Thomas Hovagim

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2:02The Dominic Carter Show entertaining and informative on the Red Apple podcast network. Joining us live right now is retired NYPD detective Thomas Home Again. He is the director, the director of a organization that is doing God's work. It's called police organization providing peer assistance. Mr. Home Again are you with me? Yes sir Dominic I am with you. Thank you for having me on. Of course man it goes without saying for what you're doing. I want to break this conversation up into two parts. 9-11 but also police suicides NYPD suicides. You know it's a story I've covered for years and it seems like the numbers are rising again on the suicides before I get to 9-11. Is that accurate that they're again in the headlines and that officers are again taking their lives and alarming numbers?

3:08Yes we just had two or three and two months. We had one in July and two recently in August. Yeah. It's very hard to hear. So okay so 9-11 and your organization you are the director of a police organization providing peer assistance. When I say 9-11 tell me how your organization is involved and exactly what you do 9-11 related. Well during 9-11 I was actually a detective and a detective squad so I wasn't with this organization at that time. However I can tell you my predecessor put together a task force of police officers trained, pop-up peers and clinicians and very quickly they obtained a couple of offices down by the Federal Reserve and what they basically would do is talk to cops coming off the pile. They

4:08would debrief them. They'd be a clinician in the room and pop-up peers that are well trained and they talk about what the days events were that day whether they found the body whether they found body parts the sites the smells just to get them talking about it because if they would have bottled it up it would have been detrimental in the long term. So to be able to talk about it the same day they were there or the same weeks they were there really benefited them in the longer. Of course and I mean you know 25 years later and I want to zero in on your organization and if you have a question for a retired detective Thomas home again the number to reach him reach us live right now is 808489222 and coming up at the bottom of the hour we'll talk to his colleague Murtus and Martin who was a psychologist for the organization who began volunteering shortly after 9-11. Okay so you you were started for police suicides or 9-11 related.

5:12Well the organization was started in 1996 because in 1993 and 94 and 95 we had 28 members of the New York City Police Department take their own lives in three years it was it was a big deal was on the front page of every newspaper it was on the six o'clock news like wire New York City cops killing themselves and record numbers so it was actually a PBA member trustee who came up with the idea why don't we have something separate from the NYPD where cops can reach out and get help without the department knowing because back then they they were stigmatized if you reached out for help for mental health or anything like that you know you were stigmatized I'm happy to say the NYPD today is a lot different you know we're just another branch they've come a long way in the way they handle mental health alcohol and substance abuse issue we're just another avenue but we're separate from the NYPD although we only work with NYPD officers we are separate and

6:19confidence and you know folks don't understand they you know and I know I'm weaving in and out of suicides and 9-11 police suicides but folks just don't understand the public they say well why don't officers get help and to your point and things have changed we have to give the NYPD credit they were stigmatized what that meant was if you went and said you needed help please correct me if I'm wrong it often meant that you may have lost your gun you were placed on modified duty and that meant that for these officers that needed over times in order to make end meet ends meet the overtime was drained up it became a nightmare if you came forward and admitted you needed help so how have things changed now I guess I'm talking on the suicide front where when officers need help they can get it without being without having that labor on them as being stigma stigmatized yeah like I said bad thing they took away your gun they put you in the precinct to answer the phone and everyone knew your

7:23business because you know you know they knew you didn't have a gun right right right now nowadays we do that we do a lot of outreach for suicide awareness we even teach a class here at Papa about suicide to full day class that officers can take along with their families and friends we welcome everyone and basically we teach them the signs and symptoms of people who might be suicidal and what to do about it if they are suicidal more importantly okay now they say that suicidal what do we do now so that's what we we teach them here on the NYPD averages about four suicides per year unfortunately and we want to get that number down to zero and how do we do that we do we do a lot of outreach we go to different precincts we address promotional ranking members of the department meaning sergeants newly promoted sergeants lie tenants captains things like that and we talked about it we get it out in the open nowadays a lot of people are seeing clinicians you don't

8:27have to hide in the closet anymore if you're seeing someone it's it's it's it's very brave thing to admit that you do have an issue and you do want to talk to someone and that's what we try to enforce and that's why we feel the number of suicides has gone down because that stigma was removed it's okay to ask for help you know make you a brave person and so you you you are the director of this program and again it's called Papa which is the the police organization providing peer assistance so 9-11 related what are some of the stories that you have heard I know a second hand but what are some of the stories that you have heard that police officers that were down at ground zero at that pile some of the horror stories that they came off I mean telling colleagues of what they had just witnessed I mean the smell alone had to be horrendous yes there's no smell like it I will never forget it myself and I will never forget the struggles I had I still tear up

9:32every time I go down I was not able to go down there till two years ago really it's been that long I just couldn't do it however for the for the guys coming off the pile and the girls coming off the pile you know there was a lot of tears in those debriefing rooms a lot of them broke down a lot of them saw clinicians privately because they did not want to break down in front of their fellow officers so business really went up for Papa there was a lot of referrals to clinicians there were were a lot of side conversations during the debriefings when they were over an officer might stay behind and say hey I really need to talk to someone about this I think by doing those debriefings that Papa literally saved lives because imagine if they came off the pile and had nowhere to turn to talk about what they've just seen they just filed it up and went home came back the next day and didn't saw the same things that you need an outlet you need to deflate you need to

