INTERVIEW: Russ on Ego, Independence, Living in the Moment, New Movie + More

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a bookshelf and you're a for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and pop culture. With your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of over thought opinions.

1:02Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to pro society on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. We're with right wing ties that purchase hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is our town. A podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment

2:04and fights back. I guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to our town on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, finish or y'all done? Yes, it's the world of most dangerous morning show the breakfast club, DJ N.V. Justin Larry and Shalamey and the God, N.V. is on vacation, but L.L. Cool Bay is here along La Rosa and we got a special guest, man. You know him is one of the biggest independent artists out if not the biggest, but now he's about to be a movie star. Come on. Ross, what's up, my brother? What up, man? You know, it's funny. You spent like a whole career building a system where you're at a bar. So what's it like walking on a movie set where nobody gives a damn that you rush? Okay, you got a director, you got a hurry up and wait. You got to hit line. Somebody else wrote it. You got to surrender complete control. You know, surprisingly, it was one of the most just fulfilling experiences because of

3:06all those things you said. Like, it wasn't all on me. You know what I mean? I got to finally sort of just show up on X-Mark's spot and just do your part and everyone else is handling like the logistics and it was nice, man. And just to be part of a community, it gave me such a contrast with my music career and it made me realize how lonely my music career has been and just how like isolated I've been in my music career. And it was man, I was sending voice memos at the end of it like ball in my eyes out to the director and the cast. Some people responded. Some people did not, but interesting. Yeah. So do you feel isolated as an artist? Well, yeah, you got to think, right? It's like I go downstairs in my house, in my studio and sit there by myself and make a lot of songs, right? And it's awesome and I love it. Granite like earlier on, I was maybe, you know, in the studio with more people because my boy Boogey is who was in his house. But for the most part of the last five, six years, it's just been me, Dolor in the basement in the studio and it's been great.

4:08But going on a movie set and it's, you know, 100 people and we're all like here to do this one thing. That's the community. Yeah. And it's incredible because you just, you know, you're not by yourself in this thing. It's not just you going through what you're going through. You guys are all kind of going through the same quote unquote struggle. It was just so beautiful. A lot of support. Yeah. And I was like, wow, I need to create this in my music career. Now, why would it, if you'd be an independent cause there? Because like, you know, you see a lot of you guys that sign the majors, it seems like it's a lot of camaraderie like maybe because you're independent, they like, you know, let's keep him over there because no, it was personal choice. Okay. Yeah, it was user error. You just don't like a month. Well, no, it was just, no, it was just what it was was, well, I don't need anyone to make a song. So I'll just make the songs by myself. You know what I mean? I didn't understand the value really of collaboration, I guess, in a sense. Like it's not that I haven't collaborated with people, but a studio session to me is so spiritual and private and vulnerable that I don't want people around.

5:10Like don't watch me while I'm recording. Like, you know what I mean? So for me, that was kind of the mindset, but after doing the movie, I'm way more open to, you know, getting in the studio with people and just having fun doing and trying to make one thing with a bunch of people. Now, do you know people like the other people like yourself that has to like where how you describe the creative process of making music, right? Yeah. It's so spiritual is like, you have to allow yourself to be vulnerable. Like do you know other people like that? No, it's a shame. I feel like artists, we just don't talk to each other. I don't talk to people. We have artists come up here and say, yeah, how do you make friends? You don't see, you're just one make friends. I know. He been around people that like, it feels you up a bit. But you know, there's nobody you watch right now just like creative process and how they roll out their stuff and you're like, yo, like I see that. Like I feel like roll outs, yeah, but as far as like there, I feel like we don't get that much insight anymore as like studio sessions.

6:11I don't know grown up. I used to always watch like, you know, this artist in the studio making this. Like artists would put out documentaries of the making of their album in the studio. I feel like we don't get that anymore. So I don't, I don't know what people's process really is, you know, and I feel like people are private and protective over their process, which is understandable. But it's different. It's definitely different days. Yeah. I think that's it, I feel like we see so much in a process just on social media. Like I feel like I feel like everything is part of it. Well, yeah, but if you think about it, a lot of that is like they're by themselves in the room. You know what I mean? They're sitting there with the guitar, showing the process of being isolated in their bedroom right in the song. So I don't know. I mean, again, I think I think earlier, earlier on in my career when it was like, you know, let's get hammered in the studio and smoke weed. And that was easier to be around people in the studio because you're lowering your inhibitions kind of. But now it's like, I try to be sober in the studio. So with that, it's a little bit more uncomfortable if there was people there because like this

