Mirta San Martin

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2:28blue at urgent care kit.com slash blue. But Dominic Carter show entertaining and informative on the Red Apple podcast network. Right now we're focusing on the NYPD and an organization that's called police organization providing peer assistance. We just spoke with the director live, retired detective Tom Hovegan. And now we're joined by Mia Tursan Martin. She is a psychologist for the organization who began volunteering shortly after 9.11. Thank you so much for joining us live. Well, thank you so much for having us and being so much attention to this. Really appreciate it. Absolutely. So tell me what is your area of us a specialty in terms of dealing with law enforcement law enforcement officers suicides as well as 9.11. It's kind of a mixed bag because it is.

3:33Certainly, you know, when I was doing my clinical training many years ago, I was working in the VA hospital system. So I around the time when we were dealing with Vietnam veterans and and understanding the impact of PTSD. So that kind of was a springboard for this particular interest for me and a preparation for when the call came and and me and also the the team that I was involved with basically with clinicians out of a hospital in Staten Island. That's how we got called in and that's how I became involved with pop up. Okay, and so do you still doing 9.11 related work? Oh, yes. Well, I'm still active with pop up, of course. But 9.11 is not over. You know, it's it's obviously not over. There's still lots of families that are out there that still don't have any finality to this experience into this process. And so I work both, I work both sides of it. I mean, I work with the, you know, the victim survivors and their families, but, you know, also working with cops and firefighters

4:38because the process is just not never ending. You can't, you know, there's no conclusion to this. You know, it's if you were there, if you're doing this kind of work, this is something that stays with you and certainly has shaped the shapes one. And so when you say the process as a psychologist, help me and the general public understand exactly what you're talking about. What I'm talking about, and we were kind of lucky. I hope that doesn't sound too strange, but, you know, as horrible as 9.11 was and continues to be in terms of the after effects, the ripple effects of this, you know, it gave us an opportunity, provided an opportunity for us to get a foot in the door in terms of being able to talk about it. And that's what I'm talking about the process, how people were affected, how people coped with it then, continue to cope with it now. And Tom mentioned the retirees and the retirees suicide rates. You know, there are cops that were very actively involved

5:42in all aspects of 9.11 at that time, and ultimately end up retiring at some point. And if they did not get any kind of assistance or support, when a cop leaves the cop job, they take that stuff with them. When they're on the job, there's more structure, there's more sort of support. Once you retire, it becomes much more complicated because you're kind of out there on your own. You don't have the definition of being a cop so much. You don't have the support that comes from reporting to a precinct and reporting to a command. You're kind of out there on your own. So this is the great thing about Papa is that it's from start to finish their support there for the police officer. So I asked Director Hovegan about the organization that you're talking about, police organization providing peer assistance. I'm going to ask you the same question as a psychologist. When I mention the organization, what does that mean to you?

6:43What that means to me is saving lives, being able to give back to the cops that put their life on their line, not only the life, you know, and the career of it, but also their well-being in responding to day after day to these very difficult calls and difficult incidents. Papa to me is a future and a hope for the cops who have to do this very difficult job. It's so you're telling me and it breaks my heart, it really does. You're telling me 25 years later, you're still dealing with officers as it relates to 9-11 and some that have never dealt with it before, but now that in retirement and they have more time to focus, they're dealing that they're having flash points and flashbacks now, is that what you're telling me? That is correct. Even if it doesn't get to the level of post-traumatic stress disorder,

7:46you're still that traumatic response that you have to that event. And while you're on the job, what you're doing, what you need to do, you don't think it's kind of an operations mode. Once you retire and you leave, there's less of that, unless you come and call us, unless you're familiar with Papa, I know that there's help for you there, but yes, absolutely. This is not something that gets resolved. You go somewhere, you talk about it for a little while and it's gone. Even when you learn to manage your response to it and how it's affecting you, this is a lifelong process. If you want to have any kind of quality of life for yourself, if you want to be able to feel good about the work that you did and that day, you need to be able to have some kind of way of integrating that in the rest of your experiences. So it doesn't become the thing that impacts, negatively impacts the quality of your life and your will be. How do the officers from your perspective? So they've finished their career and maybe

8:519-11 bothered them while they were on the job in terms of their personal life, maybe it didn't. And now they're retired. What are some of the signs that you see as a professional? Do they, do they, do they cry out for help or, or is it destructive behavior? What happens? It doesn't have to go to the point of being completely destructive. But you know, people that go through a change, the behavior is different. They're the stuff that they used to enjoy doing, now that they're not enjoying doing anymore. They tend to withdraw. Unfortunately, sometimes there's that self-monication aspect of it too with alcohol or other substances. That can be a real warning sign, especially if it's a change in how you were before. That's what we look for. It's a kind of change in how the person is presenting, how they're interacting with their families, their loved ones, their friends, their network. You want to see if there's any kind of a change in how how these things are going on in their life. Because that's the first indicator that maybe not

