Killer Mom Trial: Inquiry Expected Into One Holdout Juror Before Day 7 Of Deliberations

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. We manage work, kids, appointments, bills, basically we keep everything moving. So if someone steals our identity, the last thing we need is another full-time job filling out forms and chasing down accounts. I mean, it can take months to restore ID theft on your own. So what can you do? You get Life Lock. Life Lock's Restoration Specialists will do the hard work for you. Because Life Lock truly protects your time, your name, and your identity. Get Life Lock at LifeLock.com and use promo code Amy for up to 30% off your first year. That's LifeLock.com code Amy. This message is sponsored by Regeneron and Santa Fe. Janokramer does not have direct experience with the product advertised. As the mother of a child who has eczema, I know how hard it is to watch her child struggle. It's frustrating trying everything from home remedies to topical prescription creams.

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3:18Toyota's easy choice sales event ends soon. We make it easy. Toyota, let's go places. These days there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. Your social media feed is packed with wellness trends telling you to cold plunge, protein max, and so much more. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? Health versus hype from the American Medical Association breaks it all down. We nominated host Trace Dominguez talks to health influencers, real people, and most importantly, doctors, to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Listen to health versus hype wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there folks, it is Friday, September 4th, and we are expecting potentially more fireworks right from the start of day 7 of deliberations in the Lindsay, Clancy, Triple Murder Trial with that. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes are coming back to court at 9. We don't expect them to go right back into the deliberation room and start up again.

4:23Got some business to tend to. Yes, this is all according to Lindsay, Clancy's defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, who when he left the courtroom yesterday announced to reporters that at 9 a.m. there will be an inquiry into the juror. He said that this juror has been identified as the juror, the four person was referring to when they passed that note saying that someone was refusing to follow the judges' instructions on reasonable doubt. Yes, so when we left, though, Robes, the last we saw an open court yesterday was the judge specifically stating that he was denying Reddington's motion to have this juror removed. We thought that was it and that's how the day wrapped up and day 7 deliberations are going to start. Robes, we've only gotten this from Reddington. The court hasn't officially said this yet. I don't think he just BS. So what is exactly going to happen? And that is a huge question because yes, when the judge dismissed the jury yesterday around

5:254 p.m. He said, we'll see you back here at 9 a.m. to begin deliberation. No, that's not true. So it seemed like everything was all systems go. And look, Reddington even acknowledged when he made this announcement to reporters that he hoped the inquiry would take place in open court and not in a sidebar because he wants the process to be seen by the public. He wants it to be transparent, but it's unclear if it's going to be an open court or an aside bar. And frankly, whether or not it's going to happen at all because we just haven't gotten an official word from the court. Why an inquiry, if the judge has already said, I'm not going to dismiss this juror. But do we need to look into what do we need to and then to call this person out in open court? Possibly robes. Yes, we won't get a chance to see this person, but everybody in that courtroom will, what's that going to feel like? Was that pressure going to be this does feel like it's developing into a situation where everybody is looking at this one juror and telling you need to get on board and vote this

6:26way or there are others are saying you need to hold firm. Robes, this is getting messier. It is. So it will be fascinating to see what happens at 9 a.m. because this jury has been deliberating for about 36 and a half hours over six days. That is a long time. We don't know if this dynamic has just developed this 11 to one dynamic or if it's been like this the entire time, it will be fascinating. Usually at least one or two a couple of jurors end up talking afterwards, especially in a case like this. There will be some persuasive journalists who will get at least one or a few of these jurors to talk and sometimes they're chomping at the bit. Sometimes they can't wait to come out and talk and get deals sometimes. That stuff does happen. Not saying that's going to happen, but Rob. Book deals, etc. But if they get the scrutiny that they know they're getting right now, maybe they want to come out and clear things up. Yeah, I think they might not know, but I think they have a pretty good idea of just how big of a deal this is.