7:11is my place to get weird and confront whatever's going on internally. You know what I mean? So like I don't need judgy eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Are you an introvert? Are you an introvert? What'd you say? I think I'm an extroverted introvert. You know what I mean? Yep. That's me. Yeah. It's tough. Like I like people, but then I need an hour. And then I'm out, you know, why have you named the elephant and the rider? So it comes from this psychology term, the elephant and the rider. I got introduced to it via therapy. And I don't know if you guys are familiar with it, but it's incredible, man. It just like kind of just explains the relationship between your conscious system, which is the rider, kind of like your brain and then your automatic system, the elephant. Is that when you chain the elephant? When the elephant was chained? I don't know. I don't think so. Yeah. But it's basically like the world teaches the elephant, the elephant adapts and then

8:15the rider inherits the consequences. You know what I mean? So for me, an example is like, okay, well, earlier on in my childhood, my system learned to like scan for threats and watch everything super closely. And you know, because it's like, we need to be aware of any trouble that's on the way in order to feel safe. But like 30 years later, the rider in my adult brain is like, why can't you relax? And the elephant is like, because I'm doing the job that you needed me to do all those years ago. So it's like the goal to me is integration. It's not like control. It's not, you know, your brain or the rider telling the elephant do as I say. It's more so understanding like, okay. That is happening right now. And is this from before or is it right now? You know what I mean? If what I'm feeling is actually just decades old of information, then I need to understand

9:16that instead of like running around in present day time, trying to make sense of what my body is feeling when my body is really reacting to something from 30 years ago, it's thinking that that's happening right now. It's like a people do a traumatic experience. Yeah, it's traumatic. It's in your body. Yeah. It's interesting to hear you say that because I've watched a lot of your interviews where you talk about like your process with music and just throwing things out there and almost not needing to approve about people, just like things just do what it wants to do. It sounds like you're almost working backwards from that now and kind of releasing control a little bit. Even though you've always seemed a little free. Yeah. It seems like a different era of like, you're kind of open a little bit more. Well, I think I'm confronting things I never was willing to confront, you know. And I think to be honest, I think as much as I wanted to believe I wasn't chasing the approval of people I was, I kind of grew up with my dad being the authority and then I outsourced the authority to the public. Oh, wow. Okay. You know what I mean? I can see that.

10:17Like, I replaced my dad with the public. Yeah. You cared about what your dad thought, right? You cared about what the public think. Well, and I scared of, I was scared of getting in trouble with my dad. I was scared of being, you know, making a mistake to my dad. Now I'm scared of making a mistake to the public and getting in trouble by the public. Like, it's like I've made the public the authority, which makes sense because as a musician, you do unfortunately, like from an economic standpoint, live and die by do people like you and I. Yeah, validation. You know what I mean? Like, I've always said with sports, it's so finite. It's like, you can hate that NBA player. But if you average is 20 and 10. You can't say it doesn't matter. He's still going to still going to get a job. You know what I mean? You're not affecting his finances. But as a musician or public figure, it's like, if the public says we don't like you, it's kind of gets a little sketchy. Yeah. You know, I want to go back to the, the parable you was talking about the elephant and the right. Because there was another one called the elephant in the state. Interesting. And it was a baby elephant and the baby elephant was tied to a heavy stake with a very

11:19strong chain, right? And it would struggle to escape. But you know, it's too weak because it's a baby elephant. So eventually it just gives up. And then as the animal grew to an adult, they switched the chain with just like this little fragile rope and a stake. And it wouldn't move. The elephant never tried to pull away because mentally it was thinking about his past failures and it just thought escape was impossible. Wow. Wow. That's real. Maybe I should change the title. No, I like that one. That one's good. What did acting expose that music allowed you to hide? Hmm. Wow. Um, acting requires you to have immediate access to things that you're not immediately feeling. You know what I mean? Yeah. With music, I'm only going to record this emotional song because I'm experiencing these emotions right now. So I'm not like trying to perform it. Acting is like beside now.

12:21It's like, um, you know, so that was, it was a different level to answer your question and require me to have more empathy because I had to have empathy for what the character was going through. It didn't matter if I, Russell Vitale was scared in the moments like the characters and how can you empathize with where the character is in his story and all that. So all the acting class I was taking, they were just emphasizing empathy is a huge, huge part of it. I saw the movie long time ago. Yeah. I mean, I've got a glass here sometime for real. I don't know. Oh, she didn't see it with all of its like sound and everything. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I don't even know what cut I saw. But I remember your character was viewed as a troublemaker. Hmm. And people thought he was the one, he was the primary suspect when she started going wrong. Yeah. And it just made me think, have you ever felt like people decided who Russ was before actually getting to know you? Yeah. But that comes with the territory. You know what I mean? That's also like I have to take some accountability for that. You know, it's like if you want to publicly, you know, make these bold

