Nepal flooding: Two workers rescued from tunnel

0:00You're listening to News Hour from the BBC World Service in London, I'm Gary O'Donohue. Now after nine days of devastating news from Nepal and Tibet, finally some hope for those searching for survivors. That was the dramatic moment when the first of two workers were rescued from a hydropower tunnel, more than a week after the flash flood that has killed more than 1,200 people, leaving thousands more still missing. In a video released by the Nepalese authorities, one of the men, Kabir Mahajan, was shown being hoisted from a hole in the ground as bystanders cheered, then lowered onto a stretcher. His colleagues, colleague Sanjay Shah, was brought out on a worker's back, his face still caked in mud before army doctors fitted an oxygen mask and checked his vitals. A third man was also brought out though he was already dead.

1:03Speaking outside the hospital, the wife of one of the rescue men described seeing him for the first time. He didn't even recognise me, he just said things like, what happened to me and where am I? And he didn't say anything else. He's currently in the ICU, he asked for water so I gave him some. Now he's recognised me again and nodded his head. He has an injury to his leg and hasn't been able to speak much. His body has turned yellowish because he wasn't getting enough oxygen. The two mechanical engineers were rescued from the tunnel that Trishali 3A hydropower project in Rasawa. The Hudra Shaman is a Nipat Nepali journalist. He's been at the army hospital in Kathmandu where the two survivors were taken. More than 40 people were trapped there and rescuers were doing their best to rescue the

2:05people alive from that point and finally the good news came today. Two mechanical engineers were rescued from that hydropower plant. There are reports of a few more people being rescued there and a few dead bodies were also recovered there. This came when the entire country was in big shock after this catastrophic flood. This is like a kind of miracle and everyone's watching the rescue. It does sound like a miracle. Has the hospital said how the two men are, what their injuries are, how long they're likely to be in hospital? No, we are totally restricted from going inside and have spoken to a few family members. I spoke to the dad of Sanjya Saha. He told me that his wife is still not recovering from the pain. That's why she couldn't come to Kathmandu. I've also spoken to the relatives of the other guy and they were super, super happy just to hear the news that he's alive and brought to Kathmandu.

3:05So how were they transported to the army hospital? Did they have to be brought by helicopter? Soon after the reports of the rescue, the army helicopters were sent there. There was a medical team, they briefly treated them and then they were flown to Kathmandu. What are the hopes for finding other people in that same tunnel alive? We've seen some reports that perhaps there are another 39 people still alive. Is that the same tunnel, is it the same area? Yeah, the several tunnels. There are several tunnels and I've spoken to one of the tunnel engineers and also a lawmaker of the ruling party and he said there was little chance of rescuing many people alive from there because the rescuers have entered through the tunnel and they saw everywhere but they're not finding more people. It seems they were outside the tunnel and the floods swept them away from that point. And obviously the last nine days have been a terrible devastating tragedy for the country but has this news brought some hope for people in the country?

4:09I can see smiles on the faces of many people gathering outside this hospital. They are super, super happy. And we voiced over that interview with Budra Shama because of the poor quality of the telephone line from Nepal. Well, earlier today my colleague Anne Soys spoke to Arnold Dix, president of the International Tunneling and Underground Space Association who is in Nepal. Now this is absolutely squirrely up the middle of miracle territory. I mean we're big teams of people are working on this. We've got men with shovels and their hands digging underground in tunnels to people on computers comparing satellite imagery with what we're getting from helicopters and historical drawings. And in the end a good dose of miracle and that's what you're witnessing right now. And digging for tens of meters of meters I can see on the BBC website that they're estimating that they dug through around 50 to 60 meters of debris that had blocked the tunnel.

5:17Just how complicated is this rescue effort? So I mean I've been doing this all my life. There has never been a more complex series of rescues than this and they're all really hard. So what we're dealing with here is a unique never done before rescue. In the history of the planet we've never taught this off before because the explosive power of what came down that valley mixed huge boulders with mud. And so we had we didn't even know where the power stations were on day one. So when the government reached out my first task was to try and help figure out where they even weren't because they were gone. Because they had them covered. Yeah and blown away. So all the surface structures had been blown up. So they were gone and then on top of that tens of my I haven't measured it exactly but a huge amount of material on top of that.

