Leading recruiter lifts lid on how all of the big deals get done in the AFL

0:00join me in the studio and you will hear him on some podcasts coming up on 3W on our YouTube channel. The 40 Fix Right Throughout the Trade Period. A man that's been there in Dunlton, Seen It All when it comes to recruiting and drafting from the Sydney Slans to the Brisbane Lions, Kenyne Beatson is with me in the studio. Hi Kenyne. Hi Matt, thanks for having me on. Are you looking forward to the trade period coming up and even doing a few podcasts and bits and pieces? Yeah, the podcast will be interesting. I'll look forward to watching on from a distance in terms of what's happening during the trade period and free agency period. That will be a bit different rather than being involved in the nitty-gritty of it but it looks like it's going to be a pretty active period and what I've noticed already is a cheer goes by is there's more and more players prepared to put their hand up and seek a trade when they're actually in contract for the following year which when I first started that just didn't happen. So what do you put that down to and I've got a couple of theories on it

1:02and my theory is that it's just the way that young people are these days like in any industry like if you talk to a young person they move jobs a lot. You know back when I first started working probably when you first started work the idea is when you get a job you get a job and you get tenure and you stay there and you build trust and you're there for a while but I think the culture around working has changed. Yeah no problems I think the AFL industry is heading more towards a lot of the more international sports where players in contract or clubs that have players in contract will move them on. So clubs are doing it as well as they're trying to position themselves to bring other players in but you know they might have salary cap reasons why they've got it that might be Lisbots they might be over-indexed in a in a type-off player so they've got to move them on and the player themselves might not be happy with the opportunities they're getting at the club that they're currently at. Despite having a year or two to run and a keen to move on for other

2:04opportunities or they realize that they're getting towards the twilight of their careers they don't see success coming in the short term with the club that they're at and they want to try to play finals and ultimately play in a premiership team so they're looking to get out and go to one of those clubs. If you've got the question for Ken the air happy to take your calls one double three six nine three we do have the two bottles of de bordoli to give away anything about because he's done these deals these trade deals over the years and draft and all the rest of it one double three six nine three and I've got a lot of questions for Ken the we get a lot of people would re-up and go you know get the talk back call up why why didn't we get why can't we get sack butters you know we've got money and we've got draft picks why can't we get sack butters so I want you to just take us behind the curtain a little bit about when these big time players come out of contract how far out a club's looking at you know recruiting this player it's not just like oh yeah a couple of months before these are long-term players are they? 100% so most list managers

3:09would be catching up with player managers at least two three maybe four times a year they would have their own lists excel spreadsheets however they keep their information now on when players are coming out of contract and when they're going to become free agent whether it's unrestricted or restricted and they'd be having conversations with those player managers to try to work out are they going to be restricted or unrestricted and that has a fair bearing on whether how easy it is to get the player but yeah they'd be looking at the the big-name players probably two years out really yeah sometimes that happens a little bit later when you're a bit shocked that a player's putting his hand up to get out but normally you will have identified a player and the wheels will be in motion two years out and you're talking to those players then or is it just the conversation you're having maybe with their managers I think that all varies you most of it's with the managers but in this industry because it's

4:11still fairly insular really IFL football it's not a global sport yeah you will have had some dealings with those players previously you know when they were getting drafted you might have had some terrific conversations with them and their parents about the prospect of being drafted to your club so it depends a little bit on the circumstances yeah sometimes you've got people that are in their circle relatives employees or ex-employees that you know and you'll stay in contact with them from that but yeah you try to avoid the direct contact and to be fair most player managers wouldn't like you going directly to their players they'd correct the the darkies about that yeah okay and at what point looks okay just say your I did let's use that but as an example your identify them two years out no doubt Western Bulldogs and Jalana probably a half stack of clubs identified him as the potential target to come back to Victoria so there's that lure because he yeah he's probably made noises that he wants to come back