13:26stances and just, you know, when you put yourself out there, you have to be prepared for some people to be like, I like it. I like it. I like this. I'm like a voice. I'm like your body language. I don't like anything. So it is what it is. You know, I think. You being the rage against the machine guy and then hearing you right now, I think any human can understand where you're, where you were coming from and where you're arriving right now though. And I saw you tweet that like you, you're trying to be more vulnerable with this project. Yeah. And I think that this is like a good side for people to see because when I did listen to you speak before, I always felt like your experience was like really jaded. But I didn't know you though. Yeah. I'm just like, yo, he been real hurt somebody. Over. But he makes good music and he has fans so he's going to be fine. Yeah. But it did seem like you were always like upset at like what was happening to you. Like you weren't successful in your own right. But you were. Yeah. No, it's a good point. Yeah. I was upset that I wasn't getting applauded the way I thought I deserved to be applauded.

14:26But that's because my own internal applause was not loud enough. You know what I mean? I couldn't hear myself cheering for me. I just heard, you know, the lack of a pause. Yeah. You know, I mean, and it's like, have you taken a second to clap for yourself at all? Or you just focused on who's not clapping for you in that early on was what I was focused on because I think I had a very like rigid idea of how I wanted my career to go and look like and all these things. And, you know, naturally, it's not going to go the exact way you see it. And then when it's not going exactly how you think and you feel like, you know, oh, anything I think that comes true. My mind is so powerful and I, but why isn't it going the way I want? You start, the really just begins to be just as massive conflict internally and externally. Yeah. At what point does independence become ego, meaning like, you know, I can do everything myself mentality that it would prevent you from accepting help that could probably take

15:28you further. I'm thinking about that because what you're saying about your experience on the movies. Yeah. Um, I think independence becomes ego when you are not honest with what you can actually manage. You know, I mean, I think a lot of people like they look at independence and they don't understand that it's like, okay, well, you're running the label. You know, I mean, like I run my label. It's just me though. You know, I mean, but for example, it's like, are you prepared to tell the artist you that like you're spending too much money? You know what I mean? I got to have those talks with myself of like, you're over a budget. But then artist me is like, you don't get the vision. It's like, you know what I mean? Like it's about the art. I don't care if it's making money. So you got to be honest with yourself. And a lot of people are not honest with themselves. They're not actually willing to put in that kind of work, which again, I don't, I don't knock anyone for like not wanting to be independent because it comes with having to run your own label, even if you're the only artist.

16:29So that's a lot of like some people is just not for them. So I was never, you know, and I was never like anti labels. I partnered with Columbia. I'm anti bad deals. I'm anti exploitative deals. I'm not anti partnerships, you know. So. At some point you got to look at it like it's a business you're trying to scale, right? Yeah. And I think the reason why, you know, I partnered with them. The landscape was way different. It was 2016. And I was like, I need to get on radio. And that was like, you know, that was still a thing back then. I know it still is now, but it was much more way back than it was just heavier back than. And after three, four years of it, I was like, well, you guys aren't doing anything for me that I can't do for myself. That's why I left. But I've made a conscious decision and I knew, I knew what needed to be done in order to just keep it going the same way it was going. Like there's, it's not like, oh, once I left the label, I didn't get on radio. Yeah. So again, but it's like you have to be prepared to do all the work that they were doing.

17:30So when I saw your interview you did with Daniel Wall, you talked about all the money that you spent on like music video. Yeah. And just in general, music. Yeah. So like at what point like is that still with the budgets? It's like hundreds of thousands of dollars on the per video. There is no budget. That's my issue. Oh, wow. Because I'm the artist and I'm like, there's no budget because I want to make what I want to make. But then label me has to step in at some point and be like, I think I'm spending too much money. But I never have those honest conversations like very rarely. So I have the honest conversation with myself of like, because I always think, yeah, but if I can't afford it, I should. And that's, you know, I've had to learn from my business manager. Like there's a difference between, can I afford it and should I afford it? You know what I mean? I can't afford everything I'm doing. Should I though? One of the figures was like 100, 200,000 dollars or something like that on the music video that you really believed in. I've done that a bunch.