9:53that they're breaking down, not that they're crazy, nothing like that. It's really just an indicator that maybe we need to pay a little more attention, focusing a little more on taking care of yourself. Understand that there's help out there. People you can talk to who understand, who speak the same language that you do in terms of the work that you do and what you've been through. Do you deal with officers that have been in traumatic situations? I'm just throwing this out as an example. The fatal shooting after the stabbing in Times Square just this week. Do you deal with situations like that as it relates to officers? Yes, yeah. That's part of the work that I do with Papa. We bring the cops in who have those experiences, whoever's on the scene, whoever had to respond. They bring them into the Papa office and we do what's called a critical incident stress debriefing, which is really it's not an operational debriefing. I know there's a lot of different definitions of debriefing, but this is really a way of having a discussion about

10:54what they went through, what they went through together, how they're being impacted by that experience and what we can do to help them move forward, to put that into some kind of perspective, to be able to manage that. A lot of times there's a disconnect between how you're feeling, how you're thinking, and a lot of times they don't understand that what they're experiencing is actually related to the event that they get exposed to. Now we are chatting live with Mirtha Sand Martin, who is a psychologist. She began volunteering with the organization that is police organization providing peer assistance. I only have a few minutes left here. Before I let you go and then I'm going to turn it over to the public on the next side, on the next side, after the commercial break, here's the question that I have. You might not be able to answer this as a professional. Why does the public think that these incidents are Hollywood that these cops will shoot someone

11:56and it's a perfectly legit shooting and that they just go home and honey what's for dinner and everything's fine. Why does the public think this is Hollywood? When these officers, when they're involved in a shooting, something like a 9-11, it's something that stays with them for the rest of their lives. Why does the public see it differently? You know, and what you're saying is absolutely true. You can't shoot somebody without being affected by that experience. Even if you know it's part of the job, even if you know it's a legitimate response, what you did was correct and justified, you still were involved in the shooting of a human being. But Hollywood, I mean, we grew up with the shows, with the cowboys in Indian and the shooting and it was like the that glamorizing of that kind of experience is very misleading. Right, misleading. And you know, in the public just

12:57thinks, well, you know, well, why didn't you shoot the gun out of her hand and why why didn't you just tackle her and take the knives away from her? You know, all of this nonsense. So, are you also dealing with the police suicides? We have two issues here. We have the 9-11, but we also have the suicides that are back up again. Do you deal with that as well as it relates to police? Yes, I do. More in the sense of providing the opportunity in these groups to really talk about this, but the thing about Papa is they have a phenomenal program for working with the cops who are suicidal, who come in through their program. They are all kinds of services they provide within the organization for cops who have identified themselves as being at risk. And that's great. I want to try and get in a call with you before we're done. Let's go to Dan, line four, Long Island. Dan, it has to be short and brief. Go right ahead. I just want to thank you for what you're doing. It's a great thing. Over time, firemen, I got a lot

13:58of that. I got some friends that took themselves out. It's really difficult to go through and I just want to say thanks. Well, thank you, too, for bringing this up. And also thank you for the work that you do. Okay, let's go to Mary Beth, Long Island, line five. Mary Beth, go right ahead. Mary Beth, are you there? Okay, Mary Beth is not there. Let's go to Mark and Manhattan. Mark, it's got to be quick. Go right ahead. Yes, Dominic. Yes, Dominic. I was a civilian volunteer at the Food Preparation website on John Street. And I would get I was there from about September 14 until they closed it near around Christmas. And I would ask the the workmen that came off the pile. They were covered in white dust and they had their helmets on. What exactly do you need? And there were two things that were strange, but it's a human interest story. They asked for

15:00beach type flip flops and also sample. Okay, okay, sample. Okay. Okay, so Mark, I got a step in because I got to toss to a break. So, me or are those things that you heard dealing with law enforcement? Is it really some 9-11? Absolutely. You know, sometimes what people need is just some basic, some of the basics, that compassion, that, you know, that somebody makes sure that they get something to eat or they get something to drink or that they're being taken care on. The thing about that kind of crisis and disaster response, that kind of situation is that we forget that we just need sometimes just the basics to know that there's a compassionate presence there that can help us through that. And handing somebody a tissue or handing somebody some food to eat after they've been on that pile for 15, 16 hours. Let me tell you, that's very significant. Very significant help. And so, I'm out of time, but you've been doing this now for what, 20 plus

16:01years? Oh, no. What, with Papa? Yes. And mental health, almost 50 years. Almost 50 years. And how can the public contact the organization, Papa? 1-800 cops, cops. Okay, wonderful. Thank you for, and bless you for what you're doing to help our first responders. It is noble. And I thank you deeply for what you're doing on the first, on the front line. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. And thank you for bringing attention to the, to the amazing work that Papa does. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you. Hi, this is Dave Roberts. Heading into summer without a medical emergency kit, that's a risk. Summer colds can linger and getting sick on vacation can derail everything. That's why everyone needs a medical emergency kit. It includes doctor prescribed medications to treat common and serious illnesses. So if you wake up sick, at home or on the road, you already have what you need. It's like having an urgent care and pharmacy at home. Say $45 with code

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