5:14home someday so two years out at what point are you meeting with that player probably during that year that it's coming to a head yeah okay during during the season you would sit down and that would that be the list manager only or would that be either it would vary from club to club and again that might be who's got the better relationship with that player or the player manager yeah is it the CEO is it the GM of football is it the coach or is it the list manager or head of list strategy whatever the titles are so it can vary and the first sort of meeting might be a couple of them yep okay along with the player manager you want to have the player manager there and when you identify a player and obviously you know Zach about us we're taking him as the example he wants to come back to Victoria but are you looking at his motives as well as to why he wants to move clubs yeah well you'd have some history on it like Zach for example is it's well documented that he was a Bulldog supporter he's from the

6:19Western suburbs out at Dali a part of back of smart he's still keen in that area I believe when he gets back home he loves going back to Dali and being involved in the Dali football club in the Ballarat League etc so you'd be working on all of those things that you think might be a bit of a hook yeah and and obviously you know Mordys the player maybe wants to win a premiership wants to move for money I mean there's different Mordys as the white players actually want to move clubs isn't there yeah I think most of the time with the restricted free agents are they're the ones that are in the top 25% of the clubs salary cap either way they're going to get very well paid whether they stay or they go to whatever club it is because you can't get them to move unless the money is at a level that the club isn't prepared to match if you've got a question for Kenia here one double three six nine three Kenia basin is with me formalist manager of the Sydney Swans Brisbane Alliance he's done these deals before one double three six nine three we do have the two

7:21bottles of the board Lee to give away we'll get the your calls in just a moment so the other question that people will always ring up and with Geelong for example so we're still talking about Zack butters how in God's name Ken Geelong end up with Zack butters with Toby Green and we've say Roman Marshall all three of them at once like how can that actually happen well the first thing is it might not happen Marshall still contracted Toby can go as an unrestricted free agent because he served longer than the nine years so he can just move I think the attraction of Geelong is there a well-administered club have been for a long time they've got proven success they're regularly playing finals which is a real attraction for these players I mean their competitive beasts the money is part of it no doubt about that they want to be well-reconcured for their performances and they will be no matter where they're at but the

8:26lure of playing in premierships is great the lifestyle then that way obviously must be an attraction as it has been for Geelong Cameron and Patty Dangerfield etc to go back there and then there's other stories you hear about Chris Scott's flexibility with the training programs as they get older and older and older and that's got to be an attraction for the players I'm sure so there's multiple things there and just in terms of salary cat take us behind the scenes like you're gonna bring a big plier game and you did it with Buddy Franklin for example right you did that deal with Buddy Franklin going from Hall formed to Sydney the sometimes have to tap a few other players already on the shoulder and go look we might have to have a look at your contract here because we want to bring in this player who's going to be a difference maker and good very well wouldn't deflag we need to read your contract are you comfortable with that is that those conversations had behind the scenes yeah they

9:26are so players will move money back in contracts to allow another player to come in if they're sold on the idea that that player is going to significantly improve the chances of playing finals and in particular winning a premiership and there are times when players have to be moved on and whilst I wasn't involved in the trade last year trading scenario with Sydney last year quite clearly with Charlie Kuno coming in Oli Florent and Will had to go now they were still in contract for another four years I think it was each of them but they had to be some movement there to be able to fit it into the cap so it's never straightforward and there's some particularly difficult conversations being held at times and this is where it's different to the American sports where American sports you can just be shipped off and you tell you're going there's no if but still maybe it's you're going with Trader Jew where in AFL the AFL PA have got more power and the if a player is in

10:30contract he has to agree to loop it if they didn't those two players just mentioned had no intention of going that could just stay could they they could they could do some pretty twist discussions and in the end there aren't too many that have stayed that I know of because in the end they're convinced that moving is going to be better for them both where they're going to play what position they're going to play the amount of game time they're going to get get paid not so much financially because the terms have to be met by the club that they're going to anyway yeah so yeah they're not pleasant conversation so once great conversation here with can you might take a quick call take some calls after the break one double three six nine three Craig has got a question hi Craig and can you please can you um at what stage when a player is still got a lot of work to do is that on their contract and is it a move to another club and it's a go show and what stage do they cease to play pain from