18:31And it didn't like that wasn't even a song that took off from the project. Not at all. Yeah. I just wanted, I had a cool idea. I wanted to do. You know, that's right. But again, that was like, I remember being on Columbia and having those same kind of ideas and being like, I want to shoot a video to this song off the song number eight that nobody, you know, it's just my favorite. And they're like, no, we're working this one. And I would stop my fee. But it's like, they had a point like this one's making money. This is the fan favorite. We're doing this one. We don't care what you're saying. But for me, I'm like, but I'm the artist. I want this one to get a spotlight. You know, so being independent now, I can spotlight what I want to spotlight and also spotlight the ones that are obviously the fan favorites. I get to do both. It's just again, should I do both? Yeah. Should I shine the light on the song that nobody's really paying attention to? And obviously, they're as an audience, they haven't elected this one as the one.

19:31Should I just shine the light on the one that they're all streaming the most? But again, that is the freedom you get being independent. But that's also freedom is the blessing and the curse of being independent. Having nobody to tell me what to do is the good thing. And it's the bad thing. Sometimes you need somebody being like, you shouldn't spend that fucking money. Even the boss needs people around him for sure to keep them in line for sure. I'm at this point in my life now where I'm like actively telling people around me like, I want you to tell me what to do. I'm going to go with what I want. But you're here because I respect your opinion and your taste and your ideas and you have to challenge me. You may see something that I don't see. 100%. Give me direction, give me guidance and I'll take the path. But see, I think differently because you wanted to shoot the video to a song that not necessarily be everybody's favorite. But sometimes a visual will bring it to life and make people like, oh, damn, because that's what happens when I listen to like, join a Lucas.

20:35I won't like a song or whatever until he makes a visual to it. Then I'm like, oh, damn, it's hard. Now I'm listening to it. Yeah. There's artists like that where once you see the video, you're like, oh, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not the way around, but I get it. Yeah. It's just I've done it so many times where I've thrown 160 grand or 200 grand at a music video and it doesn't do anything for the song. And it's like, I get it. People listening and be like, wow, it's just about the art though. It's like, yeah. But when you're spending your own money, it kind of has to be a little bit about what's where's our ally here? I can't just keep being like, well, but at least I love what I made. But what's something you've learned about independence that contradicts everything you preached in the past? I think. No, I mean, outside of what I said at the beginning, which is, I think maybe earlier on in my career and times throughout even recent memory that I've maybe come off like you should be independent. And that was never really the full intention because it's nuanced again.

21:38It's like, you should be independent if you're prepared to do all the work that comes with it. And a lot of times I was kind of talking to my peers with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like I've talked to Wale a bunch about going independent and you know, French Montana, I helped him get his situation where he's at now. It's like, I was more so talking to my peers because I'm like, I know you'll have the money to do it. Mm-hmm. That's really where I was coming from. I was on some like, look, we have the money now. To go independent and still be able to put the song on radio and work it the way it needs to be worked. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's kind of who I was talking to. A lot of times, I think it was probably our last conversation. People were like, well, easy for you to say you have the money. It's like, yeah. Like if it doesn't apply to you, it doesn't apply to you. Exactly. Yeah. Like even how you broke down, like how much you drink would make if he were to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Independent. Right. Yeah. It is nice just kind of, you just go to the studio and everybody else handles everything

22:40else. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. What's your actual, I'm going back to, don't move. What's your actual, the most about yourself in this role? I went in there so nervous. So nervous. That wasn't what shocked me. But because I was so nervous, I didn't think I was going to do that great. And as we kept filming, I felt like I did pretty well, especially there was just, there was moments on set where I was like, I know I killed that. You know what I mean? You just felt it. Mm-hmm. And I remember just being so nervous and talking with my therapist about it. And I would like, this is what I do. I don't know if anyone else does this. But I would oscillate between two extremes of I have to be perfect and kill it. And then I would be like, oh my God, and start to spiral. And then why don't I even care about this anyway? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, how about the mix? When daddy used to always say to me, growing up, you're never as good as they are.

23:41You're never as good as they say you are. And you're never as bad as they say you are. Yeah. And that's always kept me in that great area. I can't operate with extremes. You know what helped me so going into it, my therapist was like, how about going into it as a beginner? Mm-hmm. The truth. And I was like, oh. I didn't realize that that was accessible. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because it was like, oh wow, they're not expecting me to come on set and be Brad Pitt. They know this is my first role. But I'm going in there with those expectations of myself just because of who I am and how I'm wired. But when I walked in as like, okay, I am a beginner, ask questions, own it, and do your best every time and take it serious and honor the opportunity meeting, take the acting classes, stay reading the script, don't mess your lines up. And like, I was dialed in, I was super, super dialed in, I took it serious, I honored the craft of it and the respect of it. And I didn't want to like be the guy there who's just trying to wing it. And like, of course you're a wing and a because you're not even really an actor.