7:28We've seen even we've been surprised at how much media has just been a costing Kevin Reddington when he walks out of the courtroom and it's been growing and growing each day. So those jurors. He should use a podium. Yeah, he should use a podium. He's actually getting dangerous. Yes, he is. When you saw a journalist potentially getting injured or feeling faint in the scuffles from whatever you want to call it, but those jurors as we now know after that lovely woman, John Light tried to take video of them. They exit from a different area, a different parking lot, but I'm sure they're aware when they pull in about what kind of media attention this case is drawing. And their families are telling them when they go home. Absolutely. That's just the way it is. And nobody's saying that's wrong or could influence how they deliberate, but it could. But you know what? Also, think about this. You're sitting here in New York, glued to the TV, fascinated and imagine though if that was your town, your community, Plymouth, Massachusetts.

8:28Now that has to be all anybody is talking about. And I also just have to think if they don't reach a conclusion today, there are plenty of different outcomes with this jurors fate hanging in the balance, whether or not they have to bring in another juror start to the operations over again. They can continue with the same juror. Will this juror be more willing to listen to the majority? All of those things are up in the air. But if for some reason there isn't some sort of conclusion at the end of the day today, Labor Day weekend, you're going off with family and friends, you're at barbecues, you're at parties. Everybody's going to tell you a joke. You're on the Lindsey Clancy triple murder trial. And they know it. Everybody knows. What is that situation going to be like? You can't tell me. You'd have to cancel your plans because there'd be no other conversation except for that one. Oh my God. Because everybody would be telling you what to do. How to vote. That's tough. And they can't say a word. And I bet they do take that seriously, because this would blow up the whole process at

9:30this point. So, eat. After committing that much time, that much emotion, that much energy, I would have to think these folks are invested in the outcome. And yeah, they don't want to do anything to screw it up at this point after all that time. So, yes, yesterday, yes, we ended up with fireworks at the end of the day. A lot of those fireworks were relayed to us by reporters in the room once they had. Again, yesterday, how the day wrapped up was them getting a note from the jury that said, they didn't say we're deadlocked. They said, we got one person in here who refuses to follow the judge's instruction. So this turned into an hour long situation in the courtroom where he brought in every single juror, asked them a question and sent them back. Essentially, asked them, can you follow my instructions, ask them under oath? Are they swear, yes, that should be the end of it. Kevin Reddington wasn't trying to hear that. No. And he was emphatic. He wanted that juror removed. He felt very passionate about the fact that if the four person sent a note saying this

10:30juror would not follow the judge's instructions, that's a clear violation. And he, that is the reason why there are alternates. And I think we, there were, there are six alternates. I didn't realize there were that many. So there have been six people who have sat through all of that evidence. And while they were listening to it, they had no idea they weren't actually going to be deliberating, but they have now been in another room sitting there for all these days. And just waiting to see if they too might be included in the deliberation process. So they have options. It's just whether or not the judge will decide to take one. What do you do here? What does this judge do? Robes this seems wrong. It feels wrong that 11 people can almost, they're almost telling the one that you're doing something wrong by not voting with us. That's not how it's supposed to work. I'm just saying it feels that way. So they report it. They report that this person isn't following instructions. What does that mean?

11:32Refuses to listen. Refuses to do what we think this person should be doing. Refuses, what does that mean? If this person has this vote after listening to this trial, that vote should count. That's supposed to be the end of it. All this roaps feels like pressure. They're being called out. Isn't that the whole point though? It's so fascinating our concept of what justice is and how juries work. And really it is the art of negotiating. I mean, you almost never have a unanimous vote from the onset. So there is a form of persuasion that goes on in these juror rooms. This is one roaps that we are getting a little more insight into while it's happening. I'm sure what you're talking. Yeah, of course. But I think we would all kind of agree that most trials we watch, we think generally juries get it right more than they get it wrong. That's how we feel. They usually get it right more than they get it wrong. Not all the time in some high profile ones. But roaps, it feels like this person is being talked about like they're doing something