6:20So the entrance to the tunnel that your listeners or viewers can see where we're looking down into the tunnel where these men are calling up through the mud. That was on the side of a hill. That that that was an underground that tunnel that entrance was up a hill. And so on on the vision on the CCTV as as the synonything was coming down the valley we see people running up the hill and seeking refute in that tunnel with it being above them. And now with so much of that avalanche material we're having to drill down below. That's that's the scale. But this is extraordinarily difficult. The army the army have just done the most incredible job on the ground to be delivering this. You're having to drill down but also blast. How delicate is that? Well I mean we never do blasting normally when we're doing a human rescue because you

7:20end up blowing people up. And yet we're doing blasting here because we've got no option. Because we we're confronted with rocks bigger than cars in our way. And so the only way we can get through is to blow them up. And so they've shown incredible restraint and an engineering competence to be able to blow them up without blowing up the people we're trying to rescue. And also blowing them up in a way that doesn't destroy the structure that at the moment is giving us protection as they're crawling just the crown of the tunnel towards the power house. Just extraordinarily complex. Obviously families are very hopeful right now after their rescue these two hydro power workers but realistically what can you say about the prospects of finding other survivors? Absolutely. Up until just a few minutes ago we were dealing with computation theory.

8:21Our best professional judgment and just good old fashioned hard work. Now we've got two people out. We've got the first ever proof that this technique can work and it's going to spur with spurs on to try even harder. This is the best news. Absolutely the best news that we could have at the moment. Other agencies that said we were moving into a recovery mode. We we've resisted that and actually said for us underground this is not recovery mode. We're in rescue mode and we're in kerborescu mode now. And that was Arnold Dicks. Well voters are heading for the polls in a regional election in Saxony and Halt in Germany this weekend with all eyes on whether the far right alternative for German or AFD can translate a substantial poll lead into an electoral breakthrough. Recent surveys put the party above 40% well ahead of Chancellor Friedrich Merz's

9:21CDU taking a clear favorite lead in the election. If the AFD does come out victorious it will mark another major breakthrough. Nevertheless that may not be enough for it to translate into a win which it can then turn into a governing coalition because of the firewall that the other parties maintain around doing business with the AFD. Or joining me on the line now is Anna Suleveina Shassani the financial times Berlin bureau chief. She's in Magdaburg in Saxony. So it's a pretty commanding lead at the moment for the AFD. Yes absolutely over 40% as you said. And if some of the smaller parties do not make the 5% threshold for representation in Parliament they may it may be enough for them or it's actually very like within striking distance of them to secure majority and absolute majority of seats in Parliament.

10:25Now they have won state elections before but not been able to form administrative administrations. Does this feel different this time? It does feel different because winning a state election with 30% so become coming first with 30% is you know they did about two years ago. It's different from coming first with 45% or nearly 50. I mean they are now really aiming for absolute majorities in regional elections. That's a big big change and yes it is for many years they have been excluded from quotations and the murder of Chancellor has decided to also to exercise them but that hasn't worked and so we can see that in those smaller regions, smaller states they are managing to mobilize voters, non-virtus, producing non-virtus, voters from all established parties to really get near a majority, an absolute majority.

11:25What are the chances of the CDU, I mean Vydrish Merce is not very popular, what are the chances of him if you could tell us of forming some kind of coalition if the AFD doesn't get an outright majority? So that's the interesting thing is that if the AFD falls short of the majority in a way it places the CDU, Merce's CDU in a very difficult position because if it wants to retain power while ostracizing the AFDs to maintaining the firewall, it would have to probably talk to the anti-capitalist left, the link which is the success of the Communist Party under the former East Germany. So for the CDU for a lot of CDU members and officials it is quite well, it's really, it's not something that they like at all. So you could create a lot of frictions. Just very very briefly, more state elections coming up, more tests.

