickets to that raptors

14:45Season he was at every single game Sistering and kawaii Every single game So and we'll see how this next era goes, but like does it not feel like the raptors are touched by God that they avoided that Whole morass and and they didn't have us an sga to give up at the time But that they avoid all of that and then they get the guy back and yeah, they're gonna have to pay a couple of of Unprotected first round picks for it But yeah that they missed this whole thing after winning a title that hey You can only play who's in front of you, but that the the warriors lose Kd and clay Thompson in that finals and then you get the guy back Is it do you view the raptors as one of the luckiest franchises in in North American pro sports? Well, I hope raptors fans feel that way because it's it's a gosh darn miracle and it's true Just to be like big kawaii was was was one and done It has been widely reported that you know he really Well, and you have to give him credit. He didn't have step. He did drag the franchise to that title

15:49It was a very good team um and he did you know he was he was absolutely Brilliant for the the entire playoff series and the finals um and then you know He'd always had that Southern California estate. I mean, I think they had shovels in the ground before he left an Antonio But I mean this is the twofold element of this in terms of the frustration that I think Clippers fans should rightly feel is The stories about what Uncle Dennis was up to in that era and the league I mean the Toronto raptors themselves were Screaming at the league what the hell is going on here? This guy is In us He's out here trying to get all of all of the these deals that are outside the bounds Where was the league then where was the warning to to kawaii and his representation and a warning to the Clippers It was like so widely reported you guys lived it in Toronto with all the outrage when he left but

16:57Like I hope for the best for the good people of Toronto because in no small part the Toronto raptors may be a lot of money last season Thank you. Thank you. Thank you raptors Well or or Joe you know what else could have been possible They were just so brazen that even as there were warning shots fired here and there a little bit like you know Hey, just kind of a nudge on occasion. Maybe they just you know Uncle Dennis and and Mitch Frankl who I think that's also interesting to me You know, maybe they it was just so brazen. They didn't really care. They weren't worried about it What's so ever in the Clippers thought hey? We got the richest guy we got more we got an owner who has more money than god We don't have to worry about it and Ultimately the chickens came to ruse but when with even even with Mitch Frankl You know kawaii Separated himself from his agent. He separates himself from his uncle who's now banned from any NBA activities That's that's fine. I think we all kind of expected that I'm a little bit surprised that the agent wasn't Sort of named in this in any way because just as much as uncle Dennis was a part of it

18:00And maybe driving the bus in all of it I mean the agent was clearly complicit his name is on a lot of this stuff too And so he kind of walks away Mitch Frankl has been believed for a long long time He walks away and can and can wipe his hands and it doesn't seem to have an effect And obviously the kawaii lender piece of all of this one thing we haven't mentioned is You know 700,000 dollars in restitution ends up being the fine for kawaii I mean does it feel like he got off really easy and all things considered and ultimately the he is hiding not hiding behind But he is almost saved by plausible deniability that seems to be the theme when it comes to kawaii and his level of knowledge or Or involvement in all of this. I mean that's undoubtedly the the case and Whether it was deliberate or unwitting. I don't know which way you guys would sort of cast that There I know emails from kawaii saying please go get me this deal Where's my where's my money?

19:01Kawaii is not writing texts and emails creating a paper trail that say I need a lot of extra money You guys better figure it out. No, that's what uncle Dennis was for And I don't I don't know how much Correspondence even with with uncle Dennis other than where's that money? Where's my bag? I mean that's about the extent of it right Those guys at least have Good luck or good wisdom whichever it is to not be putting all this and writing That's the true problem for the for the quippers and again, I think a lot of this There is a gray line there because there's undoubtedly the case that that players on teams Have sponsorship deals with sponsors that also You know work on behalf of of individual teams and there's no doubt that it's like the same marketing people Who help orchestrate this deal for coke for a team like you know, I'll just say my own team the Washington Wizards