24:42I was like, no, I really took it serious, but I think going into it with that beginner of mine. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. You just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. Their stories about what it takes to make it out alive, listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

25:48If you're a bookshelf and you're a for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro's Society on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages.

26:48On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Beniero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I try to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us, not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version of yourself. Whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

27:49Our town is small taters by most standards, right? But to the people who grew up here, it's everything. What happens when a quiet Tennessee town becomes the front line in a battle over the future of America? Developers with right wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land in the area for you. The first thing you see when it pops up is high nears and apple etch. But they weren't just planning houses. We need cities on a shining hill that exemplify and embody the Christian way of life. Stop right there. Is that normal? A podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment. God need that to rule. And decides to fight back. Do not use my hard work to sell your bull. They're not just opposing what's being planned for here. Our hometown is not a test too. They feel like they're standing in opposition to an entire administration. I guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to our town on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your

28:50podcasts. It's allowed me to be a sponge and it also allowed me to, you know, a little bit more of a celebrity to make mistakes. I will say though, you're not Brad Pitt, but you are a draw for this movie. Like when they asked me to watch it, it's like Russ is in it and T-Pain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, OK, I'll watch it now. You know what I'm saying? So there is so much pressure. He painted with so good. That was the first scene we filmed. I was like, you're so good at this. Yeah. How was it working with him? He's so cool. T-Pain is such a legend. He's so animated too. Like I know his energy was just so he's probably charming, funny, funny. Yeah, he's a legend. And it's fun. The movie is interesting too. Like your whole career philosophy is keeping moving, right? Like don't stop. But in this movie, the monster literally hunts you by vibration. That's what's called don't move. So have you reached the point in life where you realize that sometimes the smartest thing

29:53to do is to be still? Yeah, it's just a matter of like, can I do it though? You know, I think I keep my feet moving as a way to distract me from dealing with what's going on internally. Ooh, do you always say Stan Biddy, do you response the Trump? Yeah. Well, you know what's so funny? So brutal. It's so true. I feel like I've tried to regulate the anxiety in my body via productivity. You know what I mean? That's been my meditation. We understand? Yeah. It doesn't work. That's crazy because I feel like the more you're moving, the more there's moving variables which would then cause more anxiety. It just distracts my anxiety. It gives my brain something to latch on to. You know, like feeling up my calendar and to-do list externally allows me to ignore what's going on internally. You know, it's like a distraction for a second. And I just think moving that much and being that active and always trying to like, all

30:56right, well, what's next? What should we do? This idea, it's just, it's because there's so much energy in my body that hasn't been regulated that if I can just get it out that way, maybe I can finally feel relaxed and at ease. But no matter where you go, there you are. That's why COVID was so tough for a lot of people because that was the first time a lot of people had to just sit and be still. That's why Drinking went up and they just weren't happy with who they were. Yeah. Literally when you finally got to be still and looking at Mary, you're like, I don't like who I am. Yeah. But for those of us who was already going to therapy and stuff, we were ready for cold. Right. For those who weren't, hadn't done no work on themselves. Oh my God. Yeah. So, wait, you made this album while you were making the movie? I'm still making it. I didn't start making the album until after the movie. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was sick because I was dead like I'm going to snap out of character and then to, you know, no, I wasn't making anything while making the movie. I was so worked. Yeah, like every Sunday I was getting with an acting coach and going over the scenes

31:58we were going to do that week. Mm-hmm. And it was interesting because I remember at the end of the movie, um, Murr and the director were like, you know, applauding like, oh, he took it so serious. He took acting classes. I'm like, y'all gave me this role without thinking I was going to do that. Yeah. What was the logic here of giving me this opportunity? Because they probably saw how you were like, you know what I mean? That's what they said. They were like, no, we saw enough interviews and music videos, you know, because even me watching the trailer, I didn't get to see it. I'm not a specialist. Charlemagne and see me the fucking. It's not before I did. But, you know, this is a month ago. Oh, that's great. Um, but no, like they probably saw you and was like, oh, yo, we want him. You know what I mean? So some people like they, they curate roles around people that they see already can embody them so like, yeah. And the role didn't feel like too much of a reach. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, all right. I was like, it was like, it was Eiffelist. You and T. Pay were very. Yeah. Eiffelist, Eiffelist, too. Yeah.

32:58Yes, thank you. You know, um, Laura said something earlier, right? And it was kind of a lune to like that chip on the shoulder that we used to see from, yeah, from Russell. And it did help make you successful. Sure. Have you ever worried that that same chip could eventually limit you? Oh, it did. It did. It did. Yeah. Um, it's just not a sustainable fuel, you know, to keep trying to trick your brain into thinking the next plaque I get, I'll feel good, you know, I feel like feeling good is always just out of reach. You know what I mean? Feeling content with my life is always like just out of reach. And like you said, it worked for a little bit and it worked when the context was different when I hadn't blown up yet. And it was kind of like, um, logical to think that, well, yeah, you feeling good about your life is out of reach because you still haven't made your dreams come true, right?