12:34wrong because you're not letting us get the outcome we want. Yeah, but we don't know maybe this person said something very outrageous and outlandish. I'm saying what it feels like. I'm saying from what we know right now, there is pressure being put on one person because they won't go along with the majority. We don't know why that is. This person might genuinely roaps. Isn't it possible? It's genuinely has their conviction about this case. It's okay. It's supposed to be, but now Kevin Reddington is going after this person like they're doing something wrong. Get him off this person off so we can get somebody on the vote the way with the other 11. But that feels wrong, baby. That's what it feels like, but that's not what they're saying. They're not saying it's because he won't vote with us. It's because they're saying this person is refusing to follow the instructions. Say it out loud again. You know, I just don't know what that person said. No, but I'm saying, babe, what you're saying, you can say that all day long, but the point is they're not voting with us. They're not mad at this person because they're over there and just saying, I don't want

13:36to follow instructions. No, you're saying it's 11 to one and the one is the problem with us. That's what I'm talking about, Robes. What 11 people in there want to get the hell out for the weekend? They can decide, man, you ain't doing what we want you to do. Man, you ain't, we don't think you're following the instruction. It feels like they're ganging up on a one. I don't know it. Maybe they're in their calls and hell. I'll leave room for that. We also have to leave room for Robes just frustration and pressure now. And to the point we're talking about, get this person off so we can get somebody on that maybe it feels like we want somebody here who will agree with us so we can go home. Yeah, we just don't know what goes on that road. That part sucks. It feels that way. I hate that because it was my life on the line and I had one person in their willing to not send me to prison. You want to kick them off because you all want to go home? No, I want that juror. That's what I'm saying. It feels like we're building up to that now and it doesn't feel right.

14:39I don't know. This is the process we're watching our legal system at work. I don't want to see the sausage. Don't want to say as me, man. Just give me the verdict. But don't give me all of this mess. But you're right. My fate is a negotiation if I'm on trial. That is the whole concept behind a jury of 12. Yes, it is fascinating to see how it all works. I am interested in seeing how the sausage is made. I cannot wait to hear from these jurors when they come out. I can't wait to hear what was actually going on for all of these six days and now yes, a seventh day. I can't wait. Just give me the sausage, man. I don't want to see the process. I don't want to see it. What did you say? I keep. I kept asking you seven times this morning. What's the official 36? 36, 22. I believe is what it is. So we're talking about 36 and a half hours of negotiation. Now Rose, we first started this very early on after a couple days. We started giving comparisons to this trial with this long, this trial with this long.

15:39We thought it would never get as close to some of the longer deliberation times. Stay here folks. I'll tell you just how close this case is now coming to be one of the longest deliberations we've seen in some of the highest profile cases. We manage work, kids, appointments, bills, basically we keep everything moving. So if someone steals our identity, the last thing we need is another full time job filling out forms and chasing down accounts. I mean, it can take months to restore ID theft on your own. So what can you do? You get life lock. Life locks restoration specialists will do the hard work for you because life lock truly protects your time, your name and your identity. Get life lock at lifelock.com and use promo code Amy for up to 30% off your first year. That's life lock.com code Amy. This message is sponsored by Regeneron and Santa Fe.

16:40Janokramer does not have direct experience with the product advertised. As the mother of a child who has eczema, I know how hard it is to watch your child struggle. It's frustrating trying everything from home remedies to topical prescription creams, but when you're a mom, you never stop trying. If you feel like your child's moderate to severe eczema is an under control with topical prescription therapies, it could be time to ask their doctor about duPixen duPilliumab. DuPixen works inside the body helping to block a key source of inflammation that can cause eczema flare ups on the outside. DuPixen helps your child stay ahead of their eczema symptoms with clear skin and less itch, and it's not a steroid or immunosuppressant. DuPixen can be used for children as young as six months. Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions can occur. Get help right away for face, mouth, tongue, or throat swelling, weezing or trouble breathing. Tell your doctor right away of new or worsening eye problems like eye pain or vision changes, skin symptoms, joint aches, and pain or a parasitic infection.