12:29Absolutely, two more after this one on Sunday, one in the city state of Berlin where the CDU is actually now voting, you know, the state party is going to do power probably and the AFD is also pulling strongly as well as the radical left and also in the north-eastern state of Mecan Booth Apartment at the end of the month. Anna Sellevein Shassani from the App for lunchtime, thank you very much. Now, there's news of what appears to be a significant medical breakthrough that could raise hopes for people waiting for kidney transplants. Doctors in the United States say a genetically modified pig kidney functioned inside 66-year-old Tim Andrews for almost nine months, the longest period of time on record. The kidney was used as a temporary bridge while the patient waited for a human donor organ, allowing him to avoid dialysis going to hospital every week.

13:32It could mean that animal to human transplants could help tackle the global shortages of donor organs. Earlier I spoke to Dr. Leonardo Riella, who's the medical director of kidney transplantations at Massachusetts General Hospital, who led the team. I began by asking him how big a breakthrough this latest finding is. We passed through a major milestone for two reasons. I think number one, we had a pig kidney working and performing all the expected kidney functions for more than nine months allowing our patient to be off dialysis. And second, we were able to transition this patient from a pig kidney to a human kidney. Those are two very important milestones that were able to pass. This is no ordinary pig kidney. You had to do some genetic modifications to the pigs themselves to begin with, correct? Correct. These are very unique pigs. They are cloned and they have genetic edits to improve the compatibility between the

14:39pig kidney and humans. Now this is a kind of bridge technique as I understand it while you wait for a human kidney to be available, a donor kidney. What problems did you encounter after you've implanted this kidney? It did eventually fail, didn't it? Correct. Yes. The immune system of humans do recognize certain things in the pig that's slightly different than a traditional human transplant. So I think they're learning in terms of trying to understand what are some of the differences between a human and a pig kidney and how the immune system recognizes that. And second, how can we tweak? How can we change slightly our anti-rejection meds in order to be able to control that in the long term? So I think we're sort of getting in the right direction and we have another patient who just passed the 9 month mark with the pig kidney, so these are very exciting findings so far. And for those who don't know, give us an idea of what this means in terms of the patient's

15:45quality of life for that period of time while they're waiting for a donor kidney. So the biggest issue that we have currently in transplantation is the organ shortage. It's a crisis because we know that with patients with kidney failure, the best treatment option for the majority of patients is to get a transplant. And unfortunately, the majority of our patients do not have access to organs in a timely manner so they have to remain on dialysis. And dialysis is an incredible technology and innovation that keeps patients alive, but unfortunately, it is a treatment that cannot reproduce the function of a true kidney. So you go to a dialysis center, you filter your blood three times a week for three or four hours. And the consequences of that is that many of these patients that stay on dialysis, they start developing cardiovascular disease and where cell comes and unfortunately many die

16:45or even become too sick to become a kidney transplant while they're waiting for their promised kidney. Do you now feel that this is something that can be scaled, this is something that will be suitable for a lot of patients in this position? This is what we hope in the long term that we are able to provide xenotransplantation as an alternative treatment for these patients with kidney failure. Our ambition is that with a big kidney, we may be able to do additional genetic edits to potentially create an invisible organ once transplanted. And this would overcome the second biggest challenge in transportation is that patients require to take anti-rejection meds for the rest of their lives in order to prevent rejection. But now imagine that by doing these edits and creating these organs that could be invisible to the immune system, these patients will not require to take anti-rejection meds in the long term. So this would be really game changer.