20:06Well, cook also wants to be in the business of a J the bonza so a J has a deal And when those marketing people come to Washington and visit with the the leon's family Do they also visit with with a J probably is there some overlap in the communication probably probably But that's all above board. That's all all fine. Where's the line exactly? I don't know, but it seems like the quippers The quippers probably didn't know either. They just found out. Yeah No, public or he gets to decide And yeah, so we'll see where the where the crosshairs get pointed next Okay, so I'm glad that the Raptors made you a bunch of money last year Joe I do want to ask you what one NFL question. I'll leave it open ended to you because man the Rams at plus 500 to win the super bowl is ridiculous But yeah, we got the the season starting next week on Wednesday Super Bowl rematch As if we needed one after that super bowl and I think what's going to be especially compared to last year or down Patriot season all right any team totals that you see over unders that has the most value

21:13Yeah, so Played a handful of these We're really bullish myself and over at the ringer on the Houston Texans this upcoming season We have the Houston Texans as Kind of a dark horse team coming out of the aFC The combination of how dominant their defense is Plus the fact that they get to implement an offense that they couldn't really Put in place last season because they arrived at the beginning of last season With a Russia attack that was based on a player named Joe Mixon who never played a single down last season They get to really put it and and and the player that looked the worst for that was CJ Stroud So the entire you know all the fan base and league Pointed down year for CJ Stroud will they never could implement the offense they wanted We think that that defense is really good um there in Houston and and you know We were in an era of the NFL now where

22:15Defenses are turning out to be a little more sticky which is to say You're over year dominant defenses if you have that you can be a double digit win team So if Houston is one team on the on the oversight on the underside I I Think I don't think I'm alone in this Really skeptical of of the Green Bay Packers this upcoming season I think that they got worse on the offensive line and it doesn't seem like Micah Parsons is going to be back until mid season and they fell off a cliff defensively In terms of their ability to create any past rush on anybody Three of the last four seasons the Packers has finished at nine wins Have not gotten to 10 wins. Well their win total is nine and a half If you you win your bet if they get to nine wins again The NFC North is really good all of those teams are going to win. I think you know Eight nine ten games and so just playing the teams in your own division is hard enough

23:19So I have the Packers as an under Love it. Joe appreciate the time. Thanks for this Always boys you call I answer. I always enjoy it. Uh, thanks Joe Uh, the great Joe House of the ringer. So yeah I like we're talking about the Clippers understandably so because they're getting the death penalty five first round picks and a decade until the Out of this mess and boy you think about even the the years beyond having the first round pick like how long it takes for you to recoup those assets lost and yeah it might be a decade before the the Clippers are relevant again The Raptors just feel like the luckiest franchise in North American post sports because they they rolled the dice with the Chauai trade although they gave up next to nothing for him You had to do it even if it was just for the one year and you were pivoting if you if it flamed Out anyways, but you win the title and full credit to the Raptors and Chauai who was amazing the entire postseason But you get the break of yeah

24:20Chemerant's Achilles breaking and and then Clay Thompson going down because remember how good the Warriors looked in the brief moment that Kevin direct appeared in that series you win the title you You have the moment where you think you can retain Chauai But you lose Chauai and it looks like the Clippers are the big winner despite all the assets they gave up And it's been nothing but a nightmare and the next half decade for the Clippers and then you get Chauai again and You go through some seasons where you do the tap attack and you get Scotty Barnes and Man, it just we'll see right like I can obviously amend this if if Chauai is broken and done right and and those Those unprotected first round picks are really good for the Clippers and it's the Raptors That are are looking for assets in in five years, but right now it just feels like the Raptors are one of the luckiest franchises in North American pro sports Then they dodge the Massibull they dodge the Massibullet They they obviously in their heart of hearts

25:23Back then they they desperately wanted to retain why they wanted to convince a guy who was brought here as a pure rental as a As a one-year mercenary They wanted to convince him to stay long term They made it difficult why because they want a championship, but ultimately he goes away Yeah, and then they they as as things unfolded here over these last seven seasons It ends up turning out no no the Raptors were actually The the ones that came away with the best possible outcome and now they end up with the player And not just that they end up with him again. They're ending up with a motivated version of Chauai Leonard Why because he's gonna how do you quickly kind of bury this story and turn the page? How about you show up and you you perform you play like the Chauai that was Unbelievable last year for the Clippers in the second half of the season If he does that all of a sudden in this market nobody's talking about Chauai and the the ties or connection to Cap sir convention with the Clippers it goes away the Clippers have to wear it Chauai can easily just move on from it and the Raptors get a motivated version of Chauai Leonard at this stage of his career

