**NOW** Killer Mom Trial: Judge Tells Defense “I’m Not An Actor” Before Deliberations

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. Abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced.

1:00These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're a bookshelf and you're a for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and pop culture. With your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed, so I'm obsessed. Listen to pro society on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. Developers with right wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is our town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social

2:03experiment and fights back. I guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to our town on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast. Here's what you missed. There should not be a single law enforcement agency that does not have body cameras. It's real. Black farmers have been under attack. This is just the latest example of them just slapping DEI on anything. It's raw. And I'm sitting here going, they are playing y'all for foals. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. And download Roland Martin unfiltered on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there folks, it is Friday, September 4th. And we are all for running. And the Lindsay, Plancy, Triple, Murder, Trial, the morning gets starts with some explosive

3:03back and forth, including from the judge who has to tell Kevin Reddington, I'm not an actor. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Roll of Fletskiv, everybody, this update, what we're expecting versus what we just got. Yes, so we heard from Kevin Reddington, Lindsay Clancy's attorney yesterday saying that he wanted an inquiry and that there was going to be an inquiry. They would be one. Yes, into this identified juror who has been singled out as the hold out juror because he believes that this juror has not been following the law, that he has not been following the instructions of the judge. And we say he because we heard Kevin Reddington say he. And so there was a debate before the jurors were brought in with the prosecution and the defense asking the judge to formally question this juror in the middle of the courtroom in front of everybody. And the prosecution didn't want it to happen.

4:04The defense did. And there was some blowback between the judge and Kevin Reddington. And so they had this out in court. Everybody made their argument. Broke's if you have it in front of you, cool, but I have the I did the note they sent was essentially them saying that one juror has made statements acknowledging doubt but refuses to apply it to the verdict as the law states. Essentially suggesting this person is not following the judges instructions or following the law. Reddington is taking that robes to mean this person is not doing what you're saying they should do. They came in here yesterday and took an oath when you asked them all he flat out accused this person of lying to the court under on the road. Yes, he said yes, he said this juror blatantly lied to your face judge because if he said yes, I can follow instructions. He's lying to you because the four person was brave enough to send this note saying that this juror acknowledged doubt but refused to apply that to his verdict.

5:06Okay, so argument from the prosecution, we've had issue with the prosecution before. This made a lot of sense to me. Did it not? They cited another case and they were it made clear. This has to be a case where a juror has given an indication of a bias of some kind of influence or can't stay because of some personal reason. This said the note indicates a disagreement about how to weigh evidence. That's a deliberation. Rosemallow, she said that. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's that's true. You're following the law but maybe you are having a difference of opinion about how to weigh it. That is a deliberation. She was shortened sweetens to the point and she made I thought she made good points and then your boy Reddington got up and went off. Yes. Yes, the judge basically said that he believed that exactly what the prosecution said that this was not an issue of impartiality or bias or something illegal. This instead was something that had to do with just a disagreement.

6:10But before he got up there, Reddington was able to make his argument and this is where Rose, he was he was laying in to this juror and he did use he. I don't know if that was just a slip or accident if he meant to do that. Rose, he said clearly this is a person. This dude thinks he's won this case if he can just get this one juror to act right. He sounds as confident as anything. Reddington is fighting as hard as we've seen him in this case. Yes. And he accused the judge of softly suggesting basically that the jurors apply the law. He said he glossed over the main points and that certainly set off the judge who said I'm not an actor as you pointed out at the beginning and he said what do you want me to do bring in a brass band. That's how contentious it got. It got sarcastic and voices were raised and things got a little heated. And he kept pleading with the judge to bring this person in and even use the word I know

7:11this could be awkward. This could be awkward to have to do. But he is flat out saying that this person is doing something wrong is violating law and it's now even purged. He is heaping everything on this one person and making them I don't know how this does and works for appeals, robes. But he is now putting the court in the position to go on the record and say there's evidence his person is lied and they're not applying the law and they violated an oath and you're letting them stay here and judge my client. And it just happens to be the person that's keeping my client from getting a proper verdict. Robes and it wasn't a mistake he used the word brave talking about the four person. Oh, absolutely. I think that was for the cameras. Oh, 100%. We've known from the beginning that Kevin Reddington, we've watched him. He is a performer. He knows exactly what he's doing. He chooses his words carefully. He chooses his moments very strategically so that he imparts a feeling to everyone watching.