17:46That was Dr Leonardo Riella. Now in Britain, the right-wing populist party reform UK gathers in the English city of Birmingham today for its annual conference. It should have been something of a showcase for a party that's transformed itself from insurgent outsider into a serious contender for power. But the conference opens under something of a cloud after undercover television documentary makers raised questions about the parties handling of financial donations and prompted the resignations of two senior advisors pending an internal inquiry. Our correspondent Rob Watson is at the conference. And I think the leader now, Dr Farad, you're speaking now Rob. He is and he's describing what happened as a little local difficulty carry, which is clearly trying to rather minimize it because to cut a very long story short, essentially a commercial television company here had a 30 minute investigation and what it suggested

18:46whether it's undercover reporting was that there were two very senior reform officials who seemingly were trying to break election law by allowing foreign money into the country towards reform. And that is very much not against the law. But Nigel Farad just has been saying local, local difficulty carry and that it was all caught up by far left activists, although he did say that the two people who have now been suspended were in judicious at best. Yeah, I saw one other member of the party describing it as a hit job as well. So they acknowledging something went wrong here or not acknowledging that something went wrong? Both. So I mean, firstly, they're trying to deflect it by saying, look, they were out to get us. They were left-wing activists. They've done the same thing in the United States and been condemned by the U.S. Congress for that. But I mean, clearly Nigel Farad saying that these two senior aides to him had acted in judiciously and the fact that they have been suspended does suggest that reform accept that if you

19:46look at this film and anyone who does Gary will be, well, certainly if their reform supporters will be kind of wincing at the way in which these two officials seem very keen to hoover up money from a rich person, what they thought was a rich person in the United States. Is there any evidence that some of the sort of policy announcements that reform have been announcing recently, welfare, severe, significant cuts to welfare, that they're sort of cutting through that they're shoring up its support? Because it does have a significant support. Oh, very much. I mean, to put this into context, I mean, look, this wasn't ideal for a form. Some months ago they were leading in the polls. They had lots of momentum. And then these questions about the party's finances, about Nigel Farad's finances have dented their poll lead. They are now no longer in the lead and have slowed their momentum. But that shouldn't let people not forget that there is a reason why the populist party of the right, and that is that they focus very much on the issue of immigration. They focus on the issue of the idea of welfare, leading to be cut.

20:49On a very important cultural issue, which we also heard for guest speaker from the National Rally in France, by Adelaud Sayain, that is the sort of sense amongst many voters in this country that we're always doing our country down, that we're not proud of our history, that we're ashamed of who we are. So that stuff cuts through. But I mean, the problem with questions about finances, Gary, is that it does have an awful lot of people in the electorate saying, oh, my goodness, all the politicians are the same, they're all in it for themselves, all got their finger in the till. So that's the way in which these stories are rather damaging for a party that wants to be insurgent and different. Yeah, if you're the outsider, you want to seem different to the rest, don't you? Thank you, that. Okay, Rob Watson there at the Reform UK Conference in Birmingham. Thank you very much. You're listening to the BBC World Service. This is New Zour with me, Gary Adoncue.

21:54Welcome back to New Zour. In a moment, we'll hear from the US State Department on why the recent oil deals signed with Venezuela is a good deal for Venezuelans and for America. We'll also hear what ordinary Venezuelans make of it. But first, as mass protests continue across Spain, the enclave of Souter is grappling with a rise in the numbers of sexual assaults, authorities there say 23 such cases have been recorded since the mass influx of migrants. The figures could be much higher according to Souter's chief prosecutor, Shereen Al-Kras reports. In a shelter in Souter, women and children sit under covers trying to shield from the hot sun. There are some of the thousands who crossed into Souter at the end of July. Most of them told the BBC that they left their homes in search of work in Europe. But for some, reaching Souter took a darker turn. Sarah, not her real name, was sexually assaulted while sleeping in the forest.

22:55We've changed her name to protect her identity. A married man was next to me and touched me in inappropriate places. I tried to defend myself in that situation. Moved away and made sure not to go near him again. I didn't want any trouble, as there were drones overhared and soldiers nearby. I was afraid that if I tried to flee the area, the soldiers would arrest me. I was caught in a difficult dilemma. I was forced to stay there until morning and I managed to escape. There are concerns that the number of sexual assaults in the city could be higher. Souter's chief prosecutor says many victims have not filed a report either out of fear or because of their current status in Souter. Hello. Hello. Thank you for your time. Dr. Susana Azkaso has treated several victims. The youngest, she says, was just 10 years old. It's surprising for us. We are not used to that, kids. Beyond the emergency room, Dr. Azkaso is concerned, like many others in Souter, about how the small Spanish enclave will cope with those migrants who remain.