26:27Yeah, that's all it's all amazing Yeah, it's it's incredible again. Maybe he's done Maybe he's broken and maybe play snow games. Obviously the Raptors are gonna Probably manage him to a degree that he's he's not playing 70 games, but yeah, definitely just feels like Good times for the Raptors bad times for the the Clippers anyways Good times for the Blue Jays yesterday is they beat the Guardians 11 nothing looking to win the rubber match this afternoon We'll talk to shy to VD next as the fan morning show continues Ben and his deniela Franceschi sports net 590 the fan Hey, it's a list for a far and I'm just in comfort join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and T up The biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame 6 p.m. weekdays on sports net sports net 590 the fan in wherever you get your podcasts You Fam morning show sports net 590 the fan Ben and his deniela Franceschi Wasn't really a must win the season would have continued today

27:30But it would have felt like a real bummer Blue Jays hadn't won yesterday In Cleveland after losing the opener and with the race on the mound, but they did they won in Infatic fashion 11 nothing over the Guardian setting up today's rubber match. Let's talk to today's inside a brought to you by Don Valley North Lexus Shy to be the good morning shy Good morning. How you doing doing very well. So yeah, I don't want to get too crazy with it But holy cow there there were things that we saw from Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. yesterday that we literally haven't seen all season long A home run in a double in the same game 5 rbis neither thing has happened before yesterday And they happened off breaking balls, which he hasn't had success against this season Yeah, I'm not asking you to say that he's back for sure But if it there was a game That that felt like boy maybe better things are ahead for Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. Did that not feel like it It did, but We've got to be careful with narrative. I think two right where

28:34There've been a few times this season where he's had performances. You're like, okay, there's the breakthrough And this is the breakthrough game and now he's gonna bounce back and take off and and it hasn't happened so What he does tonight versus Ted or Bobby is able to continue what he did off can't tell yesterday Like that's that's the big test, but what Maybe speeds out a little bit is yeah, I read a If you can conversation with him and coach Dave Popkins on pick was Friday Saturday and One of the points if he was making Was that in Guerrero's work. He was starting to see some things That were feeding that and what they were saying was that the way that he was ending the fastball letting it travel even though he had he just made some hardouts The contact point was better and the fact that he was let catching the fastball a little bit deeper and driving it to Right field right center

29:35Suggested that you know he was just letting the ball travel more which would ultimately help him identify breaking balls and get to Damage on the breaking balls and so when he start When you piece that together with what he did last night with the way he crushed the two Breaking balls in the early innings then all of a sudden like okay, maybe maybe that's the stepping stone that he needed Yeah, first home run allowed by Joey Cantillo on his curveball This season it's his best pitch by far. It's been one of the best curve balls in all the baseball in Vladie Hit a double first that bat and then went yard second time around shy. Okay speaking of speaking of narratives I think Ben and I are totally on board with the idea that you got to see this sort of now extrapolated into a bit of a hot stretch In order to feel like okay, he started to figure something out here but How would his season long narrative shift if he had a good final 23 games to the regular season

30:38Including last night if that was really the spark if that is the the launching pad for something bigger and he has this a nice run Between now in the end of September. How does that reshape how how we think of What his season actually has been like and what and how we reflect on it I Don't know that it dramatically shifted but But it think it just gives it obviously a very different ending and You know if a lot of them are grow junior goes on a hot street right now like it you I can't imagine the chase not making the postseason if he goes on the heater Right, it's really the thing that's been keeping them from From being the best version of themselves or or I guess it's the one most it's the one element that most dramatically can impact their postseason hope in a positive way And so you know, I think that it'll

31:39maybe just You know it'll soften what has been a very difficult season But you can't just sort of just say oh well, you know what happened The five months previous all that's like gone and forgotten right now, right and I don't think that from his perspective It would you know look just in conversations I've had with him and the times that he said it like you know I've learned a lot from this and I know the things are gonna be different next time and I know Things that I need to do and things of that nature like Then this isn't gonna be an important learning experience for him Even if it are as difficult as trying as it's been But I think that if the if the Jews get the get the finish that they were looking for when and they find their way into the postseason and find a way to Maybe have some success in the postseason then all of a sudden You know, it ain't just it won't feel quite as bad