17:43Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor. Visit duPixen.com to learn more. DJ Hero Bread has a new collab. I think people are going to want to hear about it. Yes, a twist of anti-ans hero bread pretzel bites. That's the one. 16 grams of protein is serving, and heroes breakfast bagels have up to 19 grams of protein, too. All right, hero. You have our attention. Go to h-e-r-o dot-c-o, that's hero dot-c-o, and use code Amy for 10% off. All figures per serving of hero bread. See nutrition info on hero dot co. This is Tamara Judge and Teddy Melon Camp from Two Teas in a Pot. There's a moment just before your guest arrives when your home stops being a series of rooms and becomes an atmosphere. The light settles, the air shifts, cedar, fig, and warm and considered moving through each space. Your favorite scent, that's what pure does, it turns fragrance into environment, environment

18:46into intention, a collection of beautiful, clean fragrances, all controlled from your phone. Choose your sense of place at pure.com. These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. And we've all gone down an internet rabbit hole exploring the latest health trends. Your social media feed is packed with wellness advice telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what health versus hype from the American Medical Association and I Heart Media's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy-nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel, and YouTube, talks to health influencers, real people, and most importantly, doctors to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters?

19:49Listen to health versus hype on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. Yes, we will round probably at least 37, 38 hours of deliberations here for this jury. If you consider the fact that, well, they go into deliberations sometime after this alleged inquiry happens. We have no idea how long it's going to take. We have no idea if the inquiry is happening, how long the inquiry will take, if it happens in public court, or if it happens, or I say open court, or if it happens in a sidebar, and then we don't know at what point the jury will then be allowed to deliberate with said juror or a new juror. Unclear. And again, is there a requirement, babe, once you throw a new juror in there, can the new one come in and say, hey, how y'all vote? You know what? I'm with that.

20:49Let's get out of here. Can you do that? One minute time. Oh no, they can spend 30 minutes and do one vote. Who knows? I mean, I imagine those jurors, those alternate jurors already know what their vote is. They've sat through all the evidence. So they already know. So they would probably initially just say, hey, what's your vote? And then it could be, look, that they all agree. And we could get out of here right away. There's just so many different possible scenarios, no way of knowing. That's crazy. Friday and it's Labor Day weekend. And so yes, there is going to be some just inherent pressure for that reason alone. Wasn't diddy up against the 4th of July, right? Yes. They got out of there and did. Yes, they did. Was that the day before the weekend? I believe it was. Damn. Okay, so here we go. So maybe we'll see that I didn't think, Grobes, the one we kept comparing to Andrea Yates. This was the comparable trial. So many people, oh, how long did that one go? Yeah, it went 12 hours over three days. Yeah, that seems a lot more reasonable.

21:50Long, long pass that now. The one that I think I didn't realize that Bill Cosby's trial took that long. Six days, but 52 hours. So they were willing to put in longer days in this jury. I was surprised, honestly, yesterday, after that note and after all of that drama, to send them back to the deliberations, to deliberations. And they only stayed in there for like 20, 30 minutes. Like, I would have, then it must have meant that that dude didn't, or I say dude, we don't know if it's a woman or a man. That's ridiculous. More likely statistically, it's a woman, but I don't know why I think it's a man. That's so funny. Oh, my goodness. Why? I don't know. It seems like something a man would do. What? Stick to his opinion? That's something a woman would do. That's so funny. I don't know why. Not be pressured by anybody. I don't know. Oh, see, I just think a woman would cave more like, okay, I'll just go with the group. Oh, yeah. I don't know. With other women for a one woman to stand out against the other women and the men, that

22:54seems like more like a man thing to do. Okay, stay with me for a while. Now you've young fascinated. So it's possible. There are nine women and two men going against one man. Yes. Four, there are eight women and three men going against one woman. That seems, is that the scenario? Yeah, and I could be so wrong. I fully, I don't know why my gut tells me it's a man who's a holdout. That's amazing. You're gut tells you it's a woman? I don't know. Overwhelmingly though, there is going to be a collection. A majority of women are making their case against this one person. So it's eight or nine women. Yeah. Exactly. That's a lot to go against. I don't know. Yes, there can be infighting initially, but I feel like we tend to coalesce. I don't know. I could be wrong. Let me ask you this last thing. I did not just plan to discuss this with you. What? Who is more likely to cave to the pressure of eight or nine women, a man or a woman?