23:56They are sleeping at the mountains and the beach and doing everything they want without any law under any law, so I think they have to take care of them and get it to the border again to Morocco. Others, Clotsaba, have stepped into hell. She's opened her home to feed migrants. We met her as she prepared food. We want to help, but the conditions are dire. You see girls going through rape, sleeping in the forest. Any one of them could be my daughter, my granddaughter, or a member of my own family. It's thought that there could be more than 5,000 migrants still in Souter. Around 1,500 of them are unaccompanied minors. Many are being housed in shelters, but some are still sleeping outside. In recent days, there has been growing tensions between migrants and locals, and the government is under growing pressure to resolve the crisis.

24:57But for now, the migrants left in the city are waiting to find out what happens next. And that was Shurihin now across reporting there from the Spanish enclave of Souter. You're listening to News Hour from the BBC World Service. Well, Donald Trump has called it the biggest oil deal in world history. Earlier this week, the US Energy Secretary was in Caracas to formalise an oil agreement with Venezuela under which the US will hold a 100-year concession for a majority control of some 65 million barrels of crude. That's more than a fifth of the country's proven oil reserves. Venezuela, whose previous president, Nicholas Maduro, was forcibly removed from power by US

26:00tube troops in January, has also signed several oil accords with international energy firms, including Chevron, to reconstruct the country's collapsing electrical grid and hydroelectric plans. However, the decision to give the US so much control of Venezuela's reserves has met with opposition from both ends of the political spectrum. Latin America correspondent Will Grant reports. In the presidential palace in Caracas, mid-Afflores, the US Energy Secretary Chris Wright sat alongside the Inter-Inventus Well in President Delciro de Ruyges in a show of unity to formalise an agreement both sides build as historic. Certainly the numbers involved are huge. President Trump's mission in Venezuela is straightforward. The mission is to bring peace. In the trip, Mr Wright claimed that oil production in the Stric and South American nation will

27:02double within a decade. For her part, the Venezuelan leader claims the US deal will generate $100 billion in investment and more than $200 billion in tax revenue. I know it is President Trump's aim to have win-win agreements, she said. It's a far cry from the rhetoric previously heard in mid-Afflores. It under her political mentor, the late socialist leader, U.W. Chavez, and then his successor, Nictus Maduro. In the streets of the Venezuelan capital, though, people remain unconvinced. Most say they're in the dark as to the contents of the deal. It's crazy. It's not a good option for Venezuela because I don't know. We don't know about the contract or the agreement. We as Venezuelans deserve more transparency and accountability, whether the details, whether the conditions, and whether it's going to be the benefits for Venezuelans.

28:05Earlier table was President Trump's special representative on Venezuela and Iran in his first term. I spoke to him on the phone at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, where he is now a senior fellow. I think this is a terrible deal. He is simply compliant with the man she gets from Washington. They are talking about $100 million in investment in the next few years, and that might be extremely important. Jose Toto Hardy is a Venezuelan economist. He says the collapsing and decrepit state of the Venezuelan oil industry means that a plan to generate tens of billions of dollars in investment was always going to be necessary. So the Venezuelan government doesn't have the means that there is no way the government might make those investments. So if we want to recover the Venezuelan economy, in order to do it, we need the oil industry we have to make those investments. Elliott Abrams agrees that a steady supply of crude in the Western Hemisphere would benefit

29:05not just the US, but the global economy, especially with the continuing US war in Iran complicating the energy supply from the Gulf. But this particular accord he argues is deeply flawed. The idea of a partnership is good luck, but not a partnership with a dictatorship, and not under these terms, which are a kind of fever dream of what colonialism looks like. As the ink dries on this remarkable energy deal, it's easy to forget that earlier this year the Trump administration launched airstrikes on Caracas. Then President Nicholas Maduro and his wife were forced from power at gunpoint by elite Delta Force troops, who swooped into his compound and took them to the US to face drug trafficking charges. The turnaround in relations has been nothing short of extraordinary, but the Venezuelan opposition are profoundly worried about the newfound friendship, with a leader they say