32:39But it'll still be a Disappointing year and a year that establishes a new floor for him right? You would have thought that if the Last year the 20 the 23 season some of the other years where he didn't put up Massive numbers, but still have like a you know 800 OPS That was the floor, but all of a sudden we've seen a different floor for him and it's been shocking at times But yeah, it could certainly soften the impact of that with with this combination Not for me for me it'll be like the men in black stick like I'll literally have forgotten entirely about the first five months Especially if like this leads them into the postseason and then he looks like the guy that we saw in October last year Like yeah, no, I've forgotten I get I won't actually factually, but it will change everything for me like I it will be Okay, yeah, that was rocky that was scary as terrifying But we're back baby and we're not as terrified about the next 13 years beyond this at a half billion dollars

33:41Because it's still in there because there there are times He's looked so bad this season there were times or I was like oh my god. Is are we ever going to see it again? and yeah Better late than never I would say and yesterday he Look like the best version of himself Dylan cease didn't look like the best version of himself because the best version of himself may be strikes out 12 in the in the inning or in that outing yesterday over six He was exactly what the blue jays needed and in a game that got out of hand They were able to get him out of there with just over 80 pitches Didn't walk about her I described it as like a just a professional outing from Dylan sees shy like this is not a guardian's offense That's that's supposed to scare you especially if you're Dylan cease and when the blue jays took the lead Even at one nothing in the first inning like he just was filling the zone that was Man, I know We're running out of superlatives to throw in his direction But that was the biggest start of his blue jays career and and he was awesome He was everything the blue jays needed out of him

34:44Right and the other thing too to keep in mind is as he's you know continues to be on track to and I like that throw a Reaching you career high or or right close to his career high in innings Is that he continues to find ways to be more efficient and to preserve himself from a physical perspective And knowing that you know he was supposed to get another off day this year I'm choosing this week this week And the blue jays moved him up so that he could pitch you in this most important game And he was still able to do what he did and so In the The phrase that you keep hearing around Dylan cease is that he's really pitching this year And I know that a couple weeks ago When he said that he feels this season has been his strongest from the developmental standpoint in quite a few years That a lot of people around the blue jays were really heartened to hear that and because they feel the same way

35:49But for him to sort of acknowledge and feel better recognize that that's pretty important and so What he's done this year numbers aside is just Come to come to realize just the full extent of his powers And that those powers aren't wholly dependent on the fastball being at 98 and the slider being ridiculous That he could do so many other things and there's so many other ways to get out and he can Find ways to be efficient more efficient in his outings and he can use different pitches And that he doesn't have to have those two things going in order to be successful and so In I think you hear that with the effort of the timeliness of what he did last night And sure and help that the jays open that up in a big way was six nothing in the second inning and So you can let it let it eat a little bit But that that's him continuing his pro his progress Going from you know and an all-star level picture to to one who's becoming an ace

36:54And a sion caliber picture, which is exactly what he wanted when he signed here as well as the jays Yeah, it's been really impressive to watch his his evolution this year a lot of fun and I think you hit the nell in the head You're talking about a guy that's gone from being you know a good frontline starter and stuff has always suggested he could be that to now He's somebody you feel really really good about taking the ball in every possible big game That the blue jays could potentially encounter down the stretch and maybe even into October This year shy to partner for you on this one one You like the idea of Alejandro Kirk hitting clean up and I guess second to that You we've seen him already play back to back days. We know the jays don't like to have him Trot out there for three consecutive especially behind the plate But do you think we see him again in the other this afternoon in the finale against Cleveland? Part of the thinking for the jays in terms of his usage last week was to

37:54Set him up from a physical perspective that he could go three in a row Out of it with the day after night the way that he might have to today and you could Definitely see the the the reasoning why the 50s are the games that are most important These are the ones that you want to have him going and set for So I would not be shocked if we saw him in this one, but you could also Knowing that you know they've got some travel coming up even with an off day on Thursday Maybe maybe they do try to get him to in a row here to get him set for I can't say beyond But this is this is the one where the priority is right now in terms of him batting cleanup. I think The blue jays have searched for steady production all season and if he's You what you're trying to do with each lineup is just and this is how they they think about these things like what is the