10:32empty your glass no doubt about it and I didn't see the things that you officers saw but on my side and I've told this story in television at the time we were in the live truck and I had not one but two officers that almost went into full nervous breakdowns in terms of 9-11 as we were trying to cover it live and they had to get grief counselors down there immediately not only find a way to get us food but to get us grief counselors hotel rooms it was mandatory that if we were covering the story that we had to sit down and talk to the counselors and so I found myself covering the story but also trying to consult some of my colleagues that I was working with that just couldn't handle what we were reporting on 25 years later what those through your mind well you know it's funny you know you had grief counselors we were doing debriefings okay that's great

11:34but when they get in that room how do you get them to talk cops do not like to talk about what they've seen in their career so now you're at 9-11 you bring them all into a room 8-10 of them at a time you have a clinician in there and two appear officers you have to make them so comfortable that they can talk and so safe and so secure that it's okay to talk and that's why our peers did such an amazing job along with the clinicians to get them to open up that's the key you can bring them into a room and they could just be closed-minded and give you yes or no answers but to actually crack their shell is very difficult and one of the best things that we do and it makes me come to work every day makes me feel good is we do debriefings here in the office and when a cop is involved in a heavy incident maybe a shooting a gruesome crime scene maybe they were shot out maybe they shot somebody we'll bring them into a room with two peers and we'll just talk about it there's questions that we have that were designed by clinicians

12:36and we just get them to talk and once one of them starts to talk about maybe nightmares they were having whatever it may be they all start to talk and when they from when they come in to when they leave the office you can see after they're done talking and being debriefed it's like a rock is lifted off their shoulder you can physically see the change and the most important thing is to make them feel comfortable secure that whatever they tell us is not going to come back and haunt them or bite them in the butt to get them you know disciplined or something like that that is probably the one of the best things that Papa does on top of our 24 hour help lines and Dominic this day and age we have a lot of retirees suffering out there from 9-11 we had four suicides this year alone of retirees that killed themselves and that's that we know of because unfortunately New York City PD does not track retiree suicides they know that the retire retiree might have passed away

13:41but they do not know how they passed away so we find out through you know social media friends or friends things like that retirees the the helpline call the call line we doubled from last year we had 105 calls into the helpline in 2024 last year we finished with 205 and this year we're on pace to break the 205 mark on the retirees the retiree helpline what I want you to do we're chatting with live with Thomas home again a retired detective he's the director of an amazing group that's doing God's work police organization providing peer assistance for off for assistance this as there are a number of suicides this year this as we are days away from 9-11 we're going to take a break and we're going to come right back continuing our conversation and bring in some of your telephone calls

15:04and we're going to come back and bring in these deals won't last visit vans or Albertsons.com for more deals and ways to save this day for Alberts heading into summer without a medical emergency kit that's a risk summer colds can linger and getting sick on vacation can derail everything that's why everyone needs a medical emergency kit it includes doctor prescribed medications to treat common and serious illnesses so if you wake up sick at home or on the road you already have what you need it's like having an urgent care and pharmacy at home say $45 with code blue at urgent care kit.com slash blue urgent care kit.com slash blue

16:11the dominant Carter show on the red apple podcast network and we are chatting live right now with retired NYPD detective Thomas Hovegan who is the program director for a wonderful organization titled police organization providing peer assistance so so little time left here sir before I get to your colleague murder sand Martin she's a psychologist who began volunteering with the organization shortly after 9-11 but there's much controversy over who should be at the event this year what should take on all of this? that's a tough question to answer obviously anyone who was down there should be welcome to come friends family victims of course will be down there as far as you know the powers that be the executive government people really not my decision you know I do have my own thoughts but you know it's hard to say anyone that was involved

17:24obviously should go down there if they want to and should be welcome to reflect there'll be a lot of people staying away because they can't go down you know so it is what it is it is what it is dominant you know I just want to mention that we are a 501c3 organizations we are a nonprofit yeah we are a nonprofit we operate on a small budget if anyone would like to contribute please go to our website which is poppanew York.org it's spelled out p o p a spell out New York dot org we are always welcome to receive donations because we do operate on a small budget you know so thank you police officers and I want to have you repeat that before we're done in another minute or two police officers face very tough situations and you know you don't just go home and forget about this stuff recent example the shooting just the other day the mentally ill woman these are tough situations correct for anyone

18:26extremely tough extremely and it weighs heavy on those officers' minds no question how could it not? it's it's it's really horrific again one more time I say 9 11 and you say what 25 years later I say the biggest catastrophe in in the country on our own soil I say you know people are still suffering not just retired NYPD cops firemen but the general public who was down there the law sub family the law sub family so much suffering is still going on here I have to step in thank you for joining us shop vans and Albertsons for fresh savings every time you shop this week at vans and Albertsons get fresh boneless skinless chicken breasts for one ninety nine per pound limit ten pounds and locally grown grape re cotton candy grapes are two ninety nine per pound with digital coupon plus 24 packs of Canada dry or seven up 12 ounce cans are four ninety nine limit one with digital coupon

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