30:06is a mere extension of the same regime that Trump painted as a drug cartel. In the meantime, the United Socialist Party of Venezuela is contorting itself into some interesting knots, trying to explain granting a concession for more than 20% of the country's oil wealth to the Yankee imperialists, as all chavis used to call them. They'll see Rodríguez's brother Jorge is the head of the Chavista-led National Assembly, and claimed it was always Mr. Chavis' intention to reach such a point with the Americans. I lived in Venezuela under Chavis, and heard endless speeches railing against America, including this one in which he threw out the US ambassador in 2008 in characteristically colourful language. Despite the revisionist history, the socialist and populist-world Chavis wanted Venezuela to move away from the US dominance of the country's oil sector.

31:07The deal, one of his most dedicated disciples, has just signed signals a new yet deeply familiar era in which Washington controls a significant portion of the largest oil reserves in the world. And that was our correspondent, Will Grant, reporting there, and as we've just been hearing from Will, the deal signed between the US and the interim Venezuelan government, gives Washington effective control of about a fifth of the country's vast oil reserves. President Trump has had his eye on Venezuelan oil for some time. Here he is speaking in December of 2025, two weeks before the Venezuela was raided, and President Nicolas Maduro was taken. You remember they took all of our energy rights, they took all of our oil from that that longer goal, and we wanted back, but they took it. They illegally took it. Now little is known about the detail of the agreement.

32:08However, we've had the opportunity to put some of the questions raised by our coverage to the US government. When NewsHours James Menendez spoke to the US State Department spokesman Tommy Piggert on Thursday, he began with this question, aren't the rights to Venezuela's oil being given away for free? No, so what we're talking about here is two deals, and that's what's important here. We're talking about, on one part, these concessions that are given from the interim authorities to North American blue energy partners. So that's one part, and we're talking about tax royalties and other parts from that part of the deal. The part I'm talking about of no cost for American taxpayer is the equity stake in that company. So there are two different things, and what this actually will facilitate and allow is that increased production. This is a game-changing deal. From a model where we had revenue going to Maduro and his cronies, fields operated by Iran, Russia, and China, now operated by private companies with a revenue going to Venezuela and people and lower gas prices for the American people.

33:10If it's a game-changing deal, as you're saying, and you're so proud of it, why not make the details public? Why has it been such an opaque process? Well, you can go to whitehouse.gov and see if actually detailing all the details of this deal right now. This has been a very transparent process in terms of the details of what we're seeing, and I want to make sure your listeners are rest assured that this will be governed by the highest levels of US governance, including auditing, including Americans on this board, including jurisdiction and US courts. That's part of the deal as well. Which department is making this investment in that company in North American blue energy partners? The United States will be held by the Department of War, but I do want to say that is separate from the concessions, and I think that's part of the confusion here, the fact that there are two separate actions that are happening here. The concessions giving from the Venezuelan government and the equity stake that is being done, are going to be held by the Department of War. Why is the Pentagon involved? That's part of the legal authorities we have here in terms of allowing that equity stake to happen. So that's again, making sure that this is done with the highest levels of US regulation of auditing based off of statutory authorities that currently exist.

34:12From we spoke to the former US special representative to Venezuela who served under President Trump in his first term, he said it was inappropriate that the Pentagon was involved and would probably be challenged in the courts. Well, I'm certainly not going to get ahead of any sort of judicial process, but what I can say is that this is based off of existing statutory and regulatory authorities, which is why the Department of War is involved. The company that attained these licenses, I mean, was there an open bidding process for that? And we're talking about a proven operator. And I think that actually is an important point and gets to an important point on this and the fact that we're going to see impact from this over the short term as well. We're talking about an operator that operates in Venezuela currently, which means this is scalable. This is something that you can scale rapidly. So we will see the first off take rights from this deal over the next several months. Not going to put too much of a time limit on it while this continues to develop. But sorry to interrupt you. Was it an open process? Because if not, many people will say that looks a lot like crony capitalism. I mean, what we're talking about is a proven operator that was looking for partners and