38:56Optimal setup for the starter we're facing that way they both line up to try and defeat the starter And so you know that line you just want him up high right now getting as many of that as possible And preferably at bats with guys on base and I think that's why you're seeing in cleanup spot You see them third you see them in in a few different areas, but His production you know what the jays were going good towards the end of the last season. He was at cleanup I gained certain in certain lineups when Addison barter wasn't And and the blue jays found a way to make that work and I think they'll continue to to ride that a little bit Especially while he continues to be so hot Maybe they should just put Josh Smith in the clear up role because he's been a monster as a blue jay comes back Off the aisle and returns when rosters expand in September in 15 games as a blue jays hit three home runs This is a guy who's who's shown some power in the past 13 home runs he hit in in 2024 You also got Sean keys making his first appearance since his second recall and we know he's been playing left field

40:01In Buffalo some interesting line-up decisions today shy What do you expect the blue jays to do because you know if Sean keys is here and he was playing left field Like they must feel feel comfortable with him in left field also It's yeah, you mentioned that the Kirk day game after a night game thing I don't imagine you want to remove George springers bad from the equation Could Kirk be the the D.H. I'd be of the belief too though if you hit a home run in a baseball game You play the next day so Josh Smith is in my lineup. I guess that means that Sean keys would not be Uh, maybe and look It's still a pretty limited scope of left field for Sean keys and that You're not you know, Jose sorry. I don't give up some flyballs sometimes like you're not you're not just uh totally planting on defense you used so that I give him a good defense to so you're not You're not solely focused on on the offense

41:03but Yeah, like What Josh Smith allows you to do and we'll we'll start with him is that you can You know or any Clemente has played has played a ton and do you Gonna give him a break or you maybe try to find a way to give Okamoto a break and keys played a ton Uh and and and keep those guys fresh is that a matchup do you do like uh do you like One of those guys a bit less against bivy and and you want Josh Smith there and then you know Sean keys fits within that too But You know does I'm not sure that the the left field is the the main pathway for him There's still gonna be some opportunities at first because you're gonna dh Guerrero on occasion Uh, and there might be some rest for Okamoto I think with the you know the way that it's moving forward Their assessment was that they're gonna be more opportunities for a left-handed at bat

42:03Or left-handed ab in certain spots Then for right-handed spots, which is why daz Cameron ends up the odd man out and Charles macadu Uh has shown that he belongs on the big lead club Uh, but the blue cheese has more options Which is something that they thought they didn't have Uh for the all-star break and now they can do a bit more of the mix and match thing Which was a key part of their success and that they've been trying to get to this year Just couldn't find the right set of pieces to make that work Sean, we're gonna see Jose soriano today The blue jays have obviously lined it up to ensure that they could have seasoned soriano throwing this series Against the team that they're they're obviously chasing in the wild car picture We've seen a handful of starts now from Jose soriano. What what do you think we've learned? What have we learned about him? Over the course of these first five six outings as a blue jay and What do you think are some of the key data points that maybe the jays themselves are sort of prioritizing and valuing the most

43:04Uh in terms of downloading information about this this guy who's gonna be a big part of things not just the rest of season, but moving forward beyond this year Yeah, so um they're still in i don't want to say the the Learning stage right because it's not just about uh it was because they're They've gotten to know one another a little bit and they're and they're definitely figuring some things out But there's still very much in the relationship building where you know he's they're taking into a lot of things from them They're downloading from him what he needs and they're finding ways to work together and it's Similar ish to the Dillon's he so though they didn't have the the whole spring and off season to get to know each other But where you're taking these this towel you're allowing him to do To use the elements that he's always found success with

44:05But then you're also Working in and around that and try to tweak it very slowly and and he's responded to that and it's not just been in terms of You know Just like pitches, but also just learning the way the jays operate different conversations Examples of like you know When they take him out explain to him why they're taking him out of the ballgame You know i think about the outing in Tampa where you want to get through the sixth inning and you could see That he was like a bit disappointed on the mound, but then you know john Schneider comes to the dugout But his arm around them data talking next day and said hey this is why it's not that i don't trust you This is why You know i can take you out because i'm also thinking about these things in the for the bullpen guys Those things are important And and that's been happening simultaneously and the other piece is that soriano is pitching in