34:00But once you make your dreams come true to keep prolonging fulfillment and keep putting it just out of reach of yourself is just debilitating. Yeah. I mean, you got to, that's when they tell you to be grateful for where you are. I mean, I say, if you can't be appreciative of what you have, God won't bless you with more. Yeah. I, man, I have a just unfortunate feeling that I know at the end of my life, I'm going to be so bombed that I didn't, that I wasn't here for so much of it. You know what I mean? Like I'm waste my days away sometimes in my head, you know, you like you just, just living in my head so much when it's like, well, yeah, because people who learn that being in your body feels unsafe. You start to live in your head, you know, and so that's kind of what this album again is talking about is, is just that path to integration, you know.

35:01It's great to say that sometimes people can believe in themselves so much that you'll, you'll be unable to hear yourself. Why? I don't know. I think it's a mechanism you develop because you're used to having built, you're used, you have to believe in yourself that much because if people around you either don't understand it, even if they want to support you or they don't support it, so you got to, you got to talk yourself through all these like hurdles and obstacles that are like unimaginable. Like all of us in in this room have accomplished things that people are like, how the hell did you do that? You've had to talk yourself through things that were like, this is not even like a real thing for people. But you'll stop listening to yourself when you actually probably do need that moment to fix still. When your body is literally telling you like, no, bro, something's wrong. You need to sit down and pick the time. You keep going, keep going. But I don't even know how you got through that though because like you didn't expect physically your body didn't start like responding to me like nah, something's not right. You got a therapist, right? Yeah, I got a therapist four years ago, but before that alcohol.

36:01I got a therapist. Okay, even now you burned yourself out. I almost went to the summer and about to end that summer, I was like, no. All that money you was making it was just liquid, no cocaine. Never cocaine. Oh, no, no. No, just alcohol and weed. How's it? Yeah. Yeah. Do you smoke weed still? I stopped for five years and then I started again recently, but I've been doing these like mushroom gummies, which is. Yo, everybody let a mushroom gummies down. They are ones, bro. They're doing the right dose. Yeah, they're kind of incredible. I've done them like three times and I'm like, all right, I'm starting to feel like I'm looking at my house for the first time. This is nice. Yeah, because I'm telling you because what it does is it makes you micro focus on things that you may have looked over. You know, it's like I'm noticing my life for the first time. And you go in a lot of times, people should have clarity. Pro-drug inter- What a turn of events for me in my life. Space medicine. Right. Yeah, exactly. Because I sure have clarity and sometimes that's what you got to do. You know, you got to share them for clarity sometimes. Well, you don't got to. I'm not going to say that. Sorry, kids, but it's cool. Yeah.

37:01I mean, I was nice. I'm interested. I'm just scared of myself. Do what it calls you. Yeah, I'd say the same thing. Like I would love to have that journey, but I'm so scared about what I'm called. It's cool. I'm just not picking up, but it calls. My phone is kind of denying. No, no, it would be a space you're in right now. It would be really good. I thought it would be, but I'm telling you, whatever you got, but I need to go to like a shaman. I do that. I'm going to get in November. Costa Rica. No, no, not going at least. But why? Like, how do you know when it's time to go on? It sounds like that's a joke, the shaman in LA. It's a thing. They'd just think all of them. They'd say all of them. It would be a place where they would come to all those people that want to be in touch spiritually and like, y'all should be around. It's on the outskirts, Ellie. It's in Cali, but it's like on the, yeah, but you with it, like, Joshua tree. I guess. I mean, it's not Joshua tree, but it's like, like, like, you say you like, yo, if I'm going to do it, I want to do it out the country. I want to do it somewhere. jungle yeah Like

38:02When I first did it that's what they told me like everybody goes to colds to reek in It was like why would you want your first experience? What if his horse you want to be in the jungle? Loki I want to be in LA I'm jumping on It like off Broadway warehouse on fucking Hollywood I Tell you something everything you're dealing with it's gonna be like shit on this table like you'll be looking at it like oh shit And yeah, it's like somebody holding you head like don't look away look at it. It's crazy. It happened let it go Yeah, I'm like there. I'll say this I Have been tempted to do this sort of guided heroic mushroom journey where it's like it's the same kind of thing It's the same cold. I'm just freaked out Me