8:14He knows he has an audience of, I don't even know, but thousands around the country who are watching this not just in this courtroom. He is talking to everyone who is watching this courtroom closely. He's made it that made it almost a moral and emotional issue. We have a champion in there for Lindsey Clancy. They were brave enough. I do. I think that was more than for the courts appetite. I think that was, he said that to everybody else. Robes, the judge was pretty quick. I think we were prepared this morning, say, wow, how long is this going to take? This took 20, 25 minutes. The judge did not seem Robes really to entertain much of the argument for bringing this jury. No, he was, I mean, he has been consistent and he has made it very clear. He made it clear yesterday when Kevin Reddington brought this up that he was not going to single out this juror, that he was not going to bring this juror back into the courtroom.

9:19So it's interesting, Kevin Reddington, it seemed yesterday was very confident that it was going to happen in the judge pretty quickly shut it down and said that he would not further question this juror. And he made it very clear that he does not believe that this juror has refused to follow the law. Yeah, reading the note carefully and strictly, the note does not indicate that this is a person who has refused to follow the law. They're now trying to make sense of every little word in the note. But Rob, does this make sense to you? I mean, it kind of just does. And again, you've been giving me a hard time because I've been taken up for this juror whoever this person is. But you have the right to have your own opinion and you have your right to see the evidence differently and you have your right to even interpret reasonable doubt differently. And if there are 11 other people who are on the same team. Yeah. And it was interesting because the prosecution also asked something of the judge. She asked the judge to please let the four person know to please not include the count,

10:24basically where they are in deliberations that that isn't something that we should be getting information about and to please remind her not to include that in future notes. And it was interesting to see Kevin Reddington buy back and say, well, we don't because basically he knows he knows this four person is on the side of not guilty or at least I think it's fair to assume that. So he didn't want to make her feel like she had done anything wrong. So he was asking the judge, please, please, please don't scold her in the sense that you would tell her not to do that again to imply that she did something wrong. Please don't do that because he doesn't want to upset or instill any fear in this woman who he believes is on his side. Right. We heard clearly what he said. Be nice to my girl. Exactly. Yes, a K a please, please, we want to keep her on our side is there no. Realm of possibility of someone anywhere discussing robes that it's 11 one the other way. No, there's not 11 from manslaughter.

11:27That's the compromise, right? Look, I all I can tell you is every single reaction from the defense and the prosecution implies that it's 11 to one not guilty. Okay, but manslaughter would count because it means you're automatically going to press. Maybe the one is okay with the manslaughter and maybe the 11 don't want manslaughter. Maybe they only want not guilty by reason of insanity and maybe he's okay with manslaughter and they're not. We don't know what he's digging his heels in for. What does he want? What is his verdict? We don't know if it's first degree, second degree or manslaughter. But I guess it's weird that we all automatically all go to not guilty by reason of insanity. Why can't there be 11 people in there saying manslaughter? We agree on manslaughter. That seems like an easier thing to get 11 people to agree to in this case. I can't answer why everyone thinks it's not guilty, but Kevin Reddington, a hundred percent believes it's not guilty. That's where the 11 are. But no, no, 11 from manslaughter, that's good for him as well. Is it not? Yes, I mean, it's certainly better than first or second degree.

12:27Yes, and it's better than that. But manslaughter means she could he could send in to her to just a state prison. Yes. Oh, my goodness, crazy. But stay here, folks. We'll a reminder of the official count where we are right now in the hours and what just happened. Again, we are watching all this stuff live and bringing it to you, but we will tell you what just happened with the jury. What the judge has now told them to do for today. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and health captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the survivor files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

13:33They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. Their story is about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Pro's Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. So obsessed. I'm bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments. Nothing is off the table. So like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is

14:34a Trojan horse, whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro's Society on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's see you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us, not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version

15:39of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our town is small taters by most standards, right? But to the people who grew up here, it's everything. What happens when a quiet Tennessee town becomes the front line in a battle over the future of America? Developers with right wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land in the area. The first thing you see when it pops up is high nears and apple at you. But they weren't just planning houses. We need cities on a shining hill that exemplify and embody the Christian way of life. Stop right there, is that normal? A podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment. God need natural and decides to fight back. Do not use my hard work to sell your bulls. We're not just opposing what's being planned for here.

16:42Our hometown is not a test too. They feel like they're standing in opposition to an entire administration. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to our town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Didn't catch the latest roll in the Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complained about the very thing they were seeing. It's wrong. I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Rollin' to Martin unfiltered. I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all gonna scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same bag. Catch Rollin' to Martin's daily commentary on the black information network.