45:06Meaningful September games for the first time in his career. Bailey That the angels were dead and buried at this point in all his previous seasons And so he's learning about himself and the jays are saying that like one He wants the ball he doesn't shy away from the challenge and it the moment isn't too big for him So i think those are things that they're learning about him and that he's learning about them at the same time All within the pressure cooker of Every game being so important right now and i think that's what Is been sort of notable especially for a guy who hasn't had to do this before Yeah, uh should be fun this afternoon shy appreciate the time. Thanks buddy No problem follows be well enjoy it You too shy to be today's insider brought to you by dawn bali north lexas So a couple of things before we break here deniela Maybe under discussed how Severely and for how long Ernie Clement has struggled now yes brought to the yesterday man next yeah

46:08Beginning of july So that's you would say that was a long time ago, right Canada today you'd say wholesome Yeah, that feels like that was that was more than a minute ago 53 games he's got an op s of five 79 since then i guess that's a bombidable right like and and i I'm not any less believing in what Ernie Clement is or can be But i think at his best he's a guy that doesn't get on base hits for a high average and can hit one out and positional versatility and all that and What what feels like now back to his normal good defense he had that weird defensive slump earlier this year But yeah, he stinks right now like straight up like he Josh smith is a better option than Ernie Clement right now Josh smith is hidden balls over walls Plenty and will that continue probably not like the career history doesn't indicate that but i think against righties You got to kind of ride the hot hand here I know Ernie Clement is one of the faces of the frangized and the all star and yeah, yeah, yeah,

47:09But i've been playing Josh smith over Ernie Clement right now until he is no longer hot And yeah, it doesn't mean Ernie Clement doesn't play like he'll play plenty and and Kazo Kamoto like yeah He does also going into the season I don't think anybody said the Kazo Kamoto has to play all the games right so like i do find I think there's there's room for for Josh smith either Fillin in for Okamoto or or Clement in this game. No, I would agree I think especially the key for me is right handed pitching and You know, this is a team that Loves playing the matchup game and they do You'll like to construct their lineups around the hand in this of the opposing picture Which is an abnormal obviously across baseball but In saying that if you're one a reward a guy who did hit a home or last night and obviously you you mentioned it I agree and and you mentioned the numbers for any Clement This feels like a really natural spot to to do that on a day where it's it's a game You know day game after a night game it feels like it would be appropriate logical to go that route and I I've

48:10You know sam and i talked about this yesterday would not be opposed whatsoever to seeing Josh smith now that he's back now that he's been activated as you navigate these final few weeks If you are going to lean into that matchup game a lot more and you're going to give him more starts against right handed pitching Unless he proves that he is just the bad is so wolfful of which hasn't been the case that it demands somebody else is in there But Ernie Clement maybe it benefits him to even get the odd blow here and there because you're right You know, we are a little bit. I feel like his season has been a little bit Colored by what he did in the first half and being an all-star starter and in addition to that It's also he's such a beloved figure fan favorite because of what happened in October We we actually haven't acknowledged or talked about very much what's gone on recently with him where he's just he's kind of been You know, he hasn't been very good offensively or at best you'd say okay passable, but other than that It's um, you know, we've kind of ignored it. It hasn't been talked about a ton And I'd be on board with Josh Smith again to look and a start today that second base

49:10Yeah, this is no offense to Ernie Clement because he also has access to the internet and understand what his career norms are But yeah last year's great season for Ernie Clement According credit small reference. He was a four-win player in an opus of 7-11 though That's slightly below league averaging opus plus of 94 like this is yeah Yeah, he's is is not he's not Barry bonds Um, and he doesn't have to play every day if he's possible. Yeah, yeah And and the positional versatility and the defense and the contact ability. It's all good But yeah, he's struggling he doesn't have to play all right when we come back We'll talk to Dan Schoelman GASF for today's game as well as the fan morning show continues Ben Ns Daniel and Franceski sports at 590 defense