35:12has chosen to partner with the United States. This is a private company that was looking for partners in the United States as a partner it chose to partner with. So that's what happened here. That's what we're looking at. So in fact, what we're talking about is a great benefit for the American people. And we're continuing to see a variety of different oil companies announcing, expanding of operations in Venezuela, which I think reinforces how much of a game changing deal this is. The fact that new model has been established to allow for private development of these fields and better production. What evidence is there that the company led by this businessman, very wealthy businessman Alejandro Betancourt, is a proven operator. Many Venezuelans were point to the fact that he was given contracts to build new power plants in Venezuela and that ever since Venezuela has still been plagued by blackouts. Where is the proof that he can get this job done? Well, North American blue energy partners is currently operating in terms of producing oil and Venezuela. That's where you get the proven operator, which means this is scalable. I do want to stress again, the importance of the highest levels of US governance auditing

36:13making sure this deal will be implemented the way that it should be. Currently, the company produces something around 250,000 barrels of oil a day out of Venezuela. A former senior executive at the Venezuelan oil company said that the firm North American blue energy partners doesn't have the capability, doesn't have the technical know-how to get some of these oil fields which require a huge amount of investment, a huge amount of work to get going. So who is going to do that hard work? Well, another part of the benefit of this deal is we expect about $100 billion to be invested in the Venezuelan economy as part of this. We are going to see increased investment. We also have seen other companies announce their own investment into Venezuelan oil fields. So we are seeing that investment already happening. Isn't the Trump administration essentially doing business with the Maduro regime, but without Maduro at the top? I mean, nothing has really changed apart from the fact that it's been decapitated. Nothing has changed. That's a ridiculous thing to say. Is it? I think of where we are to see it is. It is entirely an about to explain to you why.

37:14Think of where we were nine months ago. Oil fields operated by Maduro and his cronies. Now we have oil fields announced investment of private enterprise developing this, a new deal. We have talks ongoing between the national assembly from 2015 and the interim authorities. We're seeing the release of political prisoners. Of course, there is much work to do. Why not hold those elections first and then go through this process? Once a government with genuine democratic legitimacy is in place. And wouldn't that also encourage investors who would be able to say, look, we have confidence in this government. We have confidence in its durability. And therefore, we have the confidence to start putting our money into the country. Well, two things on this first is we want to make sure that Venezuela and the government that will be coming into Venezuela has revenues in place where they can be. They can have that reconstruction happening. The second point quickly is that our goal is not just one election, it's enduring elections, it's an enduring republic. In order to have an election, you need election infrastructure you can trust. You need opposition leaders that are able to organize. You need a free press.

38:15You need all of those things operating in order to have a successful election. And we're working on all of those. That was Tommy Piggert. You're listening to NewsHour with Miguel Adonio from the BBC World Service live from London. Now, the United Nations is set to vote on a proposal that could change the way much of the world is mapped. An African-led resolution is calling for the replacement of the centuries-old Mercator projection, arguing that it distorts the size of countries around the world and continents in particular, particularly in the global south. Supporters say Africa, which often appears far smaller than it really is, has been misrepresented for generations and are backing alternatives such as the equal earth projection. Well, today's vote is non-binding. It's been a long-standing irritant for some parts of the world. Well, earlier I spoke to Johanna Wangehla. She's a geospatial academic from Dead Uncusharly University in Kenya.