11:33previous club when they're the start of playing for the new club I remember of Brody Grande in case important when you move from college I think Melvin and he's still been played by calling with the following season Craig you broke up a bit there but I think the question was can he you know other clubs play pain money or the club that they're originally at pain still playing the salary of a player that's moved to another club yes yeah they can that can happen no doubt about that the AFL changed the rules on that about two years ago where if that's going to be the case that's got to be well documented and signed off on by the CEO of the club to say yes we agree to these terms that this is the percentage of the contract that we will pay ongoing so that that does happen to enable deals to get done yeah and we for groundly for example what they might be he was originally with Colley with their Melbourne then Sydney maybe all three clubs are paying a bit of money to Brody Grande yeah quite possibly I mean it happened I believe I wasn't part of

12:36it but with the Adam Trillaw scenario going from Collingwood to the Western Bulldogs because quite clearly Collingwood had an issue with their cap net guy was almost thrown to the wolves try to get that under control by the end of the trade period and that led to a lot of the this new ruling by the AFL that it had to be signed off on before they'd approve the trade because that was still ongoing after the the trade had been lodged and gone through exactly who was paying what yeah and the percentage retiring today in fact Adam Trillaw after a great career we'll take a break more can you be some coming up one double three six nine three if you've got a question can you former list manager and recruiter for Sydney and Brisbane he's done all these deals these all these behind the scene deals if you want to go behind the curtain go to question for Ginear and how these deals get done one double three six nine three we'll take some calls out to the break and talk about a few other players that right here on sports today welcome back to sports today Mac Grandland in the chair for Jimmy Barthill

13:38can you be seen is with me in the studio taking your calls one double three six nine three former list manager at the Sydney Swans Brisbane Alliance he's done a lot of these deals and it's just fascinating to go behind the curtain with that can he hey can he explain for our listeners and again some might know some might not the difference between a restrictive free agent and an unrestricted free agent yeah sure well there's another free agency as well which is the delisted free agent but the ones that are more pertinent are restricted and unrestricted so a restricted free agent no player becomes a free agent until they've served eight or more years at their club yeah in one spread of time a restricted player has to have spent that amount of time and be in the top 25% of their salary cap of that club right so the process then is the club that's trying to lure them to them puts an offer financial antenna to the management that will go to the AFL that contract offer goes

14:45back to their original club and they have the ability to match the offer or not if they elect not to they usually just take the compensation they get from the AFL with a draft pick depending on where that is but if they do match it the player has three options one he can stay at that club because they've matched the financial terms and conditions or two the clubs have to trade for him and try to strike an arrangement if that can't happen the player ends up having to put himself into the draft yeah and that's where it gets because those terms that have initially gone to the AFL the club can't change that offer yeah the club that's trying to lure them to them they can't go back and say I will whack another hundred K on that now so that's where the Zach butters one is out at the moment yeah so they will get the compensation pulled out late yeah if he left yeah and then how do they then also

15:47get a deal done so how do you get both the compensation and the deal they can't that won't do both right I'll take one of the other so Jason Crippson his team we'll be looking at well who are they what what what's their draft hand look like what capacity will they have to get better picks in if we force it to a trade or are we better off just to take the compensation now for them unfortunately it looks like it's down between Jolong and Western Bulldogs from what I'm hearing both of them are fairly late in the in the drafting order so yeah that's that's not a great outcome for port now the other one sorry and unrestricted yeah so there are players that aren't in the top 25% yep so the club that they're currently with they have no ability to try to match that offer they just go they just go and then it's up to the AFL if the financial terms are at a level they might get some sort of compensation but that's when they start drifting out to third rounders and stuff like