23:59Another woman. Another woman is more likely to be. I see what I think. That's why I think it's a man. It's a man in there. That's why I think it's a man. Look, I could be so wrong. It's just, I don't know. Do you have a feeling? Now that you're talking about it, this sounds like a man. Ager against, I ain't going to listen. You can't tell me nothing. Exactly. Kind of everything. Or somebody's setting their ways in older person perhaps. That was so. That was my other thing. I either think it's a man or it's somebody who is older. Do we have a racial breakdown? I saw it somewhere. I saw someone say that they're mostly white. That's all I got. Mostly white. Because the Massachusetts Boston area, it's predominantly white Italian Catholic. That is the majority of the makeup of that area, demographically speaking. But I do think it's either someone who is older or it's a man. Okay. That's going to be end up being like a young black woman. Right. What the hell? Yeah, or it's somebody who has a very different experience or. That's so interesting. We could have done a-

24:59Life lens that they're looking through. We could have done a whole episode of it. That is fascinating to think. Who is it? Which one is it more like me? I'm an adult. What kind of a person? Yeah, it feels so strongly and holds firm. Like, I'm telling you, I feel like that's why you might feel so protective of this person because if there were to be a holdout, you would be that person and you would hang a jury if you disagreed. You could not be convinced. If I felt that way. If I believe, yeah. Yeah, I'm just saying if you felt very strongly in your beliefs, you're not somebody who would go over to the other side, I absolutely would. I think I could be convinced. I'm like, okay. You've heard it from me a million times. I would be sitting in the corner of the room. I could do this all day. Exactly. I could do this all day, guys. And I think that's why you're so, you feel it's funny how fiercely, passionately, you are protecting this person's right to be different. And yes, because that's the system. It's the system. And the system also allows for a parent pressure to be applied. But that's what I'm saying. That, okay, all of that.

25:59Yeah. 100% on par with. I'm saying a narrative is now developing. That suggests they are wrong in what they believe. That we need somebody on there who is in line with the rest. We need somebody on there. But it's almost like politics. We all have to be in line in this room. If not, kick you out and talk about you. That's the part. There's a narrative that's developing. That suggests this person is something beyond just having an opinion. Yeah. Oh yeah. What Charles Manson, 42 hours, nine days. Ronnie Keene cops. That was seven days, 40 plus hours of deliberations. The Karen Reed trial, again, we've been talking about. This one wrote, that was 22 hours over five days. I didn't think there was a chance this jury was going to get close to the Michael Jackson jury. Oh, it's surpassed 32 hours, seven days. Yeah, so we shall see what the final count is. And we can only hope that maybe today is the day there is some sort of outcome.

27:01Otherwise, we got away till Tuesday. And those poor jurors got to cancel all their barbecue plans. You have me fascinated now by whether it's a man or a woman. There's a whole lot. I didn't think about it before we started. Now this is all the thumb of my folks. We are keeping an eye. Keeping an eye on our feet. We will be watching it. Nine o'clock will update you when that news comes. But we appreciate you always sticking with us. I'm T.J. That's Robes. We will talk to you very soon. We manage work, kids, appointments, bills. Basically, we keep everything moving. So if someone steals our identity, the last thing we need is another full-time job, filling out forms and chasing down accounts. I mean, it can take months to restore ID theft on your own. So what can you do? You get life lock. Life locks, restoration specialists will do the hard work for you. Because life lock truly protects your time, your name, and your identity.

28:01Get life lock at lifelock.com and use promo code Amy for up to 30% off your first year. That's lifelock.com code Amy. Hey, T.J. I have something that might get your attention. Well, just saying that, obviously, you got my attention. All right, Hero Bread has a new collab, a twist of anti-ans Hero Bread pretzel bites with 16 grams of protein assurving. Stop anti-ans pretzel bites, 16 grams of protein. Okay, yes, you have my attention now. And that's not all heroes break this bagels, have up to 19 grams of protein, and they also make sliced bread, tortillas, buns, and noodles. So let me get to the right. Hero has found a way to rethink a lot of the carbs people were already in love with. That's right, exactly protein fiber and zero to five grams of net carbs without giving up the foods you actually want to eat. It sounds like a pretty easy swap. It is. So check it out at heiro.co. That's hero.co and use code Amy for 10% off your order.

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