39:18I asked her about the origins of the current Mercator system and how it came about. The Mercator is one of the Merc projections that we usually use as scatographers and it was created about 400 years back. And it was basically created for navigation because it preserves ships and angles, especially for small areas. And so the issue here is that the world is round and these maps need to be flat and therefore that's when you get the problems created in terms of representation of size versus what you see on the map themselves. Yes, when you want to represent the earth, we have to represent it in a model. So, A-Map is basically an obstruction of reality, which represents the 3D version of the earth into the two-dimensional. So you cannot just basically transform from a three-dimensional to a two-dimensional

40:19without distorting something. As scatographers, they usually use three projections. The first one is the equal area. So this one usually preserves the area. While you are preserving the area, you're still distorting something and in this case, you distort the ship and the angles. So if you come to Marketer, which now preserves the ship, we appreciate the earth, the weight is the continents, the way they are shipped. Now you'll find that areas around the equator have smaller sizes compared to areas of the poles. That is controversial, isn't it? And there are a number of African countries in particular have said that they want a kind of realignment, a re-examination of how we map the world to indicate size in particular. Yes, that is the main challenge. But now, when you're talking about representation of the earth, of course, you will see that the African countries are more angled towards the schools. So the schools is more of perception.

41:19So as kids are growing up, do they see the equality of the size of Africa compared to either the southern or the northern hemisphere in this case? And of course, they are talking about political, about a location of resources. Do you think that the way things are mapped can influence the way people think about where the resources are directed and the relative importance of different parts of the world? No, I actually don't think that is true, especially because now the current generation is well educated and of course they understand about the size and everything. So in my opinion, it depends with what you want to use them up for. I have no worries or I have no contestation as to why we should represent the earth using the marketer projection because they all come with their own advantages and their own disadvantages. That was Joanna Wanzhala there speaking about the Mercator map. Now, Argentina's president, Javier Millay, has threatened to sanction against oil companies

42:24operating in the Falkland Islands, the British territory in the South Atlantic, that Argentina calls Las Malvinas and continues to claim as its own. The president also said the islands are needed to be recovered, reiterating or regenerating, reigniting even a perennial friction between the UK and Argentina. Both countries fought a war over the islands in 1982 after Argentina invaded. Britain's foreign secretary, Ed Miliband, said in a social media post that the islands were British and would remain so because that was the overwhelming position of the islanders themselves. Donald Trump warned on Thursday that the US might not be there to assist Britain in any potential future conflict over the islands. Well, Veronica Smink is a Buenos Aires-based journalist who works for the Buenos Aires Herald. I asked her exactly why President Millay was threatening this now.

43:25Well, first he's threatening the two companies that are starting this project, the Cilai and Project of the Coast of the Islands, Rockhopper Exploration and Navitas from Israel. He said he's going to toughen sanctions on these companies. They already have sanctions. But he's also saying basically he's framing this in the context of national security. He said that he's also going to sanction those who provide materials and services to these companies. He basically said that any advancement in Malvinas, as they're called here, will be considered a violation of national security. So he's talking about also sending a bill to Congress to strengthen national sovereignty and creating a national security council, installing a naval base. He's saying this is a truth-right or a gentina. Why has he chosen this moment, do you think? Is it simply because Cilai is getting closer to development or does he detect a shift

44:25in the geopolitics around the islands? He said in his speech last night, on the one hand, he said these companies are months away from extracting oil from Argentine, what he considers Argentine territory. But on the other hand, he also mentioned President Trump's recent comments talking about a possible change of tide. No longer outright supporting its historical ally, the UK on this issue. He said that this is a very, very important change. But here in Argentina, analysts are also saying that it's not a coincidence that Mille is heading into next year a vital election where he's going to fight for reelection and so much depends on it. And it's also perhaps not a coincidence that very recently at the World Cup in the famous quarterfinal match against England, the Argentine players showed that banner that said the Malvinas are Argentine. And this revives the whole issue of Malvinas. He's very aware that this is one of the very few issues that unites most Argentines.

45:28And it still has the power to do that, does it? I think what happened after that match clearly proved, and reactions in Argentina clearly, clearly proved that this is a matter that matters to so many Argentines. And even Mille, I think, took note of that until then most of his speeches, he didn't seem to highlight the issue of Malvinas. And after that, there seemed to be a change even within the government. And that was Veronica Smink, freelance journalist, and for the Buenos Aires Herald, speaking to me a little earlier. You're listening to BBC World Service, News Out Live from London.