39:02Yeah, you know you though But like you're doing that's why my fear is anchored in reality would change there regardless What changed in your life are like what are you thinking about like sometimes people get here because it's like okay I'm thinking about children or like like what what kind of reversed all of this for you like what was that like I don't know if it was a reverse. It was just an exhaustion Tired of okay, I can I say that tired of just Pulling myself, mm-hmm to the next thing to the next thing knowing that there's just Gunk I need to deal with you know, yeah, yeah, that's what I meant earlier about like your body doesn't physically tell you like Yo, this is not it like my body Physically be like you are fighting against what is already happening stop. I think I think it's one of my like Best attributes and it becomes maladaptive at a certain point, but it's my resilience. I think I just you know

40:03I'm resilient and my ambition is just Sickening you know, I think I can tolerate a lot more spiritually than most and emotionally than most I think because I had to I think during childhood I was the one that was kind of having to run around to everybody's room after a fight to make sure everyone was good Yeah monitoring everyone You know, I mean so like I think how that translates to be in an adult is Whatever I'm going through is not priority. You know Until now until it gets to a point where you're like I can't push it down anymore. Right. I got a deal with it You know, so I think when I first blew up it was there was so much going on that it was not easy to ignore but With alcohol and without fast my life was moving. It was kind of easy-ish and I think you're right I think during COVID that's really when it like ramped up for me and I didn't have it there I've never done I was like very anti therapy I mean in 2022 I got one and it was life-changing for sure But you said some earlier about how we've all you know like done things that only you know

41:06It's like people's wildest dreams. I also think it's so we're so lucky that I don't know when everyone started their journey But I assume young because I feel like if I try to start this now Oh, yeah Like I'm too aware Like when I was 17 Deciding to go after this. There's a certain youthful Yeah, you're not like self-survailing internally yet. You don't know what you don't know any of you don't care Man what yeah, when I say I can give a fuck right I ain't your fuck you I didn't even possess the ability We heard you just But all of our journeys at that time it's like you needed that even if now you look at it You like okay, I had to change just a change that like you needed that yeah at that time and They couldn't it wouldn't even be the same No, what it like you have also compounds you know, I mean so like yeah at 17 I didn't feel the weight that I do now that's because I was 16 years ago Mm-hmm like after a while it just everything you're dealing with and not dealing with compounds and so

42:11Then you growing up at the same time Yeah, the response of my I said mental is changing Yeah, do you remember that period when it felt like the internet Like genuinely enjoyed fucking what you like they did not let it was a entire rust camp My boy was just telling me like I think it was 2018 you reminded me he was like there was a list that came out I don't remember the list, but he was telling me yesterday of most hated people In the world and it was like an end of your list Trump was number one. I think Logan Paul was number two for like the forest thing and Then me And then came down and then came down I think KD was number three because he went to the warriors and then me and then came John it's like what it's nuts, but I remember that time vividly vividly what part of that criticism was unfair and what part did you eventually realize you know what I might have earned it Hmm The delivery of my message was harsh, but I stand by my message. Mm-hmm. I was just calling out

43:15glorification of substance abuse You know as we talk about to the wrong Oscar and mushrooms No, I wasn't wrong. That was a crazy time in rap where it was just like it felt like everyone was glorifying just Hard drugs being on them, you know, I mean yeah, you completely won that argument You look back at hindsight and look at all the people we've lost yeah, you completely won that on you Because that shouldn't be it wasn't nothing to be what I mean again me and my friends always talk about it's like you know There's something backwards going on in society if you come out and say like Stop doing all these drugs and promoting them and you're the back like I'm the asshole. It's like got it Okay, you know But again to me that was counterculture, you know culture was not Trying to hear that it was counterculture to come out and be like Xanx and lean is done and you guys are losers. I was really talking to white kids too

44:18Because I was that I was that like young white kid who wanted to try lean because I heard it in a rap song I was talking to them because I grew up with them. I'm like you guys are losers like I know because I was one You know, I mean people don't put you in the white rabbit category. You don't think that I'm white. I do I Had to look up like it's like Italian is to see I had to look that up because I was so so like I tell you and I white y'all like off white Yeah, you see isn't it. I'm not like Virginia white, you know But see but that's it made me look cuz I'm like It's kind of worries a white and I was like well, why where is the flavor? He trying to like grab where that come from So I looked it up and I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, they don't put me in that strange level Yeah, it's cool though. Yeah, I mean just like in the just in some gray area. Can you cook? No? Yeah, you white

45:20I mean like he like literally will like oh Passes from scratch scratch Yeah, you just No, I got money and got a chef. I know that's right. That's right You still need people to doubt you to motivate you No, not at all. No, that is that just doesn't even do anything for me anymore. I'm gonna think um Well, that's not true. That's not all the way true. I Strangers doubting me doesn't do anything for me. You know, I mean if there's people around me there's any sort of betrayal in my life that feels like It's based in you not believing in me anymore that You know when you feel like people who are around you, they just like they all of a sudden take Your association for granted and it's clear. It's because oh you don't believe in this anymore That feels that's a little bit more intimate is that healthy?