17:4312 seats. Those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 23, you better be hitting the ground going hard in the south now. And download Rollin' to Martin unfiltered on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. So yes, there was a lot of back and forth about what the judge should tell these jurors before they returned to the deliberation room. Without that aforementioned identified juror being questioned, he is now going back with the 11 others. The all 12 of them are officially deliberating once again, but the judge said to the jurors as they headed back to follow the law as I give it to you, whether you agree with it or not. And that was something Kevin Reddington wanted him to put in there to be a little bit more forceful in how he put it, saying, you know, you might not like the law, you might

18:47not want to apply it because you have your own personal opinions, but you have to follow it no matter what, you know, whether or not you agree with it. That was a little bit stronger language than he used yesterday. Stronger language, it's just that was a, it didn't really get heated, but this was probably some of the most personality we've seen from Judge Sullivan, right? I thought it was hilarious. When he said, what do you want me to do, bring in a brass band? Hey, Rob, it was hilarious. It was, that was so colloquial in him and, yes, this was one of the times where you do sit back and go, well, Reddington, what do you want him to do? Because the law says you have to instruct them with these words, doesn't say you have to whisper them or shout them or say them forcefully. You're just supposed to read it and that's supposed to be it for whatever reason. And the judge put this on the record, the idea of glossing over, he made sure it was on the record, just that is not a correct characterization of what I did.

19:47I did gloss anything over. I read it directly from the statue. You know, and he defended himself, Robes, he said, I have thought about this and thought about it. I think he might even made a mention to outside the courtroom in the time he spends. Yeah, he didn't take too kindly to that, but what does Reddington want to do? Yelette the judge. Well, it's funny because you know what it says to me, that Reddington and Judge Sullivan are close. Ain't no way an attorney feels that comfortable speaking that way to a judge unless they go way back. So you do see that there must be some level, some foundation of respect or friendship at least or familiarity. I was going to say enough past experiences together that they know each other's personalities and yet it might get a little heated, but they're going to be able to go out for a beer later. Like that's how I took it and it did speak to the level of comfort. You don't speak to people like that unless you have a level of comfort. I liked the, because the judge I never found him that he actually got upset, but he was

20:51animated and he was funny on this one. I'm not an actor. You changed my inflection. What do you want me to do? He was, it was how he did. So that was an interesting moment, but they're back in there. I'm sorry. How many times? 30 minutes. 30. We'll look right behind. We've got court TV has a wonderful as we're recording this. The jurors have officially been deliberating for 36 hours, 33 minutes and 30 seconds. As I said it, it's changing. But to think that after all the jurors basically told on the wonder, the juror knows that he's being spoken directly to as the judge reissues these instructions. I just wonder what it's like now given all of that. Is the tension increased? Has it been released a little because now everyone knows what's going on and how in the heck are they going to try and figure this out? And how long is it going to take? So today, yeah. Are they going to try and see if they can come to an agreement? This is up on screen now.

21:52We didn't plan. We had a fun debate earlier. We didn't plan on having. There's one hold out juror, they say. One is not going along with the 11 and you and I were going back and forth. Do you think it's a man or do you think it's a woman? Now I'm not sure where we ended up. We both landed on what? I absolutely thought it was a man. A man. So it was an interesting back and forth and sure enough, breadings and just said. And I don't know if it was just a slip or he was being accurate, but he let us know the sex of the one hold out. Yes, he said he and I looked at you and I was like, head nod. Yeah, it was a he because no, we went back and forth on it. It didn't make sense to me. Women, yes, I know we get a bad rap for turning our backs on one another and coming down hard on each other, but we oftentimes will coalesce in a way because we understand. We have each other's backs in that way. And so it was harder me to imagine that one woman would go against eight and just stand firm against three men. Like that just doesn't seem like something a woman would do.

22:53Maybe an older woman, maybe a woman who feels very strong in her convictions, but it seemed much more likely that a man would be willing to do that. So we started clowning and talking this thing through and who is more likely to look at nine women and say, nope, y'all are wrong. A man. Who is going to say, ain't no way I'm going to go along with what you women want me to do. Oh, man. Yeah. Once we started talking, get through. All right. So now the waiting continues, but now it's even more interesting because it's just now that we have a little bit more idea of what is going on or at least what the numbers are. This could be anyone's guess and in terms of timing, we just know that it's Friday and it's a Labor Day weekend and they have every incentive to figure this out. So we will stay watching that courtroom for you. We always appreciate you listening to us. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes. We will talk very, very soon. I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people

24:04survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the survivor files. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering the ride on his motorcycle. I choose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

25:05If you're bookshelf and you're for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and pop culture. With your favorite writers, book talk creators and plenty of over thought opinions. Listen to Pro Society on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Our hometown is not a test tube. 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town. Developers with right wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land. We need cities on a shining hill. This is our town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. I guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now did you? Listen to our town on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your

26:06podcasts. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. People wake up and go, oh, damn, wait and hold up. They change all of that? Yes. It's real. This is a wholesale attack. It is targeting black people in every federal agency. It's wrong. White folks have never allowed that reckoning to last more than a decade. That's Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. And down the world, Roland Martin unfiltered on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.