16:51that which really aren't much and that's Toby Green this year he's a mystery Toby Toby Green so GWS won't have any ability to match that yeah and then there's the D-listed free agent and that's where Sydney we were able to get James Jordan yeah because during COVID clubs had to cut their list down and despite being a premiership player JJ became one of those players because he'd been D-listed and put back onto their rookie list but there was a technicality because he'd been D-listed he could just go right so we were our work with his management about eight months out to to get that one done now the other we'll get to your calls in a moment um Cody Walker I want to ask you about him now Cody Walker is Andrew Walker's son father son Tadad is possibly the number one draft pick yep but Carlton the rules have changed around getting a father son or academy player this time around so Carlton are going to give up a lot to try and get him is that right yeah well it's

17:52all what you have is the draft value index so each selection is worth a certain amount of points and from selection one down they drop off fairly quickly even in the first round so um um Carlton will need to be able to match the amount of points that the bid comes in at the selection yeah plus I think it's 25% discount on that so they've got to have those those picks so uh they've already got two first rounders so they can't go like for example go and get pick 50 you know 50 60 and no they've stopped that yeah right so you're actually going to give fair value yeah for the player yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay to get that okay so and they would have been doing that work for a while Carlton yeah yeah and now we're probably running rubbing their hands together sort of midway through the year thinking well yeah we've got this under control but uh they got going under Josh and yeah ended the year fantastic playing in a couple of finals so it won't be as

18:54easy now but I'm sure they'll they'll find a way to get it done uh Peters give us the bus has a question how I beat up yeah go it's good I remember I think you'll say how players have got a choice I think it was a Hawthorne player with a Trent Crowe that at least in a grand final he got locked out or he broke his ankle then he woke up in the hospital saying it was being traded when he was playing a Hawthorne was it Trent Crowe or something well he did get traded to free manual and then he came back to Hawthorne I can't Peter sorry I can't remember the exact uh terms of that trade why it happened or whatever but yes he did get traded to free manual and I think yeah they do get a choice but sometimes as you said maybe it's uncomfortable maybe they get told that the current club they're or you're not going to play senior four of you or we're going to pick kids ahead of you and that kind of thing and become time comfortable really to stay doesn't it yeah and quite often you find that it's um sensible to look at the offer because they might just have one year to run on their current contract with the club yet the club that wants to um get them

20:00on their list might be offering a three or four year contract yeah so you'd be mad not to look at it you don't have to mention names and clubs but if some clubs harder to deal with than others oh 100% yeah it's a it can be like playing cards a little bit um some guys get quite angry and um I wouldn't say irrational but at the end of the day I always had a philosophy you just had to understand I was getting paid by Sydney yeah and they were getting paid by their club and they were trying to get the best deal that they can so don't don't let it get to you um but the further it goes on um yeah it it becomes harder and harder and some clubs will wind it right down to the last minute and the deal will get done as we saw last year with a couple of yeah especially with players being in contract yeah I think Tom I'm trying to think Tom Papley wanted to get the captain at some stage when you're at Sydney and obviously you guys wanted to keep him um and so

21:03sometimes clubs just don't want to trade and then on the flip side of that um uh uh uh Estndon I think um Joe Danahue wanted to get the Sydney but Estndon was steadfast they did more to trade him so yeah those negotiations must be tough where you you got the player desperately get out and come to your club or vice versa and you've got the other you know the club you're dealing with they're like no way we're not willing to go so those that's a very tough negotiation yeah there were three clubs involved in that of course there was um sauce running Carlton Adrian D'Doro running Estndon and myself handling the negotiations for the swans um we wanted Joe but we weren't prepared to match what Estndon wanted for him um and we were always on record with sauce saying well this deal for Pap's won't occur unless we get Danahue and in the end Estndon weren't prepared to move and then it came down to the last couple of minutes really and then in the end we just said well that's off and then he went the following year to Brisbane didn't he yeah he went the following year to Brisbane and had played played in the winning

22:07side against us um and perhaps it stayed and been fantastic for us and is very happy that he did stay now hey canine it's been fascinating catching up and we will hear you um right throughout the trade period on uh YouTube on threadw's YouTube channel on our podcast with Laura Spurway right throughout the trade period looking forward to that canine thank you very much for coming in thank you canine Beeson format list manager the Sydney swans and Brisbane joining us on sports today