46:24Healthy but Whatever People Friends Okay, cool. Yeah, we said you said you had no friends. You try to find friends That's the only friend I got the same people the same to What's scary to you putting out an album and letting people judge your ideas and the music are being in a movie and people judging whether you can that The album it's higher stakes. Yeah, yeah, it's like that's what I'm supposed to be good at You know, I mean that's my thing. Mm-hmm. So About the same time when I just played in that celebrity big three all-star game I was so nervous because I was like well, I'm about to be judged on my performance of something I don't do You know what I mean? And so that felt like scary. Mm-hmm. It's like don't judge me for this thing come listen to my songs You know so I don't know I'll see how it feels when the movie's actually out. I feel like if this movie is successful

47:27I see Russ starting to invest in film. I'm working on mine Next Like you're the biopic. Yeah, okay. Yeah, not like the full-life story, but like, you know the juiciest part like the come up So yeah, oh, yeah, well listen Russ man always a pleasure the new movie don't move inside what September September 11th is nationwide. Yeah, okay flew to the suit to the Murray. What's my guy name Murray? James Murray. Yeah, my god James Murray And when the album's coming elephant in the ride I don't know I thought it was done and then I realized it wasn't just so much more going on internally than I anticipated Here you yeah, you unpacking a lot, man. I can tell yeah Well, you know, it's interesting. It's like Santiago was this excavation album the start of it and then wild my last one from last year was sort of this like Reconcealing with myself By saying you know what I understand I've been keeping myself locked in this cage Because I'm scared of the unknown I'm scared to get hit again. I got hit by the world

48:31All right, and now I'm scared to go out there again So let me unlock myself from that. Let me go out here and now the elephant the rider is like okay Well, it's one thing to unlock yourself from the cage and go back out into the unknown It's a whole other thing to feel okay while you're back out there. So I didn't anticipate Not feeling okay, you know what I mean? Yeah, because but that's what inevitably is gonna come with like Okay, you you're going back out to the unknown knowing it's scary and all these things So you're naturally not gonna feel okay about it, but you have to do it anyway, but Let's unpack why you don't feel okay and that's the There's a point where constantly creating prevents you from actually sitting with yourself. Yeah Yeah, how do you distinguish productivity from avoidance? Making sure that when I'm making songs it's To put it simply therapy exercises, you know, I mean like I'm not trying to just be down there like every once in a while like you know

49:31You just make some kind of mindless shit, but I'm trying to really use the the music as the place to Make sense of all this and get it out because I know I'm not the only one deal with it. I also think There needs to be this kind of content in the landscape What I got this is my last question because they just made me think about something what's the difference between making the music? I guess your fans want it becoming a prisoner of what your fans Expect for me. I feel like you might be in that space. No, I completely went away from that's where I was Mr Self-help book, you know what I mean now I'm like making therapy songs like Guess you're booked didn't work This word you wrote itself help but clearly you need to know Yeah, no, so I took a hard left with the brand identity which was scary You know, I mean with like when I did Santiago, which was like the first

50:31Venture into like kind of more introspective honest deeper music that is maybe sad or whatever But it was honest it was scary because I'm like well my fans know me for the impositive and manifestation and Self-help and click your heels and you can make it come true, you know like how's this gonna go over but you're leading not linear though No, I agree 100% that's what I'm learning with this. I feel like a backslide to be honest, but Yeah, I think this is like the maturation of Russ as an artist and human, you know dope. Yeah Well, it's Russ ladies and gentlemen don't move in theaters September 11th. Thank you for joining us. Thank you Yes, sir, it's the breakfast club I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life Exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files

51:32Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive Listen to the survivor files with the Elizabeth smart on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts On the new podcast solita We share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering the ride on his motorcycle I choose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita trading the pity for possibility Listen to solita on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality welcome home

52:33Pro society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island Deserve the same level of discourse each week We're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture with your favorite writers book talk creators and plenty of Overthought opinions Listen to pro society on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Our hometown is not a test tube 90 miles northeast of Nashville a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town The bellers with right wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill This is our town a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbilly's now did you listen to our town on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts This is an iHeart podcast

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